Ballparking Home Renovation Costs
February 28, 2021 11:38 AM Subscribe
How does one roughly estimate renovation costs when house hunting?
We're first-time home buyers in the SF Bay Area and trying to figure out how to ballpark common renovations so that we can better decide between more expensive houses that appear not to need anything done and cheaper houses that need some work. For example, what's the range to add on a bathroom (adding new space rather than building within)? How about to fully renovate a bathroom? A kitchen? Don't get me wrong, I understand that tons of factors can play into it and that no one can provide a truly accurate cost without specifics, but even general ranges would be helpful - like are we talking $30k or $150k? I know that there are various websites that have national averages, but I'm not sure how being in the Bay Area may impact things (increased labor costs?) Is it possible to pay a contractor (or someone else?) for an hour or two of their time just to talk to them about this? If not, how do you figure it out?
We're first-time home buyers in the SF Bay Area and trying to figure out how to ballpark common renovations so that we can better decide between more expensive houses that appear not to need anything done and cheaper houses that need some work. For example, what's the range to add on a bathroom (adding new space rather than building within)? How about to fully renovate a bathroom? A kitchen? Don't get me wrong, I understand that tons of factors can play into it and that no one can provide a truly accurate cost without specifics, but even general ranges would be helpful - like are we talking $30k or $150k? I know that there are various websites that have national averages, but I'm not sure how being in the Bay Area may impact things (increased labor costs?) Is it possible to pay a contractor (or someone else?) for an hour or two of their time just to talk to them about this? If not, how do you figure it out?
I'd pay a contractor to walk a couple houses with you and potentially generate a rough estimate. After you've seen the costs for a few homes, you'll be able to ballpark them yourselves. Then once you're under contract you could potentially pay the contractor to put together a detailed estimate (or maybe get that for free if the work would start imminently and you'd consider working with this contractor).
You'll need to figure out how to give them a sense of what you want. For example, flooring for a bathroom can vary from $1 to as much as you want to pay per square foot. The labor cost will stay the same, as will the generic supplies (e.g., if you're installing tile, the thinset mortar cost will stay the same), but you'll want to give them a sense of whether you're okay with whatever tile is on sale at Home Depot that day or whether you're going to want something hand painted by an artisan.
Aside from materials, you're going to want to think about whether the kitchen remodel is just swapping out those materials (better cabinets and flooring) or whether it involves bigger changes. It costs one thing to buy a new light fixture (well, not "one thing" -- it can vary from $89-$1,000) and another thing to rewire to change the location of the lights or add more.
That's why walking some properties with someone to talk through what you'd want to do and then letting them go back and do a little math for you would probably be best. And if you spend some time going through materials (e.g., on Home Depot's website) you'll be able to give them a sense of what you want and what things cost.
posted by slidell at 1:51 PM on February 28, 2021 [5 favorites]
You'll need to figure out how to give them a sense of what you want. For example, flooring for a bathroom can vary from $1 to as much as you want to pay per square foot. The labor cost will stay the same, as will the generic supplies (e.g., if you're installing tile, the thinset mortar cost will stay the same), but you'll want to give them a sense of whether you're okay with whatever tile is on sale at Home Depot that day or whether you're going to want something hand painted by an artisan.
Aside from materials, you're going to want to think about whether the kitchen remodel is just swapping out those materials (better cabinets and flooring) or whether it involves bigger changes. It costs one thing to buy a new light fixture (well, not "one thing" -- it can vary from $89-$1,000) and another thing to rewire to change the location of the lights or add more.
That's why walking some properties with someone to talk through what you'd want to do and then letting them go back and do a little math for you would probably be best. And if you spend some time going through materials (e.g., on Home Depot's website) you'll be able to give them a sense of what you want and what things cost.
posted by slidell at 1:51 PM on February 28, 2021 [5 favorites]
The nice thing about the Bay Area is that there are some stores that offer real deals on materials. The downside is that labor costs are higher.
posted by slidell at 1:52 PM on February 28, 2021
posted by slidell at 1:52 PM on February 28, 2021
Before we bought this house we had a contractor come over and give us a very rough number to make a big Chang (adding a room above a space).
In retrospect we should have offered him fifty bucks for his half hour visit: he really helped us understand the cost and implications.
posted by wenestvedt at 2:03 PM on February 28, 2021
In retrospect we should have offered him fifty bucks for his half hour visit: he really helped us understand the cost and implications.
posted by wenestvedt at 2:03 PM on February 28, 2021
I agree with slidell; I did what they suggest with two houses after each offer had been accepted. The walk-through doesn't cost much and you learn so much more than you would from the typical house inspectors. A contractor can tell you how easy/difficult it would be to get permits and can suggest cheaper alternatives to what you might be imagining. Even better, you'll get a very good sense of whether you'd want to hire them to do the work.
posted by wryly at 2:09 PM on February 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by wryly at 2:09 PM on February 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
We had really similar questions when we were house shopping in Seattle. Because we were remote (and also because it was in the middle of COVID, fun times) we weren’t able to hire a local contractor to walk through with us. Also, contractors in this town are busy AF (as we’ve since discovered), and I’m not sure we could have found one willing to take on that kind of task even if we had been in town at the time.
Anywho, because of these issues and our absolute ignorance about renovations and costs, we ended up buying something that needed nothing immediate since trying to figure out how to factor in the cost of necessary renovation projects was proving too stressful on top of everything else.
Now, having lived here nearly a year (!!), we’re tackling our first renovation project. As you said, costs vary wildly based on materials and extent of work, but just to give you one piece of anecdata from a market that is probably somewhat similar to SF: we are gutting our small-ish master bathroom (moving a door, tearing out all existing floor and fixtures, adding a nice tub and upgrading other fixtures) and having a few small carpentry projects done elsewhere in the house (adding some built-in bookshelves in the living room; building a bench and some storage in the mud room) and our baseline quote from our contractor was just over $70,000. We had previously gotten a quote from another contractor which came in around $80,000.
This was pretty shocking to us (as I said, we are VERY green at this), but does not seem to be shocking to the few other people in town we’ve mentioned it to, so I guess it’s probably not wildly out of the ordinary. I’m also PRETTY darn sure that $70,000 is going to end up way low, just based on the costs we’re seeing for fixtures we like compared to what the contractor had allocated in his estimate. My guess is the project will come in much closer to $80 than $70 grand.
We’re also working with a designer to consult on the project, which is another added cost, of course, but worth it for us since we are not gifted or skilled in that area. She’ll probably put in about 15 hours of work for us (based on her estimate) at $100/hour.
posted by Dorinda at 2:41 PM on February 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
Anywho, because of these issues and our absolute ignorance about renovations and costs, we ended up buying something that needed nothing immediate since trying to figure out how to factor in the cost of necessary renovation projects was proving too stressful on top of everything else.
Now, having lived here nearly a year (!!), we’re tackling our first renovation project. As you said, costs vary wildly based on materials and extent of work, but just to give you one piece of anecdata from a market that is probably somewhat similar to SF: we are gutting our small-ish master bathroom (moving a door, tearing out all existing floor and fixtures, adding a nice tub and upgrading other fixtures) and having a few small carpentry projects done elsewhere in the house (adding some built-in bookshelves in the living room; building a bench and some storage in the mud room) and our baseline quote from our contractor was just over $70,000. We had previously gotten a quote from another contractor which came in around $80,000.
This was pretty shocking to us (as I said, we are VERY green at this), but does not seem to be shocking to the few other people in town we’ve mentioned it to, so I guess it’s probably not wildly out of the ordinary. I’m also PRETTY darn sure that $70,000 is going to end up way low, just based on the costs we’re seeing for fixtures we like compared to what the contractor had allocated in his estimate. My guess is the project will come in much closer to $80 than $70 grand.
We’re also working with a designer to consult on the project, which is another added cost, of course, but worth it for us since we are not gifted or skilled in that area. She’ll probably put in about 15 hours of work for us (based on her estimate) at $100/hour.
posted by Dorinda at 2:41 PM on February 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
In the SF Bay Area, I know many more people who quoted and the gave up on renovation projects than actually completed them because the costs are so high. 100k for a kitchen renovation seems to be the floor. Lots of folks I know ended up doing more minor things - redoing flooring themselves, getting a plumber to install a dishwasher - instead of the guts or major expansions they originally hoped for.
Depending on where exactly you are looking, one of the bigger risks is that if you have asbestos in the ceiling (common in 70s construction) and propose anything that will disturb it, you’re in for 10-20k+ of removal/abatement. Similarly, if you open a wall in a house with wiring from the 50s or earlier and find that it’s not up to code (extremely common), you’re likely to need to do some major electrical work to bring it up to code. In SF proper, you’re also likely to find mold because of the all the fog, which is an additional expense to remediate. It can take an extremely long time to pull permits in some areas as well, which sort of adds to the cost and certainly adds to the hassle.
Double any quotes for unforseen issues if it’s not recent construction. Good luck!
posted by A Blue Moon at 3:45 PM on February 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
Depending on where exactly you are looking, one of the bigger risks is that if you have asbestos in the ceiling (common in 70s construction) and propose anything that will disturb it, you’re in for 10-20k+ of removal/abatement. Similarly, if you open a wall in a house with wiring from the 50s or earlier and find that it’s not up to code (extremely common), you’re likely to need to do some major electrical work to bring it up to code. In SF proper, you’re also likely to find mold because of the all the fog, which is an additional expense to remediate. It can take an extremely long time to pull permits in some areas as well, which sort of adds to the cost and certainly adds to the hassle.
Double any quotes for unforseen issues if it’s not recent construction. Good luck!
posted by A Blue Moon at 3:45 PM on February 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
so "renovation" can mean a lot of things and that's one of the reasons it's very hard to get an answer.
For instance, wrt kitchen and bath: there is a world of difference between "spruce up what's there" and "move the layout around so the plumbing and electrical need to be re-done." And then there's a level above that, where it's "move walls around" -- which again, can be minor-ish if the wall isn't load-bearing; or can be a major thing requiring engineering work. And of course there's a level above THAT, where you start breaking exterior walls.
If what you're talking about is "tear out these old cabinets and ugly floor, put in shiny new everything, but leave the layout as it is" that's going to be a fraction of what's involved in moving the framing and plumbing around.
posted by fingersandtoes at 4:23 PM on February 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
For instance, wrt kitchen and bath: there is a world of difference between "spruce up what's there" and "move the layout around so the plumbing and electrical need to be re-done." And then there's a level above that, where it's "move walls around" -- which again, can be minor-ish if the wall isn't load-bearing; or can be a major thing requiring engineering work. And of course there's a level above THAT, where you start breaking exterior walls.
If what you're talking about is "tear out these old cabinets and ugly floor, put in shiny new everything, but leave the layout as it is" that's going to be a fraction of what's involved in moving the framing and plumbing around.
posted by fingersandtoes at 4:23 PM on February 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
There are secific types of home inspectors who work with FHA 203k loans who can also get you estimates on specific work when they do the home inspection your realtor may know them. But I found this website helpful when we were house hunting a few years back https://www.remodelingcalculator.org/.
posted by edbles at 8:47 PM on February 28, 2021
posted by edbles at 8:47 PM on February 28, 2021
If you are talking contractor costs, then the costs of contractors in CA are in-line with the rest of the US. If you want you can add 10%. If you are talking permits, ie for things like adding square footage or a second story, that's where CA is dramatically more complex and expensive than the rest of the US.
So feel free to use national averages for construction costs, but double or triple permitting costs if you are doing something that dramatically alters the footprint of the house.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:57 AM on March 1, 2021
So feel free to use national averages for construction costs, but double or triple permitting costs if you are doing something that dramatically alters the footprint of the house.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:57 AM on March 1, 2021
Also be somewhat careful when comparing 'remodelling costs' to the average US, because in general owning a home across most of the rest of the US is a middle to upper middle class endeavor, but in San Francisco its basically only limited to the upper middle class and higher, so a 'kitchen renovation' for a middle class home owner means something different to someone in the upper class, in terms of materials costs. So basically, saying that the 'average kitchen renovation cost in SF is $100k' could very well be true, but you are comparing a limited subset where the 'average kitchen renovation for the same income bracket in Des Moines IA' would be equally expensive.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:01 AM on March 1, 2021
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:01 AM on March 1, 2021
home inspectors who work with FHA 203k loans who can also get you estimates on specific work
Are these the same ones who inspect work when it's complete to approve draws and authorize payments? If so, proceed with caution. The one we worked with in the Bay Area was problematic and clueless, and we were told that he was one of only two in our sub-area. He may have since retired, but it still speaks to the qualification threshold. I'd rather work with someone who has directly helped a project get built.
posted by slidell at 8:03 AM on March 1, 2021
Are these the same ones who inspect work when it's complete to approve draws and authorize payments? If so, proceed with caution. The one we worked with in the Bay Area was problematic and clueless, and we were told that he was one of only two in our sub-area. He may have since retired, but it still speaks to the qualification threshold. I'd rather work with someone who has directly helped a project get built.
posted by slidell at 8:03 AM on March 1, 2021
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Decide on your budget, and set that number aside. Now ask friends and family for recommendations of contractors, and call them all. A few will call you back; describe your dreams and ask for a ballpark. They will be reluctant to quote sight unseen, but blurting out ANY number will allow you to gauge their reaction.
Get one or two actual quotes. Adjust your dreams to fit tour budget, or else wait forever the market to change. (Materials are VERY expensive these days!!)
We waited like four years to decide what we wanted and that we were ready to pay that much -- and we LOVE our house more than we did before Joe overhauled 2/3 of the ground floor. Worth every cent and I am glad we waited to make up our minds.
posted by wenestvedt at 12:37 PM on February 28, 2021 [2 favorites]