Another covid logistics question

April 13, 2022 8:42 AM

Complicated covid logistics question inside. Please only answer if you understand the relationship between chicken pox and shingles.

I live on the West Coast and my family is on the East Coast.

I haven't been able to see my family since the start of the pandemic because for me to go quarantine in a hotel would leave husband at home by himself and because of his disability he can't do everything our cats need. So, he would have to go to the hotel, and I would have to stay home with the cats.

We will have to pay for that hotel stay. This is the kind of area where decent hotels range 300-400-500 per night and because of his disability this isn't something we would want to go cheap on.
So it's not like we can just spring for a quarantine situation whenever we want.

So I have been waiting for some kind of situation to present itself that would make it feasible for me to see them.

NOW, my husband has to take a trip out of town for 3 days this summer.

When he gets back, he will be quarantining in a hotel, and I will be home. Therefore in effect, I will be quarantining too.

That means that this is a situation I could take advantage of to see my family. Sounds great!

But there's things I'm worried about:

I don't want to invite my mom because travel stresses her out and she almost never has a good time. She would come anyway, but I'm also worried about catching covid from them, because my brother has got it into her head that none of this is a big deal; viruses don't cause damage; masks don't do anything; vaccines are poison.

And that's why I don't want to invite my brother either. I have no idea what their vaccination status is. They may have gotten one or two, but definitely not the complete set.

I don't want to invite my dad because he is dealing with cancer and I want him to spend his energy and immune system resources to get in and out of various hospitals and doctors' offices safely until the cancer is gone.

My extended family does not have any other covid deniers in it so I'm less frantically worried about covid finding an in there because they're looking out for each other and being sensible.

With these 3 though? There is nothing keeping covid out of our lives except me, gamely reminding them of how reality works whenever I can. So I'm going to... drag them across the country now? And expose them? And expose myself? I will be quarantining once they leave, but I do not want this virus in my system. It's not rational to go courting this virus.

So what if I just invite some members of my extended family? I don't want to invite anyone else and it would be insulting to everyone involved anyway.

So then my next thought was, I will go there. But then I would need to leave early to quarantine on that side, so I don't bring it to them, leaving husband at home alone for longer than he can deal with due to his disability.

It's not that I'm against travel - I took a trip last fall, but it was during a lull, mask mandates and vaccine card checking were the norm, we felt protected by the vaccine, it was a much shorter flight, and I wasn't potentially bringing an instance of the virus into the midst of people I care about.

So, the conclusion I have come to is that because of these situations, I will just be quarantining alone, for no reason, because no one will be coming here and I won't be going anywhere.

Is there anything anyone can see in this situation that would get me anywhere that I am missing? (Other than, you know, "your brother is right", because you won't be paying for the consequences of me getting this virus, I will.)

posted by anonymous to Health & Fitness (18 answers total)

Is there anything anyone can see in this situation that would get me anywhere that I am missing?

Your dad may have an entirely different view on his medical situation than you do. As many people age, their risk calculus changes. They may accept small risks of large magnitude (an immunocompromised person catching COVID) knowing that they have a large risk of large magnitude of simply dying in the near term from natural causes. You're making this decision partially for him without his input. What does he think?
posted by saeculorum at 8:53 AM on April 13, 2022 [13 favorites]

With these 3 though? There is nothing keeping covid out of our lives except me, gamely reminding them of how reality works whenever I can. So I'm going to... drag them across the country now? And expose them? And expose myself? I will be quarantining once they leave, but I do not want this virus in my system.

I get that, but I am also a little confused as to why you think travel is the big problem here. If your family members aren't fully vaccinated, don't wear masks, and are bopping around living their daily lives, one trip (where they would actually have to wear masks in the airport and on the plane) is a drop in the bucket.

It sounds like maybe right now you just don't want to see people who aren't observing COVID precautions, period. That's a perfectly legitimate point of view (I don't know whether it's consistent with how you're living your life on a daily basis, since if you go out you are undoubtedly encountering such people frequently, but you have to manage your own risks), but it would be better to be honest with yourself about that. Trying to make it altruistic--on behalf of grown adults who don't seem to be interested in being the beneficiary of your altruism--will only confuse matters.
posted by praemunire at 8:57 AM on April 13, 2022 [23 favorites]

This might be easier to answer if you elaborated on what chicken pox and shingles have to do with your question. I understand the relationship between the two, but not really how it applies here.
posted by cakelite at 9:22 AM on April 13, 2022 [21 favorites]

The way out I see is this (but I'm not sure I have a handle on the geography):

- you get a 3x vaccinated with proof + mask on required cat sitter to come in for the days you have to quarantine - but I don't think you have to quarantine on your way there if your lifestyle is pretty quarantined; they're more at risk from their daily lives

- you fly out there and stay in a hotel or other accommodation out there

- you only visit with vaccinated people indoors and/or you mask

- you visit with unvaccinated people outdoors and potentially mask
posted by warriorqueen at 9:24 AM on April 13, 2022 [6 favorites]

...or board the cat is an option too
posted by warriorqueen at 9:30 AM on April 13, 2022 [6 favorites]

My first thought was, this isn't a COVID question at bottom, it's a family question. It sounds to me like you and your brother have really different priorities and perspectives here, and you maybe resent his influence over your mother, and you maybe don't feel so great going to a lot of effort to protect people who aren't interested in reciprocating, especially when one of them is complainy and might not even express appreciation at seeing you. I have a lot of COVID angst myself which, if you dig in the dirt, is built on bigger-pictures issues of respect and autonomy and is always inflected by whatever preexisting relationship I have with whoever's behavior is annoying me -- I'm not judging you for any of that. I just think it might help you to separate the two things, family dynamics and infectious disease dynamics.

Regarding COVID precautions, I'm in a similar situation with my dad, and don't feel like we have any good options on the table, so I'm settling for what feels like the least bad option. I will tell you my approach in case it helps you think through yours. Short version: I try to time trips around waves; I bring a large stash of rapid tests and masks, and use both consistently throughout the trip; I don't quarantine, because it's too costly; I do ensure I have a safe place to isolate, in case I test positive while there (I actually have a lease on an apartment in their town for exactly this purpose); and I keep my risk profile low while I am not traveling, to reduce the chance that something is already brewing before I embark. I would much prefer a world where he wasn't terminally ill and I could just stay home and ride it out a little longer; but the only real alternative in front of me is that he is terminally ill and I just elect not to visit him, and that feels worse to me, based on my own backdrop of feelings and beliefs about what family is for, and my own understanding of just how screwed my mom is going to be when he passes (answer: extremely!). For my dad's part, he is more cautious than your folks but less cautious than me. YMMV on all of that.

Other layers of protection you could add profitably, depending on your setup on either side, which might be less challenging than quarantine -- open windows, portable HEPA filtration units, stay in a hotel and gather outside instead of inside.

You won't find me arguing that you should give up and get COVID. If the strategy I've made my peace with doesn't work for you, perhaps you have a friend you've missed who you trust more than your family, who could come visit during your forced quarantine time, so that you are not alone?
posted by eirias at 9:40 AM on April 13, 2022 [7 favorites]

(I totally get your chickenpox/shingle thing, appreciated).

I think you will never substantially add risk to people from you; it seems especially for your nuclear family that they already embrace much more risk than you will bring. I understand and respect where it comes from, but you have my permission to push that worry to the back of the stove.

I think your main concern needs to be risk to yourself and your husband. That's what you can control.

I think travel is still so much riskier than anything else. So I would invite them to see you, then host them outside and/or ask them to mask around you. They can decide for themselves whether they want to risk that travel, but they are sentient autonomous adults who can make that choice. I lean towards them traveling over you traveling because you can't reduce their risks by your traveling, and I doubt it would raise their risks for them to travel. You can reduce your and husband risks by not traveling, and by knowing/controlling interactions once they are with you.
posted by Dashy at 9:43 AM on April 13, 2022 [4 favorites]

> Is there anything anyone can see in this situation that would get me anywhere that I am missing?

You haven’t mentioned discussing the possibility of a visit with your family in your question, but you put a lot of assumptions into their heads as part of your interpersonal calculus. You should see what they would like and if there are any points of agreement before you twist yourself in these knots.
posted by tchemgrrl at 9:50 AM on April 13, 2022 [1 favorite]

It sounds as if they are not taking covid precautions generally - is that correct? If so, then I think the quarantine on the far end of you visiting them might be the thing that doesn't matter. In your shoes given a general level of comfort with travel in some situations, I might decide that as long as I mask completely on the airplane, I am not bringing any significant risk into their life than they are already experiencing. So that might be the compromise - discuss it with them and if they're comfortable, fly to them, skip the quarantine there, come home, quarantine before seeing your husband again.

Having said that, I'm not personally travelling at all yet so if you want support for staying home and keeping the risk of spread between you and your family zero, I will gladly support you. But if you want the middle ground where someone travels, that might be the one.
posted by Stacey at 10:03 AM on April 13, 2022 [5 favorites]

Since it's relevant to the trade-offs OP is making:

one trip (where they would actually have to wear masks in the airport and on the plane) is a drop in the bucket.

I agree with the general point that airports and especially planes (which filter air extremely well) are actually relatively safe places to be for people who are otherwise not taking precautions in the days and weeks before they get to the airport. But it's very unlikely the mask mandate will still be in place in a month's time. It was due to expire this Monday and has just been extended for another 2 weeks. Previously they've extended it for a month at a time (or longer), so this is a sign that the mandate is not much longer for this world. Which means, if the requirement to wear a mask while traveling is part of your calculus, don't count on it existing later this summer.
posted by caek at 10:21 AM on April 13, 2022 [3 favorites]

what [do] chicken pox and shingles have to do with your question?

This is mere speculation, but possibly it's this, which also intensely bothers me:

"Awww, whatcha worried about, it's just the chicken pox, nervous Nellie, let the kids play!"
[30 years go by; Shingrix not yet available or they never hear about it or they're antivax]
Crippling case of the shingles; blindness, encephalitis, death.

"Awww, keep your pants on, COVID schmovid, it's the flu. Take that creepy mask off and let's boogie!"
[howevermany years go by; whatever treatment might manifest not yet manifested or they never hear about it or they're antivax]
WHO KNOWS? Who. The hell. Knows. OMG, we have no idea what could happen, and nevertheless everybody is all "back to normal, whee, yippee, boing!!!!11!"
posted by Don Pepino at 10:48 AM on April 13, 2022 [10 favorites]

OP, if you are in fact coming to this question with the kind of logic Don Pepino is using, I'm going to guess your fear of getting COVID is probably such that you don't really want to be around your family at all right now, and are looking for permission to do so. My only advice would be to really think about what saeculorum has said here. You haven't seen your dad in over two years and now he's getting cancer treatment. You should really weigh your options before putting off seeing him indefinitely.
posted by cakelite at 11:16 AM on April 13, 2022 [8 favorites]

So I'm not sure I'm understanding right, but let's see:

You're on the West Coast and you originally wanted to fly to the East Coast to see your family, right? But now you're thinking that since your husband is going to have to quarantine in a hotel, you could invite your family to fly out to you instead? (And stay with you in your home?) But they're all pandemic-scoffers, so you don't want to expose them to the dangers of the trip.

So you're also still considering the original idea of flying out to them, but you say:
But then I would need to leave early to quarantine on that side, so I don't bring it to them, leaving husband at home alone for longer than he can deal with due to his disability.

Is that right? If so, my suggestion: Fly out to the East Coast and plan to come back right when your husband leaves for his trip. You guys can arrange for someone (a cat sitter, friend, neighbor kid) to come in regularly (masked) and help him out with the cat stuff while he's home alone. On the East Coast you'll stay at a hotel, airbnb, or wherever and meet up with all your family members, but only or mainly outdoors, masking whenever you think you should. That's doable and protects everyone in question as much as possible while also making it possible for you to not waste time (or as much time) quarantining on that side. When you get back you can quarantine at home and your husband can quarantine wherever he's been planning to do that.

Of course, one unaddressed factor is what the infection rates are going to be when your husband is scheduled to travel - the situation may be different then than it is now.

Also, you sound like you've probably got the more effective kinds of masks, but if you don't - get some. And if you haven't gotten the second booster yet, consider putting it off until two weeks or so before the trip so that it's at maximum effectiveness then.
posted by trig at 11:53 AM on April 13, 2022 [5 favorites]

Here's how we dealt with seeing family who would have to travel:

They rented an airbnb, we visited masked with N95s (all of us!) OUTSIDE for three days with them taking a series of rapid tests and isolating at the aribnb (we delivered home cooked meals). Because omicron is showing up with symptoms pretty quickly we felt this was sufficient to socialize outside without masks for the remainder of their visit. When they left, we then waited a few days and rapid tested ourselves to make sure it hadn't slipped in somehow. Our comfort level around the unknown dangers of long covid seem to be about the same as your's which is "Oh hell NO". If family had been unwilling to wear well fitting n95s and test while we waited out the period of "they could have it but not be feeling symptomatic yet", it would have been a hard no from us. It also would have been a hard no if they were not fully vaxxed with a booster.

In the summer, I do think you have the option of saying "yes, I would love to see you! Come on out, we're going to be outside, here's what that's going to look like, I understand if this feels like over reacting to you, but it's what we need to do in order to keep my husband/me safe."

I do think there's an element of many people who are already in their last decade(s) of life feeling much more lenient because they're ok with this being the thing that does them in. It's something I've had to make my peace with, even though I don't love it. I would let your parents make the decision for themselves if that's a risk they want to take. It's likely no more dangerous than how they're already living, unfortunately.

tl;dr: you can have a visit with masks outside until everyone has rapid tested negative three times over a series of days and then continue socializing outside. A visit won't include a bunch of touristy things, but that's ok, because the point is getting to see each other.
posted by Bottlecap at 1:08 PM on April 13, 2022 [3 favorites]

I’m not clear on the quarantining. Are you quarantining to protect yourself, your family, or your husband?
posted by haptic_avenger at 3:50 PM on April 13, 2022 [1 favorite]

I think you may want to consider doing the traveling, because it is probably easier for you to remove yourself from a situation if you feel unsafe (vs trying to kick out relatives).

Regarding quarantining before you leave, you may find it helpful to have a conversation with the relevant family members about what measures (how long, to what degree, etc.) they feel comfortable with.

At the end of the day, you need to make the decisions that are right for you and your SO. Covid is no joke. However, Covid isn't the only risk. I think many folks out there are weighing the cost of potentially never seeing family members again vs potentially contacting covid. (No easy decisions there).

In terms of net risk to society, holding all else equal, there's probably less risk from a covid careful individual doing the traveling over a less careful one.

For your consideration, the cost of plane fares is sky rocketing for this summer. You may wish to buy a refundable ticket now. If you decide later on to cancel, you can either keep the credit or donate it to a worthy cause.
posted by oceano at 11:08 PM on April 13, 2022 [2 favorites]

Sorry to be a bit grim, I think you need to weigh the risk of COVID with the risk of potentially never getting to see your dad in-person again. Since our government has taken the stance of "time to accept COVID as endemic," and given how few people are boosted, the risks now are likely about as low as they'll be in the near-ish future (with the usual caveat that some parts of the country are not matching the overall trend).

Given your brother, I'd operate on the assumption they could all have it at anytime. I agree with those saying it makes little sense to worry about adding to their exposure, given how cautious you're being and flights being relatively low-exposure if properly masked (i.e. N95, tight seal, etc.). I'd fly out there, stay in a hotel/AirBNB, and then only spend time with them unmasked outdoors or masked indoors.
posted by coffeecat at 9:04 AM on April 14, 2022 [3 favorites]

I'm not saying this was my question but if it was I'd like to thank everyone for their kind, considerate & thoughtful advice. I think if this was my question I would feel like I have finally found a way & that I could not have done this without your help. <3
posted by bleep at 12:22 PM on April 14, 2022 [3 favorites]