Awkward convo with anxious person
August 25, 2022 7:41 AM Subscribe
How do I have an awkward conversation about hygiene and cleanliness with someone who is very anxious and self-conscious (housemate edition)?
I have a very sweet, kind, respectful housemate, but her cleanliness/hygiene leaves something to be desired. I'm usually a very direct person, but she's so anxious and self-conscious that I fear the wrong approach could damage our friendly relationship and make for a tense household.
She's one of those people that apologizes profusely like she's the world's biggest burden before asking something so simple as like 'do you have a paper clip I could use'? She's so embarrassed by having clothes on her floor or an unmade bed that she only opens the door a crack if I'm talking to her so I can't see in. If she makes the smallest mistake at work, she dwells on it and beats herself up for it. So you can see how I'm a little cautious in approaching her about this, but it's really starting to get to me.
There are two main issues, probably two sides of the same coin, that coin being just not noticing gross shit.
1) Fingerprints everywhere. She wears a lot of makeup on her face, so I'm assuming she touches her face then touches all our surfaces, leaving dusty fingerprints on EVERYTHING. To me this reads as a partial hygiene thing bc she obviously doesn't wash her hands very frequently. And also, she never wipes anything off so these just accumulate on the coffee pot, doorknob, toilet flush handle, drawer pull, all over, until I eventually wipe them off. I feel like this would be solved if she would wash her hands (with actual soap) more regularly and/or clean more often [side note: I saw she had a grease stain on her hand from putting together some equipment the other day and I pointed it out so she wouldn't get it on her dress, and she just quickly ran it under water and wiped it off. No soap or scrubbing.]
2) Un-thorough dishwashing. We don't have a dishwasher so we must handwash, which she technically does but 80% of the time I'm putting dishes away, I notice something gooey or crusty on the dishes she uses (not to mention those fucking fingerprints), so I end up re-washing most of her stuff.
I have what I consider pretty good but not over-the-top cleanliness standards. If I make a mess, I clean it up. I keep an eye out for icky stuff to make sure it doesn't accumulate. I wipe down surfaces and sweep regularly. I try to keep things looking decent, but definitely not immaculate always. I don't care what she does in her own room, but in shared spaces I'm wiping down all of our surfaces multiple times a day bc her prints are just everywhere and it's really grossing me out.
She's otherwise a very kind, thoughtful, respectful person, I just think she literally doesn't see this stuff. So how can I approach this without throwing her off or messing with our good vibe. We are both women in our late 30s so this isn't a 'just went to college and is still learning how to adult' kind of thing.
Thanks!
I have a very sweet, kind, respectful housemate, but her cleanliness/hygiene leaves something to be desired. I'm usually a very direct person, but she's so anxious and self-conscious that I fear the wrong approach could damage our friendly relationship and make for a tense household.
She's one of those people that apologizes profusely like she's the world's biggest burden before asking something so simple as like 'do you have a paper clip I could use'? She's so embarrassed by having clothes on her floor or an unmade bed that she only opens the door a crack if I'm talking to her so I can't see in. If she makes the smallest mistake at work, she dwells on it and beats herself up for it. So you can see how I'm a little cautious in approaching her about this, but it's really starting to get to me.
There are two main issues, probably two sides of the same coin, that coin being just not noticing gross shit.
1) Fingerprints everywhere. She wears a lot of makeup on her face, so I'm assuming she touches her face then touches all our surfaces, leaving dusty fingerprints on EVERYTHING. To me this reads as a partial hygiene thing bc she obviously doesn't wash her hands very frequently. And also, she never wipes anything off so these just accumulate on the coffee pot, doorknob, toilet flush handle, drawer pull, all over, until I eventually wipe them off. I feel like this would be solved if she would wash her hands (with actual soap) more regularly and/or clean more often [side note: I saw she had a grease stain on her hand from putting together some equipment the other day and I pointed it out so she wouldn't get it on her dress, and she just quickly ran it under water and wiped it off. No soap or scrubbing.]
2) Un-thorough dishwashing. We don't have a dishwasher so we must handwash, which she technically does but 80% of the time I'm putting dishes away, I notice something gooey or crusty on the dishes she uses (not to mention those fucking fingerprints), so I end up re-washing most of her stuff.
I have what I consider pretty good but not over-the-top cleanliness standards. If I make a mess, I clean it up. I keep an eye out for icky stuff to make sure it doesn't accumulate. I wipe down surfaces and sweep regularly. I try to keep things looking decent, but definitely not immaculate always. I don't care what she does in her own room, but in shared spaces I'm wiping down all of our surfaces multiple times a day bc her prints are just everywhere and it's really grossing me out.
She's otherwise a very kind, thoughtful, respectful person, I just think she literally doesn't see this stuff. So how can I approach this without throwing her off or messing with our good vibe. We are both women in our late 30s so this isn't a 'just went to college and is still learning how to adult' kind of thing.
Thanks!
If it were me, I might try approaching the fingerprint thing first, as a new house initiative. Will she see through it? Maybe. But it's worth trying.
Something like, "hey, I'd like to cut down on the amount of time we have to clean / our Covid exposure, so I was wondering if we could try handwashing at a couple of additional times, like after using any product that stays around in an opened container for more than a couple of days: we already do it for things like using condiments from the refrigerator because that's food, but also things like hair gel, laundry detergent, etc. One way to monitor this is by looking for fingerprints once a week or so."
Or: introduce to her/the house what I call the "Inner Game of Tennis" / noticing approach. Maybe you could make a goal cleaning some things _less_ by only cleaning them when fingerprints are present.
Once noticing things is a thing, it might be possible to finesse the dishes issue.
Or: you notice, in front of her, a dish that _you_ definitely washed that still has something stuck on it.
Or: buy a new kind of dish scrubbing pad, and let her know it should make it easier to get every single thing off the dishes without having to spend so much time scrubbing them, since (you know this is true) you sometimes have left stuff on dishes after washing them. Since she's sensitive in general, this may make the idea of looking for stuff on the dishes more prominent to her.
posted by amtho at 7:58 AM on August 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
Something like, "hey, I'd like to cut down on the amount of time we have to clean / our Covid exposure, so I was wondering if we could try handwashing at a couple of additional times, like after using any product that stays around in an opened container for more than a couple of days: we already do it for things like using condiments from the refrigerator because that's food, but also things like hair gel, laundry detergent, etc. One way to monitor this is by looking for fingerprints once a week or so."
Or: introduce to her/the house what I call the "Inner Game of Tennis" / noticing approach. Maybe you could make a goal cleaning some things _less_ by only cleaning them when fingerprints are present.
Once noticing things is a thing, it might be possible to finesse the dishes issue.
Or: you notice, in front of her, a dish that _you_ definitely washed that still has something stuck on it.
Or: buy a new kind of dish scrubbing pad, and let her know it should make it easier to get every single thing off the dishes without having to spend so much time scrubbing them, since (you know this is true) you sometimes have left stuff on dishes after washing them. Since she's sensitive in general, this may make the idea of looking for stuff on the dishes more prominent to her.
posted by amtho at 7:58 AM on August 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
It's nice of you to notice that your housemate is such an anxious person, it's nice that you want to be gentle with her. Whatever way you choose to tell her will, I am sure, be kind.
But please do not fall into the trap of walking on eggshells around her. Don't avoid the topic, and don't be indirect, tentative, phrasing your request as a maybe? question?, etc. Don't try to soften (what you believe will be) this huge blow to her by giving a big long speech about how much you value her and how you're not saying she's a bad person and how you just think it's a small thing. Don't spend extra money buying new cleaning products. Don't waste your time and effort coming up with extra cleaning routines and finding a way to pitch the new routine to her. Don't talk about Covid when it's not about Covid. All of this is walking on eggshells. Don't do it.
Instead, treat these issues exactly as they are. Say what you need to say, and move on.
You can say, in a cheerful and breezy tone, preferably just as you're heading out the door the first couple of times you need to say it: "Oh, hey, some of the dishes were still a bit cruddy so I left them in the sink for you to rewash, please and thank you!" and "Oh, look, here's a fingerprint of your makeup on the wall! Do you want a wipe to clean that up?" And then, after you say it, you move on as if it's not a big deal *because it isn't*.
If your housemate is thrown off by your kind, gentle, direct request, that's okay. She is a big girl and she can deal with her own feelings. You do not need to protect her from this. If the vibe between you both is ruined from this simple request, that is also okay. Not all housemates have the most perfect vibe ever 24/7/365. You will survive the sub-par vibe. And if the sub-par vibe lasts too long or feels too intense for your comfort, then you will want to bring that up, too, once again in a straightforward, kind, and BRIEF way: "Hey, I notice our vibe is off, what's up?"
Because this is how adults deal with each other's feelings. You do not try to protect other people from ever having to feel bad. You say what you need to say, you remain unfailingly kind and honest, and you always speak up to ask what's going on when you feel bad vibes in the air. No muss no fuss. You got this.
posted by MiraK at 8:02 AM on August 25, 2022 [41 favorites]
But please do not fall into the trap of walking on eggshells around her. Don't avoid the topic, and don't be indirect, tentative, phrasing your request as a maybe? question?, etc. Don't try to soften (what you believe will be) this huge blow to her by giving a big long speech about how much you value her and how you're not saying she's a bad person and how you just think it's a small thing. Don't spend extra money buying new cleaning products. Don't waste your time and effort coming up with extra cleaning routines and finding a way to pitch the new routine to her. Don't talk about Covid when it's not about Covid. All of this is walking on eggshells. Don't do it.
Instead, treat these issues exactly as they are. Say what you need to say, and move on.
You can say, in a cheerful and breezy tone, preferably just as you're heading out the door the first couple of times you need to say it: "Oh, hey, some of the dishes were still a bit cruddy so I left them in the sink for you to rewash, please and thank you!" and "Oh, look, here's a fingerprint of your makeup on the wall! Do you want a wipe to clean that up?" And then, after you say it, you move on as if it's not a big deal *because it isn't*.
If your housemate is thrown off by your kind, gentle, direct request, that's okay. She is a big girl and she can deal with her own feelings. You do not need to protect her from this. If the vibe between you both is ruined from this simple request, that is also okay. Not all housemates have the most perfect vibe ever 24/7/365. You will survive the sub-par vibe. And if the sub-par vibe lasts too long or feels too intense for your comfort, then you will want to bring that up, too, once again in a straightforward, kind, and BRIEF way: "Hey, I notice our vibe is off, what's up?"
Because this is how adults deal with each other's feelings. You do not try to protect other people from ever having to feel bad. You say what you need to say, you remain unfailingly kind and honest, and you always speak up to ask what's going on when you feel bad vibes in the air. No muss no fuss. You got this.
posted by MiraK at 8:02 AM on August 25, 2022 [41 favorites]
I had a roommate with what I found to be abysmal hygiene (he was absolutely one of the men who was never taught better) and I kept my comments relevant to shared spaces. It helped that I was so horrified to discover that no, our bathtub was not stained, it was just dirt (!!!) that I exclaimed aloud and showed him what I meant.
I designated a joint cleaning day for us, which he happily agreed to, and showed him what a clean bathroom and kitchen looked like.
Once, I threw out his toothbrush, and when he said that it was soft like he liked it, I pointed out that he had never changed it in the year we had lived together and said that dentists recommend every 3-6 months. I was also the one cleaning the bathroom mirror when blood from his gums spattered on it, and I pointed that out too.
I did not tell him to use a pillowcase on his yellow stained pillow. I listened neutrally to his laments that he never got past date #3 with people.
There was more, I will not share it all because I don't like thinking about it.
At the end of our lease I found my own place. There was only so direct I was willing to be.
posted by Lawn Beaver at 8:03 AM on August 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
I designated a joint cleaning day for us, which he happily agreed to, and showed him what a clean bathroom and kitchen looked like.
Once, I threw out his toothbrush, and when he said that it was soft like he liked it, I pointed out that he had never changed it in the year we had lived together and said that dentists recommend every 3-6 months. I was also the one cleaning the bathroom mirror when blood from his gums spattered on it, and I pointed that out too.
I did not tell him to use a pillowcase on his yellow stained pillow. I listened neutrally to his laments that he never got past date #3 with people.
There was more, I will not share it all because I don't like thinking about it.
At the end of our lease I found my own place. There was only so direct I was willing to be.
posted by Lawn Beaver at 8:03 AM on August 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: For the record, I have tried the non-approach approaches, ie not cleaning the worst offender surfaces so she'll eventually notice or scrubbing down those surfaces mentioning 'wow we're leaving so many fingerprints we should wipe these more often!' while we're in the room together, or 'oops! we left some crusty stuff on this dish, I'm just going to rewash, let's check these better!'. I also have handsoap next to kitchen and bathroom sinks.
No dice so far. I think she's just very anxious and distracted that it doesn't register, I don't think she's ignoring this intentionally or out of laziness. I need to have a direct conversation, not just suggestive stuff she'll hopefully pick up on bc I've tried that. I just want to know how to do it gently. I'm not well practiced in being soft and diplomatic.
Thanks for the suggestions so far!
posted by greta simone at 8:14 AM on August 25, 2022
No dice so far. I think she's just very anxious and distracted that it doesn't register, I don't think she's ignoring this intentionally or out of laziness. I need to have a direct conversation, not just suggestive stuff she'll hopefully pick up on bc I've tried that. I just want to know how to do it gently. I'm not well practiced in being soft and diplomatic.
Thanks for the suggestions so far!
posted by greta simone at 8:14 AM on August 25, 2022
You are fundamentally approaching this in your own mind and heart as 'my roommate is gross (in these specific ways)'. With that foundational belief, you are right that your communications will likely embarrass her no matter how you phrase things.
Can you bring yourself to truly believe and understand that your preference for gleaming, fingerprint-free surfaces is not about hygiene (sorry, you are not actually getting sick from other people's fingerprints any more or less than you are from breathing the same room air). Dishes with crust on them may be offensive to you, but again, a dried-up smudge of something is not actually going to make someone sick - anymore than picking up a crumb off the floor and eating it would make you sick. You were taught a certain level of cleanliness is what counts as 'clean enough'. She was taught a different level. I guarantee there is someone out there who looks at how you're cleaning your own spaces and recoils in disgust at your lack of bleaching, or whatever.
If you can fully internalize that this is about a difference in preferences, rather than one of you being unhygenic, you can approach it in a truly neutral way that won't embarrass.
"Hey roomie, I realize we are on a different page when it comes to cleaning surfaces. I like to wipe them down as soon as I see fingerprints, and I do extra handwashing to minimize fingerprints too. I realize that's not been your approach, but since it's bothering me and I'm doing a lot of extra wiping, can we find a compromise that works for both of us? What seems reasonable to you? Maybe we agree to wipe down surfaces once a week and I'll buy some wipes to have handy in strategic places?"
"Hey roomie, I realize we're on a different page when it comes to dishes. If I'm putting them away and I see a smudge or crust of something that got missed washing, I feel like they need to be re-washed. When I wash dishes, I always pre-soak and use a clean scrubber. What can we do so I'm not re-washing dishes, but you're not overly inconvenienced either? Should we start keeping separate dishes? Other ideas that could work for both of us?"
posted by Ausamor at 8:16 AM on August 25, 2022 [25 favorites]
Can you bring yourself to truly believe and understand that your preference for gleaming, fingerprint-free surfaces is not about hygiene (sorry, you are not actually getting sick from other people's fingerprints any more or less than you are from breathing the same room air). Dishes with crust on them may be offensive to you, but again, a dried-up smudge of something is not actually going to make someone sick - anymore than picking up a crumb off the floor and eating it would make you sick. You were taught a certain level of cleanliness is what counts as 'clean enough'. She was taught a different level. I guarantee there is someone out there who looks at how you're cleaning your own spaces and recoils in disgust at your lack of bleaching, or whatever.
If you can fully internalize that this is about a difference in preferences, rather than one of you being unhygenic, you can approach it in a truly neutral way that won't embarrass.
"Hey roomie, I realize we are on a different page when it comes to cleaning surfaces. I like to wipe them down as soon as I see fingerprints, and I do extra handwashing to minimize fingerprints too. I realize that's not been your approach, but since it's bothering me and I'm doing a lot of extra wiping, can we find a compromise that works for both of us? What seems reasonable to you? Maybe we agree to wipe down surfaces once a week and I'll buy some wipes to have handy in strategic places?"
"Hey roomie, I realize we're on a different page when it comes to dishes. If I'm putting them away and I see a smudge or crust of something that got missed washing, I feel like they need to be re-washed. When I wash dishes, I always pre-soak and use a clean scrubber. What can we do so I'm not re-washing dishes, but you're not overly inconvenienced either? Should we start keeping separate dishes? Other ideas that could work for both of us?"
posted by Ausamor at 8:16 AM on August 25, 2022 [25 favorites]
she never wipes anything off so [fingerprints] just accumulate on the coffee pot, doorknob, toilet flush handle, drawer pull, all over, until I eventually wipe them off. ... in shared spaces I'm wiping down all of our surfaces multiple times a day bc her prints are just everywhere and it's really grossing me out.
I just noticed this part ! I thought at first you were talking about fingerprints with some kind of dye in the print, like it was a smear of makeup or an actual grease smudge. But just regular prints? I have to say, to me your standards would definitely count as being overly fastidious and unrealistic. It's normal for human skin to have oils on it. It is outright unhealthy to wash your hands so frequently that you never leave any oily residue on any shiny surface around the house!
This still doesn't change my advice to you, because if you're feeling grossed out, you're feeling grossed out, and you have to speak up in order for things to change, and in the interests of honesty, because it does nobody any favors if you pile on resentments against your housemate secretly inside your head. But I am letting you know that if your expectation is that there should be no finger smudges ever on any kind of handle or surface, that's an unusual expectation, and your housemate would not be out of line for refusing to meet those standards even in shared spaces. This might be an issue you end up compromising on.
(The dirty dishes complaint sounds more standard to me.)
posted by MiraK at 8:22 AM on August 25, 2022 [10 favorites]
I just noticed this part ! I thought at first you were talking about fingerprints with some kind of dye in the print, like it was a smear of makeup or an actual grease smudge. But just regular prints? I have to say, to me your standards would definitely count as being overly fastidious and unrealistic. It's normal for human skin to have oils on it. It is outright unhealthy to wash your hands so frequently that you never leave any oily residue on any shiny surface around the house!
This still doesn't change my advice to you, because if you're feeling grossed out, you're feeling grossed out, and you have to speak up in order for things to change, and in the interests of honesty, because it does nobody any favors if you pile on resentments against your housemate secretly inside your head. But I am letting you know that if your expectation is that there should be no finger smudges ever on any kind of handle or surface, that's an unusual expectation, and your housemate would not be out of line for refusing to meet those standards even in shared spaces. This might be an issue you end up compromising on.
(The dirty dishes complaint sounds more standard to me.)
posted by MiraK at 8:22 AM on August 25, 2022 [10 favorites]
You can’t tell her to wash her hands more—she probably washes them after the restroom but doesn’t scrub each time she touches her face or does work or whatever, which is pretty normal. And you can’t comment on her makeup (if her makeup is transferring, which most makeup does, I don’t agree that means she never washes her hands and is unhygienic to a degree she needs a lecture from a roommate.) Your issue seems to be that you’re cleaning fingerprints and she isn’t. I don’t think you can request that she doesn’t leave fingerprints, but you can tell her that fingerprints bother you, and so could we share the chore of cleaning fingerprints from surfaces more frequently, say doorknobs and coffee pot twice per week?
Different people have different standards for dishes so this conversation is about that—how to split this chore so that you can both live with it? That’s kind of the trade off for the chore-sharing, though, in my experience with roommates—you can mention it once but ultimately if you want it done to your standards you have to do it. (Sorry.)
posted by kapers at 8:43 AM on August 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
Different people have different standards for dishes so this conversation is about that—how to split this chore so that you can both live with it? That’s kind of the trade off for the chore-sharing, though, in my experience with roommates—you can mention it once but ultimately if you want it done to your standards you have to do it. (Sorry.)
posted by kapers at 8:43 AM on August 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
Nobody I know cleans multiple surfaces in their homes multiple times a day - clearly kitchen counters and dinner table need wiping after each use but the rest seems more about your preferences. And some people simply have sweaty palms.
I'd be unhappy about crusty dishes as well. So perhaps pick that problem to resolve but buy more wipes and wipe to whatever extent you deem necessary?
posted by koahiatamadl at 8:49 AM on August 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'd be unhappy about crusty dishes as well. So perhaps pick that problem to resolve but buy more wipes and wipe to whatever extent you deem necessary?
posted by koahiatamadl at 8:49 AM on August 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
If it's practical for you each to use your own dishes, I think that would be reasonable. Re the fingerprint thing, I think it's normal for some people to have oilier hands, and fingerprints on, say, a coffee pot are not gross to me. Putting olive oil on stainless steel appliances can help them stay less smudgey longer.
posted by pinochiette at 8:58 AM on August 25, 2022
posted by pinochiette at 8:58 AM on August 25, 2022
Yeah, I do think these are two really different issues. "Don't ever have hands oily enough to leave fingerprints around" isn't a reasonable standard to hold someone else to and doesn't necessarily have much to do with when and how she washes her hands. I think this is one of those things where if your cleaning standard is "no visible fingerprints" then you might need to be the one taking responsibility for keeping things up to that standard.
Leaving actual food remnants on the dishes is not a reasonable thing to do in a shared-dishes environment and I think you have more grounds there to just say hey, I keep finding food still on our plates after they've been washed, I need you to do this task more thoroughly. Alternatively: What's your chore rota like? Is there anything reasonable you could trade off such that dishes become 100% your job since you care more and it's not pleasant for either of you for you to be constantly after her about redoing her chores, but instead she takes XYZ over that won't bother you as much if it's not done to your standard? Alternatively-alternatively, yes, "separate dishes" is also a reasonable response in some situations to different roommate requirements around frequency and thoroughness of dishwashing. I'd probably have the conversation first, but if it doesn't work out, you might keep separate dishes as a fallback position.
posted by Stacey at 9:18 AM on August 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
Leaving actual food remnants on the dishes is not a reasonable thing to do in a shared-dishes environment and I think you have more grounds there to just say hey, I keep finding food still on our plates after they've been washed, I need you to do this task more thoroughly. Alternatively: What's your chore rota like? Is there anything reasonable you could trade off such that dishes become 100% your job since you care more and it's not pleasant for either of you for you to be constantly after her about redoing her chores, but instead she takes XYZ over that won't bother you as much if it's not done to your standard? Alternatively-alternatively, yes, "separate dishes" is also a reasonable response in some situations to different roommate requirements around frequency and thoroughness of dishwashing. I'd probably have the conversation first, but if it doesn't work out, you might keep separate dishes as a fallback position.
posted by Stacey at 9:18 AM on August 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
I am going to agree with the advice above to pick your battles and focus on the dish issues rather than the fingerprints. I also agree that if it is practical the answer may wind up being that each of you to have your own dishes.
Stacey's advice was pretty much what I was in the process of typing up, so I'm just going to second that.
The Spruce has some tips on washing dishes. I'm linking to it because the advice on buying dishpans and their use can be really helpful with the issue you are having, even if you have a divided sink. You can get plastic ones for very little money. My cousin is really anal about putting all her dirty dishes in a dishpan for at least a quick soak in soapy water prior to washing, and it is really helpful in making it easier to clean them when it is washing time. You might see if your roommate is willing to adopt a dishpan soak as part of a new dish cleaning routine you want to have?
posted by gudrun at 10:21 AM on August 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
Stacey's advice was pretty much what I was in the process of typing up, so I'm just going to second that.
The Spruce has some tips on washing dishes. I'm linking to it because the advice on buying dishpans and their use can be really helpful with the issue you are having, even if you have a divided sink. You can get plastic ones for very little money. My cousin is really anal about putting all her dirty dishes in a dishpan for at least a quick soak in soapy water prior to washing, and it is really helpful in making it easier to clean them when it is washing time. You might see if your roommate is willing to adopt a dishpan soak as part of a new dish cleaning routine you want to have?
posted by gudrun at 10:21 AM on August 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks for all the tips on how to wash dishes I guess? But I'm asking on how to broach the topic with her, not sponges that will get the job done better. It won't be 'better' if she's not able to notice that it's bad to begin with. Separate dishes aren't possible due to space limitations as well as other reasons that are irrelevant.
And for those who think I'm talking about the occasional smudge, I'm talking about brown smears all over everything, that are visible from a distance and are dense enough over a short period of time (a matter of hours) that they obscure the even the color of the surface underneath. I have lived with dozens of roommates over the years and have never required a 'gleaming surface', I do require that my house isn't consistently covered in visible grime.
And yes, in general I consider lack of handwashing to be a hygiene issue, sorry.
Thanks again for those responses that take me at my word and try to answer the actual question!
posted by greta simone at 12:39 PM on August 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
And for those who think I'm talking about the occasional smudge, I'm talking about brown smears all over everything, that are visible from a distance and are dense enough over a short period of time (a matter of hours) that they obscure the even the color of the surface underneath. I have lived with dozens of roommates over the years and have never required a 'gleaming surface', I do require that my house isn't consistently covered in visible grime.
And yes, in general I consider lack of handwashing to be a hygiene issue, sorry.
Thanks again for those responses that take me at my word and try to answer the actual question!
posted by greta simone at 12:39 PM on August 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
I have got no advice on how to approach the smudge talk, sorry, which, yep, would make me genuinely upset as well.
My advice about getting a dishpan and starting that system was predicated on your saying your roommate is so sensitive. So, I thought you could try telling her that you want to try a new system for the community dish washing, and would she be willing to do it, rather than directly saying that you want to do it because she leaves icky stuff on the dishes when she washes them. I was thinking you first try instituting a new system that would be that both of you put dirty dishes in a dish pan for a soak in soapy water for a bit before washing. My thinking was that soaking in soapy water would hopefully eliminate some of the issues she is having with grease or crusty bits staying on the dishes, without you having to actually call her out on the issue. Get a dishpan plus make sure you have a sponge with a scrubby side, and also check which dish soap you use as well to see if you need to try an upgrade. Then try the new system and see how it goes. If there are still issues, you will have to do a more direct talk with her, sensitivity or not.
posted by gudrun at 2:42 PM on August 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
My advice about getting a dishpan and starting that system was predicated on your saying your roommate is so sensitive. So, I thought you could try telling her that you want to try a new system for the community dish washing, and would she be willing to do it, rather than directly saying that you want to do it because she leaves icky stuff on the dishes when she washes them. I was thinking you first try instituting a new system that would be that both of you put dirty dishes in a dish pan for a soak in soapy water for a bit before washing. My thinking was that soaking in soapy water would hopefully eliminate some of the issues she is having with grease or crusty bits staying on the dishes, without you having to actually call her out on the issue. Get a dishpan plus make sure you have a sponge with a scrubby side, and also check which dish soap you use as well to see if you need to try an upgrade. Then try the new system and see how it goes. If there are still issues, you will have to do a more direct talk with her, sensitivity or not.
posted by gudrun at 2:42 PM on August 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
I don't think soft and diplomatic is the right approach. You need kind, direct, and brief. Point out the issue briefly and cheerfully, then move on without making a fuss or dwelling or debating or justifying or softening or complicated diplomacy.
Deal with your own emotions (resentment, disgust, exasperation) by yourself without expecting your housemate to resolve your feelings for you. And let your housemate deal with her own emotions by herself without you rescuing her from them or anticipating them or soothing her.
posted by MiraK at 3:36 PM on August 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
Deal with your own emotions (resentment, disgust, exasperation) by yourself without expecting your housemate to resolve your feelings for you. And let your housemate deal with her own emotions by herself without you rescuing her from them or anticipating them or soothing her.
posted by MiraK at 3:36 PM on August 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'm 100% with MiraK. I recognize that I can be really direct and say things that may be offensive or harmful at times but I yam who I yam and I make every effort to temper my directness with kindness and compassion.
A lot of times I don't even pick up on the fact that someone might be offended so you're already at an advantage in that you do.
posted by bendy at 9:04 PM on August 25, 2022
A lot of times I don't even pick up on the fact that someone might be offended so you're already at an advantage in that you do.
posted by bendy at 9:04 PM on August 25, 2022
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For the fingerprints, perhaps approach it as adding something to the cleaning routine? Or, I suppose to start 100% at square one, do you have a cleaning schedule? FlyLady has them, I'm sure there are other resources, but a cleaning agreement is common with roommates and might help here. Adding "Wipe all surfaces including appliances with Lysol cleaner to remove fingerprints and grime" to the list might help. You might have to specify the "to remove fingerprints and grime" part. People don't know, no matter how old they are, if they weren't ever taught, and maybe no one ever taught her?
Same with dishwashing, if she "washes" the dishes by using running water, maybe offer to teach her the right way. "Hey Roomie, I noticed we had some food left stuck to dishes so I replaced the scrubber since it was worn out. We have some dishes to do now, do you mind drying while I wash?"
Absolutely do not assume that someone taught her how to do all this stuff. LOTS of people were never taught how to clean properly (this is not something that just happens to men!).
posted by Medieval Maven at 7:51 AM on August 25, 2022 [7 favorites]