Elderly parent died suddenly, need to figure out finances.
March 22, 2022 8:20 AM Subscribe
Parent just died, dealing with grief and untangling complicated financial situation. Need scripts for talking with banks/creditors + recommendations for next steps.
My family lives in New York State and my elderly mom passed away several days ago of a sudden illness that was diagnosed less than a week before. She was in the process of making a will; the will was signed in front of notaries but was not submitted to the courts at time of death. My mother did not have life insurance and refused to get life insurance when her kids begged her to.
My father is having a mental health crisis and is not up to the task of organizing her paperwork or speaking with representatives from financial institutions at this time. My mother leaves behind extensive credit card debt and my parents only have joint accounts together; my father has no checking or savings account solely in his name. My parents were already having severe financial problems before she was hospitalized and recently got a new mortgage on their home at very unfavorable terms.
We are working on getting my father help for his mental health crisis. I need help taking immediate first steps to help my father deal with the challenging aftermath.
My asks:
1) Are there any scripts my father should use in speaking with banks/creditors? He has trouble articulating his thought processes and scripts would help greatly.
2) Are there any organizations that give resources/advice/referrals to people in our situation? My father is in a bad financial state and I'm not even sure he can afford a lawyer.
3) What are the next steps my siblings and I should take in this situation?
My family lives in New York State and my elderly mom passed away several days ago of a sudden illness that was diagnosed less than a week before. She was in the process of making a will; the will was signed in front of notaries but was not submitted to the courts at time of death. My mother did not have life insurance and refused to get life insurance when her kids begged her to.
My father is having a mental health crisis and is not up to the task of organizing her paperwork or speaking with representatives from financial institutions at this time. My mother leaves behind extensive credit card debt and my parents only have joint accounts together; my father has no checking or savings account solely in his name. My parents were already having severe financial problems before she was hospitalized and recently got a new mortgage on their home at very unfavorable terms.
We are working on getting my father help for his mental health crisis. I need help taking immediate first steps to help my father deal with the challenging aftermath.
My asks:
1) Are there any scripts my father should use in speaking with banks/creditors? He has trouble articulating his thought processes and scripts would help greatly.
2) Are there any organizations that give resources/advice/referrals to people in our situation? My father is in a bad financial state and I'm not even sure he can afford a lawyer.
3) What are the next steps my siblings and I should take in this situation?
I am sorry for your loss. My only suggestion (I know it sounds simplistic and perhaps a little morbid) is to get your hands on a couple dozen death certificates. Here is a link to do that in New York state. Banks, credit card issuers, etc., will be requesting it.
posted by John Borrowman at 9:28 AM on March 22, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by John Borrowman at 9:28 AM on March 22, 2022 [5 favorites]
Hey, first of all I'm so sorry about your mom and I know this is really hard and overwhelming.
But, as who has gone through this recently for a deceased spouse, in terms of financials I don't think your father is necessarily much worse off now that he was before your mom's death and there might not be much you need to do right this second, so feel free to take a breath and grieve.
Keeping their money in joint accounts is for the most part a good thing - it means that your father can legally keep on using those accounts. He just needs to let the bank know about your mother's death so that she can be removed from the account (you don't have to do this, like, TODAY but you should get to it within the next few weeks if you can). You/he will need to provide the bank a copy of the death certificate. Then the bank(s) will either convert the accounts to just his name or open new accounts in his name.
Likewise if they owned the house as tenants by the entirety (very likely) then you don't really need to do anything right away there either - at some point before the house is sold you will need to file a copy of the death certificate with the property registry or something like that.
If the credit card debt is solely in your mother's name, your father is likely not liable for it. Someone will need to report the death to the credit card companies.
I wouldn't worry too much about the will; it doesn't sound like your mother had much in the way of assets. My husband died in 2020 and I'm only just getting around to dealing with his will via Voluntary Administration for small estates (I'm actually in Massachusetts but I linked to the NY State version). You will need a list of her debts (debts in her name only, not jointly held with your father) and assets (again, assets she held in her name only).
All of this will keep for a few weeks at least. You do not need to deal with it today. I'm very sorry for your loss.
(Oh also, yes, get some death certificates, but 1) this doesn't need to happen today and 2) I just scanned in one copy of my husband's death certificate and sent it to all his banks, etc., digitally; I only needed like three actual copies.)
posted by mskyle at 9:30 AM on March 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
But, as who has gone through this recently for a deceased spouse, in terms of financials I don't think your father is necessarily much worse off now that he was before your mom's death and there might not be much you need to do right this second, so feel free to take a breath and grieve.
Keeping their money in joint accounts is for the most part a good thing - it means that your father can legally keep on using those accounts. He just needs to let the bank know about your mother's death so that she can be removed from the account (you don't have to do this, like, TODAY but you should get to it within the next few weeks if you can). You/he will need to provide the bank a copy of the death certificate. Then the bank(s) will either convert the accounts to just his name or open new accounts in his name.
Likewise if they owned the house as tenants by the entirety (very likely) then you don't really need to do anything right away there either - at some point before the house is sold you will need to file a copy of the death certificate with the property registry or something like that.
If the credit card debt is solely in your mother's name, your father is likely not liable for it. Someone will need to report the death to the credit card companies.
I wouldn't worry too much about the will; it doesn't sound like your mother had much in the way of assets. My husband died in 2020 and I'm only just getting around to dealing with his will via Voluntary Administration for small estates (I'm actually in Massachusetts but I linked to the NY State version). You will need a list of her debts (debts in her name only, not jointly held with your father) and assets (again, assets she held in her name only).
All of this will keep for a few weeks at least. You do not need to deal with it today. I'm very sorry for your loss.
(Oh also, yes, get some death certificates, but 1) this doesn't need to happen today and 2) I just scanned in one copy of my husband's death certificate and sent it to all his banks, etc., digitally; I only needed like three actual copies.)
posted by mskyle at 9:30 AM on March 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
Just to add to the above - your dad should not take any responsibility or make any payments on any debt that is not joint - i.e. the credit card sounds like something where the creditors will be keen to have him sign something but he should not. If he has a card that was linked to the account, that doesn't necessarily make him liable - but he should NOT use it again.
So basically, he should treat any debt that was solely in your mother's name as nothing to do with him - don't access it, don't make payments on it.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:33 AM on March 22, 2022 [6 favorites]
So basically, he should treat any debt that was solely in your mother's name as nothing to do with him - don't access it, don't make payments on it.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:33 AM on March 22, 2022 [6 favorites]
Also, I'm so sorry for your loss.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:34 AM on March 22, 2022
posted by warriorqueen at 9:34 AM on March 22, 2022
I'm very sorry for your loss.
I am not your lawyer, but ordinarily in NY state there is no need to "submit" a will anywhere prior to the death of the testator, assuming it was otherwise validly executed.
posted by praemunire at 9:34 AM on March 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
I am not your lawyer, but ordinarily in NY state there is no need to "submit" a will anywhere prior to the death of the testator, assuming it was otherwise validly executed.
posted by praemunire at 9:34 AM on March 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
(It's also possible your father may be able to find assistance through NY's Office for the Aging.)
posted by praemunire at 9:36 AM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by praemunire at 9:36 AM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
in terms of financials I don't think your father is necessarily much worse off now that he was before your mom's death and there might not be much you need to do right this second, so feel free to take a breath and grieve.
Co-signed. I am really sorry this sounds like quite a shock.
One thing that was helpful for me when my father died suddenly was realizing that a lot of the stuff I needed to deal with could often be managed in ways that were.... slightly sketchy but very effective. That is, I could call places like the cable company AS him and change the contract to something that cost less because the cable company didn't care that he was dead, just wanted to cover their own ass. So if your mom had some outstanding things that it would be helpful to END NOW (magazine subscriptions, online accounts. I got so much static trying to cancel magazine subscriptions as not-the-person that I just started calling as the person) someone who sounds female could just handle that.
In terms of your dad, I am not up on the laws for NY State but if he's on the joint accounts he can still use those accounts. I would, as a kid, maybe log in to them if he'll share the info with you and see which things are set to autopay. Sometimes people set up a bunch of autopay stuff and it makes situations like these so much easier.
The biggest deal may be the mortgage. When my father died, he had a mortgage and the house conveyed to me and my sister. In your case, the house is probably still owned by your dad, but check. My lawyer said that it was possible (though unlikely) that they bank could have, when the house conveyed, made us pay off the mortgage, so that is a question I would ask. So I'd make a spreadsheet, maybe you and your sibling, of a few things/categories
- things legally that need to happen (get the will sorted, get death certificates, plan a funeral or other arrangements, notify family members and friends, write an obit)
- things to cut loose or shut down (magazine subscriptions, online accounts--we learned SO much from my dad's email in terms of what things he had etc)
- things that need finessing (getting bills into your dad's name or your names, helping your dad with mental health crisis, making a plan forward about debt and house)
Also someone should maybe contact the IRS and file an extension for your folks' taxes so it's one less thing you need to deal with. I'd also consider seeing if you and your sibling can make some of these calls for your dad. Right now, the main thing is just to keep the lights on and see if a few things you can handle now will give you some breathing room to deal with the rest of this. I'm so sorry you're going through this.
posted by jessamyn at 10:18 AM on March 22, 2022 [6 favorites]
Co-signed. I am really sorry this sounds like quite a shock.
One thing that was helpful for me when my father died suddenly was realizing that a lot of the stuff I needed to deal with could often be managed in ways that were.... slightly sketchy but very effective. That is, I could call places like the cable company AS him and change the contract to something that cost less because the cable company didn't care that he was dead, just wanted to cover their own ass. So if your mom had some outstanding things that it would be helpful to END NOW (magazine subscriptions, online accounts. I got so much static trying to cancel magazine subscriptions as not-the-person that I just started calling as the person) someone who sounds female could just handle that.
In terms of your dad, I am not up on the laws for NY State but if he's on the joint accounts he can still use those accounts. I would, as a kid, maybe log in to them if he'll share the info with you and see which things are set to autopay. Sometimes people set up a bunch of autopay stuff and it makes situations like these so much easier.
The biggest deal may be the mortgage. When my father died, he had a mortgage and the house conveyed to me and my sister. In your case, the house is probably still owned by your dad, but check. My lawyer said that it was possible (though unlikely) that they bank could have, when the house conveyed, made us pay off the mortgage, so that is a question I would ask. So I'd make a spreadsheet, maybe you and your sibling, of a few things/categories
- things legally that need to happen (get the will sorted, get death certificates, plan a funeral or other arrangements, notify family members and friends, write an obit)
- things to cut loose or shut down (magazine subscriptions, online accounts--we learned SO much from my dad's email in terms of what things he had etc)
- things that need finessing (getting bills into your dad's name or your names, helping your dad with mental health crisis, making a plan forward about debt and house)
Also someone should maybe contact the IRS and file an extension for your folks' taxes so it's one less thing you need to deal with. I'd also consider seeing if you and your sibling can make some of these calls for your dad. Right now, the main thing is just to keep the lights on and see if a few things you can handle now will give you some breathing room to deal with the rest of this. I'm so sorry you're going through this.
posted by jessamyn at 10:18 AM on March 22, 2022 [6 favorites]
Something that might be relevant -
When my dad died his wife, who thought the credit cards were in both names were actually only in his, using only his credit. A user card was issued that had her name on it, but in actuality her personal credit had been made irrelevant. She dutifully called to inform Amex and MasterCard of his death, and they immediately canceled the cards, leaving her unexpectedly with no cards at all. It got sorted out later, and she was able to open her own credit accounts, but it left her in the lurch and without credit cards immediately after his death. Before your dad notifies all these accounts, it might be a good idea to find out in whose name the accounts were actually opened.
posted by citygirl at 1:12 PM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
When my dad died his wife, who thought the credit cards were in both names were actually only in his, using only his credit. A user card was issued that had her name on it, but in actuality her personal credit had been made irrelevant. She dutifully called to inform Amex and MasterCard of his death, and they immediately canceled the cards, leaving her unexpectedly with no cards at all. It got sorted out later, and she was able to open her own credit accounts, but it left her in the lurch and without credit cards immediately after his death. Before your dad notifies all these accounts, it might be a good idea to find out in whose name the accounts were actually opened.
posted by citygirl at 1:12 PM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Also, this is only sort of relevant to your question but you may have people (both in your orbit and your folks') who will be cognizant of your grief and making offers of help. If you feel like you can cognitively handle this, give those people small, discrete jobs that they could do which would help you with some of the stuff you'll have to manage in the coming months. Suggestions
- Canceling magazine subscriptions and upcoming appointments, just a bunch of annoying phone calls that likely anyone could do. Script: "I've made a list of seven magazines mom had that need cancelling, can you call these people and cancel these?" My partner did this for my mom's 15-or-so magazines and it was a kindness.
- Maybe some food or other short-term help for you and your sibling (or dad) for things that require some spoons to do if those will be in short supply. Script: "I've been running around so much trying to help dad with his crisis I could really use a lasagna or some other multi-day meal delivered to the house." Alt script: "Mom did most of the cooking at home, could you maybe make up some microwaveable meals he could have for dinner for a few nights?"
- If your dad is truly having a difficult time, having people who could be with him or take him to appointments. Script: "Dad has an appointment with an intake counselor for the mental health clinic on DATE/TIME. Would you be free to pick him up at home, take him there and take him home and make him lunch?"
Depending how your dad is doing, and where he's living, signing him up for something like Meals on Wheels might make some basic sustenance problems a little simpler.
posted by jessamyn at 1:36 PM on March 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
- Canceling magazine subscriptions and upcoming appointments, just a bunch of annoying phone calls that likely anyone could do. Script: "I've made a list of seven magazines mom had that need cancelling, can you call these people and cancel these?" My partner did this for my mom's 15-or-so magazines and it was a kindness.
- Maybe some food or other short-term help for you and your sibling (or dad) for things that require some spoons to do if those will be in short supply. Script: "I've been running around so much trying to help dad with his crisis I could really use a lasagna or some other multi-day meal delivered to the house." Alt script: "Mom did most of the cooking at home, could you maybe make up some microwaveable meals he could have for dinner for a few nights?"
- If your dad is truly having a difficult time, having people who could be with him or take him to appointments. Script: "Dad has an appointment with an intake counselor for the mental health clinic on DATE/TIME. Would you be free to pick him up at home, take him there and take him home and make him lunch?"
Depending how your dad is doing, and where he's living, signing him up for something like Meals on Wheels might make some basic sustenance problems a little simpler.
posted by jessamyn at 1:36 PM on March 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'm so sorry for your loss. I'll be following this thread, as I'm in New York and my 85-year-old mother has been in the hospital for two months and my stepdad can't offer a lot of help. Take care. You don't have to do everything at once.
posted by AJaffe at 3:07 PM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by AJaffe at 3:07 PM on March 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
I have read all of these responses and see none that recommend consulting a lawyer.
Retaining a lawyer to do a lot of things for your father could be costly. Paying for an hour of a lawyer's time to give you direction and the initial advice would cost a couple hundred dollars but be very worth the money in terms of advice and reassurance. From the description, there may not actually be much, or anything, for a lawyer to do, except the following.
The second recommendation has also not yet been made, but the lawyer will: have your father sign a power of attorney naming you as his agent so that you can do what he cannot do or does not want to handle.
posted by yclipse at 2:35 AM on March 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
Retaining a lawyer to do a lot of things for your father could be costly. Paying for an hour of a lawyer's time to give you direction and the initial advice would cost a couple hundred dollars but be very worth the money in terms of advice and reassurance. From the description, there may not actually be much, or anything, for a lawyer to do, except the following.
The second recommendation has also not yet been made, but the lawyer will: have your father sign a power of attorney naming you as his agent so that you can do what he cannot do or does not want to handle.
posted by yclipse at 2:35 AM on March 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
It is possible that your mother's will was validly executed. In my (non-New York) jurisdiction, a will need not be filed with a court until it is admitted to probate by the personal representative after the decedent's death. The validity of the will in my jurisdiction depends on whether certain procedures and protocols were followed in the creation and witnessing of that will when it was signed and dated. It is entirely possible that New York differs in this respect, but this certainly would be something to investigate.
This sounds incredibly difficult. I'm sorry for your loss.
posted by cheapskatebay at 9:25 AM on March 22, 2022 [4 favorites]