Group dynamics of being in a "band"
October 31, 2022 7:01 AM Subscribe
I am in a band with some other parents from my town. It is fun, and I think we sound pretty decent. While this is a very low-key undertaking, I'd love to hear from people who have played in more bands about how to get my head into my role and group as a whole so that I and my friends can get the most out of this.
This is just an after-dinner project, but I think the band dynamics are probably universal--our singer is excellent, but she likes only sad songs. I am a guitarist, but actual guitarist is much better than I am, so I'm playing bass (which I enjoy and may be a better fit, but is something I've only done on the side and so am currently a bit limited by my skillset). Meanwhile I'm better drummer than our drummer, and would love to do that, but he doesn't play anything else, and he's a key part of the group (and we play in his garage!). And all of us gravitate to different music!
Being in this band is a lot of fun, and not an outlet I have otherwise, so I want to make the most of it. But we all have different repertoires in mind, and I'd love to mix up the roles at some point (though I recognize we're each filling the most needed slots).
Clearly an exercise in compromise and sublimating my ego--but I'd love to hear from other musicians about their journeys with groups they've played with.
This is just an after-dinner project, but I think the band dynamics are probably universal--our singer is excellent, but she likes only sad songs. I am a guitarist, but actual guitarist is much better than I am, so I'm playing bass (which I enjoy and may be a better fit, but is something I've only done on the side and so am currently a bit limited by my skillset). Meanwhile I'm better drummer than our drummer, and would love to do that, but he doesn't play anything else, and he's a key part of the group (and we play in his garage!). And all of us gravitate to different music!
Being in this band is a lot of fun, and not an outlet I have otherwise, so I want to make the most of it. But we all have different repertoires in mind, and I'd love to mix up the roles at some point (though I recognize we're each filling the most needed slots).
Clearly an exercise in compromise and sublimating my ego--but I'd love to hear from other musicians about their journeys with groups they've played with.
I don't think The_Vegetables's initial point is a foregone conclusion at all. The question I would be asking is: what is the goal of this band? If it's primarily social, then maybe that order is correct. If it's primarily musical, that order is incorrect.
I don't think that it's likely that you'll ever be in a band where all of those things are perfectly evenly-weighted, although that would probably be the ideal scenario for most people. So, assuming the purpose is more social than musical, I would try to find ways to enjoy playing the bass, and look for opportunities where you can try things you would like to do. (Love metal, but your singer is folksy? Do a folksy cover of *insert your favorite heavy song here*. Not all songs need bass...two drummers can be AWESOME!! Or maybe two drummers, and the guitarist covers bass?)
So, in short, enjoy the people, and use your massively creative brain to come up with fun ways to shake things up sometimes. (Meaning, ways that everyone finds fun!)
posted by nosila at 7:42 AM on October 31, 2022
I don't think that it's likely that you'll ever be in a band where all of those things are perfectly evenly-weighted, although that would probably be the ideal scenario for most people. So, assuming the purpose is more social than musical, I would try to find ways to enjoy playing the bass, and look for opportunities where you can try things you would like to do. (Love metal, but your singer is folksy? Do a folksy cover of *insert your favorite heavy song here*. Not all songs need bass...two drummers can be AWESOME!! Or maybe two drummers, and the guitarist covers bass?)
So, in short, enjoy the people, and use your massively creative brain to come up with fun ways to shake things up sometimes. (Meaning, ways that everyone finds fun!)
posted by nosila at 7:42 AM on October 31, 2022
Oh yeah, and I agree totally w/ The_Vegetables on the last point: if you really don't like the way someone plays, that's not going to get better, and an early exit is better than a surprise frustrated exit after a year or two.
posted by nosila at 7:43 AM on October 31, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by nosila at 7:43 AM on October 31, 2022 [3 favorites]
Every band I've played in was for the music, but IMO it just doesn't work for very long. Playing the actual music is a really small part, and collaborating is a huge part - it's like going to job with a bunch of people you don't like, except instead of them paying you, you generally pay to be in a band. And if you don't like them, you'll nitpick every musical choice they make like it's a personal affront.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:54 AM on October 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:54 AM on October 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
If I'm reading you correctly, you're doing covers, not originals, and you don't really have "goals" besides maybe playing an occasional neighborhood party or small bar gig, yeah?
posted by soundguy99 at 7:58 AM on October 31, 2022
posted by soundguy99 at 7:58 AM on October 31, 2022
Asking because the dynamics can definitely be different if you're negotiating songwriting and incorporating different styles into arrangements of original songs and plan on recording and releasing material vs. a more chill hobby thing.
posted by soundguy99 at 9:05 AM on October 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by soundguy99 at 9:05 AM on October 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
Best insight into band dynamics I ever heard: you are messing with each other's dreams. Even if it's as casual as you describe, everyone who plays in a group has daydreamed for a long time about playing in a group, or playing in a group again and getting it right this time, etc. Everyone has a bunch of feelings and ideas that are unexplored and pent-up, and it's not going to come out as expected. Like the way you can have a picture in your head but it's impossible to draw it on paper. The act of drawing is making that inchoate vision real. The music can't be realized without getting your dreams and feelings all mixed up in other peoples dreams and feelings. This is a great thing! But it also requires a lot emotional brains and sweat to find a stable center between four people, and it's going to be constantly shifting.
posted by bendybendy at 9:22 AM on October 31, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by bendybendy at 9:22 AM on October 31, 2022 [9 favorites]
I have been in several bands at different points in my life, and for me the number 1 thing that makes them "work" (or not) is alignment on what the band is meant to be. It is worth talking about - and re-talking about - openly. If you are aligned, you can work through the ancillary stuff. But if some of you are in it for one thing and some of you for another, then eventually it will come apart.
A. I have had bands where we drink beer and eat tacos and play easy cover songs, with no goal other than just hanging out. Beginners to experts are welcome.
B. I have had bands where we write or co-write and record songs and try our very best to put on a good show and hand tapes to our friends in the hopes that people will like our music and ask us to play gigs and eventually we can make some money and party after shows and become junior rock stars.
C. I have had bands where a bunch of good musicians get together and jam and really focus up on the theory and the craft and try to get technically better.
D. I have had bands where a bunch of bad musicians get together and make almost a parody of what a band is, akin more to performance art than music.
Where you mix and match among those things, there's a higher risk of trouble. Because making music just for the social aspect is eventually incompatible with the real work and discipline of writing/rehearsing/performing your own stuff or improving your skills. (Or maybe in your case your instinct to want to maximize the skill-to-instrument assignment rather than have everyone with something they are comfortable with will be a roadblock.)
posted by AgentRocket at 9:25 AM on October 31, 2022 [8 favorites]
A. I have had bands where we drink beer and eat tacos and play easy cover songs, with no goal other than just hanging out. Beginners to experts are welcome.
B. I have had bands where we write or co-write and record songs and try our very best to put on a good show and hand tapes to our friends in the hopes that people will like our music and ask us to play gigs and eventually we can make some money and party after shows and become junior rock stars.
C. I have had bands where a bunch of good musicians get together and jam and really focus up on the theory and the craft and try to get technically better.
D. I have had bands where a bunch of bad musicians get together and make almost a parody of what a band is, akin more to performance art than music.
Where you mix and match among those things, there's a higher risk of trouble. Because making music just for the social aspect is eventually incompatible with the real work and discipline of writing/rehearsing/performing your own stuff or improving your skills. (Or maybe in your case your instinct to want to maximize the skill-to-instrument assignment rather than have everyone with something they are comfortable with will be a roadblock.)
posted by AgentRocket at 9:25 AM on October 31, 2022 [8 favorites]
Band group dynamics: you are basically all married to one another. So, it's very much a matter of everyone communicating effectively with one another, knowing how to express what they want, and also knowing how to compromise. This works better when everyone actually likes everyone else in the band; and, of course, when everyone is reasonably mature / free of antisocial personality traits. Sometimes "divorce" becomes inevitable.
It's probably better not to focus so much on who's better than whom at [role/instrument], and focus more on how you can contribute to the whole. I am also primarily a guitar player who agreed to play bass in a band because that was what they needed -- and the musical growth I have experienced over the past couple of years as a result has been astonishing. This does not mean I no longer want to play guitar; if anything, I think I might be a better guitar player now because of the growth playing bass. But I may most likely have to pursue other projects for that, and that's totally fine.
posted by fikri at 9:31 AM on October 31, 2022 [3 favorites]
It's probably better not to focus so much on who's better than whom at [role/instrument], and focus more on how you can contribute to the whole. I am also primarily a guitar player who agreed to play bass in a band because that was what they needed -- and the musical growth I have experienced over the past couple of years as a result has been astonishing. This does not mean I no longer want to play guitar; if anything, I think I might be a better guitar player now because of the growth playing bass. But I may most likely have to pursue other projects for that, and that's totally fine.
posted by fikri at 9:31 AM on October 31, 2022 [3 favorites]
This recent question had some good answers. In our case, we found that the dynamics of a trio are hard to beat - everyone feels like their part is meaningful and not superfluous, but you can also have the odd rehearsal session with someone missing and they won't feel massively left out. And yes to bendybendy's point about dreams. A band can be a wonderful thing if you feel it's a supportive platform for your 'creativity', whatever that might look like (and that also means constructive criticism). If the others were ever begrudging or disparaging or dismissive, it would not be any fun (that's what the audience is for...).
posted by srednivashtar at 10:14 AM on October 31, 2022
posted by srednivashtar at 10:14 AM on October 31, 2022
It's not worth pushing on who plays what instruments. The group has naturally optimized that. If you want to play guitar or drums in a band, you can do that with a different group. This group won't last forever, just let it be what it is.
It might be worth pushing on "only sad songs", that's a different kind of issue. Keep doing some of your singer's favorites, but try to suggest songs that might be appealing or easy for the group to pick up quickly. This means you do some research and try to find different stuff that might still work. What would you like to hear her sing?
posted by ewok_academy at 10:47 AM on October 31, 2022
It might be worth pushing on "only sad songs", that's a different kind of issue. Keep doing some of your singer's favorites, but try to suggest songs that might be appealing or easy for the group to pick up quickly. This means you do some research and try to find different stuff that might still work. What would you like to hear her sing?
posted by ewok_academy at 10:47 AM on October 31, 2022
I've been in bar bands (covers) and I now have my own band (originals).
The most important thing, honestly, in my opinion, regardless of what the intent of the band is, is you gotta like all of the people in your band. Like, really enjoy their company. You don't have to be BFFs, but you have to enjoy being around them. I've been in bands where we had one bad apple or one person who's personality just didn't mesh with everyone else's and it made things miserable.
After that, know what your goal is. Are you just a chill group playing covers and want to do a gig here and there at a bar or restaurant or neighborhood party or barbecue or some such? Do you want to be a wedding band? Or are you going to be creating original music.
If the latter - are the originals going to be group collaborations, or will you have one front person who is the primary writer? In my current band, I am the front person with the original material and my band is my backing band for live shows, though one of my band members is my co-songwriter. Also, if you have a front person, are they the de facto leader? My co-writer plays lead guitar and I have delegated band leading duties to him because I fucking suck at it. He's basically our musical director. This works because I trust him with our material.
Which brings me to - do you trust everyone to learn their parts, practice on their own, and come to rehearsals prepared? It sucks to be in a band where people show up to rehearse unprepared and then you have to waste time teaching and re-teaching the songs to them and don't actually get full band rehearsal time. Also, do you trust everyone not to pull weird hijinks at shows for attention, or not to get so wasted before a gig and not be able to perform well? If there's no trust and not even a modicum of professionalism (even in a chill cover band setting) the dynamic gets toxic fast.
Are you all on the same page as to the intent of the band?
If you are creating original material as a group, be open to everyone's ideas even if they seem terrible at first. Happy accidents occur that create great music. Or, everyone figures out quickly that the idea sounds like crap. Collaboration is key.
If you want to switch the lineup of the group, make sure everyone is ok with that and no one feels like it is a referendum on their skills. Hurt feelings cause a lot of band drama.
If someone is legitimately not good enough and hindering the group in a way that makes you feel like you can't progress in your band's goals/intent, be prepared to have an awkward but kind conversation and make sure everyone else is on the same page so you don't get castigated as the bad guy.
If someone wants to leave the band, be gracious. They may not have time, they may have lost interest, they may be nervous to perform, they may not want to play out at all, they just wanna drink beer and jam. Let them leave. You can find a replacement easily by putting the word out in your local music community.
If playing out is a goal, put one person in charge of outreach for gigs. Too many cooks in the kitchen leads to lots of confusion. I am this person for my band bc it's my material and my name. I have been this person in cover bands because I'm just good at it.
Overall though, have fun. Band drama will happen, it's the nature of the beast, but as long as you keep in the spirit of collaboration and openness, you'll be fine.
posted by nayantara at 10:52 AM on October 31, 2022 [3 favorites]
The most important thing, honestly, in my opinion, regardless of what the intent of the band is, is you gotta like all of the people in your band. Like, really enjoy their company. You don't have to be BFFs, but you have to enjoy being around them. I've been in bands where we had one bad apple or one person who's personality just didn't mesh with everyone else's and it made things miserable.
After that, know what your goal is. Are you just a chill group playing covers and want to do a gig here and there at a bar or restaurant or neighborhood party or barbecue or some such? Do you want to be a wedding band? Or are you going to be creating original music.
If the latter - are the originals going to be group collaborations, or will you have one front person who is the primary writer? In my current band, I am the front person with the original material and my band is my backing band for live shows, though one of my band members is my co-songwriter. Also, if you have a front person, are they the de facto leader? My co-writer plays lead guitar and I have delegated band leading duties to him because I fucking suck at it. He's basically our musical director. This works because I trust him with our material.
Which brings me to - do you trust everyone to learn their parts, practice on their own, and come to rehearsals prepared? It sucks to be in a band where people show up to rehearse unprepared and then you have to waste time teaching and re-teaching the songs to them and don't actually get full band rehearsal time. Also, do you trust everyone not to pull weird hijinks at shows for attention, or not to get so wasted before a gig and not be able to perform well? If there's no trust and not even a modicum of professionalism (even in a chill cover band setting) the dynamic gets toxic fast.
Are you all on the same page as to the intent of the band?
If you are creating original material as a group, be open to everyone's ideas even if they seem terrible at first. Happy accidents occur that create great music. Or, everyone figures out quickly that the idea sounds like crap. Collaboration is key.
If you want to switch the lineup of the group, make sure everyone is ok with that and no one feels like it is a referendum on their skills. Hurt feelings cause a lot of band drama.
If someone is legitimately not good enough and hindering the group in a way that makes you feel like you can't progress in your band's goals/intent, be prepared to have an awkward but kind conversation and make sure everyone else is on the same page so you don't get castigated as the bad guy.
If someone wants to leave the band, be gracious. They may not have time, they may have lost interest, they may be nervous to perform, they may not want to play out at all, they just wanna drink beer and jam. Let them leave. You can find a replacement easily by putting the word out in your local music community.
If playing out is a goal, put one person in charge of outreach for gigs. Too many cooks in the kitchen leads to lots of confusion. I am this person for my band bc it's my material and my name. I have been this person in cover bands because I'm just good at it.
Overall though, have fun. Band drama will happen, it's the nature of the beast, but as long as you keep in the spirit of collaboration and openness, you'll be fine.
posted by nayantara at 10:52 AM on October 31, 2022 [3 favorites]
I’ve been in a few bands where the point was to have fun, and decidedly not to be successful. The best experiences all involved saying YES to everything. Your singer wants to cover a song you hate? Say yes. You want to play the drums for a song? You should go for it. Your guitarist wants to play his company holiday party? Do it. Also, be flexible about who needs to be present. If you can’t make it to that holiday party, encourage your band to find a replacement for you.
And one more thing. If it’s not fun, don’t do it.
posted by soy_renfield at 10:11 PM on October 31, 2022 [2 favorites]
And one more thing. If it’s not fun, don’t do it.
posted by soy_renfield at 10:11 PM on October 31, 2022 [2 favorites]
Sure you're basically married to your bandmates, but unlike with marriage, you're allowed to be in more than one band.
posted by heatherlogan at 5:57 AM on November 1, 2022
posted by heatherlogan at 5:57 AM on November 1, 2022
Rock band personality dynamics are always a really fascinating psychology experiment. Ask me how I know, I could write a book. Mostly fun times, with a few awkward moments. Every band member comes in from different backgrounds with different expectations, and the process is filtered into a funny compromise of sorts.
On a personal note, I could recommend: reddit.com/r/Bass/
It's a not-awful subreddit with a fairly decent community. Sometimes there are interesting discussions of band dynamics, and other things.
(for guitarists subbing on bass...)
posted by ovvl at 5:48 PM on November 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
On a personal note, I could recommend: reddit.com/r/Bass/
It's a not-awful subreddit with a fairly decent community. Sometimes there are interesting discussions of band dynamics, and other things.
(for guitarists subbing on bass...)
posted by ovvl at 5:48 PM on November 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
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The biggest part of being in a band is enjoying the people you are playing with first, the music second, and your role in that music third. I have no idea if I was a better bass player (what I played) than our guitarist, or better at guitar.
I never wrote songs or was the main singer, but the person that does is kind of the defacto leader and you can only gently suggest that she sings happier songs (or songs you like better).
If you don't like the music, or the way she is singing, then just get out now and find a band you do like. You will have to play them a lot, and it will get worse.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:26 AM on October 31, 2022 [2 favorites]