How to disassociate fan behavior from fandoms?
December 26, 2021 10:43 PM Subscribe
My ability to sincerely enjoy movies and tv shows has been really reduced by the obsessive behavior of (usually younger) fans. I feel like I can't go two steps on the internet without encountering elaborate (and sometimes disturbing) fanart and fanfiction about specific types of characters, and it's ruining the experience of watching so much that I've begun abandoning efforts to engage with anything new because I feel so put off. How do I disentangle these negative associations and enjoy content again?
This is not new. Over the past few years I've seen a huge increase in hyper behavior towards shows and films that spawn "imagines" and "y/n" fic as well as NSFW fanart of things intended for originally intended for kids. Examples include:
• Steven Universe (Steven x Spinel just wrecked everything for me)
• Gravity Falls (the human form of Bill Cypher)
• Luca (Alberto x Luca, which I 100% understand because yay representation but my god, the NSFW content)
• Encanto (Bruno, Camilo; the obsession with both male characters)
• Good Omens in general
And then there seems to be a direct link between the fans producing content for those things to the fans from fandoms for stuff like MCYT, Cookie Run, FNAF, etc. There's a lot of "domestic" content -- fanart of characters getting married and having children, even if the characters themselves are underage. This all comes up on Twitter, Instagram, and Tumblr, places I spend a lot of time on and it is so hard to avoid the things that trigger genuinely visceral negative reactions in me.
What can I do here? I loved Encanto and Steven Universe but I can't look at clips from either anymore without seeing the fan created content in my mind's eye. The role play videos of people dressed up like Aziraphale and Crowley (where the person answers questions as if they were those characters) have even made seeing photos of David Tennant and Michael Sheen distressing.
I recognize this is weird. I know my response to all this stuff is extreme. Obviously these characters really resonate with the people making this content. They resonate with me too! But not in a hyper fixation way and it really, REALLY bothers me and I just want to be able to watch something and not go, oh god, what are other fans going to do with this and how do I avoid it?
Thank you.
This is not new. Over the past few years I've seen a huge increase in hyper behavior towards shows and films that spawn "imagines" and "y/n" fic as well as NSFW fanart of things intended for originally intended for kids. Examples include:
• Steven Universe (Steven x Spinel just wrecked everything for me)
• Gravity Falls (the human form of Bill Cypher)
• Luca (Alberto x Luca, which I 100% understand because yay representation but my god, the NSFW content)
• Encanto (Bruno, Camilo; the obsession with both male characters)
• Good Omens in general
And then there seems to be a direct link between the fans producing content for those things to the fans from fandoms for stuff like MCYT, Cookie Run, FNAF, etc. There's a lot of "domestic" content -- fanart of characters getting married and having children, even if the characters themselves are underage. This all comes up on Twitter, Instagram, and Tumblr, places I spend a lot of time on and it is so hard to avoid the things that trigger genuinely visceral negative reactions in me.
What can I do here? I loved Encanto and Steven Universe but I can't look at clips from either anymore without seeing the fan created content in my mind's eye. The role play videos of people dressed up like Aziraphale and Crowley (where the person answers questions as if they were those characters) have even made seeing photos of David Tennant and Michael Sheen distressing.
I recognize this is weird. I know my response to all this stuff is extreme. Obviously these characters really resonate with the people making this content. They resonate with me too! But not in a hyper fixation way and it really, REALLY bothers me and I just want to be able to watch something and not go, oh god, what are other fans going to do with this and how do I avoid it?
Thank you.
I think I get what you mean? I love watching My Little Pony with my kids. But it keeps reminding me of all the sexualised brony fanart and then that pisses me off. It just spoils the experience a little to think of people taking something beautiful made for little girls and then twisting it into more of the same shit.
I don't think your response is wrong (or ridiculous, or an intrusive thought ffs!). But this is a little funny:
I recognize this is weird. I know my response to all this stuff is extreme. Obviously these characters really resonate with the people making this content. They resonate with me too! But not in a hyper fixation way
I don't know, you seem at least as intense about your reaction to people's fanart as they are in making it!
posted by Omnomnom at 12:13 AM on December 27, 2021 [4 favorites]
I don't think your response is wrong (or ridiculous, or an intrusive thought ffs!). But this is a little funny:
I recognize this is weird. I know my response to all this stuff is extreme. Obviously these characters really resonate with the people making this content. They resonate with me too! But not in a hyper fixation way
I don't know, you seem at least as intense about your reaction to people's fanart as they are in making it!
posted by Omnomnom at 12:13 AM on December 27, 2021 [4 favorites]
Unlike the above commenter, I am immersed in this subculture. I’m a much older fan but have always had a long standing interest in media that is generally marketed towards tweens and teens, be it my enthusiasm for beautiful animation, my joy in finding queer stories, my catharsis for living a more exciting childhood than I actually had, my old special interests in dragons and magic, my whole long standing weeaboo phase… for whatever reason that’s just who I am, and I’m cool with it.
But I absolutely get where you’re coming from. I too am completely thrown by the sudden prevalence of reader insert fic. I’m fine with underaged animated characters in adult situations but universally prefer them aged up and do NOT accept it with live action characters, let alone real people. The whole tumblr sexyman phenomenon irks me, not so much because it’s bizarre but because I kind of get it, and could so easily be one of those people.
Where we differ is that I don’t become very affected by other people’s fannish activities. Like, I’m aware of the entire subculture of cosplay tiktok roleplaying but I just scroll past it (and I don’t have tiktok so the only ones that I see are ones that tumblr deems repost worthy). When I’m engaging in canon material I’m able to separate the fandom from the original, just as when I’m engaging in fan works I’m able to separate the author’s intent from the resultant work and what it’s inspired.
I guess my suggestions to you would be about three-fold.
One, try to find other more mature fans. This is not dependent on age, really. You might like engaging with ace community fans of all ages, for example. I bet conversations right here on FanFare will scratch some of your engagement itch, and if you want to start talking about something that isn’t already you should go ahead and make those posts! I’ve found that fannish tumblr is in three camps right now: the chill olds (me, speranza, the rest of my very carefully curated dash), young projectors who are living all of my previous embarrassing life stages at once, and the horrendous discourse antis, who must be avoided at all costs. The young folks make a lot of the content and drama that I enjoy but that you seem to fear, so just… block them! If you see a thing on a tag search that squicks you, block ‘em. Begone! To the corn field! Same with Twitter, or anywhere else. Use blocking liberally!
Two, expand your tastes in media. Instead of looking for clips of things you’ve already seen, watch new stuff, maybe things that don’t fall completely within your comfort zone. Get used to watching things that you don’t already know you will love. This can help you find different kinds of fandoms that you might click with better, help you keep your mind off intrusive thoughts, and you will likely find many things to be fascinated by that have a nearly non existent fandom so there won’t be anything to worry about except a couple Yuletide fics! It can also just expand your life a little and be really satisfying that way. I know a lot of people who see this kind of collection based style of engaging in art to be reductive, just trying to watch a bunch of things without getting deep into any of them, but you can absolutely go too hard the other way and I think right now culturally we have swung the pendulum too hard in that direction. Make a new question here to ask for media recommendations!
And three, here is where I do really agree with the above commenter. I think this is a mental health issue and something you have the power to address. It’s not ridiculous, because we really can’t always control what triggers our anxiety or our other maladaptive thoughts. But it is negatively impacting your quality of life and therefor absolutely worth speaking to some professionals about it. Maybe these issues are masking something else you need help working on, or maybe they are indicative of a larger pattern in your life, I don’t know. But I do know that there are lots of different techniques that might help. To start with, some basic mindfulness might assist you to engage with a movie as it is in the moment without worrying about what others will make of it. At the more intense end, you could try speaking to a psychiatrist about OCD behaviors and medication. There are zillions of steps in between that might help you.
posted by Mizu at 12:13 AM on December 27, 2021 [13 favorites]
But I absolutely get where you’re coming from. I too am completely thrown by the sudden prevalence of reader insert fic. I’m fine with underaged animated characters in adult situations but universally prefer them aged up and do NOT accept it with live action characters, let alone real people. The whole tumblr sexyman phenomenon irks me, not so much because it’s bizarre but because I kind of get it, and could so easily be one of those people.
Where we differ is that I don’t become very affected by other people’s fannish activities. Like, I’m aware of the entire subculture of cosplay tiktok roleplaying but I just scroll past it (and I don’t have tiktok so the only ones that I see are ones that tumblr deems repost worthy). When I’m engaging in canon material I’m able to separate the fandom from the original, just as when I’m engaging in fan works I’m able to separate the author’s intent from the resultant work and what it’s inspired.
I guess my suggestions to you would be about three-fold.
One, try to find other more mature fans. This is not dependent on age, really. You might like engaging with ace community fans of all ages, for example. I bet conversations right here on FanFare will scratch some of your engagement itch, and if you want to start talking about something that isn’t already you should go ahead and make those posts! I’ve found that fannish tumblr is in three camps right now: the chill olds (me, speranza, the rest of my very carefully curated dash), young projectors who are living all of my previous embarrassing life stages at once, and the horrendous discourse antis, who must be avoided at all costs. The young folks make a lot of the content and drama that I enjoy but that you seem to fear, so just… block them! If you see a thing on a tag search that squicks you, block ‘em. Begone! To the corn field! Same with Twitter, or anywhere else. Use blocking liberally!
Two, expand your tastes in media. Instead of looking for clips of things you’ve already seen, watch new stuff, maybe things that don’t fall completely within your comfort zone. Get used to watching things that you don’t already know you will love. This can help you find different kinds of fandoms that you might click with better, help you keep your mind off intrusive thoughts, and you will likely find many things to be fascinated by that have a nearly non existent fandom so there won’t be anything to worry about except a couple Yuletide fics! It can also just expand your life a little and be really satisfying that way. I know a lot of people who see this kind of collection based style of engaging in art to be reductive, just trying to watch a bunch of things without getting deep into any of them, but you can absolutely go too hard the other way and I think right now culturally we have swung the pendulum too hard in that direction. Make a new question here to ask for media recommendations!
And three, here is where I do really agree with the above commenter. I think this is a mental health issue and something you have the power to address. It’s not ridiculous, because we really can’t always control what triggers our anxiety or our other maladaptive thoughts. But it is negatively impacting your quality of life and therefor absolutely worth speaking to some professionals about it. Maybe these issues are masking something else you need help working on, or maybe they are indicative of a larger pattern in your life, I don’t know. But I do know that there are lots of different techniques that might help. To start with, some basic mindfulness might assist you to engage with a movie as it is in the moment without worrying about what others will make of it. At the more intense end, you could try speaking to a psychiatrist about OCD behaviors and medication. There are zillions of steps in between that might help you.
posted by Mizu at 12:13 AM on December 27, 2021 [13 favorites]
Muting the words and hashtags on your social media that brings up the kinds of content you don't like may help somewhat, plus other associated terms like 'fanart' (but might stop you from seeing content relating to those tags that you are interested in seeing).
posted by k_tron at 12:21 AM on December 27, 2021
posted by k_tron at 12:21 AM on December 27, 2021
Response by poster: I spend a lot of time muting and filtering already. :(
I am also ok with being told this is a defect on my end. I just wish I could have a space to enjoy these things that is free of the sexualization of children's media. Good Omens obviously doesn't fall into this category. That's a special thing unto itself that I need to explore separately.
One thing that occurs to me is that some of the characters receiving the most attention from fans are ones that didn't get a lot of screen time. They are interesting characters that many people clearly want to explore more. I'm uncomfortable with the way they're being explored.
posted by The Adventure Begins at 12:40 AM on December 27, 2021
I am also ok with being told this is a defect on my end. I just wish I could have a space to enjoy these things that is free of the sexualization of children's media. Good Omens obviously doesn't fall into this category. That's a special thing unto itself that I need to explore separately.
One thing that occurs to me is that some of the characters receiving the most attention from fans are ones that didn't get a lot of screen time. They are interesting characters that many people clearly want to explore more. I'm uncomfortable with the way they're being explored.
posted by The Adventure Begins at 12:40 AM on December 27, 2021
What are you trying to keep from your engagement with these works? I, for example, am just... not exposed to this kind of thing, and like it that way. I think that if you're engaging with these spaces as much as it sounds like you want to, you are kind of signing on to do a lot of curating, just because that's what a lot of fandoms that exist on public social media are like now.
posted by sagc at 12:52 AM on December 27, 2021 [16 favorites]
posted by sagc at 12:52 AM on December 27, 2021 [16 favorites]
I'm with sagc. I watch plenty of shows with major fandoms and just never see any of the content you're talking about unless I were to go looking for it.
You might need to move from "filtering" to starting from scratch or a far more aggressive unfollowing approach.
posted by knapah at 12:57 AM on December 27, 2021 [9 favorites]
You might need to move from "filtering" to starting from scratch or a far more aggressive unfollowing approach.
posted by knapah at 12:57 AM on December 27, 2021 [9 favorites]
Mizu said everything I want to say.
I like finding a good community when I can, but when I can't, I simply avoid them aggressively. I guess I don't spend a lot of time on fan tumblr, but if it is really ruining your experience with media, it might be worth reevaluating your relationship to tumblr (and perhaps internet communities in general)? Because as someone who uses twitter heavily (for other things), I simply...have never seen that stuff. I loved Steven Universe, I just simply...enjoyed it. And to Mizu's point, whenever I have chatted about it, it has been with other adult fans who aren't rabid internet people. And it's been nice! I do wish that I had better communities to enjoy stuff in, but again to Mizu's point, it can be helpful to change how you approach community, and what media you choose to consume. I have to wonder what sort of internet space you've created for yourself where not being bombarded with like, inappropriate Steven Universe ships requires aggressive maintenance. Because this is all pretty niche stuff, in internet terms, so if you've created a virtual corner where like, you are being bombarded with content like that...it feels like that is partly your own doing. Because I consume a lot of nerd shit and I do not see any of that. If I see any ships in any fandom, anything erotic in any fandom, it's because I seek it out.
I would also encourage you to find a good therapist and work through this if you can. Because I think that this level of strength in your reaction does indeed point to something else going on. I mean I know people who are bothered by this stuff, but it's just...different. The level of intrusiveness seems unhealthy.
Also something else worth thinking about is what do you get out of fandom? Like the fact that you're clearly pretty deeply plugged into fan stuff makes it seem like you really like fandom and it is a big part of your engagement with media (which is fine!), but it seems like your relationship to fandom, to the realities of fandom, is very unhealthy (which is not good!). Wanting fandom is totally ok, but I think it's worth really honestly investigating what you get out of this media and what you get out of the fandom that has led to you creating this sort of personal hell that is ruining all of your media. I always wish there were more fandoms that aligned with what I like in or get out of media, but it's definitely not the default. And if you're unable to pull out of spaces that are really toxic for you, well, that deserves investigation.
posted by wooh at 12:59 AM on December 27, 2021 [17 favorites]
I like finding a good community when I can, but when I can't, I simply avoid them aggressively. I guess I don't spend a lot of time on fan tumblr, but if it is really ruining your experience with media, it might be worth reevaluating your relationship to tumblr (and perhaps internet communities in general)? Because as someone who uses twitter heavily (for other things), I simply...have never seen that stuff. I loved Steven Universe, I just simply...enjoyed it. And to Mizu's point, whenever I have chatted about it, it has been with other adult fans who aren't rabid internet people. And it's been nice! I do wish that I had better communities to enjoy stuff in, but again to Mizu's point, it can be helpful to change how you approach community, and what media you choose to consume. I have to wonder what sort of internet space you've created for yourself where not being bombarded with like, inappropriate Steven Universe ships requires aggressive maintenance. Because this is all pretty niche stuff, in internet terms, so if you've created a virtual corner where like, you are being bombarded with content like that...it feels like that is partly your own doing. Because I consume a lot of nerd shit and I do not see any of that. If I see any ships in any fandom, anything erotic in any fandom, it's because I seek it out.
I would also encourage you to find a good therapist and work through this if you can. Because I think that this level of strength in your reaction does indeed point to something else going on. I mean I know people who are bothered by this stuff, but it's just...different. The level of intrusiveness seems unhealthy.
Also something else worth thinking about is what do you get out of fandom? Like the fact that you're clearly pretty deeply plugged into fan stuff makes it seem like you really like fandom and it is a big part of your engagement with media (which is fine!), but it seems like your relationship to fandom, to the realities of fandom, is very unhealthy (which is not good!). Wanting fandom is totally ok, but I think it's worth really honestly investigating what you get out of this media and what you get out of the fandom that has led to you creating this sort of personal hell that is ruining all of your media. I always wish there were more fandoms that aligned with what I like in or get out of media, but it's definitely not the default. And if you're unable to pull out of spaces that are really toxic for you, well, that deserves investigation.
posted by wooh at 12:59 AM on December 27, 2021 [17 favorites]
You can ask a friend with similar tastes who doesn't have the same intense reaction to be your reccer and follow their picks for new fandoms that filter out the things you can't stand. I have done that in the past for friends who are interested in one of my fandoms but have specific tastes/squicks. I actually prefer only G-rated Good Omens fic, while I am happy to read BDSM in other fandoms, it's pretty common to have fandom-specific prefs.
What isn't common is having the existence of a squick overwhelm your enjoyment of the source or fan material that does meet your criteria.
I don't think this is a defect - that has such a moralising shame-filled label on it! I do find the way you're seeing this as very heavy on shame/correctness, and I think that would be worth exploring. Do you feel the same way for professional remakes of children's literature that go adult - e..g rewrites of fairy tales? Or is this about fan/amateur/unapproved reworks only?
I watch several kids series with my kid and we experience the same media very differently. I filter what fan things she sees from them so she sees only the G-rated stuff for those fandoms, but I am happy to read and see the weirder stuff for myself. I feel quite strongly it's the parents' job to filter online content for their kids, not the people creating this content if it's appropriately tagged.
I don't think this is a new thing either - Mary Sue OCs were stand-ins for reader self-inserts which have just become more acceptable as a format. The domestic stuff has always been around with fluff and smarm. These are across all fandoms, not just children's fandoms.
To me a lot of what you wrote sounds like someone who has read and internalised some of the antis cultural stuff (Fandom has a Purity Culture Problem - Marysue), where the discourse overlaps with some internal stuff you feel about sex, shame, appropriateness etc and has become a sticky mess impeding your enjoyment of a hobby.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 12:59 AM on December 27, 2021 [8 favorites]
What isn't common is having the existence of a squick overwhelm your enjoyment of the source or fan material that does meet your criteria.
I don't think this is a defect - that has such a moralising shame-filled label on it! I do find the way you're seeing this as very heavy on shame/correctness, and I think that would be worth exploring. Do you feel the same way for professional remakes of children's literature that go adult - e..g rewrites of fairy tales? Or is this about fan/amateur/unapproved reworks only?
I watch several kids series with my kid and we experience the same media very differently. I filter what fan things she sees from them so she sees only the G-rated stuff for those fandoms, but I am happy to read and see the weirder stuff for myself. I feel quite strongly it's the parents' job to filter online content for their kids, not the people creating this content if it's appropriately tagged.
I don't think this is a new thing either - Mary Sue OCs were stand-ins for reader self-inserts which have just become more acceptable as a format. The domestic stuff has always been around with fluff and smarm. These are across all fandoms, not just children's fandoms.
To me a lot of what you wrote sounds like someone who has read and internalised some of the antis cultural stuff (Fandom has a Purity Culture Problem - Marysue), where the discourse overlaps with some internal stuff you feel about sex, shame, appropriateness etc and has become a sticky mess impeding your enjoyment of a hobby.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 12:59 AM on December 27, 2021 [8 favorites]
Are you following specific people/blogs or looking in tags? I find that not dipping into tags can cut a lot of the negatives of fandom for me. Finding good individuals can prescreen a lot of the content.
Do you need to engage with fandom at all? I frequently block and filter for tags on things I am currently watching to avoid spoilers. Do you think that might be healthier for you and allow you to enjoy new things?
posted by oneear at 1:07 AM on December 27, 2021
Do you need to engage with fandom at all? I frequently block and filter for tags on things I am currently watching to avoid spoilers. Do you think that might be healthier for you and allow you to enjoy new things?
posted by oneear at 1:07 AM on December 27, 2021
If it really is about your discomfort with other people’s actions, that’s definitely not a fandom specific issue and can be addressed in therapy just like any other issue of control and anxiety. Because you have to become comfortable with not being able to control the actions of others. Since you are experienced in fandom I’m sure you’ve seen discussions of censorship, gatekeeping, and purity culture. Take AO3’s hard stance as an archive and not a curative experience, for example. It allows for collections and bookmarks with tags to serve as user generated curation, but all the other stuff is still hosted on the site. People get all worked up about that but time and time again it’s been shown that controlling other people’s ways of doing fandom is impossible and bad. What is good is controlling our own interaction with it, making boundaries for ourselves, and choosing to disengage if things are a bad fit.
Like, it’s okay to not do fandom and just watch a show! In fact, for the really good stuff I always do that! Have you considered with Good Omens, for example, just not dipping into anything beyond the book and mini series? Try reading other things by Gaiman or Pratchett, instead. I recommend Monstrous Regiment and Anansi Boys. Just say to yourself, okay, gonna watch Coraline and not look up anything fannish about it after. Maybe making that boundary for yourself to start with can help you stop worrying about getting upset in the future when you are watching something in the moment. Follow creators and enjoy their other work, rather than fans and their curation. For example, Coraline was made by Laika which has made a few other absolutely fantastic movies that I think stand entirely in their own, no fandom needed. You could watch those instead of spending time worrying about finding Coraline/Other Mother content out there.
Really though, it does sound like this is a thing to bring up to a mental health professional. We can’t choose our traumas or our triggers, and maybe you are accidentally retraumatizing yourself or engaging in some other kind of self destructive pattern that you just don’t see right now. It’s okay that it’s fandom based! That doesn’t make it any less worth taking seriously.
posted by Mizu at 1:30 AM on December 27, 2021 [9 favorites]
Like, it’s okay to not do fandom and just watch a show! In fact, for the really good stuff I always do that! Have you considered with Good Omens, for example, just not dipping into anything beyond the book and mini series? Try reading other things by Gaiman or Pratchett, instead. I recommend Monstrous Regiment and Anansi Boys. Just say to yourself, okay, gonna watch Coraline and not look up anything fannish about it after. Maybe making that boundary for yourself to start with can help you stop worrying about getting upset in the future when you are watching something in the moment. Follow creators and enjoy their other work, rather than fans and their curation. For example, Coraline was made by Laika which has made a few other absolutely fantastic movies that I think stand entirely in their own, no fandom needed. You could watch those instead of spending time worrying about finding Coraline/Other Mother content out there.
Really though, it does sound like this is a thing to bring up to a mental health professional. We can’t choose our traumas or our triggers, and maybe you are accidentally retraumatizing yourself or engaging in some other kind of self destructive pattern that you just don’t see right now. It’s okay that it’s fandom based! That doesn’t make it any less worth taking seriously.
posted by Mizu at 1:30 AM on December 27, 2021 [9 favorites]
I don't engage with a lot of fandom stuff - I write about it and engage with some aspects but I only pursue fannish things when I find something that adds to my life. For me it's specific parts of a fandom, specific ships or whatever. Sure I will come across random ick, but it's a lot harder if I only look for a specific ship.
What are you looking for when you seek out fanworks in those fandoms? I seek out my shop because I find it tends to have a lot of interesting writing about trauma, history, and gender. Even when I enjoy something I tend not to try find fanworks for it unless I think it's gonna add layers that I want. The ship I tend to read has a tendency towards deeper and more realistic fic, although occasional ick occurs, but I'm not overwhelmed with it.
I loved the novel Good Omens, was kinda meh on the show, loathe almost all fanworks for it now and most of the fannish behaviour and analysis. So I just don't engage. The work in that fandom isn't what I enjoy mostly, so apart from the occasional bit of fanart or fanvid, I don't consume any fanwork. I am not part of the fandom. And that's okay!
For some people the extra layers from fandom that they seek ARE the weirder, the unsettling, the personal y/n or whatever. It isn't for me. Some fandoms get dominated by that and I do think kids media attracts the absurd fanworks in a way adult media doesn't. In those cases you do have to aggressively disengage and only follow safe things. Which is annoying, but also this is a community and leisure activity. Fandom is not required no matter how much you love something. You can adore a media thing and never consume fanworks. You can want certain kinds of fanwork but the community is what it is, so will do what it does.
So I'd suggest...not being in fandom mostly? If you like a thing, just enjoy it? If you do want a certain experience of fanwork, curate via a whitelist rather than turn the hose on then blacklist.
posted by geek anachronism at 1:32 AM on December 27, 2021 [6 favorites]
What are you looking for when you seek out fanworks in those fandoms? I seek out my shop because I find it tends to have a lot of interesting writing about trauma, history, and gender. Even when I enjoy something I tend not to try find fanworks for it unless I think it's gonna add layers that I want. The ship I tend to read has a tendency towards deeper and more realistic fic, although occasional ick occurs, but I'm not overwhelmed with it.
I loved the novel Good Omens, was kinda meh on the show, loathe almost all fanworks for it now and most of the fannish behaviour and analysis. So I just don't engage. The work in that fandom isn't what I enjoy mostly, so apart from the occasional bit of fanart or fanvid, I don't consume any fanwork. I am not part of the fandom. And that's okay!
For some people the extra layers from fandom that they seek ARE the weirder, the unsettling, the personal y/n or whatever. It isn't for me. Some fandoms get dominated by that and I do think kids media attracts the absurd fanworks in a way adult media doesn't. In those cases you do have to aggressively disengage and only follow safe things. Which is annoying, but also this is a community and leisure activity. Fandom is not required no matter how much you love something. You can adore a media thing and never consume fanworks. You can want certain kinds of fanwork but the community is what it is, so will do what it does.
So I'd suggest...not being in fandom mostly? If you like a thing, just enjoy it? If you do want a certain experience of fanwork, curate via a whitelist rather than turn the hose on then blacklist.
posted by geek anachronism at 1:32 AM on December 27, 2021 [6 favorites]
Find someone you can talk with -- for sure. I hope you can find good moderators for fan-related add-ons to shows you love, because I'm only following direct recommendations from friends and trusted web sites because there's too few hours in the day already to consume all the source material let alone art inspired by the characters and settings.
How much is this intrusion into original source about "don't think of pink elephants" type suggestion? How well do you get on with ideas about accepting that there are many ideas in your head and letting pass you by the ones that aren't helpful right now -- as opposed to trying and failing to only think the right thoughts right now?
I don't want to ask you to go into more detail about Good Omens, it's one of my favourite books so I'm sorry to hear you're enjoying the source work less.
posted by k3ninho at 1:41 AM on December 27, 2021
How much is this intrusion into original source about "don't think of pink elephants" type suggestion? How well do you get on with ideas about accepting that there are many ideas in your head and letting pass you by the ones that aren't helpful right now -- as opposed to trying and failing to only think the right thoughts right now?
I don't want to ask you to go into more detail about Good Omens, it's one of my favourite books so I'm sorry to hear you're enjoying the source work less.
posted by k3ninho at 1:41 AM on December 27, 2021
I sort of resonate with your complaint but I've self-reflected enough that i know my issue is annoyance over what becomes prevalent fanons/headcanons but also current fandom spaces are optimised for visual media (which feels immediate to me) as well minimal text posts (so when u have something like Tumblr that's barely designed to have readmores or spoiler tags you're seeing the whole damn fic as you scroll through the tags whether you like it or not).
Aggressive filtering aside, i wonder if it's time for you to find like-minded folks via another space like discord or reddit. I do think keywords like "sex-averse/repulsed" might do the trick esp for ostensibly children's media IP fandom. Making your own space with its own norms might help if such a space doesn't exist.
That said though, there's a generational shift all right with these new generation's Mary Sues as well as RPs, but i would say it's not that hard to filter it out of view, but it is true it's not niche or cringe so there's no social pressure against them.
posted by cendawanita at 1:55 AM on December 27, 2021
Aggressive filtering aside, i wonder if it's time for you to find like-minded folks via another space like discord or reddit. I do think keywords like "sex-averse/repulsed" might do the trick esp for ostensibly children's media IP fandom. Making your own space with its own norms might help if such a space doesn't exist.
That said though, there's a generational shift all right with these new generation's Mary Sues as well as RPs, but i would say it's not that hard to filter it out of view, but it is true it's not niche or cringe so there's no social pressure against them.
posted by cendawanita at 1:55 AM on December 27, 2021
Oh one last thing, if we're talking tumblrs and twitters for fan production, i would suggest just limit yourself to gifmakers and fanartists. Those account tends to be well-tagged for promotional reasons so it's easy enough to develop filters for their stuff.
Actually reorienting your engagement on the basis of medium rather than content/canon might help. Maybe you're more of a movie/tv pop cultural commentator? Then the realm of the normies might have something for you, be it reddit or even the avclub comment section. Fanfare too. Some discords even.
(Also lol, I've completely ejected myself out of anything Cumberbatch and Gaiman-related because the ur-culture by now is just... Well, it's not for me)
posted by cendawanita at 2:01 AM on December 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
Actually reorienting your engagement on the basis of medium rather than content/canon might help. Maybe you're more of a movie/tv pop cultural commentator? Then the realm of the normies might have something for you, be it reddit or even the avclub comment section. Fanfare too. Some discords even.
(Also lol, I've completely ejected myself out of anything Cumberbatch and Gaiman-related because the ur-culture by now is just... Well, it's not for me)
posted by cendawanita at 2:01 AM on December 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
One thing that occurs to me is that some of the characters receiving the most attention from fans are ones that didn't get a lot of screen time. They are interesting characters that many people clearly want to explore more. I'm uncomfortable with the way they're being explored.
I feel this part hard.
Seconding cendawanita’s suggestion to search for keywords and curate a space that way. I love reading fanfic but I can be picky about how my favorite characters are interpreted, so one thing I’ve done is to spend some time searching tags and looking through people’s bookmarks on ao3 to try to find like-minded writers and then just following them and not spending much time in fandom spaces otherwise.
posted by chaiyai at 3:13 AM on December 27, 2021 [4 favorites]
I feel this part hard.
Seconding cendawanita’s suggestion to search for keywords and curate a space that way. I love reading fanfic but I can be picky about how my favorite characters are interpreted, so one thing I’ve done is to spend some time searching tags and looking through people’s bookmarks on ao3 to try to find like-minded writers and then just following them and not spending much time in fandom spaces otherwise.
posted by chaiyai at 3:13 AM on December 27, 2021 [4 favorites]
Yeah, I'm in the GO fandom, and I can attest that it's full of embarrassing bullshit. But throughout the years of being a big nerd, I have found that you cannot get away from cringe if you are going to get into the hot tub of any fandom. I deal with the cringe in the same way I deal with other negative emotions in social life:
Perspective (to other people, I am equally the source of embarrassing bullshit)
Examining the feelings (why is this so irritating to me, what kind of place am I in right now?)
Quasi-sociological perspective (these are kids! they're so young! they're so YOUNG. and they got problems like I never had when I was young. so many young AFAB people struggling to find their place in this terrible world and trying to relax in the meantime)
Strong boundaries (like almost never going to cons or doing stuff IRL for fandoms, keeping in mind the burning memory of people playing Quidditch on the college lawn in 2000)
It's a hobby. People get weird about hobbies. Ask anybody in the crochet scene.
posted by Countess Elena at 5:29 AM on December 27, 2021 [5 favorites]
Perspective (to other people, I am equally the source of embarrassing bullshit)
Examining the feelings (why is this so irritating to me, what kind of place am I in right now?)
Quasi-sociological perspective (these are kids! they're so young! they're so YOUNG. and they got problems like I never had when I was young. so many young AFAB people struggling to find their place in this terrible world and trying to relax in the meantime)
Strong boundaries (like almost never going to cons or doing stuff IRL for fandoms, keeping in mind the burning memory of people playing Quidditch on the college lawn in 2000)
It's a hobby. People get weird about hobbies. Ask anybody in the crochet scene.
posted by Countess Elena at 5:29 AM on December 27, 2021 [5 favorites]
My ability to sincerely enjoy movies and tv shows has been really reduced by the obsessive behavior of (usually younger) fans.
I think this has been touched on above but…is it your enjoyment of the movies and tv shows or of related fandom stuff? Because I burned out on being A Fan in the mid 90s and since then I’ve only really discussed the odd thing here on Fanfare, as far as internet stuff goes, and attended the odd con with friends. And when I watch or read any of the things you’ve listed, I haven’t encountered…any of the things you’ve mentioned. I know it’s out there but I don’t have a Tumblr to speak of, I don’t read much fan fic (I have a friend who occasionally shares a thing with me), and although I follow a number of authors and artists on Twitter and Instagram, I don’t follow a whole lot of fans of that type.
For me, I also now have a hard time watching people ignore age or work through certain elements of trauma and culture in a very similar way. I did it myself and have no judgment about it at all, except that for myself I wish I’d had the confidence to create my own thing rather than game in someone else’s world. But…it was way better than doing drugs which was probably the alternative addiction for me.
But that said, it’s (the trauma/sex stuff not present in the original) not something I want to spend time on or have in my head. So I fan girl in the old pre-Internet way (with no ‘zine budget) - I tell a few friends what I’m watching. If they join me, we can chat and if not, I just watch/read on my own. It is completely possible. It probably means not using your social media for fan stuff.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:32 AM on December 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
I think this has been touched on above but…is it your enjoyment of the movies and tv shows or of related fandom stuff? Because I burned out on being A Fan in the mid 90s and since then I’ve only really discussed the odd thing here on Fanfare, as far as internet stuff goes, and attended the odd con with friends. And when I watch or read any of the things you’ve listed, I haven’t encountered…any of the things you’ve mentioned. I know it’s out there but I don’t have a Tumblr to speak of, I don’t read much fan fic (I have a friend who occasionally shares a thing with me), and although I follow a number of authors and artists on Twitter and Instagram, I don’t follow a whole lot of fans of that type.
For me, I also now have a hard time watching people ignore age or work through certain elements of trauma and culture in a very similar way. I did it myself and have no judgment about it at all, except that for myself I wish I’d had the confidence to create my own thing rather than game in someone else’s world. But…it was way better than doing drugs which was probably the alternative addiction for me.
But that said, it’s (the trauma/sex stuff not present in the original) not something I want to spend time on or have in my head. So I fan girl in the old pre-Internet way (with no ‘zine budget) - I tell a few friends what I’m watching. If they join me, we can chat and if not, I just watch/read on my own. It is completely possible. It probably means not using your social media for fan stuff.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:32 AM on December 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
I feel like I can't go two steps on the internet without encountering elaborate (and sometimes disturbing) fanart and fanfiction about specific types of characters
For what it's worth, I'm very familiar with three out of the five properties you mention and I encounter the kind of fan stuff you are describing exactly never. The major difference I can spot is that I don't use tumblr, so this may or may not be fully helpful, but it does suggest that stronger curation of what you are reading and following might help along with some active rethinking of what your browsing "habits" are in the first place. E.g. unfollow anyone who is actively posting/reposting this content, mute/block some keywords, maybe consider reducing tumblr overall (what is it that you want to be getting out of tumblr?), try to do less random scrolling, try to think about if there's any links you go to on autopilot that you should just stop, ...
posted by advil at 7:08 AM on December 27, 2021 [6 favorites]
For what it's worth, I'm very familiar with three out of the five properties you mention and I encounter the kind of fan stuff you are describing exactly never. The major difference I can spot is that I don't use tumblr, so this may or may not be fully helpful, but it does suggest that stronger curation of what you are reading and following might help along with some active rethinking of what your browsing "habits" are in the first place. E.g. unfollow anyone who is actively posting/reposting this content, mute/block some keywords, maybe consider reducing tumblr overall (what is it that you want to be getting out of tumblr?), try to do less random scrolling, try to think about if there's any links you go to on autopilot that you should just stop, ...
posted by advil at 7:08 AM on December 27, 2021 [6 favorites]
Quit Tumblr, stop following fannish Instas and hashtags. I would suggest a site blocker like Freedom because at this point it sounds like you can't stop clicking on stuff that bothers you. It's like you're showing up at the playground and the screaming kids are giving you a migraine -- the kids aren't going to stop screaming, that's what the playground is for.
Occasionally participating in Fanfare threads is about as much fandom as I can handle. It might be a little too quiet, but people here are older and have generally learned not to overshare about how they are horny for triangles or cookies.
posted by betweenthebars at 7:18 AM on December 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
Occasionally participating in Fanfare threads is about as much fandom as I can handle. It might be a little too quiet, but people here are older and have generally learned not to overshare about how they are horny for triangles or cookies.
posted by betweenthebars at 7:18 AM on December 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
I don't think what you're describing is weird or extreme because I've experienced this too. Fandoms have ruined for me everything I liked that they were attached to and people I couldn't figure out how to be friends with because they only cared about 1 thing. I have never understood the whole concept. So don't feel you're some kind of weirdo for this.
The only way to avoid it is to do what you have to do to keep it away from your eyeballs. That means you have to watch what you watch, enjoy it on a personal level & just don't go looking for it on the internet.
posted by bleep at 7:37 AM on December 27, 2021
The only way to avoid it is to do what you have to do to keep it away from your eyeballs. That means you have to watch what you watch, enjoy it on a personal level & just don't go looking for it on the internet.
posted by bleep at 7:37 AM on December 27, 2021
Quit Tumblr and Twitter. Your feelings about fandom and your mental health will improve. I quit both of them (took a long time and app blockers for Twitter, for Tumblr I just signed out and never signed back in) and I could just like stuff again without a thousand other voices in my head. I could connect to a story and to the artist in a more emotional (or less emotional if I so decided) way and direct way, and I was able to enjoy MORE stories instead of being trapped in a maladaptive comfort zone that reinforced obessive thinking and overprotectiveness towards a handful. You sound like I did a few years ago. Take a real step away and try a new perspective. It may or may not work for you as it did for me, but it's worth a shot.
posted by wellifyouinsist at 7:54 AM on December 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by wellifyouinsist at 7:54 AM on December 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
I think there are two components of this. First, there is a technological systems component, where fandom engagement has become increasingly oriented around tags—which means if you are mostly following broad subjects instead of individual people, you’re certain to get a bunch of stuff you don’t actually want. To address this, I would recommend reorienting your fandom experience more around specific accounts/people. I know the kind of content you describe exists in my fandoms on Tumblr, but I only ever see it if I’m searching—if I’m on my dashboard, I am only seeing content I like and want, because I choose who/what I see there.
But the second component has to do with the size/quality/impact of your reaction to seeing stuff you don’t like. I want to highlight this comment from dorothyisunderwood:
To me a lot of what you wrote sounds like someone who has read and internalised some of the antis cultural stuff (Fandom has a Purity Culture Problem - Marysue), where the discourse overlaps with some internal stuff you feel about sex, shame, appropriateness etc and has become a sticky mess impeding your enjoyment of a hobby.
People are going to enjoy the media you like in ways you don’t like; that’s life and that’s fandom. But you are experiencing a real vortex of emotion around this completely neutral fact: disturbance, shame, and fixation, and then guilt and self-criticism that you even care in the first place. I think one of the best ways to short-circuit this response and disentangle your emotions is to spend some time reading and reflecting on anti culture in general, on your own relationship to sex and shame, and on the role of sex—and queer sexuality specifically—in the history of fandom. (I really do sympathize with fans who want more gen content, but historically that’s just not where most of fandom comes from.)
You can absolutely limit your exposure to things that squick you via technological means (seriously, follow people not tags), but I think you will also find some peace by approaching this subject with both internal emotional analysis and historical/cultural analysis.
posted by CtrlAltDelete at 10:18 AM on December 27, 2021 [9 favorites]
But the second component has to do with the size/quality/impact of your reaction to seeing stuff you don’t like. I want to highlight this comment from dorothyisunderwood:
To me a lot of what you wrote sounds like someone who has read and internalised some of the antis cultural stuff (Fandom has a Purity Culture Problem - Marysue), where the discourse overlaps with some internal stuff you feel about sex, shame, appropriateness etc and has become a sticky mess impeding your enjoyment of a hobby.
People are going to enjoy the media you like in ways you don’t like; that’s life and that’s fandom. But you are experiencing a real vortex of emotion around this completely neutral fact: disturbance, shame, and fixation, and then guilt and self-criticism that you even care in the first place. I think one of the best ways to short-circuit this response and disentangle your emotions is to spend some time reading and reflecting on anti culture in general, on your own relationship to sex and shame, and on the role of sex—and queer sexuality specifically—in the history of fandom. (I really do sympathize with fans who want more gen content, but historically that’s just not where most of fandom comes from.)
You can absolutely limit your exposure to things that squick you via technological means (seriously, follow people not tags), but I think you will also find some peace by approaching this subject with both internal emotional analysis and historical/cultural analysis.
posted by CtrlAltDelete at 10:18 AM on December 27, 2021 [9 favorites]
It does sound to me like there's something else going on here. I have less than zero interest in most of the things you find objectionable and encountered them only rarely even when I was much more active in fandom, but even then it was usually a The goggles, they do nothing!!! moment rather than the trigger for a spiral of emotional turmoil. I knew it was out there, knew the signs, and avoided them ("people rather than tags" is indeed an excellent strategy). Occasionally, I regretted clicking on something and made horrified noises to a friend. I think most people who hang around long enough to figure out the ropes have this sort of fandom experience (or, if they do see such material, do it on purpose for generally complex reasons I don't care to judge).
But domestic fluff about the characters all-grown-up and having kids being profoundly disturbing is getting into anti territory, I think--I mean, that is literally the final chapter of the Harry Potter books and no one thinks JKR is some kind of pedophile (just a TERF). I mean this in the kindest possible way: you would probably really benefit from talking to someone about why you find it all so traumatizing and why you are compulsively seeking out retraumatization.
posted by praemunire at 2:50 PM on December 27, 2021 [8 favorites]
But domestic fluff about the characters all-grown-up and having kids being profoundly disturbing is getting into anti territory, I think--I mean, that is literally the final chapter of the Harry Potter books and no one thinks JKR is some kind of pedophile (just a TERF). I mean this in the kindest possible way: you would probably really benefit from talking to someone about why you find it all so traumatizing and why you are compulsively seeking out retraumatization.
posted by praemunire at 2:50 PM on December 27, 2021 [8 favorites]
Soooooooooo obviously you don't have to answer this, but... were you an English major by any chance? Or, I mean, English isn't the only academic literature discipline that does this, but there's a stereotype about English majors that there's a little bit of truth to.
I was a comparative literature major, as it happens, and it's a very different way of looking at human art forms. The academic discipline of English (speaking broadly enough to be inaccurate around the edges) is very concerned with canonicity, with the One True Interpretation (be it the creator's or the consumer's), with the Original.
Whereas comp lit is all "look! motifs! adaptations! translations! multiple texts of what is nominally the same work going in multiple directions! unauthorized sequels! change is cool and fun (and inevitable) and let's study what happens during it!" It's just... in my experience so much more relaxed and openminded and let-creators-be-creators about everything.
It was a damn great major and I've always been glad I chose it.
Any chance academic formation is playing a role here, and any chance looking at a different mode of thought would help?
posted by humbug at 4:08 PM on December 27, 2021
I was a comparative literature major, as it happens, and it's a very different way of looking at human art forms. The academic discipline of English (speaking broadly enough to be inaccurate around the edges) is very concerned with canonicity, with the One True Interpretation (be it the creator's or the consumer's), with the Original.
Whereas comp lit is all "look! motifs! adaptations! translations! multiple texts of what is nominally the same work going in multiple directions! unauthorized sequels! change is cool and fun (and inevitable) and let's study what happens during it!" It's just... in my experience so much more relaxed and openminded and let-creators-be-creators about everything.
It was a damn great major and I've always been glad I chose it.
Any chance academic formation is playing a role here, and any chance looking at a different mode of thought would help?
posted by humbug at 4:08 PM on December 27, 2021
This may sound overly obvious, but: just because that stuff exists does not mean you have to engage with it. You say you're good at filtering, which is a great first step, but step 2 in that filtering is filtering yourself, now that you've filtered the apps. Even if things get through your app filter, you are in no way obligated to engage with them.
Enjoy what you enjoy, ignore what doesn't add to that enjoyment. It's not a "defect" on your end; it's just a bit of a lack of awareness that you are in control of what entertains you and what spoils that entertainment for you.
posted by pdb at 4:40 PM on December 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
Enjoy what you enjoy, ignore what doesn't add to that enjoyment. It's not a "defect" on your end; it's just a bit of a lack of awareness that you are in control of what entertains you and what spoils that entertainment for you.
posted by pdb at 4:40 PM on December 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
100% i've had to solve this by sticking to a handful of tumblr friends whose approach to fandom i trust and vibe with, sticking to a handful of small familiar and comfortable fandoms, especially ones focused on adult chars, and not touching whatever the Current Popular Media is
(im letting go of a lot of Young Extremely Online People discourse as i get older but not on being an "anti" yet lol. i do also deal with a lot of ocd traits around morality and sexualization and dealing with those is letting me deal w the fact that i just genuinely can't do anything about people making this content except control my own behavior around it... basically, the old "dont like, dont read," as much as i hate to realize that lol)
posted by gaybobbie at 6:09 PM on December 27, 2021
(im letting go of a lot of Young Extremely Online People discourse as i get older but not on being an "anti" yet lol. i do also deal with a lot of ocd traits around morality and sexualization and dealing with those is letting me deal w the fact that i just genuinely can't do anything about people making this content except control my own behavior around it... basically, the old "dont like, dont read," as much as i hate to realize that lol)
posted by gaybobbie at 6:09 PM on December 27, 2021
Response by poster: Lots of wonderful things to think about here. Thank you very much for your insightful comments.
To answer some questions:
1. I REALLY don't seek fan content out. Social media algorithms on the Explore tabs of different apps present it to me after I visit, say, the instagram of the art director for Encanto (who is someone I know.) Solution: Avoid any and all Explore tabs and talk to the people who worked on the kids movies and shows I like directly where possible.
2. I am a millennial and was a fervent contributor of fan content to many fandoms in my youth but am no longer. I think that I really miss that connection to media, but I am also being ultra cringed out by it because, you know, I am now an adult, I have Seen Things, etc, and it all feels like too much.
Solution: Fandom is for everyone and how they engage is with content is what's right for them. I, however, am no longer comfortable in fandom spaces, so I will not participate in any of them until I find ones that fit my needs again.
3. I was not familiar with anti culture until some of you brought it up. I need to examine my participation in and connection with purity culture and gatekeeping, so thank you for sharing that info with me. I have worked on projects with Disney Jr and the like, so I am probably more sensitive to NSFW interpretations than a lot of people who weren't directly involved in the making of, say, something like MLP. However it's going to be a little weird since I now actively consume adult content for shows like the Mandalorian, but you know what, it be like that sometimes. Solution: Discuss these things with my therapist!
Finally, yesterday morning I deleted all social media apps from my phone so that the only place I can endless scroll is Tik Tok where I exclusively watch videos of people cleaning things. I already feel less agitated. :)
posted by The Adventure Begins at 8:36 AM on December 28, 2021 [8 favorites]
To answer some questions:
1. I REALLY don't seek fan content out. Social media algorithms on the Explore tabs of different apps present it to me after I visit, say, the instagram of the art director for Encanto (who is someone I know.) Solution: Avoid any and all Explore tabs and talk to the people who worked on the kids movies and shows I like directly where possible.
2. I am a millennial and was a fervent contributor of fan content to many fandoms in my youth but am no longer. I think that I really miss that connection to media, but I am also being ultra cringed out by it because, you know, I am now an adult, I have Seen Things, etc, and it all feels like too much.
Solution: Fandom is for everyone and how they engage is with content is what's right for them. I, however, am no longer comfortable in fandom spaces, so I will not participate in any of them until I find ones that fit my needs again.
3. I was not familiar with anti culture until some of you brought it up. I need to examine my participation in and connection with purity culture and gatekeeping, so thank you for sharing that info with me. I have worked on projects with Disney Jr and the like, so I am probably more sensitive to NSFW interpretations than a lot of people who weren't directly involved in the making of, say, something like MLP. However it's going to be a little weird since I now actively consume adult content for shows like the Mandalorian, but you know what, it be like that sometimes. Solution: Discuss these things with my therapist!
Finally, yesterday morning I deleted all social media apps from my phone so that the only place I can endless scroll is Tik Tok where I exclusively watch videos of people cleaning things. I already feel less agitated. :)
posted by The Adventure Begins at 8:36 AM on December 28, 2021 [8 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
One path is, can you unfollow the specific people or content? Don't use Tumblr for your shiny new show that you want to experience the way the makers intended without outside influence. Don't read fan content. Maybe back off those online communities and social media altogether, or think about why you feel like you can't and if there's another way to meet that need. It may take trial and error, and time, to find other ways of getting community, but it may be worth it (not just for this but for other reasons too).
The other is, what happens if you consider that all the shipping / domestic art is of the characters in several years after they've grown up? Does that have any effect on your horror? Or is the idea of the character growing up intrinsically repulsive, like, are you using the character and the show as a shelter from something about [adulthood, sex, romance] and folks mixing them ruins the safety of that haven for you?
posted by Lady Li at 12:11 AM on December 27, 2021 [9 favorites]