Negotiation: Etsy sapphire price-hike edition
October 11, 2022 10:11 PM Subscribe
My partner has just agreed with me that a sapphire I adore and that we can afford would be great for The One Ring I want to wear for the rest of my life to look at and think of my beloved. It seems that, in the past couple of weeks, the Etsy seller has increased the price from $350 to more than $2k.
I want this seller to have health care and take nice vacations and retire! But this is a huge change, and I would really like to ask in a respectful way... what caused the price increase? whether he would be willing to negotiate? ...nothing, because I should accept that this is his price and that I should walk away if I can't or won't pay it? Experienced gem-buyers, jewelers, and Etsy sellers/buyers of MetaFilter, your help would be much appreciated!
Background: Based on AskMe advice, I decided to look for a sapphire for my one ring, and have to date invested probably 200+ hours in searching the whole internet to find a stone that feels like a friend. I was looking for something greenish-yellowish, a little included or cloudy or opalescent, with a low profile, not mined under duress... as you can imagine, the pickings are slim. (Surprisingly, there are tons of gorgeous clear, sparkly, and tall stones in green-yellow!) I found a stone which is almost everything I was looking for: an almost flourescent yellow-green (heat-treated), perfectly imperfect, short like me, mined and cut in Montana on a family mine, great shop reviews, and all of $350. It makes me *feel* happy and warm to look at it.
I asked my partner to weigh in on it, compared to a couple of other stones, but we have been intensely busy, and he only gave me his favorites ratings last night. Hooray! He loves it, too!
Tonight, I go to Etsy, and the price of the stone is now *seven times higher* than it was before. Gak. A different stone that was $1250 has not changed price; another stone that was previously inexpensive ($200? $300?) has now been increased to more than $1500.
I search his listings: he hasn't sold a sapphire in a few months - the last one he sold was larger than the one I'm interested in and sold for $270. He has had and still has fancier, clear-er, more-sparkly stones for about $800 a carat, which seems consistent with prices from other sellers of Montana sapphires - this stone is 1.9c, so he's now charging 25% more per carat than for fancier, more-marketable stones. Confusion.
I search around: no other Montana sapphires in my extensive favorites list have changed prices - instead, I am receiving notices of sales on sapphires from other sellers. Alas, I do not want anyone else's sapphires.
What to ask, if anything, of this seller? I feel a strong urge to write to the seller and ask *something*. I don't want to ask for the original price - obviously something has changed, and I can swing something higher - but I don't know how much I *would* be willing to pay, because I am now very attached to this particular hunk of rock, and there really aren't any others like it that I have found. I also feel gross about writing to ask about negotiation at all, because this is someone's livelihood, and I dislike asking for them to take less money because I don't want to pay seven times what I thought I would need to for a frivolous thing I want.
Ask for negotiation? My first instinct is to write the seller and tell the exact story up until now: "Hi! I was excited about this stone, now my partner is, too, we see the price has increased dramatically, would you be willing to negotiate on price?"
Ask for information? My partner thinks that I shouldn't show my hand on being interested, because that will just encourage the seller to dig in and demand the new, higher price. Argh this idea of capitalism makes me want to scream, but I see his point. My partner thinks I should write something more like, "Hi, I see the price of this stone increased dramatically in the past couple of weeks - can you tell me what's changed?" (This kind of approach feels really adversarial to me, which in turn makes *me* freeze up, but I can acknowledge that the seller *would* be incentivized to dig in and refuse to negotiate if he knew I wanted this stone.)
Ask... nothing? Should I even ask? If I'm not comfortable with paying $2k for the stone that makes me happy, should I just walk away? (I know that I don't like this option because no other stones have felt quite as good, and I have spent so much time trying to find this one that I am pretty fucking tuckered out on ring-work.)
Ask for a specific price? This would also be good to think through if I ask for negotiation and he says yes. I feel at sea: how do I negotiate for something whose price has changed so dramatically with no extra information whatsoever? In theory, I have a job and I could pay $2k, although it would hurt and I would feel not-great about paying that much for a stone. But again, I want to be paid for my work, and I want to pay others fairly for theirs. How do I figure out what a reasonable price is, when this stone is not standardized by color, clarity, etc. like diamonds are? GAAAAAAAKKKKKK
Thank you in advance for advice!
Background: Based on AskMe advice, I decided to look for a sapphire for my one ring, and have to date invested probably 200+ hours in searching the whole internet to find a stone that feels like a friend. I was looking for something greenish-yellowish, a little included or cloudy or opalescent, with a low profile, not mined under duress... as you can imagine, the pickings are slim. (Surprisingly, there are tons of gorgeous clear, sparkly, and tall stones in green-yellow!) I found a stone which is almost everything I was looking for: an almost flourescent yellow-green (heat-treated), perfectly imperfect, short like me, mined and cut in Montana on a family mine, great shop reviews, and all of $350. It makes me *feel* happy and warm to look at it.
I asked my partner to weigh in on it, compared to a couple of other stones, but we have been intensely busy, and he only gave me his favorites ratings last night. Hooray! He loves it, too!
Tonight, I go to Etsy, and the price of the stone is now *seven times higher* than it was before. Gak. A different stone that was $1250 has not changed price; another stone that was previously inexpensive ($200? $300?) has now been increased to more than $1500.
I search his listings: he hasn't sold a sapphire in a few months - the last one he sold was larger than the one I'm interested in and sold for $270. He has had and still has fancier, clear-er, more-sparkly stones for about $800 a carat, which seems consistent with prices from other sellers of Montana sapphires - this stone is 1.9c, so he's now charging 25% more per carat than for fancier, more-marketable stones. Confusion.
I search around: no other Montana sapphires in my extensive favorites list have changed prices - instead, I am receiving notices of sales on sapphires from other sellers. Alas, I do not want anyone else's sapphires.
What to ask, if anything, of this seller? I feel a strong urge to write to the seller and ask *something*. I don't want to ask for the original price - obviously something has changed, and I can swing something higher - but I don't know how much I *would* be willing to pay, because I am now very attached to this particular hunk of rock, and there really aren't any others like it that I have found. I also feel gross about writing to ask about negotiation at all, because this is someone's livelihood, and I dislike asking for them to take less money because I don't want to pay seven times what I thought I would need to for a frivolous thing I want.
Ask for negotiation? My first instinct is to write the seller and tell the exact story up until now: "Hi! I was excited about this stone, now my partner is, too, we see the price has increased dramatically, would you be willing to negotiate on price?"
Ask for information? My partner thinks that I shouldn't show my hand on being interested, because that will just encourage the seller to dig in and demand the new, higher price. Argh this idea of capitalism makes me want to scream, but I see his point. My partner thinks I should write something more like, "Hi, I see the price of this stone increased dramatically in the past couple of weeks - can you tell me what's changed?" (This kind of approach feels really adversarial to me, which in turn makes *me* freeze up, but I can acknowledge that the seller *would* be incentivized to dig in and refuse to negotiate if he knew I wanted this stone.)
Ask... nothing? Should I even ask? If I'm not comfortable with paying $2k for the stone that makes me happy, should I just walk away? (I know that I don't like this option because no other stones have felt quite as good, and I have spent so much time trying to find this one that I am pretty fucking tuckered out on ring-work.)
Ask for a specific price? This would also be good to think through if I ask for negotiation and he says yes. I feel at sea: how do I negotiate for something whose price has changed so dramatically with no extra information whatsoever? In theory, I have a job and I could pay $2k, although it would hurt and I would feel not-great about paying that much for a stone. But again, I want to be paid for my work, and I want to pay others fairly for theirs. How do I figure out what a reasonable price is, when this stone is not standardized by color, clarity, etc. like diamonds are? GAAAAAAAKKKKKK
Thank you in advance for advice!
Did you put it into your shopping cart? Sometimes when I do that (and then don't purchase right away), I'll receive a coupon for that item the next day -- which tells me that the Etsy sellers _know_ when their stuff is in your cart. If your gem supplier guy isn't super savvy, he might have gone the opposite route.
Which is his right, but also not my favorite.
You can always start with a sincere question - just because he gives you a reason, or doesn't, won't commit you to any particular course.
posted by amtho at 11:12 PM on October 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
Which is his right, but also not my favorite.
You can always start with a sincere question - just because he gives you a reason, or doesn't, won't commit you to any particular course.
posted by amtho at 11:12 PM on October 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
I don't think Etsy is abusing cookies, (un?)fortunately. If they were, I'd be paying through the nose for things! Sellers can, however, see favorites and items in carts. Sometimes this results in discounts. On occasion it may lead to targeted price gouging, but I'd more expect that from a seller who's new and clueless, rather than highly rated.
My first thought would be that the seller simply reevaluated the item. If you can't find anything else like it, that does suggest it can command a somewhat high price, even if the stone isn't worth much in theory. Another possibility is that the seller has put the stone on reserve. Rather than slapping *RESERVED, DO NOT BUY* on the listing, or whatever, sometimes sellers just jack the price way up to discourage people from ordering it (because inevitably, someone will blow right past *DO NOT BUY*). I'd almost lean toward this just because the increase in price is so remarkable.
But no theory will help as much as simply asking. I do agree with your partner that you shouldn't immediately show your hand. I wouldn't go into this with an adversarial mindset, necessarily, but there's just no reason to open a possible negotiation that way. Your partner's suggested message sounds fine to me. You can soften it a bit if you like: "Hi, I see the price of this stone increased dramatically in the past couple of weeks - just curious what's changed? Cheers!" But either way, the seller operates a business and this is a business question...there's nothing weird about asking, I promise.
posted by desert outpost at 12:16 AM on October 12, 2022 [7 favorites]
My first thought would be that the seller simply reevaluated the item. If you can't find anything else like it, that does suggest it can command a somewhat high price, even if the stone isn't worth much in theory. Another possibility is that the seller has put the stone on reserve. Rather than slapping *RESERVED, DO NOT BUY* on the listing, or whatever, sometimes sellers just jack the price way up to discourage people from ordering it (because inevitably, someone will blow right past *DO NOT BUY*). I'd almost lean toward this just because the increase in price is so remarkable.
But no theory will help as much as simply asking. I do agree with your partner that you shouldn't immediately show your hand. I wouldn't go into this with an adversarial mindset, necessarily, but there's just no reason to open a possible negotiation that way. Your partner's suggested message sounds fine to me. You can soften it a bit if you like: "Hi, I see the price of this stone increased dramatically in the past couple of weeks - just curious what's changed? Cheers!" But either way, the seller operates a business and this is a business question...there's nothing weird about asking, I promise.
posted by desert outpost at 12:16 AM on October 12, 2022 [7 favorites]
I also hope it’s just a cookie/in-cart thing, but if you need to contact them, I like your script better than your husband’s. I don’t think there’s any way to contact them about the ring without appearing interested, unfortunately.
posted by michaelh at 12:16 AM on October 12, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by michaelh at 12:16 AM on October 12, 2022 [3 favorites]
Hi, I sell on Etsy, and unfortunately there's no "in cart increase option" — prices are set, with variable offers for discounting/sales/favourites etc. It would be a a manual price increase. Think desert outpost has it with the reserved line of thinking. Or "hey I've mispriced this". As a seller, I really would not appreciate an adversarial message — lead with curiosity and kindness, it really does make the world a better place!
posted by teststrip at 12:26 AM on October 12, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by teststrip at 12:26 AM on October 12, 2022 [10 favorites]
Your partner’s script sounds totally fine to me, not at all adversarial - I’d go with that and take it from there.
posted by penguin pie at 2:26 AM on October 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by penguin pie at 2:26 AM on October 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
Seems entirely possible to me that they were lowering the price and accidentally typed 2800 instead of 280 or whatever.
posted by rockindata at 3:27 AM on October 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by rockindata at 3:27 AM on October 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
Always be ready to leave the table empty handed. That's proper negotiation.
You are an interested buyer. That's good! The market for nonessential items has been crazy, and having a customer walk up to the counter is encouraging.
The seller may be... just a seller.
Or they may be a person with a lifetime of training and experience in this field. They may appreciate passing on some of their knowledge. They may talk your ear off with very little encouragement.
It can be rude to mine them for information and then ghost them.
You are the buyer, so it's your call. The impersonal nature of online sales gives you the ability to test the market and get feedback from others before you reach for your wallet.
So if you are slightly interested, reach out.
Be cautious about stories that are too good to be true -- salespersons are hired to move the merchandise.
And if you want it, buy the stone.
I'm pretty much a "take it or leave it" person, but my husband enjoys negotiating. You could set a budget and have a friend do the dealing.
Don't show your hand.
Let the seller do the talking.
Don't burn your bridges behind you, since you may want to work with this seller again.
Just remember -- there were other stones in the ground just like it, and in a month you may find a better one at half the price you paid.
Good luck on your project.
posted by TrishaU at 4:21 AM on October 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
You are an interested buyer. That's good! The market for nonessential items has been crazy, and having a customer walk up to the counter is encouraging.
The seller may be... just a seller.
Or they may be a person with a lifetime of training and experience in this field. They may appreciate passing on some of their knowledge. They may talk your ear off with very little encouragement.
It can be rude to mine them for information and then ghost them.
You are the buyer, so it's your call. The impersonal nature of online sales gives you the ability to test the market and get feedback from others before you reach for your wallet.
So if you are slightly interested, reach out.
Be cautious about stories that are too good to be true -- salespersons are hired to move the merchandise.
And if you want it, buy the stone.
I'm pretty much a "take it or leave it" person, but my husband enjoys negotiating. You could set a budget and have a friend do the dealing.
Don't show your hand.
Let the seller do the talking.
Don't burn your bridges behind you, since you may want to work with this seller again.
Just remember -- there were other stones in the ground just like it, and in a month you may find a better one at half the price you paid.
Good luck on your project.
posted by TrishaU at 4:21 AM on October 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
It is not adversarial to ask a question about an item’s price, and if you’re sending a message about an item it is pretty clear you’re Interested. Just use desert outpost’s script and ask the question.
You’re overthinking/ruminating on this a lot - if this doesn’t work out and you find a different stone you like just buy it and skip the rankings. At this price point it’s not a life changing purchase and it sounds like you’re optimizing for personal preference rather than objective value.
posted by jeoc at 4:40 AM on October 12, 2022 [3 favorites]
You’re overthinking/ruminating on this a lot - if this doesn’t work out and you find a different stone you like just buy it and skip the rankings. At this price point it’s not a life changing purchase and it sounds like you’re optimizing for personal preference rather than objective value.
posted by jeoc at 4:40 AM on October 12, 2022 [3 favorites]
If he already has this stone, his costs for this item have not increased, even if it's market value has. Etsy is literally a marketplace. I would straight-up say "Hi, I was looking at this listing a few weeks ago and noticed today the cost has increased from $350 to $2000. Is there a reason for this increase? The new price is far outside my budget but i would be interested in buying at the original $350 pricepoint."
posted by DarlingBri at 4:51 AM on October 12, 2022 [34 favorites]
posted by DarlingBri at 4:51 AM on October 12, 2022 [34 favorites]
AirBnB has a "dynamic pricing" for hosts that as a user, I do very much resent. I would not at all be surprised if something similar is going on here, even if not systemic. Stop looking at it for two months, have a friend far away check it later, and cross your fingers.
posted by Dashy at 5:27 AM on October 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Dashy at 5:27 AM on October 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
I agree with others here that there is no way to avoid “showing your hand,” nobody is messaging Etsy sellers about price hikes unless they were interested in buying the item.
The seller has all the power here and they aren’t under any obligation to lower the price for you, but it can’t hurt to tell them you have your heart set and would be grateful for a negotiated price. I’d still be prepared to pay more than $350, though.
posted by cakelite at 7:26 AM on October 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
The seller has all the power here and they aren’t under any obligation to lower the price for you, but it can’t hurt to tell them you have your heart set and would be grateful for a negotiated price. I’d still be prepared to pay more than $350, though.
posted by cakelite at 7:26 AM on October 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
I would go middle ground between your two statements, and say something along the lines of “Hi there, I have been looking at this ring for [X] time, and this is it- the [engagement/wedding/your word here] ring that I’ve been waiting for. After talking to my partner, I was ready to puchass see that the price has has gone up from X to Y. Would you be willing to honor the original price of X? [Add anything else, if applicable, here] Many thanks, [Your Name].” I think it adds a nice bit of sentiment and ingest, which being straightforward that you’re looking to purchase it at the original price, and not at the inflated price. Be prepared to spend a bit more, and if you are, you may need to negotiate, but walk away if the price is wrong, or the situation is weird.
posted by Champagne Supernova at 7:59 AM on October 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Champagne Supernova at 7:59 AM on October 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
Trying from an incognito window or another browser is a good idea.
If that doesn’t work, your partner’s script is fine and in no way adversarial.
Generally though, you seem stressed out by this process. Why don’t you ask your partner to handle the transaction for you?
posted by caek at 9:37 AM on October 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
If that doesn’t work, your partner’s script is fine and in no way adversarial.
Generally though, you seem stressed out by this process. Why don’t you ask your partner to handle the transaction for you?
posted by caek at 9:37 AM on October 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
DarlingBri has it - it's not adversary to just state facts - you were interested in it at the previous price point, now it's outside your price point. Then put the ball in their court in terms of seeing if there is room for negotiation.
It's not adversarial in that you are reaching out in the hopes of giving the seller $ - which is in their interest!
posted by coffeecat at 12:17 PM on October 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
It's not adversarial in that you are reaching out in the hopes of giving the seller $ - which is in their interest!
posted by coffeecat at 12:17 PM on October 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
why not just say you really love that stone but your budget is in the (whatever it used to cost) range, and do they have anything similar in stock that's not listed online yet? that way they can lower the price right back down if they want to make an immediate sale, but you won't seem demanding or confrontational. and it's a reasonable question anyway.
there is also the marketplace factor - sometimes sellers will make you a surprising deal if you agree to purchase from them directly so etsy can't take a cut. they are obviously not allowed to propose this, but sometimes they do. you shouldn't suggest that yourself but see if the seller has their own website anywhere. or if they sell on multiple platforms, see if the prices are the same on all of them. just in case.
(also - gemstones are not my field but in the field that is mine, sometimes things don't sell because the price is actually too low. and people who are experts then get suspicious about where it came from, is it really what you say it is, and so on. so raising the price after nothing's been selling may be connected to that?)
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:42 PM on October 12, 2022 [6 favorites]
there is also the marketplace factor - sometimes sellers will make you a surprising deal if you agree to purchase from them directly so etsy can't take a cut. they are obviously not allowed to propose this, but sometimes they do. you shouldn't suggest that yourself but see if the seller has their own website anywhere. or if they sell on multiple platforms, see if the prices are the same on all of them. just in case.
(also - gemstones are not my field but in the field that is mine, sometimes things don't sell because the price is actually too low. and people who are experts then get suspicious about where it came from, is it really what you say it is, and so on. so raising the price after nothing's been selling may be connected to that?)
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:42 PM on October 12, 2022 [6 favorites]
Just as an FYI from a sometimes-Etsy-seller, Etsy doesn't have any kind of dynamic pricing options. Sellers set fixed prices and there aren't options available that would make these prices change based on logins/favorites/etc. There are options to send coupons based on favoriting items or having them in a cart, but those still won't change the list price. This price change did come from the seller for whatever reason (and I'm with those who say reaching out to ask, non-adversarially, is perfectly reasonable)
posted by augustimagination at 11:05 PM on October 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by augustimagination at 11:05 PM on October 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
The entire reason to have a One Ring is to have a place to invest good, positive feelings. No matter what the stone looks like, the most important thing is that it can function in that role. It should either begin its time with you neutrally, or with positive associations.
DarlingBri has a great script -- not only does it seem to give you a very good chance to close the sale, but more importantly, is unlikely to disturb the "story" around this stone. If it works out, it will feel like it was meant to be yours, and a large community (MeFi, the seller) worked together to get it to you. You will be happy every time you look at it, not just because it is small and cloudy and yellow-green and represents your partnership, but also because it is a reminder of a situation that resolved in a happy way.
The last thing you want is something on your hand that reminds you of a bad transaction, even if its physical qualities meet your spec. So don't send anything that makes you feel uncomfortable. If this particular stone does not work out, there will be another, more worthy, without this baggage. Whole lot of rocks in the world!
posted by apparently at 5:29 AM on October 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
DarlingBri has a great script -- not only does it seem to give you a very good chance to close the sale, but more importantly, is unlikely to disturb the "story" around this stone. If it works out, it will feel like it was meant to be yours, and a large community (MeFi, the seller) worked together to get it to you. You will be happy every time you look at it, not just because it is small and cloudy and yellow-green and represents your partnership, but also because it is a reminder of a situation that resolved in a happy way.
The last thing you want is something on your hand that reminds you of a bad transaction, even if its physical qualities meet your spec. So don't send anything that makes you feel uncomfortable. If this particular stone does not work out, there will be another, more worthy, without this baggage. Whole lot of rocks in the world!
posted by apparently at 5:29 AM on October 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
Please let us know how it goes! I feel invested in this stone now.
posted by teststrip at 10:58 AM on October 13, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by teststrip at 10:58 AM on October 13, 2022 [11 favorites]
Response by poster: A long-overdue update: I have hemmed and hawed and equivocated and finally got up the courage to write this seller a couple of weeks ago. He took a couple of days to think about it, but then said he would give it to me for $600. !!! I bought it immediately.
As many wise folks here pointed out, there are many rocks in the ground! When this one arrived in the mail, it turned out that the color isn’t what I thought it would be. Gak. But nothing ventured, nothing gained! The search continues.
I’m really grateful to everyone who commented - I thought for a long time that I might not ever find a partner, and both love/long for pretty things and occasionally feel $&@“?! with myself for wanting them. With all my friends having gotten married years ago, I feel a bit awkward and alone trying to figure out what would be nice and how to make it happen. Being able to ask questions here that I don’t feel I can ask my mom, my sister, my married friends - it means a lot. Thanks again.
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 4:43 PM on December 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
As many wise folks here pointed out, there are many rocks in the ground! When this one arrived in the mail, it turned out that the color isn’t what I thought it would be. Gak. But nothing ventured, nothing gained! The search continues.
I’m really grateful to everyone who commented - I thought for a long time that I might not ever find a partner, and both love/long for pretty things and occasionally feel $&@“?! with myself for wanting them. With all my friends having gotten married years ago, I feel a bit awkward and alone trying to figure out what would be nice and how to make it happen. Being able to ask questions here that I don’t feel I can ask my mom, my sister, my married friends - it means a lot. Thanks again.
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 4:43 PM on December 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by stray thoughts at 10:52 PM on October 11, 2022 [16 favorites]