What are legal considerations for death of a foreign national in USA?
March 11, 2022 7:25 PM Subscribe
CW: Suicide
Someone very close to me successfully completed suicide last night. This person was 25, and in the USA on a student visa legally. They are from Kazakhstan and they wish to remain in the USA for their burial. More below.
As mentioned, this person is by all definitions legally an adult, and they wrote a letter explicitly outlining their desire for their remains to be buried or interred here in the USA, and NOT Kazakhstan. They were legally here on a student visa, and I have contacted their university to inform them. (Well, I actually reached out to the school initially begging for resources for this person from their side as I recognized that this person was in crisis. However, I was only able to reach a general unmonitored email and phone line, so it was not discovered on their side until a full 24 hours later. That's its own whole issue IMO, which I have expressed.)
This person, as far as I can tell, has no living adult relatives with legal authority to make decisions on their behalf. They have a stepparent, but this stepparent, from what I recall them saying, never adopted them, and is a single parent to a young half-sibling. I do not think that this step-parent has capacity to make decisions here in any sense but I do not know what the ramifications are if they do or if they don't have capacity. Either way, my friend who committed suicide is 25 and wrote their wishes out explicitly, so what can a family back on national soil do regardless?
I am wondering if we should be planning to expect for their remains to be repatriated by either the USA or KZ or the step-parent, if that's what the step-parent wishes to do, against the last wishes of my friend. This is such a murky thing to me; their body is presumably in the city morgue where this person was discovered and awaits a claimant. Who could this claimant be? What happens to the body if said claimant does not come within X number of days? This person wishes to be buried in the Deep South, they are now located in the North East- how could we expect the body to be transported? There are so many hurdles, and nobody really to arrange or provide guidance. My friend was impoverished, the surviving relatives in KZ are also very impoverished. The university has offered to provide some financial support so that might take care of any associated costs for this.
I am basically at my wit's end regarding this, and the past 24 hours have been a blur. I am trying all I can to help with sorting this, but I myself have no legal capacity or claim from what I can tell. I am not blood-related, just spiritual family.
Any insight is welcome, even if only potentially tangentially helpful. I really need pointers, guidance, resources for understanding how this might play out and what can or should or will happen.
Someone very close to me successfully completed suicide last night. This person was 25, and in the USA on a student visa legally. They are from Kazakhstan and they wish to remain in the USA for their burial. More below.
As mentioned, this person is by all definitions legally an adult, and they wrote a letter explicitly outlining their desire for their remains to be buried or interred here in the USA, and NOT Kazakhstan. They were legally here on a student visa, and I have contacted their university to inform them. (Well, I actually reached out to the school initially begging for resources for this person from their side as I recognized that this person was in crisis. However, I was only able to reach a general unmonitored email and phone line, so it was not discovered on their side until a full 24 hours later. That's its own whole issue IMO, which I have expressed.)
This person, as far as I can tell, has no living adult relatives with legal authority to make decisions on their behalf. They have a stepparent, but this stepparent, from what I recall them saying, never adopted them, and is a single parent to a young half-sibling. I do not think that this step-parent has capacity to make decisions here in any sense but I do not know what the ramifications are if they do or if they don't have capacity. Either way, my friend who committed suicide is 25 and wrote their wishes out explicitly, so what can a family back on national soil do regardless?
I am wondering if we should be planning to expect for their remains to be repatriated by either the USA or KZ or the step-parent, if that's what the step-parent wishes to do, against the last wishes of my friend. This is such a murky thing to me; their body is presumably in the city morgue where this person was discovered and awaits a claimant. Who could this claimant be? What happens to the body if said claimant does not come within X number of days? This person wishes to be buried in the Deep South, they are now located in the North East- how could we expect the body to be transported? There are so many hurdles, and nobody really to arrange or provide guidance. My friend was impoverished, the surviving relatives in KZ are also very impoverished. The university has offered to provide some financial support so that might take care of any associated costs for this.
I am basically at my wit's end regarding this, and the past 24 hours have been a blur. I am trying all I can to help with sorting this, but I myself have no legal capacity or claim from what I can tell. I am not blood-related, just spiritual family.
Any insight is welcome, even if only potentially tangentially helpful. I really need pointers, guidance, resources for understanding how this might play out and what can or should or will happen.
They were on a student visa -- I'm not an expert on this, but does this mean the school has some responsibility to take care of the student somehow? Maybe you can get access to a resource person through the school in any case. I'd ask. Surely someone will have some compassion about this situation.
posted by amtho at 9:55 PM on March 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by amtho at 9:55 PM on March 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: I am in contact with the school and I thought the same thing about their responsibility. I am not sure. It is a complex type of program whereby there's no real physical campus, all coursework is online and the student body is scattered across the globe as well. However, I mean, a LOT of schools would be like, bankrupt?-- if they were held responsible for the many suicides that occur while a student is enrolled. So that's pretty much exactly what I'm trying to find out-- what is the school responsible for, what is the stepparent responsible for, etc etc
posted by erattacorrige at 10:02 PM on March 11, 2022
posted by erattacorrige at 10:02 PM on March 11, 2022
I am so sorry for your loss.
Agree with others that next step should be a funeral home. But this may be a problem of payment, i assume.
So, practically speaking, i think a next step should be to inform the embassy of Khazhakstan, unless the university did so already.
The embassy may or may not be helpful, but should at least be informed. They should be able to at least clarify if a burial in the US is legally possible.
The university might have a counsellor? Or a dean of students who maybe open to help you fulfill the last wish re burial.
posted by 15L06 at 10:29 PM on March 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
Agree with others that next step should be a funeral home. But this may be a problem of payment, i assume.
So, practically speaking, i think a next step should be to inform the embassy of Khazhakstan, unless the university did so already.
The embassy may or may not be helpful, but should at least be informed. They should be able to at least clarify if a burial in the US is legally possible.
The university might have a counsellor? Or a dean of students who maybe open to help you fulfill the last wish re burial.
posted by 15L06 at 10:29 PM on March 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
eratta* - I didn't mean responsible financially, but maybe responsible for helping with the various unimagined logistics that someone has to deal with now. I doubt it's formally spelled out anywhere, but maybe "death" issues in general are.
posted by amtho at 11:28 PM on March 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by amtho at 11:28 PM on March 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
Sorry for your loss.
I have checked many embassies regarding policies on taking a body or cremated remains home but most of them stated that they do NOT have funds for such purposes. I haven't checked Kazahkstan's Embassy, but I doubt they would be any different.
Some colleges and universities have policies in dealing with death of a student, whether on or off campus. Usually public safety officer and dean of students would be notified, and as this is an international student, the appropriate office should've notified as well. However, this is more of a unified PR move rather than dealing with the remains or such.
The research I did suggests that a GoFundMe page be setup for the funeral expenses. When a student from India attending UMKC was shot during a robbery while working at a local fish and chips place (likely without work authorization) back in 2018, it was mentioned that a GoFundMe was setup for Mr. Koppu funeral expenses. Not finding too much else related to this topic.
posted by kschang at 1:51 AM on March 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
I have checked many embassies regarding policies on taking a body or cremated remains home but most of them stated that they do NOT have funds for such purposes. I haven't checked Kazahkstan's Embassy, but I doubt they would be any different.
Some colleges and universities have policies in dealing with death of a student, whether on or off campus. Usually public safety officer and dean of students would be notified, and as this is an international student, the appropriate office should've notified as well. However, this is more of a unified PR move rather than dealing with the remains or such.
The research I did suggests that a GoFundMe page be setup for the funeral expenses. When a student from India attending UMKC was shot during a robbery while working at a local fish and chips place (likely without work authorization) back in 2018, it was mentioned that a GoFundMe was setup for Mr. Koppu funeral expenses. Not finding too much else related to this topic.
posted by kschang at 1:51 AM on March 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
Honestly if you want information regarding your local area, call the medical examiner's office. They will be curt with you most likely, but can point you in the right direction of local area resources. Your city/county medical examiner should put you in the right direction. If they are are absolutely unhelpful, there are some searches you can do for resources/financial assistance for burial at the state or county level (in IL this program is funded through department of human services for for low income individuals). Any transferring of the body will be something that someone will need to pay for, funeral burial plots and such. The local program will not pay for that outside of the local area.
In general there is a fairly long process of identifying people who are responsible for decision making at this stage, the medical examiner will likely determine who that final person is.
In these situations when someone has passed who had a uncomplicated situation (identified family, wishes to be buried nearby) , the general advice to contact a funeral home of choice and then allow the director to handle all the communication with medical examiner and processes from there.
posted by AlexiaSky at 6:18 AM on March 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
In general there is a fairly long process of identifying people who are responsible for decision making at this stage, the medical examiner will likely determine who that final person is.
In these situations when someone has passed who had a uncomplicated situation (identified family, wishes to be buried nearby) , the general advice to contact a funeral home of choice and then allow the director to handle all the communication with medical examiner and processes from there.
posted by AlexiaSky at 6:18 AM on March 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
I bet ColdChef, Mefi’s resident undertaker would have information or resources for you.
I’m sorry for your loss. May peace and strength be with you and those in this situation.
posted by carabiner at 6:32 AM on March 12, 2022 [4 favorites]
I’m sorry for your loss. May peace and strength be with you and those in this situation.
posted by carabiner at 6:32 AM on March 12, 2022 [4 favorites]
I am a professional funeral director from the state of Louisiana.
I'm very sorry for your loss and for the information I have to give you: without a direct next of kin, there's not much you can do. The step-parent *may* be able to give directives from afar, but that's it. You can't embalm, bury, transport, or cremate a body without permission from the next of kin. And even if you could, it's an expensive process. Most likely what will happen here is that the body will be abandoned to the local coroner or medical examiner, and they will cremate or bury the body in a grave, unceremoniously. They will not transport the body internationally. That's very expensive and a coroner's office will not bear the burden of that expense. I wish I had better information for you. The system is unfortunately poorly designed for cases like this.
posted by ColdChef at 8:19 AM on March 12, 2022 [16 favorites]
I'm very sorry for your loss and for the information I have to give you: without a direct next of kin, there's not much you can do. The step-parent *may* be able to give directives from afar, but that's it. You can't embalm, bury, transport, or cremate a body without permission from the next of kin. And even if you could, it's an expensive process. Most likely what will happen here is that the body will be abandoned to the local coroner or medical examiner, and they will cremate or bury the body in a grave, unceremoniously. They will not transport the body internationally. That's very expensive and a coroner's office will not bear the burden of that expense. I wish I had better information for you. The system is unfortunately poorly designed for cases like this.
posted by ColdChef at 8:19 AM on March 12, 2022 [16 favorites]
Oh, man, my heart goes out to you, errattacorridge. Bless you for caring so much.
posted by y2karl at 8:29 AM on March 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by y2karl at 8:29 AM on March 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
If the step-parent will give permission to cremate your friend, shipping the cremains to a Southern state for burial would be much easier. I wonder if the deceased person has no actual legal next-of-kin, the embassy of Kazakhstan would consider allowing you to act on his behalf. It sounds like the half-sibling is the only blood relative and is a minor, so maybe if the sibling's mother permits it something could be worked out legally. That would leave the financial part still unsolved, and I wonder if the embassy has any sort of assistance fund that they would offer. This is so tragic and complicated, and I'm very sorry for your loss.
posted by citygirl at 8:57 AM on March 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by citygirl at 8:57 AM on March 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Hi all, yes I understand regarding putting this in the hands of the funeral homes, this precise issue it not about that due to the complex legal systems that must be negotiated and lack of legal next-of-kin as well as my friend's age at time of death; I am in contact w the university which is really amenable to providing support including financials; we have reached the step-parent and they are willing to let the remains stay stateside as my friend wished; we are hoping for some kind of wake service to have the sibling come here but this sibling being a minor WITHOUT a passport and especially in times of Ukraine/Russian conflict the visas are a challenge to acquire, but I am also in touch with the visa coordinator from the university who's contacting the KZ embassies in the various relevant cities in the USA (which is extra complicated due to the nature of the university and the location of my friend's body). Sorry if this is a mess I am rushing and talking to so many people from literally all over the world. Apparently Kazakh culture is less accepting of cremation but it seems based on the answers here that this cremation may happen regardless of what anyone wants. We can pay for a funeral, the school is willing to sort some of the funds, we will also run a fundraising campaign for the younger sibling for their travel expenses if we can manage to get them here AND/OR a college fund for when they age out of home as a continuation of the memory of my friend/their sibling.
The other part of this is that my friend wanted to be buried in the South on a family plot that has no legal relationship to my friend whatsoever: the situation is that my friend's partner, aged 26, passed away over many grueling months of battling cancer a few days back, and is being buried on the family plot today. The family is dealing with the loss of their own child and all of this, and in addition, accepted and loved my own friend as a child of their own too but the fact is that this family can only be the ones to determine if they accept my friend's remains for interment on the family plot and they must organize that, arrangements for which may take until Monday due to the funeral happening RIGHT NOW/grief.
I suspect that most likely due to logistical demands that my friend will be cremated and their remains sent South and to Kazakhstan, and I understand that the embassy likely won't provide assistance, but that the university will provide some financial support to enable these processes. I am now a bit scared that due to the transitory nature of my friend that her body is sitting in a city morgue unclaimed and unidentified (although I spoke with a cop on the scene the night of my friend's suicide and attempted to provide identifying details, as well as have copies of this person's passport and visa saved in my own files).
Thank you all for any insight, it's been helpful, I am seeking and getting help from many many sources and frankly it is exhausting and heartbreaking. Continual resources / insight welcome. Also-- if anyone knows best way to set up a trust fund of some kind for the 12 year old sibling-- I would prefer for those funds to stay here and accrue value in USD not abroad because the Kazakh tenge is volatile-- but also it's complex because that would affect an individual's tax situation, and I don't know any ONE person in this situation who is a US national who should be expected to spearhead that. I have never had to do ANYTHING like this before so I am trying my best.
posted by erattacorrige at 11:50 AM on March 12, 2022 [3 favorites]
The other part of this is that my friend wanted to be buried in the South on a family plot that has no legal relationship to my friend whatsoever: the situation is that my friend's partner, aged 26, passed away over many grueling months of battling cancer a few days back, and is being buried on the family plot today. The family is dealing with the loss of their own child and all of this, and in addition, accepted and loved my own friend as a child of their own too but the fact is that this family can only be the ones to determine if they accept my friend's remains for interment on the family plot and they must organize that, arrangements for which may take until Monday due to the funeral happening RIGHT NOW/grief.
I suspect that most likely due to logistical demands that my friend will be cremated and their remains sent South and to Kazakhstan, and I understand that the embassy likely won't provide assistance, but that the university will provide some financial support to enable these processes. I am now a bit scared that due to the transitory nature of my friend that her body is sitting in a city morgue unclaimed and unidentified (although I spoke with a cop on the scene the night of my friend's suicide and attempted to provide identifying details, as well as have copies of this person's passport and visa saved in my own files).
Thank you all for any insight, it's been helpful, I am seeking and getting help from many many sources and frankly it is exhausting and heartbreaking. Continual resources / insight welcome. Also-- if anyone knows best way to set up a trust fund of some kind for the 12 year old sibling-- I would prefer for those funds to stay here and accrue value in USD not abroad because the Kazakh tenge is volatile-- but also it's complex because that would affect an individual's tax situation, and I don't know any ONE person in this situation who is a US national who should be expected to spearhead that. I have never had to do ANYTHING like this before so I am trying my best.
posted by erattacorrige at 11:50 AM on March 12, 2022 [3 favorites]
This situation sounds brutal, I am so sorry.
I realise you may be hyper-focused on fulfilling this person's wishes and I don't know how to say this but... whatever you do now makes absolutely zero difference to the person who has died. It is nice to honor their wishes, but that's for you and not for them.
People can sit unclaimed in the morgue for a very long time, it's OK. You can ring the morgue and ask about how you might claim the body, it's a pretty routine question and they'll be prepared to help you.
I would anticipate the family of your friend's partner may not be amenable to sharing out the plot, especially when emotions are so raw, so just be prepared. In this instance I would be very inclined to cremate your friend, quietly and discreetly scatter their ashes on the grave of her partner, and fly home to have a memorial service. I've had to do that, and I'm satisfied it was the best solution available at the time.
Be aware that if you split the ashes, which the crematorium will do for you, you cannot FedEx etc them if you tell them the package contains cremains. You can however USPS them.
Again, I'm so sorry.
posted by DarlingBri at 3:17 PM on March 12, 2022 [4 favorites]
I realise you may be hyper-focused on fulfilling this person's wishes and I don't know how to say this but... whatever you do now makes absolutely zero difference to the person who has died. It is nice to honor their wishes, but that's for you and not for them.
People can sit unclaimed in the morgue for a very long time, it's OK. You can ring the morgue and ask about how you might claim the body, it's a pretty routine question and they'll be prepared to help you.
I would anticipate the family of your friend's partner may not be amenable to sharing out the plot, especially when emotions are so raw, so just be prepared. In this instance I would be very inclined to cremate your friend, quietly and discreetly scatter their ashes on the grave of her partner, and fly home to have a memorial service. I've had to do that, and I'm satisfied it was the best solution available at the time.
Be aware that if you split the ashes, which the crematorium will do for you, you cannot FedEx etc them if you tell them the package contains cremains. You can however USPS them.
Again, I'm so sorry.
posted by DarlingBri at 3:17 PM on March 12, 2022 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: Hi, updates: their grandmother has confirmed that a cremation is acceptable, and that 1/2 of their remains may go to South to the grave of their beloved. We have not contacted the city morgue and we will wait until tomorrow to do that to collaborate with the parents of the deceased partner, since the parents have more police report information and likely know the location of my friend's body. The USPS information is helpful, thank you. I am searching up urns that reflect my friend and am hoping that the grandmother and sister select one that they like. I will request that the university pay for the urn/s and shipping expenses since they offered financial recompense and also I personally feel like there was a systematic failure here (on many levels, too many for me to list now) to provide appropriate resources and support for my friend. Memorials for the university are being arranged and people in KZ are also going to arrange a memorial. I do not know if a wake will be held prior to cremation, I am hoping for one but I am not really believing in that outcome.
Now I have the grandmother and sister's contact info so I can talk to them (in Russian) on WhatsApp. I am still hoping we can arrange a fund for the sister, and maybe even send a bit to Grandma, as I know my friend was supporting them financially at times too (Russian pensions system and the current crisis in Russia... Grandma lives in Russia, not KZ).
There will be a video streamed funeral of my friend's beloved in an hour that the family has invited me to watch, kindly, as I never met their child and only know them through this crisis. I had sought out the father's cell number from some internet sleuthing on Thursday morning after securing his name from my friend before they completed their suicide, and I called him that evening when I had a bad sense about the situation and its urgency. So I have been collaborating with the parents since that night and I already love them. They have been the epitome of grace and love and support even in their darkest hour. I am hopeful about interring the remains of my friend with their child, based on how they have been so far. They did not skip a beat when I, a completely random person, called them on Thursday night in a panic, and have been immense in their generosity to my friend before their passing and to me at this time.
I miss my friend, I will always love them. Thank you for your helpful insight.
posted by erattacorrige at 11:03 AM on March 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
Now I have the grandmother and sister's contact info so I can talk to them (in Russian) on WhatsApp. I am still hoping we can arrange a fund for the sister, and maybe even send a bit to Grandma, as I know my friend was supporting them financially at times too (Russian pensions system and the current crisis in Russia... Grandma lives in Russia, not KZ).
There will be a video streamed funeral of my friend's beloved in an hour that the family has invited me to watch, kindly, as I never met their child and only know them through this crisis. I had sought out the father's cell number from some internet sleuthing on Thursday morning after securing his name from my friend before they completed their suicide, and I called him that evening when I had a bad sense about the situation and its urgency. So I have been collaborating with the parents since that night and I already love them. They have been the epitome of grace and love and support even in their darkest hour. I am hopeful about interring the remains of my friend with their child, based on how they have been so far. They did not skip a beat when I, a completely random person, called them on Thursday night in a panic, and have been immense in their generosity to my friend before their passing and to me at this time.
I miss my friend, I will always love them. Thank you for your helpful insight.
posted by erattacorrige at 11:03 AM on March 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
When my stepmom passed and we all realized that we had no idea how to arrange a large number of things, or even what the options were, the best thing we did was just pick a funeral home in the area to take care of the immediate things, and they explained to us what the next steps would be, and our options. If the university is offering financial help (good for them!), you should absolutely take them up on it. Someone there, perhaps in the office you called for help initially, will probably have a contact at a local funeral home. You could also ask if the university has a chaplain you can talk to. Chaplains aren't just for religious guidance, this is something they can probably help you with.
The thing that was an enormous relief for my family was realizing that we didn't actually have to figure out all of this ourselves. We had to decide what arrangements were important to us, and then the funeral director guided us on how to get those things accomplished. A good funeral home will be able to answer your questions and help you figure out what the best course is for you. That's part of the service they provide.
Do your best to eat and sleep as normally as you can, running short on those things can make everything else feel so much harder. I know it's easier said than done.
posted by Adridne at 8:01 PM on March 11, 2022 [2 favorites]