Neil Simon's - The Odd Trio
March 8, 2008 8:05 PM Subscribe
My housemate's are terrible slobs, to the point where I'm about to snap. What can I do?
Okay, I'm no Felix Unger, but my housemates would make Oscar Madison retch.
Neither of them seem to be capable of throwing things out, they leave dishes (99.8% of which belong to me) piled in the sink with food drying on them. One leaves bits of food all over the surface and floor when he eats. The floor of the ground floor is covered in bags of stuff from when one moved in in June. It's March now. The other's room exudes a smell of rot, body odor, and unknown things.
I've tried polite asks, angry rages, promises of rewards, threats of punishment... I'm about to take all the fucking dishes out of the cabinets and lock them in my room if they don't start cleaning them. The behavior does not change.
We move out in May. I'm worried we're not going to get our security deposit back. I'm thinking that the persistant cough that one has is a result of his appallaing living conditions in his room. What the hell can I do?
No, moving out is not an option. Don't even suggest it.
Okay, I'm no Felix Unger, but my housemates would make Oscar Madison retch.
Neither of them seem to be capable of throwing things out, they leave dishes (99.8% of which belong to me) piled in the sink with food drying on them. One leaves bits of food all over the surface and floor when he eats. The floor of the ground floor is covered in bags of stuff from when one moved in in June. It's March now. The other's room exudes a smell of rot, body odor, and unknown things.
I've tried polite asks, angry rages, promises of rewards, threats of punishment... I'm about to take all the fucking dishes out of the cabinets and lock them in my room if they don't start cleaning them. The behavior does not change.
We move out in May. I'm worried we're not going to get our security deposit back. I'm thinking that the persistant cough that one has is a result of his appallaing living conditions in his room. What the hell can I do?
No, moving out is not an option. Don't even suggest it.
Organize a weekly, bi-weekly or monthly cleaning lady, the cost of which could be split by the three of you?
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:10 PM on March 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:10 PM on March 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: ThePinkSuperhero - A nice idea, but we're barely making ends meet as is.
posted by SansPoint at 8:11 PM on March 8, 2008
posted by SansPoint at 8:11 PM on March 8, 2008
You're not getting that deposit back unless you clean everything yourself. Been there, done that.
posted by Krrrlson at 8:13 PM on March 8, 2008
posted by Krrrlson at 8:13 PM on March 8, 2008
Set a time to get the house in order. - "Hey, let's all clean the house this weekend, ok? Wait, you got plans for the weekend? ok, what other times work for you guys? Great, thursday evening. It's settled then".
For the unmoved boxes: "Hey Billy, you still need these bags? I am going to Goodwill later this week and i'll drop them off. Wait, you need them? Ok, thanks for organizing them elsewhere in the house"
After that works out, schedule something once every two weeks and say "Hey this time it should only take about 45 minutes. Would you rather wait another month and have this take 3 hours? Yeah I thought so. Saturday afternoon then?"
good luck.
posted by special-k at 8:23 PM on March 8, 2008
For the unmoved boxes: "Hey Billy, you still need these bags? I am going to Goodwill later this week and i'll drop them off. Wait, you need them? Ok, thanks for organizing them elsewhere in the house"
After that works out, schedule something once every two weeks and say "Hey this time it should only take about 45 minutes. Would you rather wait another month and have this take 3 hours? Yeah I thought so. Saturday afternoon then?"
good luck.
posted by special-k at 8:23 PM on March 8, 2008
Response by poster: special-k: "Set a time to get the house in order. - "Hey, let's all clean the house this weekend, ok? Wait, you got plans for the weekend? ok, what other times work for you guys? Great, thursday evening. It's settled then".
For the unmoved boxes: "Hey Billy, you still need these bags? I am going to Goodwill later this week and i'll drop them off. Wait, you need them? Ok, thanks for organizing them elsewhere in the house"
After that works out, schedule something once every two weeks and say "Hey this time it should only take about 45 minutes. Would you rather wait another month and have this take 3 hours? Yeah I thought so. Saturday afternoon then?"
good luck."
Tried that. No dice.
I'm not going to throw anyone's stuff out. I have a moral issue with that.
posted by SansPoint at 8:25 PM on March 8, 2008
For the unmoved boxes: "Hey Billy, you still need these bags? I am going to Goodwill later this week and i'll drop them off. Wait, you need them? Ok, thanks for organizing them elsewhere in the house"
After that works out, schedule something once every two weeks and say "Hey this time it should only take about 45 minutes. Would you rather wait another month and have this take 3 hours? Yeah I thought so. Saturday afternoon then?"
good luck."
Tried that. No dice.
I'm not going to throw anyone's stuff out. I have a moral issue with that.
posted by SansPoint at 8:25 PM on March 8, 2008
At this point, with you guys moving out so soon, I would not expect much from them, even if you talked to them. I would suggest getting assurances from them that they will help you clean the place when you move out, but I wouldn't count on it. Be prepared to do it yourself.
For your next roommate situation, I'd suggest talking about this from the get-go and creating a schedule. When I roomed with 3 other girls for s achool year, we kept a whiteboard on the fridge where all our chores were listed. Every weekend, one of us had to clean the bathroom. Individual cleanliness was not on there, but we did talk about it when we had the housework talk.
posted by DrGirlfriend at 8:25 PM on March 8, 2008
For your next roommate situation, I'd suggest talking about this from the get-go and creating a schedule. When I roomed with 3 other girls for s achool year, we kept a whiteboard on the fridge where all our chores were listed. Every weekend, one of us had to clean the bathroom. Individual cleanliness was not on there, but we did talk about it when we had the housework talk.
posted by DrGirlfriend at 8:25 PM on March 8, 2008
I had a dish-abandoner for a roommate and I only had any lasting success when I would pop in their room and say that I was going to help them get the sink cleared right then. As if to say "I know this is hard for you, so I'm going to help you out." And then we would scrub/wash/dry until it was done. If they really feel guilty and appreciate the help, it won't just enable them to keep things dirty and they'll do a little better. Your roommates seem pretty hopeless, though.
posted by cowbellemoo at 8:26 PM on March 8, 2008
posted by cowbellemoo at 8:26 PM on March 8, 2008
Best answer: I've never done this but I had a friend who managed a hostel and his rule was, "you don't clean it, it ends up in your bed". Anytime a plate was found with food on it, he'd put it in that person's bed and they quickly learned to clean it.
Although I guess since they're all your dishes, maybe you wouldn't be comfortable trying this.
posted by shokod at 8:27 PM on March 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
Although I guess since they're all your dishes, maybe you wouldn't be comfortable trying this.
posted by shokod at 8:27 PM on March 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
Well, the rages and threats didn't work. You "shot your cannons" as they say in the teaching trade. You've got nothing left to use as leverage, and you'll all be scattering to the winds at the end of May. Ain't nothing going to happen.
Why not give up on the damage deposit? How much are you yourself going to get back, anyway? If the rent on the house is $1000 a month, and the damage deposit is half a month's rent, that's $500. Divided three ways, that's 130 bucks and change each. Not much leverage either. I know it sounds like a lot when you are a student, but it's really not worth going to war over right now.
So save yourself some worry and stress, and forget about motivating the slobs you live with. Take it easy, and barricade yourself in your room like Howard Hughes (heh). And lock your dishes in there with you (might want to give them fair warning, first, though).
posted by KokuRyu at 8:27 PM on March 8, 2008
Why not give up on the damage deposit? How much are you yourself going to get back, anyway? If the rent on the house is $1000 a month, and the damage deposit is half a month's rent, that's $500. Divided three ways, that's 130 bucks and change each. Not much leverage either. I know it sounds like a lot when you are a student, but it's really not worth going to war over right now.
So save yourself some worry and stress, and forget about motivating the slobs you live with. Take it easy, and barricade yourself in your room like Howard Hughes (heh). And lock your dishes in there with you (might want to give them fair warning, first, though).
posted by KokuRyu at 8:27 PM on March 8, 2008
Response by poster: DrGirlfriend: "
For your next roommate situation, I'd suggest talking about this from the get-go and creating a schedule. When I roomed with 3 other girls for s achool year, we kept a whiteboard on the fridge where all our chores were listed. Every weekend, one of us had to clean the bathroom. Individual cleanliness was not on there, but we did talk about it when we had the housework talk."
Tried that too, in the beginning. No luck.
posted by SansPoint at 8:27 PM on March 8, 2008
For your next roommate situation, I'd suggest talking about this from the get-go and creating a schedule. When I roomed with 3 other girls for s achool year, we kept a whiteboard on the fridge where all our chores were listed. Every weekend, one of us had to clean the bathroom. Individual cleanliness was not on there, but we did talk about it when we had the housework talk."
Tried that too, in the beginning. No luck.
posted by SansPoint at 8:27 PM on March 8, 2008
Sorry... $500 split three ways is, like $166. Now, that's worth going to war over.
posted by KokuRyu at 8:28 PM on March 8, 2008
posted by KokuRyu at 8:28 PM on March 8, 2008
Been there, done that, still have bad dreams about it.
The most likely answer is that they are incorrigible slobs, and the only way to change things is to either kick them out or to move yourself out. Any hope of getting the deposit back rests fully with you (unless one of them has a SO who they can guilt-tripped into doing their share of the cleaning).
Really, they have shown their colors by now. If there was an easy way to make them clean, you would have found it.
When I lived with those guys, I ended up keeping all my household stuff (dishes, bathroom stuff, everything) in my room for the last month I lived there, because anything left in communal areas ended up under someone's bed covered in filth. It's a shitty way to live, but if you give your 30 days notice tomorrow it is only another 4 weeks.
posted by Forktine at 8:32 PM on March 8, 2008
The most likely answer is that they are incorrigible slobs, and the only way to change things is to either kick them out or to move yourself out. Any hope of getting the deposit back rests fully with you (unless one of them has a SO who they can guilt-tripped into doing their share of the cleaning).
Really, they have shown their colors by now. If there was an easy way to make them clean, you would have found it.
When I lived with those guys, I ended up keeping all my household stuff (dishes, bathroom stuff, everything) in my room for the last month I lived there, because anything left in communal areas ended up under someone's bed covered in filth. It's a shitty way to live, but if you give your 30 days notice tomorrow it is only another 4 weeks.
posted by Forktine at 8:32 PM on March 8, 2008
Anytime a plate was found with food on it, he'd put it in that person's bed and they quickly learned to clean it.
I had a terrible roommate once who would not clean ANYTHING, even if it were rotting in plain sight on a counter. Not like sorta-brown banana rotting, like full on black mold maggoty slime death pile. One time I got sick of it and figured if it was his mess it should be contained to his room, so I put his rotting dishes right inside his door.
He got really, really pissed but hey, after that he usually cleaned his dishes before they started attracting wildlife.
posted by bradbane at 8:33 PM on March 8, 2008
I had a terrible roommate once who would not clean ANYTHING, even if it were rotting in plain sight on a counter. Not like sorta-brown banana rotting, like full on black mold maggoty slime death pile. One time I got sick of it and figured if it was his mess it should be contained to his room, so I put his rotting dishes right inside his door.
He got really, really pissed but hey, after that he usually cleaned his dishes before they started attracting wildlife.
posted by bradbane at 8:33 PM on March 8, 2008
Live with it. May is two months away. Don't live with them again, next house set the ground rules early.
posted by mattoxic at 8:40 PM on March 8, 2008
posted by mattoxic at 8:40 PM on March 8, 2008
If you can't move out, and you can't hire a cleaning person, and you can't make them clean, your only choice is to protect yourself. Keep your things in your room, move their dirty dishes to a place where they aren't in your way when you want to wash yours (a bag or a box instead of the sink). Open their bedroom windows when they're out of the house to help with the smell, or buy a can of that odor eating spray stuff and go to town. Don't worry about the conditions of their rooms otherwise- you aren't their mother. Sounds like you may indeed lose your deposit- consider it payment for a lesson learned.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:41 PM on March 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:41 PM on March 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
Hide all of the dishes, etc. Stock the kitchen with paper plates, plastic cups, plastic utensils. Sure, it's bad for the environment, but it sounds like this may be the price to pay for your peace of mind, and you'll move out soon.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 8:51 PM on March 8, 2008
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 8:51 PM on March 8, 2008
It may be worth spending the last two days or so cleaning the hell out of the apartment to recover any fraction of the security deposit, assuming that:
1. You can get your roommates to sign over the remnants of the security deposit to you (may backfire if you get a hefty bill instead of a small check)
2. You can get your roommates to move out a day or two early
3. You can enlist some strong-nosed friends or hire some cheap labor to help you out
If you can somehow drag $200 out from the security deposit, and assuming $50 in chemicals/carpet cleaner rental, that's $75/day which is real-job-like money.
posted by meowzilla at 9:08 PM on March 8, 2008
1. You can get your roommates to sign over the remnants of the security deposit to you (may backfire if you get a hefty bill instead of a small check)
2. You can get your roommates to move out a day or two early
3. You can enlist some strong-nosed friends or hire some cheap labor to help you out
If you can somehow drag $200 out from the security deposit, and assuming $50 in chemicals/carpet cleaner rental, that's $75/day which is real-job-like money.
posted by meowzilla at 9:08 PM on March 8, 2008
You're not going to come out of this with a clean apartment + security deposit AND friends. It's one or the other.
Personally I would take the dishes away, and move the stuff sitting around in bags into their room when they're out. Just do it and say no more about it. Then get a big calendar and X off each day until May 1st. On April 29th clean the best you can.
posted by loiseau at 9:10 PM on March 8, 2008
Personally I would take the dishes away, and move the stuff sitting around in bags into their room when they're out. Just do it and say no more about it. Then get a big calendar and X off each day until May 1st. On April 29th clean the best you can.
posted by loiseau at 9:10 PM on March 8, 2008
These guys aren't going to change. You are not going to get your security deposit back. Assess how much you would lose if you suddenly left right now and how much money these LAZY people might try to get out of you. I would save some money up just in case and then get the fuck outta there. They don't seem like the type who could possibly muster the energy to come after you for rent. A friend was in the exact same state as you and she just up and left.
posted by Foam Pants at 9:22 PM on March 8, 2008
posted by Foam Pants at 9:22 PM on March 8, 2008
Some friends of mine living together had success by quantifying the effort of cleaning:
First they had a deep-and-meaningful in which the dirty party promised to do better. You said this happened to you too.
Second, they agreed on the value of washing up. It was basically some fixed number of dollars.
This method helped my friends. I suppose it would only work with people who like quantifying things. The idea of connecting money with housework may be distasteful to some people. (Personally, rotting food seems far more distasteful!) Will it work for you?
posted by hAndrew at 9:22 PM on March 8, 2008
First they had a deep-and-meaningful in which the dirty party promised to do better. You said this happened to you too.
Second, they agreed on the value of washing up. It was basically some fixed number of dollars.
This method helped my friends. I suppose it would only work with people who like quantifying things. The idea of connecting money with housework may be distasteful to some people. (Personally, rotting food seems far more distasteful!) Will it work for you?
posted by hAndrew at 9:22 PM on March 8, 2008
When I had filthy kitchen trouble: anything I found unwashed in the kitchen I would wash, dry and hide. I also hid all the dishes I used regularly myself. Pretty soon the number of dishes in circulation reduced itself to the point where the only way a slob could get one was to wash it first. It didn't change the slobs, but it limited the kitchen carnage, and I only had to wash each of their filthy leavings once.
Just throw out the bags of stuff that are cluttering up the common areas. If the slob that owns those hasn't needed to use them in nine months, he doesn't need them at all.
posted by flabdablet at 9:26 PM on March 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
Just throw out the bags of stuff that are cluttering up the common areas. If the slob that owns those hasn't needed to use them in nine months, he doesn't need them at all.
posted by flabdablet at 9:26 PM on March 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
meditate before you blow a gasket
if there is nothing you can do, instead focus on trying to relax about it
posted by Salvatorparadise at 9:34 PM on March 8, 2008 [2 favorites]
if there is nothing you can do, instead focus on trying to relax about it
posted by Salvatorparadise at 9:34 PM on March 8, 2008 [2 favorites]
God, I lived in this share-house with six to seven other people in college. Listen: you're getting a life experience, and the experience you're getting is, the majority of people are fucking worthless. The smartest people in that house were a couple who had all their own dishes and cookware and they cleaned it and took it back in their room with them when they were done. They had to, you know, work around the filth, but they never ended up doing what I ended up doing dozens of times - cleaning up after every other god-damned slob, washing all the "shared" dishes and utensils so I could make a fucking sandwich.
Unless you can throw them out or credibly charge them money there ain't shit you can do. Take anything that belongs to you and lock it up. When you're asked about what happened to all the dishes say "if you won't fucking clean it you can't fucking use it." Or put it more, uh, eloquently if you object to cursing. They'll survive. Stake out what space you can and hide out there when the filth overwhelms you. It won't kill you, so obviously it will make you stronger. You're going to lose your security deposit, deal with it. Wisdom and character, dead ahead!
posted by nanojath at 9:36 PM on March 8, 2008 [3 favorites]
Unless you can throw them out or credibly charge them money there ain't shit you can do. Take anything that belongs to you and lock it up. When you're asked about what happened to all the dishes say "if you won't fucking clean it you can't fucking use it." Or put it more, uh, eloquently if you object to cursing. They'll survive. Stake out what space you can and hide out there when the filth overwhelms you. It won't kill you, so obviously it will make you stronger. You're going to lose your security deposit, deal with it. Wisdom and character, dead ahead!
posted by nanojath at 9:36 PM on March 8, 2008 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Foam Pants: "These guys aren't going to change. You are not going to get your security deposit back. Assess how much you would lose if you suddenly left right now and how much money these LAZY people might try to get out of you. I would save some money up just in case and then get the fuck outta there. They don't seem like the type who could possibly muster the energy to come after you for rent. A friend was in the exact same state as you and she just up and left."
Well, I'm on the lease, as is my father, as is one housemate, and a former housemate. (See my previous AskMes for information about THAT.) I really CAN'T leave.
posted by SansPoint at 9:38 PM on March 8, 2008
Well, I'm on the lease, as is my father, as is one housemate, and a former housemate. (See my previous AskMes for information about THAT.) I really CAN'T leave.
posted by SansPoint at 9:38 PM on March 8, 2008
Best answer: You can only motivate them with 3 things (in order of effectiveness):
1) the respect they have for you - i.e. just because you want them to, or they don't want you to think they're shitbags.
2) you can make them see a significant benefit to them if they do what they want
3) you can bring a significant (to them) threat that you can and will go through with if they don't do what you want
Sounds like 1 is out. 2 is the deposit and whatever you can bribe them with. Bribes don't work in the long run, but maybe you can live with a deal where if they clean up once, you'll keep it that way in the common areas. Sounds like you can't think up a good 3.
Clean it yourself. Right now. Well, not their rooms. Just the common areas. Then become Felix Unger. Police them like their worst nightmare of a mom. "You done with that glass? Go put it in the dishwasher." "Whose beer bottle? Fucking slob, go throw it away." Keep pointing out that, no, they won't do it in a minute/when the show's over - you know because you had to clean up after their pig asses last time, and look at their rooms.
Also wash up your dishes and keep them in your room. They can't be trusted to treat them with respect.
They will not be your friends after a month and some change. If you care about that, you're just going to have to join them and lose the deposit.
posted by ctmf at 9:57 PM on March 8, 2008 [4 favorites]
1) the respect they have for you - i.e. just because you want them to, or they don't want you to think they're shitbags.
2) you can make them see a significant benefit to them if they do what they want
3) you can bring a significant (to them) threat that you can and will go through with if they don't do what you want
Sounds like 1 is out. 2 is the deposit and whatever you can bribe them with. Bribes don't work in the long run, but maybe you can live with a deal where if they clean up once, you'll keep it that way in the common areas. Sounds like you can't think up a good 3.
Clean it yourself. Right now. Well, not their rooms. Just the common areas. Then become Felix Unger. Police them like their worst nightmare of a mom. "You done with that glass? Go put it in the dishwasher." "Whose beer bottle? Fucking slob, go throw it away." Keep pointing out that, no, they won't do it in a minute/when the show's over - you know because you had to clean up after their pig asses last time, and look at their rooms.
Also wash up your dishes and keep them in your room. They can't be trusted to treat them with respect.
They will not be your friends after a month and some change. If you care about that, you're just going to have to join them and lose the deposit.
posted by ctmf at 9:57 PM on March 8, 2008 [4 favorites]
There's an old adage that goes like this:
You can't expect to change someone's behavior. You can only expect to change your reaction to that behavior.
I think that's true. I'd gather up your dishes (if they don't respect your personal property enough to clean it up after they've used it, they can go without) and shove the bags of stuff into the room of its owner. And then spend as little time as possible in the place. This too shall pass - it's only temporary.
posted by Ostara at 10:01 PM on March 8, 2008
You can't expect to change someone's behavior. You can only expect to change your reaction to that behavior.
I think that's true. I'd gather up your dishes (if they don't respect your personal property enough to clean it up after they've used it, they can go without) and shove the bags of stuff into the room of its owner. And then spend as little time as possible in the place. This too shall pass - it's only temporary.
posted by Ostara at 10:01 PM on March 8, 2008
This has happened to me twice in two different households. So far, the only thing that works is cleaning it myself.
posted by thebrokenmuse at 10:07 PM on March 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by thebrokenmuse at 10:07 PM on March 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
Roomates? As in plural? This is a battle you cannot win given the parameters which you have given.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:19 PM on March 8, 2008
posted by Ironmouth at 10:19 PM on March 8, 2008
Best answer: On preview, the plurality issue and the what-you-can-do issue have just been mentioned. But here's my two bits, er, maybe more like a piece of eight, anyway.
Your roommates are unquestionably endangering your health with their hygiene. Call your landlord and say so. Lay out the whole history. Lay out your legitimate doubts that these dudes will reform. Get them evicted if you like—at any rate, get them a serious talking-to from the person who can evict them.
If your landlord is hesitant to do this due to spineless imbecility (a surprisingly common affliction of landlords I've known), let him know that for what you pay you have a reasonable expectation of being able to use about a third of the floor, countertop, sink, etc., and if he doesn't give you some help getting those things you are going to start withholding rent (put it in escrow, don't just keep it in pocket, so your legal behind is covered).
I had two roommates once upon a time who could not operate a trash can when it was open two feet away from them, who did not fully comprehend even one of the Three Commandments of the Dishes,* and who enabled one another because each could conveniently remember that his fault was for, not the total mess, but some fortunately very small fraction thereof. Even when they moved out it went on: One moved to a neighboring apartment and felt no particularly pressing need to actually get all his stuff outta ours (eventually we broke into his new place and piled it all in his living room, and his new roommates realized what he was and cracked the whip). So I sympathize with you. And here is my experience with them: Nothing really works once they've gotten started—not reason, not pleading, not threats, not leaving it in their bed, not suggesting reasonable limits on how long a thing should stay dirty, not shaming; if you somehow make them do it they will do a crappy job—but some things sort of work, and that's what you've got to run with.
First of all, you have every right to control what's done with your own dishes. My non-slob roommate and I both withdrew large portions of our dish and utensil inventory from circulation. He just yanked his, unconditionally and without notice; I posted a sign that said, "If it's mine and you made me wash it [for you], it's gone. If it's mine and you haven't made me wash it, it's available, but you've got to ask first, each time." And I put 'em all in my room. You might expect this would lead to pilfering of the withdrawn dishes and whatnot, but it didn't, because this is basically a problem of laziness.
Second, you have every right to control what's done with the product of your labor, i.e., where you put the other dishes when you're done washing them. It needn't be in a very convenient spot. Quite a few dishes, which my roommates had found essential (to fill exactly the role that some other dish could have filled if they hadn't already left it filthy in the sink for days), turned out to be not essential after all (in that they stayed for the remaining months exactly where I chose to store them after I was forced to wash them, on the top shelf of a closet in another room). The location was named on the above-mentioned sign, so anyone could go and get them if he felt the need; in fact, I was the only one who ever did so, because, as mentioned, this is basically a problem of laziness.
Third, they'll cover for each other, but you don't have to provide any cover for them. That means that your crumbs get swept up immediately, your dishes get washed immediately after the meal (easiest anyway, because nothing's dried on), your things stay in your room.
Every apartment acquires messes that nobody will claim when asked (apparently there's some vagrant dude who breaks into apartments, blows food up in the microwave, eats off the dishes, leaves them in the sink, and sneaks out, and the freaky part is how accurately he targets irresponsible bachelors' places for this), but you've got to be impeccable about this so that there is no chance any of the problem is actually yours. If there's enough of other people's mess for one of your roommates to lose track of his own mess among it, he's not going to particularly strain himself to recall one more item he probably ought to clean, because, after all, this is basically a problem of laziness. But if you can guarantee that all of it belongs to one or the other of them, through your cleaning behavior too obvious and constant to miss, maybe, just maybe, after you've physically separated the crap that each one will claim, logic will compel one of them to look at the 40% of the crap that's still sitting there and realize that he's got a problem and he's been in denial.
You shouldn't have to put up with this, but you do. Good luck minimizing the imposition. And pray their next roommate is half Felix Unger and half Bruce Banner.
"I hate mess, and I remember feeling incredibly strong." "You wouldn't like me getting angry ... and a low sugar condition." "My dear, you should never assume. When you assume ... ROOOOAAAAAAARRRGHHWLLLAAAAAA!" "I can't control it. I could have a change and I suppose you wouldn't like me when I'm angry. I hate mess and I went to choke you. Let this be on your head." "Oh, Oscar, Oscar, Oscar! ... you wouldn't like me sick. There are things growing under there! I could have killed you." (text mashed by Dr. Nerve's Markov Page, quotes from IMDB)
* The Three Commandments of the Dishes:
I. Thou shalt wash thy dishes.
II. Thou shalt wash thy dishes promptly.
III. Thou shalt wash thy dishes until they are clean.
posted by eritain at 10:41 PM on March 8, 2008 [4 favorites]
Your roommates are unquestionably endangering your health with their hygiene. Call your landlord and say so. Lay out the whole history. Lay out your legitimate doubts that these dudes will reform. Get them evicted if you like—at any rate, get them a serious talking-to from the person who can evict them.
If your landlord is hesitant to do this due to spineless imbecility (a surprisingly common affliction of landlords I've known), let him know that for what you pay you have a reasonable expectation of being able to use about a third of the floor, countertop, sink, etc., and if he doesn't give you some help getting those things you are going to start withholding rent (put it in escrow, don't just keep it in pocket, so your legal behind is covered).
I had two roommates once upon a time who could not operate a trash can when it was open two feet away from them, who did not fully comprehend even one of the Three Commandments of the Dishes,
First of all, you have every right to control what's done with your own dishes. My non-slob roommate and I both withdrew large portions of our dish and utensil inventory from circulation. He just yanked his, unconditionally and without notice; I posted a sign that said, "If it's mine and you made me wash it [for you], it's gone. If it's mine and you haven't made me wash it, it's available, but you've got to ask first, each time." And I put 'em all in my room. You might expect this would lead to pilfering of the withdrawn dishes and whatnot, but it didn't, because this is basically a problem of laziness.
Second, you have every right to control what's done with the product of your labor, i.e., where you put the other dishes when you're done washing them. It needn't be in a very convenient spot. Quite a few dishes, which my roommates had found essential (to fill exactly the role that some other dish could have filled if they hadn't already left it filthy in the sink for days), turned out to be not essential after all (in that they stayed for the remaining months exactly where I chose to store them after I was forced to wash them, on the top shelf of a closet in another room). The location was named on the above-mentioned sign, so anyone could go and get them if he felt the need; in fact, I was the only one who ever did so, because, as mentioned, this is basically a problem of laziness.
Third, they'll cover for each other, but you don't have to provide any cover for them. That means that your crumbs get swept up immediately, your dishes get washed immediately after the meal (easiest anyway, because nothing's dried on), your things stay in your room.
Every apartment acquires messes that nobody will claim when asked (apparently there's some vagrant dude who breaks into apartments, blows food up in the microwave, eats off the dishes, leaves them in the sink, and sneaks out, and the freaky part is how accurately he targets irresponsible bachelors' places for this), but you've got to be impeccable about this so that there is no chance any of the problem is actually yours. If there's enough of other people's mess for one of your roommates to lose track of his own mess among it, he's not going to particularly strain himself to recall one more item he probably ought to clean, because, after all, this is basically a problem of laziness. But if you can guarantee that all of it belongs to one or the other of them, through your cleaning behavior too obvious and constant to miss, maybe, just maybe, after you've physically separated the crap that each one will claim, logic will compel one of them to look at the 40% of the crap that's still sitting there and realize that he's got a problem and he's been in denial.
You shouldn't have to put up with this, but you do. Good luck minimizing the imposition. And pray their next roommate is half Felix Unger and half Bruce Banner.
"I hate mess, and I remember feeling incredibly strong." "You wouldn't like me getting angry ... and a low sugar condition." "My dear, you should never assume. When you assume ... ROOOOAAAAAAARRRGHHWLLLAAAAAA!" "I can't control it. I could have a change and I suppose you wouldn't like me when I'm angry. I hate mess and I went to choke you. Let this be on your head." "Oh, Oscar, Oscar, Oscar! ... you wouldn't like me sick. There are things growing under there! I could have killed you." (text mashed by Dr. Nerve's Markov Page, quotes from IMDB)
I. Thou shalt wash thy dishes.
II. Thou shalt wash thy dishes promptly.
III. Thou shalt wash thy dishes until they are clean.
posted by eritain at 10:41 PM on March 8, 2008 [4 favorites]
If this is in university-student-ghetto housing, I'm sorry to tell you that there's a significant chance you won't get the deposit back no matter what you do. (Even if you clean it all up yourself the day the others move out.) It's routine to just stiff univeristy-student renters on the deposit and then maybe pony up if one of the students takes it to small claims court (though in most cases the students leave town and can't afford to return to sue). I mean, don't let me stop you from trying, but be aware now that you shouldn't make plans that depend on you getting that money back.
posted by LobsterMitten at 11:52 PM on March 8, 2008
posted by LobsterMitten at 11:52 PM on March 8, 2008
Have some hot girls come over (I assume they're both guys and heterosexual). Have these girls get totally and utterly disgusted and walk out. Shouldn't take too much acting, it sounds like. Best if they can make it seem like they were about to get some, uh, attention, but the pigsty was a deal breaker.
posted by ctmf at 12:00 AM on March 9, 2008
posted by ctmf at 12:00 AM on March 9, 2008
I'm mystified by a comment above that the landlord would care about a roommate dispute. That's for you and your roomies.
Now, I've been the Oscar character in a previous roommate situation, and I can say this. It's unlikely you are going to change your roommates' behavior.
My recommendation - line up a new place or learn to deal with the roomies. Don't be a pushover, don't let them trash your stuff, but at the same time, don't bother trying to be their mom. Life's too short, and it won't work.
posted by zippy at 12:51 AM on March 9, 2008
Now, I've been the Oscar character in a previous roommate situation, and I can say this. It's unlikely you are going to change your roommates' behavior.
My recommendation - line up a new place or learn to deal with the roomies. Don't be a pushover, don't let them trash your stuff, but at the same time, don't bother trying to be their mom. Life's too short, and it won't work.
posted by zippy at 12:51 AM on March 9, 2008
props to eritain.
In the past I have been the victim and the guilty. As the guilty I can say that I didn´t intend harm but it was easier than change. And its unhappy on either side.
Therefore, you have to make make what you want as easy as what they are currently doing. Creativity is your friend! Tell your roommates you are taking action to protect the bond, your sanity, your friendship (?) and most importantly your dreams of an awesome pad.
Take out all the cutlery & crockery except for one item each. Then there can only ever be 3 dirty plates, 3 dirty cups, 3 dirty spoons etc. Put a big basin of soapy/actively sterilised water on the bench as the holding zone. If this doesn´t work, replace everything with disposables. Cover the floor with plastic like a gangster scene. Make a wall of the bags in the corner. Give the smelly roommate an air purifier so the smell doesn´t leak. Bring ctmf´s hot girls. Hold a party. Hold another party. Don´t apologise for anything, ever, to yourself, to your roommates, or to anyone who visits. Just smile and laugh and pretend you don´t see it. This is war!
Send your previous messages, texts and email to passiveaggressivenotes.com. Feel good about it.
posted by wonderfool at 1:10 AM on March 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
In the past I have been the victim and the guilty. As the guilty I can say that I didn´t intend harm but it was easier than change. And its unhappy on either side.
Therefore, you have to make make what you want as easy as what they are currently doing. Creativity is your friend! Tell your roommates you are taking action to protect the bond, your sanity, your friendship (?) and most importantly your dreams of an awesome pad.
Take out all the cutlery & crockery except for one item each. Then there can only ever be 3 dirty plates, 3 dirty cups, 3 dirty spoons etc. Put a big basin of soapy/actively sterilised water on the bench as the holding zone. If this doesn´t work, replace everything with disposables. Cover the floor with plastic like a gangster scene. Make a wall of the bags in the corner. Give the smelly roommate an air purifier so the smell doesn´t leak. Bring ctmf´s hot girls. Hold a party. Hold another party. Don´t apologise for anything, ever, to yourself, to your roommates, or to anyone who visits. Just smile and laugh and pretend you don´t see it. This is war!
Send your previous messages, texts and email to passiveaggressivenotes.com. Feel good about it.
posted by wonderfool at 1:10 AM on March 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
Entirely agree with wonderfool-- put all your dishes in a box in your room-- leave them one bowl, fork, knife and spoon each. Let desperation be their motivation.
posted by Static Vagabond at 5:15 AM on March 9, 2008
posted by Static Vagabond at 5:15 AM on March 9, 2008
Regarding the deposit, use this handy New York trick: If it is equal to a month's rent, don't pay the last month and instruct your landlord to use the deposit. I don't know anyone here who has ever attempted to get the money back from their landlord because it is hopeless. Use the upper hand you still have.
posted by dame at 8:24 AM on March 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by dame at 8:24 AM on March 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
Honestly, I think a lot of this advice would have been great in, say, August of last year. But you've lived with them like this, in this exact manner, for the better part of a year, and what's more, you're about to move out. If they haven't changed in almost ten months, they're not gonna see any reason to change for the remaining two and a half.
Clean the dishes and hide them in your room. Buy paper ones for the kitchen if you're feeling nice; otherwise let them fend for themselves. Take the one guy's bags and put them inside his room. Do this with other clutter, if you want. Beyond that, I really don't think you're going to change these guys. They're fucking gross, end of story.
You said
For your next roommate situation, I'd suggest talking about this from the get-go and creating a schedule.
Tried that too, in the beginning. No luck.
Next time, get references from former roommates. And agree that if they don't clean, they owe you cash, and write it all down and sign it.
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:07 AM on March 9, 2008
Clean the dishes and hide them in your room. Buy paper ones for the kitchen if you're feeling nice; otherwise let them fend for themselves. Take the one guy's bags and put them inside his room. Do this with other clutter, if you want. Beyond that, I really don't think you're going to change these guys. They're fucking gross, end of story.
You said
For your next roommate situation, I'd suggest talking about this from the get-go and creating a schedule.
Tried that too, in the beginning. No luck.
Next time, get references from former roommates. And agree that if they don't clean, they owe you cash, and write it all down and sign it.
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:07 AM on March 9, 2008
I lived in a somewhat similar situation for a year, although I had a single slob roommate and a single normal, respectable roommate.
In my case, I just hoarded my dishes and spent as much time outside of the house (or in my room) as possible. My situation was drastically different because the slob wanted the deposit more than I did, so I basically signed my share away in exchange for letting him manage the cleanup. In your situation you may be able to get them to sign their share away if you're willing to put up with the work.
Check out your state's tenant laws! In my state, if the landlord doesn't give you your deposit back (or an itemized explanation of why you aren't getting it all returned, or a fraction thereof) within 60 days, they have no right to dispute it and must pay it in entirety or risk treble damages. In another renting situation it paid off for me to basically keep quiet for 60 days and send a nice letter containing an explanation of the law afterward.
Back to the slob: my decent roommate and I basically ended up shunning the slob, going out on weekends with our friends without giving him an invite, hanging out in each other's room to watch movies, play video games, etc. You can't do exactly this but you can make it clear that they're too disgusting to be around.
posted by lordaych at 9:58 AM on March 9, 2008
In my case, I just hoarded my dishes and spent as much time outside of the house (or in my room) as possible. My situation was drastically different because the slob wanted the deposit more than I did, so I basically signed my share away in exchange for letting him manage the cleanup. In your situation you may be able to get them to sign their share away if you're willing to put up with the work.
Check out your state's tenant laws! In my state, if the landlord doesn't give you your deposit back (or an itemized explanation of why you aren't getting it all returned, or a fraction thereof) within 60 days, they have no right to dispute it and must pay it in entirety or risk treble damages. In another renting situation it paid off for me to basically keep quiet for 60 days and send a nice letter containing an explanation of the law afterward.
Back to the slob: my decent roommate and I basically ended up shunning the slob, going out on weekends with our friends without giving him an invite, hanging out in each other's room to watch movies, play video games, etc. You can't do exactly this but you can make it clear that they're too disgusting to be around.
posted by lordaych at 9:58 AM on March 9, 2008
Similar to what wonderfool suggests: Give each roomate a plate, glass and bowl. Use nail polish to write their initials on the underside. New rule: You can only use your own dishes. Remove all other dishes, glasses, pots, etc. and reduce cutlery. Now the mess can only get so bad, and even better, if you clean your plate, it will be clean the next time you want to use it.
We had to do this in a house I lived in where we were all guilty of being slobs on occasion. The place wasn't spotless after this policy, but it was an order of magnitude better. The territorial approach (this is mine, don't touch it) must be built-in at some basic level. Everyone "gets" it.
posted by kamelhoecker at 11:23 AM on March 9, 2008
We had to do this in a house I lived in where we were all guilty of being slobs on occasion. The place wasn't spotless after this policy, but it was an order of magnitude better. The territorial approach (this is mine, don't touch it) must be built-in at some basic level. Everyone "gets" it.
posted by kamelhoecker at 11:23 AM on March 9, 2008
I said this in another post, but I think it bears repeating. It's expands on skokod's advice:
When I lived with three guys, here is how we did the dishes (we tried to eat together as much as we could and had no dishwashing machine):
The order of dish duty was the order you moved in.
1. Shazaam
2. Porky
3. Morrissey
4. Rerun
When it was your turn to wash dishes, the way you made it Not Your Turn was to wash one thing that you did not use. That meant when it was Shazaam's turn and Porky ate a pudding cup with a metal spoon, Shazaam washed that dish as soon as he could, so it became Porky's turn to do dishes. Likewise, Porky was on the lookout for something to wash so that he could get off the hook ASAP by making it Morrissey's turn.
It kept us on our toes, looking for chores to do, instead of just sitting around, waiting for someone else to do it.
And if you slacked, and the sink filled up, dirty dishes were placed on your bed.
posted by 4ster at 9:05 PM on March 9, 2008 [3 favorites]
When I lived with three guys, here is how we did the dishes (we tried to eat together as much as we could and had no dishwashing machine):
The order of dish duty was the order you moved in.
1. Shazaam
2. Porky
3. Morrissey
4. Rerun
When it was your turn to wash dishes, the way you made it Not Your Turn was to wash one thing that you did not use. That meant when it was Shazaam's turn and Porky ate a pudding cup with a metal spoon, Shazaam washed that dish as soon as he could, so it became Porky's turn to do dishes. Likewise, Porky was on the lookout for something to wash so that he could get off the hook ASAP by making it Morrissey's turn.
It kept us on our toes, looking for chores to do, instead of just sitting around, waiting for someone else to do it.
And if you slacked, and the sink filled up, dirty dishes were placed on your bed.
posted by 4ster at 9:05 PM on March 9, 2008 [3 favorites]
Seconding what most people have said:
Take any kitchen things belonging to you out of circulation. If you want to be nice, you can do the sign route and remove things as they are left dirty. If they want plates and utensils, they can go to the dollar store and buy them or use paper plates and plastic utensils.
Everything that does not belong in the common areas gets tossed in the offender's bedroom. For your own sanity, you'll probably want to do a thorough dust/wash/vacuum after you finish hauling junk into their rooms. If they want their bedrooms to be filthy and smelly, fine.
4ster, I love your dishwashing system. I think it's too late for the OP to do this, but that's a genius way to get a bunch of dudes to wash the dishes -- competition. (Not dude-ist)
posted by desuetude at 10:30 AM on March 10, 2008
Take any kitchen things belonging to you out of circulation. If you want to be nice, you can do the sign route and remove things as they are left dirty. If they want plates and utensils, they can go to the dollar store and buy them or use paper plates and plastic utensils.
Everything that does not belong in the common areas gets tossed in the offender's bedroom. For your own sanity, you'll probably want to do a thorough dust/wash/vacuum after you finish hauling junk into their rooms. If they want their bedrooms to be filthy and smelly, fine.
4ster, I love your dishwashing system. I think it's too late for the OP to do this, but that's a genius way to get a bunch of dudes to wash the dishes -- competition. (Not dude-ist)
posted by desuetude at 10:30 AM on March 10, 2008
Seconding Dame—your security deposit is lost. Don't pay the last month's rent and let the other fuckos throw in to earn that cash back.
posted by klangklangston at 12:44 PM on March 10, 2008
posted by klangklangston at 12:44 PM on March 10, 2008
I'm not saying a landlord is gonna take an interest in just any roomie dispute. But this one, if they're as messy as OP says they are, is devaluing his property. He may just care about that.
posted by eritain at 8:33 PM on March 20, 2008
posted by eritain at 8:33 PM on March 20, 2008
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posted by SansPoint at 8:08 PM on March 8, 2008