Handling guilt after betraying my own values around COVID
June 8, 2022 3:50 PM Subscribe
I recklessly went to a concert unmasked while having what I thought were allergy symptoms, and then tested positive for COVID a day later. I've been very careful during the pandemic—but I majorly messed up here. How do I move forward with the guilt in a healthy yet accountable way?
For context, I'm triple-vaxxed, young, and do not live with anyone high-risk. I've been really cautious throughout the entire pandemic (no gatherings, getting vaccinated, always masking when out or with other people, testing when I feel sick, etc). I've been worried about accidentally spreading COVID to others, and I really value the ideas of community care, protecting the vulnerable by doing common-sense COVID measures, etc.
Then I did something very reckless and self-centered. I was having what I assumed were allergy symptoms, but I took an antigen test just in case. It was negative, which was a relief, so I bought some allergy meds and they seemed to help. 5 days later, I went to a concert I've been looking forward to—about 80-100 peope, indoors venue, only around 1% of people masked. I did not test beforehand (still assuming my sore throat and watery eyes were allergies) and did not wear a mask. Why? I guess I wanted to keep assuming it was allergies, and I wanted to enjoy the concert without the inconvenience of a mask. I should've tested beforehand, and I should've worn a mask. I didn't. I wish I could change that.
I tested positive for COVID a day after the concert. My "allergies" weren't that at all; they were COVID, which should've been obvious if I'd tested regularly. I felt terrible, and emailed the venue (a nightclub) to let them know they might've been exposed (they don't do contact tracing—never asked for our info—and never asked for vaxx or test status).
Point is, I made a selfish choice, and went against pretty much everything I've been living by for the past 2+ years. I feel extraordinarily disappointed in myself, and deeply worried about the people I very well might've gotten sick (or worse) by not masking or testing regularly. It wasn't okay, and it made the pandemic—and people's real lives—worse. I hate that I turned my back on my deeply held values of community care + collective safety for the cheap thrill of a concert.
I don't need pity or reassurance that this was okay. It wasn’t, it was reckless and potentially dangerous to others, and I'm fully aware of that. What I do want is perspectives on what to do with this guilt that I've been feeling for weeks. I know it's warranted to feel it here, so I don't want to handwave it away, but I also don't want to drown in this feeling, which isn't exactly helpful to anyone around me either.
It won't happen again—I'm going to be incredibly diligent with masking + testing from here on out, and no more big events for me. But the guilt and shame is eating through me like acid. I don't want to take care of myself. I don't want to do nice or fun things because what if I forget the guilt and do something reckless again, and hurt others? It feels too risky + morally wrong to stop feeling this way.
I don't know how to move forward in a productive, yet accountable way. I'm aware that focusing on my own guilt is, in a way, selfish too—it’s all about me and my feelings, and not what I did to others around me. So I don't want to stay stuck here either, but I have no idea how to live with this hyper-intense feeling.
Any thoughts and perspectives are appreciated, though I know YANMT. Thanks so much in advance.
(I do have a therapist, and we're going to talk about this. It’s also helpful to have the perspective of peers, too, so thanks again.)
For context, I'm triple-vaxxed, young, and do not live with anyone high-risk. I've been really cautious throughout the entire pandemic (no gatherings, getting vaccinated, always masking when out or with other people, testing when I feel sick, etc). I've been worried about accidentally spreading COVID to others, and I really value the ideas of community care, protecting the vulnerable by doing common-sense COVID measures, etc.
Then I did something very reckless and self-centered. I was having what I assumed were allergy symptoms, but I took an antigen test just in case. It was negative, which was a relief, so I bought some allergy meds and they seemed to help. 5 days later, I went to a concert I've been looking forward to—about 80-100 peope, indoors venue, only around 1% of people masked. I did not test beforehand (still assuming my sore throat and watery eyes were allergies) and did not wear a mask. Why? I guess I wanted to keep assuming it was allergies, and I wanted to enjoy the concert without the inconvenience of a mask. I should've tested beforehand, and I should've worn a mask. I didn't. I wish I could change that.
I tested positive for COVID a day after the concert. My "allergies" weren't that at all; they were COVID, which should've been obvious if I'd tested regularly. I felt terrible, and emailed the venue (a nightclub) to let them know they might've been exposed (they don't do contact tracing—never asked for our info—and never asked for vaxx or test status).
Point is, I made a selfish choice, and went against pretty much everything I've been living by for the past 2+ years. I feel extraordinarily disappointed in myself, and deeply worried about the people I very well might've gotten sick (or worse) by not masking or testing regularly. It wasn't okay, and it made the pandemic—and people's real lives—worse. I hate that I turned my back on my deeply held values of community care + collective safety for the cheap thrill of a concert.
I don't need pity or reassurance that this was okay. It wasn’t, it was reckless and potentially dangerous to others, and I'm fully aware of that. What I do want is perspectives on what to do with this guilt that I've been feeling for weeks. I know it's warranted to feel it here, so I don't want to handwave it away, but I also don't want to drown in this feeling, which isn't exactly helpful to anyone around me either.
It won't happen again—I'm going to be incredibly diligent with masking + testing from here on out, and no more big events for me. But the guilt and shame is eating through me like acid. I don't want to take care of myself. I don't want to do nice or fun things because what if I forget the guilt and do something reckless again, and hurt others? It feels too risky + morally wrong to stop feeling this way.
I don't know how to move forward in a productive, yet accountable way. I'm aware that focusing on my own guilt is, in a way, selfish too—it’s all about me and my feelings, and not what I did to others around me. So I don't want to stay stuck here either, but I have no idea how to live with this hyper-intense feeling.
Any thoughts and perspectives are appreciated, though I know YANMT. Thanks so much in advance.
(I do have a therapist, and we're going to talk about this. It’s also helpful to have the perspective of peers, too, so thanks again.)
I know you don't want us to tell you it's ok, but anyone who was there unmasked with you already consented to being infected. If that wasn't the case then that would be a different story. But every single one of those unmasked people signed on the dotted line that they were ok with getting Covid. And I'll bet none of them are even as conscientious or thoughtful enough to feel bad about it. Yes, it's bizarre and idiotic, but, that's where we're at as a society. The only other thing I'd say is just, do better next time, which you have already committed to. So here's my vote that you can forgive yourself for this and think about how it felt next time you have this choice to make. That is the way to move forward with accountability.
posted by bleep at 4:03 PM on June 8, 2022 [32 favorites]
posted by bleep at 4:03 PM on June 8, 2022 [32 favorites]
This is a lot of emotion for something really, really normal and I urge you to give yourself a break. It’s been 2.5 years since COVID first invaded all our lives and I fear that you doubling down on never being allowed to make a mistake again is not going to end well.
I also don’t think it’s healthy to make other people’s safety your top priority when basically no one is masking, avoiding large gatherings, or social distancing anymore. Other people have agency as well, and they are exercising it in a way which indicates that they are not really that worried about contracting COVID.
posted by rhymedirective at 4:06 PM on June 8, 2022 [53 favorites]
I also don’t think it’s healthy to make other people’s safety your top priority when basically no one is masking, avoiding large gatherings, or social distancing anymore. Other people have agency as well, and they are exercising it in a way which indicates that they are not really that worried about contracting COVID.
posted by rhymedirective at 4:06 PM on June 8, 2022 [53 favorites]
I’m my opinion we are really conditioned to minimize our own symptoms, so keep in mind that a year or two of Covid isn’t going to change that tendency.
Use this as a teaching moment… “now I know, I can feel this way and have COVID.”
Write it down in a calendar—- so you don’t forget the progression of symptoms or lack of symptoms.
Next time you have allergy symptoms get tested.
For now, get healthy and take care of yourself.
posted by calgirl at 4:07 PM on June 8, 2022 [6 favorites]
Use this as a teaching moment… “now I know, I can feel this way and have COVID.”
Write it down in a calendar—- so you don’t forget the progression of symptoms or lack of symptoms.
Next time you have allergy symptoms get tested.
For now, get healthy and take care of yourself.
posted by calgirl at 4:07 PM on June 8, 2022 [6 favorites]
To overcome the guilt, can you do some volunteering? For example, assign yourself "20 hours of community service".
We all make mistakes. If you take some concrete action to counteract the damage, you may find it easier to forgive yourself.
posted by vienna at 4:12 PM on June 8, 2022 [10 favorites]
We all make mistakes. If you take some concrete action to counteract the damage, you may find it easier to forgive yourself.
posted by vienna at 4:12 PM on June 8, 2022 [10 favorites]
Note that 'I had covid' and 'I had allergy like symptoms' does not actually equate to 'my allergy like symptoms were caused by covid' - they could, in fact, have been allergies, and if you had nasal symptoms when you tested negative then they probably were, at least in part. You might even have picked it up at the concert rather than took it there (I did, a few weeks back). Nothing about your story is certain, even with hindsight.
But I think what bothers you more is that you'd let your standards slip: you could have tested but you didn't bother, although you knew you were clear five days previously, so you'd probably be in good company making that choice.
Next time, test before you go; but forgetting to test this once does not make you a monster, it makes you a fallible human being, and trying to do better next time makes you a good human being.
posted by How much is that froggie in the window at 4:17 PM on June 8, 2022 [18 favorites]
But I think what bothers you more is that you'd let your standards slip: you could have tested but you didn't bother, although you knew you were clear five days previously, so you'd probably be in good company making that choice.
Next time, test before you go; but forgetting to test this once does not make you a monster, it makes you a fallible human being, and trying to do better next time makes you a good human being.
posted by How much is that froggie in the window at 4:17 PM on June 8, 2022 [18 favorites]
You know how you're a person, in the world, in the third year of this shitshow, just doing your best? Balancing COVID caution against your need to live your life, and making decisions every day about how the priorities line up?
Well, everyone else is doing the same thing. Yes, even the people making different choices than you. Even the people who've been less cautious than you. And even the people being more cautious than you. Doesn't mean they're better or worse, as far as those choices go. All of us have to make the choices as they come up according to our needs, our values, our priorities, everything.
You can forgive yourself, and everyone else, because we're all in the same boat. It means letting go of some of that sense of virtue and righteous anger, which is rough. But there are compensations.
posted by fingersandtoes at 4:18 PM on June 8, 2022 [14 favorites]
Well, everyone else is doing the same thing. Yes, even the people making different choices than you. Even the people who've been less cautious than you. And even the people being more cautious than you. Doesn't mean they're better or worse, as far as those choices go. All of us have to make the choices as they come up according to our needs, our values, our priorities, everything.
You can forgive yourself, and everyone else, because we're all in the same boat. It means letting go of some of that sense of virtue and righteous anger, which is rough. But there are compensations.
posted by fingersandtoes at 4:18 PM on June 8, 2022 [14 favorites]
I don't want to take care of myself. I don't want to do nice or fun things because what if I forget the guilt and do something reckless again, and hurt others? It feels too risky + morally wrong to stop feeling this way.
I have often felt this way, and I think you should specifically tell your therapist this part, because I think there’s a lot you can do to work on it. My own therapist has helped me see how much I do this sort of thing to avoid having to make hard decisions that might make me anxious. Like, I can super relate to the thought that if I hold onto the guilt and shame tightly enough, that’ll protect me from forgetting/slipping up/acting out of control in the future, which in turn would prove that I am in fact a Bad Person Who Hurts Other People.
But in my experience, what that tight grip on the guilt does over time is make my world smaller and restrict my ability to act in ways that are consistent with my values. It doesn’t help me (it makes me miserable and self-destructive) and it doesn’t help other people (because it turns out that I generally tend to do the right thing even when I’m not hyper-fixated on making sure that happens - and I bet that’s true for you too! Even if you fucked up this time and maybe did cause harm, as we all do! - so holding onto the guilt doesn’t, like, suddenly motivate me to be a better person in a way that I wasn’t motivated before).
I think that even if you totally forgave yourself for this and woke up tomorrow thinking “yep, I’m over it, I don’t feel that bad anymore!”, you would not suddenly turn into someone who just constantly recklessly endangers others. You know you acted in a way that isn’t consistent with your values (at least, that’s what it sounds like to me from your description) - you don’t also need the beating-yourself-up-guilt-shame stuff to continue to try and act in ways that are consistent with your values going forward. I promise. :)
My own life feels so much more full now that I am better at allowing myself to move on without all the wallowing and anxiety and guilt, now that I can recognize that moving on isn’t the same thing as “deciding that what I did was totally okay”. I hope that for you too. You sound thoughtful and compassionate and, like all people, deserve compassion yourself, even when you - like all people - make mistakes, even ones that might have caused harm.
posted by chaiyai at 4:21 PM on June 8, 2022 [18 favorites]
I have often felt this way, and I think you should specifically tell your therapist this part, because I think there’s a lot you can do to work on it. My own therapist has helped me see how much I do this sort of thing to avoid having to make hard decisions that might make me anxious. Like, I can super relate to the thought that if I hold onto the guilt and shame tightly enough, that’ll protect me from forgetting/slipping up/acting out of control in the future, which in turn would prove that I am in fact a Bad Person Who Hurts Other People.
But in my experience, what that tight grip on the guilt does over time is make my world smaller and restrict my ability to act in ways that are consistent with my values. It doesn’t help me (it makes me miserable and self-destructive) and it doesn’t help other people (because it turns out that I generally tend to do the right thing even when I’m not hyper-fixated on making sure that happens - and I bet that’s true for you too! Even if you fucked up this time and maybe did cause harm, as we all do! - so holding onto the guilt doesn’t, like, suddenly motivate me to be a better person in a way that I wasn’t motivated before).
I think that even if you totally forgave yourself for this and woke up tomorrow thinking “yep, I’m over it, I don’t feel that bad anymore!”, you would not suddenly turn into someone who just constantly recklessly endangers others. You know you acted in a way that isn’t consistent with your values (at least, that’s what it sounds like to me from your description) - you don’t also need the beating-yourself-up-guilt-shame stuff to continue to try and act in ways that are consistent with your values going forward. I promise. :)
My own life feels so much more full now that I am better at allowing myself to move on without all the wallowing and anxiety and guilt, now that I can recognize that moving on isn’t the same thing as “deciding that what I did was totally okay”. I hope that for you too. You sound thoughtful and compassionate and, like all people, deserve compassion yourself, even when you - like all people - make mistakes, even ones that might have caused harm.
posted by chaiyai at 4:21 PM on June 8, 2022 [18 favorites]
When I did a shitty thing because I had been thoughtless, self-centered and rushed and ended up harming some people, one thing I did was set up a recurring donation to a relevant group. This was with the intent of making a material difference since I had caused material harm. You could pick an immunization or covid-related charity and make a small recurring donation, you could commit to giving X amount to people's COVID gofundmes, etc.
I must say, I think it's good that you have the attitude that just because other people are unmasked dumbasses doesn't mean it's okay for you to blithely infect them. You have the correct understanding that if you see a problem you are responsible for at least not making it worse, even if other people don't see the problem.
posted by Frowner at 4:22 PM on June 8, 2022 [12 favorites]
I must say, I think it's good that you have the attitude that just because other people are unmasked dumbasses doesn't mean it's okay for you to blithely infect them. You have the correct understanding that if you see a problem you are responsible for at least not making it worse, even if other people don't see the problem.
posted by Frowner at 4:22 PM on June 8, 2022 [12 favorites]
I’ve been pretty cautious but have done a few things outside of that (avoided infections as far as I know, which I attribute to luck). The way I’ve made peace with it is to try to figure out what my unmet needs were and then different ways I could be meeting them. So instead of saying “Never again,” maybe look at some outdoor music events or other gatherings or social interactions that are less risky but might give you some more of what you need now.
Part of this is also about understanding that it’s not a virtue not to have gotten Covid. Yes, we make choices, but many people don’t have as much privilege to be able to limit their interactions with others.
Think if a friend got Covid in this situation. What would you say to them?
posted by bluedaisy at 4:22 PM on June 8, 2022 [6 favorites]
Part of this is also about understanding that it’s not a virtue not to have gotten Covid. Yes, we make choices, but many people don’t have as much privilege to be able to limit their interactions with others.
Think if a friend got Covid in this situation. What would you say to them?
posted by bluedaisy at 4:22 PM on June 8, 2022 [6 favorites]
You went out one night after 2 years of being locked up in the house, that doesn't sound thoughtless, self serving behavior to me. Your just a person who needs a break, like we all do. I think everyone is aware, by now, that social gatherings are potentially harmful, meaning that you are no more guilty than anyone else there. You and they, take the same chances when you go to the supermarket or any other enclosed public space. I'm not saying you shouldn't be careful but don't beat yourself up over it.
posted by doctor_negative at 4:26 PM on June 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by doctor_negative at 4:26 PM on June 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
Here are the steps of repentance in the Jewish tradition - doing this entitles you to forgiveness.
1. Regret - feel remorse, regret what you did (you have this)
2. Renounce the behavior - Be clear that this was wrong, period (you've got this)
3. Confess - saying out loud to others makes it real. (you did this by telling the venue and by telling the story here
4. Reconcile - apologize and make a genuine effort to work things out with the other person (don't apply in your situation )
5. Make amends - fix the harm you did. If you can't fix it directly, then do what you can indirectly to make the world a better place. Figure out who is providing services to people who are impacted by COVID and either volunteer or make a donation. Or figure out how serve the medically vulnerable to help out there. Or take a public stance that is pro-masking and pro-caring about the vulnerable in our community. (take the energy from your guilt and in turn into action that will make a difference on the world instead of turning inward to make yourself miserable.
6. Resolve - set yourself not to repeat the action (you are already doing this)
So, this rubric would say that you still need to find a way to make amends. Do that, maintain your resolve to be more careful and then you will know that have done true repentance and you can release the guilt (but not the resolve)
posted by metahawk at 4:28 PM on June 8, 2022 [43 favorites]
1. Regret - feel remorse, regret what you did (you have this)
2. Renounce the behavior - Be clear that this was wrong, period (you've got this)
3. Confess - saying out loud to others makes it real. (you did this by telling the venue and by telling the story here
4. Reconcile - apologize and make a genuine effort to work things out with the other person (don't apply in your situation )
5. Make amends - fix the harm you did. If you can't fix it directly, then do what you can indirectly to make the world a better place. Figure out who is providing services to people who are impacted by COVID and either volunteer or make a donation. Or figure out how serve the medically vulnerable to help out there. Or take a public stance that is pro-masking and pro-caring about the vulnerable in our community. (take the energy from your guilt and in turn into action that will make a difference on the world instead of turning inward to make yourself miserable.
6. Resolve - set yourself not to repeat the action (you are already doing this)
So, this rubric would say that you still need to find a way to make amends. Do that, maintain your resolve to be more careful and then you will know that have done true repentance and you can release the guilt (but not the resolve)
posted by metahawk at 4:28 PM on June 8, 2022 [43 favorites]
I was having what I assumed were allergy symptoms, but I took an antigen test just in case. It was negative, which was a relief,
This is what happened to my theater friend. She thought it was allergies, went to the doctor, tested negative, then went to rehearsal without a mask on and sang. Unfortunately she went superspreader (or something/somebody did, anyway) and even though she did her due diligence, it was covid and a lot of people got it. Now, I think most everyone except about four people (some people who weren't around the previous day got it from her being there) got infected the day before she got symptoms at all so shit happens, but these days covid is foiling people.
I totally caved in on Superspreader Day. I had been masking up wherever possible previously, but I gave in to the social pressure of "I'm the only one wearing one" and gave up that day. I should have caught it. I don't know how I didn't. I'm still beating myself up anyway for doing that level of stupid.
At this point, I think all you can do is learn from the experience:
(a) DO NOT GO OUT UNMASKED IN PUBLIC, PERIOD. We really should never, ever go out without a mask in public again any more.
(b) "Allergies" may very well be covid now, act as if they are and proceed accordingly like it's covid. It's far more likely to be covid than allergies, or a random cold, or whatever any more these days.
(c) It takes something like 2-5 days to test negative after symptoms happen in some people's cases. You're not okay just because you're negative that day if you have symptoms. One of my friends tested negative for two days, figured he was fine to take the mask off despite having a cough....guess how that went.
(d) We need to suck it up and keep that mask on, even if we are the only person in 100 people who is wearing one and we feel weird about it. (Ben Stiller knows exactly how you feel.)
Also...OUR BRAINS ARE BROKEN FROM OVER TWO YEARS OF THIS SHIT. I am the second most paranoid person I know and even I have been behaving in a fucking reckless manner at times. I performed onstage without a mask because I didn't want to be "the only one" doing it and looking weird. I am eating indoors in restaurants (though I do mask up before and after). I caved in and unmasked at a friend's house this weekend and lucky for me she only got exposed to covid after I left her house. We are exhausted, we want to get back to normal (and yet never will again), and we're so tired of living in paranoia and fear about this shit. We aren't functioning or thinking properly to keep ourselves safe at all times any more, and the rest of the world "going back to normal" is actively working against that.
The best you can do at this point is continue to live your life, BUT WITH A MASK ON, and if you get symptoms of anything, assume it's covid for like, the next five days or so and behave accordingly. I'm not gonna tell you to not feel guilty because hell, I do and I didn't even catch it. BUT you do need to recognize that you are suffering from pandemic fatigue and therefore weren't making the best possible decisions out of sheer mental exhaustion. Sometimes these days we just do stupid fucking things so we can feel "normal" again and then get burnt, because we can't keep living like this. Except we have to keep living like this :(
tldr: Learn from this experience, and to some degree accept that you made this mistake because of excruciating extenuating circumstances and pandemic burnout afflicting your thinking. You literally weren't thinking straight. It's happening to everyone now.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:45 PM on June 8, 2022 [20 favorites]
This is what happened to my theater friend. She thought it was allergies, went to the doctor, tested negative, then went to rehearsal without a mask on and sang. Unfortunately she went superspreader (or something/somebody did, anyway) and even though she did her due diligence, it was covid and a lot of people got it. Now, I think most everyone except about four people (some people who weren't around the previous day got it from her being there) got infected the day before she got symptoms at all so shit happens, but these days covid is foiling people.
I totally caved in on Superspreader Day. I had been masking up wherever possible previously, but I gave in to the social pressure of "I'm the only one wearing one" and gave up that day. I should have caught it. I don't know how I didn't. I'm still beating myself up anyway for doing that level of stupid.
At this point, I think all you can do is learn from the experience:
(a) DO NOT GO OUT UNMASKED IN PUBLIC, PERIOD. We really should never, ever go out without a mask in public again any more.
(b) "Allergies" may very well be covid now, act as if they are and proceed accordingly like it's covid. It's far more likely to be covid than allergies, or a random cold, or whatever any more these days.
(c) It takes something like 2-5 days to test negative after symptoms happen in some people's cases. You're not okay just because you're negative that day if you have symptoms. One of my friends tested negative for two days, figured he was fine to take the mask off despite having a cough....guess how that went.
(d) We need to suck it up and keep that mask on, even if we are the only person in 100 people who is wearing one and we feel weird about it. (Ben Stiller knows exactly how you feel.)
Also...OUR BRAINS ARE BROKEN FROM OVER TWO YEARS OF THIS SHIT. I am the second most paranoid person I know and even I have been behaving in a fucking reckless manner at times. I performed onstage without a mask because I didn't want to be "the only one" doing it and looking weird. I am eating indoors in restaurants (though I do mask up before and after). I caved in and unmasked at a friend's house this weekend and lucky for me she only got exposed to covid after I left her house. We are exhausted, we want to get back to normal (and yet never will again), and we're so tired of living in paranoia and fear about this shit. We aren't functioning or thinking properly to keep ourselves safe at all times any more, and the rest of the world "going back to normal" is actively working against that.
The best you can do at this point is continue to live your life, BUT WITH A MASK ON, and if you get symptoms of anything, assume it's covid for like, the next five days or so and behave accordingly. I'm not gonna tell you to not feel guilty because hell, I do and I didn't even catch it. BUT you do need to recognize that you are suffering from pandemic fatigue and therefore weren't making the best possible decisions out of sheer mental exhaustion. Sometimes these days we just do stupid fucking things so we can feel "normal" again and then get burnt, because we can't keep living like this. Except we have to keep living like this :(
tldr: Learn from this experience, and to some degree accept that you made this mistake because of excruciating extenuating circumstances and pandemic burnout afflicting your thinking. You literally weren't thinking straight. It's happening to everyone now.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:45 PM on June 8, 2022 [20 favorites]
The best we can do with mistakes is to learn from them. In this case, the mistake can motivate you, in future, to:
- Test before attending a crowded indoor event
- Mask up indoors when experiencing respiratory symptoms of any kind
Your own experience can now also serve as a cautionary tale when you speak to others about their practices & not endangering their fellow humans.
posted by Pallas Athena at 4:48 PM on June 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
- Test before attending a crowded indoor event
- Mask up indoors when experiencing respiratory symptoms of any kind
Your own experience can now also serve as a cautionary tale when you speak to others about their practices & not endangering their fellow humans.
posted by Pallas Athena at 4:48 PM on June 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
I would like to gently push back against the idea that we, as a society, need to mask forevermore. We don’t. There’s a point where this became a question of personal levels of risk. My kids are unmasked in elementary school and will be until the risk of covid outweighs the benefit of normal social interactions.
We had covid. We definitely gave covid to my daughter’s best friend family. I felt incredibly awful, the guilt was terrible. Two of their kids are two young to vaxxed. My daughter had cold symptoms for a day but tested negative multiple times (this was in January) and she was symptom free by the time I tested positive days later. Everyone was still masking at school but it didn’t matter.
What my friend said was kind: don’t feel guilty, it could have been the other way around. The kids caught it off each other because they love each other and were living their life.
What helped me was realizing that I, personally, would have been more concerned about helping my friend not feel bad about spreading covid than I would have been about covid itself.
Be kind to yourself, it’s a new world out here. Covid’s not going anywhere.
posted by lydhre at 5:03 PM on June 8, 2022 [43 favorites]
We had covid. We definitely gave covid to my daughter’s best friend family. I felt incredibly awful, the guilt was terrible. Two of their kids are two young to vaxxed. My daughter had cold symptoms for a day but tested negative multiple times (this was in January) and she was symptom free by the time I tested positive days later. Everyone was still masking at school but it didn’t matter.
What my friend said was kind: don’t feel guilty, it could have been the other way around. The kids caught it off each other because they love each other and were living their life.
What helped me was realizing that I, personally, would have been more concerned about helping my friend not feel bad about spreading covid than I would have been about covid itself.
Be kind to yourself, it’s a new world out here. Covid’s not going anywhere.
posted by lydhre at 5:03 PM on June 8, 2022 [43 favorites]
Here is a practical step you can take: every month, buy a bunch of rapid tests and get reimbursed by your insurance. Always have a few boxes in your house. Test whenever you feel under the weather. Don't think of testing as a special occasion thing. Go to a concert, don't wear a mask, but test the day you go to the concert, not five days before.
Yes, as some have said above, it's time to let go and move on to the endemic phase. But there's still room to be careful, and it sounds like you are someone who wants to be careful. Go for it.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 5:17 PM on June 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
Yes, as some have said above, it's time to let go and move on to the endemic phase. But there's still room to be careful, and it sounds like you are someone who wants to be careful. Go for it.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 5:17 PM on June 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
These are the lines that stood out to me:
I've been really cautious throughout the entire pandemic (no gatherings, getting vaccinated, always masking when out or with other people, testing when I feel sick, etc)
I did not test beforehand (still assuming my sore throat and watery eyes were allergies) and did not wear a mask. Why? I guess I wanted to keep assuming it was allergies, and I wanted to enjoy the concert without the inconvenience of a mask.
I hate that I turned my back on my deeply held values of community care + collective safety for the cheap thrill of a concert.
I don't want to do nice or fun things because what if I forget the guilt and do something reckless again, and hurt others?
I think one key step is to not minimize your need for things like going to hear live music as a "cheap thrill." The first time I heard live music post-COVID, which in my case was an informal outdoor performance I came across accidentally, to my surprise I started to cry. I knew I had missed live music, but I didn't realize I had missed it that much. If you use your guilt simply to deny yourself joy, you will achieve nothing but making yourself more miserable, and thus more likely to behave in some way you regret.
Of course, there are ways to bring joy into your life that do not involve standing unmasked, for hours, in an indoor space with 80-100 people. It sounds like you've been denying yourself a lot of joy since the pandemic started - no gatherings? Not even outdoors? How many hugs have you gotten in the past month? Do you not have anyone in your life who you can be indoors, unmasked, like normal times? These are real, valid, human needs, and if you've been depriving yourself of these for over two years, no wonder you snapped and did something reckless! I urge you not to respond by punishing yourself further, but figuring out less risky ways to meet these needs.
posted by coffeecat at 5:22 PM on June 8, 2022 [25 favorites]
I've been really cautious throughout the entire pandemic (no gatherings, getting vaccinated, always masking when out or with other people, testing when I feel sick, etc)
I did not test beforehand (still assuming my sore throat and watery eyes were allergies) and did not wear a mask. Why? I guess I wanted to keep assuming it was allergies, and I wanted to enjoy the concert without the inconvenience of a mask.
I hate that I turned my back on my deeply held values of community care + collective safety for the cheap thrill of a concert.
I don't want to do nice or fun things because what if I forget the guilt and do something reckless again, and hurt others?
I think one key step is to not minimize your need for things like going to hear live music as a "cheap thrill." The first time I heard live music post-COVID, which in my case was an informal outdoor performance I came across accidentally, to my surprise I started to cry. I knew I had missed live music, but I didn't realize I had missed it that much. If you use your guilt simply to deny yourself joy, you will achieve nothing but making yourself more miserable, and thus more likely to behave in some way you regret.
Of course, there are ways to bring joy into your life that do not involve standing unmasked, for hours, in an indoor space with 80-100 people. It sounds like you've been denying yourself a lot of joy since the pandemic started - no gatherings? Not even outdoors? How many hugs have you gotten in the past month? Do you not have anyone in your life who you can be indoors, unmasked, like normal times? These are real, valid, human needs, and if you've been depriving yourself of these for over two years, no wonder you snapped and did something reckless! I urge you not to respond by punishing yourself further, but figuring out less risky ways to meet these needs.
posted by coffeecat at 5:22 PM on June 8, 2022 [25 favorites]
This was not okay - even if the other people there consented, the people they interact with did not - but you know that. All you can do here is recommit to acting in line with your values in the future. What combination of testing/masking/skipping that means, only you can say. I would suggest that now you know you can convince yourself to minimize symptoms, your new regimen be home testing before events like this, no matter what, so you don't have to make a subjective decision on the fly, but you'll have to decide what's right for you.
But here's the thing: if you were my friend and I heard this story I'd be really upset with you - but I would still want you to take care of yourself and I would still think you deserved nice and fun things. You have lived through 2+ years of trauma too, you are making decisions on your own in a society that has largely chosen to turn its back on values of collective care, and you made a bad decision. Okay. You are still a worthwhile person deserving of care and pleasure and kindness.
You're ill. Take care of yourself now. When you are feeling better, take stock of how to set yourself up for better choices next time. Maybe tell this story to people in your life who you think might be affected by it to make better choices, too. Talk with your therapist about how to address guilt when you will never know if or how much harm you caused, and can't make direct amends - that's a very human problem in its broad outlines, and they may have useful ideas for you.
posted by Stacey at 5:27 PM on June 8, 2022 [6 favorites]
But here's the thing: if you were my friend and I heard this story I'd be really upset with you - but I would still want you to take care of yourself and I would still think you deserved nice and fun things. You have lived through 2+ years of trauma too, you are making decisions on your own in a society that has largely chosen to turn its back on values of collective care, and you made a bad decision. Okay. You are still a worthwhile person deserving of care and pleasure and kindness.
You're ill. Take care of yourself now. When you are feeling better, take stock of how to set yourself up for better choices next time. Maybe tell this story to people in your life who you think might be affected by it to make better choices, too. Talk with your therapist about how to address guilt when you will never know if or how much harm you caused, and can't make direct amends - that's a very human problem in its broad outlines, and they may have useful ideas for you.
posted by Stacey at 5:27 PM on June 8, 2022 [6 favorites]
At this point, many people are having similar experiences to you. I know of multiple people who had very mild symptoms and basically didn't think (or didn't want to believe) that it could be covid.
There's no real point beating yourself up over this. It doesn't help anyone. What you can do is remember that when you had covid, the symptoms were mild and it's important to test frequently even with mild symptoms. Talk to others about your experience to encourage others to isolate and test even if they are in disbelief that it might be covid.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 5:28 PM on June 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
There's no real point beating yourself up over this. It doesn't help anyone. What you can do is remember that when you had covid, the symptoms were mild and it's important to test frequently even with mild symptoms. Talk to others about your experience to encourage others to isolate and test even if they are in disbelief that it might be covid.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 5:28 PM on June 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
You are a wonderful person for caring as much as you do for other people. It's clear that you are a compassionate person. Please don't beat yourself up.
I am right there with you on all of this stuff. I plan on wearing a mask indoors for the foreseeable future for all the reasons you stated and then some. I still think you need to forgive yourself.
Make amends if it helps. Take heart reading all the answers here. Everyone fucks up sometime somehow. Show some of that wonderful compassion for yourself please.
posted by RobinofFrocksley at 5:35 PM on June 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
I am right there with you on all of this stuff. I plan on wearing a mask indoors for the foreseeable future for all the reasons you stated and then some. I still think you need to forgive yourself.
Make amends if it helps. Take heart reading all the answers here. Everyone fucks up sometime somehow. Show some of that wonderful compassion for yourself please.
posted by RobinofFrocksley at 5:35 PM on June 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
Would you judge anyone else who got Covid as harshly as you are judging yourself?
posted by redlines at 5:38 PM on June 8, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by redlines at 5:38 PM on June 8, 2022 [7 favorites]
I think some of these comments are harsh. no, you don't need to do hours of community service or some other kind of repentance to make up for what you did. You had allergy symptoms during allergy season and tested negative. You're triple vaxxed and have been cautious. It's not like you're unvaxxed and were severely ill. This is all of our lives now, for better or worse. COVID is going to spread and perfection is an impossible standard to hold for yourself.
These things happen. It is okay. You did not commit a terrible crime. Consider calling the venue your repentance. If you're more comfortable, take a test the day before any large gathering and wear a mask from now on. But also remember that we are in a different phase of this pandemic than we were two years ago, and we cannot hold ourselves to the standards we set in April 2020. You are allowed to live. Now forgive yourself and let this go.
posted by Amy93 at 5:46 PM on June 8, 2022 [45 favorites]
These things happen. It is okay. You did not commit a terrible crime. Consider calling the venue your repentance. If you're more comfortable, take a test the day before any large gathering and wear a mask from now on. But also remember that we are in a different phase of this pandemic than we were two years ago, and we cannot hold ourselves to the standards we set in April 2020. You are allowed to live. Now forgive yourself and let this go.
posted by Amy93 at 5:46 PM on June 8, 2022 [45 favorites]
On The Good Place, Doug Forcett is meant to be a cautionary tale, not a role model.
You take COVID very seriously and, at least one time, prioritized your preference and comfort over doing the maximum for COVID prevention beyond what public health policy requires. I have an immune compromised spouse. I don't go anywhere unmasked. And I'm NOT judging you for not wearing a mask at the concert. I'm bothered that there aren't mask mandates in place at a policy level, either from a state/local government standpoint or private venues hosting large events. But a vaccinated person who tested negative before attending a concert not choosing to wear a mask when they're not required by the local government or venue? This is a perfect example of public health being way more complex than individual responsibility. Catching COVID isn't an individual moral failing. It's just not. Allowing COVID spread due to anemic or nonexistent public health policies is a government failure. We need population-level public health policies because even the most cautious, conscientious, and thoughtful individuals do things like choose to go unmasked because they can, and they just want to enjoy the damn concert. That's ok. That's human. You're ok.
posted by theotherdurassister at 6:06 PM on June 8, 2022 [12 favorites]
You take COVID very seriously and, at least one time, prioritized your preference and comfort over doing the maximum for COVID prevention beyond what public health policy requires. I have an immune compromised spouse. I don't go anywhere unmasked. And I'm NOT judging you for not wearing a mask at the concert. I'm bothered that there aren't mask mandates in place at a policy level, either from a state/local government standpoint or private venues hosting large events. But a vaccinated person who tested negative before attending a concert not choosing to wear a mask when they're not required by the local government or venue? This is a perfect example of public health being way more complex than individual responsibility. Catching COVID isn't an individual moral failing. It's just not. Allowing COVID spread due to anemic or nonexistent public health policies is a government failure. We need population-level public health policies because even the most cautious, conscientious, and thoughtful individuals do things like choose to go unmasked because they can, and they just want to enjoy the damn concert. That's ok. That's human. You're ok.
posted by theotherdurassister at 6:06 PM on June 8, 2022 [12 favorites]
This isn’t really an answer but I’ll just say that I experienced something very similar recently where my wedding of ~115 vaccinated and tested guests became a super spreader event (18 direct cases plus a few more when partners/family members of attendees also became sick after the fact). A guest let us know that they were ill on Monday morning after. I have an MPH and even worked in contact tracing for a year. The only real solace I found was that my wedding was right before many college graduations and my experience helped a immunocompromised friend decide not to attend hers in person and likely kept her from getting COVID.
I’ve mostly been reading this thread for myself. You’re certainly not the only one to make a mistake. I can take to heart the comments above that speak to the fact that individuals can’t be personally responsible for all systemic failures, it’s just too much to carry. That being said, I hold community and community support as a near and dear value. It’s frustrating to have people say, “it’s been two years, what can y’a do?” To me that feels like we are giving up on immunocompromised people and I’m not ok with that. (To those who say “what would you say to a friend in this situation is probably say “that was pretty freakin dumb, but you have to move forward.” Not “it’s ok.”)
Deciding on concrete change going forward is important to me. I’m going to continue wearing my kn95 mask indoors, favor outdoor settings, not take any symptoms for granted (myself and many other who tested positive only stayed home because they heard from others in the group that they initially had a negative COVID test and the symptoms seemed like allergies, otherwise they would have also accepted the negative test at face value), I will continue to advocate and support business and groups that advocate for public health measures.
The other thing that has helped me is looking at it through a consent lens. All those people knew the circumstances they were entering in to. This didn’t happen at a grocery store or while you were working at a daycare. This happened while you were at an event where other adults decided to put themselves at risk knowing that we’re still in a pandemic. You can make your own safer choices but you can’t make those for other people. And when people can’t make safer choices for themselves (ex. they are immunocompromised but still need to buy groceries,) you can do the safest thing possible and available to you
posted by raccoon409 at 6:36 PM on June 8, 2022 [10 favorites]
I’ve mostly been reading this thread for myself. You’re certainly not the only one to make a mistake. I can take to heart the comments above that speak to the fact that individuals can’t be personally responsible for all systemic failures, it’s just too much to carry. That being said, I hold community and community support as a near and dear value. It’s frustrating to have people say, “it’s been two years, what can y’a do?” To me that feels like we are giving up on immunocompromised people and I’m not ok with that. (To those who say “what would you say to a friend in this situation is probably say “that was pretty freakin dumb, but you have to move forward.” Not “it’s ok.”)
Deciding on concrete change going forward is important to me. I’m going to continue wearing my kn95 mask indoors, favor outdoor settings, not take any symptoms for granted (myself and many other who tested positive only stayed home because they heard from others in the group that they initially had a negative COVID test and the symptoms seemed like allergies, otherwise they would have also accepted the negative test at face value), I will continue to advocate and support business and groups that advocate for public health measures.
The other thing that has helped me is looking at it through a consent lens. All those people knew the circumstances they were entering in to. This didn’t happen at a grocery store or while you were working at a daycare. This happened while you were at an event where other adults decided to put themselves at risk knowing that we’re still in a pandemic. You can make your own safer choices but you can’t make those for other people. And when people can’t make safer choices for themselves (ex. they are immunocompromised but still need to buy groceries,) you can do the safest thing possible and available to you
posted by raccoon409 at 6:36 PM on June 8, 2022 [10 favorites]
In a large gathering I assume that several people have covid. It's just the odds these days, and people who choose to attend unmasked know that, and are willing to take that risk. I am now one of those people, after vaccines etc. It is MY responsibility, if I wanted to mask or double mask I would, as I used to.
At a high level It doesn't really matter to me if each of those people tested positive and didn't care (although that's really shitty) or had allergy symptoms and tested and then didn't test again, or just randomly were asymptomatic. Some nonzero percentage of people in that room had covid, and everyone knew it. Yes it feels bad to be one of those people, but it doesn't change anything for the other people there.
posted by true at 6:40 PM on June 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
At a high level It doesn't really matter to me if each of those people tested positive and didn't care (although that's really shitty) or had allergy symptoms and tested and then didn't test again, or just randomly were asymptomatic. Some nonzero percentage of people in that room had covid, and everyone knew it. Yes it feels bad to be one of those people, but it doesn't change anything for the other people there.
posted by true at 6:40 PM on June 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
Last fall I went to the doctor with a sore throat, and he said as long as I don't have a fever I don't need to worry about being contagious. He didn't test me for covid (or strep or anything else), and just told me to take more allergy meds.
As far as I can tell you followed my doctor's advice, so don't beat yourself up about it.
Personally I have some allergy symptoms basically all the time so I mostly just assume they're allergies. I have been masking in crowds (but almost nobody else is).
posted by elizabot at 7:17 PM on June 8, 2022
As far as I can tell you followed my doctor's advice, so don't beat yourself up about it.
Personally I have some allergy symptoms basically all the time so I mostly just assume they're allergies. I have been masking in crowds (but almost nobody else is).
posted by elizabot at 7:17 PM on June 8, 2022
OK, so here's my story. It's random but maybe will provide some consolation or at least be a distraction for 30 seconds.
I'm a public schoolteacher in a liberal suburb where most people are vaccinated but many people are getting sick with the latest variant. I'm triple vaxxed, and look forward to my fourth. I was a huge proponent of masking and even dealt with a lot of flak when I posted my support of keeping the mask requirement on a pro-school masking Instagram post where some people shared that I should quit teaching and/or kill myself for wanting everyone to stay safe via universal masking in schools. Um, ok?! Both awful and hilarious. I didn't take a day off out of solidarity, tested myself often, stayed masked longer than most in public, etc.
Fast forward to a few months later, a few weeks after the mask ban was lifted, and I decided to take my mask off. It's been a fucking relief!!! At first I was like "hell no" but then noticed that the first kids to unmask were not Trumpsers or the like but rather teens on the autism spectrum who wore their masks dutifully but must have really struggled. A few more people followed and a few teachers, too. They found themselves being yelled at a lot because, after all, it's a liberal area (thank god?!) In any case, I started slowly but surely, kept my distance, did an on-off thing, etc. Ultimately having my mask off is a huge relief, although I'll mask again as needed/requested. I don't judge people either way.
Now I find myself reassuring kids who feel so guilty, mask-wearing or not, for testing positive for COVID. Often they were asymptomatic or maybe they're COVID negative but a sibling has it. Etc. A lot of people hide it but some are ashamed, and I try to assure them: "Thanks for letting me know! I hope you feel better soon. Please don't feel bad -- lots of people have COVID now. We don't want anyone to get sick but it happens, and it's ok! We just want you to be well and feel OK."
A lot of kids hide having COVID out of shame or their parents made them go to school anyway (the kids were also ashamed.) I teach middle school, which is always hard but extra hard now. I learned a lot of kids keep their masks on because they feel they're ugly, which is tragic because they're obviously all beautiful. But we've masked for two years and feel nervous! They worry about "mask fishing", that a crush will no longer like them bc the crush will think they're ugly without their masks. (Impossible -- we may look different but not ugly!) A lot of kids have been hospitalized for suicide attempts: those were the few kids who used COVID as an excuse because that was a rare occasion where COVID felt less threatening than the reality, which is sad because everyone has struggled and would understand. I had to do a lesson on reading each other's facial expressions because kids have gotten used to not looking hard and/or hiding their own expressions due to COVID fears. The kids were 14, like wtf. We're all a hot mess, eh? I teach language and so many kids have felt they're dumb because they struggle to hear and misunderstand. I mean, I can totally relate; we all can. I have called the wrong kid out for talking because I can't see faces, whoops! OK, they were probably all talking. I am wearing lipstick again and smiling at students in the hallway and they're smiling back. For a long time people were even afraid to say hello! We buried ourselves in our computers, and tech is great but no substitute for genuine human connection.
The bottom line? We are all struggling, and we are all trying out best. I want to be safe physically but gosh I missed connecting socially and emotionally. I still avoid strangers in public but gosh I love seeing my students. And I love hugging my friends again. And looking at my friends' full faces. There is a risk to it all but there's also a risk to not being able to connect. So many of us have suffered from isolation or a disconnect and the only antidote is social connection and community building. You felt that power and you listened to your heart; you happened to have gotten sick. It's too bad but everyone knew the risk they were taking, including you. Maybe your maskless presence made someone feel better in a hard time because you were smiling or just radiating good vibes. I know you feel guilty and don't want to be told not to worry so I won't. But here's a different way to look at it too. <3
posted by smorgasbord at 7:20 PM on June 8, 2022 [13 favorites]
I'm a public schoolteacher in a liberal suburb where most people are vaccinated but many people are getting sick with the latest variant. I'm triple vaxxed, and look forward to my fourth. I was a huge proponent of masking and even dealt with a lot of flak when I posted my support of keeping the mask requirement on a pro-school masking Instagram post where some people shared that I should quit teaching and/or kill myself for wanting everyone to stay safe via universal masking in schools. Um, ok?! Both awful and hilarious. I didn't take a day off out of solidarity, tested myself often, stayed masked longer than most in public, etc.
Fast forward to a few months later, a few weeks after the mask ban was lifted, and I decided to take my mask off. It's been a fucking relief!!! At first I was like "hell no" but then noticed that the first kids to unmask were not Trumpsers or the like but rather teens on the autism spectrum who wore their masks dutifully but must have really struggled. A few more people followed and a few teachers, too. They found themselves being yelled at a lot because, after all, it's a liberal area (thank god?!) In any case, I started slowly but surely, kept my distance, did an on-off thing, etc. Ultimately having my mask off is a huge relief, although I'll mask again as needed/requested. I don't judge people either way.
Now I find myself reassuring kids who feel so guilty, mask-wearing or not, for testing positive for COVID. Often they were asymptomatic or maybe they're COVID negative but a sibling has it. Etc. A lot of people hide it but some are ashamed, and I try to assure them: "Thanks for letting me know! I hope you feel better soon. Please don't feel bad -- lots of people have COVID now. We don't want anyone to get sick but it happens, and it's ok! We just want you to be well and feel OK."
A lot of kids hide having COVID out of shame or their parents made them go to school anyway (the kids were also ashamed.) I teach middle school, which is always hard but extra hard now. I learned a lot of kids keep their masks on because they feel they're ugly, which is tragic because they're obviously all beautiful. But we've masked for two years and feel nervous! They worry about "mask fishing", that a crush will no longer like them bc the crush will think they're ugly without their masks. (Impossible -- we may look different but not ugly!) A lot of kids have been hospitalized for suicide attempts: those were the few kids who used COVID as an excuse because that was a rare occasion where COVID felt less threatening than the reality, which is sad because everyone has struggled and would understand. I had to do a lesson on reading each other's facial expressions because kids have gotten used to not looking hard and/or hiding their own expressions due to COVID fears. The kids were 14, like wtf. We're all a hot mess, eh? I teach language and so many kids have felt they're dumb because they struggle to hear and misunderstand. I mean, I can totally relate; we all can. I have called the wrong kid out for talking because I can't see faces, whoops! OK, they were probably all talking. I am wearing lipstick again and smiling at students in the hallway and they're smiling back. For a long time people were even afraid to say hello! We buried ourselves in our computers, and tech is great but no substitute for genuine human connection.
The bottom line? We are all struggling, and we are all trying out best. I want to be safe physically but gosh I missed connecting socially and emotionally. I still avoid strangers in public but gosh I love seeing my students. And I love hugging my friends again. And looking at my friends' full faces. There is a risk to it all but there's also a risk to not being able to connect. So many of us have suffered from isolation or a disconnect and the only antidote is social connection and community building. You felt that power and you listened to your heart; you happened to have gotten sick. It's too bad but everyone knew the risk they were taking, including you. Maybe your maskless presence made someone feel better in a hard time because you were smiling or just radiating good vibes. I know you feel guilty and don't want to be told not to worry so I won't. But here's a different way to look at it too. <3
posted by smorgasbord at 7:20 PM on June 8, 2022 [13 favorites]
I would also have the urge to channel my guilt into something helpful. Now that you've just had covid you're unlikely to get it again in the next couple months, so maybe you could use your higher immunity to help others (masked of course, it's not foolproof) - delivering food to neighbours who are sick or quarantining, or running errands for someone immunocompromised?
posted by nouvelle-personne at 7:24 PM on June 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by nouvelle-personne at 7:24 PM on June 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
Why are you assuming that you brought Covid to the concert, and didn't catch it there yourself?
posted by Jacqueline at 7:26 PM on June 8, 2022 [18 favorites]
posted by Jacqueline at 7:26 PM on June 8, 2022 [18 favorites]
Here's the thing though: In a group of 80-100 people at a concert right now (assuming you are in the US), you probably weren't the only one with Covid. We don't have good data, but it's probable that there was someone else with Covid there, if not more than one person. So I think it is fair to assume that anyone who is going out to a concert unmasked has accepted that risk (I don't think that's a rational choice, but that's not for me to decide). People know that lots of people have Covid around them and they are making their own choices.
As a vaccinated person five days after symptom onset, you would be not that likely to transmit much virus to others. The positive rapid test means you were theoretically able to transmit, but the likelihood of that happening was significantly less than for someone unvaccinated three days into their infection, for instance. So I bet there was someone more contagious at the concert.
It would be wonderful if we lived in a world where we worked together to protect each other from Covid, but the reality is we largely don't. You can swim against that tide to some degree and follow your own moral compass, but there's really little you can do to protect the community in general right now, because far too many people have Covid, there's far too much transmission and not many people care any more. And that's something we can't really change.
As someone who is more vulnerable, it's wonderful that you're doing what you can to protect others. But I also know that most people aren't doing that, so I'm absolutely not going to go to indoor events. If I did do that and got infected, I would 100% hold myself responsible. That's just the world we live in right now.
posted by ssg at 8:43 PM on June 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
As a vaccinated person five days after symptom onset, you would be not that likely to transmit much virus to others. The positive rapid test means you were theoretically able to transmit, but the likelihood of that happening was significantly less than for someone unvaccinated three days into their infection, for instance. So I bet there was someone more contagious at the concert.
It would be wonderful if we lived in a world where we worked together to protect each other from Covid, but the reality is we largely don't. You can swim against that tide to some degree and follow your own moral compass, but there's really little you can do to protect the community in general right now, because far too many people have Covid, there's far too much transmission and not many people care any more. And that's something we can't really change.
As someone who is more vulnerable, it's wonderful that you're doing what you can to protect others. But I also know that most people aren't doing that, so I'm absolutely not going to go to indoor events. If I did do that and got infected, I would 100% hold myself responsible. That's just the world we live in right now.
posted by ssg at 8:43 PM on June 8, 2022 [1 favorite]
Ok, in direct answer to your question, I would (and did) report my COVID infection to public health authorities, doing my best to backtrack locations and times. That’s about all you can really do about that event. Mask in future etc of course.
(If you’re really aching to unburden yourself, something I personally think is really worth doing in general is advocating for governments to support businesses and institutions in updating their HVAC and providing paid sick days and other employment supports. Because ok, you screwed up *once* - just like millions of other well-meaning, and less well-meaning, imperfect people are bound to do. And it’s going to happen with monkeypox and who knows what else, too.)
I did also want to mention that both myself and my dad, who’s **89** and has multiple cardiological issues plus two kinds of dementia, got COVID last month (from where, probably the hospital but who knows, omicron and its progeny are *hyper incredibly infectious*, could also have been from the elevator, the bus, the grocery store), and so far, so ok for the most part. (I have some residual, fleeting dizziness that leaves most people eventually, he’s fine!) We were told that by far, the biggest thing anyone can do to protect themselves and others is dunh dunh dunh duuuh - get vaccinated/boosted (which we did). That’s the #1 predictor of who’s going to be ok. Presumably, you did that. I’m going to guess that you probably tried to encourage people you know to do the same, or promoted it in some way? And likely will continue to, right?
No matter how careful or *briefly* indulgent any individual is, the solutions cannot be left to individuals. It’s not entirely an individual person problem, as much as some people want it to be.
posted by cotton dress sock at 8:51 PM on June 8, 2022 [6 favorites]
(If you’re really aching to unburden yourself, something I personally think is really worth doing in general is advocating for governments to support businesses and institutions in updating their HVAC and providing paid sick days and other employment supports. Because ok, you screwed up *once* - just like millions of other well-meaning, and less well-meaning, imperfect people are bound to do. And it’s going to happen with monkeypox and who knows what else, too.)
I did also want to mention that both myself and my dad, who’s **89** and has multiple cardiological issues plus two kinds of dementia, got COVID last month (from where, probably the hospital but who knows, omicron and its progeny are *hyper incredibly infectious*, could also have been from the elevator, the bus, the grocery store), and so far, so ok for the most part. (I have some residual, fleeting dizziness that leaves most people eventually, he’s fine!) We were told that by far, the biggest thing anyone can do to protect themselves and others is dunh dunh dunh duuuh - get vaccinated/boosted (which we did). That’s the #1 predictor of who’s going to be ok. Presumably, you did that. I’m going to guess that you probably tried to encourage people you know to do the same, or promoted it in some way? And likely will continue to, right?
No matter how careful or *briefly* indulgent any individual is, the solutions cannot be left to individuals. It’s not entirely an individual person problem, as much as some people want it to be.
posted by cotton dress sock at 8:51 PM on June 8, 2022 [6 favorites]
But in my experience, what that tight grip on the guilt does over time is make my world smaller and restrict my ability to act in ways that are consistent with my values. It doesn’t help me (it makes me miserable and self-destructive) and it doesn’t help other people (because it turns out that I generally tend to do the right thing even when I’m not hyper-fixated on making sure that happens - and I bet that’s true for you too! Even if you fucked up this time and maybe did cause harm, as we all do! - so holding onto the guilt doesn’t, like, suddenly motivate me to be a better person in a way that I wasn’t motivated before).
I want to echo this incredibly insightful comment by chaiyai.
Do you, in general, motivate yourself with negative reinforcement? For example scaring yourself about what might happen if you don't get something done? Being hard on yourself for, say, missing a deadline or forgetting something? Seeing mistakes as proof that you are a bad person?
That is not sustainable.
We are none of us in a place to judge whether or not Covid infection is inevitable and futile to avoid, or whether other people being unmasked is consent to being infected. All of that is beside the point. Leaving aside the elephant in the room which is immune compromised people being thrown under the bus by society.
The point is that you did something against your own values and you feel shame. To the point that you acknowledge is stopping you from moving on in a healthy way.
I would start by looking carefully at how I judge myself in general and challenging my assumptions about how to be a good person.
Is there even such a thing as a good person? Or are there just good actions? Do you judge others harshly, and now it hurts when that same judgment is turned on yourself? Or are you in the habit of dismissing and minimising your own needs?
This is a very confusing time and we're all struggling to figure out what is the right thing to do. It's so important to be kind and gentle with yourself.
If it helps, this Internet stranger forgives you and wishes you ease and peace, and trusts you to keep doing the right thing for yourself and the people around you.
posted by Zumbador at 9:59 PM on June 8, 2022 [7 favorites]
I want to echo this incredibly insightful comment by chaiyai.
Do you, in general, motivate yourself with negative reinforcement? For example scaring yourself about what might happen if you don't get something done? Being hard on yourself for, say, missing a deadline or forgetting something? Seeing mistakes as proof that you are a bad person?
That is not sustainable.
We are none of us in a place to judge whether or not Covid infection is inevitable and futile to avoid, or whether other people being unmasked is consent to being infected. All of that is beside the point. Leaving aside the elephant in the room which is immune compromised people being thrown under the bus by society.
The point is that you did something against your own values and you feel shame. To the point that you acknowledge is stopping you from moving on in a healthy way.
I would start by looking carefully at how I judge myself in general and challenging my assumptions about how to be a good person.
Is there even such a thing as a good person? Or are there just good actions? Do you judge others harshly, and now it hurts when that same judgment is turned on yourself? Or are you in the habit of dismissing and minimising your own needs?
This is a very confusing time and we're all struggling to figure out what is the right thing to do. It's so important to be kind and gentle with yourself.
If it helps, this Internet stranger forgives you and wishes you ease and peace, and trusts you to keep doing the right thing for yourself and the people around you.
posted by Zumbador at 9:59 PM on June 8, 2022 [7 favorites]
I agree with you that you made a serious error in judgment and see that you are really stuck on this because you need to know that you won't do this again. I am someone who for various reasons has absolutely terrible judgment and have made huge, horrible mistakes that have directly hurt people terribly. The only productive way I have found to deal with the guilt is to fix the problem at the root. So:
You have values, and you have a system of behaviors that are supposed to uphold those values, and your system failed you. Diagnose the problem and work in countermeasures. Look for root causes. You knew you should have tested, and you knew you should have worn a mask, yet you didn't -- why? Did you consider wearing a mask, but felt like you would stick out being in the 1%, and feared ostracization? It means your 'social acceptance' unit was at odds with your 'morals' unit and the social acceptance unit was weighted higher than morals. That's the root cause. I have that problem. It's really really hard to go against the grain. You assumed your symptoms were allergies and didn't test -- why? Maybe you feared COVID, or maybe you feared the feeling of vulnerability and loss of control that would come from acknowledging that you caught COVID despite all of your precautions, and that fear again outweighed your morals. I have that problem too -- I avoid facing my own mortality and vulnerability. Once you acknowledge the things that are stronger than your morals, you can look out for them and make different decisions next time. It is hard to spot these things in advance but you can learn from them.
You don't need to feel guilty for succumbing to these temptations, because you didn't choose to have these fears of vulnerability or these desires to fit in -- they were programmed into you, either culturally, or through evolution. But I think you recognize that having noticed faults in your system, circumstances in which you will not live up to your morals, you must make a choice to either correct the faults, or abandon your morals. If you explain it away as 'no big deal', then your morals too mean nothing, and you lose who you are and everything you care about. I have been learning lately that it is so so hard to be a truly moral person. You have to be absolutely uncompromising and willing to sacrifice everything. But it's better than abandoning your morals.
posted by PercussivePaul at 10:23 PM on June 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
You have values, and you have a system of behaviors that are supposed to uphold those values, and your system failed you. Diagnose the problem and work in countermeasures. Look for root causes. You knew you should have tested, and you knew you should have worn a mask, yet you didn't -- why? Did you consider wearing a mask, but felt like you would stick out being in the 1%, and feared ostracization? It means your 'social acceptance' unit was at odds with your 'morals' unit and the social acceptance unit was weighted higher than morals. That's the root cause. I have that problem. It's really really hard to go against the grain. You assumed your symptoms were allergies and didn't test -- why? Maybe you feared COVID, or maybe you feared the feeling of vulnerability and loss of control that would come from acknowledging that you caught COVID despite all of your precautions, and that fear again outweighed your morals. I have that problem too -- I avoid facing my own mortality and vulnerability. Once you acknowledge the things that are stronger than your morals, you can look out for them and make different decisions next time. It is hard to spot these things in advance but you can learn from them.
You don't need to feel guilty for succumbing to these temptations, because you didn't choose to have these fears of vulnerability or these desires to fit in -- they were programmed into you, either culturally, or through evolution. But I think you recognize that having noticed faults in your system, circumstances in which you will not live up to your morals, you must make a choice to either correct the faults, or abandon your morals. If you explain it away as 'no big deal', then your morals too mean nothing, and you lose who you are and everything you care about. I have been learning lately that it is so so hard to be a truly moral person. You have to be absolutely uncompromising and willing to sacrifice everything. But it's better than abandoning your morals.
posted by PercussivePaul at 10:23 PM on June 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
It feels too risky + morally wrong to stop feeling this way.
Feelings are not morally right or wrong. They're just feelings. And, in the end, being dominated by guilt and shame do not make you live morally. (Sometimes even the converse. If it gets bad enough, people will do or believe anything to make those feelings go away.) So forget about monitoring the morality of your emotions. They don't have a moral quality any more than they have mass.
I would consider looking into metta meditation and see if it strikes a chord with you. It starts with self-compassion/self-benevolence and moves steadily outward into the universe. If you feel that you've lapsed in your care and attention for those around you, it's a way of re-laying a foundation for that. But I'm no expert and it's just a suggestion.
posted by praemunire at 10:33 PM on June 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
Feelings are not morally right or wrong. They're just feelings. And, in the end, being dominated by guilt and shame do not make you live morally. (Sometimes even the converse. If it gets bad enough, people will do or believe anything to make those feelings go away.) So forget about monitoring the morality of your emotions. They don't have a moral quality any more than they have mass.
I would consider looking into metta meditation and see if it strikes a chord with you. It starts with self-compassion/self-benevolence and moves steadily outward into the universe. If you feel that you've lapsed in your care and attention for those around you, it's a way of re-laying a foundation for that. But I'm no expert and it's just a suggestion.
posted by praemunire at 10:33 PM on June 8, 2022 [4 favorites]
Are you by any chance…in your early 20s? You say you are “young,” and I could be off here, but some of the catastrophizing and self-flagellation read to me as marvelously naive — profoundly out of pace with what a wiser, calmer you might someday perceive. “I will feel bad about this FOREVER” is not always true or helpful or right. Why are you so committed to that story, that you are bad and did a bad thing and deserve to feel bad, bad bad bad bad??
What if you are NOT the world’s great covid villain? And in some ways, a kind of punishing self-aggrandizement allows you feel a sense of control over the pandemic? What if the vastness of these feelings of self-recrimination is just an inside-out version of the sense of helplessness? Your brain is saying, “If I can make choices bad enough to do *big harm* that must mean I can make choices good enough to do *big fix*!” So telling yourself that you are this megavillain also means telling yourself you can somehow control this global crisis.
Obviously individual choices matter….but I think you made fine individual choices. You tested negative and responded well to allergy medicine; it is not monstrous to have interpreted that as “it’s allergies.” In fact, that might very well be true!!!!!! You don’t actually know when you got covid or when you would have tested positive had you tested more regularly.
I get your sense of despair, fully and truly, but some of that despair is a response to an overwhelming, baffling system of injustice. It would be so much better if simple individual diligence would solve every public heath crisis.
I’m reminded of a line I heard a monk say once: “I have good news and great news. The good news is that Jesus lives! The great news is that you’re not him.”
posted by Charity Garfein at 12:50 AM on June 9, 2022 [14 favorites]
What if you are NOT the world’s great covid villain? And in some ways, a kind of punishing self-aggrandizement allows you feel a sense of control over the pandemic? What if the vastness of these feelings of self-recrimination is just an inside-out version of the sense of helplessness? Your brain is saying, “If I can make choices bad enough to do *big harm* that must mean I can make choices good enough to do *big fix*!” So telling yourself that you are this megavillain also means telling yourself you can somehow control this global crisis.
Obviously individual choices matter….but I think you made fine individual choices. You tested negative and responded well to allergy medicine; it is not monstrous to have interpreted that as “it’s allergies.” In fact, that might very well be true!!!!!! You don’t actually know when you got covid or when you would have tested positive had you tested more regularly.
I get your sense of despair, fully and truly, but some of that despair is a response to an overwhelming, baffling system of injustice. It would be so much better if simple individual diligence would solve every public heath crisis.
I’m reminded of a line I heard a monk say once: “I have good news and great news. The good news is that Jesus lives! The great news is that you’re not him.”
posted by Charity Garfein at 12:50 AM on June 9, 2022 [14 favorites]
Punishing yourself doesn’t change what happened. It might feel like you’re earning absolution somehow, but you’re really not. The best response to a mistake is, to try to be better next time. Beating yourself up for a prolonged period of time is not a good start.
I know it's warranted to feel it here, so I don't want to handwave it away
I mean this in the kindest possible way: you’re sure you’re right to feel guilty and don’t want dissuading from this, despite this post being about a different mistake you’ve made?
Everyone there made a calculated risk, and to try to take all the responsibility for any potential illness robs them of agency.
I caught it at a small party; it was just an unlucky roll. There’s no pantomime villain, and it doesn’t mean I made the wrong choice. (If I was “wrong” because I got it, then you have to start considering cases where I was sweating in a mask unnecessarily as “wrong” too, and that’s just silly.) I still assess on a risk/reward basis, which means I mask up at the supermarket but not with friends.
Emphasising, finally, that you may have caught Covid there, having gone with allergies alone. No way of knowing without a time machine and some tests. I’ve got an horrific Covid-negative cold right now, stronger symptoms than my actual infection. You can’t always tell what’s what.
posted by breakfast burrito at 3:58 AM on June 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
I know it's warranted to feel it here, so I don't want to handwave it away
I mean this in the kindest possible way: you’re sure you’re right to feel guilty and don’t want dissuading from this, despite this post being about a different mistake you’ve made?
Everyone there made a calculated risk, and to try to take all the responsibility for any potential illness robs them of agency.
I caught it at a small party; it was just an unlucky roll. There’s no pantomime villain, and it doesn’t mean I made the wrong choice. (If I was “wrong” because I got it, then you have to start considering cases where I was sweating in a mask unnecessarily as “wrong” too, and that’s just silly.) I still assess on a risk/reward basis, which means I mask up at the supermarket but not with friends.
Emphasising, finally, that you may have caught Covid there, having gone with allergies alone. No way of knowing without a time machine and some tests. I’ve got an horrific Covid-negative cold right now, stronger symptoms than my actual infection. You can’t always tell what’s what.
posted by breakfast burrito at 3:58 AM on June 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
I disagree with the flood of people saying you shouldn't feel bad or you didn't screw up; you definitely made the wrong call here. But you need to find your way back and not feel bad forever. Stewing in it can keep you from reaching out and doing things to improve your attitude and improve the world.
I think it's callous to rush into "the endemic phase" when over 1,000 are dying every week. But US culture favors callousness, just as it favors individual action over collective action.
So rather than just beating yourself up, work to become less callous and more compassionate. Work for collective action by getting into mutual aid, civil rights, or political volunteering. See if you can find local venues that require masks and/or testing, and patronize and promote them. Look for local businesses that are getting 1-star reviews online because of their stringent covid policies and patronize and promote them.
posted by rikschell at 4:36 AM on June 9, 2022 [5 favorites]
I think it's callous to rush into "the endemic phase" when over 1,000 are dying every week. But US culture favors callousness, just as it favors individual action over collective action.
So rather than just beating yourself up, work to become less callous and more compassionate. Work for collective action by getting into mutual aid, civil rights, or political volunteering. See if you can find local venues that require masks and/or testing, and patronize and promote them. Look for local businesses that are getting 1-star reviews online because of their stringent covid policies and patronize and promote them.
posted by rikschell at 4:36 AM on June 9, 2022 [5 favorites]
You messed up, as humans are wont to do; obviously people's opinions on how badly you messed up are going to differ, but you didn't ask how badly you messed up, you asked how to handle the guilt, and said, I don't want to do nice or fun things because what if I forget the guilt and do something reckless again, and hurt others? It feels too risky + morally wrong to stop feeling this way. I don't think denying yourself fun and nice things is going to help. We all need fun and nice things.
Surely the better strategy here is to *practice* doing nice and fun things IN A SAFE WAY.
posted by mskyle at 5:08 AM on June 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
Surely the better strategy here is to *practice* doing nice and fun things IN A SAFE WAY.
posted by mskyle at 5:08 AM on June 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
This is one of the most North American /Calvinistic/Puritan threads I’ve ever read.
Look, all our governments and policy-makers have failed. In a system designed to fail - designed to get you to spend your time and money in businesses that aren’t regulated for ventilation, masks, testing, or screening, to make you feel okay so that you’ll assume government is working and should be allowed to be re-elected (as in Ontario), to feed the capitalist machine despite the costs - you failed. Just like weight loss scams or anything else designed to push responsibility to the lowest person on the totem pole, you failed. It’s ok, you were a single point of failure in a system designed for it.
Also “failed” means…you got sick. You were sick! Maybe not all your neutrons were firing. We’ve all been trained from early days at school trying to achieve perfect attendance to ignore sicknesses because our future bosses won’t like it. You’ve been trained one way for decades to just - do things with a cold. It’s a big turn.
This is in no way saying we shouldn’t all try. We should. But man, cut yourself some slack.
You don’t have to wear a Scarlet A. Just do better in the future. Advocate for good policies when you can.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:16 AM on June 9, 2022 [31 favorites]
Look, all our governments and policy-makers have failed. In a system designed to fail - designed to get you to spend your time and money in businesses that aren’t regulated for ventilation, masks, testing, or screening, to make you feel okay so that you’ll assume government is working and should be allowed to be re-elected (as in Ontario), to feed the capitalist machine despite the costs - you failed. Just like weight loss scams or anything else designed to push responsibility to the lowest person on the totem pole, you failed. It’s ok, you were a single point of failure in a system designed for it.
Also “failed” means…you got sick. You were sick! Maybe not all your neutrons were firing. We’ve all been trained from early days at school trying to achieve perfect attendance to ignore sicknesses because our future bosses won’t like it. You’ve been trained one way for decades to just - do things with a cold. It’s a big turn.
This is in no way saying we shouldn’t all try. We should. But man, cut yourself some slack.
You don’t have to wear a Scarlet A. Just do better in the future. Advocate for good policies when you can.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:16 AM on June 9, 2022 [31 favorites]
This isn't quite the same situation, but I caught covid myself over the last couple of weeks. I took a lot longer to buy into the idea (mediated by the government & policy failures warriorqueen mentions above) that resuming some degree of "normal" pre-pandemic activity was now safe and desirable compared to a lot of people I know, but I did get worn down in the end and made choices (indoor dining & public transport without masks, meeting up with a friend who had cold symptoms but a negative test that morning [who tested positive the following day] mostly outside but also allowing myself to get talked into eating lunch inside with that person) that earlier-pandemic me would never have made, and the outcome was that I got covid.
My initial reaction was that I'd failed to maintain my own high standards and that now I was functionally just as bad as those people, meaning everyone else who'd previously been infected by covid, which I'd managed to avoid until last week. There was a lot of internal judgement in play and I started to feel uncomfortable about the extent to which I'd conflated avoiding a highly contagious respiratory disease with some kind of heightened state of morality. Which is obviously not true, and I've been trying to work on unpicking that response ever since I realised how strong it was.
As far as I know I got lucky and haven't spread it to anyone, although it took 10 days after my known exposure for symptoms to appear and 11 days to test positive, and I saw a friend the following weekend who's still within that time period and may still come down with it (though we might have also caught it from the following weekend's unmasked tram, bus & indoor dining fest; it's impossible to tell). But, like you, I betrayed my own values around covid, which were zero-tolerance until recently. I also either infected my spouse or encouraged him to participate in the environment where we both got infected, and I know he hates getting sick a lot worse than I do; I was dealing with a lot of guilt about that early on when we were both at peak sickness.
I think it would be worth examining where your own moral standards & stance on self-forgiveness stem from. I've had a lot of issues in the past around holding myself to an impossibly high standard of conduct, which I know in my case come from a high-criticism upbringing with parents whose love was conditional and whose standards were impossible to meet. If you find the idea of forgiving yourself difficult, unpleasant or impossible, think about where those messages might have come from in your life. Your professed vigilance around making sure this doesn't happen again also brings to mind scrupulosity OCD, which might be worth looking into further if the idea resonates.
Finally, my sibling (who caught covid in early January) and I both noticed an uptick in depression symptoms during and after our respective infections; if you're being harder on yourself than you usually would about this or you've otherwise noticed mood or behavioural changes while you have covid, this might be another angle to consider and an opportunity to seek out or step up mental health treatment.
posted by terretu at 5:50 AM on June 9, 2022 [7 favorites]
My initial reaction was that I'd failed to maintain my own high standards and that now I was functionally just as bad as those people, meaning everyone else who'd previously been infected by covid, which I'd managed to avoid until last week. There was a lot of internal judgement in play and I started to feel uncomfortable about the extent to which I'd conflated avoiding a highly contagious respiratory disease with some kind of heightened state of morality. Which is obviously not true, and I've been trying to work on unpicking that response ever since I realised how strong it was.
As far as I know I got lucky and haven't spread it to anyone, although it took 10 days after my known exposure for symptoms to appear and 11 days to test positive, and I saw a friend the following weekend who's still within that time period and may still come down with it (though we might have also caught it from the following weekend's unmasked tram, bus & indoor dining fest; it's impossible to tell). But, like you, I betrayed my own values around covid, which were zero-tolerance until recently. I also either infected my spouse or encouraged him to participate in the environment where we both got infected, and I know he hates getting sick a lot worse than I do; I was dealing with a lot of guilt about that early on when we were both at peak sickness.
I think it would be worth examining where your own moral standards & stance on self-forgiveness stem from. I've had a lot of issues in the past around holding myself to an impossibly high standard of conduct, which I know in my case come from a high-criticism upbringing with parents whose love was conditional and whose standards were impossible to meet. If you find the idea of forgiving yourself difficult, unpleasant or impossible, think about where those messages might have come from in your life. Your professed vigilance around making sure this doesn't happen again also brings to mind scrupulosity OCD, which might be worth looking into further if the idea resonates.
Finally, my sibling (who caught covid in early January) and I both noticed an uptick in depression symptoms during and after our respective infections; if you're being harder on yourself than you usually would about this or you've otherwise noticed mood or behavioural changes while you have covid, this might be another angle to consider and an opportunity to seek out or step up mental health treatment.
posted by terretu at 5:50 AM on June 9, 2022 [7 favorites]
The good news is that you're not playing some sort of sadistically designed game in which getting COVID instantly and retroactively wipes out the value of any COVID precautions you took during the previous two years. Those times weren't futile or meaningless. Taking those precautions probably meant that on other occasions, you broke what would have otherwise been a transmission chain, perhaps at a time when we didn't yet have vaccines and other treatments.
The other good news is that you're also not forestalled from acting differently in the future if you want to. Next time you're in a similar situation, you can wear a mask to a big event, or test immediately before attending, or take whatever actions you wish you'd taken this time.
posted by eponym at 6:01 AM on June 9, 2022 [13 favorites]
The other good news is that you're also not forestalled from acting differently in the future if you want to. Next time you're in a similar situation, you can wear a mask to a big event, or test immediately before attending, or take whatever actions you wish you'd taken this time.
posted by eponym at 6:01 AM on June 9, 2022 [13 favorites]
I strongly agree with metahawk that what you need to do is find a concrete way to make amends.
It sometimes helps me to reframe my self flagellation by recognizing that there is a part of me that enjoys beating myself up for my perceived errors; it's a compulsion, like many others, but at its core a self indulgent one. You're not helping anyone by beating yourself up, so get out there (metaphorically) and help someone instead.
posted by telegraph at 6:09 AM on June 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
It sometimes helps me to reframe my self flagellation by recognizing that there is a part of me that enjoys beating myself up for my perceived errors; it's a compulsion, like many others, but at its core a self indulgent one. You're not helping anyone by beating yourself up, so get out there (metaphorically) and help someone instead.
posted by telegraph at 6:09 AM on June 9, 2022 [3 favorites]
Your reaction feels disproportionate to me.
You failed to take a Covid test on the day of the concert. Either because you forgot, or you didn't want to get a positive result. So, don't do that again. I think, commit to organising more 'cheap thrills' and other pleasant things to do so that you have fewer incentives to miss any specific one by testing positive for Covid.
If you feel the need to 'make amends' then donate some money to charity or whatever. You can't undo what has already happened, or change whether someone caught Covid from you at the concert. And you wouldn't be able to do that whether any of this was your fault or not. Your feelings of guilt/shame are mostly unhelpful here, just commit to doing better in future.
posted by plonkee at 6:23 AM on June 9, 2022 [5 favorites]
You failed to take a Covid test on the day of the concert. Either because you forgot, or you didn't want to get a positive result. So, don't do that again. I think, commit to organising more 'cheap thrills' and other pleasant things to do so that you have fewer incentives to miss any specific one by testing positive for Covid.
If you feel the need to 'make amends' then donate some money to charity or whatever. You can't undo what has already happened, or change whether someone caught Covid from you at the concert. And you wouldn't be able to do that whether any of this was your fault or not. Your feelings of guilt/shame are mostly unhelpful here, just commit to doing better in future.
posted by plonkee at 6:23 AM on June 9, 2022 [5 favorites]
I'm gonna pivot off COVID entirely, because this:
But the guilt and shame is eating through me like acid. I don't want to take care of myself. I don't want to do nice or fun things because what if I forget the guilt and do something reckless again, and hurt others? It feels too risky + morally wrong to stop feeling this way.
isn't about COVID at all, this is about unmanaged anxiety. This is about your brain spinning wildly because a thing happened that it couldn't control, and seeking an ironclad control mechanism so that it will never be surprised by anything ever ever ever again. It's also trying to punish you for doing a thing that made anxiety happen. Anxiety Brain thinks that it can stop all of the bad things in the world if it just shreds you to tiny pieces and locks you away in a room forever. None of this is healthy or proportional.
Everyone hurts people. It is an inevitable part of being a human in the world. If you spend your life interacting with people eventually you will hurt some of them. You need to be able to cope proportionally with that knowledge, so that you can exert a reasonable level of care while still existing healthily. (For what it's worth, I recognized your username from your last question, which I believe was also about uncontrollable anxiety when a friend didn't call you back for a bit?)
I realize you have a therapist, but you don't mention any other treatments. It really might be time to consider adding something to your anxiety arsenal. You don't have to live in a sense of perpetual torment.
Good luck to you, friend.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 6:47 AM on June 9, 2022 [16 favorites]
But the guilt and shame is eating through me like acid. I don't want to take care of myself. I don't want to do nice or fun things because what if I forget the guilt and do something reckless again, and hurt others? It feels too risky + morally wrong to stop feeling this way.
isn't about COVID at all, this is about unmanaged anxiety. This is about your brain spinning wildly because a thing happened that it couldn't control, and seeking an ironclad control mechanism so that it will never be surprised by anything ever ever ever again. It's also trying to punish you for doing a thing that made anxiety happen. Anxiety Brain thinks that it can stop all of the bad things in the world if it just shreds you to tiny pieces and locks you away in a room forever. None of this is healthy or proportional.
Everyone hurts people. It is an inevitable part of being a human in the world. If you spend your life interacting with people eventually you will hurt some of them. You need to be able to cope proportionally with that knowledge, so that you can exert a reasonable level of care while still existing healthily. (For what it's worth, I recognized your username from your last question, which I believe was also about uncontrollable anxiety when a friend didn't call you back for a bit?)
I realize you have a therapist, but you don't mention any other treatments. It really might be time to consider adding something to your anxiety arsenal. You don't have to live in a sense of perpetual torment.
Good luck to you, friend.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 6:47 AM on June 9, 2022 [16 favorites]
You've come to a place on the internet where people still see getting COVID as a sign of some kind of moral failing, but you didn't do anything wrong other than try to do more than bare-level exist in a world where COVID is still circulating. Don't take this as some kind of sign that it is ever wrong to try to enjoy yourself in this veil of tears we call life, just take a test before you go to another big event.
posted by cakelite at 8:13 AM on June 9, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by cakelite at 8:13 AM on June 9, 2022 [6 favorites]
It's not the catching Covid that people are reacting to, it's the spreading of it.
posted by bleep at 8:21 AM on June 9, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by bleep at 8:21 AM on June 9, 2022 [6 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you so much for your insightful answers, everyone, it’s seriously appreciated. I can’t really mark best answer because each one gave me something to reflect on. In the end, I decided to set up a recurring monthly donation to a local COVID-focused charity, and to be more diligent with testing and masking from here on out (while still trying to get my social and emotional needs met in safer, less reckless ways.) I still feel like a lot of my guilt is legitimate, but I am also aware that it is being amplified to an unproductive degree because of my mental health issues, which is something I'm going to work on.
I'm also doing my best to be a little more self-compassionate—if a friend told me they'd lapsed with covid safety but want to do better now, I'd have zero problems with them. Hell, even if they were still struggling with this whole confusing nightmare of a pandemic and its relentless systemic failures to protect others—and were making different decisions than I would—I'd be way more compassionate than I'm being towards myself right now. Accountable, worried, yeah, but compassionate. I wouldn't dehumanize them or believe that they deserved to suffer in an internal emotional hell forever. Maybe that viewpoint isn't the greatest, I don't know, but it's the one that's consistent with my values right now.
So... I don't know. It's a mess and I wish I could change a lot of my decisions within the pandemic, even beyond the shitty decision I made at the concert (like those two weeks where I went, maskless, to a few bars and restaurants with my friends after masks were lifted post-vaccine and I thought we couldn't spread COVID, then I thought better about it + the science updated, and immediately stopped.) But I can't change the past, and I'm doing what I can here and now to make better, safer choices while also doing whatever I can politically. That's all I can think to do while systems fail around all of us.
Any additional thoughts are of course welcome, but yeah, I just wanted to update my thoughts and say thank you. Wishing everyone the best.
posted by Anonymous at 10:54 AM on June 9, 2022
I'm also doing my best to be a little more self-compassionate—if a friend told me they'd lapsed with covid safety but want to do better now, I'd have zero problems with them. Hell, even if they were still struggling with this whole confusing nightmare of a pandemic and its relentless systemic failures to protect others—and were making different decisions than I would—I'd be way more compassionate than I'm being towards myself right now. Accountable, worried, yeah, but compassionate. I wouldn't dehumanize them or believe that they deserved to suffer in an internal emotional hell forever. Maybe that viewpoint isn't the greatest, I don't know, but it's the one that's consistent with my values right now.
So... I don't know. It's a mess and I wish I could change a lot of my decisions within the pandemic, even beyond the shitty decision I made at the concert (like those two weeks where I went, maskless, to a few bars and restaurants with my friends after masks were lifted post-vaccine and I thought we couldn't spread COVID, then I thought better about it + the science updated, and immediately stopped.) But I can't change the past, and I'm doing what I can here and now to make better, safer choices while also doing whatever I can politically. That's all I can think to do while systems fail around all of us.
Any additional thoughts are of course welcome, but yeah, I just wanted to update my thoughts and say thank you. Wishing everyone the best.
posted by Anonymous at 10:54 AM on June 9, 2022
That sounds like a comprehensive, conscientious, and compassionate plan for moving forward.
posted by eviemath at 11:33 AM on June 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by eviemath at 11:33 AM on June 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
adjusting your habits to be better ones is easier and more productive than obsessing on one specific instance, now in the past, when you followed habits that were not good. if you construct your habits with ethics in mind, you will live better and more happily by following those automatic habits than by wrestling with conscious ethical dilemmas every day. there's no need for ethical wrestling and it's not efficient.
so, if you feel sick and you aren't 100 percent sure that it's something else based on exact recognition of specific familiar symptoms and having a very specific idea of what brought them on, you assume it's covid. you certainly do not use a negative test as an excuse to believe you must not have it, unless you also have a positive test for something completely different. until it goes away, you stay home if you can. if you can't stay home, you wear a good quality fitting mask around other people. it's absolute and it's very easy and everyone should do it. habitually, not as a complex decision opportunity. you don't need to amp up your testing frequency if your symptoms don't feel too bad; what's the point of that? everybody knows by now that you have to assume a positive home test is accurate but a negative home test proves nothing.
there's nothing to be done with the guilt you feel because it doesn't matter. you went to a big event while having mystery respiratory symptoms while covid is everywhere. now you're all right. the end. just don't do it again.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:52 PM on June 9, 2022
so, if you feel sick and you aren't 100 percent sure that it's something else based on exact recognition of specific familiar symptoms and having a very specific idea of what brought them on, you assume it's covid. you certainly do not use a negative test as an excuse to believe you must not have it, unless you also have a positive test for something completely different. until it goes away, you stay home if you can. if you can't stay home, you wear a good quality fitting mask around other people. it's absolute and it's very easy and everyone should do it. habitually, not as a complex decision opportunity. you don't need to amp up your testing frequency if your symptoms don't feel too bad; what's the point of that? everybody knows by now that you have to assume a positive home test is accurate but a negative home test proves nothing.
there's nothing to be done with the guilt you feel because it doesn't matter. you went to a big event while having mystery respiratory symptoms while covid is everywhere. now you're all right. the end. just don't do it again.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:52 PM on June 9, 2022
Honestly, Metafilter is maybe not the best place to ask this question. People here are way more Covid concerned than the general population. I assure you this is a complete non-issue to most people. And yes, I do know high risk people who are still Covid-cautious, but they’re just not going to 100-person indoor concerts.
posted by vanitas at 9:08 PM on June 9, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by vanitas at 9:08 PM on June 9, 2022 [6 favorites]
And yes, I do know high risk people who are still Covid-cautious, but they’re just not going to 100-person indoor concerts.
... so I might be reading into the askers post and attributing opinions to them, but those people at the concert have parents, children, colleagues and friends, many of whom don't have the choice to avoid close contact, and might be immunocompromised or otherwise vulnerable. Never mind long Covid.
This is still a deadly disease for many. We still know very little about it. The fact that most people are willing to just go "welp, I've done my bit and now I'm tired of all that" doesn't affect the morality of that choice for each of us as individuals.
We all get to choose what level of risk we're comfortable with, but that choice still has consequences for other people.
posted by Zumbador at 9:24 PM on June 9, 2022 [7 favorites]
... so I might be reading into the askers post and attributing opinions to them, but those people at the concert have parents, children, colleagues and friends, many of whom don't have the choice to avoid close contact, and might be immunocompromised or otherwise vulnerable. Never mind long Covid.
This is still a deadly disease for many. We still know very little about it. The fact that most people are willing to just go "welp, I've done my bit and now I'm tired of all that" doesn't affect the morality of that choice for each of us as individuals.
We all get to choose what level of risk we're comfortable with, but that choice still has consequences for other people.
posted by Zumbador at 9:24 PM on June 9, 2022 [7 favorites]
People here are way more Covid concerned than the general population.
Most people value having functional organs too. This is a dangerous disease that damages your organs beyond repair. I'm not saying that "because I'm on Metafilter" I'm saying it because it's the truth.
posted by bleep at 9:38 AM on June 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
Most people value having functional organs too. This is a dangerous disease that damages your organs beyond repair. I'm not saying that "because I'm on Metafilter" I'm saying it because it's the truth.
posted by bleep at 9:38 AM on June 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
I don’t think the issue is whether you behaved objectively wrong (if there even were such a thing) or what other people (including us mefites) think of you; the issue is that under your own personal moral code, you screwed up. The solution is to reflect on that and make sure that going forward you behave, to the best of your ability, in a way that lets you live with yourself. A difficult thing about COVID is it’s exposed the fact that everyone’s risk thresholds vary enormously and there’s no right answer to everything and not a ton of useful guidance. For what it’s worth, I can tell you my solution is going to things like concerts but wearing a mask. Do I feel like a sucker when no one else is? Hell yeah. Am I a reprobate to some people I know for going to a concert at all? For sure. But I have decided that this is the compromise I can live with and that’s helped me make peace with it.
posted by Argyle Road at 10:14 AM on June 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Argyle Road at 10:14 AM on June 10, 2022 [3 favorites]
A concept that might be helpful for you to explore is moral injury. Quoting that page I linked, moral injury "is the damage done to one’s conscience or moral compass when that person perpetrates, witnesses, or fails to prevent acts that transgress one’s own moral beliefs, values, or ethical codes of conduct."
I heard of another example of this last year when, early after vaccines were available, a friend signed up for an appointment thinking they were eligible but then found out they were not and had to decide if they should still get the appointment. There was a unvaccinated family member they wanted to be around (someone not yet eligible) and they were terrified of getting and giving Covid. They were in agony trying to reconcile these seemingly competing needs -- a desire to follow the rules and not jump the line early on when vaccines weren't widely available with a need to spend time with this family member. They found it comforting to learn about the concept of moral injury.
The reason I'm sharing this is because I do think it's helpful to acknowledge your attendance at this event as part of meeting some needs for socialization, entertainment, leisure, etc. I said that in my earlier comment but didn't think of this particular term.
posted by bluedaisy at 11:00 AM on June 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
I heard of another example of this last year when, early after vaccines were available, a friend signed up for an appointment thinking they were eligible but then found out they were not and had to decide if they should still get the appointment. There was a unvaccinated family member they wanted to be around (someone not yet eligible) and they were terrified of getting and giving Covid. They were in agony trying to reconcile these seemingly competing needs -- a desire to follow the rules and not jump the line early on when vaccines weren't widely available with a need to spend time with this family member. They found it comforting to learn about the concept of moral injury.
The reason I'm sharing this is because I do think it's helpful to acknowledge your attendance at this event as part of meeting some needs for socialization, entertainment, leisure, etc. I said that in my earlier comment but didn't think of this particular term.
posted by bluedaisy at 11:00 AM on June 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
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posted by 10ch at 3:56 PM on June 8, 2022 [35 favorites]