Is the guy I'm dating a bit pervy?
April 29, 2022 9:06 AM Subscribe
I have a history of being sexually abused as a child, so I'm particularly sensitive to any hint of it. Would appreciate some objective views on whether these behaviour seem a bit off. I'm f, 37 and he's m, 37.
As background, I should say that the abuse wasn't extensive, and I have a healthy and entirely normal sex life now (although definitely on the higher sex drive end). A lot of boyfriends have found me particularly sexually adventurous / orgasmic, and I do really enjoy... um...being generally quite filthy on occasion! (nothing particularly kinky, just focused on sex and pleasure). So these fears are kind of at odds with this, because I perhaps make a very sexual atmosphere sometimes and then when I get what I've asked for back, start to feel like it's gone a bit too far?
I do wonder whether the abuse created a lifelong habit of not acting on my instincts / overriding uncomfortable feelings though, hence this question, and also a suspicion of men. And I find as I get older (I'm female, late 30s), I seem to get more and more sensitive/grossed out by the idea of men finding young women attractive and like it's perverted / wrong, partly out of a sense of threat (if I'm honest, I used to be that younger attractive lady and now that is fading) and also because big age gaps just make me feel very uncomfortable, for obvious reasons.
I also have a slightly conflicted relationship with porn. I enjoy using it occasionally but I hate how much of it is based on people who look younger than 18, dodgy situations like incest and also violence (I don't watch this). I can't even believe that's allowed, and think it feeds a lot of toxic shit in our culture. I find men who watch porn both relatable but also kind of threatening, because I worry they are secretly (or not, even!) looking at young girls.
And about this man - he's the most emotionally mature, kind man I have met in a long time. He seems very ready for a serious long term relationship (and has said he is), is keen to settle down and seems to be very into me. It's early days, but there are lots and lots of good signs - and I've been around the block enough to know this by now! He has a normal dating history - his last long term relationship was for four years with a woman his age, and he seems to date and be attracted to women our age, but also older (40) and in one case, 9 years younger (26 when he was 35).
We have a lovely, and very sexual relationship (we match eachother in terms of sex drives). Most of the time this is very fun and sometimes things make me feel a bit icky and worried.
Anyway, the big thing that happened today is - we had phone sex and after we both finished, as it were, he asked me how old I was when I had my first orgasm. I said 11 or 12, and he replied with a kind of 'mmm' which sounded turned on? It could have just been an instinctive reaction to the idea of me having an orgasm, but still. I was really young. We then kind of just continued the conversation as normal.
Also, the first day we went to my house, which is door number 22, he said 'that's a good age'. Again, I didn't say anything just kind of continued and then felt uncomfy, and the next day asked 'good age for what?' and he kind of fumbled about and said 'stuff like travelling'.
He loves talking dirty, which is fine, but will use a lot of porny terms (I won't repeat them here) which make me feel he watches a lot. He has also used terms such as 'milf'. He's sent me a couple of porn videos which have been not dodgy at all, thankfully, and that's been fun, but I worry he's censoring himself if he watches it often as people tend to look for harder stuff. He also seems to suffer from 'death grip' (although he says he has a desensitised penis from circumcision), and he needs a lot of mental stimulation (stories etc) to get off sometimes (sometimes not though).
These have included everything from outside sex to a nurse scenario to me being a teacher and him a student (18 apparently) and also the other way around, where he's my teacher. And while we were having sex and I was the student, he used the word 'young' in his dirty talk. He also mentioned a friend had gone to a life modelling class where the model had a gorgeous body 'you know, young girl' which made me feel uncomfortable.
He seems to like anything forbidden - ie talking about ejaculating in me every day, even at risky times of the month (I'm not on birth control as i cant take it though we do use condoms).
He also will occasionally bring in quite extreme and inappropriate sexual comments to text conversations which feel badly timed and, basically crass. He also remarked 'nice tits' about someone on TV. It's so strange as he isn't like this in real life at all. He does work in a very working class profession (in London) where I suspect this kind of chat happens a lot, and perhaps leaks out sometimes?
On the other hand, we've spoken about the fact that men start filtering out women of a certain age (I mentioned this as we were talking about men being filtered for height), and he said that some of his friends say they would never go for a woman over 30 (!) but that's not how he feels. He said that he sees women under 25 as babies, with a totally different mindset, and he wants a woman. He has also said he finds women in their 30s the sexiest, and he often says how much he loves my 'womanly body', my 'curves' (I'm a size UK 10 with big boobs), and during sex he has called me 'a real woman'...once, in the scenario where he was the student, he said 'I don't want those girls, I want a real woman'. This makes me feel I'm constantly being compared to girls? I told him that I had no interest in going to the gym to try and keep up with 25 year olds, and he said I didn't need to because my body is perfect. But I worry that this is all a case of the man who doth protest too much. Why does he need to reassure me so much?
He can also be very intimate and loving - often refers to 'making love' with me, loves to look into my eyes, loves to make me feel good etc. I get the sense he's actually pretty nervous about sex but that as intimacy builds he enjoys it more (he's generally a fan of closeness and not of one night stands etc).
There's also been a couple of times that peodophiles have come up (talking about the Jimmy Saville documentary for instance) and he's expressed extreme discomfort with the idea of peodophilia. But again, I worry he's saying this to cover something up.
Now I've written this all down it all reads as perhaps me being on high alert, and looking for issues, but would appreciate your views.
As background, I should say that the abuse wasn't extensive, and I have a healthy and entirely normal sex life now (although definitely on the higher sex drive end). A lot of boyfriends have found me particularly sexually adventurous / orgasmic, and I do really enjoy... um...being generally quite filthy on occasion! (nothing particularly kinky, just focused on sex and pleasure). So these fears are kind of at odds with this, because I perhaps make a very sexual atmosphere sometimes and then when I get what I've asked for back, start to feel like it's gone a bit too far?
I do wonder whether the abuse created a lifelong habit of not acting on my instincts / overriding uncomfortable feelings though, hence this question, and also a suspicion of men. And I find as I get older (I'm female, late 30s), I seem to get more and more sensitive/grossed out by the idea of men finding young women attractive and like it's perverted / wrong, partly out of a sense of threat (if I'm honest, I used to be that younger attractive lady and now that is fading) and also because big age gaps just make me feel very uncomfortable, for obvious reasons.
I also have a slightly conflicted relationship with porn. I enjoy using it occasionally but I hate how much of it is based on people who look younger than 18, dodgy situations like incest and also violence (I don't watch this). I can't even believe that's allowed, and think it feeds a lot of toxic shit in our culture. I find men who watch porn both relatable but also kind of threatening, because I worry they are secretly (or not, even!) looking at young girls.
And about this man - he's the most emotionally mature, kind man I have met in a long time. He seems very ready for a serious long term relationship (and has said he is), is keen to settle down and seems to be very into me. It's early days, but there are lots and lots of good signs - and I've been around the block enough to know this by now! He has a normal dating history - his last long term relationship was for four years with a woman his age, and he seems to date and be attracted to women our age, but also older (40) and in one case, 9 years younger (26 when he was 35).
We have a lovely, and very sexual relationship (we match eachother in terms of sex drives). Most of the time this is very fun and sometimes things make me feel a bit icky and worried.
Anyway, the big thing that happened today is - we had phone sex and after we both finished, as it were, he asked me how old I was when I had my first orgasm. I said 11 or 12, and he replied with a kind of 'mmm' which sounded turned on? It could have just been an instinctive reaction to the idea of me having an orgasm, but still. I was really young. We then kind of just continued the conversation as normal.
Also, the first day we went to my house, which is door number 22, he said 'that's a good age'. Again, I didn't say anything just kind of continued and then felt uncomfy, and the next day asked 'good age for what?' and he kind of fumbled about and said 'stuff like travelling'.
He loves talking dirty, which is fine, but will use a lot of porny terms (I won't repeat them here) which make me feel he watches a lot. He has also used terms such as 'milf'. He's sent me a couple of porn videos which have been not dodgy at all, thankfully, and that's been fun, but I worry he's censoring himself if he watches it often as people tend to look for harder stuff. He also seems to suffer from 'death grip' (although he says he has a desensitised penis from circumcision), and he needs a lot of mental stimulation (stories etc) to get off sometimes (sometimes not though).
These have included everything from outside sex to a nurse scenario to me being a teacher and him a student (18 apparently) and also the other way around, where he's my teacher. And while we were having sex and I was the student, he used the word 'young' in his dirty talk. He also mentioned a friend had gone to a life modelling class where the model had a gorgeous body 'you know, young girl' which made me feel uncomfortable.
He seems to like anything forbidden - ie talking about ejaculating in me every day, even at risky times of the month (I'm not on birth control as i cant take it though we do use condoms).
He also will occasionally bring in quite extreme and inappropriate sexual comments to text conversations which feel badly timed and, basically crass. He also remarked 'nice tits' about someone on TV. It's so strange as he isn't like this in real life at all. He does work in a very working class profession (in London) where I suspect this kind of chat happens a lot, and perhaps leaks out sometimes?
On the other hand, we've spoken about the fact that men start filtering out women of a certain age (I mentioned this as we were talking about men being filtered for height), and he said that some of his friends say they would never go for a woman over 30 (!) but that's not how he feels. He said that he sees women under 25 as babies, with a totally different mindset, and he wants a woman. He has also said he finds women in their 30s the sexiest, and he often says how much he loves my 'womanly body', my 'curves' (I'm a size UK 10 with big boobs), and during sex he has called me 'a real woman'...once, in the scenario where he was the student, he said 'I don't want those girls, I want a real woman'. This makes me feel I'm constantly being compared to girls? I told him that I had no interest in going to the gym to try and keep up with 25 year olds, and he said I didn't need to because my body is perfect. But I worry that this is all a case of the man who doth protest too much. Why does he need to reassure me so much?
He can also be very intimate and loving - often refers to 'making love' with me, loves to look into my eyes, loves to make me feel good etc. I get the sense he's actually pretty nervous about sex but that as intimacy builds he enjoys it more (he's generally a fan of closeness and not of one night stands etc).
There's also been a couple of times that peodophiles have come up (talking about the Jimmy Saville documentary for instance) and he's expressed extreme discomfort with the idea of peodophilia. But again, I worry he's saying this to cover something up.
Now I've written this all down it all reads as perhaps me being on high alert, and looking for issues, but would appreciate your views.
FWIW I'm a man. Couple of points that struck me: He said he is interested in long term. He says your body is "perfect." Well, as an older person I can assure you that no one's body stays "perfect." Will he still love you, "When you're 64?"
P.S. I don't like this guy.
posted by charlesminus at 9:28 AM on April 29, 2022 [15 favorites]
P.S. I don't like this guy.
posted by charlesminus at 9:28 AM on April 29, 2022 [15 favorites]
Response by poster: Just to add for the most recent poster, he doesn't just say my body is perfect...he says I'm perfect in general too, so I think it's just a word he uses a lot? But I do appreciate your sentiment and I'm sure it's not just based on that word!
posted by burnttoast at 9:30 AM on April 29, 2022
posted by burnttoast at 9:30 AM on April 29, 2022
You sound very insecure about getting older and having to “compete” with younger women in the dating world, so it’s not surprising to me that he reassures you a lot. But at the end of the day, if something about him and the sex/sexy talk you’re having is setting off alarm bells for you, it’s ok to end the relationship. You don’t have to have perfectly articulated or logical reasons for why sex with a particular person makes you feel weird. It’s just how it goes sometimes.
posted by cakelite at 9:35 AM on April 29, 2022 [12 favorites]
posted by cakelite at 9:35 AM on April 29, 2022 [12 favorites]
If it's early days, maybe you don't feel comfortable sharing your personal history and that's fine. But have you had some boundary conversations?
I would think you could, without making it about things that have happened to you, say "age talk is a hard no for me" or "I'm uncomfortable with roleplay about age gaps, let's not do that" or "when we were in the middle of things [last night, or last week, whenever] I didn't want to stop, but this thing you said took me out of the moment. Could you not dirty talk along those lines in future?"
Then if he pushes it again, you can stop and remind him that it doesn't work for you. It sounds like you are a confident person in general and in your sexuality, so hopefully this feels possible. If not, pay attention to why not?
posted by Lawn Beaver at 9:36 AM on April 29, 2022 [36 favorites]
I would think you could, without making it about things that have happened to you, say "age talk is a hard no for me" or "I'm uncomfortable with roleplay about age gaps, let's not do that" or "when we were in the middle of things [last night, or last week, whenever] I didn't want to stop, but this thing you said took me out of the moment. Could you not dirty talk along those lines in future?"
Then if he pushes it again, you can stop and remind him that it doesn't work for you. It sounds like you are a confident person in general and in your sexuality, so hopefully this feels possible. If not, pay attention to why not?
posted by Lawn Beaver at 9:36 AM on April 29, 2022 [36 favorites]
What strikes me reading this is that you don't really seem comfortable with acting out all of his sex fantasies. Question--is he accepting of your fantasies? Or if you don't act his out? This seems like a case of "all or nothing" that's imposed upon women--either you're good and pure/a total prude or a bad slut/a sexually enlightened goddess! But it's ok to have some boundaries, having a sex drive doesn't mean you are "getting what you deserve" if you're uncomfortable.
Would he be OK if you talked to him about your wants and needs? That you don't find certain types of porn appealing? Or would he laugh them off? I think that might be the underlying issue here--you're uncertain about your safety as a person and that's dragging up memories of being unsafe as a child.
posted by kingdead at 9:37 AM on April 29, 2022 [8 favorites]
Would he be OK if you talked to him about your wants and needs? That you don't find certain types of porn appealing? Or would he laugh them off? I think that might be the underlying issue here--you're uncertain about your safety as a person and that's dragging up memories of being unsafe as a child.
posted by kingdead at 9:37 AM on April 29, 2022 [8 favorites]
This is so culturally and situationally dependent, nobody is going to be able to show up here on the green and give you a definitive answer. I think the real test is how he responds and follows through when you bring this up as being a problem for you.
Like, I think there are a significant amount of assumptions in your question about the perceived morality of a variety of sexually related activities that I disagree with. I respect you having those opinions though and understand that different people with different experiences can hold conflicting opinions and it doesn’t have to affect our being kind to one another. You can have fantasies that aren’t at all desirable to do in real life, after all. People, and their sexuality, are wonderfully complex.
But what isn’t all that complex is how one partner treats the other when they express vulnerability and discomfort. If you tell him, in a moment that isn’t sexually charged, that it makes you really uncomfortable when he makes references to wanting sex with much younger people, how does he respond? If you told him you had a hard limit of no age play when you roleplay, that any characters you act out need to be approximately your real ages, will he respect that? It is absolutely okay to have these kinds of boundaries and limits.
If he shrugs it off and tries crossing those limits later, or starts treating you differently for having been vulnerable with him, that’s a huge red flag. If he makes a big deal of apologizing to you and needing a bunch of reassurances that you still want to date him, that’s also concerning. Adults should be able to have conversations about this, come to compromises, like each other despite having different preferences and needs. Like, if he thinks you are “perfect”, but then you ask him to cut out the younger women stuff around you, do you stop being perfect? But if he takes what you say and then acts accordingly afterward, maybe even thanks you for being open with him about this, that’s a great sign. Together you can establish a method of communication and compromise in the relationship so that difficult and complex things can be worked on together, and bodes well for the future of you two together.
posted by Mizu at 9:42 AM on April 29, 2022 [29 favorites]
Like, I think there are a significant amount of assumptions in your question about the perceived morality of a variety of sexually related activities that I disagree with. I respect you having those opinions though and understand that different people with different experiences can hold conflicting opinions and it doesn’t have to affect our being kind to one another. You can have fantasies that aren’t at all desirable to do in real life, after all. People, and their sexuality, are wonderfully complex.
But what isn’t all that complex is how one partner treats the other when they express vulnerability and discomfort. If you tell him, in a moment that isn’t sexually charged, that it makes you really uncomfortable when he makes references to wanting sex with much younger people, how does he respond? If you told him you had a hard limit of no age play when you roleplay, that any characters you act out need to be approximately your real ages, will he respect that? It is absolutely okay to have these kinds of boundaries and limits.
If he shrugs it off and tries crossing those limits later, or starts treating you differently for having been vulnerable with him, that’s a huge red flag. If he makes a big deal of apologizing to you and needing a bunch of reassurances that you still want to date him, that’s also concerning. Adults should be able to have conversations about this, come to compromises, like each other despite having different preferences and needs. Like, if he thinks you are “perfect”, but then you ask him to cut out the younger women stuff around you, do you stop being perfect? But if he takes what you say and then acts accordingly afterward, maybe even thanks you for being open with him about this, that’s a great sign. Together you can establish a method of communication and compromise in the relationship so that difficult and complex things can be worked on together, and bodes well for the future of you two together.
posted by Mizu at 9:42 AM on April 29, 2022 [29 favorites]
I hear a lot of red flags on your end and I think you should take them seriously.
Sex and safety are both complex, nuanced, nonverbal things and it’s very hard to translate and encapsulate them into words. You are feeling red flags about this guy and trying to relate them to us in words.... but they’re not actually about the words he’s saying - they’re about something nonverbal that is happening in the subtext of all those conversations.
In every conversation, there’s a rich second conversation happening simultaneously, made of glances, pauses, breathing changes, posture, mood shifts, timing, context, human connection / attunement - or lack thereof.... and that conversation never lies. That’s what I think you’re reacting to.
Anytime I have an uncertain feeling about someone, I have learned to trust my instincts. My brain might not find the right words or reasons to explain everything, but my gut always tells me what’s true and when to worry. When you’re feeling that un-ease? Listen to it.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 9:44 AM on April 29, 2022 [37 favorites]
Sex and safety are both complex, nuanced, nonverbal things and it’s very hard to translate and encapsulate them into words. You are feeling red flags about this guy and trying to relate them to us in words.... but they’re not actually about the words he’s saying - they’re about something nonverbal that is happening in the subtext of all those conversations.
In every conversation, there’s a rich second conversation happening simultaneously, made of glances, pauses, breathing changes, posture, mood shifts, timing, context, human connection / attunement - or lack thereof.... and that conversation never lies. That’s what I think you’re reacting to.
Anytime I have an uncertain feeling about someone, I have learned to trust my instincts. My brain might not find the right words or reasons to explain everything, but my gut always tells me what’s true and when to worry. When you’re feeling that un-ease? Listen to it.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 9:44 AM on April 29, 2022 [37 favorites]
I'm conflicted on this. On one hand, his behavior and comments do show a lack of discretion. But on the other hand, sex does seem to be a large part of your relationship. So what else can you expect from the partner you've chosen? Okay, that being said, I suggest that you communicate with your guy. If you are going to be together long-term, you will need to learn to talk to each other about anything and everything. The sooner that you find out if you are incompatible with this man, the better.
posted by Stuka at 9:46 AM on April 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Stuka at 9:46 AM on April 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
He doesn‘t sound pervy (?) to me but your communication sounds off. If the young woman stuff creeps you out, tell him young woman stuff creeps you out so he can adjust accordingly. In my experience we all have stuff that, laid out in the open, would make even a well matched open-minded intimate partner uncomfortable. Yup we‘re all pervs. Make clear where your boundaries are and it‘s fine for him and you to keep stuff hidden, as it were.
Now how he acts in real life, that‘s a different question, but nothing in your description sounds off to me.
(If he *still* creeps you out, all of these things considered, that‘s a big red flag, and it will probably become clear why that is pretty soon — keep listening to those feelings.)
posted by The Toad at 9:53 AM on April 29, 2022 [6 favorites]
Now how he acts in real life, that‘s a different question, but nothing in your description sounds off to me.
(If he *still* creeps you out, all of these things considered, that‘s a big red flag, and it will probably become clear why that is pretty soon — keep listening to those feelings.)
posted by The Toad at 9:53 AM on April 29, 2022 [6 favorites]
Response by poster: To those that have asked if I can share my own fantasies, yes I do, and tbh I enjoy his. I expressed dislike for one and we didn't continue, and I know he would listen if I said no to an age related one. I guess I'm conflicted because I also find the scenario fun? But I just don't want it to mean he actually wants to do this, if it makes sense. He said it's about power dynamics, which I totally get.
So I'm not sure I want to express that boundary, but I just want to know none of this is big red flag for a paedo / someone who won't be able to accept me ageing?
I did express a boundary around something that I am sensitive about (it was non sexual), and he handled it really well - said that if it upset me, he would stop doing it no questions asked and he was very sorry for upsetting me (even though it was a misinterpretation on my behalf of something he said).
And yes, this does all sound very sexual! But it's just lots of stuff collected in one place - 95% of our conversation is not sexual (apart from during sex) and we do lots of things like hiking, cooking together, generally coupley things. so it's not everything, but we're a couple of months in so quite sexually charged at points!
posted by burnttoast at 9:56 AM on April 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
So I'm not sure I want to express that boundary, but I just want to know none of this is big red flag for a paedo / someone who won't be able to accept me ageing?
I did express a boundary around something that I am sensitive about (it was non sexual), and he handled it really well - said that if it upset me, he would stop doing it no questions asked and he was very sorry for upsetting me (even though it was a misinterpretation on my behalf of something he said).
And yes, this does all sound very sexual! But it's just lots of stuff collected in one place - 95% of our conversation is not sexual (apart from during sex) and we do lots of things like hiking, cooking together, generally coupley things. so it's not everything, but we're a couple of months in so quite sexually charged at points!
posted by burnttoast at 9:56 AM on April 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
He sounds delightful and a great match. I don't think him mentioning "young" or dating a younger women once is anything specifically weird. More like, since you are particularly sensitive to that topic, they feel "louder" than using "MILF". If you were particularly sensitive about being older, him using "MILF" would have been just as red-flag-feeling. Or, if you were sensitive about your weight, him talking about your curves could be a red flag.
He sounds like he would respond well to a conversation on this topic. I would find a serious moment, and when you are ready, be vulnerable. Tell him that you feel very happy, but you are extra aware about sexualizing minors/people younger than you. You think doctor-patient or doctor-nurse rollplay could be hot, but when age dynamics get involved, it's all you can think about.
I'm POSITIVE that he will say "oh my god, I'm so sorry, I didn't know, I'll avoid that topic with a 10' pole from now on."
Because... from the way you described him, he seems perfect, and you don't mention having mentioned this topic to him before. And it doesn't sound like it would be a dealbreaker - it's not like all of your sex is focused on this one aspect.
posted by bbqturtle at 10:07 AM on April 29, 2022 [7 favorites]
He sounds like he would respond well to a conversation on this topic. I would find a serious moment, and when you are ready, be vulnerable. Tell him that you feel very happy, but you are extra aware about sexualizing minors/people younger than you. You think doctor-patient or doctor-nurse rollplay could be hot, but when age dynamics get involved, it's all you can think about.
I'm POSITIVE that he will say "oh my god, I'm so sorry, I didn't know, I'll avoid that topic with a 10' pole from now on."
Because... from the way you described him, he seems perfect, and you don't mention having mentioned this topic to him before. And it doesn't sound like it would be a dealbreaker - it's not like all of your sex is focused on this one aspect.
posted by bbqturtle at 10:07 AM on April 29, 2022 [7 favorites]
He also remarked 'nice tits' about someone on TV
Ugh, not so delightful.
posted by MelissaSimon at 10:18 AM on April 29, 2022 [14 favorites]
Ugh, not so delightful.
posted by MelissaSimon at 10:18 AM on April 29, 2022 [14 favorites]
Tbh, his language icked me out and I said “ew” out loud a few times. That all sounds like very immature language, especially for this age range. I would be grossed out by role play involving such a power dynamic, let alone the barely legal age limit added to make it seem okay. I would be grossed out asking about my childhood sexual explorations during an obviously sexually charged experience. And I’m just generally grossed out about the way he seems to view women as sexual object first.
The fact is, you’re uncomfortable. I totally understand wanting a gut check, but if everyone in the world said “it’s fine” would that honestly make you comfortable? You have to be comfortable on your own.
Do you honestly want to be with someone who “chats” like that with his buddies and it “leaks out”? So what you mean is, he’s pretending to not feel that way only in front of you? No thanks.
Fwiw, my spouse has never done any of these things or made me ever feel uncomfortable sexually.
posted by Crystalinne at 10:27 AM on April 29, 2022 [16 favorites]
The fact is, you’re uncomfortable. I totally understand wanting a gut check, but if everyone in the world said “it’s fine” would that honestly make you comfortable? You have to be comfortable on your own.
Do you honestly want to be with someone who “chats” like that with his buddies and it “leaks out”? So what you mean is, he’s pretending to not feel that way only in front of you? No thanks.
Fwiw, my spouse has never done any of these things or made me ever feel uncomfortable sexually.
posted by Crystalinne at 10:27 AM on April 29, 2022 [16 favorites]
It seems to me that it might be helpful for you to work on resolving some of the trauma you experienced around the childhood sexual abuse you experienced, bc it does seem to have really informed how you've approached sexuality and intimacy into your adulthood (which is totally normal). But it seems like a part of you wants to move on and step into your present day role as a 37 y.o. woman, and that maybe you have some unresolved feelings around how previous you (at any age) acted regarding sexual encounters and identified -- again, totally normal. What's drawing you to this man is that you do like hearing that he wants something long term, does find having sex with you fun, does like this current version of your body. But what's turning you off is the ambiguity that he's expressed around younger women and I'd say even just women in general, in terms of boundaries. Like he was 35 and dated a 26 year old - which was just 2 years ago for him - and yet felt like anyone even one year younger than that person is still a "baby." He makes some gray area comments about women's bodies of all ages. He uses language that categorizes women into specific groups by their age ('milf'). Those are some blurry boundaries and I think that this is specifically what you're responding to. I'd say that we (you) may never know if he's an actual pedophile or whatever, but it seems like there's enough ambiguity about how he AND you feel about women's sexuality (how he views women, how you view yourself) that it warrants a much deeper look (into yourself) and bigger conversation (between the two of you) before this snowballs further for you. Good job noting your discomfort and asking for help. I'm a fellow CSA survivor and this is hard stuff to grapple with. Maybe you can find a trauma and/or sex therapist to help untangle this with you.
posted by erattacorrige at 10:32 AM on April 29, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by erattacorrige at 10:32 AM on April 29, 2022 [5 favorites]
To me (and I can only speak for me) He sounds like a well intentioned dude who has been mislead by and addicted to the porn industry. If what he is saying is bothering you, don’t sweep it under the rug. Your gut is telling you he’s squicky for a reason. Wouldn’t you rather have a partner whose bits “worked” predictably? They exist. And men who aren’t reliant on porn exist and can be just as kinky and adventurous as you.
He sounds frankly awful and his mental dependence on porn indicates the industry’s success in getting boys hooked young and addicted forever. From my experience, I’d say find someone whose sexual desires are more comparable with your own (and I’m not shaming him… I just think his predicament is a shame)
posted by Dressed to Kill at 10:56 AM on April 29, 2022 [3 favorites]
He sounds frankly awful and his mental dependence on porn indicates the industry’s success in getting boys hooked young and addicted forever. From my experience, I’d say find someone whose sexual desires are more comparable with your own (and I’m not shaming him… I just think his predicament is a shame)
posted by Dressed to Kill at 10:56 AM on April 29, 2022 [3 favorites]
Also I’d like to add that for every man that is obsessed with youth, there are 5 young men who are attracted to older, or more “mature” women… so like… find one of them! They’re fun and not … ahem … usually “compromised” in the genitals
posted by Dressed to Kill at 11:45 AM on April 29, 2022
posted by Dressed to Kill at 11:45 AM on April 29, 2022
I agree that on the whole it sounds like you two are well matched, and you just need to talk a bit more about this. But also you are making some real leaps, which I'll just point out in case it's helpful:
1. Anyway, the big thing that happened today is - we had phone sex and after we both finished, as it were, he asked me how old I was when I had my first orgasm. I said 11 or 12, and he replied with a kind of 'mmm' which sounded turned on? It could have just been an instinctive reaction to the idea of me having an orgasm, but still. I was really young.
There is a, I'm guessing totally unscientifically proven, stereotype that adults with high-sex drives must have been tweens/teens with high sex drives. I would give him the benefit of the doubt that that was all this was, but yes, tell him that any mention of childhood + sexuality is a firm boundary with you.
2. He has also used terms such as 'milf'.
There was a TV show in the US called "SMILF" with the "S" standing for "single" ...which is to say, at least in the US, this is a pretty broad term that is well engrained in popular culture.
3. I agree with fingersandtoes that it sounds like he's picking up on your insecurities around aging, and so he's complementing you, which is....pretty normal? His dating history suggests he has no problem finding women his age or older attractive.
4. There's also been a couple of times that peodophiles have come up (talking about the Jimmy Saville documentary for instance) and he's expressed extreme discomfort with the idea of peodophilia. But again, I worry he's saying this to cover something up.
I mean, I think most people have extreme discomfort with the idea of pedophilia. I wouldn't read into that.
posted by coffeecat at 12:08 PM on April 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
1. Anyway, the big thing that happened today is - we had phone sex and after we both finished, as it were, he asked me how old I was when I had my first orgasm. I said 11 or 12, and he replied with a kind of 'mmm' which sounded turned on? It could have just been an instinctive reaction to the idea of me having an orgasm, but still. I was really young.
There is a, I'm guessing totally unscientifically proven, stereotype that adults with high-sex drives must have been tweens/teens with high sex drives. I would give him the benefit of the doubt that that was all this was, but yes, tell him that any mention of childhood + sexuality is a firm boundary with you.
2. He has also used terms such as 'milf'.
There was a TV show in the US called "SMILF" with the "S" standing for "single" ...which is to say, at least in the US, this is a pretty broad term that is well engrained in popular culture.
3. I agree with fingersandtoes that it sounds like he's picking up on your insecurities around aging, and so he's complementing you, which is....pretty normal? His dating history suggests he has no problem finding women his age or older attractive.
4. There's also been a couple of times that peodophiles have come up (talking about the Jimmy Saville documentary for instance) and he's expressed extreme discomfort with the idea of peodophilia. But again, I worry he's saying this to cover something up.
I mean, I think most people have extreme discomfort with the idea of pedophilia. I wouldn't read into that.
posted by coffeecat at 12:08 PM on April 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
I have a history of trauma and have been married a long time.
Honestly...I think the bottom line is, if someone's squicking you out, if you can talk to them about it then it might be fine. Sometimes that happens.
But if you feel like it's pervasive or central or you can't talk about it then...I'd say don't date this guy. It doesn't have to be about him. It can just be about how you feel around him.
For the aging thing...I'm now of an age where the men who are going to divorce my peers to get a younger model have done it or are doing it. And I don't think there's a way to predict that really. Some people grow up and some don't. But I can tell you that someone worth getting old with would listen to you about how it makes you feel and change their way of talking about things based solely on caring about your feelings.
posted by warriorqueen at 2:12 PM on April 29, 2022 [3 favorites]
Honestly...I think the bottom line is, if someone's squicking you out, if you can talk to them about it then it might be fine. Sometimes that happens.
But if you feel like it's pervasive or central or you can't talk about it then...I'd say don't date this guy. It doesn't have to be about him. It can just be about how you feel around him.
For the aging thing...I'm now of an age where the men who are going to divorce my peers to get a younger model have done it or are doing it. And I don't think there's a way to predict that really. Some people grow up and some don't. But I can tell you that someone worth getting old with would listen to you about how it makes you feel and change their way of talking about things based solely on caring about your feelings.
posted by warriorqueen at 2:12 PM on April 29, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm really surprised by some of these answers.
I have been with guys who have behaved the way you have described. With the benefit of hindsight, I would not have wasted my time on them. Your trauma background might make you overly sensitive, but you're overly sensitive to real triggers, not nothing. Trust your gut.
posted by Polychrome at 3:17 PM on April 29, 2022 [15 favorites]
I have been with guys who have behaved the way you have described. With the benefit of hindsight, I would not have wasted my time on them. Your trauma background might make you overly sensitive, but you're overly sensitive to real triggers, not nothing. Trust your gut.
posted by Polychrome at 3:17 PM on April 29, 2022 [15 favorites]
I am not a counselor, but IMHO you're suffering from a bit of "sunk cost fallacy", as in you are willing to change yourself to keep this guy (even though he's peeving you out), rather than to see who else is out there.
On the other hand, as a relatively normal guy, I don't see any glaring red flags other than bad timing with the sexting and should probably keep that to private chat channels instead of normal texting, and sometimes, mismatched libido levels, and they may be the same problem.
posted by kschang at 3:30 PM on April 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
On the other hand, as a relatively normal guy, I don't see any glaring red flags other than bad timing with the sexting and should probably keep that to private chat channels instead of normal texting, and sometimes, mismatched libido levels, and they may be the same problem.
posted by kschang at 3:30 PM on April 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
Just wanted to add on re read and sharing this with my said spouse. You should be with someone that fully supports your birth control plan. And it sounds like he is pressuring you into sex you find risky and that’s not okay.
posted by Crystalinne at 4:57 PM on April 29, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Crystalinne at 4:57 PM on April 29, 2022 [3 favorites]
"Hey, remember when you asked how old I was when I had my first orgasm? Why did you ask that? Why do you think it's interesting, important or arousing?"
posted by some little punk in a rocket at 5:02 PM on April 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by some little punk in a rocket at 5:02 PM on April 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
You could let him tell you everything but you'll hate yourself for it.
posted by parmanparman at 5:06 PM on April 29, 2022
posted by parmanparman at 5:06 PM on April 29, 2022
First, I'm sorry you were sexually abused as a child and that should never have happened.
>I should say that the abuse wasn't extensive
I can't help but feel you're minimizing here? Even if it happened once, it's still significant I would say. But IANAPsychologist or therapist. I just wanted to make a note of it.
>I do wonder whether the abuse created a lifelong habit of not acting on my instincts / overriding uncomfortable feelings though, hence this question, and also a suspicion of men.
I definitely think you should work through this with a therapist, and also to better understand your sexual needs and preferences, and boundaries.
On the one hand, it sounds like there's a lot of good things about him. It sounds like he handled that one boundary well. Although I'd be curious to know what you misinterpreted from what he said... like he said something problematic, you actually interpreted it correctly, but he backtracked and said, "no I meant this" making you think you were wrong? That's definitely one possibility.
And then there's a LOT of problematic stuff he's done and said. You seem fuzzy on your own preferences and boundaries, and maybe he's taking that in the wrong direction? Maybe he thinks this is what you what, or maybe he really does have shitty beliefs about women. Definitely shore up those boundaries, maybe with the help of a therapist.
>I just want to know none of this is big red flag for a paedo / someone who won't be able to accept me ageing?
Pedophilia is an attraction to children, which is different than thinking that only 18-22 year olds are hot, which is different than not being able to accept you ageing. Are you worried that he could be a predator, or he's attracted to children, but would never act on it? Him expressing extreme discomfort with pedophilia - it's one thing to be disgusted at pedophiles and express compassion about the victims; it's another to express discomfort in a way where he may be squirming about being found out. Which does your spidey sense say it is? Him being turned on by 18-22 year olds - can he see young women as people? When he was reassuring you too much - do you feel like he really meant it? Do you feel like he's just trying to say the "right" things to make you feel better/cover up his true feelings? If that's the case, maybe he sort of recognizes that he has some problematic beliefs about women and sex and he subconsciously wants you to call you out on them? I would ask him about how he feels about you ageing. He's going to age too. When he answers, does it feel disingenuous, like, "oh yes, I would definitely still be attracted to you, yes definitely" or you feel like he's not being honest, or does his answer indicate that he likes you for you?
Overall, it does sound like he has some deep-seated issues around women and sex. He probably needs some therapy to deal with it, and/or you may have to have some hard conversations with him. Whether you're up for that is totally up to you. Also, with the porn-y terms, and being crass - have you told him how you feel about this? If yes, what does he say?
For the record, I would throw this one back.
posted by foxjacket at 6:05 PM on April 29, 2022 [7 favorites]
>I should say that the abuse wasn't extensive
I can't help but feel you're minimizing here? Even if it happened once, it's still significant I would say. But IANAPsychologist or therapist. I just wanted to make a note of it.
>I do wonder whether the abuse created a lifelong habit of not acting on my instincts / overriding uncomfortable feelings though, hence this question, and also a suspicion of men.
I definitely think you should work through this with a therapist, and also to better understand your sexual needs and preferences, and boundaries.
On the one hand, it sounds like there's a lot of good things about him. It sounds like he handled that one boundary well. Although I'd be curious to know what you misinterpreted from what he said... like he said something problematic, you actually interpreted it correctly, but he backtracked and said, "no I meant this" making you think you were wrong? That's definitely one possibility.
And then there's a LOT of problematic stuff he's done and said. You seem fuzzy on your own preferences and boundaries, and maybe he's taking that in the wrong direction? Maybe he thinks this is what you what, or maybe he really does have shitty beliefs about women. Definitely shore up those boundaries, maybe with the help of a therapist.
>I just want to know none of this is big red flag for a paedo / someone who won't be able to accept me ageing?
Pedophilia is an attraction to children, which is different than thinking that only 18-22 year olds are hot, which is different than not being able to accept you ageing. Are you worried that he could be a predator, or he's attracted to children, but would never act on it? Him expressing extreme discomfort with pedophilia - it's one thing to be disgusted at pedophiles and express compassion about the victims; it's another to express discomfort in a way where he may be squirming about being found out. Which does your spidey sense say it is? Him being turned on by 18-22 year olds - can he see young women as people? When he was reassuring you too much - do you feel like he really meant it? Do you feel like he's just trying to say the "right" things to make you feel better/cover up his true feelings? If that's the case, maybe he sort of recognizes that he has some problematic beliefs about women and sex and he subconsciously wants you to call you out on them? I would ask him about how he feels about you ageing. He's going to age too. When he answers, does it feel disingenuous, like, "oh yes, I would definitely still be attracted to you, yes definitely" or you feel like he's not being honest, or does his answer indicate that he likes you for you?
Overall, it does sound like he has some deep-seated issues around women and sex. He probably needs some therapy to deal with it, and/or you may have to have some hard conversations with him. Whether you're up for that is totally up to you. Also, with the porn-y terms, and being crass - have you told him how you feel about this? If yes, what does he say?
For the record, I would throw this one back.
posted by foxjacket at 6:05 PM on April 29, 2022 [7 favorites]
As other folks have noted, generally liking sex is not an all or nothing thing. Everyone has preferences. It sounds like this guy’s preferences maybe don’t align well with yours. (They wouldn’t with mine, for sure.) That’s an entirely valid reason not to continue a sexual relationship with someone. Even if the guy isn’t being internet-stranger-certified creepy (which, I personally would find this guy a bit skeezy based on your description, but that’s not something that can really be objectively assessed except in extreme cases?), if his sexual fantasies or style makes you uncomfortable, that’s simply not a good match. The relationship overall may be worth putting in the time and effort to talk to him about it and see if the issue can be worked out, or it may not - that would depend on a lot of other details that you haven’t told us (and which would have taken a lot longer to describe, of course). It doesn’t sound like you have brought this up with him yet, so that might be worth a try.
One thing that might be an importance difference between the two of you is that it sounds like he thinks of sex as generally taboo or naughty and that’s in fact what he likes about it, while you seem to approach sex with the very different type of enthusiasm of someone who finds it completely natural and normal? I may be reading too much intro your brief description, but if that sounds accurate, potentially part of your reaction or feeling creeped out may be stemming from it feeling a bit like he’s … maybe not trying to shame you, exactly, but injecting an element of shame into this situation that you don’t want?
Being in my early 40s, there’s now been a few guys in my social circles who have left their wives for younger women, or who divorced previously and then went on to date younger women. Usually women in their 20s at least, but there was also the guy who started a sexual relationship with the only barely/technically legal in our particular jurisdiction close friend of his definitely underage child, and one or two where the young woman was old enough for the relationship to not count as statutory rape in any jurisdiction but young enough for that to still be a thing that an outside observer would make note of. I hadn’t followed technically-not-an-illegal-pedophile-in-our-jurisdiction guy’s dating life closely before that, but his girlfriends had been getting younger and younger as he aged. Both him and the other guys in question tended to hang around a much younger crowd as their regular or primary social circle, as well. In many cases, there were women in their lives with histories of trauma and resulting hypersensitivity who were kind of raising the alarm early on, but simultaneously doubting themselves (and being dismissed in general by most of the community due to their history of mental illness).
Anyway, upshot of all that: I don’t know how representative it is, but in my experience, look at his actions and his other relationships. I live in a small town with limited and naturally multi-age social groups, so perhaps a larger proportion of people I know than usual have had a relationship like the 35-26 age gap. But in most cases it is just the one, and was short lived, and the older person in the relationship doesn’t want another such relationship because the difference in life stages quickly became really clear to them and was not something they desired. But someone in their mid 30s or older who still wants to date early to mid 20-year olds after one such experience, or someone who doesn’t really socialize with people their own age or older, or someone where there’s a “crazy” ex who says he shouldn’t be around underage girls/teens - in my experience those are clear and direct red flags. And also, the gut feelings of the women I know with histories of trauma have been either completely right in situations like this or at least partially right and highlighting an important detail that other folks should have paid more attention to far more often than they have been wrong.
posted by eviemath at 6:31 PM on April 29, 2022 [5 favorites]
One thing that might be an importance difference between the two of you is that it sounds like he thinks of sex as generally taboo or naughty and that’s in fact what he likes about it, while you seem to approach sex with the very different type of enthusiasm of someone who finds it completely natural and normal? I may be reading too much intro your brief description, but if that sounds accurate, potentially part of your reaction or feeling creeped out may be stemming from it feeling a bit like he’s … maybe not trying to shame you, exactly, but injecting an element of shame into this situation that you don’t want?
Being in my early 40s, there’s now been a few guys in my social circles who have left their wives for younger women, or who divorced previously and then went on to date younger women. Usually women in their 20s at least, but there was also the guy who started a sexual relationship with the only barely/technically legal in our particular jurisdiction close friend of his definitely underage child, and one or two where the young woman was old enough for the relationship to not count as statutory rape in any jurisdiction but young enough for that to still be a thing that an outside observer would make note of. I hadn’t followed technically-not-an-illegal-pedophile-in-our-jurisdiction guy’s dating life closely before that, but his girlfriends had been getting younger and younger as he aged. Both him and the other guys in question tended to hang around a much younger crowd as their regular or primary social circle, as well. In many cases, there were women in their lives with histories of trauma and resulting hypersensitivity who were kind of raising the alarm early on, but simultaneously doubting themselves (and being dismissed in general by most of the community due to their history of mental illness).
Anyway, upshot of all that: I don’t know how representative it is, but in my experience, look at his actions and his other relationships. I live in a small town with limited and naturally multi-age social groups, so perhaps a larger proportion of people I know than usual have had a relationship like the 35-26 age gap. But in most cases it is just the one, and was short lived, and the older person in the relationship doesn’t want another such relationship because the difference in life stages quickly became really clear to them and was not something they desired. But someone in their mid 30s or older who still wants to date early to mid 20-year olds after one such experience, or someone who doesn’t really socialize with people their own age or older, or someone where there’s a “crazy” ex who says he shouldn’t be around underage girls/teens - in my experience those are clear and direct red flags. And also, the gut feelings of the women I know with histories of trauma have been either completely right in situations like this or at least partially right and highlighting an important detail that other folks should have paid more attention to far more often than they have been wrong.
posted by eviemath at 6:31 PM on April 29, 2022 [5 favorites]
I don't think it matters if he's particularly "pervy" or not. Some of the things he wants to do or share with you are not your cup of tea and actually make you uncomfortable. That is really all there is to it! You're not being unfair.
I've had challenges my whole life establishing and keeping boundaries in relationships because of things that happened to me in my childhood, too. Your story sounded so familiar to some of the relationships I got myself into when I was finally healthy enough to try to negotiate these boundaries in my dating life. I wasn't practiced at all. I felt I was finally strong enough to be open minded and explore a bit, in many ways -- and I was! I would meet men who would be SO excited about my openness, my permissiveness and enthusiasm, and they would go too far with me, and I would feel bad.
But that's the thing - you don't have anything to feel bad about at all!
For comparison, I would feel uncomfortable with some of the things your partner has said. I dated guys in the past who said things that I really thought were icky, and I didn't say anything, we just would wind up breaking up. Sometimes, now, at the ripe old age of 44, as a married lady with a very wonderful husband, I remember some of those things that were said to me and I cringe - mostly because I'm irritated that I didn't just say how I felt!
I wouldn't necessarily drop this guy like a hot rock, if you felt like you could tell him how you feel about some of the things he does/says and he wouldn't punish you. But if you don't think you can tell him how you feel, maybe it is time to move on.
Consider this: You are reticent to tell him how you really feel about some of the things he's shared with you, but he is totally comfortable being very open with you about his every salacious thought. Doesn't sound very balanced to me.
posted by pazazygeek at 6:37 PM on April 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
I've had challenges my whole life establishing and keeping boundaries in relationships because of things that happened to me in my childhood, too. Your story sounded so familiar to some of the relationships I got myself into when I was finally healthy enough to try to negotiate these boundaries in my dating life. I wasn't practiced at all. I felt I was finally strong enough to be open minded and explore a bit, in many ways -- and I was! I would meet men who would be SO excited about my openness, my permissiveness and enthusiasm, and they would go too far with me, and I would feel bad.
But that's the thing - you don't have anything to feel bad about at all!
For comparison, I would feel uncomfortable with some of the things your partner has said. I dated guys in the past who said things that I really thought were icky, and I didn't say anything, we just would wind up breaking up. Sometimes, now, at the ripe old age of 44, as a married lady with a very wonderful husband, I remember some of those things that were said to me and I cringe - mostly because I'm irritated that I didn't just say how I felt!
I wouldn't necessarily drop this guy like a hot rock, if you felt like you could tell him how you feel about some of the things he does/says and he wouldn't punish you. But if you don't think you can tell him how you feel, maybe it is time to move on.
Consider this: You are reticent to tell him how you really feel about some of the things he's shared with you, but he is totally comfortable being very open with you about his every salacious thought. Doesn't sound very balanced to me.
posted by pazazygeek at 6:37 PM on April 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
Set boundaries. Tell him when you're uncomfortable with something, and why. If he keeps doing it, that's when it becomes a real problem.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 7:44 PM on April 29, 2022
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 7:44 PM on April 29, 2022
Hmmm, I really don’t know. I’m your age, and have done a LOT of work and reflection in therapy and with loved ones to work on past sexual trauma. Now I’m doing great overall! Also like you, I’m a super sexual person who pretty much only dates people who are equally sexual… and equally kind. Something feels off about this guy. He may be great but that doesn’t mean he’s great for you. A good partner can be both super sexual or even porny and it still feels comfortable and safe because you two have good communication, care, and respect. This guy seems pretty self-focused, and there are a lot of these dudes out there, sadly. Fortunately there are also a bunch of rad ones! Harder to find but out there. I agree that it’d be easier to explore your past plus current wants and needs with the help of a professional. Sex is amazing but can bring up intense feelings, and we all deserve to truly enjoy ourselves! A friend once told me that, after some bad experiences, even a basic kind guy can seem special. Maybe this guy is the nicest guy you’ve been with but there are definitely equally sexy dudes who are kinder. I was just in your shoes, so worried I couldn’t find better, yet it’s just six months later and life is good!
posted by smorgasbord at 8:01 PM on April 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by smorgasbord at 8:01 PM on April 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
Assuming that he's not doing anything illegal (which it definitely doesn't sound like), then it doesn't matter whether he is "pervy" or not, either in your eyes or anyone else's.
What matters is whether you feel comfortable. It sounds like you don't. You get to feel this entirely on your own, and there are only two sensible options : ask him to change things such that you are completely comfortable with the things he says and does, or move on. You never have to "put up" with anything, even if every answer here said he was perfect and you were strange, you'd still be right to want something different.
posted by tillsbury at 8:18 PM on April 29, 2022
What matters is whether you feel comfortable. It sounds like you don't. You get to feel this entirely on your own, and there are only two sensible options : ask him to change things such that you are completely comfortable with the things he says and does, or move on. You never have to "put up" with anything, even if every answer here said he was perfect and you were strange, you'd still be right to want something different.
posted by tillsbury at 8:18 PM on April 29, 2022
You two are naked, having sex, talking dirty, role playing, acting out fantasies, and still getting to know and understand each other. Don't expect in such a situation that everything is going to sound and feel perfect. It's a messy endeavor you are engaged in and it's not realistic to expect everything to align perfectly so quickly. It takes time for you to find each other's boundaries, likes, dislikes, etc.
posted by Dansaman at 11:08 PM on April 29, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Dansaman at 11:08 PM on April 29, 2022 [3 favorites]
"door number 22, he said 'that's a good age'"
I would suspect that that's coming out of nostalgia, ie his own 22nd year, rather than attraction. Worth asking him what his early 20s were like.
It sounds more like every person who's ever responded to having a birthday with," x is a good age!" which is always a ridiculous thing to say, and always meant that it had been a good year for the speaker.
Overall, I wouldn't be interested in him, but nothing you've said is giving me huge red flags, and given the frequency of men dating women much younger than them it does look like he has a preference for women his actual own age, as evidenced by who he dates.
But something is off to you, and wigging you out, even if it's not something you can explain.
Things can look like they are ok on paper - if they actually aren't OK, then you don't need to justify it if you're not into him.
But maybe that's not it -
If you have a high sex drive and like role play, mild kink etc, but men who also have really high sex drives and like role play, mild kink, would *inherently* wig you out, in which case, yeah, that's a therapy thing. And he still might not be a good fit.
One thing that stood out to me:
"Why does he need to reassure me so much?"
Uh, from what you've said, I would have said seems like you *do* want and need reassurance that your partner is into you and not into younger girls? And that's what you're posting about here, so... Maybe he's accurately picking up on that... But it seems more like the problem is that you don't believe his reassurances, so they aren't working for you. Him picking up that you seem to want reassurance seems fair though.
It's Schroedinger creep here. Is he a creep, or do you have anxiety about this and are reassurance seeking? Maybe it's both?
posted by Elysum at 4:58 AM on April 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
I would suspect that that's coming out of nostalgia, ie his own 22nd year, rather than attraction. Worth asking him what his early 20s were like.
It sounds more like every person who's ever responded to having a birthday with," x is a good age!" which is always a ridiculous thing to say, and always meant that it had been a good year for the speaker.
Overall, I wouldn't be interested in him, but nothing you've said is giving me huge red flags, and given the frequency of men dating women much younger than them it does look like he has a preference for women his actual own age, as evidenced by who he dates.
But something is off to you, and wigging you out, even if it's not something you can explain.
Things can look like they are ok on paper - if they actually aren't OK, then you don't need to justify it if you're not into him.
But maybe that's not it -
If you have a high sex drive and like role play, mild kink etc, but men who also have really high sex drives and like role play, mild kink, would *inherently* wig you out, in which case, yeah, that's a therapy thing. And he still might not be a good fit.
One thing that stood out to me:
"Why does he need to reassure me so much?"
Uh, from what you've said, I would have said seems like you *do* want and need reassurance that your partner is into you and not into younger girls? And that's what you're posting about here, so... Maybe he's accurately picking up on that... But it seems more like the problem is that you don't believe his reassurances, so they aren't working for you. Him picking up that you seem to want reassurance seems fair though.
It's Schroedinger creep here. Is he a creep, or do you have anxiety about this and are reassurance seeking? Maybe it's both?
posted by Elysum at 4:58 AM on April 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
yet there's this kind of...vibe that i think you're picking up on that some guys have that is 100000% connected to watching way way too much porn and having a hard time accepting that life is not possible porn time all the time, it's actually life. That and also being really into things that are "taboo" because they're "taboo" and...it's not a good vibe.
This. I also found the sensitivity issues with death grip but him blaming it on circumcision to be problematic.
I don’t think he’s a Bad Man, but I think you’re describing a dude who is going to be so, so much work to untrain, and from anecdatal experience with similarly aged women to you, who is going to keep escalating stuff in order to be satisfied. Have you had plain sex? How does he react to it? Because plain sex is the stuff that long term relationships ultimately get made to. I have a friend who literally breaks down in tears thinking of the hours of work a guy like this wants before sex at her stage of this relationship path.
posted by corb at 7:19 AM on April 30, 2022 [4 favorites]
This. I also found the sensitivity issues with death grip but him blaming it on circumcision to be problematic.
I don’t think he’s a Bad Man, but I think you’re describing a dude who is going to be so, so much work to untrain, and from anecdatal experience with similarly aged women to you, who is going to keep escalating stuff in order to be satisfied. Have you had plain sex? How does he react to it? Because plain sex is the stuff that long term relationships ultimately get made to. I have a friend who literally breaks down in tears thinking of the hours of work a guy like this wants before sex at her stage of this relationship path.
posted by corb at 7:19 AM on April 30, 2022 [4 favorites]
but still. I was really young.
FWIW he didn't know this until you told him - he might have thought you were a late starter.
posted by HiroProtagonist at 7:59 PM on May 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
FWIW he didn't know this until you told him - he might have thought you were a late starter.
posted by HiroProtagonist at 7:59 PM on May 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
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this instance sounds like you were asking to be reassured.
I dunno, I'm over-averagely suspicious of men in general and of porn-addled men in particular, but nothing you've written here worries me. (For whatever that's worth... you're the one who's met him and had sex with him; your perceptions matter a lot more than mine.)
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:20 AM on April 29, 2022 [9 favorites]