Do smells cause (mini) seizures?
October 15, 2022 7:32 PM Subscribe
It's well known that seizures can be accompanied by phantom smells of burnt toast or burnt flesh, but can it go the other way? I became aware of this personally during a root canal when the smell of cauterising my roots sent an "electric" feeling down my spine and brought me to the brink of passing out. It felt somewhat like an incipient muscle cramp in my whole back, combined with a struggle to remain conscious.
Since then I've found that the smell of burning hair or burning rubber or tar can bring on the same experience. Strangely, the ordinary smells of cooking meat don't cause this problem for me; I generally find those smells pleasant.
So, I'm concerned about Musk's stupid new "burning hair" perfume. If it really smells like that it will cause me serious problems.
I'm wondering if this is something that other people experience with smells and particularly with burnt hair and burnt flesh smells.
Since then I've found that the smell of burning hair or burning rubber or tar can bring on the same experience. Strangely, the ordinary smells of cooking meat don't cause this problem for me; I generally find those smells pleasant.
So, I'm concerned about Musk's stupid new "burning hair" perfume. If it really smells like that it will cause me serious problems.
I'm wondering if this is something that other people experience with smells and particularly with burnt hair and burnt flesh smells.
I am definitely not an expert but what you are describing does not sound like a seizure to me.
In fact it sounds closer to a panic attack. If you find yourself at a loss for physical explanations you might investigate the mental aspect. Only you know you but it would not be surprising for the smell of burning flesh to connect to some very anxious memories.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:26 PM on October 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
In fact it sounds closer to a panic attack. If you find yourself at a loss for physical explanations you might investigate the mental aspect. Only you know you but it would not be surprising for the smell of burning flesh to connect to some very anxious memories.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:26 PM on October 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
Best answer: The vagus nerve is tied into the rest of the body in a very primal and profound way. Everyone is a little different when it comes to triggering a vasovagal response, which is when a cascade of sensations and signals basically overwhelms the vagus nerve’s insulating sheathing and inherent error-correction capabilities and triggers a sympathetic autonomic loss-of-consciousness event via the circulatory system. That’s what caused my dad to pass out in the delivery room while I was being born, and it’s how I got my first concussion about fifteen years ago.
posted by infinitewindow at 10:45 PM on October 15, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by infinitewindow at 10:45 PM on October 15, 2022 [10 favorites]
Response by poster: The vasovagal response or, more generally, reflex syncope is probably the correct answer here. A bit of googling suggests the triggers are somewhat idiosyncratic. I’m still wondering whether the specific triggers of burnt hair or flesh smells are common but it seems the syndrome itself is neither very common nor very rare so there might not be much to learn here.
Fwiw, I have passed out from needles and also I can’t smoke pot because it gives me lung spasms that make me pass out. So I seem susceptible to this syndrome, but the experience from the burnt-hair smell seems very different to me somehow. Specifically, the feeling of a neck/back cramp coming on and a distinct and fairly general “electrical” sensation. And it takes very very little of the scent to affect me. But these might nevertheless be different manifestations of the same thing.
posted by sjswitzer at 11:42 PM on October 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
Fwiw, I have passed out from needles and also I can’t smoke pot because it gives me lung spasms that make me pass out. So I seem susceptible to this syndrome, but the experience from the burnt-hair smell seems very different to me somehow. Specifically, the feeling of a neck/back cramp coming on and a distinct and fairly general “electrical” sensation. And it takes very very little of the scent to affect me. But these might nevertheless be different manifestations of the same thing.
posted by sjswitzer at 11:42 PM on October 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
Spike oil (lavender) can cause a seizure in susceptible people. Apparently so can other essential oils. I agree that this doesn’t sound anything like a seizure though.
posted by shadygrove at 3:26 AM on October 16, 2022
posted by shadygrove at 3:26 AM on October 16, 2022
Very nice observation and a fascinating question.
My explanation, which I don’t think contradicts infinitewindow's, is akin to your initial thoughts.
I am apparently resistant to losing consciousness, having surprised a couple of different anesthesiologists by answering questions they'd directed to someone else in the OR when they thought I was completely out, and when I had a subdural hematoma, my brain surgeon later told me 'when I show your scan to people they can’t believe you were walking around. Most of them think you must have been in a coma and near death'.
But when I had all my wisdom teeth removed by an oral surgeon, two were impacted and one was infected, and when the infected tooth was drilled into 4 pieces it hurt, and when the surgeon reached into the socket and plucked out the infected tissue with forceps, it didn’t hurt, but I started to go into shock, and they had to quickly crank the chair back to keep me from passing out.
So I think there is something special about trauma to the nerves of your teeth that can knock you out.
Which is what I think was happening to you — but when you smelled the burning roots, that acted like smelling salts and helped keep you from passing out! And the electric shock you felt is part of the arousing effect of the smell.
Where this ties into the smell of burning that epileptics report prior to a seizure, is that I think the illusion of the smell is part of an attempt by the brain to induce arousal to stave off the seizure.
My justification for this is that pseudoseizures, also called "psychogenic nonepileptic seizures", in which a person has what looks like a seizure without the EEG of a seizure is much more common among people who have epilepsy than in the general population.
Which I think means that many of the symptoms we see as essential to the event of a seizure are actually components of an attempt to ward off or ameliorate an impending seizure event.
Now from your experience I can add the burning smell illusion to the components I think are mustered to help prevent or cope with a seizure.
posted by jamjam at 4:36 PM on October 16, 2022
My explanation, which I don’t think contradicts infinitewindow's, is akin to your initial thoughts.
I am apparently resistant to losing consciousness, having surprised a couple of different anesthesiologists by answering questions they'd directed to someone else in the OR when they thought I was completely out, and when I had a subdural hematoma, my brain surgeon later told me 'when I show your scan to people they can’t believe you were walking around. Most of them think you must have been in a coma and near death'.
But when I had all my wisdom teeth removed by an oral surgeon, two were impacted and one was infected, and when the infected tooth was drilled into 4 pieces it hurt, and when the surgeon reached into the socket and plucked out the infected tissue with forceps, it didn’t hurt, but I started to go into shock, and they had to quickly crank the chair back to keep me from passing out.
So I think there is something special about trauma to the nerves of your teeth that can knock you out.
Which is what I think was happening to you — but when you smelled the burning roots, that acted like smelling salts and helped keep you from passing out! And the electric shock you felt is part of the arousing effect of the smell.
Where this ties into the smell of burning that epileptics report prior to a seizure, is that I think the illusion of the smell is part of an attempt by the brain to induce arousal to stave off the seizure.
My justification for this is that pseudoseizures, also called "psychogenic nonepileptic seizures", in which a person has what looks like a seizure without the EEG of a seizure is much more common among people who have epilepsy than in the general population.
Which I think means that many of the symptoms we see as essential to the event of a seizure are actually components of an attempt to ward off or ameliorate an impending seizure event.
Now from your experience I can add the burning smell illusion to the components I think are mustered to help prevent or cope with a seizure.
posted by jamjam at 4:36 PM on October 16, 2022
Concerning teeth and the vagus nerve, I found this interesting tidbit:
The vagus nerve originates in the brain and runs down the body to the heart, via the jaws alongside the teeth. Naturally, complications in cardiac muscle activity or heart disease can result in pain in the teeth as well.posted by jamjam at 5:15 PM on October 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by coffeecat at 8:02 PM on October 15, 2022 [3 favorites]