Regaining trust in a relationship
August 23, 2022 7:43 PM Subscribe
My partner and I are trying to navigate some difficult discussions about our shared future. In the past, he has made promises to me that he was eventually unable/unwilling to keep, dealing a huge blow to my trust in him. He recently admitted that he was terrified of losing our relationship, to the point that, in the moment, he would say or do nearly anything to make me stay. He knows this is an issue he has to deal with himself and he is already seeing a counsellor, but in the meantime... where do I go from here?
This is the same boyfriend I've previously posted about, who wasn't ready to move to Canada with me - which was totally fair and understandable! But it was a dealbreaker for me. When I'd told him so, he gave in and said he would change his grad school plans to study near me, but in the end, after months of maintaining that this was his intent, he wasn't able to bring himself to do it (When it came time to actually make the decision, he completely shut down for a week and I had to load the damn website for his chosen US grad program on my own computer and make him click "Accept" to end our shared misery.) There are other smaller examples of this behaviour of his, but this is the one that looms the largest and stings the most to me.
So now it looks like we'd be in a long-distance relationship for at least 2 years (which is as long as we've been together) before we will be together again, and even that would be uncertain (He says he'll get his degree and find a job here, but what if he can't find a job right away? What if he ends up deciding, again very reasonably, he wants to start his career in the place where he went to school and made all his contacts?)
The promises he made were, I believe, in good faith with zero maliciousness or deceptive intent. He is a sweet, caring, funny person who loves me a lot and we've had a lot of good times since all this happened despite all the uncertainty, but I still get the feeling that, if I'd known 4 months ago this was where we were going to end up, I would have ended things right then and there, for better or for worse. (FWIW, I do have a tendency to want to shut things down when I don't have complete control of a situation, so I'm not sure if this is actually a good indicator of anything.)
Some days it feels like this could really work, if we held on and we figured out how to communicate honestly with each other; other days I want to blow everything up just so I can feel like I'm in control of the situation and I've DONE something about it, at least. I don't want to be constantly guarding my heart against disappointment. I want to be able to love and trust my partner fully, but it's hard for me to not feel wary of anything he says, at this point. Is there any way we can try and repair our relationship, especially when we are going to be apart for so long?
This is the same boyfriend I've previously posted about, who wasn't ready to move to Canada with me - which was totally fair and understandable! But it was a dealbreaker for me. When I'd told him so, he gave in and said he would change his grad school plans to study near me, but in the end, after months of maintaining that this was his intent, he wasn't able to bring himself to do it (When it came time to actually make the decision, he completely shut down for a week and I had to load the damn website for his chosen US grad program on my own computer and make him click "Accept" to end our shared misery.) There are other smaller examples of this behaviour of his, but this is the one that looms the largest and stings the most to me.
So now it looks like we'd be in a long-distance relationship for at least 2 years (which is as long as we've been together) before we will be together again, and even that would be uncertain (He says he'll get his degree and find a job here, but what if he can't find a job right away? What if he ends up deciding, again very reasonably, he wants to start his career in the place where he went to school and made all his contacts?)
The promises he made were, I believe, in good faith with zero maliciousness or deceptive intent. He is a sweet, caring, funny person who loves me a lot and we've had a lot of good times since all this happened despite all the uncertainty, but I still get the feeling that, if I'd known 4 months ago this was where we were going to end up, I would have ended things right then and there, for better or for worse. (FWIW, I do have a tendency to want to shut things down when I don't have complete control of a situation, so I'm not sure if this is actually a good indicator of anything.)
Some days it feels like this could really work, if we held on and we figured out how to communicate honestly with each other; other days I want to blow everything up just so I can feel like I'm in control of the situation and I've DONE something about it, at least. I don't want to be constantly guarding my heart against disappointment. I want to be able to love and trust my partner fully, but it's hard for me to not feel wary of anything he says, at this point. Is there any way we can try and repair our relationship, especially when we are going to be apart for so long?
It doesn't sound like he has the emotional strength or stamina to be how you need him to be. I'm envisioning a fundamentally conflict-avoidant, even meek person, responding to what amounts to an aggressive ultimatum from the person he loves, because he can't manage to admit this won't work. I'd break up with him as an act of kindness, because I can't imagine either of you changing much, and that's actually okay.
posted by StrikeTheViol at 7:59 PM on August 23, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by StrikeTheViol at 7:59 PM on August 23, 2022 [5 favorites]
Okay, from your post it's clear your partner is desperate to keep the relationship. But you? You haven't expressed any desire to be with him. In fact it seems like you want to end things with him yesterday. (Or four months ago.) Where's your enthusiasm for staying with him?
I'm not saying this so you can write a comment here defensively or frantically or sincerely reassuring us about how much he means to you and how badly you want to stay with him. I'm saying this to point out what you wrote up here. Pause for a second. Listen to yourself. Read what you're trying to tell yourself.
posted by MiraK at 8:02 PM on August 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm not saying this so you can write a comment here defensively or frantically or sincerely reassuring us about how much he means to you and how badly you want to stay with him. I'm saying this to point out what you wrote up here. Pause for a second. Listen to yourself. Read what you're trying to tell yourself.
posted by MiraK at 8:02 PM on August 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
Hear me now: if he can’t make a decision on school, or moving, or anything in that general area, there’s no way he’ll be able to commit serious, reliable thought to the questions your relationship brings. I’m not even talking “you must plan out your path for the next 20 years” — I’m talking about “shit or get off the pot.” Because these are not just decisions that will affect his own home and finances and credit history and free time: NOTHING you do will nudge him to the point where he will get that lightbulb moment and change it all. It‘s just not going to happen. And if, by some amazing chance, it does, it‘ll be too late to use that knowledge on a relationship with you that has no solid foundation of trust.
I‘m sorry.
Signed,
Gal On Her Second Marriage Who Is Never Ever Ever Going Back There Ever Again
posted by St. Hubbins at 8:06 PM on August 23, 2022 [5 favorites]
I‘m sorry.
Signed,
Gal On Her Second Marriage Who Is Never Ever Ever Going Back There Ever Again
posted by St. Hubbins at 8:06 PM on August 23, 2022 [5 favorites]
Breaking up doesn't need to be acrimonious. You can acknowledge that you love each other, that your time together has been rewarding and enriched both your lives, but it's not a forever thing -- at least not right now. Break up. If, in two years, you're both free and want to see where things go, great! In the mean time, enjoy every opportunity your new life presents you. Neither of you deserve this uncertainty.
posted by kate4914 at 8:35 PM on August 23, 2022 [29 favorites]
posted by kate4914 at 8:35 PM on August 23, 2022 [29 favorites]
You aren’t the priority for him. You are A priority, but not THE priority. And that isn’t going to change. I’m sorry, sometimes relationships are like 90% really good and only 10% not good, but this is a major 10% that will expand to be a larger and larger part of any relationship you try to maintain. He is really hoping YOU will be the one to make him and his happiness your number one priority, but please don’t. Live the life you want to live, and choose to share it with someone as committed to you as you are to them.
posted by saucysault at 8:55 PM on August 23, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by saucysault at 8:55 PM on August 23, 2022 [10 favorites]
if I'd known 4 months ago this was where we were going to end up, I would have ended things right then and there
and you would have been right to do so, because the logistics of this arrangement don't make sense, and his priorities aren't aligned with yours. What's changed?
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:56 PM on August 23, 2022 [7 favorites]
and you would have been right to do so, because the logistics of this arrangement don't make sense, and his priorities aren't aligned with yours. What's changed?
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:56 PM on August 23, 2022 [7 favorites]
Without looking at your posting history, I agree with the above, largely. It is possible to break up, not hate each other over it, and if in two or three years neither of you fell in love with someone else, and he matured a good deal, you can give it another try, Things fade, alternatives exclude.
posted by vrakatar at 9:10 PM on August 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by vrakatar at 9:10 PM on August 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
It’s ok to make decisions about your relationship based on your actual experience of it and of him. You don’t need to base your decisions on the relationship it could be. You don’t need to wait and see if he steps up. If you’re unsatisfied in this relationship, have differing goals, and find yourself defending his intentions rather than his actions… giving it more time and hope won’t likely result in the life you want.
posted by theotherdurassister at 9:17 PM on August 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by theotherdurassister at 9:17 PM on August 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
It took me so long to learn to pay at least as much attention to behavior as to words. His actions are more truthful than his words.
posted by theora55 at 9:31 PM on August 23, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 9:31 PM on August 23, 2022 [9 favorites]
You need to break up with him. He sounds 100% sweet and kind and well-meaning AND ALSO he’s not able to be the person that’s right for you right now. You have so much opportunity ahead of you. Change is hard and scary but sometimes it’s the right thing and it sounds like this is one of those times.
posted by mekily at 9:58 PM on August 23, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by mekily at 9:58 PM on August 23, 2022 [4 favorites]
A couple I know consists of one driven woman and one meek, conflict-avoidant man. They stuck together and married. Now? The woman makes all the decisions about everything they do, from their weekend plans to their trips abroad to the house they bought to when they got married to every detail of their wedding. Even what field he should go into after college and where he should apply for jobs.
Every single thing in their shared life (and HIS life), she has to get her husband to agree to while he kicks his feet, procrastinates and prevaricates. He also lies to her about small to medium to big things- so he will say he has booked x when he hasn’t yet, leading to x no longer being available and him having to confess to his wife so she has to find a different option at the last minute. Or he knows him being ill might ruin her plans so he hides his symptoms so she won’t get mad, until the weekend away and then everyone gets sick anyway.
I’m sure they’re both miserable. She exhausted and betrayed from doing all the work of running their lives while he subtly undermines her. He of being constantly badgered and second-guessed and nagged because of his history of lying and passively disrupting things. He benefits from her decisions and I’m sure would not have the material success he currently has without her, due to his extreme passivity and lack of drive.. But he doesn’t thank her for what she’s done for him, and deep down I think he resents her and his only way of managing that while avoiding conflict at all costs is to lie and then allow the consequences of his lie to unfold once it’s too late.
Sound familiar? This couple have had this pattern from day 1 of their relationship when they got together as teenagers and it is firmly entrenched. They are together for better or worse, married, own a home and pets. They won’t change. Their lives are (to me) completely blighted by this eternal pattern which seems impossible to resolve without one of them leaving the other. But they love each other and this is just how life is for them now. They’ve chosen to live like this- do you want to?
posted by Balthamos at 12:34 AM on August 24, 2022 [37 favorites]
Every single thing in their shared life (and HIS life), she has to get her husband to agree to while he kicks his feet, procrastinates and prevaricates. He also lies to her about small to medium to big things- so he will say he has booked x when he hasn’t yet, leading to x no longer being available and him having to confess to his wife so she has to find a different option at the last minute. Or he knows him being ill might ruin her plans so he hides his symptoms so she won’t get mad, until the weekend away and then everyone gets sick anyway.
I’m sure they’re both miserable. She exhausted and betrayed from doing all the work of running their lives while he subtly undermines her. He of being constantly badgered and second-guessed and nagged because of his history of lying and passively disrupting things. He benefits from her decisions and I’m sure would not have the material success he currently has without her, due to his extreme passivity and lack of drive.. But he doesn’t thank her for what she’s done for him, and deep down I think he resents her and his only way of managing that while avoiding conflict at all costs is to lie and then allow the consequences of his lie to unfold once it’s too late.
Sound familiar? This couple have had this pattern from day 1 of their relationship when they got together as teenagers and it is firmly entrenched. They are together for better or worse, married, own a home and pets. They won’t change. Their lives are (to me) completely blighted by this eternal pattern which seems impossible to resolve without one of them leaving the other. But they love each other and this is just how life is for them now. They’ve chosen to live like this- do you want to?
posted by Balthamos at 12:34 AM on August 24, 2022 [37 favorites]
The right person will want to be with you. Words are cheap but it when it comes to action, this one won’t follow through and you’ll continually have to browbeat him into pretty much everything.
Basically what you see is what you get here, this thing is you won’t accept who he is because rightly so, you expect more. He’s not capable of being who you want him to be, so this is going to be your life. If you’re ok with that, then fine. But it doesn’t sound like you are and the only person who can change that is you because as you know, he’ll pretty much tell you what you want to hear and never follow through.
It’s been four months and probably that many questions from you about him. How much more time do you want to spend like this? I’m sorry, I’m sure he’s a great guy. But he’s not great for you.
posted by Jubey at 12:44 AM on August 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
Basically what you see is what you get here, this thing is you won’t accept who he is because rightly so, you expect more. He’s not capable of being who you want him to be, so this is going to be your life. If you’re ok with that, then fine. But it doesn’t sound like you are and the only person who can change that is you because as you know, he’ll pretty much tell you what you want to hear and never follow through.
It’s been four months and probably that many questions from you about him. How much more time do you want to spend like this? I’m sorry, I’m sure he’s a great guy. But he’s not great for you.
posted by Jubey at 12:44 AM on August 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
He recently admitted that he was terrified of losing our relationship, to the point that, in the moment, he would say or do nearly anything to make me stay.
There are two problems here. One is the above statement, the other is compatible priorities.
He's not able to be honest about his needs or wants. He may not intend to be malicious but the effect is the same - you cannot trust his words and as a result trust has been eroded. And there is no good faith basis to rebuild it because he simply can't be different right now. To change that about himself would require a very serious commitment to therapy.
But in addition, even if he learns to be honest with you about his needs and wants, based on your posting history, it seems likely that his priorities are incompatible with yours. So once he is able to honestly articulate his needs and wants you'd both have to acknowledge that they are not compatible with yours.
By being honest with yourself here, you'll save yourself a lot of pain and frustration.
posted by koahiatamadl at 2:48 AM on August 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
There are two problems here. One is the above statement, the other is compatible priorities.
He's not able to be honest about his needs or wants. He may not intend to be malicious but the effect is the same - you cannot trust his words and as a result trust has been eroded. And there is no good faith basis to rebuild it because he simply can't be different right now. To change that about himself would require a very serious commitment to therapy.
But in addition, even if he learns to be honest with you about his needs and wants, based on your posting history, it seems likely that his priorities are incompatible with yours. So once he is able to honestly articulate his needs and wants you'd both have to acknowledge that they are not compatible with yours.
By being honest with yourself here, you'll save yourself a lot of pain and frustration.
posted by koahiatamadl at 2:48 AM on August 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
He does not want to move to Canada. He might move there anyway, but I think the chances are less than 50%. If he does move, he will probably find it difficult and he may well abandon the attempt or be really unhappy or both. The chances of this having a happy ending in Canada are really small.
The easiest way of finding someone who is happy to be in a non-long-distance relationship with in wherever you're going to in Canada, is to meet someone already living in the Canadian city you are moving to.
Just because he will say do/something stupid to try to keep a relationship going when it would probably be better to let it go, doesn't mean you have to do the same.
posted by plonkee at 4:11 AM on August 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
The easiest way of finding someone who is happy to be in a non-long-distance relationship with in wherever you're going to in Canada, is to meet someone already living in the Canadian city you are moving to.
Just because he will say do/something stupid to try to keep a relationship going when it would probably be better to let it go, doesn't mean you have to do the same.
posted by plonkee at 4:11 AM on August 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
It seems to me that, on some level, he knows that if he stalls or refuses to decide, then he’s going to get his way. Like you said: come to Canada with me or we have to break up because I don’t want to do long distance. He got the benefit of *seemingly* like he was picking your relationship and not breaking up and you got…a long distance relationship. This shit is fundamentally unfair. You mention that it “stings.” Aren’t you furious? I am asking because when we are with someone who is so “nice” sometimes it’s harder to acknowledge and feel our negative emotions. But those emotions are valid.
posted by CMcG at 4:40 AM on August 24, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by CMcG at 4:40 AM on August 24, 2022 [8 favorites]
It sounds like you made the decision to break up unless he was able to move to Canada. In the end, he was not. What made you not break up with him then?
It seems to me you've already made your decision but his stalling tactics worked on you.
posted by bearette at 5:32 AM on August 24, 2022 [13 favorites]
It seems to me you've already made your decision but his stalling tactics worked on you.
posted by bearette at 5:32 AM on August 24, 2022 [13 favorites]
I remember your earlier posts and how painful this has all been for you, and I'm really sorry.
But I think your way forward is pretty clear. You had a reasonable dealbreaker, which you decided upon after a great deal of deliberation and difficulty. He tried to make himself do/be what you needed to save the relationship, but ultimately he could not do the thing you needed him to do. The deal, it's broken.
You are now in a situation that Past You decided would be intolerable. I can imagine a scenario where once it actually happened you realized "oh, actually, this isn't that bad, being back in Canada has lightened so much of my ongoing stress/burden that actually I do have the mental/emotional space to take on a long distance relationship, and I'm really enjoying XYZ about having a separate independent life, and I think this could work great for me." But it doesn't sound like that's what's happened for you. You thought you'd be unhappy, now you are unhappy, and you have no reason to think that's ever going to change. Your boyfriend's promises, you've now seen repeatedly, aren't reliable and you can't make decisions based on them.
Please break up with him and stop putting both of you through this unending misery. It's what needs to happen, and he's shown you that he's not strong enough to make the hard decision. You're going to have to be the one who does it.
posted by Stacey at 6:23 AM on August 24, 2022 [8 favorites]
But I think your way forward is pretty clear. You had a reasonable dealbreaker, which you decided upon after a great deal of deliberation and difficulty. He tried to make himself do/be what you needed to save the relationship, but ultimately he could not do the thing you needed him to do. The deal, it's broken.
You are now in a situation that Past You decided would be intolerable. I can imagine a scenario where once it actually happened you realized "oh, actually, this isn't that bad, being back in Canada has lightened so much of my ongoing stress/burden that actually I do have the mental/emotional space to take on a long distance relationship, and I'm really enjoying XYZ about having a separate independent life, and I think this could work great for me." But it doesn't sound like that's what's happened for you. You thought you'd be unhappy, now you are unhappy, and you have no reason to think that's ever going to change. Your boyfriend's promises, you've now seen repeatedly, aren't reliable and you can't make decisions based on them.
Please break up with him and stop putting both of you through this unending misery. It's what needs to happen, and he's shown you that he's not strong enough to make the hard decision. You're going to have to be the one who does it.
posted by Stacey at 6:23 AM on August 24, 2022 [8 favorites]
I want to be able to love and trust my partner fully
This is the crux, it seems. This is a deep value of yours. And you don't trust him, not right now.
Trust is a funny thing. It's idiosyncratic (so it's no surprise that I suspect the most common response you'll get is to DTMFA). It comes and goes. Sometimes--maybe always--relationships have unequal levels of trust between partners as a permanent condition. We tell ourselves what we need to tell ourselves to live with the reality. Maybe there are compensating traits in the other person, or this imbalance is an apology for an imbalance in which the other person is maybe stronger than you. In my case, I told myself that I was in a learning experience--I needed to view the imbalance in trust as an opportunity to be an adult and get past what felt like a hangup of mine.
THat's what I did, for a decade. In the end, though, that trust imbalance did us in. It did me in, rather, because I trusted inappropriately. I trusted to the detriment of my own values, and eventually I paid a hefty price for it. I trusted, despite my instincts, and ten years later I found out just how much my trust had been taken advantage of.
Hindisght is a very different vantage point than the current moment. I don't judge my past self for taking on what felt like a responsible, respectable journey into living with trust ambiguity. But trust has never stopped being a value of mine, a very resonant personal value, and I know that now beyond a shadow of a doubt. I should have acted on my doubts and ended the relationship before our entanglements grew so great with kids, shared property, intertwined families. But I didn't and I don't regret it. Not only do I not regret it, it's now an essential part of me. I suffered, yes, I went through difficult times because of it, yes, but I lived in a series of moments in which I felt like I wanted to give that relationship every reasonable chance I could. And that included chances for groeth and redemption.
So I say stick with your therapy. Stick with your doubts. See what the future holds. What strategies you two can come up with to rebuild trust. Put more labor onto him than onto yourself. And build up your psychological resiliency skill set in the meantime. Focus on your personal growth in this time of change and uncertainty, while making room for this ambiguous relationship to unfold and adapt so you can decide if you're in it or out of it. Explore your values--therapy is so, so great for this. Get a workbook like this one and really commit to working through it.
And go easy on yourself. This is hard stuff, but it's valuable stuff. Be well.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 9:20 AM on August 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
This is the crux, it seems. This is a deep value of yours. And you don't trust him, not right now.
Trust is a funny thing. It's idiosyncratic (so it's no surprise that I suspect the most common response you'll get is to DTMFA). It comes and goes. Sometimes--maybe always--relationships have unequal levels of trust between partners as a permanent condition. We tell ourselves what we need to tell ourselves to live with the reality. Maybe there are compensating traits in the other person, or this imbalance is an apology for an imbalance in which the other person is maybe stronger than you. In my case, I told myself that I was in a learning experience--I needed to view the imbalance in trust as an opportunity to be an adult and get past what felt like a hangup of mine.
THat's what I did, for a decade. In the end, though, that trust imbalance did us in. It did me in, rather, because I trusted inappropriately. I trusted to the detriment of my own values, and eventually I paid a hefty price for it. I trusted, despite my instincts, and ten years later I found out just how much my trust had been taken advantage of.
Hindisght is a very different vantage point than the current moment. I don't judge my past self for taking on what felt like a responsible, respectable journey into living with trust ambiguity. But trust has never stopped being a value of mine, a very resonant personal value, and I know that now beyond a shadow of a doubt. I should have acted on my doubts and ended the relationship before our entanglements grew so great with kids, shared property, intertwined families. But I didn't and I don't regret it. Not only do I not regret it, it's now an essential part of me. I suffered, yes, I went through difficult times because of it, yes, but I lived in a series of moments in which I felt like I wanted to give that relationship every reasonable chance I could. And that included chances for groeth and redemption.
So I say stick with your therapy. Stick with your doubts. See what the future holds. What strategies you two can come up with to rebuild trust. Put more labor onto him than onto yourself. And build up your psychological resiliency skill set in the meantime. Focus on your personal growth in this time of change and uncertainty, while making room for this ambiguous relationship to unfold and adapt so you can decide if you're in it or out of it. Explore your values--therapy is so, so great for this. Get a workbook like this one and really commit to working through it.
And go easy on yourself. This is hard stuff, but it's valuable stuff. Be well.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 9:20 AM on August 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
“…he completely shut down for a week and I had to load the damn website for his chosen US grad program on my own computer and make him click "Accept" to end our shared misery.”
That’s called being an enabler, and I don’t think you want to sign up for a life (or even the next couple of years) with someone who will need you to manage the challenges of their life.
Years ago, I had a lovely but semi-useless boyfriend who, after we graduated from grad school, couldn’t commit to a location. I wasn’t even saying come live with me in a specific place. I would have gone anywhere with him, but he just couldn’t commit to that. And he wasn’t self-aware enough to acknowledge it, but it was clear in his actions of moving from place to place with temporary and ever-changing work situations.
So, I moved back to my home state and, over time, got a job, a place to live, etc... It was one of the smarter things I’ve done in my life.
We really loved each other! He really “got” me. But, if I had stayed with him, I would have had to take on all the deciding, planning, and implementing for both of us. He would have continued with his passive resistance. I would have loved to have his kids, but even then, I knew he could never be a reliable partner who would do his share. I really dodged a bullet. Life with him would have been a lot of disappointment and sadness.
From what I know, he continued his job hopping (and even career hopping at points) and eventually married someone who could support him in this. He seems content. And to be clear, I wasn't wanting him to rake in a lot of money or build a fabulous resume. I wanted him to want to be with me and to work to make that happen. He never did.
So, yeah, you should break up with him…..
As someone said upthread, after two years you can reunite if you both want to. But your relationship is not worthy of the “we will make it work long distance” status. At the very least, you should affirm your right, if you want, to date other people during this separation time. My guess is you will easily move on when you are far away.
Good luck.
posted by rhonzo at 10:33 AM on August 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
That’s called being an enabler, and I don’t think you want to sign up for a life (or even the next couple of years) with someone who will need you to manage the challenges of their life.
Years ago, I had a lovely but semi-useless boyfriend who, after we graduated from grad school, couldn’t commit to a location. I wasn’t even saying come live with me in a specific place. I would have gone anywhere with him, but he just couldn’t commit to that. And he wasn’t self-aware enough to acknowledge it, but it was clear in his actions of moving from place to place with temporary and ever-changing work situations.
So, I moved back to my home state and, over time, got a job, a place to live, etc... It was one of the smarter things I’ve done in my life.
We really loved each other! He really “got” me. But, if I had stayed with him, I would have had to take on all the deciding, planning, and implementing for both of us. He would have continued with his passive resistance. I would have loved to have his kids, but even then, I knew he could never be a reliable partner who would do his share. I really dodged a bullet. Life with him would have been a lot of disappointment and sadness.
From what I know, he continued his job hopping (and even career hopping at points) and eventually married someone who could support him in this. He seems content. And to be clear, I wasn't wanting him to rake in a lot of money or build a fabulous resume. I wanted him to want to be with me and to work to make that happen. He never did.
So, yeah, you should break up with him…..
As someone said upthread, after two years you can reunite if you both want to. But your relationship is not worthy of the “we will make it work long distance” status. At the very least, you should affirm your right, if you want, to date other people during this separation time. My guess is you will easily move on when you are far away.
Good luck.
posted by rhonzo at 10:33 AM on August 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks everyone. What I'm hearing a lot of people say is "this relationship is not meeting your needs and is making you unhappy, so you should leave."
But in the day-to-day, I'm.. actually pretty okay? I'm mostly wrapped up in work and trying to find a permanent place to live (first-time homebuying aaaaah) and trying to reconnect with old friends. Sure, there are times where I am sad about what "could have been", but there is also part of me that's relieved I can just do my own thing as I move into this new period of my life.
We still call and text every day and he recently came to visit for a weekend on my birthday, but I've made it clear that the onus is on him to figure out a way for us to be together again, and I've stopped assuming he's automatically going to be part of my life going forward (like, if I go look at a condo I might idly think about whether it has a place for him to put all his books, but I'm not going to pass up my dream home if it doesn't).
Is this sort of relationship de-escalation a reasonable middle ground, or am I just breaking up with him in slow motion? I've never done the LDR thing before so I don't have a model of what a healthy one should look like. I apologize if my repeated questions about this relationship sound really obvious - I guess it never feels that way from the inside.
posted by sock here, sock there at 11:20 AM on August 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
But in the day-to-day, I'm.. actually pretty okay? I'm mostly wrapped up in work and trying to find a permanent place to live (first-time homebuying aaaaah) and trying to reconnect with old friends. Sure, there are times where I am sad about what "could have been", but there is also part of me that's relieved I can just do my own thing as I move into this new period of my life.
We still call and text every day and he recently came to visit for a weekend on my birthday, but I've made it clear that the onus is on him to figure out a way for us to be together again, and I've stopped assuming he's automatically going to be part of my life going forward (like, if I go look at a condo I might idly think about whether it has a place for him to put all his books, but I'm not going to pass up my dream home if it doesn't).
Is this sort of relationship de-escalation a reasonable middle ground, or am I just breaking up with him in slow motion? I've never done the LDR thing before so I don't have a model of what a healthy one should look like. I apologize if my repeated questions about this relationship sound really obvious - I guess it never feels that way from the inside.
posted by sock here, sock there at 11:20 AM on August 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
You also don't have to break up with your boyfriend if you don't want to. But what you're describing is a life that's happy day-to-day because of what you're doing (working, house hunting, reconnecting with friends, settling into the life you want), and it just so happens that your relationship doesn't interfere with that happiness. If he were insisting you move back to where he is, or explicitly refusing to ever move to be with you, you'd probably feel more urgency to break up. But you're in this limbo where the relationship isn't currently causing you unhappiness, so it's hard to feel motivated to do something that feels drastic, like breaking up. I'd encourage you to think about the trajectory this relationship has you on. There will be a next challenge, or big decision, or dream that you want to take on in your life. Do you want to face it with your boyfriend? Are you ok with the likelihood he'll agree to things he doesn't actually want? Are you ok with putting more plans on hold while he figures out what he's actually willing to do? Do you look forward to that life?
posted by theotherdurassister at 11:45 AM on August 24, 2022
posted by theotherdurassister at 11:45 AM on August 24, 2022
> I've stopped assuming he's automatically going to be part of my life going forward (like, if I go look at a condo I might idly think about whether it has a place for him to put all his books, but I'm not going to pass up my dream home if it doesn't)
Just one person's opinion here: That sounds exactly like a breakup in slow motion to me.
The issue I see here is that in order for a breakup to happen, one person has to be willing to rip the bandaid off, so to speak. If you end up in a situation where both people are sort of unhappy but neither one is willing to be the one to break up, you can have a relationship that limps along for years with both people becoming increasingly miserable. The other posters in this thread have given examples of those types of relationships.
My point is that you don't have to stay in a "meh" relationship where it's already obvious the two of you have pretty different life goals. I promise you there is someone out there for you who shares a vision for the future with you, someone who you can be "hell yes!" with instead of just "okay." But in order to find that person you need to get out of your current relationship.
posted by mekily at 11:46 AM on August 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
Just one person's opinion here: That sounds exactly like a breakup in slow motion to me.
The issue I see here is that in order for a breakup to happen, one person has to be willing to rip the bandaid off, so to speak. If you end up in a situation where both people are sort of unhappy but neither one is willing to be the one to break up, you can have a relationship that limps along for years with both people becoming increasingly miserable. The other posters in this thread have given examples of those types of relationships.
My point is that you don't have to stay in a "meh" relationship where it's already obvious the two of you have pretty different life goals. I promise you there is someone out there for you who shares a vision for the future with you, someone who you can be "hell yes!" with instead of just "okay." But in order to find that person you need to get out of your current relationship.
posted by mekily at 11:46 AM on August 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
Is this sort of relationship de-escalation a reasonable middle ground, or am I just breaking up with him in slow motion?
Why not both?
I've made it clear that the onus is on him to figure out a way for us to be together again, and I've stopped assuming he's automatically going to be part of my life going forward
Great! It is only fair to give him some time to figure out a way for y'all to be together again. In the meantime, you are going about your business. At some point you will look up and realize time has passed, your boyfriend has not stepped up, and you are ready to break up for good.
Or your boyfriend will come through, although that seems unlikely. Or you will decide you want to date others, and call the whole thing off. You have breathing room now to work on your future. Your boyfriend will do some heavy lifting or he won't. It is out of your hands until and unless you decide to call it quits. I hope you have lots of fun in your new location.
posted by Bella Donna at 11:56 AM on August 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
Why not both?
I've made it clear that the onus is on him to figure out a way for us to be together again, and I've stopped assuming he's automatically going to be part of my life going forward
Great! It is only fair to give him some time to figure out a way for y'all to be together again. In the meantime, you are going about your business. At some point you will look up and realize time has passed, your boyfriend has not stepped up, and you are ready to break up for good.
Or your boyfriend will come through, although that seems unlikely. Or you will decide you want to date others, and call the whole thing off. You have breathing room now to work on your future. Your boyfriend will do some heavy lifting or he won't. It is out of your hands until and unless you decide to call it quits. I hope you have lots of fun in your new location.
posted by Bella Donna at 11:56 AM on August 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'm kind of having flashbacks to my 20s right now, and trying to make a relationship work when it was kind and loving, but my partner was very invested in our relationship persisting and I was not invested to a similar degree. I didn't want to break up because it was basically a good relationship and I hated to hurt him. It took a long time to understand that we were both holding ourselves and each other back, with essentially kind intentions. We were good to each other, but not able to grow together.
We tried at one point to make long-distance work, but thing about long-term long-distance is - it takes so much damn effort. Do you really want to be putting that effort in when you could be investing it in a dozen other ways closer to home? Even if another partner isn't appealing, what else could you be doing with the daily energy you're spending on calls and texts, not to mention the emotional effort you're putting in to trying to find a way to believe things can work out?
posted by EvaDestruction at 8:37 PM on August 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
We tried at one point to make long-distance work, but thing about long-term long-distance is - it takes so much damn effort. Do you really want to be putting that effort in when you could be investing it in a dozen other ways closer to home? Even if another partner isn't appealing, what else could you be doing with the daily energy you're spending on calls and texts, not to mention the emotional effort you're putting in to trying to find a way to believe things can work out?
posted by EvaDestruction at 8:37 PM on August 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
He could be with you. He chose not to make the effort. You deserve and can find someone who chooses you.
posted by flimflam at 9:38 PM on August 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by flimflam at 9:38 PM on August 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
Even if you put aside the trust issue (which is not a small issue) for a second, you have the following situation:
Both you and your boyfriend have these priorities, in order of importance:
Priority #1: living in a certain country (Canada for you, the US for him)
Priority #2: your relationship
It is reasonable for you both to decide that living in your respective home countries is more important than being with each other. But it makes you incompatible. You have incompatible life goals.
Limping along in this relationship now doesn't feel so bad because you're not yet at the next decision point. That decision point will come two years from now, when it is time for your boyfriend to move to Canada. All signs (in this post and in your previous posts) point to him refusing to move to Canada two years from now. And it doesn't sound like you will be wiling to move back to the US two years from now either.
So, unless you see yourself potentially happy in a LDR forever, you are both just kicking the can down the road.
posted by sunflower16 at 1:31 AM on August 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
Both you and your boyfriend have these priorities, in order of importance:
Priority #1: living in a certain country (Canada for you, the US for him)
Priority #2: your relationship
It is reasonable for you both to decide that living in your respective home countries is more important than being with each other. But it makes you incompatible. You have incompatible life goals.
Limping along in this relationship now doesn't feel so bad because you're not yet at the next decision point. That decision point will come two years from now, when it is time for your boyfriend to move to Canada. All signs (in this post and in your previous posts) point to him refusing to move to Canada two years from now. And it doesn't sound like you will be wiling to move back to the US two years from now either.
So, unless you see yourself potentially happy in a LDR forever, you are both just kicking the can down the road.
posted by sunflower16 at 1:31 AM on August 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
You don't trust him. So why are you still with him?
Your de-escalated new normal might have been fine in other circumstances. But in your specific circumstances it looks a lot like avoidance on your part and stalling/manipulation on his part.
You don't trust him! This is a big deal, and you seem to know it.
Best case scenario you're doing a slow fade on him, which is one way to end a romantic relationship I guess. Worst case scenario, your slow fade is torturously reversed over and over when he realizes what's happening and either manipulates you into being more involved or makes a few grand gestures to keep you sputtering on for a few more months, yanked into his orbit each time, feeling the weary disappointment of being let down by him again and again.
posted by MiraK at 4:25 AM on August 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
Your de-escalated new normal might have been fine in other circumstances. But in your specific circumstances it looks a lot like avoidance on your part and stalling/manipulation on his part.
You don't trust him! This is a big deal, and you seem to know it.
Best case scenario you're doing a slow fade on him, which is one way to end a romantic relationship I guess. Worst case scenario, your slow fade is torturously reversed over and over when he realizes what's happening and either manipulates you into being more involved or makes a few grand gestures to keep you sputtering on for a few more months, yanked into his orbit each time, feeling the weary disappointment of being let down by him again and again.
posted by MiraK at 4:25 AM on August 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
Is this sort of relationship de-escalation a reasonable middle ground, or am I just breaking up with him in slow motion?
I think what I and others are suggesting is that you are very unlikely to build towards each other from this starting point.
If at some point you want to have a relationship with someone you see in person a few times a week, or you want to live together, or you want to have children, then it will be with someone else and you are currently in a breakup in slow motion.
If you think you could potentially live like this forever without dismay, then it's a reasonable middle ground. I have known people actively enjoy this kind of relationship. They have really fulfilling lives in city A and a LDR with a partner in city B. In each case they were older people in post-divorce or post-bereavement situation where they actively didn't want eg to share their home with another adult. It wouldn't work for me now.
posted by plonkee at 6:54 AM on August 25, 2022
I think what I and others are suggesting is that you are very unlikely to build towards each other from this starting point.
If at some point you want to have a relationship with someone you see in person a few times a week, or you want to live together, or you want to have children, then it will be with someone else and you are currently in a breakup in slow motion.
If you think you could potentially live like this forever without dismay, then it's a reasonable middle ground. I have known people actively enjoy this kind of relationship. They have really fulfilling lives in city A and a LDR with a partner in city B. In each case they were older people in post-divorce or post-bereavement situation where they actively didn't want eg to share their home with another adult. It wouldn't work for me now.
posted by plonkee at 6:54 AM on August 25, 2022
When it came time to actually make the decision, he completely shut down for a week and I had to load the damn website for his chosen US grad program on my own computer and make him click "Accept" to end our shared misery.
Welcome to the rest of your life if you stay with this man. He has shown you who he is. Believe him the first time.
If the dynamic you have described, wherein you have to literally force him to make decisions that affect both of your lives while he promises you the world and fails to deliver, is acceptable to you, then you should stay with him. If you want a partner instead of a project, you should respectfully but definitively end the relationship. He is not your child. You should not have to supervise him to ensure that he is keeping up with his chores.
I understand that he says that he only "makes promises he can't keep" because he's afraid of upsetting you. He may actually believe that. However, when he makes a promise that he has no idea if he'll be able to keep, he is intentionally telling you something that is not true: he's lying to you. Then, when he breaks his "promise", which is what often happens when people promise things without considering the context of what they're actually saying, he turns it around, explaining that he didn't do it to hurt you, he didn't know that he wouldn't be able to keep his word, but he just loves you sooooo much that he really, really wanted to, honest! He lies to you, and then he tells you that well ACKSHYUALLY, it's because he's afraid that if he told the truth, you'd break up with him. This makes being outright lied to somehow your fault.
Also, 2+ years of long-distance with no concrete timeline, much less a definitive end date, with a person who habitually misrepresented the truth to me and has demonstrated on multiple occasions that he's unwilling to bear the burden of adult decisions would not work for me.
Partners approach life as a team. They care about each other enough to tell hard truths when required, even if it is uncomfortable. They seek input from one another about their decisions, but when they have considered the available options, they make a choice, because people who are a team don't let their team members twist in the wind for months and months waiting for resolution. They care enough to consider that sometimes, making a decision and ending the uncertainty of not knowing what is going to happen is kinder than telling the other partner what they want to hear. They don't intentionally tell mistruths, and if they cannot keep a promise for some reason, they don't say that they only did so because of how much they value the relationship.
This ain't it.
posted by easy, lucky, free at 11:12 AM on August 25, 2022 [4 favorites]
Welcome to the rest of your life if you stay with this man. He has shown you who he is. Believe him the first time.
If the dynamic you have described, wherein you have to literally force him to make decisions that affect both of your lives while he promises you the world and fails to deliver, is acceptable to you, then you should stay with him. If you want a partner instead of a project, you should respectfully but definitively end the relationship. He is not your child. You should not have to supervise him to ensure that he is keeping up with his chores.
I understand that he says that he only "makes promises he can't keep" because he's afraid of upsetting you. He may actually believe that. However, when he makes a promise that he has no idea if he'll be able to keep, he is intentionally telling you something that is not true: he's lying to you. Then, when he breaks his "promise", which is what often happens when people promise things without considering the context of what they're actually saying, he turns it around, explaining that he didn't do it to hurt you, he didn't know that he wouldn't be able to keep his word, but he just loves you sooooo much that he really, really wanted to, honest! He lies to you, and then he tells you that well ACKSHYUALLY, it's because he's afraid that if he told the truth, you'd break up with him. This makes being outright lied to somehow your fault.
Also, 2+ years of long-distance with no concrete timeline, much less a definitive end date, with a person who habitually misrepresented the truth to me and has demonstrated on multiple occasions that he's unwilling to bear the burden of adult decisions would not work for me.
Partners approach life as a team. They care about each other enough to tell hard truths when required, even if it is uncomfortable. They seek input from one another about their decisions, but when they have considered the available options, they make a choice, because people who are a team don't let their team members twist in the wind for months and months waiting for resolution. They care enough to consider that sometimes, making a decision and ending the uncertainty of not knowing what is going to happen is kinder than telling the other partner what they want to hear. They don't intentionally tell mistruths, and if they cannot keep a promise for some reason, they don't say that they only did so because of how much they value the relationship.
This ain't it.
posted by easy, lucky, free at 11:12 AM on August 25, 2022 [4 favorites]
Dear OP, the long and short of it is, if he didn't want to move to be with you now, what makes you think he's going to change his mind in two years when he's graduated? As you noted, it'll likely be harder to get a job where you are when he has contacts etc. where his school is.
What exactly do you want? With this relationship, and your life in general (easy question, I know lol). Do you want to have a life with him where you can live your daily lives together in the same place, have a shared vision for the future, make decisions together, or do you want to keep him in your life, where you do your thing where you are and he does his thing where he is? i.e. a forever LDR.
I think you are being too understanding of him to your detriment. You understood that he didn't want to move with you. You understand that he might want to eventually get a job where he is. Again, if you want to have a life and future with him in the same place, you kinda have to not be ok with this, and realize that you're not going to get what you want with him, and break it off.
My feeling is that you don't want to end it now because you don't want to be "that" person who shuts things down when things don't go her way. But that's not what this is. You're not a bad person for wanting what you want, and for ending a relationship that doesn't meet what you want despite all the good things. Nor are you inflexible for wanting to live in your hometown and not wanting to move back to his city.
am I just breaking up with him in slow motion?
The fact that you've asked this means you already know that you are. E.g. You're going ahead with buying a place without factoring him into the decision. That's not the action of someone who is planning a life with someone else (if that's what you want, and it seems like you do). Again, you are absolutely not wrong for buying your own place, and you should do that if you want. But if actions speak louder than words...
If you don't want to break up with him now, that's ok too. What you could do is, re: this: "I've stopped assuming he's automatically going to be part of my life going forward" - figure out how long you're going to be ok with this for. Maybe you want to do this for another year or more and see where things are. If he is actually serious that he will move to you after graduation, then 6 months to one year before his program ends, he should actively be looking for jobs in your area, making contacts, etc. And you could tell him these are your expectations. "I want to live together in the same place with you forever. If I don't see you doing actions to prepare yourself to move here by x time, I'm ending it." It is kind of ultimatum-ish, but I think totally reasonable. Or you don't tell him that, and if he's not doing that in your timeframe, then you have your answer. Again, actions speak louder than words. But I think you know that he's not going to do that. Because again, if he wanted to move with you he would have done so now. What's going to change in two years so that he can move then?
A relationship doesn't have to be terrible to warrant a break up. You can love each other a lot, talk easily, make each other laugh, have great sex. You two also don't want the same things. It sucks, it's unfortunate, but it happens. You gotta figure out what you're ok with and proceed from there.
Have a listen to this podcast. It's about breaking up with someone you love but you also know that you'd be hindering each other's growth if you stay together. https://open.spotify.com/episode/2RbiIBqFa1ODAKKSZV6Mqc?si=wk4FDBU8QuyUHzN-3Fh3wQ&utm_source=copy-link
posted by foxjacket at 5:54 AM on August 26, 2022
What exactly do you want? With this relationship, and your life in general (easy question, I know lol). Do you want to have a life with him where you can live your daily lives together in the same place, have a shared vision for the future, make decisions together, or do you want to keep him in your life, where you do your thing where you are and he does his thing where he is? i.e. a forever LDR.
I think you are being too understanding of him to your detriment. You understood that he didn't want to move with you. You understand that he might want to eventually get a job where he is. Again, if you want to have a life and future with him in the same place, you kinda have to not be ok with this, and realize that you're not going to get what you want with him, and break it off.
My feeling is that you don't want to end it now because you don't want to be "that" person who shuts things down when things don't go her way. But that's not what this is. You're not a bad person for wanting what you want, and for ending a relationship that doesn't meet what you want despite all the good things. Nor are you inflexible for wanting to live in your hometown and not wanting to move back to his city.
am I just breaking up with him in slow motion?
The fact that you've asked this means you already know that you are. E.g. You're going ahead with buying a place without factoring him into the decision. That's not the action of someone who is planning a life with someone else (if that's what you want, and it seems like you do). Again, you are absolutely not wrong for buying your own place, and you should do that if you want. But if actions speak louder than words...
If you don't want to break up with him now, that's ok too. What you could do is, re: this: "I've stopped assuming he's automatically going to be part of my life going forward" - figure out how long you're going to be ok with this for. Maybe you want to do this for another year or more and see where things are. If he is actually serious that he will move to you after graduation, then 6 months to one year before his program ends, he should actively be looking for jobs in your area, making contacts, etc. And you could tell him these are your expectations. "I want to live together in the same place with you forever. If I don't see you doing actions to prepare yourself to move here by x time, I'm ending it." It is kind of ultimatum-ish, but I think totally reasonable. Or you don't tell him that, and if he's not doing that in your timeframe, then you have your answer. Again, actions speak louder than words. But I think you know that he's not going to do that. Because again, if he wanted to move with you he would have done so now. What's going to change in two years so that he can move then?
A relationship doesn't have to be terrible to warrant a break up. You can love each other a lot, talk easily, make each other laugh, have great sex. You two also don't want the same things. It sucks, it's unfortunate, but it happens. You gotta figure out what you're ok with and proceed from there.
Have a listen to this podcast. It's about breaking up with someone you love but you also know that you'd be hindering each other's growth if you stay together. https://open.spotify.com/episode/2RbiIBqFa1ODAKKSZV6Mqc?si=wk4FDBU8QuyUHzN-3Fh3wQ&utm_source=copy-link
posted by foxjacket at 5:54 AM on August 26, 2022
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That is the flippant answer. This internet stranger remembers your posting history and I don't know who in your life you need to hear from to make the decision, but the best decision is break up and move on.
posted by paradeofblimps at 7:55 PM on August 23, 2022 [26 favorites]