Should I have tipped in this situation?

November 4, 2022 8:06 AM

I just ordered a large quantity of pastries from a local bakery-cafe, for a party tomorrow. They use Toast for checkout, so when I paid I was asked if I wanted to add a tip. I wasn't prepared for that, the tip amounts offered were very large, so I tapped "no". Should I have tipped?

The total bill was about $180. The lowest tip offered was $18 (10%). Yes, I could have put in a smaller amount, but my mind wasn't working that quickly and there was a line of people behind me. The owner was the one operating the register, and he didn't bat an eye when I just paid the product cost. So I think it's correct, in this situation, that I didn't tip. But should I have? Was I rude not to?

posted by Winnie the Proust to Food & Drink (36 answers total)

I would reflexively have gone for the 20% tip here, possibly more if you were placing a giant order and they were already busy.
posted by implied_otter at 8:15 AM on November 4, 2022 [11 favorites]

See if you can get back and do it for them. I am haunted by a time almost twenty years ago when I didn't tip for a delivery for a function. I should have done it from my own pocket.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:18 AM on November 4, 2022 [4 favorites]

Yes, you should have tipped at least the 18% on a large to go order (I would have done 20%) because the workers are probably being paid less with the expectation of tips. That said, I totally relate to getting flustered by a new process, etc. In that case, I might have done what you did, but then I would have offered a cash tip when I picked up the box of food.
posted by agatha_magatha at 8:19 AM on November 4, 2022 [8 favorites]

I would tip. Although this looks like a Customer-Buying-Goods situation, there was much personal service involved.
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:21 AM on November 4, 2022 [2 favorites]

Yes, for an order of that size, I would tip 20%, or more if they went above and beyond in some way or it was a particularly busy time of year, etc. I also get surprised and flustered by surprise interfaces so judgment there, but if you can go back and tip them now, I would.
posted by Stacey at 8:31 AM on November 4, 2022 [4 favorites]

Before the pandemic, I didn't tip at all for takeout orders. I now usually tip 10%, except in some special circumstances where I might tip higher. I do resent it when the payment terminal suggests a default tipping amount that is quite large. See also this recent article about the changes in tipping culture.
posted by JD Sockinger at 8:32 AM on November 4, 2022 [4 favorites]

Some places have a lower minimum wage for workers that typically expect tips, but Brookline, MA doesn't appear to be one of those places. I could be misreading, but based on this document, it seem that all Brookline workers should get $14.90/hr.

That said, it depends what you mean by "should". In general tipping is a bad practice that tends to harm employees and benefit employers, so I'm happy to see it starting to be phased out. That said, unless I'm at a place where that is happening (many local restaurants have a notice about a fixed service charge that is added to every bill and some go as far as to refuse to accept tips) I typically do tip at restaurants and the like, but this seems like a gray area: the larger the order the less "service"-type overhead there is, which is theoretically what tipping is about.

Overall, it's currently a lousy situation for both wage earner and consumer, but I don't think your specific one is depriving folks of income they're depending on. If you want to see tipping go away as much as I do, maybe make a donation or write a letter to your appropriate representative. In the long run, that will be more beneficial for all local workers.
posted by Cogito at 8:34 AM on November 4, 2022 [11 favorites]

I think you were fine not tipping, although I probably would have, at least a little bit. To me (in the US) tipping is absolutely mandatory for table service where the servers are being paid a "tipped wage" but not for counter service or takeout in general. With a large order I feel like it's even more optional - the work that the counter staff does to fill a $180 order is not 10x the work it would take to fill 10 $18 orders (it might be the same amount of work for the kitchen, but the kitchen usually doesn't get the tips).

To me this seems kind of like when I buy a bottle of liquor at my local distillery or a case of beer at my local brewery - they use the same checkout system for all purchases but I don't tip 20% on a $35 bottle of gin that someone grabbed off a shelf for me.
posted by mskyle at 8:36 AM on November 4, 2022 [11 favorites]

No tip is fine here, unless it’s more of a cafe than a bakery and they aren’t used to orders larger than a few items. It sounds like this was a normal kind of order for them.
posted by michaelh at 8:39 AM on November 4, 2022 [2 favorites]

I would not have tipped in that situation, unless they are delivering the order tomorrow. But I almost never tip for counter service and would be even less inclined to tip when the order is a bulk one. Handing me a box is not a tippable service.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:41 AM on November 4, 2022 [13 favorites]

I think the answer to questions like these are usually "yes you *should* tip", because tipping is good and nice and kind and the right thing to do however I assume about 97% of people do not tip in these instances so it's not like you specifically stood out as some kind of cheap/rude/thoughtless jerk here if that's the concern.
posted by windbox at 8:42 AM on November 4, 2022 [1 favorite]

The margin on bakery goods is huge. It would sorta depend on the bakery, a lot of the costs are fixed as in the oven is on from before opening until the last batch, doesn't really depend on how many things you bake.
posted by zengargoyle at 8:46 AM on November 4, 2022

I agree that most people would not think to tip in this situation but I think that when people order large amounts of food for parties instead of hiring catering, they should consider tipping. I doubt bakery/cafe workers are considered "tipped employees" such that they can be paid lower than minimum wage but they are still likely underpaid and doing large orders outside of catering systems typically makes their job harder. It is the same reason that restaurants add a mandatory gratuity for 8+. Even catering typically has a mandatory gratuity. It is harder to deal with an order for many people at the same time as dealing with the daily customers.
posted by muddgirl at 8:49 AM on November 4, 2022 [3 favorites]

It sounds like you bought $180 of baked goods from a bakery, which is not normally a tipping situation. I don't see how the fact that the bakery is also a cafe would change the situation, unless that changes what the employees are paid or somehow requires service beyond the normal process of buying baked goods in a bakery. Presumably the tipping option is there for people who are getting a coffee and a pastry and not for people who are just conducting a normal bakery transaction.
posted by ssg at 9:09 AM on November 4, 2022 [18 favorites]

Custom order - potential for tip.
Large order of premade goods - business as usual, no tip required.

The argument of "tipping justifies lower wages, therefore you should tip" is valid, for a business I would never want to support.
posted by Meagan at 9:18 AM on November 4, 2022 [2 favorites]

You tip for catering, you should have tipped here. Go run back and give them a $20 bill when you get a chance (and maybe a nice card at this point?) and a thanks for their efficiency, work and how the delicious goods helped your event go off without a hitch.
posted by Toddles at 9:21 AM on November 4, 2022 [1 favorite]

If you're ordering out of a retail storefront, the retail workers pulling your order together are likely relying on tips to get a fair wage. If you're getting it delivered, the delivery person is likely relying on tips to get a fair wage. In either case, I would definitely tip at least 20%. As a delivery driver I worked with used to say, "If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to order." If you're able to tip $20 in cash at delivery or when you pick up the order, I'd definitely recommend doing so.
posted by ourobouros at 9:22 AM on November 4, 2022 [1 favorite]

I have worked in tipped positions. My philosophy is that tips are awful, and they should go away. But as long as I live in this world, if I can afford something and it has a tip option, then I can afford the tip even if it doesn't feel like it. Otherwise I shouldn't be buying the thing.
posted by aniola at 9:22 AM on November 4, 2022 [16 favorites]

I always tip when given the option, because I assume if there's an option to tip, workers involved may be getting paid a wage that expects it. Federal minimum wage for tipped workers is $2.13 an hour. If I'm wrong, at least I'm erring on the side of being kind.
posted by okayokayigive at 9:25 AM on November 4, 2022 [3 favorites]

Just to throw an additional wrench into the moral calculus*, consider that whether we tip or not is mostly a matter of societal convention, not any consistent consideration of what workers deserve. Do we tip our EMTs? Public school teachers? Sanitation workers? Go down the rabbit hole of who deserves tipping, and you'll find there's no end. If I'm being honest with myself, my tipping decisions are about the feelings that arise from the potential judgement of the person who sees me tip or not and the pervasive pressure to abide societal convention.

Based on that, maybe a good way to look at it is: what's your relationship to this particular business? Is it important to you to be seen as a person who tips? Or more simply: would you feel better if you tipped?

* Honestly, I say this to point out the complexity/absurdity of the situation and hopefully relieve you of some of the feeling of judgement inherent in any "what should I do"-type query.
posted by Cogito at 9:58 AM on November 4, 2022 [5 favorites]

Tipping is disgusting. You should only tip if the workers are getting a lower wage / tax hits due to expectation of tips. Whether the situation you described falls into this scenario depends on your jurisdiction.

Here are some articles that explain why tipping is horrible:
https://www.eater.com/a/case-against-tipping
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/18/i-dare-you-to-read-this-and-still-feel-ok-about-tipping-in-the-united-states/
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-tipping-1.6455837
https://www.vox.com/2014/7/17/5888347/one-more-case-against-tipping
posted by sid at 10:39 AM on November 4, 2022 [5 favorites]

You could go back to the bakery at the same time next week, find the person, thank them and hand them a cash tip, and then call over the manager and praise their great service / how good the food was. (Do the cash part separate from the manager part in case the manager is mean and steals their tip. If the system at the bakery is truly fair, the person will likely choose to split the tip fairly on their own accord if applicable)
posted by nouvelle-personne at 11:45 AM on November 4, 2022 [1 favorite]

If you are handing over money to someone who is behind a counter; no delivery is happening, and you are not sitting down and having food brought to you, it's very similar to buying something at a supermarket and I don't understand why you would be tipping?
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 12:19 PM on November 4, 2022 [18 favorites]

In this case I don’t understand the rationale behind tipping the same way you would’ve if you’d actually sat down at a table and been waited on by waitstaff.

I might tip maybe a few dollars to be nice, but my assumption would be that the people preparing this order would be paid normal hourly wages that aren’t in any way suppressed by the assumption that they’ll make most of their money from tips. These new POS systems are everywhere and they always ask for tips.
posted by wondermouse at 12:45 PM on November 4, 2022 [3 favorites]

But as long as I live in this world, if I can afford something and it has a tip option, then I can afford the tip even if it doesn't feel like it.

Yup.

my assumption would be that the people preparing this order would be paid normal hourly wages that aren’t in any way suppressed by the assumption that they’ll make most of their money from tips.

In the US I would not assume this no matter where the business is or how cool or progressive the business seems to be.
posted by soundguy99 at 12:55 PM on November 4, 2022 [7 favorites]

No tip is more than fine. Handing you pastries does not automatically justify a tip.

Tipping would be nice, sure, but unnecessary.
posted by so fucking future at 1:01 PM on November 4, 2022 [3 favorites]

It's frustrating to me when I'm kind of shamed for not tipping in a place just because the business now has an app for tipping that they didn't have last year. I expect always to tip 20% when I go to a restaurant, where the service is paid for by tip, and I tend to tip 10% when I get carry out at a restaurant because it is still a restaurant and so I know they rely on tips. But I am not expecting to tip when I go pick up food at a bakery that simply sells their stuff at a counter.
At places around here, 180 bucks is probably about 25 pastries, put into a box. I would not be able to simply throw another 33$ at that.
I notice a lot of this kind of tip shaming these days, with the reasoning that the people working at the bakery etc. make a low salary. But those of us buying those products also work minimum wage jobs, and just because I possibly saved or collected $180 for a bakery order doesn't mean I'm prepared to add another $33.00 (18%) to the order, which, based on my own experience working in a similar business, has been put together as part of the normal days work any more than I'd tip a retail clerk if I bought $200 worth of socks, hats and scarves.
posted by rainy day girl at 2:04 PM on November 4, 2022 [27 favorites]

I agree with those who say no tip is necessary in this situation. Plus, you were served by the owner. If he's not satisfied with how much he's making, he can raise his prices.
posted by jonathanhughes at 2:32 PM on November 4, 2022 [2 favorites]

Absolutely not.

I’m a generous tipper but only with transactions in which is it expected by decades of social convention. I’ve watched the slow march of counter service tipping and I decline to support it. I understand why workers put out a tip jar (they’re not getting paid enough) but when it’s built into the POS of the business, it really seems like that business is asking its customers to formally supplement wages. Fuck that.
posted by rhymedirective at 2:47 PM on November 4, 2022 [8 favorites]

I probably would have tipped $5-10 or so because I tend to tip, especially if it's a huge order-- but I wouldn't tip 18% or 20% on an order that big. It's a cafe being operated by the owner. I don't think a tip is obligatory. Their staff are going to be paid at least minimum wage, unlike waiting staff at a restaurant with table service.
posted by geegollygosh at 3:36 PM on November 4, 2022 [2 favorites]

I think what you did is fine, but I live in an area where tipped wage is not separate from minimum wage, and you ordered a day in advance and in theory they would plan to fulfill your large order and not have a sudden shortage because of it. It's not even clear that the tip money you paid would go to the employees affected by your order - it's possible that the entire amount would go to the person working the register, the owner.
posted by meowzilla at 4:47 PM on November 4, 2022

In San Francisco, I generally tip 15-20% nowadays, even at places I frequent as a tour guide (it's not my money but my boss's) as it's pretty much expected. I know I live on tips and if I don't get a tip I am not a very happy guy. :D
posted by kschang at 5:23 PM on November 4, 2022 [1 favorite]

I don't tip if I'm ordering something like one pastry at the counter. If I'm ordering something that requires a lot of boxing up, then the person doing the boxing up is being taken away from their normal job (which is often tipped) and so I do tip.

I agree that tipping culture is awful. Tipped employees are not the ones creating and perpetuating it, however, and punishing them for an awful culture is punishing the victim in ways that is not going to fix the system.
posted by lapis at 8:33 PM on November 4, 2022 [6 favorites]

I tip 10% at a buffet, 15-20% at a full sit-down restaurant, and 0% outside of that. (I don't order delivery, at all. Part of that is where I live but part of it is the fact that the entire industry is a dumpster fire and needs to die.)

I have seen tip lines at some bizarre places (small-town butcher shop???) and I chalk it up to them being miscategorized with their payment processor and so the terminal thinks it's a business where tips should be accepted. Perhaps I'm being too generous with that explanation and it's intentional on the part of the business. But, in any case, I am not tipping the guy who got stuff out of a case and weighed it any more than I'm tipping the guy at the bakery who put my donuts in a box.
posted by tubedogg at 1:38 AM on November 5, 2022 [1 favorite]

How is this different from buying fast food at a counter? Only difference is the POS software is giving the option to tip.
posted by artdrectr at 8:19 AM on November 5, 2022 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: Thank you, these are all interesting perspectives and reflect well the internal debate I had! Given the circumstances, I think I was fine not tipping. In the future, I'll probably do something like tip for the small portion I was having then (a cup of coffee and a donut) and not tip on the portion that was closer to a grocery store purchase.

Marking this resolved.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 7:44 AM on November 7, 2022