Attracted to my same-sex therapist, should I find a new one?
October 12, 2022 8:15 PM Subscribe
I’m in my early thirties and I started seeing a female therapist in her late thirties at a clinic for LGB issues and other personal family issues. I’m quite attracted to her but I don’t think it is wholly to do with transference. I’m feeling confused and not sure what to do?
My therapist also let’s the sessions go over thirty minutes more (the sessions are supposed to be sixty minutes). I find her quite intelligent, kind, and empathetic and attractive as well. I have always liked older women as well. I’m also struggling with being sexually and emotionally repressed with liking women and wanting to date one eventually as I’m bi but prefer women more than men. I have a hunch she finds me attractive as well and we seem to connect well. I also attend her women’s group therapy that she spearheads and I noticed we kept exchanging glances and I couldn’t take my eyes off her at times. I really want to kiss her but I know nothing can happen and I hope the attraction will wane or I can simply ignore it. I find it so easy to make her laugh and we’re always smiling and exchanging intense eye contact. She is honestly one of the best therapist I have ever had and I see wonderful improvement so far for me, but not sure if the attraction for her will get in the way at times.
Should I ride it out and stick with her because her advice and worksheets are helpful? Maybe I can just suck it up and suppress the attraction because I do find her very helpful but I find it frustrating at the same time.
My therapist also let’s the sessions go over thirty minutes more (the sessions are supposed to be sixty minutes). I find her quite intelligent, kind, and empathetic and attractive as well. I have always liked older women as well. I’m also struggling with being sexually and emotionally repressed with liking women and wanting to date one eventually as I’m bi but prefer women more than men. I have a hunch she finds me attractive as well and we seem to connect well. I also attend her women’s group therapy that she spearheads and I noticed we kept exchanging glances and I couldn’t take my eyes off her at times. I really want to kiss her but I know nothing can happen and I hope the attraction will wane or I can simply ignore it. I find it so easy to make her laugh and we’re always smiling and exchanging intense eye contact. She is honestly one of the best therapist I have ever had and I see wonderful improvement so far for me, but not sure if the attraction for her will get in the way at times.
Should I ride it out and stick with her because her advice and worksheets are helpful? Maybe I can just suck it up and suppress the attraction because I do find her very helpful but I find it frustrating at the same time.
Three options:
Option 2 would allow you to examine your feelings of and about attraction in depth. It would take the fun and mystery out of the situation with her, but would probably help you in the long run.
Option 3 would clear up the situation one way or another, although I think an ethics board might look poorly on her dating even an ex–patient.
You should know that people falling in love with therapists is a cliché among professionals. It’s a natural thing to happen, as therapists are many times the only source of warmth and light in someone’s life. The one person that someone can truly be themselves with. If she’s been practicing for a while this is probably not the first time she has encountered this type of situation.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:38 PM on October 12, 2022 [19 favorites]
- Continue seeing her without talking about this
- Continue seeing her but talk about your attraction to her
- Stop seeing her as a therapist, potentially ask her out on a date
Option 2 would allow you to examine your feelings of and about attraction in depth. It would take the fun and mystery out of the situation with her, but would probably help you in the long run.
Option 3 would clear up the situation one way or another, although I think an ethics board might look poorly on her dating even an ex–patient.
You should know that people falling in love with therapists is a cliché among professionals. It’s a natural thing to happen, as therapists are many times the only source of warmth and light in someone’s life. The one person that someone can truly be themselves with. If she’s been practicing for a while this is probably not the first time she has encountered this type of situation.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:38 PM on October 12, 2022 [19 favorites]
people falling in love with therapists is a cliché among professionals
It's also called transference, the phenomenon where a client/patient attaches positive (or negative) attributes-feelings from elsewhere in life to a therapeutic relationship. Your therapist will certainly be aware of it as identifying it is a foundational part of the job.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 10:31 PM on October 12, 2022 [3 favorites]
It's also called transference, the phenomenon where a client/patient attaches positive (or negative) attributes-feelings from elsewhere in life to a therapeutic relationship. Your therapist will certainly be aware of it as identifying it is a foundational part of the job.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 10:31 PM on October 12, 2022 [3 favorites]
I know that this feels powerful and heady and even sexy, but honestly, a therapist who practices in an ethically sound manner would not ever allow sessions to be running 30 minutes over the allotted time. It's even specifically mentioned in material about therapeutic ethics as a sign of poor/blurry/diffuse boundaries. It gives me a bit of a weird feeling and feels off to me. I would not want someone I care about seeing a therapist with boundaries that lax because I would worry about what other boundaries they're unable to hold in a professional and ethical manner. Gently, ya can't kiss your therapist, because you aren't going to get the kind of care you need (objective, a relationship of equals, a secure attachment figure and external regulator as you move through intensity) when the professional you're seeing allows something like that to happen. It just isn't possible. This is one of the reasons we don't get therapy from our dates and lovers. Any therapist who's safe to see would not be letting this happen. Please protect yourself and find a therapist who can be ethical in their treatment of you. You can do this. Be well. <3
posted by fairlynearlyready at 10:32 PM on October 12, 2022 [54 favorites]
posted by fairlynearlyready at 10:32 PM on October 12, 2022 [54 favorites]
I find it so easy to make her laugh and we’re always smiling and exchanging intense eye contact.
this is her job. she is doing her job. making an effort to get on your level and your wavelength and get your jokes and give you positive affirmation and look you in the eye and smile at you is all part of HER JOB.
there are therapists who do not work in this way, who will be ice cold and blank to you, but I think that if you are this willing to believe she is into you just from observing her do standard therapist things, the other kind of therapist might do you even more damage if you decided their own way of doing their job meant they hated you. (it would not mean that.)
you might be better off getting a new therapist (DO NOT ASK THIS ONE OUT REGARDLESS) but coming to understand how much of therapy is an earnest and contained game of let's-pretend matters more than who your therapist is. much more. the need for you to understand what's going on here would not go away just because you stopped seeing her, specifically.
if you are undecided on who to believe about this, tell her your "hunch" while you wait.
posted by queenofbithynia at 10:32 PM on October 12, 2022 [6 favorites]
this is her job. she is doing her job. making an effort to get on your level and your wavelength and get your jokes and give you positive affirmation and look you in the eye and smile at you is all part of HER JOB.
there are therapists who do not work in this way, who will be ice cold and blank to you, but I think that if you are this willing to believe she is into you just from observing her do standard therapist things, the other kind of therapist might do you even more damage if you decided their own way of doing their job meant they hated you. (it would not mean that.)
you might be better off getting a new therapist (DO NOT ASK THIS ONE OUT REGARDLESS) but coming to understand how much of therapy is an earnest and contained game of let's-pretend matters more than who your therapist is. much more. the need for you to understand what's going on here would not go away just because you stopped seeing her, specifically.
if you are undecided on who to believe about this, tell her your "hunch" while you wait.
posted by queenofbithynia at 10:32 PM on October 12, 2022 [6 favorites]
Adding that I'm a mental health professional who supervises other mental health professionals, including regarding ethical boundaries. Please find a new therapist because you deserve appropriate care.
posted by fairlynearlyready at 10:35 PM on October 12, 2022 [22 favorites]
posted by fairlynearlyready at 10:35 PM on October 12, 2022 [22 favorites]
If you find her attractive, you won’t get to do your best work. You will want her approval more than your own growth. You are in therapy for YOU so don’t be with someone who makes it hard to focus on you.
posted by Bottlecap at 10:49 PM on October 12, 2022 [14 favorites]
posted by Bottlecap at 10:49 PM on October 12, 2022 [14 favorites]
Yes. The mental energy you’re expending on this topic is mental energy you should be using for healing.
posted by chiquitita at 1:36 AM on October 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by chiquitita at 1:36 AM on October 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
She's letting sessions run THIRTY MINUTES beyond the scheduled end time--am I understanding that correctly? Yeah, this level of poor boundaries is a red flag to me and personally I would not be super confident that this person is skilled/professional enough to handle you talking out your attraction to her in a way that will be helpful/healthy/therapeutic to you.
posted by needs more cowbell at 2:37 AM on October 13, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by needs more cowbell at 2:37 AM on October 13, 2022 [8 favorites]
I’ve seen about 4-5 different therapists in my life and every single one consistently ended sessions at the scheduled time, like clockwork. Letting sessions regularly run 30 minutes over time is unprofessional and strange.
posted by mekily at 4:40 AM on October 13, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by mekily at 4:40 AM on October 13, 2022 [6 favorites]
Ending sessions that far past the scheduled time is a red flag.
But also re: option 3 by Tell Me No Lies above, most boards for mental health professionals forbid dating or having a sexual relationship with former clients for a significant time period after they are no longer a client. For psychologists it is 2 years and for social workers it is 5 years after documented termination. For MFT I can't find good data - it's either discouraged altogether or prohibited altogether vs having a timeframe to meet before you can pursue that relationship.
This is to protect clients that may be under the influence of a therapeutic relationship from being exploited.
posted by crunchy potato at 5:06 AM on October 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
But also re: option 3 by Tell Me No Lies above, most boards for mental health professionals forbid dating or having a sexual relationship with former clients for a significant time period after they are no longer a client. For psychologists it is 2 years and for social workers it is 5 years after documented termination. For MFT I can't find good data - it's either discouraged altogether or prohibited altogether vs having a timeframe to meet before you can pursue that relationship.
This is to protect clients that may be under the influence of a therapeutic relationship from being exploited.
posted by crunchy potato at 5:06 AM on October 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
Gently, taken in the context of your other questions, this is a theme for you that would actually be valuable (but awkward) to talk about with a therapist. (I agree it's weird that she always goes way over time but there's some quirky therapists out there. One thing that would 100% be unethical though and also could rightfully lead her to lose her license would be for her to romantically connect with her client).
Also, I routinely have crushes on my therapists. It's a massive projection fest: someone wise and attuned is laser focused on me, "gets" me like no one else? What's not to like about that? My therapist is as far as I can tell a great person and she's definitely a great therapist but it's pretty obvious that the attraction I feel is about the context more than the person. It took me experiencing this with several therapists to get this. You also already have this fantasy about an 'older' woman that this therapist can slot into easily in your mind.
If you were to advise a beloved friend or younger relative about this situation what would you tell them?
posted by latkes at 5:36 AM on October 13, 2022 [8 favorites]
Also, I routinely have crushes on my therapists. It's a massive projection fest: someone wise and attuned is laser focused on me, "gets" me like no one else? What's not to like about that? My therapist is as far as I can tell a great person and she's definitely a great therapist but it's pretty obvious that the attraction I feel is about the context more than the person. It took me experiencing this with several therapists to get this. You also already have this fantasy about an 'older' woman that this therapist can slot into easily in your mind.
If you were to advise a beloved friend or younger relative about this situation what would you tell them?
posted by latkes at 5:36 AM on October 13, 2022 [8 favorites]
>> people falling in love with therapists is a cliché among professionals
It's also called transference, the phenomenon where a client/patient attaches positive (or negative) attributes-feelings from elsewhere in life to a therapeutic relationship
Transference is also a reason someone might develop feelings for a therapist, but simply being attracted to a safe, kind person who appears to be emotionally stable (don’t bet on it) is another. The OP feels they have accounted for transference so I was suggesting that the latter might be a factor as well.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 5:40 AM on October 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
It's also called transference, the phenomenon where a client/patient attaches positive (or negative) attributes-feelings from elsewhere in life to a therapeutic relationship
Transference is also a reason someone might develop feelings for a therapist, but simply being attracted to a safe, kind person who appears to be emotionally stable (don’t bet on it) is another. The OP feels they have accounted for transference so I was suggesting that the latter might be a factor as well.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 5:40 AM on October 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
Speaking as a person with a psychotherapy practice, my general recommendation is always to have the difficult conversation. A skilled clinician will help you grow from that conversation, and the growth is often exponential when clients bring forward something that's hard to say about their experience of the relationship. In some models of therapy, this is where the therapy actually happens - in our experience of the relationship.
But this recommendation to have the hard conversation assumes the clinician is skilled, ethical, and appropriately managing any countertransference that might be happening. I don't have enough data to speculate on whether that is your situation or not.
I often see people complain that they bring a concern to the therapist and the therapist responds defensively. That's not supposed to happen. A therapist that gets defensive from negative feedback will be less likely to facilitate the growth possible from a hard conversation, unfortunately.
If it were me in your position, I would ask myself how do they handle negative feedback or people throwing them curve balls, like in your group sessions. Do they handle it ok? (Green light) Get brusque? (Orange light) Laugh it off and not circle back or promise that person they will address the concern individually after the session? (To me that's a red light but I have triggers around being dismissed, so that might be orange or yellow for someone else.)
If they seem to manage difficult feedback well and generally seem ethical, then I would vote for you to tell them this is happening.
Now, if you want to dismantle your crush, I'm going to let you see behind the curtain a little bit. Don't read this if you don't want insider info on providers of psychotherapy.
Many therapists probably make crappy partners. We often use up all that great attention and listening at work and our personal relationships get the dregs. Many of us either have significant blind spots about our own woundedness or hyper awareness of our own woundedness.
A lot of therapists have dependency issues of one form or another. Some therapists have a need to rescue others that they don't realize is dysfunctional (or don't want to give up), which can come with weird control issues and manipulation where you "can't" really "get better" with whatever they are codependently supporting you about without threatening their role in that dynamic, which is often tied to their sense of identity. This can result in both people remaining pretty stuck depending on their level of insight.
You know the saying those that can't do teach? Therapists are often experts in areas that they needed to address for themselves. Ideally they don't work on those areas for others until they achieve mastery or at least fully metabolize their own shit. But not everyone realizes that they need to do that.
We can compartmentalize our feelings to a ridiculous level which can have some significant impacts on a relationship.
To give you an example of this compartmentalization ability, I learned that my mother had stroke symptoms, was rapidly losing her ability to speak while at the hospital, and possibly had brain damage due to how long they took to intervene. I communicated to a client that I would need to start our session five minutes late so I could call her and tell her I loved her. (I didn't tell the client why. But that was why.) My mother's reply was garbled due to losing her speech. That turned out to be the last time she would be able to say anything more than one word to me. Then I did my session as normal, sending my personal feelings away before I started the appointment. My feelings about my mother didn't intrude on the appointment at any time.
(Caveat here: If my client were dealing with a parent with a medical crisis or recently going on hospice or something like that I might have cancelled just to be sure I could be clear for them in session.)
A few days later I had to tell my sister that giving our mother a feeding tube goes against her wishes expressed in the DNR right before giving a presentation in the community, after having spent all day at the hospital doing admin work for my job interspersed with talking to doctors and taking care of my mother. (This presentation was directly about topics tangentially related to my mother having the DNR and rapidly declining but a presentation doesn't need the same engagement as an individual therapy session so I was able to do this without any risk of contaminating the situation. I also just... Poof... Sent my feelings about my personal shit off into the nether regions right before I walked into the building. We can just... Do that. Many of us can, anyway.
The tl;dr there is that we do not have a normal relationship to our emotions. You can imagine all the ways that could show up in a relationship. Only some of those ways are useful. Generally speaking, whatever shit I'm dealing with personally I can send away when I'm in therapist mode, just like that -- *snaps fingers.* Other therapists call this a super power. But sometimes it means we can't go back and find the feelings we sent away, or they come back at random times. A highly self-aware person will probably know that is happening but someone might also misattribute the feeling to whatever is happening in the present. As you can imagine that gets tricky.
I'm sure there's been one or two times in my life where I used this ability in front of a partner and they questioned if I might have some kind of character disorder because of how quickly I could just turn that shit off. It's absolutely necessary to be an effective clinician, but it can make it weird to be a partner to us.
posted by crunchy potato at 7:59 AM on October 13, 2022 [12 favorites]
But this recommendation to have the hard conversation assumes the clinician is skilled, ethical, and appropriately managing any countertransference that might be happening. I don't have enough data to speculate on whether that is your situation or not.
I often see people complain that they bring a concern to the therapist and the therapist responds defensively. That's not supposed to happen. A therapist that gets defensive from negative feedback will be less likely to facilitate the growth possible from a hard conversation, unfortunately.
If it were me in your position, I would ask myself how do they handle negative feedback or people throwing them curve balls, like in your group sessions. Do they handle it ok? (Green light) Get brusque? (Orange light) Laugh it off and not circle back or promise that person they will address the concern individually after the session? (To me that's a red light but I have triggers around being dismissed, so that might be orange or yellow for someone else.)
If they seem to manage difficult feedback well and generally seem ethical, then I would vote for you to tell them this is happening.
Now, if you want to dismantle your crush, I'm going to let you see behind the curtain a little bit. Don't read this if you don't want insider info on providers of psychotherapy.
Many therapists probably make crappy partners. We often use up all that great attention and listening at work and our personal relationships get the dregs. Many of us either have significant blind spots about our own woundedness or hyper awareness of our own woundedness.
A lot of therapists have dependency issues of one form or another. Some therapists have a need to rescue others that they don't realize is dysfunctional (or don't want to give up), which can come with weird control issues and manipulation where you "can't" really "get better" with whatever they are codependently supporting you about without threatening their role in that dynamic, which is often tied to their sense of identity. This can result in both people remaining pretty stuck depending on their level of insight.
You know the saying those that can't do teach? Therapists are often experts in areas that they needed to address for themselves. Ideally they don't work on those areas for others until they achieve mastery or at least fully metabolize their own shit. But not everyone realizes that they need to do that.
We can compartmentalize our feelings to a ridiculous level which can have some significant impacts on a relationship.
To give you an example of this compartmentalization ability, I learned that my mother had stroke symptoms, was rapidly losing her ability to speak while at the hospital, and possibly had brain damage due to how long they took to intervene. I communicated to a client that I would need to start our session five minutes late so I could call her and tell her I loved her. (I didn't tell the client why. But that was why.) My mother's reply was garbled due to losing her speech. That turned out to be the last time she would be able to say anything more than one word to me. Then I did my session as normal, sending my personal feelings away before I started the appointment. My feelings about my mother didn't intrude on the appointment at any time.
(Caveat here: If my client were dealing with a parent with a medical crisis or recently going on hospice or something like that I might have cancelled just to be sure I could be clear for them in session.)
A few days later I had to tell my sister that giving our mother a feeding tube goes against her wishes expressed in the DNR right before giving a presentation in the community, after having spent all day at the hospital doing admin work for my job interspersed with talking to doctors and taking care of my mother. (This presentation was directly about topics tangentially related to my mother having the DNR and rapidly declining but a presentation doesn't need the same engagement as an individual therapy session so I was able to do this without any risk of contaminating the situation. I also just... Poof... Sent my feelings about my personal shit off into the nether regions right before I walked into the building. We can just... Do that. Many of us can, anyway.
The tl;dr there is that we do not have a normal relationship to our emotions. You can imagine all the ways that could show up in a relationship. Only some of those ways are useful. Generally speaking, whatever shit I'm dealing with personally I can send away when I'm in therapist mode, just like that -- *snaps fingers.* Other therapists call this a super power. But sometimes it means we can't go back and find the feelings we sent away, or they come back at random times. A highly self-aware person will probably know that is happening but someone might also misattribute the feeling to whatever is happening in the present. As you can imagine that gets tricky.
I'm sure there's been one or two times in my life where I used this ability in front of a partner and they questioned if I might have some kind of character disorder because of how quickly I could just turn that shit off. It's absolutely necessary to be an effective clinician, but it can make it weird to be a partner to us.
posted by crunchy potato at 7:59 AM on October 13, 2022 [12 favorites]
You should find a new MALE therapist because based on your other recent questions, you are both really thirsty and pretty unavailable right now, and you need to work that stuff out without the distraction of attraction.
posted by metasarah at 8:50 AM on October 13, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by metasarah at 8:50 AM on October 13, 2022 [4 favorites]
I’ve seen about 4-5 different therapists in my life and every single one consistently ended sessions at the scheduled time, like clockwork. Letting sessions regularly run 30 minutes over time is unprofessional and strange.
This.
Normally I would say discuss it with your therapist because it's so common that it should be an area that a therapist is ready to handle properly and it would be good for you. But this therapist is already displaying a lack of sort of normal boundaries and competency. The reason sessions end on time is a part of the boundaries. (My therapist went over twice in 6 years, and both times were for actual discussed reasons. Also my therapist had 1/2 hour gaps between clients, but had it worked out so generally one client never saw the other one.)
So I think I would recommend a new therapist, but discuss with your current therapist why once you've found that person, so you get that conversation.
If your therapist makes any moves towards dating in the next two years run like hell.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:46 AM on October 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
This.
Normally I would say discuss it with your therapist because it's so common that it should be an area that a therapist is ready to handle properly and it would be good for you. But this therapist is already displaying a lack of sort of normal boundaries and competency. The reason sessions end on time is a part of the boundaries. (My therapist went over twice in 6 years, and both times were for actual discussed reasons. Also my therapist had 1/2 hour gaps between clients, but had it worked out so generally one client never saw the other one.)
So I think I would recommend a new therapist, but discuss with your current therapist why once you've found that person, so you get that conversation.
If your therapist makes any moves towards dating in the next two years run like hell.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:46 AM on October 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
look: lord only knows what your therapist is thinking, but she presumably knows you have older woman issues (not meant to pathologize your attraction to older women, issues and attractions coexist and I do not mean that your pattern of attraction is itself a problem to be solved). knowing this, they have decided to a) take you on as a client and b) interact with you in a certain way. there are a lot of potential explanations for this, many of them essentially benign even if ultimately unhelpful. being attracted to you is a very unlikely explanation, and it is also not one of the benign ones.
some therapists might think: oh, this client looks to older women for approval and acceptance, this probably means she has been denied these things by older female figures in her life; so in my capacity as an older woman figure, I will shower her with unconditional positive regard and thereby repair this emotional deficit. I think this is really fucking stupid but there are certainly therapists who operate this way. what I am trying to say is that if you think she is being extra nice and extra accommodating to you, perhaps past the strict bounds of professionalism, you may be correct. but if you are correct that does not mean she is attracted. and I think that holding onto this belief, even if you are resolved never to make a move, is probably bad for you.
it is generally understood to be a bad thing to treat certain clients in a way that will make them think they are special - like giving them extra time. however, it is also true that some therapists are real bad with boundaries and time management. you might think there's no way she's letting everyone's session run over so long, it must be just you, it must mean something. but never underestimate a therapist's capacity for chaotic professional practices. much better to assume she does this with everyone, and concentrate only on whether this practice of hers is a good one.
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:47 AM on October 13, 2022 [6 favorites]
some therapists might think: oh, this client looks to older women for approval and acceptance, this probably means she has been denied these things by older female figures in her life; so in my capacity as an older woman figure, I will shower her with unconditional positive regard and thereby repair this emotional deficit. I think this is really fucking stupid but there are certainly therapists who operate this way. what I am trying to say is that if you think she is being extra nice and extra accommodating to you, perhaps past the strict bounds of professionalism, you may be correct. but if you are correct that does not mean she is attracted. and I think that holding onto this belief, even if you are resolved never to make a move, is probably bad for you.
it is generally understood to be a bad thing to treat certain clients in a way that will make them think they are special - like giving them extra time. however, it is also true that some therapists are real bad with boundaries and time management. you might think there's no way she's letting everyone's session run over so long, it must be just you, it must mean something. but never underestimate a therapist's capacity for chaotic professional practices. much better to assume she does this with everyone, and concentrate only on whether this practice of hers is a good one.
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:47 AM on October 13, 2022 [6 favorites]
I'm a psychologist (not yours)<>
In general I'd answer the question as, "talk to her about all of this." But I'm a little worried about what's going to happen, if this therapist is really not competent enough, boundaried (sp.?) enough, etc. You're obviously very vulnerable right now and these things are very hard to talk about (for most people).
You're feeling that you're being treated in a special way (differently from her other patients),and maybe you're wrong and maybe you're right. I know of at least two people who married their therapists (when push came to shove, the therapists wanted love more than to fulfill their ethical standards and practices guidelines -- their choice).
But I think it's most likely that this therapist likes you but is lot falling in love with you, and if you bring up directly your feelings for her and ask what the meaning is of her attention toward you and those extra-long sessions, and she doesn't handle it well, you may feel utterly humiliated and have to flee, under the worst emotional circumstances (even though she might be perfectly nice and appropriate about it).
So it's a difficult situation. What I WISH is that these Metafilter questions were not one-offs, where very rarely the questioner comes back and there is an actual discussion. That's not what this is for. But that's what I wish could happen --- you could test the waters with her, say you wonder about the rapport the two of you have developed, and sometimes you find yourself attracted to her, and you have some idea that she is reciprocating, but you know that might be a distortion on your part, and you feel kind of weird and embarrassed saying these things to her, and it's a big risk you know you're taking but you also know that therapy means trying to say everything on your mind even though it can be embarrassing and painful, so you're very conflicted, but you've decided that it's all a part of your treatment so you owe it to yourself to be honest and forthright with her and trust that she will handle it gently and not freak out, and, by the way, what's with those 90-minute sessions, is that normal?
Something like that!! and then COME BACK TO US to we can talk you down! (if need be)
That is my fantasy.
posted by DMelanogaster at 11:10 AM on October 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
In general I'd answer the question as, "talk to her about all of this." But I'm a little worried about what's going to happen, if this therapist is really not competent enough, boundaried (sp.?) enough, etc. You're obviously very vulnerable right now and these things are very hard to talk about (for most people).
You're feeling that you're being treated in a special way (differently from her other patients),and maybe you're wrong and maybe you're right. I know of at least two people who married their therapists (when push came to shove, the therapists wanted love more than to fulfill their ethical standards and practices guidelines -- their choice).
But I think it's most likely that this therapist likes you but is lot falling in love with you, and if you bring up directly your feelings for her and ask what the meaning is of her attention toward you and those extra-long sessions, and she doesn't handle it well, you may feel utterly humiliated and have to flee, under the worst emotional circumstances (even though she might be perfectly nice and appropriate about it).
So it's a difficult situation. What I WISH is that these Metafilter questions were not one-offs, where very rarely the questioner comes back and there is an actual discussion. That's not what this is for. But that's what I wish could happen --- you could test the waters with her, say you wonder about the rapport the two of you have developed, and sometimes you find yourself attracted to her, and you have some idea that she is reciprocating, but you know that might be a distortion on your part, and you feel kind of weird and embarrassed saying these things to her, and it's a big risk you know you're taking but you also know that therapy means trying to say everything on your mind even though it can be embarrassing and painful, so you're very conflicted, but you've decided that it's all a part of your treatment so you owe it to yourself to be honest and forthright with her and trust that she will handle it gently and not freak out, and, by the way, what's with those 90-minute sessions, is that normal?
Something like that!! and then COME BACK TO US to we can talk you down! (if need be)
That is my fantasy.
posted by DMelanogaster at 11:10 AM on October 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
I've worked in the field and want to echo the ethical concerns others have raised. To me, any person who is willing to disregard the boundaries, morals and ethics inherent in a therapist to client relationship is not someone who is safe/healthy to be in a relationship with.
In more direct terms, I saw this scenario play out with my own mother and her same sex therapist as a child and there is no happy ending here outside of moving on and getting a new therapist.
posted by Jarcat at 11:18 AM on October 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
In more direct terms, I saw this scenario play out with my own mother and her same sex therapist as a child and there is no happy ending here outside of moving on and getting a new therapist.
posted by Jarcat at 11:18 AM on October 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
New therapist--whether she's deliberately flirting with you or not, you're going to be wondering about it the whole time, which defeats the purpose.
Also, therapeutic question, what is keeping you from flirting with an older woman who is not in a position of power over you (professor, therapist)? Bring that up with the next therapist.
posted by kingdead at 11:48 AM on October 13, 2022 [4 favorites]
Also, therapeutic question, what is keeping you from flirting with an older woman who is not in a position of power over you (professor, therapist)? Bring that up with the next therapist.
posted by kingdead at 11:48 AM on October 13, 2022 [4 favorites]
(IAAT/IANYT) The going over time thing feels important to me. I admittedly am more lax with my sessions than some--if we start a few minutes late, I'll generally ask if it's ok to go over time by a bit, or if we're in a really intense place with five minutes to go, I'll often spend some extra time making sure my client is ready to return to their day. And sometimes, I just lose track and go over time because I'm human. However, if I find myself consistently going over time with someone, I need to check my boundaries. It's not that this would indicate I'm being wildly unethical, it's more of a red flag that something in the client-therapist relationship is off kilter and I need to figure it out--for instance, I might be overstepping and trying to give extra attention to someone because I perceive that they need more external support (in which case I should encourage them to seek more sources of external support), or I might be enjoying our conversations and wishing I could be friends with the client (in which case I should tighten up my boundaries and be very cautious about personal disclosures), or I might be feeling attracted to the client (in which case I should tighten up my boundaries and talk through my feelings with a supervisor or my personal therapist).
Feelings of attraction happen in both directions, but a romantic relationship is never appropriate or healthy--even after the time imposed by the professional ethics organization. There isn't just a power imbalance but an intimacy/vulnerability imbalance: the client discloses SO MUCH to the therapist and is free to share absolutely anything they want; the therapist should only share personal disclosures insofar as they serve the work, and naturally keeps SO MUCH private.
Ordinarily, I'd encourage anyone feeling attraction to their therapist to strongly consider bringing it up in session. However, I don't know that I would in this case. With some therapists, I'd suggest starting by asking about the sessions running long ("I've been wondering why you let our sessions go half an hour over time. It's confusing, because that feels more like how friends would talk than a therapy session.") and see how the therapist responds (healthy response: "I can understand why that would be confusing. I'm sorry for not holding the boundary on time in a consistent way. Would you rather try to reestablish trust in our therapist and client relationship and let me demonstrate that consistency going forward, or would you feel more comfortable seeing a different therapist?"). If the boundary can be reestablished, it might be possible to discuss the attraction. But I don't know enough about this therapist to gauge how capable she is of responding appropriately to the time question, let alone the attraction issue.
posted by theotherdurassister at 12:52 PM on October 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
Feelings of attraction happen in both directions, but a romantic relationship is never appropriate or healthy--even after the time imposed by the professional ethics organization. There isn't just a power imbalance but an intimacy/vulnerability imbalance: the client discloses SO MUCH to the therapist and is free to share absolutely anything they want; the therapist should only share personal disclosures insofar as they serve the work, and naturally keeps SO MUCH private.
Ordinarily, I'd encourage anyone feeling attraction to their therapist to strongly consider bringing it up in session. However, I don't know that I would in this case. With some therapists, I'd suggest starting by asking about the sessions running long ("I've been wondering why you let our sessions go half an hour over time. It's confusing, because that feels more like how friends would talk than a therapy session.") and see how the therapist responds (healthy response: "I can understand why that would be confusing. I'm sorry for not holding the boundary on time in a consistent way. Would you rather try to reestablish trust in our therapist and client relationship and let me demonstrate that consistency going forward, or would you feel more comfortable seeing a different therapist?"). If the boundary can be reestablished, it might be possible to discuss the attraction. But I don't know enough about this therapist to gauge how capable she is of responding appropriately to the time question, let alone the attraction issue.
posted by theotherdurassister at 12:52 PM on October 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
My therapist of a decade has gone over time fewer than 5 times, in hundreds of sessions, and never by more than about 15 minutes. And it was always for a specific reason, like I was sobbing and needed help calming down, or we were in the middle of talking about something discrete that he wanted to wrap up, or I needed paperwork filled out and we needed a few more minutes to finish it. And he's always asked me first if that was okay and informed me how much extra time we were going to take. Just letting therapy sessions be of indeterminate length is bad, both because it shows a lack of boundaries by the therapist, and because it means you never know how much time and space you have. When you start, you should know how long you have, so that you can decide what you want to talk about and how you want to use the time available to you.
That's the first thing. The second thing is the crush. (I'm going to assume, for purposes of this answer, that it's unrequited, and that you're reading into this something that isn't there. If your therapist is actually flirting with you, that's wildly inappropriate and needs to be reported.) If you have a crush on your therapist, they can't be an effective therapist to you. Because when you have a crush on someone, you want them to like you, and so you're going to be tailoring what you say and do towards impressing them, letting them get to know the parts of you that you like, trying to gain positive attention from them. In therapy, for it to really work, you have to be able to show the therapist the parts of yourself that you don't like, the things that are unimpressive and shameful and that make you feel bad about yourself. You can't do that with someone you have a crush on. The therapist should have shut this down a while ago, and I don't trust her if she hasn't.
I really think you need a new therapist, and that you should specifically tell people in intake sessions about the way this therapeutic relationship has gone. I don't have a strong opinion about whether it's worth discussing with your current therapist why you're leaving, except to say that if she wants to, that's not something you should have to pay for, because it would be for her benefit, not yours. I wish you all the best as you continue this journey.
posted by decathecting at 2:42 PM on October 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
That's the first thing. The second thing is the crush. (I'm going to assume, for purposes of this answer, that it's unrequited, and that you're reading into this something that isn't there. If your therapist is actually flirting with you, that's wildly inappropriate and needs to be reported.) If you have a crush on your therapist, they can't be an effective therapist to you. Because when you have a crush on someone, you want them to like you, and so you're going to be tailoring what you say and do towards impressing them, letting them get to know the parts of you that you like, trying to gain positive attention from them. In therapy, for it to really work, you have to be able to show the therapist the parts of yourself that you don't like, the things that are unimpressive and shameful and that make you feel bad about yourself. You can't do that with someone you have a crush on. The therapist should have shut this down a while ago, and I don't trust her if she hasn't.
I really think you need a new therapist, and that you should specifically tell people in intake sessions about the way this therapeutic relationship has gone. I don't have a strong opinion about whether it's worth discussing with your current therapist why you're leaving, except to say that if she wants to, that's not something you should have to pay for, because it would be for her benefit, not yours. I wish you all the best as you continue this journey.
posted by decathecting at 2:42 PM on October 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
I had a therapist who routinely let sessions run 15-20 minutes longer. He also spoke about us having a 'special' relationship. It took me years to understand that we has actually using me to stroke his ego and these were classic narcissistic abuse moves. With the long sessions I felt a sense of obligation towards him, and when I told him it made me uncomfortable, he snapped angrily at me that that was his responsibility and not mine. Yikes. In the end, he ended up causing a lot of wreckage in my life by subtly undermining my own sense of agency and self-confidence.
posted by PercussivePaul at 6:07 PM on October 13, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by PercussivePaul at 6:07 PM on October 13, 2022 [4 favorites]
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posted by Oyéah at 8:22 PM on October 12, 2022 [19 favorites]