Child protective services
October 15, 2021 5:11 AM Subscribe
Have you ever reported concerns to a child protective service in any location? If so, and if you know, did things get better, worse, or stay the same for the children involved?
I worked with them for a few years. You can literally call and talk to them. My role was tied to my job, so often I was reporting abuse that was years old, often with incomplete, but enough information if there might be a second report. One case resulted in a childcare provider losing their license, so the child (and other children) are safer because of speaking up. It’s not an active part of my work, and it’s a mixed group of people who take the report, as it is intense work. The report is a small fraction of the process, and it’s difficult to predict an outcome. Most states require adults to report child abuse by law because children are that vulnerable.
posted by childofTethys at 5:37 AM on October 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by childofTethys at 5:37 AM on October 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
I’ve called many times as part of my work, and in several states. Most often nothing happens at all. Sometimes there will be a (often cursory) investigation. Generally when anything was done it supported the family staying intact, rather than removing the child.
posted by shadygrove at 5:58 AM on October 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by shadygrove at 5:58 AM on October 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
With reporting, it’s mostly people who are expected to report that face repercussions. For school age children, the process can be very low-key-at-school.
posted by childofTethys at 6:00 AM on October 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by childofTethys at 6:00 AM on October 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
Yes, years ago I was assisting in a special Ed classroom when a child revealed evidence of pretty severe physical abuse. In that case, reporting led to a positive result, at least in the short term. The abuser lived with the child but was not related and with support the biological parent made a change in living arrangements.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:05 AM on October 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by warriorqueen at 6:05 AM on October 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
I've reported a many of things because of my job,
and I'm a mandated reporter. I've also worked with kids in care and adults previously in care. In general, DCFS/CPS is an under funded agency across the US . Severely so.
In general the process works like this. Anyone of any age, or demographic can call the hotline and make a report. That report is then taken by a screener. That screener takes the report into account and makes a decision regarding next steps, if a case is concidered something that needs immediate response and safety planning right now, is it is something that can be followed up on in a slightly longer time frame, or it is not something that they will investigate. An investigation is something that has to take place within a short time frame (here it is 60 days)
during this time there may be a safety plan for the child where there is not an open case, but the child is not allowed to live with the accused caregiver. After the initial investigation a case is either concidered founded, and dcfs services continue or unfounded, where the case is closed, and dcfs is done. Factors that can influence what happens starting at the screening level decisions can range widely, sometimes states use their record system to concider if there should be
a new investigation should be open, some don't. Laws for what constitutes abuse vary from state to state. Sometimes it comes down to judgement and you can call the same report in more than once and get different response types in the screening phase.
DCFS has some very specific goals in mind with a open case. These have changed over time, and policies between states can differ in the pressure on removal of kids to fostercare vs kinship placement vs group home vs staying with the accused caregiver(s).
Are there kids who are absolutely at risk with their caregivers and need to just live with someone else? Absolutely. Are there kids who parents need help with disabilities, socioeconomic status, or other support services? Yes. The question becomes what to do with kids who parenting is not adaquate for whatever reason, but might get better. Where people might be able to be better? Where parents do care about the well being of their children but have tons of barriers to being "good enough" parents in the eyes of DCFS. People are becoming more and more aware about how critical attachment is, and messing that up with family seperation is absolutely damaging to kids. DCFS tries to recognize this.
This comes into a bunch of intersection issues about culture, parenting styles, socioeconomic class and bias, and straight up discrimination. It also is where DCFS can give parents things to do, such as take x classes or get a psychological evaluation, or go to substance abuse treatment, or find stable housing but then not actually provide the support to do those things. Some csseworkers do things better than others, but consistency in care is hard to come by because turnover is high and caseload sizes are far far to big. It's quite possible as a person in the system to be given mandates that are unreachable for a variety of reasons such as significant wait lists, or cause consequences in other areas of life. Someone who is a day laborer can't take fmla to get substance abuse treatment. A 30 day program could litterally make that person homeless. Someone who is not a citizen can't just get a job, or find new housing. It is complicated and sometimes the answer to these problem is more money, not something that the caregiver or dcfs is able to provide.
Anyway, DCFS is a huge signal of the underfunding of social services in general. It has many cracks and holes to fall into. It does litterally save some kids from horrific situations and even death. But so many children investigated and in the system don't quite fall into that catagory for a variety of reasons. There is now also literatiure and discussion on how things such as homelessness, and discrimation can impact reporting. The rates of reporting of White families and Black families in medical settings can vary significantly. Once an investigation is open, small things that never would have been a problem beforehand can become a problem.
What is even more interesting is that the criminal justice system and DCFS aren't connected. So someone can lose their children due to an allegation of physical abuse, but never be found guilty for assualt of a child. Totally different court systems.
Anyway, this is a whole thing that i could go on and on and on about.
posted by AlexiaSky at 6:48 AM on October 15, 2021 [14 favorites]
and I'm a mandated reporter. I've also worked with kids in care and adults previously in care. In general, DCFS/CPS is an under funded agency across the US . Severely so.
In general the process works like this. Anyone of any age, or demographic can call the hotline and make a report. That report is then taken by a screener. That screener takes the report into account and makes a decision regarding next steps, if a case is concidered something that needs immediate response and safety planning right now, is it is something that can be followed up on in a slightly longer time frame, or it is not something that they will investigate. An investigation is something that has to take place within a short time frame (here it is 60 days)
during this time there may be a safety plan for the child where there is not an open case, but the child is not allowed to live with the accused caregiver. After the initial investigation a case is either concidered founded, and dcfs services continue or unfounded, where the case is closed, and dcfs is done. Factors that can influence what happens starting at the screening level decisions can range widely, sometimes states use their record system to concider if there should be
a new investigation should be open, some don't. Laws for what constitutes abuse vary from state to state. Sometimes it comes down to judgement and you can call the same report in more than once and get different response types in the screening phase.
DCFS has some very specific goals in mind with a open case. These have changed over time, and policies between states can differ in the pressure on removal of kids to fostercare vs kinship placement vs group home vs staying with the accused caregiver(s).
Are there kids who are absolutely at risk with their caregivers and need to just live with someone else? Absolutely. Are there kids who parents need help with disabilities, socioeconomic status, or other support services? Yes. The question becomes what to do with kids who parenting is not adaquate for whatever reason, but might get better. Where people might be able to be better? Where parents do care about the well being of their children but have tons of barriers to being "good enough" parents in the eyes of DCFS. People are becoming more and more aware about how critical attachment is, and messing that up with family seperation is absolutely damaging to kids. DCFS tries to recognize this.
This comes into a bunch of intersection issues about culture, parenting styles, socioeconomic class and bias, and straight up discrimination. It also is where DCFS can give parents things to do, such as take x classes or get a psychological evaluation, or go to substance abuse treatment, or find stable housing but then not actually provide the support to do those things. Some csseworkers do things better than others, but consistency in care is hard to come by because turnover is high and caseload sizes are far far to big. It's quite possible as a person in the system to be given mandates that are unreachable for a variety of reasons such as significant wait lists, or cause consequences in other areas of life. Someone who is a day laborer can't take fmla to get substance abuse treatment. A 30 day program could litterally make that person homeless. Someone who is not a citizen can't just get a job, or find new housing. It is complicated and sometimes the answer to these problem is more money, not something that the caregiver or dcfs is able to provide.
Anyway, DCFS is a huge signal of the underfunding of social services in general. It has many cracks and holes to fall into. It does litterally save some kids from horrific situations and even death. But so many children investigated and in the system don't quite fall into that catagory for a variety of reasons. There is now also literatiure and discussion on how things such as homelessness, and discrimation can impact reporting. The rates of reporting of White families and Black families in medical settings can vary significantly. Once an investigation is open, small things that never would have been a problem beforehand can become a problem.
What is even more interesting is that the criminal justice system and DCFS aren't connected. So someone can lose their children due to an allegation of physical abuse, but never be found guilty for assualt of a child. Totally different court systems.
Anyway, this is a whole thing that i could go on and on and on about.
posted by AlexiaSky at 6:48 AM on October 15, 2021 [14 favorites]
My daughter brought home a friend years ago, who told me that her stepfather had been abusing her for a few years. I brought her to the police station, and they put her with child protective services. They actually brought her back to my home for one night, as they couldn't find an alternate home for her to stay at, with such short notice.
A few months later, I brought my daughter to a sleepover. The girl was there, and thanked me profusely for intervening. She and her younger sister, who'd she'd been afraid was next in line for abuse (hence her finally speaking out), had been placed with an aunt, and she was happy and thriving. AFAIK, the stepfather had been charged and found guilty.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 6:53 AM on October 15, 2021 [21 favorites]
A few months later, I brought my daughter to a sleepover. The girl was there, and thanked me profusely for intervening. She and her younger sister, who'd she'd been afraid was next in line for abuse (hence her finally speaking out), had been placed with an aunt, and she was happy and thriving. AFAIK, the stepfather had been charged and found guilty.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 6:53 AM on October 15, 2021 [21 favorites]
Child protective service personnel are overworked and underpaid, is the first thing you need to know. I was involved in a CPS case that was opened against a relative after she gave birth to a child with neonatal withdrawal syndrome (baby was born addicted to cocaine.) Ultimately the child went home to drug-addicted parents when she was 11 days old. When I sought custody of the children through attorneys I was told that the parents’ wishes would be honored regarding who their children went to live with, that I would be petitioning for their removal rather than placement with me. They have an older child who was also neglected. A mandatory reporter in my life also called multiple times to add to the case. Their case was closed after a year of random drug tests and 9 hours per week of court-mandated therapy. They never faced any charges and they are both back using again (surprise!)
This is a broken system - it may be better in other states (I’m in Florida) but it was very clear to me that children are not valued in this country.
All this being said - call and talk to someone at CPS. You don’t have to be the arbiter of the case - you just a moral obligation to report evidence of neglect or abuse.
posted by tatiana wishbone at 6:57 AM on October 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
This is a broken system - it may be better in other states (I’m in Florida) but it was very clear to me that children are not valued in this country.
All this being said - call and talk to someone at CPS. You don’t have to be the arbiter of the case - you just a moral obligation to report evidence of neglect or abuse.
posted by tatiana wishbone at 6:57 AM on October 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
A family member [B] had a difficult experience with DCFS. B's child always came back dysregulated after a weekend with B's ex. Eventually, the child returned from a weekend at the Ex's exhibiting common behavior for someone sexually abused (as per a clinician and the principal of child's school). The child eventually admitted to B that B's ex's new boyfriend was abusing him.
When B reached out to DCFS, the lower-level staff initially moved quickly and were wonderful - but difficulty came in substantiating the abuse. When B's 4-year old was pulled into a room with a police offer or a few DCFS staff members, the child (reasonably) had a hard time opening up or telling a consistent story. The DCFS director in charge of the case felt that there was no hard evidence of abuse and didn't want to get in the middle of a parental dispute, so the case was closed.
Eventually, B's child shared the abuse story with his therapist and B was able to capture the child talking about it on camera, so there is a full investigation going on by the police and the family court. B's lawyer suggested that it wasn't worth the effort to contact DCFS again.
I try to look at it as DCFS being overworked and needs to focus on critical or slam-dunk cases (e.g., where they can do the most good with their effort), but the director's response was really demoralizing.
posted by TofuGolem at 7:48 AM on October 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
When B reached out to DCFS, the lower-level staff initially moved quickly and were wonderful - but difficulty came in substantiating the abuse. When B's 4-year old was pulled into a room with a police offer or a few DCFS staff members, the child (reasonably) had a hard time opening up or telling a consistent story. The DCFS director in charge of the case felt that there was no hard evidence of abuse and didn't want to get in the middle of a parental dispute, so the case was closed.
Eventually, B's child shared the abuse story with his therapist and B was able to capture the child talking about it on camera, so there is a full investigation going on by the police and the family court. B's lawyer suggested that it wasn't worth the effort to contact DCFS again.
I try to look at it as DCFS being overworked and needs to focus on critical or slam-dunk cases (e.g., where they can do the most good with their effort), but the director's response was really demoralizing.
posted by TofuGolem at 7:48 AM on October 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
There are two times that CPS has been involved in the lives of my family members, to come at this from the other point of view.
One situation involved drug abuse and neglect and kids who needed a lot of stuff at the very bottom of Maslow's hierarchy, and the children involved went to live with other family members. I think the overall change was positive, but there are a lot of complicated feelings on everyone's part; I think the amount of support that the kids and families needed was a lot weightier than what CPS provided.
Another situation involved false accusations from a stalker. This made everyone's life worse in a variety of ways (the accusations were false but led to some hyper-defensiveness within the family that I think did some long-term damage), but it did ultimately help in getting legal action taken against the stalker, and the people who looked into the case had the kids' best interests at heart.
The common thread in both situations was that the CPS staff looking into the situation both wanted to do right by the kids, and had the time/money budget to do very little, which made for a less effective approach than might otherwise have been taken. If I was at the point where I was trying to decide if calling CPS would be the right thing to do, I'd think I was probably well past the point where they should have been called already.
posted by tchemgrrl at 7:53 AM on October 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
One situation involved drug abuse and neglect and kids who needed a lot of stuff at the very bottom of Maslow's hierarchy, and the children involved went to live with other family members. I think the overall change was positive, but there are a lot of complicated feelings on everyone's part; I think the amount of support that the kids and families needed was a lot weightier than what CPS provided.
Another situation involved false accusations from a stalker. This made everyone's life worse in a variety of ways (the accusations were false but led to some hyper-defensiveness within the family that I think did some long-term damage), but it did ultimately help in getting legal action taken against the stalker, and the people who looked into the case had the kids' best interests at heart.
The common thread in both situations was that the CPS staff looking into the situation both wanted to do right by the kids, and had the time/money budget to do very little, which made for a less effective approach than might otherwise have been taken. If I was at the point where I was trying to decide if calling CPS would be the right thing to do, I'd think I was probably well past the point where they should have been called already.
posted by tchemgrrl at 7:53 AM on October 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
On a personal note: I was
a kid where DCFS was never involved in my life or my brothers. Without question we should not have lived with one of my caregivers. The things I was telling people about my home life was just a tiny piece of the whole picture, and it's only as an adult that I understood that my deep fear of social services was rooted in my abuser teaching me that foster care was the worst place ever and that even worse things would happen to me there. I had decent grandparents that could have taken us in, and I likely would have had a much more stable life and possibly a decrease in mental health issues.
It is quite possible that I would have gotten worse mental health care overall, though based on the fact that my parental
abuser had a really nice health plan I used for lots and lots of mental health care until I was 24 and could no longer be on the plan. Which is a wierd thing to think about.
Anyway, there are a wide variety of scenarios and situations of people who end up (our don't!) in care.
posted by AlexiaSky at 8:09 AM on October 15, 2021 [5 favorites]
a kid where DCFS was never involved in my life or my brothers. Without question we should not have lived with one of my caregivers. The things I was telling people about my home life was just a tiny piece of the whole picture, and it's only as an adult that I understood that my deep fear of social services was rooted in my abuser teaching me that foster care was the worst place ever and that even worse things would happen to me there. I had decent grandparents that could have taken us in, and I likely would have had a much more stable life and possibly a decrease in mental health issues.
It is quite possible that I would have gotten worse mental health care overall, though based on the fact that my parental
abuser had a really nice health plan I used for lots and lots of mental health care until I was 24 and could no longer be on the plan. Which is a wierd thing to think about.
Anyway, there are a wide variety of scenarios and situations of people who end up (our don't!) in care.
posted by AlexiaSky at 8:09 AM on October 15, 2021 [5 favorites]
They were called on my family out of a concern for my safety. Nothing was done. Things got worse.
DCFS/similar is a vital but imperfect and under resourced program. It saves a lot of lives but not all of them. There is definitely a lot of prejudice in some of the decisions. You don’t see a lot of children removed from the home of two white (or white passing) physicians, which was my home situation.
posted by obfuscation at 8:47 AM on October 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
DCFS/similar is a vital but imperfect and under resourced program. It saves a lot of lives but not all of them. There is definitely a lot of prejudice in some of the decisions. You don’t see a lot of children removed from the home of two white (or white passing) physicians, which was my home situation.
posted by obfuscation at 8:47 AM on October 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
Yes sometimes a call is made as mandated, but the evidence is below threshold for them to do much, and then the caregiver retaliates or escalates their abuse. It puts mandated reporters with knowledge of those dynamics in a precarious position at times. In some situations this can be circumvented if the cps worker wishes to avoid those aspects, like only doing an interview at school. But some of them are overworked, biased, or too new to be able to adjust their process to account for those things, which is frustrating.
posted by crunchy potato at 9:21 AM on October 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by crunchy potato at 9:21 AM on October 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
A relative had CPS called on them, for allowing her newish live-in boyfriend to behave abusively towards her children. Nothing earth-shattering at that point, but definitely some problematic behaviors that had the potential to escalate. Attempts by family members to talk to the parents about the situation had been fruitless. CPS made a home visit, and advised the boyfriend to stop doing what he'd been doing. They planned to leave the children in the home with periodic follow up visits to monitor the situation.
However, the mom and boyfriend were enraged at the interference, and the boyfriend in particular "did not like being told what to do". So they told CPS to take the kids and the mom signed a letter stating she was voluntarily giving up her kids to be wards of the state. The kids wound up living with family, but if no one had stepped up they would have gone to foster homes.
I think most parents, even kind of shitty ones, would probably not respond in this fashion. But I just wanted to throw it out there as one possible outcome, because it never even occurred to me that it could go down that way until it actually happened.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 10:56 AM on October 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
However, the mom and boyfriend were enraged at the interference, and the boyfriend in particular "did not like being told what to do". So they told CPS to take the kids and the mom signed a letter stating she was voluntarily giving up her kids to be wards of the state. The kids wound up living with family, but if no one had stepped up they would have gone to foster homes.
I think most parents, even kind of shitty ones, would probably not respond in this fashion. But I just wanted to throw it out there as one possible outcome, because it never even occurred to me that it could go down that way until it actually happened.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 10:56 AM on October 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
CPS came to our house once, when I lived in Texas. I was like 16 at the time and I understood why the social worker was there, and she was very nice and followed all the procedures and stuff appropriately, but I lied about all the abuse and made it seem as though nothing bad had ever happened, because I felt as though the help was arriving too late and because I (like many children) didn't want to see anything bad happen to my parents (I had a lot of ambivalence about them, still do). The social worker probably knew I was lying because she told my parents I was a "very smart girl"-- and then left and that was that. The cops were often at our house too, and the cop's response once to physical assault by my dad to mom was "a man's home is his castle" -- so.
posted by erattacorrige at 11:16 AM on October 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by erattacorrige at 11:16 AM on October 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
Many years ago I lived on the other side of a very thin wall from a woman who was beating her toddler, prompting me to call CPS. I have no idea what transpired, but I never heard her doing it again. Knowing what I know now, I think I would probably be a lot more hesitant but would ultimately make the same call.
posted by HotToddy at 11:22 AM on October 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by HotToddy at 11:22 AM on October 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
Yes, I reported what seemed like emotional abuse. I knew from other sources that the child was already receiving Early Help services (UK - step before statutory intervention by social care). I don't know the outcome but would be surprised if services were able to improve things for this specific child - seemed like a complex case, child was already around 8, EH and social care services were not functioning well locally at the time.
A family member who has worked for decades as a social worker, though not directly with children and families for all of that time, thinks that she improved outcomes for maybe one child during her working life.
I would always report again if I had concerns. Suspect the answers you get will be very location-specific. There is lots of UK research about outcomes for children in need and children looked after (in care) if you are interested.
posted by paduasoy at 12:08 PM on October 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
A family member who has worked for decades as a social worker, though not directly with children and families for all of that time, thinks that she improved outcomes for maybe one child during her working life.
I would always report again if I had concerns. Suspect the answers you get will be very location-specific. There is lots of UK research about outcomes for children in need and children looked after (in care) if you are interested.
posted by paduasoy at 12:08 PM on October 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks everyone for your responses so far. I am interested research because I really want to understand more about this issue. The removal of children from their homes and separation from their parents, if it comes to that, seems to create a lot of trauma. As far as I can tell, the outcomes for children placed in foster care do not tend to be great, at least in the United States. I am sure many people are working hard to keep children safe and that children’s lives are improved or saved by interventions. But contacting social services does not seem to be an unalloyed good thing in many cases. I am in a pickle and I don’t know what to do.
posted by Bella Donna at 12:58 PM on October 15, 2021
posted by Bella Donna at 12:58 PM on October 15, 2021
So someone can lose their children due to an allegation of physical abuse, but never be found guilty for assualt of a child. Totally different court systems.
Different in the same way that civil and criminal court are different. Quite reasonably, the level of proof required is lower to remove a child than it is to convict someone - same reason that OJ Simpson was not found guilty of murder in criminal court but was in civil court.
B's lawyer suggested that it wasn't worth the effort to contact DCFS again.
A criminal child abuse case has absolutely definitely been reported to DCFS. They aren't going to step in unless there's some need to change the child's living situation.
posted by bashing rocks together at 1:15 PM on October 15, 2021
Different in the same way that civil and criminal court are different. Quite reasonably, the level of proof required is lower to remove a child than it is to convict someone - same reason that OJ Simpson was not found guilty of murder in criminal court but was in civil court.
B's lawyer suggested that it wasn't worth the effort to contact DCFS again.
A criminal child abuse case has absolutely definitely been reported to DCFS. They aren't going to step in unless there's some need to change the child's living situation.
posted by bashing rocks together at 1:15 PM on October 15, 2021
You might find some of the research reports from the Rees Centre interesting. And the What Works reports. Worth bearing in mind that the data on outcomes following statutory intervention, certainly in the UK, tend to be focussed on education outcomes because that's the most accessible data. There's a lot more that's harder to measure.
posted by paduasoy at 1:24 PM on October 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by paduasoy at 1:24 PM on October 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
Research on Swedish child welfare:
An overview (2021): In this article, we examine this criticism, how it has been institutionally managed, and raise the question of whether there is reason to speak about a current crisis.
Swedish child welfare law leaves more action to the discretion of the local region and even to the individual worker than US law, so for a better perspective you would want to look up the municipality of the specific child.
posted by bashing rocks together at 1:35 PM on October 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
An overview (2021): In this article, we examine this criticism, how it has been institutionally managed, and raise the question of whether there is reason to speak about a current crisis.
Swedish child welfare law leaves more action to the discretion of the local region and even to the individual worker than US law, so for a better perspective you would want to look up the municipality of the specific child.
posted by bashing rocks together at 1:35 PM on October 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
I have a friend who left an abusive relationship when her kids were young. Because of the abuse in the home, she was referred to CPS. She has talked to me about finding the services she and her kids received very helpful—even though there was an initial element of blame re: the abuse they suffered, she was provided with parenting classes, home management/organization classes, and other services that helped her make the transition to parenting and living independently.
I have another friend whose children were taken from the home and placed with her parents. It was traumatic and horrible for her and the kids. She was faced with dilemmas like knowing that her parents were spanking the kids, which is against the rules, but knowing that if she spoke up and the kids were removed from their grandparents' home, there was almost no chance they'd be able to stay together (she has seven children). It was an interesting situation for me because I did have concerns about certain aspects of her parenting, and watching what she and her family went through kind of raised the bar for me in terms of what I would consider actionable—whatever her shortcomings, I had no doubt her kids would have been better off with her than without her.
Still, even she said that some of the supports she got during the time her family was involved with CPS were helpful to her. If she'd been able to access those supports without her kids being removed, that would have been much better, but they had a caseworker who overreached, removing the kids before the agency's own guidelines would have warranted it.
Her case was an example of how CPS complaints can be used as a tool of harassment—she had a neighbor who disapproved of her having so many kids and homeschooling them, and who seems to have made many calls to CPS.
posted by Orlop at 1:43 PM on October 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
I have another friend whose children were taken from the home and placed with her parents. It was traumatic and horrible for her and the kids. She was faced with dilemmas like knowing that her parents were spanking the kids, which is against the rules, but knowing that if she spoke up and the kids were removed from their grandparents' home, there was almost no chance they'd be able to stay together (she has seven children). It was an interesting situation for me because I did have concerns about certain aspects of her parenting, and watching what she and her family went through kind of raised the bar for me in terms of what I would consider actionable—whatever her shortcomings, I had no doubt her kids would have been better off with her than without her.
Still, even she said that some of the supports she got during the time her family was involved with CPS were helpful to her. If she'd been able to access those supports without her kids being removed, that would have been much better, but they had a caseworker who overreached, removing the kids before the agency's own guidelines would have warranted it.
Her case was an example of how CPS complaints can be used as a tool of harassment—she had a neighbor who disapproved of her having so many kids and homeschooling them, and who seems to have made many calls to CPS.
posted by Orlop at 1:43 PM on October 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
Think in my case, because the girl was 12 or 13 years old, she was received as a more reliable witness than a small child or an observant adult questioning odd behavior. She was old enough to speak for herself, as it were.
I knew of another similar case, where a grandmotherly woman ran a daycare, and her husband had been abusing the children. Her granddaughter, at age 12, finally spoke to a school counselor about it (mandated reporter), and he did go to prison for the rest of his life. The local parents were up in arms, as she'd been highly recommended by many people, but a lot of the children were so young that they couldn't properly vocalize what had happened to them. Parents gathered en masse at the State Attorney's office to make sure he was prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 4:19 PM on October 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
I knew of another similar case, where a grandmotherly woman ran a daycare, and her husband had been abusing the children. Her granddaughter, at age 12, finally spoke to a school counselor about it (mandated reporter), and he did go to prison for the rest of his life. The local parents were up in arms, as she'd been highly recommended by many people, but a lot of the children were so young that they couldn't properly vocalize what had happened to them. Parents gathered en masse at the State Attorney's office to make sure he was prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 4:19 PM on October 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
I will say, at first I was shocked, and didn't want to believe it. Then I sat down with the girl, and quietly listened to her story. She was very shaken about it all, and I finally convinced her to go to the police station with me and tell her story. We sat together in a windowless room for quite a while, and thanks be to whatever gods there are in heaven, the police took her story seriously, and upon investigation, found it to be true and saved her and her little sister from that guy. I am really glad that my daughter was so insistent, and told me I had to listen. Bless her heart.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 4:32 PM on October 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 4:32 PM on October 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
I would guess it's different by people/location, and you really have NO idea how it's going to turn out if you call. I guess you have to think out the following: (a) how bad is the situation--is this kid on the bottom of the Maslow pyramid? (b) are they straight up in danger or living in literal poop*, (c) what happens if you call and nothing happens, (d) is the situation so bad that living in foster care with complete strangers would be an improvement?
* my ex's friend was a kid where CPS was called in because they were literally living in cat poop. They were moved to live with some relative and were MUCH happier.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:42 PM on October 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
* my ex's friend was a kid where CPS was called in because they were literally living in cat poop. They were moved to live with some relative and were MUCH happier.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:42 PM on October 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
I guess my question is that you are an adult, and there may be a vulnerable child involved, and you are hesitant to get involved. And want to know if you get child protective services involved, if that will help or harm the child. Do you know active harm is happening to the child right now? Like active physical abuse? What is your concern? Why are you hesitating to report it?
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 8:13 PM on October 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 8:13 PM on October 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
The CPS visit to my house when I was a kid made things much worse in the short term because CPS didn’t do anything except interview everyone in my household and then leave us with our riled parents.
But as an adult the CPS visit memory helped me deal with my childhood faster because it helped me believe I wasn’t exaggerating the abuse or making it up.
posted by congen at 8:52 PM on October 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
But as an adult the CPS visit memory helped me deal with my childhood faster because it helped me believe I wasn’t exaggerating the abuse or making it up.
posted by congen at 8:52 PM on October 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
DCFS can help without necessarily removing the child from the situation.
Some things, short of full child removal, that DCFS provides when alerted to abuse or neglect, in at least some places: providing parents with limited cash grants for furniture for the children, or for arrears rent payments; full-time housekeeping for parents who are unable to keep their homes hygienic; specific assistance to parents in applying for public benefits (some parents have trouble with the applications); parenting coaches in 1:1 sessions for many months; psychotherapy; and assistance in relocating to safer housing, among others.
posted by luckdragon at 7:23 PM on October 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
Some things, short of full child removal, that DCFS provides when alerted to abuse or neglect, in at least some places: providing parents with limited cash grants for furniture for the children, or for arrears rent payments; full-time housekeeping for parents who are unable to keep their homes hygienic; specific assistance to parents in applying for public benefits (some parents have trouble with the applications); parenting coaches in 1:1 sessions for many months; psychotherapy; and assistance in relocating to safer housing, among others.
posted by luckdragon at 7:23 PM on October 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
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If there is a suitable family placement, I believe the threshold goes down somewhat, as there is an easy place for the children to go.
It often depends on politics in the area; if the abuser is in with the legal system it can be more difficult.
I was in an area where there was one CPS worker for like 3 counties in a rural setting, in a state with not much of a budget to work with. Incidents of abuse can be much higher in rural areas due to lack of incidental contact with others. That may be why the threshold for intervention was so high there. One worker for 3 rural counties is not realistic.
posted by crunchy potato at 5:30 AM on October 15, 2021 [4 favorites]