One-on-one anti-discrimination workshop???
October 10, 2022 11:12 PM Subscribe
With a few relationships in my life now I've been stuck on a stage where I need to talk to the other person about social justice issues that affect our relationship but I get burnt out or upset if they keep pushing back. These are best friends/romantic partners level of relationships and they are otherwise safe and supportive, but we hit an intimacy wall at this point because I feel like I can't talk to them about things that affect me and have them support me. Are there groups or organisations that I can outsource this kind of 'education' to? What are they called in your area?
Example: New partner has railed against 'wokeness' and diversity hires before and when I tried to tease it out we really got nowhere. Old partner ranted on occasion about affirmative action. It really feels like they see whiteness and maleness as default and anything else as intruding on their space unfairly (not that I would say this to their faces). As a POC woman who's bad at communicating and confrontations these conversations are really upsetting and I would prefer they have this conversation with someone else who's more articulate than me and better equipped for talking points.
They're otherwise actively against racism/misogyny and would defend me against obviously racist or misogynistic remarks...
Example: New partner has railed against 'wokeness' and diversity hires before and when I tried to tease it out we really got nowhere. Old partner ranted on occasion about affirmative action. It really feels like they see whiteness and maleness as default and anything else as intruding on their space unfairly (not that I would say this to their faces). As a POC woman who's bad at communicating and confrontations these conversations are really upsetting and I would prefer they have this conversation with someone else who's more articulate than me and better equipped for talking points.
They're otherwise actively against racism/misogyny and would defend me against obviously racist or misogynistic remarks...
I can’t speak to the efficacy or openness to this organization for your friends, especially without knowing the people that you’re trying to communicate with, but I have taken their Asian Diaspora workshop which was amazing, thoughtful, and lovely. Both/And sometimes has workshops designed for white folks — I saw an interesting one around shame resilience that might be helpful, but I think that the types of people going to these workshops might be a little further down their journey than your new partner seems to be. They also have a coaching program that I don’t have experience with, but you could see if they’re interested in it or learning more. There are probably more organizations too, but I haven’t really had to look further for my own work.
More of an aside:
My partner got more education around this by going back for his masters in education, so structured programs that they are interested and motivated to do, that also have a strong social justice component would be my preferred method, actually — we really couldn’t have productive conversations around social justice and I tabled them for a while until he had a few classes. I’m so glad that I did wait and didn’t take on too much of the educational work and I don’t think he would be ready for any of the workshops above before.
I guess I am weary because this stuff works out if they’re more self-motivated to learn, but you sound so burned out! I wonder if finding a group of folks for you might be more effective and is more within your control.
But good luck and hopefully they’re curious and more open to these kinds of programs than this internet stranger had anticipated!
posted by sincerely yours at 12:46 AM on October 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
More of an aside:
My partner got more education around this by going back for his masters in education, so structured programs that they are interested and motivated to do, that also have a strong social justice component would be my preferred method, actually — we really couldn’t have productive conversations around social justice and I tabled them for a while until he had a few classes. I’m so glad that I did wait and didn’t take on too much of the educational work and I don’t think he would be ready for any of the workshops above before.
I guess I am weary because this stuff works out if they’re more self-motivated to learn, but you sound so burned out! I wonder if finding a group of folks for you might be more effective and is more within your control.
But good luck and hopefully they’re curious and more open to these kinds of programs than this internet stranger had anticipated!
posted by sincerely yours at 12:46 AM on October 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
Beware of gaslighting yourself. People who use the word “woke” in a perjorative sense actually are racist. And having a POC domestic partner isn’t a sign someone isn’t racist, especially when they routinely make their racialized partner feel terrible in convos about racism.
People who are “actively against racism” don’t do that. They listen and try to learn and then also take initiative to learn more themselves rather than their racialized partner having to take on the labours of teaching them and protecting their egos and feeling bad.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 3:22 AM on October 11, 2022 [55 favorites]
People who are “actively against racism” don’t do that. They listen and try to learn and then also take initiative to learn more themselves rather than their racialized partner having to take on the labours of teaching them and protecting their egos and feeling bad.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 3:22 AM on October 11, 2022 [55 favorites]
You didn’t specify gender, but Guys who wax poetically about their non-sexist or racist bonafides are often dramatically covering for their misogyny and racism that they’re aware of and do not fix for whatever reason.
posted by limbicdigest at 4:33 AM on October 11, 2022 [14 favorites]
posted by limbicdigest at 4:33 AM on October 11, 2022 [14 favorites]
It really feels like they see whiteness and maleness as default and anything else as intruding on their space unfairly (not that I would say this to their faces).
That is interesting that you don’t feel safe enough in the relationship to speak the truth to them. Walking on eggshells - especially when your close friend/partner is literally throwing eggs at you! - is not healthy. They may be lovely in other ways, but being openly racist when you are a POC makes them the classic poop milkshake.
posted by saucysault at 7:33 AM on October 11, 2022 [10 favorites]
That is interesting that you don’t feel safe enough in the relationship to speak the truth to them. Walking on eggshells - especially when your close friend/partner is literally throwing eggs at you! - is not healthy. They may be lovely in other ways, but being openly racist when you are a POC makes them the classic poop milkshake.
posted by saucysault at 7:33 AM on October 11, 2022 [10 favorites]
This is something a couple's therapist could do - not that they'll do a diversity training, but they can help ensure that you're both communicating/listening to each other.
I am a professor who often teaches what gets termed "hot topics" in diversity trainings. I have taken a number of pedagogical trainings on how to ensure these are productive conversations. One key caveat is that nobody knows how to do this perfectly - the agreed upon approach had changed since I did my first training 2012.
First off, try to depersonalize it - because most of the times someone says a problematic argument, it's not actually their argument, it's something they absorbed without questioning it. So in the case of your partner, say "Yeah, there are a lot of people these days - even many Democrats - who are making arguments against 'wokeness' and diversity hires. Were did you hear this argument? And what evidence were they drawing on?" Most likely in this case, their source will be not someone in HR, not someone who studies labor economics, but...an opinion writer, a comedian, a politician, i.e. not actually a particularly authoritative source. You might ask "Ok, so can you think of any reasons why that source might benefit from exaggeration or even lying?" as a way to get them to consider how the different genres of their sources impact the content of them - i.e. opinion writers are looking for "clicks" and nothing does that better than getting people riled up, many comedians will bend reality if it makes for a better joke, etc.
Then, once you've destabilized a bit their confidence in their sources, you can start providing some of your own info - like, you can ask them - "ok, name a company that you think is doing too much diversity hires - now let's look at how many POC employees they actually have right now. And let's look at who is on the board of the directors." Or you can bring to their attention racial wealth gaps, earnings gaps, unemployment rates between races, etc. Here you can also perhaps admit that affirmative action isn't perfect (here I'm thinking of critiques that historically it's mostly benefited white women and rich POC) - ideally we'd have a free and equal society and it wouldn't be necessary - but as the data shows, we're obviously not there yet, and affirmative action/diversity hires are one tool to help us get there.
And then, it's possible to get people to consider how their identities might have produced these misreadings of reality - but if you start here - i.e. "You don't understand because you're a white man" - they will almost certainly get defensive and shut down. I find it helps if you can also be empathetic for why they might have fallen for such arguments - like, if your partner is under 40, he's likely economically struggling more than his parents were at his age - that's not because of diversity hirings obviously, it's because of growing wealth inequality which is screwing over the majority of society, but gee, "wokeness" sure does make a convenient and effective scapegoat. I mean, there's a reason anti-wokeness seems to make up a good portion of FoxNews coverage. Then you might see if he'd read and discuss with you Keri Merritt's book "Masterless Men: Poor Whites and Slavery in the Antebellum South" which looks at how the white elite has long used racism/racial boogeymen to make working class white cling to racial solidarity rather than potential class solidarity with POC.
All that said - this is work, and something I only do either when I'm getting paid to do so or if it's with a close family member or old friend. I wouldn't do this with a new partner, unless they were a very quick learner.
posted by coffeecat at 9:37 AM on October 11, 2022 [3 favorites]
I am a professor who often teaches what gets termed "hot topics" in diversity trainings. I have taken a number of pedagogical trainings on how to ensure these are productive conversations. One key caveat is that nobody knows how to do this perfectly - the agreed upon approach had changed since I did my first training 2012.
First off, try to depersonalize it - because most of the times someone says a problematic argument, it's not actually their argument, it's something they absorbed without questioning it. So in the case of your partner, say "Yeah, there are a lot of people these days - even many Democrats - who are making arguments against 'wokeness' and diversity hires. Were did you hear this argument? And what evidence were they drawing on?" Most likely in this case, their source will be not someone in HR, not someone who studies labor economics, but...an opinion writer, a comedian, a politician, i.e. not actually a particularly authoritative source. You might ask "Ok, so can you think of any reasons why that source might benefit from exaggeration or even lying?" as a way to get them to consider how the different genres of their sources impact the content of them - i.e. opinion writers are looking for "clicks" and nothing does that better than getting people riled up, many comedians will bend reality if it makes for a better joke, etc.
Then, once you've destabilized a bit their confidence in their sources, you can start providing some of your own info - like, you can ask them - "ok, name a company that you think is doing too much diversity hires - now let's look at how many POC employees they actually have right now. And let's look at who is on the board of the directors." Or you can bring to their attention racial wealth gaps, earnings gaps, unemployment rates between races, etc. Here you can also perhaps admit that affirmative action isn't perfect (here I'm thinking of critiques that historically it's mostly benefited white women and rich POC) - ideally we'd have a free and equal society and it wouldn't be necessary - but as the data shows, we're obviously not there yet, and affirmative action/diversity hires are one tool to help us get there.
And then, it's possible to get people to consider how their identities might have produced these misreadings of reality - but if you start here - i.e. "You don't understand because you're a white man" - they will almost certainly get defensive and shut down. I find it helps if you can also be empathetic for why they might have fallen for such arguments - like, if your partner is under 40, he's likely economically struggling more than his parents were at his age - that's not because of diversity hirings obviously, it's because of growing wealth inequality which is screwing over the majority of society, but gee, "wokeness" sure does make a convenient and effective scapegoat. I mean, there's a reason anti-wokeness seems to make up a good portion of FoxNews coverage. Then you might see if he'd read and discuss with you Keri Merritt's book "Masterless Men: Poor Whites and Slavery in the Antebellum South" which looks at how the white elite has long used racism/racial boogeymen to make working class white cling to racial solidarity rather than potential class solidarity with POC.
All that said - this is work, and something I only do either when I'm getting paid to do so or if it's with a close family member or old friend. I wouldn't do this with a new partner, unless they were a very quick learner.
posted by coffeecat at 9:37 AM on October 11, 2022 [3 favorites]
New partner has railed against 'wokeness' and diversity hires before and when I tried to tease it out we really got nowhere. Old partner ranted on occasion about affirmative action.
I am a white woman in my 40s in a multiracial family, and these would be deal breakers for me in any close relationship. I hear this kind of talk in some professional contexts, from the cranky old dudes (who sometimes aren't even all that old). In non-work contexts, I sometimes heard this sort of thing from, say, acquaintances of friends, or a friend's parent neighbor, that sort of thing. I have a strong filter for this kind of talk for anyone involved in my life intimately (whether that's physical or emotional intimacy), because I don't want to be around people like this, for my sake and also because I don't think I can trust them around my family members who are people of color. And I don't think this is also true:
They're otherwise actively against racism/misogyny
I get that they might say, "I'm not racist! I just think hiring should be colorblind." But they haven't really thought critically about these issues if they're parroting right-wing talking points about wokeness and affirmative action.
I'm really sorry that you're in a situation where you feel like you have to teach these people some really basic anti-racist principles. Is it possible that these white men are using their relationship with you to prove their anti-racist credentials? "I can't be racist because Anon wouldn't date me" gives them a lot of room not to interrogate their own beliefs.
White people have so much racism to unlearn. You aren't obligated to teach this to anyone, though, and especially not intimate partners. This is a huge red flag for your relationships, especially because it doesn't sound like they are open to learning. Your lack of ability to communicate or confront around this is NOT the problem. I suspect if you felt like they were truly curious about your perspective and open to learning, you'd be a lot more comfortable with the nuances here.
I don't exactly mean #notallwhitepeople, but I can say there are lots of white folks who may do or say something racist but are trying to be better, and would definitely not talk about wokeness and affirmative action as problems rather than solutions. Tolerating racist rants is not the price of admission to have a relationship with any given white person. Yes, we can be exhausting and racist and annoying, but, like, not always in that super deliberate and gross way.
I want better for you, and I think you want better for yourself.
posted by bluedaisy at 11:54 AM on October 11, 2022 [7 favorites]
I am a white woman in my 40s in a multiracial family, and these would be deal breakers for me in any close relationship. I hear this kind of talk in some professional contexts, from the cranky old dudes (who sometimes aren't even all that old). In non-work contexts, I sometimes heard this sort of thing from, say, acquaintances of friends, or a friend's parent neighbor, that sort of thing. I have a strong filter for this kind of talk for anyone involved in my life intimately (whether that's physical or emotional intimacy), because I don't want to be around people like this, for my sake and also because I don't think I can trust them around my family members who are people of color. And I don't think this is also true:
They're otherwise actively against racism/misogyny
I get that they might say, "I'm not racist! I just think hiring should be colorblind." But they haven't really thought critically about these issues if they're parroting right-wing talking points about wokeness and affirmative action.
I'm really sorry that you're in a situation where you feel like you have to teach these people some really basic anti-racist principles. Is it possible that these white men are using their relationship with you to prove their anti-racist credentials? "I can't be racist because Anon wouldn't date me" gives them a lot of room not to interrogate their own beliefs.
White people have so much racism to unlearn. You aren't obligated to teach this to anyone, though, and especially not intimate partners. This is a huge red flag for your relationships, especially because it doesn't sound like they are open to learning. Your lack of ability to communicate or confront around this is NOT the problem. I suspect if you felt like they were truly curious about your perspective and open to learning, you'd be a lot more comfortable with the nuances here.
I don't exactly mean #notallwhitepeople, but I can say there are lots of white folks who may do or say something racist but are trying to be better, and would definitely not talk about wokeness and affirmative action as problems rather than solutions. Tolerating racist rants is not the price of admission to have a relationship with any given white person. Yes, we can be exhausting and racist and annoying, but, like, not always in that super deliberate and gross way.
I want better for you, and I think you want better for yourself.
posted by bluedaisy at 11:54 AM on October 11, 2022 [7 favorites]
I don't know of any organisation you refer people to in that situation. What I have are friends who will talk about this stuff, and various group chats with good links to videos etc.
I am white and in a (nominally - colonisation and Australia is a whole thing) relationship with someone who had Aboriginal heritage. Several close friends are PoC. I would never expose them or myself to someone making comments like that. If I had a partner making similar comments they would take time to make their bias and incorrect assumptions clear (in various ways). I've seen them do it with various kinds of biases and incorrect statements. I've done similar, particularly when it has intersected with someone's identity and they're not comfortable doing so. I've had my own perceptions and biases challenged.
Do you have a friendship group who could assist? It isn't as standardised and requires emotional labour from people, but it's how my friendship group tends to work. Rarely in a formal way, more in a "yeah nah mate that's fucked" or a variation.
(It does take humility though - not everyone responds well to being corrected or informed, or even being made aware their assumptions are steeped in various forms of bias.)
posted by geek anachronism at 10:09 PM on October 11, 2022
I am white and in a (nominally - colonisation and Australia is a whole thing) relationship with someone who had Aboriginal heritage. Several close friends are PoC. I would never expose them or myself to someone making comments like that. If I had a partner making similar comments they would take time to make their bias and incorrect assumptions clear (in various ways). I've seen them do it with various kinds of biases and incorrect statements. I've done similar, particularly when it has intersected with someone's identity and they're not comfortable doing so. I've had my own perceptions and biases challenged.
Do you have a friendship group who could assist? It isn't as standardised and requires emotional labour from people, but it's how my friendship group tends to work. Rarely in a formal way, more in a "yeah nah mate that's fucked" or a variation.
(It does take humility though - not everyone responds well to being corrected or informed, or even being made aware their assumptions are steeped in various forms of bias.)
posted by geek anachronism at 10:09 PM on October 11, 2022
This thread is closed to new comments.
But, if my partner told me it was really important to watch a specific video, or read a specific article on a sensitive topic, I would be more likely to actually listen to the information without getting defensive. I would also be more likely to really listen if another friend or someone else I already respected wanted to talk to me about this kind of thing. Unfortunately I don't know of any great resources on this topic designed for somewhat-defensive people, but hopefully someone else will.
posted by JZig at 12:02 AM on October 11, 2022 [6 favorites]