Resolving a leaky gas range
September 10, 2021 2:39 PM Subscribe
I bought a house and after moving in noticed the strong smell of natural gas in the kitchen. The gas company came out and confirmed that the GE gas range, and nothing else in the house, had a gas leak. After two service calls with official GE repair techs, the issue is worse than ever and I'd like help figuring out what my recourse is.
Prior to moving in, the house was unoccupied and the range hadn't been used since the home inspection, about a month and a half prior. Pretty instantly after moving in it was clear that there was a strong smell of natural gas that wasn't going away on its own.
When I called the gas company, they sent someone out within a half hour. Using flammable gas detectors and soapy water, they identified that the regulator connected to the gas supply on the rear of the range was leaking. They turned off the gas supply on the wall behind the range, and confirmed that the supply lines and other gas appliances weren't also leaking. They left a tag with this info wired onto the oven door. We didn't smell gas after the wall supply was shut off.
I called GE appliances official service line, and they scheduled a service call around 2 weeks later. Before even taking a look, the repair technician said "it's never a gas leak" and that the gas company "will always say they found a leak even when there isn't one." He pulled the range out and used his gas detector, but it was clearly broken, as it beeped whenever he moved it (I later did some research and found out those devices need to be regularly replaced). He also couldn't find the leak using the soapy water, didn't read the tag, and refused to believe that I has smelled gas before I used the range, insisting that the gas company was lying. He eventually ordered a new regulator, but only after saying "I hate replacing things that aren't broken."
I really hated getting gas-lit about a gas leak! I called GE and requested a different tech be sent next time and the person I spoke to said they would note it on the file, but on the day of the next appointment, the same original tech called to say he was on his way. I politely requested that he not keep the appointment and to schedule a new one with a different tech. To his credit, he set one up for a few days later without issue.
This morning, a different tech arrived to install the regulator. He claimed that the original must have been improperly installed with teflon tape, instead of pipe dope, and installed the replacement regulator. He tested that the stove and oven worked, but did not check for further leaks. Although it smelled strongly of gas, he claimed that it was the result of testing the burners and that it would go away once they were turned off.
After he left, the smell of gas was overpowering even with the range having been left off for 2 or 3 hours. I pulled the range out, turned off the gas supply, aired out the house, and the smell went away. Clearly, the leak is still there. I'm really angry that two techs refused to acknowledge a fairly serious safety issue and I'd like GE to make this right.
Here are my two questions:
What's a reasonable ask to make this right? I think the two repair technicians are the only official GE repair people in my area, so sending a third won't happen. I don't trust either of them to actually fix the issue and after already spending $400, I don't particularly want to pay GE any more money for it.
I'm not entirely sure, but I think the range is out of warranty. I don't have any proof of purchase, since the range came with the house. It probably was purchased around 4 or 5 years ago.
In a perfect world, I'd request a like-for-like replacement, but I doubt GE will go for that (although if they did they would have a very happy future customer). At the very bare minimum, I'd like a refund for the service calls. What should I be asking for when I contact GE?
Secondly, what's the best way to ask for this? I called the appliance service line, they transferred me to the customer service line which left me on hold for over an hour before I gave up. I'm happy to try Twitter or e-mail if those would work best. What approach should I take when communicating? Should I approach this from the perspective of a "loyal but disappointed" GE customer? Should I just ask for the refund and buy a different brand?
Prior to moving in, the house was unoccupied and the range hadn't been used since the home inspection, about a month and a half prior. Pretty instantly after moving in it was clear that there was a strong smell of natural gas that wasn't going away on its own.
When I called the gas company, they sent someone out within a half hour. Using flammable gas detectors and soapy water, they identified that the regulator connected to the gas supply on the rear of the range was leaking. They turned off the gas supply on the wall behind the range, and confirmed that the supply lines and other gas appliances weren't also leaking. They left a tag with this info wired onto the oven door. We didn't smell gas after the wall supply was shut off.
I called GE appliances official service line, and they scheduled a service call around 2 weeks later. Before even taking a look, the repair technician said "it's never a gas leak" and that the gas company "will always say they found a leak even when there isn't one." He pulled the range out and used his gas detector, but it was clearly broken, as it beeped whenever he moved it (I later did some research and found out those devices need to be regularly replaced). He also couldn't find the leak using the soapy water, didn't read the tag, and refused to believe that I has smelled gas before I used the range, insisting that the gas company was lying. He eventually ordered a new regulator, but only after saying "I hate replacing things that aren't broken."
I really hated getting gas-lit about a gas leak! I called GE and requested a different tech be sent next time and the person I spoke to said they would note it on the file, but on the day of the next appointment, the same original tech called to say he was on his way. I politely requested that he not keep the appointment and to schedule a new one with a different tech. To his credit, he set one up for a few days later without issue.
This morning, a different tech arrived to install the regulator. He claimed that the original must have been improperly installed with teflon tape, instead of pipe dope, and installed the replacement regulator. He tested that the stove and oven worked, but did not check for further leaks. Although it smelled strongly of gas, he claimed that it was the result of testing the burners and that it would go away once they were turned off.
After he left, the smell of gas was overpowering even with the range having been left off for 2 or 3 hours. I pulled the range out, turned off the gas supply, aired out the house, and the smell went away. Clearly, the leak is still there. I'm really angry that two techs refused to acknowledge a fairly serious safety issue and I'd like GE to make this right.
Here are my two questions:
What's a reasonable ask to make this right? I think the two repair technicians are the only official GE repair people in my area, so sending a third won't happen. I don't trust either of them to actually fix the issue and after already spending $400, I don't particularly want to pay GE any more money for it.
I'm not entirely sure, but I think the range is out of warranty. I don't have any proof of purchase, since the range came with the house. It probably was purchased around 4 or 5 years ago.
In a perfect world, I'd request a like-for-like replacement, but I doubt GE will go for that (although if they did they would have a very happy future customer). At the very bare minimum, I'd like a refund for the service calls. What should I be asking for when I contact GE?
Secondly, what's the best way to ask for this? I called the appliance service line, they transferred me to the customer service line which left me on hold for over an hour before I gave up. I'm happy to try Twitter or e-mail if those would work best. What approach should I take when communicating? Should I approach this from the perspective of a "loyal but disappointed" GE customer? Should I just ask for the refund and buy a different brand?
I would definitely run this past a plumber who works on gas.
posted by Lyn Never at 2:57 PM on September 10, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Lyn Never at 2:57 PM on September 10, 2021 [3 favorites]
A good, gas-certified plumber should be able to fix this easily. Generally speaking, a plumber, rather than the gas supplier or the appliance manufacturer, is the person to call to fix these things. Connecting up gas ranges and ensuring they don't leak is something they do every day.
posted by pipeski at 3:27 PM on September 10, 2021 [17 favorites]
posted by pipeski at 3:27 PM on September 10, 2021 [17 favorites]
If you're certain that the leak is indeed in the stove itself and not in the flex gas line or wall shutoff valve, you could try going with an independent appliance technician. Given that it's out of warranty, there's no reason to go for a GE tech. If the other tech is able to resolve or at least document the issue you've got something to show GE when you're attempting to claw back the money you spent on service calls.
I don't really think a plumber/gas fitter is going to be changing components on a stove (gas solenoid valves, regulators and such.) My understanding is that their purview stops at the stove end of the gas flex line, but I could be wrong.
Asking for a full refund of the money you spent for service calls that failed to resolve the problem is entirely reasonable. Asking for a new stove when it's out of warranty is not.
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 4:56 PM on September 10, 2021 [2 favorites]
I don't really think a plumber/gas fitter is going to be changing components on a stove (gas solenoid valves, regulators and such.) My understanding is that their purview stops at the stove end of the gas flex line, but I could be wrong.
Asking for a full refund of the money you spent for service calls that failed to resolve the problem is entirely reasonable. Asking for a new stove when it's out of warranty is not.
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 4:56 PM on September 10, 2021 [2 favorites]
also, before your next service call, whether it's a plumber or an appliance tech, be sure to turn on the gas supply to the stove before they roll up so they smell gas and take the problem seriously.
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 4:59 PM on September 10, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 4:59 PM on September 10, 2021 [1 favorite]
This is how you get on the news as a mysterious house explosion. Natural Gas doesn't smell, they put smelly things in it to make it smell. It seems you know this and have covered the OMG shut off the gas and open the windows bit rather well.
the regulator connected to the gas supply on the rear of the range was leaking. They turned off the gas supply on the wall behind the range, and confirmed that the supply lines and other gas appliances weren't also leaking.
Fuck every body else.
it's never a gas leak
Fuck them.
hated getting gas-lit about a gas leak!
Fuck them. Call the gas company again. This is how you get your house exploded.
What's a reasonable ask to make this right?
Fuck them, call the gas company again and tell them this. Let them shit talk back and forth while you (or they) have turned the gas off to non-smell. They can be more vicious than you. This is how you end up with a house exploding. Take no prisoners.
what's the best way to ask for this?
Bitch at the gas company, tell them all this, turn off the gas. They *will* fix this to avoid the exploding house that makes the news. Nobody wants your house to go boom. Make that clear in your communications with the parties involved.
Three options: it's in the house lines; it's in the valve; it's in the stove. Easy peasy.
Bitch at them like I would. This is how you get boom, shame them into fixing it.
posted by zengargoyle at 6:33 PM on September 10, 2021 [4 favorites]
the regulator connected to the gas supply on the rear of the range was leaking. They turned off the gas supply on the wall behind the range, and confirmed that the supply lines and other gas appliances weren't also leaking.
Fuck every body else.
it's never a gas leak
Fuck them.
hated getting gas-lit about a gas leak!
Fuck them. Call the gas company again. This is how you get your house exploded.
What's a reasonable ask to make this right?
Fuck them, call the gas company again and tell them this. Let them shit talk back and forth while you (or they) have turned the gas off to non-smell. They can be more vicious than you. This is how you end up with a house exploding. Take no prisoners.
what's the best way to ask for this?
Bitch at the gas company, tell them all this, turn off the gas. They *will* fix this to avoid the exploding house that makes the news. Nobody wants your house to go boom. Make that clear in your communications with the parties involved.
Three options: it's in the house lines; it's in the valve; it's in the stove. Easy peasy.
Bitch at them like I would. This is how you get boom, shame them into fixing it.
posted by zengargoyle at 6:33 PM on September 10, 2021 [4 favorites]
Don't call the gas company, there's nothing more they can do. Best case, they do nothing; worse case, they turn off gas to the whole house until you get a new range.
Can you try the soapy water test yourself? Do you see bubbles on the newly-installed regulator? If so, I think you are justified in getting the second tech to come back and finish the job or refund you.
If there is no leak there, the further leak isn't really his fault; maybe he could or should have done better, but he did perform the labor of replacing the regulator properly. My local craigslist has many gas ranges under $100, try another and stop pouring money down this hole. If you want, get a plumber appropriately certified to install gas line to install your appliance. They have the tools to check for leaks (pressure gauges, for example) and can likely accomplish confirm you won't have leaks if you want them to, but it might cost as much as buying a new appliance...
posted by flimflam at 7:52 PM on September 10, 2021 [1 favorite]
Can you try the soapy water test yourself? Do you see bubbles on the newly-installed regulator? If so, I think you are justified in getting the second tech to come back and finish the job or refund you.
If there is no leak there, the further leak isn't really his fault; maybe he could or should have done better, but he did perform the labor of replacing the regulator properly. My local craigslist has many gas ranges under $100, try another and stop pouring money down this hole. If you want, get a plumber appropriately certified to install gas line to install your appliance. They have the tools to check for leaks (pressure gauges, for example) and can likely accomplish confirm you won't have leaks if you want them to, but it might cost as much as buying a new appliance...
posted by flimflam at 7:52 PM on September 10, 2021 [1 favorite]
honestly I'd say cut your losses and get an induction stove.
posted by dum spiro spero at 8:51 PM on September 10, 2021
posted by dum spiro spero at 8:51 PM on September 10, 2021
Response by poster: Here are some images to hopefully clarify what I'm talking about.
Full connection from wall to range
Closer view of the gas line shutoff at the wall
The newly installed regulator, the blue stuff is the pipe dope the technician applied when installing it. You can see the remains of the yellow teflon tape that he mostly took off. Honestly, this looks pretty sketchy to me.
The gas company said they checked the whole line from the wall to the regulator and didn't find any leaks on supply line or the shut off valve. From personal experience there's definitely no leak "before" or at the shut off (the wall side), since when it's off there's absolutely no smell.
I shoved my face back there when the first tech was denying a leak, and with the gas turned on, it was only the area around the old regulator that smelled, not near the wall. I feel like that narrows it down to the regulator and the connections to and from the regulator.
As for next steps, I'm going to try the soapy water test and sniff around back there before I call an independent repair person or a plumber and try to narrow it down myself. I think buying a new range is off the table for the moment, this is a fancy double-oven model that retailed for around $3000 new and although I'd love an equivalent replacement or induction range I'd rather not drop that money at this point.
I'd still like answers as to what I can reasonably ask GE to make this right and the best way to go about it. It sounds like if I show that GE's repair was faulty, I should have honest grounds to get a refund.
posted by WhollyMatrimony at 9:32 PM on September 10, 2021
Full connection from wall to range
Closer view of the gas line shutoff at the wall
The newly installed regulator, the blue stuff is the pipe dope the technician applied when installing it. You can see the remains of the yellow teflon tape that he mostly took off. Honestly, this looks pretty sketchy to me.
The gas company said they checked the whole line from the wall to the regulator and didn't find any leaks on supply line or the shut off valve. From personal experience there's definitely no leak "before" or at the shut off (the wall side), since when it's off there's absolutely no smell.
I shoved my face back there when the first tech was denying a leak, and with the gas turned on, it was only the area around the old regulator that smelled, not near the wall. I feel like that narrows it down to the regulator and the connections to and from the regulator.
As for next steps, I'm going to try the soapy water test and sniff around back there before I call an independent repair person or a plumber and try to narrow it down myself. I think buying a new range is off the table for the moment, this is a fancy double-oven model that retailed for around $3000 new and although I'd love an equivalent replacement or induction range I'd rather not drop that money at this point.
I'd still like answers as to what I can reasonably ask GE to make this right and the best way to go about it. It sounds like if I show that GE's repair was faulty, I should have honest grounds to get a refund.
posted by WhollyMatrimony at 9:32 PM on September 10, 2021
Call your attorney general's office and find out who provides any consumer advocacy here. Public Utilities Commission, maybe. This is a genuinely unsafe situation. GE needs to fix it or replace it.
posted by theora55 at 9:36 PM on September 10, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by theora55 at 9:36 PM on September 10, 2021 [1 favorite]
Take more photos, and when the licensed plumber visits, ask them to document previous repair missteps. With that information in hand, approach GE to request a refund of your $400.
[In case it helps: double-check the surface controls. GE model PGS950EEFES offers a "Control Lock Safety Feature;" in the owner's manual, under 'cooktop safety instructions': When disabling Lock Control (on some models), make sure the surface controls are set to the OFF position. This will prevent unintended gas flow from the burners.]
GE providing a new range is not in the cards. This appliance, manufactured sometime between October 2014 and July 2017, came with a limited one-year warranty which began on the original date of purchase. (The original owner might have opted for an extended warranty, but it did not convey when you purchased the house.)
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:11 PM on September 10, 2021 [1 favorite]
[In case it helps: double-check the surface controls. GE model PGS950EEFES offers a "Control Lock Safety Feature;" in the owner's manual, under 'cooktop safety instructions': When disabling Lock Control (on some models), make sure the surface controls are set to the OFF position. This will prevent unintended gas flow from the burners.]
GE providing a new range is not in the cards. This appliance, manufactured sometime between October 2014 and July 2017, came with a limited one-year warranty which began on the original date of purchase. (The original owner might have opted for an extended warranty, but it did not convey when you purchased the house.)
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:11 PM on September 10, 2021 [1 favorite]
Did you replace the entire flex line? It may be kinking when you push the stove back into place; that looks like a pretty tight angle at the base and I'm wondering if that may be an issue.
I don't know where you live, but here in NJ, my utility (PSE&G) has an option where you can have them come out and look at your appliances for repair. I pay a very small monthly amount to have several of them covered and they have saved my ass numerous times. They've resurrected my 17yo refrigerator from being dead so many times (oddly enough, also GE), we actually call it Jesus.
One other thought - when we bought our house, it came with a free year of 'home warranty' coverage, specifically covering shit like this. Did you happen to look at your closing papers to see if your realtor threw in something like this?
posted by dancinglamb at 2:09 PM on September 11, 2021
I don't know where you live, but here in NJ, my utility (PSE&G) has an option where you can have them come out and look at your appliances for repair. I pay a very small monthly amount to have several of them covered and they have saved my ass numerous times. They've resurrected my 17yo refrigerator from being dead so many times (oddly enough, also GE), we actually call it Jesus.
One other thought - when we bought our house, it came with a free year of 'home warranty' coverage, specifically covering shit like this. Did you happen to look at your closing papers to see if your realtor threw in something like this?
posted by dancinglamb at 2:09 PM on September 11, 2021
Please do not try to diagnose this yourself. Respectfully, if you are asking for advice on a forum like this, it suggests you are not a gas-certified plumbing expert. Have you seen the little ignitors on a gas barbecue, or perhaps on your stove burners? The little tick-tick-tick spark igniter? It takes a ridiculously small spark to ignite gas, especially in a confined space. That spark could come from anywhere, even a residual static charge. (Ever get a shock from walking across the carpet and touching a door knob?)
Please, call the gas company again, make them aware of what the GE techs did and didn't do, and don't let the gas company rep leave until you are satisfied that it has been fixed, or they have identified the issue and developed a plan to correct it. They can be the heavy hitters for getting this issue resolved.
I would insist that GE make necessary repairs so that the gas company rep is satisfied with the result. Heck, would it be possible to get both of them out there at the same time? Let the gas company rep watch the GE tech and either approve or call bullshit on whatever they're doing?
posted by xedrik at 8:17 AM on September 12, 2021
Please, call the gas company again, make them aware of what the GE techs did and didn't do, and don't let the gas company rep leave until you are satisfied that it has been fixed, or they have identified the issue and developed a plan to correct it. They can be the heavy hitters for getting this issue resolved.
I would insist that GE make necessary repairs so that the gas company rep is satisfied with the result. Heck, would it be possible to get both of them out there at the same time? Let the gas company rep watch the GE tech and either approve or call bullshit on whatever they're doing?
posted by xedrik at 8:17 AM on September 12, 2021
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It's possible that both the gas company and GE are in the right here - the gas company can investigate where the leak is but not the mechanism of the leak, and they might not have the ability to determine whether it was in the range proper or with the valve or gas line immediately adjacent to that range.
posted by eschatfische at 2:55 PM on September 10, 2021 [8 favorites]