Tips on scorched earth options to get big corporation to help?
July 6, 2022 1:35 PM Subscribe
We bought a car on Carvana and now have a undriveable/un-titled car. I want to go HAM on them to get them to do fix this? what is the easiest up to-non-lawyer-way to get this done? I've tried twitter, facebook, phone call and submitted a BBB and state attorney general complaint. I've heard of "strongly worded letter." How does that work? What else can I do outside of paying a lawyer?
Lawyer is next, obviously.
Lawyer is next, obviously.
Contact the Attorney General and Secretary of State in your state, as well as your member of Congress and/or state rep/senator, whoever you think is most likely to be helpful (or try them all).
posted by lunasol at 2:29 PM on July 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by lunasol at 2:29 PM on July 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
Executive Email Carpet Bomb. Be sure to include the facts, what you've done so far to get a resolution, and what you want the recipient to do. The attitude to strike through your email is that this should not be happening and you're sure that they are now equally outraged at the situation and will do what's needed to make it right.
posted by DrGail at 2:33 PM on July 6, 2022 [12 favorites]
posted by DrGail at 2:33 PM on July 6, 2022 [12 favorites]
Also, does your local media have a consumer affairs reporter? If your story is sympathetic, they might cover it and almost all of those stories end with the company caving in as 'a goodwill gesture'.
posted by jacquilynne at 2:46 PM on July 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 2:46 PM on July 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
as well as your member of Congress and/or state rep/senator
If what you really want is to get things fixed (as opposed to blowing up Carvana), this is my suggestion. My wife worked at her local Congressperson's office and helping with stuff like this was bread and butter "constituent services" that they often dealt with. A call to the state DMV from an elected official might grease things.
Good luck! Carvana seems uniquely inept at titling - they had their license to sell cars suspended for a while in Illinois after enough people complained about the same issue you are having.
posted by AgentRocket at 3:10 PM on July 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
If what you really want is to get things fixed (as opposed to blowing up Carvana), this is my suggestion. My wife worked at her local Congressperson's office and helping with stuff like this was bread and butter "constituent services" that they often dealt with. A call to the state DMV from an elected official might grease things.
Good luck! Carvana seems uniquely inept at titling - they had their license to sell cars suspended for a while in Illinois after enough people complained about the same issue you are having.
posted by AgentRocket at 3:10 PM on July 6, 2022 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I live in DC, so I have no elected representation (technically do), but in a wrinkle I posted on fb and a friend txted me and said “I can get you in contact with their lobbyist” which is close enough?
posted by sandmanwv at 3:21 PM on July 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by sandmanwv at 3:21 PM on July 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
(For better or worse, I don't think Carvana is uniquely inept--their competitor Vroom has seen some of the same kinds of issues.)
posted by box at 3:30 PM on July 6, 2022
posted by box at 3:30 PM on July 6, 2022
I'm sure you've seen this, but it seems to be a recurring issue with Caravana: caravana title issue google search (note the numerous similar posts on Reddit, too).
posted by Ahmad Khani at 3:38 PM on July 6, 2022
posted by Ahmad Khani at 3:38 PM on July 6, 2022
I live in DC and bought a car with Carvana with thankfully minimal title hassle a few years ago.
Eleanor Holmes Norton is your (non-voting) elected representative to Congress and her office absolutely does constituent service like this the same as every other member of Congress. Attorney General Racine's consumer protection office might also be helpful or potentially your Council member's office. I wouldn't bother talking to their lobbyist, they're not going to be much help. Good luck and I hope it gets sorted out for you soon!
posted by fancypants at 3:39 PM on July 6, 2022 [10 favorites]
Eleanor Holmes Norton is your (non-voting) elected representative to Congress and her office absolutely does constituent service like this the same as every other member of Congress. Attorney General Racine's consumer protection office might also be helpful or potentially your Council member's office. I wouldn't bother talking to their lobbyist, they're not going to be much help. Good luck and I hope it gets sorted out for you soon!
posted by fancypants at 3:39 PM on July 6, 2022 [10 favorites]
Elliott Advocacy might be interested. Christopher Elliott writes a column in the Washington Post. I did not find anything on Carvana in their website but it might be worth contacting them.
posted by soelo at 5:41 PM on July 6, 2022
posted by soelo at 5:41 PM on July 6, 2022
How did you pay for it? If you used a credit card (even for a deposit) you can possibly use the threat of a chargeback and let the CC bank do some of the lifting for you.
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 5:56 AM on July 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 5:56 AM on July 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
That sounds really frustrating. $3,000 is probably in the range for small claims court - so you can attempt to sue yourself. $3,000 is not going to be worth hiring a civil attorney, except maybe for a brief meeting to help with wording. The good news is the process of setting up a small claims matter often gets the response without the hassle of actually going to court. I'm not a big social media user - but there's nothing that says a corporation has to reply to anyone on twitter. They do have laws making them reply to certain communications from consumers and courts.
Most US states have consumer protection laws that spell out the process. In my state you start with a 30 day demand letter, sent via certified or return receipt mail, so there is proof that the other party received the message. That starts the clock. You do have to find a legal address for the company in your state and wait the 30 days. Some states also have penalties - where an unfair or deceptive business has to pay double or triple damages if they misuse funds "knowingly and willingly". It's likely that this was just a screw up and there was not bad intent or bad faith, CARVANA is probably just bad at this- but it can be helpful to include the language that will perk up the ears of whatever lawyer or manager is on the receiving end. Writing a demand letter is kind of like asking the Genie for a wish - you have to be clear that it is actually something that can be done, and that you want to be done. CARVANA would love to reject your demand letter because of an open-ended ask that is not clear - causing the process to start over again and resetting that 30 day clock to zero.
An example letter based on state of MA consumer law:
Dear Carvana of MA,
This is a 30 day demand letter asking you to fulfill your end of a contract. on X date I paid $3,0000 (yadda yadda fill in all details of transaction here).
CARVANA's practices have been unfair and deceptive and therefore are prohibited by MA law and carry financial penalties. CARVANA has been deceptive - by representing ability to perform a service within a given time, and then opting not to perform within that time, CARVANA has been deceptive about their ability to perform and has not allowed me to asses the true value of the services offered before spending my money.
CARVANA has been unfair - by making false claims about ability and timeliness to performa service, I chose CARVANA over many other options for purchasing and titling a used vehicle in the state of MA. Had I known the acutual timeline of CARVANA's attempted performance, I would have chosen another business.
To remedy this situation I hereby demand the following:
Immediate refund of $3,000, via a cashiers or bank check made out to me, AND interest of 20% annual rate, comppounded daily, calculated from the date the check was cashed by CARVANA to the date the full refund is reccieved by me, AND such interest payments shall also be made by cashiers or bank check, AND immediate removal of the non-titled vehicle from my property, at CARVANA's expense, AND $x per day paid to me via certified or bank check, to cover expense of storing the vehicle on my property, starting 7 days after delivery of the vehicle, ending on the day the vehicle is removed. Please see attached estimates or advertisements from local businesses offering vehicle storage for comparable rates.
OR
Clear title to the vehicle delivered to me, AND plus $x per day paid to me via certified or bank check, to cover expense of storing the untitled vehicle on my property, starting 7 days after delivery of the vehicle and ending on the date that I receive the title. Please see attached estimates or advertisements from local businesses offering vehicle storage for comparable rates.
If the previous conditions are not met by the end of thirty days, I will persue this matter in civil court, and will use all legal avenues available to me, including requesting monetary damages for unfair and deceptive business practices.
Thanks very much for your attention to this matter,
sandmanvw
Unfortunately, $3,000 is not that much money for a large national corporation. They probably screwed up and have to wait for some other state's DMV to get the paperwork. Perhaps they were scammed by the original seller. They might be making a business decision to ignore this.
If the 30 days goes by you can go to small claims court. Do some research online, and find out the courthouse where you can file. I've found the courthouse clerks very helpful - they cannot offer any legal advice, but their life is made so much easier if the paperwork is filled out correctly so they are incentivized to help. Once you file a matter in small claims court there is a process where the other party (CARVANA) gets official notice and there is a date and time when they, and you, need to appear.
Probably that will be it and CARVANA will reach out to try and negotiate a settlement before the court date. They are under no obligation to meet your demands, but they don't want to have to pay a lawyer to show up at that little district court on that date and time. It's up to you to accept the terms. You can refuse and the court date will stand.
If you don't hear anything, or politely reject their offers for remedy, then show up to court early for the date, have all your paperwork ready including the 30 day letter, photos of the car, etc. If CARVANA is still screwing up, and they don't send anyone, they have failed to appear and the judge/clerk/magistrate running the court will offer a default judgement in your favor and issue a command to CARVANA to pay with a deadline.
If CARVANA does show up (in the form of whatever local lawyer they hired to handle this) the judge/clerk/magistrate will hear the case and decide, either then or a few days later, and then an order for payment will be made.
The timeline on this can wear out into weeks or months - so it is helpful to put a demand that gets automatically higher with time (interest, storage) so there is an incentive for quick action.
posted by sol at 10:17 AM on July 7, 2022
Most US states have consumer protection laws that spell out the process. In my state you start with a 30 day demand letter, sent via certified or return receipt mail, so there is proof that the other party received the message. That starts the clock. You do have to find a legal address for the company in your state and wait the 30 days. Some states also have penalties - where an unfair or deceptive business has to pay double or triple damages if they misuse funds "knowingly and willingly". It's likely that this was just a screw up and there was not bad intent or bad faith, CARVANA is probably just bad at this- but it can be helpful to include the language that will perk up the ears of whatever lawyer or manager is on the receiving end. Writing a demand letter is kind of like asking the Genie for a wish - you have to be clear that it is actually something that can be done, and that you want to be done. CARVANA would love to reject your demand letter because of an open-ended ask that is not clear - causing the process to start over again and resetting that 30 day clock to zero.
An example letter based on state of MA consumer law:
Dear Carvana of MA,
This is a 30 day demand letter asking you to fulfill your end of a contract. on X date I paid $3,0000 (yadda yadda fill in all details of transaction here).
CARVANA's practices have been unfair and deceptive and therefore are prohibited by MA law and carry financial penalties. CARVANA has been deceptive - by representing ability to perform a service within a given time, and then opting not to perform within that time, CARVANA has been deceptive about their ability to perform and has not allowed me to asses the true value of the services offered before spending my money.
CARVANA has been unfair - by making false claims about ability and timeliness to performa service, I chose CARVANA over many other options for purchasing and titling a used vehicle in the state of MA. Had I known the acutual timeline of CARVANA's attempted performance, I would have chosen another business.
To remedy this situation I hereby demand the following:
Immediate refund of $3,000, via a cashiers or bank check made out to me, AND interest of 20% annual rate, comppounded daily, calculated from the date the check was cashed by CARVANA to the date the full refund is reccieved by me, AND such interest payments shall also be made by cashiers or bank check, AND immediate removal of the non-titled vehicle from my property, at CARVANA's expense, AND $x per day paid to me via certified or bank check, to cover expense of storing the vehicle on my property, starting 7 days after delivery of the vehicle, ending on the day the vehicle is removed. Please see attached estimates or advertisements from local businesses offering vehicle storage for comparable rates.
OR
Clear title to the vehicle delivered to me, AND plus $x per day paid to me via certified or bank check, to cover expense of storing the untitled vehicle on my property, starting 7 days after delivery of the vehicle and ending on the date that I receive the title. Please see attached estimates or advertisements from local businesses offering vehicle storage for comparable rates.
If the previous conditions are not met by the end of thirty days, I will persue this matter in civil court, and will use all legal avenues available to me, including requesting monetary damages for unfair and deceptive business practices.
Thanks very much for your attention to this matter,
sandmanvw
Unfortunately, $3,000 is not that much money for a large national corporation. They probably screwed up and have to wait for some other state's DMV to get the paperwork. Perhaps they were scammed by the original seller. They might be making a business decision to ignore this.
If the 30 days goes by you can go to small claims court. Do some research online, and find out the courthouse where you can file. I've found the courthouse clerks very helpful - they cannot offer any legal advice, but their life is made so much easier if the paperwork is filled out correctly so they are incentivized to help. Once you file a matter in small claims court there is a process where the other party (CARVANA) gets official notice and there is a date and time when they, and you, need to appear.
Probably that will be it and CARVANA will reach out to try and negotiate a settlement before the court date. They are under no obligation to meet your demands, but they don't want to have to pay a lawyer to show up at that little district court on that date and time. It's up to you to accept the terms. You can refuse and the court date will stand.
If you don't hear anything, or politely reject their offers for remedy, then show up to court early for the date, have all your paperwork ready including the 30 day letter, photos of the car, etc. If CARVANA is still screwing up, and they don't send anyone, they have failed to appear and the judge/clerk/magistrate running the court will offer a default judgement in your favor and issue a command to CARVANA to pay with a deadline.
If CARVANA does show up (in the form of whatever local lawyer they hired to handle this) the judge/clerk/magistrate will hear the case and decide, either then or a few days later, and then an order for payment will be made.
The timeline on this can wear out into weeks or months - so it is helpful to put a demand that gets automatically higher with time (interest, storage) so there is an incentive for quick action.
posted by sol at 10:17 AM on July 7, 2022
$3,000 is probably in the range for small claims court - so you can attempt to sue yourself. $3,000 is not going to be worth hiring a civil attorney, except maybe for a brief meeting to help with wording.
We do not know how much the OP paid for the vehicle.
posted by Ahmad Khani at 1:19 PM on July 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
We do not know how much the OP paid for the vehicle.
posted by Ahmad Khani at 1:19 PM on July 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
but in a wrinkle I posted on fb and a friend txted me and said “I can get you in contact with their lobbyist” which is close enough?
No. Their lobbyist works for them. Eleanor Holmes Norton works for you, and can make trouble for them. I'd suggest following fancypants' link and contacting her for help.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 8:05 PM on July 7, 2022
No. Their lobbyist works for them. Eleanor Holmes Norton works for you, and can make trouble for them. I'd suggest following fancypants' link and contacting her for help.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 8:05 PM on July 7, 2022
This thread is closed to new comments.
(IANAL) Write your letter; be bland, civil and factual:
On June 1, I purchased a vehicle from Carvana with invoice #GHJ567. The vehicle is a 1965 Ford Mustang. I paid $3,000, with a check from My Credit Union, copy attached. The check has cleared. The vehicle was delivered to me on June 4, 2022, at 4567 MeFi Ave, Mytown, XX, 12121.
To register the vehicle in my state, I need the invoice, plus the title. I have not received the title.
I have contacted Carvana on these dates for assistance getting the title so I can register and use the car.
June 4, 2022. email
June 4, 2022. phone
June 6, 2022. phone
June 8, 2022. email
June 8, 2022. phone
June 13, 2022. email
June 13, 2022. phone
June 20, 2022. email
I have received no response and still do not have the title. I would prefer to resolve this matter promptly and amicably and I ask your help in doing so. Please contact me as soon as possible at
809-555-1234
email: sandmanwv@awwjeezcmon.com
Jay SandMan, 4567 MeFi Ave, Mytown, XX, 12121
Sincerely, Jay Sandman
Good luck. please update this if you can.
Have it delivered by overnight with copies for Ben Huston, Ernie Garcia, Teresa Aragon, and any others. They will all have LinkedIn profiles, maybe twitter, etc.
posted by theora55 at 2:13 PM on July 6, 2022 [10 favorites]