good sci fi that explore extremely large scale (inter)galactic civs?
September 21, 2022 2:44 AM Subscribe
I'm interesting in science fiction (novels) that explore what plausible extremely large scale civilization(s)/empire(s) would look like. more details within?
I guess the keyword is 1. plausible and 2. that it explores the larger scale dynamics in a way that is interesting/plausible. Any level of technology is fine, I just want the dynamics to be plausible. In fact I'm less concerned about the plausibility of the technology as I am about the plausibility of the empire itself, and how various entities related to each other, the social dynamics at play etc.
I haven't read anything that hit this 100%, but I think there are books that hit parts of it. For example, A Fire Upon the Deep exists in a (rather delightful) universe where this sort of thing definitely exists, it just is very sparing with details, and isn't really about that. But I'd love to read like...10 books that deal more directly with sort of the bigger situation in that book. Though of course there's a question of whether or not that world's worldbuilding could have sustained much more attention/time spent on it, but I digress...
Oh and I guess something implicit that is worth making explicit is that it should be in a universe where the galaxy/universe is "full of life," that is to say, where civilization(s) have spread in some way significantly around the galaxy or broader universe. I think there are books that deal with the idea of...civilization and the universe, and deal with them in very interesting and plausible ways, but the conclusions all lead to "for x y z reasons, the universe is in fact pretty empty" (I just finished Diaspora which I'd say fits into that, as does the three body trilogy). I'm happy suspending disbelief and allow the existence of intergalactic civilizations/empires/whatever, the area I'm more interested in is sort of what that would look like in a more sociological/human/whatever way.
Eh there are a lot of sci fi nerds here (and I love you all) so my guess is that is probably enough. Happy to clarify though! Thank you!
I guess the keyword is 1. plausible and 2. that it explores the larger scale dynamics in a way that is interesting/plausible. Any level of technology is fine, I just want the dynamics to be plausible. In fact I'm less concerned about the plausibility of the technology as I am about the plausibility of the empire itself, and how various entities related to each other, the social dynamics at play etc.
I haven't read anything that hit this 100%, but I think there are books that hit parts of it. For example, A Fire Upon the Deep exists in a (rather delightful) universe where this sort of thing definitely exists, it just is very sparing with details, and isn't really about that. But I'd love to read like...10 books that deal more directly with sort of the bigger situation in that book. Though of course there's a question of whether or not that world's worldbuilding could have sustained much more attention/time spent on it, but I digress...
Oh and I guess something implicit that is worth making explicit is that it should be in a universe where the galaxy/universe is "full of life," that is to say, where civilization(s) have spread in some way significantly around the galaxy or broader universe. I think there are books that deal with the idea of...civilization and the universe, and deal with them in very interesting and plausible ways, but the conclusions all lead to "for x y z reasons, the universe is in fact pretty empty" (I just finished Diaspora which I'd say fits into that, as does the three body trilogy). I'm happy suspending disbelief and allow the existence of intergalactic civilizations/empires/whatever, the area I'm more interested in is sort of what that would look like in a more sociological/human/whatever way.
Eh there are a lot of sci fi nerds here (and I love you all) so my guess is that is probably enough. Happy to clarify though! Thank you!
Response by poster: just to clarify, plot driven is totally ok! as long as the world feels plausible and lived in and the plot involves things that involve the broader scope of the civilization(s) etc, rather than something more local (which is what A Fire Upon the Deep did, which I should clarify, I loved A Fire Upon the Deep, just looking for a bit more scale). thank everyone again!
posted by wooh at 3:04 AM on September 21, 2022
posted by wooh at 3:04 AM on September 21, 2022
I see what you mean. The "Culture" books by Iain M. Banks describe a galaxy-spanning civilization, but the stories are all pretty localized. They don't pay much attention to the consequences of an interstellar society being that large.
I've only read the first book, but John Scalzi's "Collapsing Empire" series seemed to be more what you want. They have created a far-flung society of worlds without having faster-than-light spaceships; instead they make use of a network of wormholes that was discovered in the past. As the story begins, a few wormholes have evaporated, and scientists believe the whole network isn't stable in the long term. Suddenly the size and dispersal of the empire is a major issue.
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 3:30 AM on September 21, 2022 [6 favorites]
I've only read the first book, but John Scalzi's "Collapsing Empire" series seemed to be more what you want. They have created a far-flung society of worlds without having faster-than-light spaceships; instead they make use of a network of wormholes that was discovered in the past. As the story begins, a few wormholes have evaporated, and scientists believe the whole network isn't stable in the long term. Suddenly the size and dispersal of the empire is a major issue.
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 3:30 AM on September 21, 2022 [6 favorites]
Ursula K. Le Guin’s Hainish Cycle is the first thing that springs to my mind. Interstellar travel has been achieved, then collapses, then is re-established but with time differences very at the forefront of some of the novels. For example, interstellar communication is instant but travel is at near fast as light so journeys between planets take years.
posted by greycap at 3:52 AM on September 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by greycap at 3:52 AM on September 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
The Grey Lensman and Ringworld series, both written within a light minute or so ago, basically right now on a galactic timeline scale, but a few years ago culturally so the instantaneous vernacular is slightly archaic.
posted by sammyo at 3:54 AM on September 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by sammyo at 3:54 AM on September 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
Both Ian M. Banks and Peter F. Hamilton have already been mentioned.
Its dated, but Asimov's Foundation series tackles this. As does Frank Herbert's Dune series. In fact, a lot of Silver Age Sci-Fi tracks with this.
posted by anansi at 3:54 AM on September 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
Its dated, but Asimov's Foundation series tackles this. As does Frank Herbert's Dune series. In fact, a lot of Silver Age Sci-Fi tracks with this.
posted by anansi at 3:54 AM on September 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
The Saga of the Skolian Empire by Catherine Asaro. Spectacular. Her background in physics enriches the books because it's plausible. I started with Primary Inversion but they're all gorgeously written and deliciously thought provoking. If anyone turns them into a series, I'd be the first in line to watch.
As to scale, it's three major civilisations, Skolians, Aristos and Allieds (Earth) and the Skolians came from a group of early humans that were kidnapped and taken off world. They had the space faring technology, traveled the universe setting up outposts on other worlds then lost the technology and some worlds evolved. When humans on Earth (Allieds) finally achieved space travel, they met an empire already there (Skolians).
Political intrigue, epic battles both space and on world. Fascinating examples of technology like the psiberweb and different concepts of society that define day to day life in a real and interesting way, i.e. Quis. Different worlds and flora and fauna and what they eat, i.e Lyshriol and Prism. Truly magnificent work.
CW: Some themes similar to Game of Thrones i.e. violence due to the nature of the Aristos but not in a gratuitous way, it's actually significant to the story line. Some sexual taboo i.e. Lannisters and Targaryens but it's only one couple and also relevant to the storyline. Trying not to give spoilers and apologies if you're not familiar with Game of Thrones.
(Tiny rant, Asaro is exponentially a better writer and has the PhD to back up her world building. If you'd like to talk more, feel free to memail because I've yet to come across a body of work that I've read as vociferously and cherished as I have her work.)
posted by VyanSelei at 3:59 AM on September 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
As to scale, it's three major civilisations, Skolians, Aristos and Allieds (Earth) and the Skolians came from a group of early humans that were kidnapped and taken off world. They had the space faring technology, traveled the universe setting up outposts on other worlds then lost the technology and some worlds evolved. When humans on Earth (Allieds) finally achieved space travel, they met an empire already there (Skolians).
Political intrigue, epic battles both space and on world. Fascinating examples of technology like the psiberweb and different concepts of society that define day to day life in a real and interesting way, i.e. Quis. Different worlds and flora and fauna and what they eat, i.e Lyshriol and Prism. Truly magnificent work.
CW: Some themes similar to Game of Thrones i.e. violence due to the nature of the Aristos but not in a gratuitous way, it's actually significant to the story line. Some sexual taboo i.e. Lannisters and Targaryens but it's only one couple and also relevant to the storyline. Trying not to give spoilers and apologies if you're not familiar with Game of Thrones.
(Tiny rant, Asaro is exponentially a better writer and has the PhD to back up her world building. If you'd like to talk more, feel free to memail because I've yet to come across a body of work that I've read as vociferously and cherished as I have her work.)
posted by VyanSelei at 3:59 AM on September 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
The Uplift trilogy by David Brin provides a really interesting take on a interspecies galactic empire. The key aspect is that it is widely believed that sentience only occurred naturally once (ish) in the galaxy, and every other intelligent species was "uplifted" by another species, creating a complex hierarchy of "patron" and "client" races.
posted by BrashTech at 5:25 AM on September 21, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by BrashTech at 5:25 AM on September 21, 2022 [4 favorites]
Arkady Martin's "A Memory Called Empire" and "A Desolation Called Peace" are set in the context of an interstellar empire partly inspired by her interpretation of mesoamerican historical cultures. You can argue with the plausibility of some of the world-building, particularly in the second book, but I think that's true of all of the other works discussed here as well.
posted by Alterscape at 5:50 AM on September 21, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by Alterscape at 5:50 AM on September 21, 2022 [6 favorites]
Ann Leckie's Ancillary Justice and sequels - they generally stay in one solar system but there's a lot of discussion of the larger empire and how that works, including colonisation and history. Justice and Mercy more than Sword, I think.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 5:58 AM on September 21, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by I claim sanctuary at 5:58 AM on September 21, 2022 [8 favorites]
I'd recommend Children of Time by Adrian Tchaikovsky. It's basically about a group of Earth colonists who are sent lights years away to search for new habitable planets after terraforming missions had allegedly set up livable environments for them to find in the future.
I haven't finished it but it seems more about human relationships and prospects of facing unknown alien intelligences etc. It's "hard science fiction" , it all seems fairly plausible - so far.
posted by Liquidwolf at 6:15 AM on September 21, 2022
I haven't finished it but it seems more about human relationships and prospects of facing unknown alien intelligences etc. It's "hard science fiction" , it all seems fairly plausible - so far.
posted by Liquidwolf at 6:15 AM on September 21, 2022
Ann Leckie's Ancillary Justice and sequels - they generally stay in one solar system but there's a lot of discussion of the larger empire and how that works, including colonisation and history. Justice and Mercy more than Sword, I think.
I'm gonna second this one. I've come across few science fiction settings that feel as alive and 'lived-in' as the Ancillary series, and it really conveys the diversity and scope of human cultures in a galactic setting. And it definitely gets into the workings of a galaxy-spanning civilization, even if, as I claim sanctuary says, most of the story takes place within a single solar system.
posted by CactusJack at 6:53 AM on September 21, 2022
I'm gonna second this one. I've come across few science fiction settings that feel as alive and 'lived-in' as the Ancillary series, and it really conveys the diversity and scope of human cultures in a galactic setting. And it definitely gets into the workings of a galaxy-spanning civilization, even if, as I claim sanctuary says, most of the story takes place within a single solar system.
posted by CactusJack at 6:53 AM on September 21, 2022
The first three books of the Foundation series cover a galaxy united in a single empire, and how the mechanics of such an empire lead to its fall.
Perhaps unfortunately the entire arc is modeled on The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire and the basic conceit is that the fact that the administrative territories are made of planets rather than groups of cities makes little difference in the outcome.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 10:22 AM on September 21, 2022
Perhaps unfortunately the entire arc is modeled on The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire and the basic conceit is that the fact that the administrative territories are made of planets rather than groups of cities makes little difference in the outcome.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 10:22 AM on September 21, 2022
Becky Chambers' Wayfarers series (The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet; A Closed and Common Orbit; Record of a Spaceborn Few; and The Galaxy, and the Ground Within) explore this extensively, although it's multispecies and I don't know if that fits your criteria. There is extensive discussion of empire, colonialization, and lots of politics.
posted by epanalepsis at 10:44 AM on September 21, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by epanalepsis at 10:44 AM on September 21, 2022 [4 favorites]
The Uplift trilogy by David Brin provides a really interesting take on a interspecies galactic empire.
Ann Leckie's Ancillary Justice and sequels
Some of my favorite books have been mentioned here, but many I'd consider "merely" interstellar rather than galaxy-spanning.
Of the ones I've read, these are the series that really give me the sense of vast scale and scope I think you want. You couldn't even imagine how long these civilizations had lasted or how long you'd need to travel to leave one of them.
But whatever you do, don't read the second trilogy in that same universe by Brin. It spectacularly fails to deliver.
posted by mark k at 11:41 AM on September 21, 2022
Ann Leckie's Ancillary Justice and sequels
Some of my favorite books have been mentioned here, but many I'd consider "merely" interstellar rather than galaxy-spanning.
Of the ones I've read, these are the series that really give me the sense of vast scale and scope I think you want. You couldn't even imagine how long these civilizations had lasted or how long you'd need to travel to leave one of them.
But whatever you do, don't read the second trilogy in that same universe by Brin. It spectacularly fails to deliver.
posted by mark k at 11:41 AM on September 21, 2022
Possibly Revelation Space by Alistair Reynolds. I've only read the short stories, and I don't think that there's any FTL, but there are groups that traverse the galaxy.
posted by Spike Glee at 5:00 PM on September 21, 2022
posted by Spike Glee at 5:00 PM on September 21, 2022
This thread is closed to new comments.
If you want a galaxy with a range of different lifeforms who collaborate a little more, Adrian Tchaikovsky's Shards of Earth I thought was pretty fun; in that different species collaborate with humanity thanks at least in part to an existential threat.
posted by Cannon Fodder at 2:57 AM on September 21, 2022 [2 favorites]