Point of Diminishing Returns When Cooking Veggies
April 6, 2022 10:40 PM Subscribe
Do you eat your greens? Do you eat them regularly, without stress? Can you answer some questions I have about eating them raw vs cooked? Come inside.
I am a picky eater and a lifelong vegetarian. My favorite way to consume vegetables is in soups, stews, salsas, and occasionally fresh green juice from the local juice bar. I also like raw carrots and will eat those often. :)
However, for the last few months my diet has consisted mostly of dairy, grains, and sugars, and I can feel the absence of vegetables deep in my soul... and my gut.
The blocker for me is a recurring concern about whether I am eating veggies "right."
• When I make homemade soups, I worry about whether I'm cooking spinach or broccoli in a way that retains as much of their nutrients as possible while making them yummy and palatable without just chucking them in raw.
• When I choose a microwave dinner that is mostly veggies, I wonder if I'm really just getting calories and not "real" veggie goodness.
• When I make steamed veggies, like broccoli or zucchini, I like to cover them with some cheese and breadcrumbs and broil them for a bit until the cheese is delicious and brown. Does the cheese cancel things out?
Then what about juicing? I love juiced veggies (because no pulp) but my god is that a luxury right now. I really don't have space for a home juicer. Should I spring for one anyway as a safeguard against my other veggie hangups?
Please advise. :( I want to eat well, but I am very stressed out by this and it makes me sad. Also, if you have any tips about adding spinach into soups, I would be grateful to hear it. When I do it, the leaves either get slimy or don't cook down at all and I can't figure out why.
Thank you.
I am a picky eater and a lifelong vegetarian. My favorite way to consume vegetables is in soups, stews, salsas, and occasionally fresh green juice from the local juice bar. I also like raw carrots and will eat those often. :)
However, for the last few months my diet has consisted mostly of dairy, grains, and sugars, and I can feel the absence of vegetables deep in my soul... and my gut.
The blocker for me is a recurring concern about whether I am eating veggies "right."
• When I make homemade soups, I worry about whether I'm cooking spinach or broccoli in a way that retains as much of their nutrients as possible while making them yummy and palatable without just chucking them in raw.
• When I choose a microwave dinner that is mostly veggies, I wonder if I'm really just getting calories and not "real" veggie goodness.
• When I make steamed veggies, like broccoli or zucchini, I like to cover them with some cheese and breadcrumbs and broil them for a bit until the cheese is delicious and brown. Does the cheese cancel things out?
Then what about juicing? I love juiced veggies (because no pulp) but my god is that a luxury right now. I really don't have space for a home juicer. Should I spring for one anyway as a safeguard against my other veggie hangups?
Please advise. :( I want to eat well, but I am very stressed out by this and it makes me sad. Also, if you have any tips about adding spinach into soups, I would be grateful to hear it. When I do it, the leaves either get slimy or don't cook down at all and I can't figure out why.
Thank you.
I think you should eat the vegetables you like, the way you like them, and not worry about it. Seriously, you are probably fine doing what you're doing if you're making an effort to eat vegetables at all.
A few points I feel I can add to-- cooking vegetables harms some nutrients, but it also makes others more bioavailable. So long as you are eating a mild variety, you will hit them all. Juicing removes the fiber from vegetables which is not great nutritionally, but juices are delicious and arguably more nutritious than other drinks. But if you like them, you should have them. Smoothies where you're blending in all the fiber would be a compromise.
Cheese and crumbs don't cancel out anything. You still get the nutrition from the vegetables, you're also getting the cheese and crumbs. Adding fat to vegetables is actually good because a lot of vitamins are fat-soluble so otherwise with no fat you'd just pee them out. The vegetables you actually eat are more nutritionally valuable than the ones you pick at or skip.
Same with microwaving-- on a molecular level, microwaving is very similar to steaming, so the method is of no concern. Frozen vegetables may in some cases be more nutritious than fresh because they traveled less before they were flash frozen, so they degraded less before they got to you. Canned and frozen vegetables are generally better than not eating vegetables.
Please don't stress out about it-- food is for enjoyment and for fuel for your life, any vegetables are good vegetables, stress is less healthy than cheese. (Assuming you are not allergic to vegetables or lactose, but you know what i mean.)
If you want inspiration, i have found haveaplant.com to be a good recipe resource.
posted by blnkfrnk at 11:02 PM on April 6, 2022 [13 favorites]
A few points I feel I can add to-- cooking vegetables harms some nutrients, but it also makes others more bioavailable. So long as you are eating a mild variety, you will hit them all. Juicing removes the fiber from vegetables which is not great nutritionally, but juices are delicious and arguably more nutritious than other drinks. But if you like them, you should have them. Smoothies where you're blending in all the fiber would be a compromise.
Cheese and crumbs don't cancel out anything. You still get the nutrition from the vegetables, you're also getting the cheese and crumbs. Adding fat to vegetables is actually good because a lot of vitamins are fat-soluble so otherwise with no fat you'd just pee them out. The vegetables you actually eat are more nutritionally valuable than the ones you pick at or skip.
Same with microwaving-- on a molecular level, microwaving is very similar to steaming, so the method is of no concern. Frozen vegetables may in some cases be more nutritious than fresh because they traveled less before they were flash frozen, so they degraded less before they got to you. Canned and frozen vegetables are generally better than not eating vegetables.
Please don't stress out about it-- food is for enjoyment and for fuel for your life, any vegetables are good vegetables, stress is less healthy than cheese. (Assuming you are not allergic to vegetables or lactose, but you know what i mean.)
If you want inspiration, i have found haveaplant.com to be a good recipe resource.
posted by blnkfrnk at 11:02 PM on April 6, 2022 [13 favorites]
If you really want to drive yourself batty, you could optimize for the freshest and most bioavaliable food from non large scale agricultural means and only eat it in the most perfect way possible as to preserve the sanctity of the vegetable that you have received.
In other words, just eat them as how you please! It's important to focus more on pleasure and your own feelings rather than fears of judgment or anxiety, and honestly you will eat more vegetables if you just let yourself have them.
My favorite methods? Lightly frying cabbage with a little bit of oil and water, and blanching any leafy green, Cantonese style. I like steaming broccoli in the microwave with a little of water and a plate over the bowl to catch the steam.
posted by yueliang at 11:29 PM on April 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
In other words, just eat them as how you please! It's important to focus more on pleasure and your own feelings rather than fears of judgment or anxiety, and honestly you will eat more vegetables if you just let yourself have them.
My favorite methods? Lightly frying cabbage with a little bit of oil and water, and blanching any leafy green, Cantonese style. I like steaming broccoli in the microwave with a little of water and a plate over the bowl to catch the steam.
posted by yueliang at 11:29 PM on April 6, 2022 [2 favorites]
An important note is that there is no cancelling each other out. Your veggies give you potassium and your dairy gives you riboflavin, for example.
Do you think that if you learned more about vegetarian nutrition (like from a complete and well-balanced book rather than 300 web articles like me!) it would reduce your anxiety and increase your confidence in making food choices?
posted by DarlingBri at 12:11 AM on April 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
Do you think that if you learned more about vegetarian nutrition (like from a complete and well-balanced book rather than 300 web articles like me!) it would reduce your anxiety and increase your confidence in making food choices?
posted by DarlingBri at 12:11 AM on April 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
You will definitely get more nutrients from vegetables you do eat than ones you don’t eat, however they’re prepared.
I know that’s sounds a bit glib, but I really mean it: if the problem you’re trying to solve is that you’re not eating enough vegetables, then a good start is to eat them in whatever way you find enjoyable. By all means try and learn about nutrition and learn new cooking methods, but start with the attitude that every extra vegetable you eat is a positive. Don’t feel bad for putting cheese on your broccoli, feel good for eating broccoli.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 12:23 AM on April 7, 2022 [16 favorites]
I know that’s sounds a bit glib, but I really mean it: if the problem you’re trying to solve is that you’re not eating enough vegetables, then a good start is to eat them in whatever way you find enjoyable. By all means try and learn about nutrition and learn new cooking methods, but start with the attitude that every extra vegetable you eat is a positive. Don’t feel bad for putting cheese on your broccoli, feel good for eating broccoli.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 12:23 AM on April 7, 2022 [16 favorites]
This is way, way more worry than you need to have about eating vegetables. If you eat them, regularly, in some format, you’re doing great.
Have you heard of orthorexia? It might be useful to google it and have a read - it’s basically where someone becomes so overly concerned with the healthiness of what they’re eating, that it becomes an obsessive behaviour, that actually itself is more harmful to their overall wellbeing than just eating some well-boiled broccoli (which would, by the way, be great and not at all harmful).
Not to say you’re all the way down that alleyway, but if you’re feeling “very stressed out” about whether microwaved veg is healthy enough, that certainly feels like things are out of whack. The healthiest thing you can do is to give yourself permission to just eat vegetables in a range of ways, depending what you enjoy/is convenient and stop caring about exactly how many nutrients they might have.
posted by penguin pie at 1:08 AM on April 7, 2022 [18 favorites]
Have you heard of orthorexia? It might be useful to google it and have a read - it’s basically where someone becomes so overly concerned with the healthiness of what they’re eating, that it becomes an obsessive behaviour, that actually itself is more harmful to their overall wellbeing than just eating some well-boiled broccoli (which would, by the way, be great and not at all harmful).
Not to say you’re all the way down that alleyway, but if you’re feeling “very stressed out” about whether microwaved veg is healthy enough, that certainly feels like things are out of whack. The healthiest thing you can do is to give yourself permission to just eat vegetables in a range of ways, depending what you enjoy/is convenient and stop caring about exactly how many nutrients they might have.
posted by penguin pie at 1:08 AM on April 7, 2022 [18 favorites]
I'd say you're worrying too much, and just enjoy your veggies. :)
I probably don't cook the healthiest meals, but I do cook enough with my air fryer and my microwave, and my cheap veggie mix, occasionally supplemented by runs to my local markets. I don't worry about nutritional preservation, and I should exercise more. :D
The problem I see is you're worried so much it's affecting how you enjoy your food. And that... is problematic.
posted by kschang at 1:26 AM on April 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
I probably don't cook the healthiest meals, but I do cook enough with my air fryer and my microwave, and my cheap veggie mix, occasionally supplemented by runs to my local markets. I don't worry about nutritional preservation, and I should exercise more. :D
The problem I see is you're worried so much it's affecting how you enjoy your food. And that... is problematic.
posted by kschang at 1:26 AM on April 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
I am an anxious person but I absolutely love food and cooking and all that jazz. Since you say you’re a picky eater, I wonder if some of your pickiness is actually a manifestation of your anxiety? For example, I am extremely picky about sleeping accommodations and it’s really just my general travel anxiety being like “you can’t sleep on a pull out couch, you should just stay home!” Of course, then I’m in a freaking five star hotel with artisanal pillows or whatever the hell, and my brain is STILL like “this mattress is TOO conforming to my body and I didn’t like the chocolate with turn down service, I should just stay home!” So anyway, my point is, maybe some of these blocks you are putting up for yourself are really more about your anxiety about food and nutrition in general.
I agree with the comment above about looking into orthorexia. I am not a fan of armchair diagnosing but I am a fan of picking and choosing coping techniques and reframing thoughts and situations based on wisdom from people with similar challenges, and you sure sound like the couple orthorexic people I’ve known in life. It’s not always about the healthiest mode of eating as it is about making rules to help you feel in control and then those rules get more and more out of hand. Everybody is different but I do think this is just the kind of thing you can and should talk to a counselor or therapist about, in addition to just trying to find enjoyable ways for you to have more vegetables.
Okay here is the food portion of my comment.
I love me some greens. Hardier greens are better cooked, I don’t care how many massaged kale salads I have had, I will always like low and slow cooked collards better. Try caramelizing a sweet onion in a pot, then add a heap of sliced garlic, some paprika and chili pepper if you like spicy, salt, and then piling in a ton of washed and chopped collards or curly kale. Pour in like two cups or so of vegetable stock, or if you like replace one of those with some canned chopped tomatoes. Cover, bring it to a boil, get the leaves wilted and mixed with the onion, and then turn it down to a simmer to cook for an hour or so. You can stir and taste and adjust seasoning as you go, and the collards will only get more and more tender with time, as long as you don’t let it dry out. The liquid that remains in the pot is really delicious, and great on grains or to dip bread in or to make a gravy to go on a protein. Chuck a can of beans in there and serve with cornbread and call it dinner.
And the thing is, all the vitamins and fiber and stuff are all still in there. Did you take anything out of the pot? No. Humans evolved the way we did in part because we began to cook our food. Our bodies are optimized to receive nutrients that have already been processed somewhat. A gorilla’s diet is just nonstop chewing and tough fiber. We need things like collards to be broken down to really get everything out of them.
I suggest for your soups switching out spinach for a green like chard or arugula. They stand up to heat better but don’t lose their flavor. Again, all the nutrition is there because you didn’t like, magically take out the vitamins from the soup and leave the rest behind.
As for fiber, remember there are two kinds of fiber, soluble and insoluble. A lot of yummy foods have good mixes of both, including a lot of crunchy lettuces and other salad ingredients like celery, peppers, cucumber, tomatoes, etc. I’m in the northern hemisphere so as local things start growing this spring and summer I am looking excitedly forward to salads. Fresh gem lettuce with asparagus and English peas and green goddess dressing, yum yum yum. Punchy herb tabbouleh with mint, parsley, dill, cilantro, cucumbers, tomatoes, bulgar, lemon, scallions, served with crispy pan fried chickpeas, so summery. Big romaine wedges with buttermilk dressing, local cucumbers and shaved rainbow carrots, outstanding with grilled food. Not everything needs to be tenderly cooked for hours. Pairing things in exciting, seasonal ways that feel bountiful and special is another way to get the love into those veggies and get you enthusiastic to eat them.
Cabbage is a solid all-rounder, by the way. Try keeping a Savoy cabbage in your fridge and just making thin slivers to pop on top of nearly any meal. It will add crunch, freshness, a lightly peppery flavor, and work with practically any cuisine. Tacos? Cabbage. Congee? Cabbage. Curry? Cabbage. Corn chowder? Cabbage. Advanced techniques include tossing it with lime juice, a little salt and sugar and cilantro or mint, and letting it sit for a while to quick pickle while you get the rest of dinner together. You can also use whole leaves to wrap nearly anything. Awesome with say, baked tofu and peanut sauce with some brown rice, or to cup egg salad, or lemony pilaf, or a shmear of cream cheese and chives.
Please remember that eating is an additive process. You are not canceling anything out with cheese, you are just also eating delicious cheese! It’s okay to bake the broccoli with cheese if it makes you excited to eat the broccoli. If it doesn’t, make another askme about broccoli and I’ll throw a bunch of ideas at you.
posted by Mizu at 2:38 AM on April 7, 2022 [10 favorites]
I agree with the comment above about looking into orthorexia. I am not a fan of armchair diagnosing but I am a fan of picking and choosing coping techniques and reframing thoughts and situations based on wisdom from people with similar challenges, and you sure sound like the couple orthorexic people I’ve known in life. It’s not always about the healthiest mode of eating as it is about making rules to help you feel in control and then those rules get more and more out of hand. Everybody is different but I do think this is just the kind of thing you can and should talk to a counselor or therapist about, in addition to just trying to find enjoyable ways for you to have more vegetables.
Okay here is the food portion of my comment.
I love me some greens. Hardier greens are better cooked, I don’t care how many massaged kale salads I have had, I will always like low and slow cooked collards better. Try caramelizing a sweet onion in a pot, then add a heap of sliced garlic, some paprika and chili pepper if you like spicy, salt, and then piling in a ton of washed and chopped collards or curly kale. Pour in like two cups or so of vegetable stock, or if you like replace one of those with some canned chopped tomatoes. Cover, bring it to a boil, get the leaves wilted and mixed with the onion, and then turn it down to a simmer to cook for an hour or so. You can stir and taste and adjust seasoning as you go, and the collards will only get more and more tender with time, as long as you don’t let it dry out. The liquid that remains in the pot is really delicious, and great on grains or to dip bread in or to make a gravy to go on a protein. Chuck a can of beans in there and serve with cornbread and call it dinner.
And the thing is, all the vitamins and fiber and stuff are all still in there. Did you take anything out of the pot? No. Humans evolved the way we did in part because we began to cook our food. Our bodies are optimized to receive nutrients that have already been processed somewhat. A gorilla’s diet is just nonstop chewing and tough fiber. We need things like collards to be broken down to really get everything out of them.
I suggest for your soups switching out spinach for a green like chard or arugula. They stand up to heat better but don’t lose their flavor. Again, all the nutrition is there because you didn’t like, magically take out the vitamins from the soup and leave the rest behind.
As for fiber, remember there are two kinds of fiber, soluble and insoluble. A lot of yummy foods have good mixes of both, including a lot of crunchy lettuces and other salad ingredients like celery, peppers, cucumber, tomatoes, etc. I’m in the northern hemisphere so as local things start growing this spring and summer I am looking excitedly forward to salads. Fresh gem lettuce with asparagus and English peas and green goddess dressing, yum yum yum. Punchy herb tabbouleh with mint, parsley, dill, cilantro, cucumbers, tomatoes, bulgar, lemon, scallions, served with crispy pan fried chickpeas, so summery. Big romaine wedges with buttermilk dressing, local cucumbers and shaved rainbow carrots, outstanding with grilled food. Not everything needs to be tenderly cooked for hours. Pairing things in exciting, seasonal ways that feel bountiful and special is another way to get the love into those veggies and get you enthusiastic to eat them.
Cabbage is a solid all-rounder, by the way. Try keeping a Savoy cabbage in your fridge and just making thin slivers to pop on top of nearly any meal. It will add crunch, freshness, a lightly peppery flavor, and work with practically any cuisine. Tacos? Cabbage. Congee? Cabbage. Curry? Cabbage. Corn chowder? Cabbage. Advanced techniques include tossing it with lime juice, a little salt and sugar and cilantro or mint, and letting it sit for a while to quick pickle while you get the rest of dinner together. You can also use whole leaves to wrap nearly anything. Awesome with say, baked tofu and peanut sauce with some brown rice, or to cup egg salad, or lemony pilaf, or a shmear of cream cheese and chives.
Please remember that eating is an additive process. You are not canceling anything out with cheese, you are just also eating delicious cheese! It’s okay to bake the broccoli with cheese if it makes you excited to eat the broccoli. If it doesn’t, make another askme about broccoli and I’ll throw a bunch of ideas at you.
posted by Mizu at 2:38 AM on April 7, 2022 [10 favorites]
I'm going to address just a couple things:
When I make homemade soups, I worry about whether I'm cooking spinach or broccoli in a way that retains as much of their nutrients as possible while making them yummy and palatable without just chucking them in raw.
Here's the thing about cooking vegetables in soup: anything nutrients you "cook out" of the vegetables go into the soup's broth, and...you're eating the broth, right? Because it's soup. So...you're still getting the same nutrients, they just moved into the broth. So yay.
When I make steamed veggies, like broccoli or zucchini, I like to cover them with some cheese and breadcrumbs and broil them for a bit until the cheese is delicious and brown. Does the cheese cancel things out?
Only if you're putting like an entire block of cheese on five pieces of broccoli, I'd say. Plus cheese has calcium and other good things itself.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:07 AM on April 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
When I make homemade soups, I worry about whether I'm cooking spinach or broccoli in a way that retains as much of their nutrients as possible while making them yummy and palatable without just chucking them in raw.
Here's the thing about cooking vegetables in soup: anything nutrients you "cook out" of the vegetables go into the soup's broth, and...you're eating the broth, right? Because it's soup. So...you're still getting the same nutrients, they just moved into the broth. So yay.
When I make steamed veggies, like broccoli or zucchini, I like to cover them with some cheese and breadcrumbs and broil them for a bit until the cheese is delicious and brown. Does the cheese cancel things out?
Only if you're putting like an entire block of cheese on five pieces of broccoli, I'd say. Plus cheese has calcium and other good things itself.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:07 AM on April 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
Some really great advice above already. I just wanted to add that fruit is also great for fibre, vitamins, antioxidants. So maybe you'll have a day where you are struggling with vegetables, but can manage to eat an apple.
Pickled and preserved vegetables are also handy. Add a sprinkle of sliced olives, or a side of sauerkraut, or eat a pickle with cheese. Even ketchup is a great source of lycopene!
posted by kinddieserzeit at 4:14 AM on April 7, 2022
Pickled and preserved vegetables are also handy. Add a sprinkle of sliced olives, or a side of sauerkraut, or eat a pickle with cheese. Even ketchup is a great source of lycopene!
posted by kinddieserzeit at 4:14 AM on April 7, 2022
This seems like a perfect opportunity for the quote, “if a thing is worth doing, it’s worth doing badly.” Any and all vegetables you eat have value, so don’t let a worry about whether you’re optimizing them prevent you from eating them at all.
posted by cali59 at 4:50 AM on April 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by cali59 at 4:50 AM on April 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
I eat my greens regularly and love them. I mostly prefer cooked vegetables over raw and I often make
- Stirfried greens with garlic. I really like Chinese greens like pea shoots, bok choy, and a choy but the same techniques work great with chard, beet greens, spinach, and other robust leafy greens. Stronger greens like collards and gai lan also do well when braised in a savory broth.
- Green beans, whole sugar snap peas, or baby broccoli lightly blanched in very salty boiling water and served with a vinaigrette or citrus-based dressing. Orange and chopped olives go really nicely with broccoli.
- Roasted winter squash and root vegetables. Sweet potatoes are tasty with coconut oil.
- Steamed parsnips or cauliflower mashed with herbs and a lot (seriously, a lot) of butter
- Summer squash sauteed with a pesto sauce
I also enjoy some fermented veg like kimchi and sauerkraut. Slices of raw bell pepper are great for dipping in hummus or a yogurt sauce, nice and crunchy.
I think spinach often does not hold up well in soups (like you say it can easily go from undercooked to slimy), especially when reheated. Consider using heartier greens instead.
Sometimes vegetables are available with better quality in frozen or canned forms rather than fresh. This is especially true for frozen spinach and peas and for canned tomatoes.
Unless you're constantly over-boiling all your veggies into a gray mush or something you are not cooking them wrong. Oil, butter, and cheese don't "cancel out" the benefits of the veg, they carry flavor, improve texture, and increase satiety. Stews and soups don't make nutrients disappear, they release flavor and make some things easier to digest. If you really like vegetable juices go ahead and get yourself a juicer. It seems like you are hung up on needing to eat vegetables in a way that appears extra healthy or virtuous, but in the long term, the best way to support your health is by eating a variety of vegetables prepared in different ways you find enjoyable.
posted by 4rtemis at 5:25 AM on April 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
- Stirfried greens with garlic. I really like Chinese greens like pea shoots, bok choy, and a choy but the same techniques work great with chard, beet greens, spinach, and other robust leafy greens. Stronger greens like collards and gai lan also do well when braised in a savory broth.
- Green beans, whole sugar snap peas, or baby broccoli lightly blanched in very salty boiling water and served with a vinaigrette or citrus-based dressing. Orange and chopped olives go really nicely with broccoli.
- Roasted winter squash and root vegetables. Sweet potatoes are tasty with coconut oil.
- Steamed parsnips or cauliflower mashed with herbs and a lot (seriously, a lot) of butter
- Summer squash sauteed with a pesto sauce
I also enjoy some fermented veg like kimchi and sauerkraut. Slices of raw bell pepper are great for dipping in hummus or a yogurt sauce, nice and crunchy.
I think spinach often does not hold up well in soups (like you say it can easily go from undercooked to slimy), especially when reheated. Consider using heartier greens instead.
Sometimes vegetables are available with better quality in frozen or canned forms rather than fresh. This is especially true for frozen spinach and peas and for canned tomatoes.
Unless you're constantly over-boiling all your veggies into a gray mush or something you are not cooking them wrong. Oil, butter, and cheese don't "cancel out" the benefits of the veg, they carry flavor, improve texture, and increase satiety. Stews and soups don't make nutrients disappear, they release flavor and make some things easier to digest. If you really like vegetable juices go ahead and get yourself a juicer. It seems like you are hung up on needing to eat vegetables in a way that appears extra healthy or virtuous, but in the long term, the best way to support your health is by eating a variety of vegetables prepared in different ways you find enjoyable.
posted by 4rtemis at 5:25 AM on April 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
You don't eat meat and you're getting some protein from cheese; that's good. Sugar is pretty bad for you, so that's the thing I'd limit. Personally, I love vegetables, but vegetable prep, not so much, so I've been using frozen veg. like cauliflower, spinach, peas, and they're so easy, and the same nutritionally.
i_am_joe's_spleen's comment is excellent. You eat pretty well, but you mentioned gut health. Whole grains are great but if you want better gut health, vegetables, fruit, and some fermented foods are a big help. Try adding some kimchi to your grain bowls.
posted by theora55 at 5:30 AM on April 7, 2022
i_am_joe's_spleen's comment is excellent. You eat pretty well, but you mentioned gut health. Whole grains are great but if you want better gut health, vegetables, fruit, and some fermented foods are a big help. Try adding some kimchi to your grain bowls.
posted by theora55 at 5:30 AM on April 7, 2022
I'm not a fan of most raw vegetables, a lot of which has to do with taste and more recently also to do with the diminishing number of functional molars to chew them up with.
One positive to keep in mind is that when you cook vegetables, you can generally consume a bigger volume than you can raw. I made a stewed celery thing the other day involving an entire stalk of celery and about 1.5 cups of marinara sauce (which, having home-canned marinara sauce, I know represents about 2 lbs of raw tomatoes), and it all cooked down to about 3 cups/4 servings worth of end product...from an input of 4+ pounds of raw vegetables that I can't/won't eat at all raw (and yes, I stirred in 3 oz of cream cheese when it was all stewed down!)
For spinach in soup, have you tried using the frozen chopped spinach in a box? Here again, a little 10 oz box of frozen spinach is equal to 10-12 cups (1 lb) of fresh spinach--that's like 5 or 6 big spinach salads--for half the price. And you can slip that box of frozen spinach into a lot of things like soup or pasta sauce and not even have it come out tasting predominantly "spinachy."
posted by drlith at 6:04 AM on April 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
One positive to keep in mind is that when you cook vegetables, you can generally consume a bigger volume than you can raw. I made a stewed celery thing the other day involving an entire stalk of celery and about 1.5 cups of marinara sauce (which, having home-canned marinara sauce, I know represents about 2 lbs of raw tomatoes), and it all cooked down to about 3 cups/4 servings worth of end product...from an input of 4+ pounds of raw vegetables that I can't/won't eat at all raw (and yes, I stirred in 3 oz of cream cheese when it was all stewed down!)
For spinach in soup, have you tried using the frozen chopped spinach in a box? Here again, a little 10 oz box of frozen spinach is equal to 10-12 cups (1 lb) of fresh spinach--that's like 5 or 6 big spinach salads--for half the price. And you can slip that box of frozen spinach into a lot of things like soup or pasta sauce and not even have it come out tasting predominantly "spinachy."
posted by drlith at 6:04 AM on April 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
First of all, it is impossible for you to become malnourished in this day and age if you're eating lots of vegetables in addition to macro nutrients, no matter what form you eat the veggies in. Literally impossible. (Barring actual disease and tapeworms.)
So if you find yourself anxious and concerned about malnourishment from overcooking veggies, you will want to see a doctor for anxiety or for food-related psychological issues.
Secondly, if you are going to be a vegetarian, I would strongly recommend that you pick traditional vegetarian cuisines as your model for food habits.
(A) Cuisines prioritize deliciousness so you're going to be forced to pay attention to taste and start enjoying your food.
(B) You can trust in the empirically proven (so. very. proven!!!! much more solidly proven than any aspect of modern nutrition science!!!) hypothesis that this way of eating is healthful for humans.
Stop trying to reinvent this particular wheel. And stop listening to people who tell you it's necessary to reinvent this particular wheel using their newfangled rules as your starting point. You can let yourself trust the thing which has worked for centuries for millions of other humans.
posted by MiraK at 7:40 AM on April 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
So if you find yourself anxious and concerned about malnourishment from overcooking veggies, you will want to see a doctor for anxiety or for food-related psychological issues.
Secondly, if you are going to be a vegetarian, I would strongly recommend that you pick traditional vegetarian cuisines as your model for food habits.
(A) Cuisines prioritize deliciousness so you're going to be forced to pay attention to taste and start enjoying your food.
(B) You can trust in the empirically proven (so. very. proven!!!! much more solidly proven than any aspect of modern nutrition science!!!) hypothesis that this way of eating is healthful for humans.
Stop trying to reinvent this particular wheel. And stop listening to people who tell you it's necessary to reinvent this particular wheel using their newfangled rules as your starting point. You can let yourself trust the thing which has worked for centuries for millions of other humans.
posted by MiraK at 7:40 AM on April 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
(The following is how I get out of my own head when I’m stuck in an anxious loop like you’re describing.) Even if your fears were totally accurate, do you really think that incorrectly prepared veggies would have a worse nutritional impact on your body than eating no veggies? Because that’s the key for me: you’ll never rule out the possibility that some part of your cooking process negatively impacts the veggies’ nutrient payload, and ruminating on this dilemma is directly causing you to not eat veggies, so your practical choice is imperfect vs. none, not imperfect vs. perfect.
posted by theotherdurassister at 7:58 AM on April 7, 2022
posted by theotherdurassister at 7:58 AM on April 7, 2022
Harvard Health:
posted by spamandkimchi at 9:45 AM on April 7, 2022
The cooking method that best retains nutrients is one that cooks quickly, heats food for the shortest amount of time, and uses as little liquid as possible. Microwaving meets those criteria. Using the microwave with a small amount of water essentially steams food from the inside out. That keeps in more vitamins and minerals than almost any other cooking method and shows microwave food can indeed be healthy.To address the juicer question, I am guessing that some of your gut's hankering for veggies is the hankering for FIBER and not just vitamins/minerals. Because of that, you should continue how you are doing, with a mix of preparation methods for your veggies (including your raw carrot snacks!) rather than putting the majority of your vegetable consumption into the juicer.
But let's not get too lost in the details. Vegetables, pretty much any way you prepare them, are good for you, and most of us don't eat enough of them. And is the microwave oven good or bad? The microwave is a marvel of engineering, a miracle of convenience — and sometimes nutritionally advantageous to boot.
posted by spamandkimchi at 9:45 AM on April 7, 2022
Eating veggies is always good for you! Veggies are better than eating literally anything else a human can eat. Do whatever it takes to make them yummy, and don’t overthink it at all. You will ALWAYS be better off having eaten a veggie than not.
Gently, your thinking about food sounds very anxious, preoccupied, and kinda disordered. Don’t compare yourself to some Instagram vegan who goes on and on about raw cold pressed whatever. Compare yourself to my friend Gord who ate such an abysmal diet, completely lacking in veggies, that he gave himself gout at 30. It’s a very attainable bar to exceed.
Eat those veggies frozen, canned, cooked, microwaved, boiled to a limp mush, puréed, covered in cheese, heck, even dusted with cocaine, and they’re still very very good for you! Just eat lots of different things and try to enjoy food and eating rather than seeing it as a site for perfection and worry.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 12:40 PM on April 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
Gently, your thinking about food sounds very anxious, preoccupied, and kinda disordered. Don’t compare yourself to some Instagram vegan who goes on and on about raw cold pressed whatever. Compare yourself to my friend Gord who ate such an abysmal diet, completely lacking in veggies, that he gave himself gout at 30. It’s a very attainable bar to exceed.
Eat those veggies frozen, canned, cooked, microwaved, boiled to a limp mush, puréed, covered in cheese, heck, even dusted with cocaine, and they’re still very very good for you! Just eat lots of different things and try to enjoy food and eating rather than seeing it as a site for perfection and worry.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 12:40 PM on April 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
There's so much good advice here, go with it.
The only thing I want to add is about spinach, because I think spinach is my favorite green vegetable. Spinach is tasty, extremely healthy, fragrant, goes well with dairy, and did I mention it is green?
In the last decade (at least) we have stopped seeing fresh fully mature spinach in the supermarkets. Instead we get "baby spinach", which tastes of nothing, has limited nutritional value and yes, becomes slimy and sad when cooked more than a minute. I do think lightly steamed baby spinach stirred with a ton of butter can be pretty and even nice to eat in some contexts.
But for cooked spinach, for instance in soup, buy frozen spinach. Throw the frozen balls of spinach into your minestrone along with the liquid after sautéing the harder vegetables and let it simmer for at least 20 minutes. This makes it soft and delicious and because it's a soup, the vitamins and minerals stay in your meal. Sprinkle with tons of parmesan. Or make saag paneer. Spinach and cheese were made for each other. I very regularly make a stew/ soup by combining a clove of garlic, lightly sautéed, with a can of crushed tomatoes, a can of (preferably white) beans, 4-5 balls of frozen spinach, oregano, salt and pepper. Maybe a bit of chili flakes. Cook for 20-30 minutes. Add water if you want a more soupy consistency. Maybe add feta cheese for the last five minutes.
Or sautée an onion and a clove of garlic in olive oil. Add a bit of chili flakes, then add a squash cut into cubes and all the spinach you like. I like 500 grams. let it simmer a bit with the aromatics, then add 500 ml of vegetable stock. Let simmer gently for 20-30 minutes, season to taste with salt and pepper, then blend with a stick blender till it is completely smooth. You can add cream or butter to taste, but it isn't necessary.
posted by mumimor at 1:56 PM on April 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
The only thing I want to add is about spinach, because I think spinach is my favorite green vegetable. Spinach is tasty, extremely healthy, fragrant, goes well with dairy, and did I mention it is green?
In the last decade (at least) we have stopped seeing fresh fully mature spinach in the supermarkets. Instead we get "baby spinach", which tastes of nothing, has limited nutritional value and yes, becomes slimy and sad when cooked more than a minute. I do think lightly steamed baby spinach stirred with a ton of butter can be pretty and even nice to eat in some contexts.
But for cooked spinach, for instance in soup, buy frozen spinach. Throw the frozen balls of spinach into your minestrone along with the liquid after sautéing the harder vegetables and let it simmer for at least 20 minutes. This makes it soft and delicious and because it's a soup, the vitamins and minerals stay in your meal. Sprinkle with tons of parmesan. Or make saag paneer. Spinach and cheese were made for each other. I very regularly make a stew/ soup by combining a clove of garlic, lightly sautéed, with a can of crushed tomatoes, a can of (preferably white) beans, 4-5 balls of frozen spinach, oregano, salt and pepper. Maybe a bit of chili flakes. Cook for 20-30 minutes. Add water if you want a more soupy consistency. Maybe add feta cheese for the last five minutes.
Or sautée an onion and a clove of garlic in olive oil. Add a bit of chili flakes, then add a squash cut into cubes and all the spinach you like. I like 500 grams. let it simmer a bit with the aromatics, then add 500 ml of vegetable stock. Let simmer gently for 20-30 minutes, season to taste with salt and pepper, then blend with a stick blender till it is completely smooth. You can add cream or butter to taste, but it isn't necessary.
posted by mumimor at 1:56 PM on April 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
Spinach is definitely healthier when cooked (calcium and iron aren't bioavailable in raw spinach), and I wonder if kale or collards (brassicas) are similar. (I tend to them instead of spinach because they stay firmer when cooked and my partner prefers them).
I like my kale and collards lightly cooked in stews or soups, so I actually add them at the last minute. When the stew is just about done, I turn off the heat, add the chopped and rinsed kale/collards, cover it and leave it for 5-10 minutes. This wilts and softens the greens without overcooking them. It also works well with spinach, though you may need to put in frozen spinach a bit earlier if it's in a block, just to get it to fully melt.
posted by jb at 2:52 PM on April 7, 2022
I like my kale and collards lightly cooked in stews or soups, so I actually add them at the last minute. When the stew is just about done, I turn off the heat, add the chopped and rinsed kale/collards, cover it and leave it for 5-10 minutes. This wilts and softens the greens without overcooking them. It also works well with spinach, though you may need to put in frozen spinach a bit earlier if it's in a block, just to get it to fully melt.
posted by jb at 2:52 PM on April 7, 2022
For more veggie joy, I can't recommend Emily Nunn's Department of Salad newsletter enough.
Eat veggies that taste good, and eat them in good health.
posted by cyndigo at 3:03 PM on April 7, 2022
Eat veggies that taste good, and eat them in good health.
posted by cyndigo at 3:03 PM on April 7, 2022
You might try sous vide / immersion cooking. For example: Tomatoes are off the charts tasty, and you don't lose any liquid.
posted by credulous at 6:16 PM on April 7, 2022
posted by credulous at 6:16 PM on April 7, 2022
Response by poster: I have been eating veggies with reckless abandon since posting this Ask. Thank you for helping me discover how to do that without overthinking.
posted by The Adventure Begins at 9:51 PM on April 28, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by The Adventure Begins at 9:51 PM on April 28, 2022 [5 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Cheese is not an anti-nutrient. It doesn't "cancel out" anything. In fact the fats in the cheese might help absorption of fat-soluble vitamins etc from the vegetables...
Microwaves are just delivering heat at the end of the day and despite what cranks would tell you, they aren't making your vegetables less nutritious than if (eg) you steamed them. In fact since there is less loss into cooking water, it's probably a superior way to cook from some perspectives.
It sounds like you think you have to eat vegetables in some ideal way to make it ok to eat them at all, and this is not a helpful way to think. All prep methods are trade-offs, so the way to maximise the benefits is to have a variety of things prepared a variety of ways. If your favourite way with your favourite thing isn't quite as good for a particular nutrient, that's ok... just eat more of it.
Please do feel free to enjoy eating the foods you like. Food is for pleasure as well as for fuel.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 10:52 PM on April 6, 2022 [72 favorites]