Garage Recording Advice
November 11, 2020 9:11 AM Subscribe
It's been years, but I'm going to record my band and release an album early next year. We're really a live band, so I think that instead of going into a studio it would be better to record tracks ourselves so we can do a bunch of takes and choose the best. I'm looking for advice on how to use the equipment I have to produce tracks I can then give to someone else who knows what they are doing to mix.
Our singer always gets busy at the holidays, so the next couple months will a good chance to get the basic guitar/bass/drums laid down. Only one guitar, and I'm planning to do my leads now because that is how we normally play.
We'll be recording in our bass players garage, which is maybe 20x20. He's lived there for a long time, and there's really no echo problem because there is so much stuff along all the walls and in the rafters.
I have the following to work with:
TASCAM US-1800 USB interface with 8 XLR inputs
2 MXL 990 large diaphragm condenser mics
2 MXL 991 small diaphragm condenser mics
2 Sure Beta 58 and 2 SM58s
I think the most tracks I've recorded at once is four and there were no issues, so my computer should be able to handle it. I have a full version of SONAR because they gave it to me when they stopped supporting the version I paid for.
I'm willing to buy some new equipment if it is essential, but if possible I'd like to save my money for the release.
Our singer always gets busy at the holidays, so the next couple months will a good chance to get the basic guitar/bass/drums laid down. Only one guitar, and I'm planning to do my leads now because that is how we normally play.
We'll be recording in our bass players garage, which is maybe 20x20. He's lived there for a long time, and there's really no echo problem because there is so much stuff along all the walls and in the rafters.
I have the following to work with:
TASCAM US-1800 USB interface with 8 XLR inputs
2 MXL 990 large diaphragm condenser mics
2 MXL 991 small diaphragm condenser mics
2 Sure Beta 58 and 2 SM58s
I think the most tracks I've recorded at once is four and there were no issues, so my computer should be able to handle it. I have a full version of SONAR because they gave it to me when they stopped supporting the version I paid for.
I'm willing to buy some new equipment if it is essential, but if possible I'd like to save my money for the release.
Best answer: Track 1) kick drum, 58
Track 2) snare drum, beta 58
Track 3) drum overhead floor tom side, large condenser
Track 4) drum overhead hi hat side, large condenser
Track 5) bass direct
Track 6) guitar, 58 on amp
Track 7) lead vocal if you need/want it, beta 58.
Optional - make track 3 hi hat with small condenser, move everything down a track.
Optional - leave blank channels in SONAR between instruments (i.e. bass will be channel 5 in your interface but track 7 (or whatever) in your DAW, guitar would be channel 6 on interface but 8 in the DAW , etc etc.) This allows you to have open channels in the DAW for overdubs & fixes so all of the like instruments are kind of grouped together - all your guitar parts will be on channels 8-11 (or whatever), which can make it easier for you (and your eventual mix person) to keep track of things when editing & mixing.
Not optional - take copious notes.
posted by soundguy99 at 10:16 AM on November 11, 2020 [5 favorites]
Track 2) snare drum, beta 58
Track 3) drum overhead floor tom side, large condenser
Track 4) drum overhead hi hat side, large condenser
Track 5) bass direct
Track 6) guitar, 58 on amp
Track 7) lead vocal if you need/want it, beta 58.
Optional - make track 3 hi hat with small condenser, move everything down a track.
Optional - leave blank channels in SONAR between instruments (i.e. bass will be channel 5 in your interface but track 7 (or whatever) in your DAW, guitar would be channel 6 on interface but 8 in the DAW , etc etc.) This allows you to have open channels in the DAW for overdubs & fixes so all of the like instruments are kind of grouped together - all your guitar parts will be on channels 8-11 (or whatever), which can make it easier for you (and your eventual mix person) to keep track of things when editing & mixing.
Not optional - take copious notes.
posted by soundguy99 at 10:16 AM on November 11, 2020 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: Forgot I also have a Senneheiser 609 mic for the guitar.
Electric guitar and bass. I use a 72 reissue tele thin line with humbuckers through a hot rod deluxe. Steve will most likely play his Ric but I'm not sure what amp he'll choose. Kick, snare, 1 rack and 1 floor tom.
We are somewhere between rock and punk, female vocalist with a strong mid range voice. Lots of our stuff on MeFi Music.
posted by InfidelZombie at 11:00 AM on November 11, 2020
Electric guitar and bass. I use a 72 reissue tele thin line with humbuckers through a hot rod deluxe. Steve will most likely play his Ric but I'm not sure what amp he'll choose. Kick, snare, 1 rack and 1 floor tom.
We are somewhere between rock and punk, female vocalist with a strong mid range voice. Lots of our stuff on MeFi Music.
posted by InfidelZombie at 11:00 AM on November 11, 2020
Best answer: If you've got a 609 for the guitar amp, use that, add a "bass amp" track (in addition to the direct) with a 58. (Esp with a Ric bass, IMO - the direct signal can be a bit thin and clanky.)
posted by soundguy99 at 11:08 AM on November 11, 2020
posted by soundguy99 at 11:08 AM on November 11, 2020
I do a lot of home recording for fun (no drums though! I just use MIDI for that) and have recorded a number of albums, both DIY and in real studios. My advice:
Think very carefully about workflow and what it is you're actually recording.
Will you have a designated "producer" in the garage with you listening to each take to see if it's good to go, as you go? Sloppiness or wrong notes that you can let slide when you're playing live might sound more noticeably bad on a recording. If a track starts peaking you might as well start over on it, if someone can keep an eye on levels to make sure that doesn't happen, you'll save yourselves time. Also, let me tell you, it is NO FUN going through dozens of takes later on to see which one is "the good take" for each instrument. If you can make those calls or assemble your comps in a quick and decisive way as you go along, that's really best! Take lots and lots of notes as you go. And make sure you listen back to the takes before calling it a day and putting away your gear. I had an issue with a live video once where I thought it all sounded great in the moment, but then listened back and my vocal was terrible. I had to re-record a vocal at home and send it over to be mixed in, but it's a lot harder to do that for, say, drums.
Will you play to a click to ease editing later? If so, is your drummer used to following a click? It can be difficult if they're not used to that.
Will you all track live, or will you lay down tracks one by one?
If you're tracking live, how will you isolate each instrument? Noise bleeding into a track from other instruments' mics will make it hard to mix properly. If you're able to go into different rooms from each other or record the instruments DI and monitor in headphones, that might be best. If you're monitoring in headphones, do you have a headphone amp and long enough cables for everyone?
If you're recording one by one, what order will you go in? Do you all know the songs inside and out, enough to record them confidently, in headphones, without cues from the whole rest of the band? It feels different, and way harder, recording to tracks in headphones when you're used to feeling the music with your whole body when playing live.
Mic'ing drums is hard. It's probably going to be the hardest thing in this whole process. You might consider recording drums in a studio and then doing the other tracks DIY. But make sure you carefully research as much as you can about mic placement and levels, or you'll end up with phase issues and bleed that might be impossible to fix in the mix. Certain spaces have better sounds than others, although if you close mic as much as possible you can fake a room sound with reverb later.
Read up on mic placement in general. There's a sweet spot for mic placement for your amps, make sure you know where that is if you're mic'ing up your amps instead of going DI.
How many tracks will you record for each instrument? You can't do this live, but in a recording, doubling, tripling, quadrupling+ the same track can do wonders... I don't know what genre you're in, but if I'm recording distorted rhythm guitars, for instance, I love quadrupling the rhythm track and hard panning two to either side to make it sound big. A thin vocal can be beefed up by doubling the track and mixing in the second track at a lower level. Making a copy in your DAW of the same track is not the same thing; doubles should actually be re-recorded. Even when you're playing the exact same part, the tiny differences and nuances in pitch and volume are what make it sound good. And maybe you'll want to also record a clean guitar track that the person mixing can reamp however they like?
Any fun production tricks or studio flourishes you might like to add that aren't feasible when you're playing live because you don't have enough hands? Maybe you don't have a keyboard player for live shows, but maybe X song could actually use a keyboard part. Now's your chance.
FWIW, for the last album I recorded (all DIY, in a friend's barn), we mic'd up the drum kit and recorded drums first but we all played along and recorded everyone else onto a couple of scratch tracks (DI with headphone monitoring as much as possible). The drums were the only thing we kept on the finished product, but everyone else then took turns to record their parts individually, and we used the live-recorded scratch tracks as reference for them to track to, because it's weird and easy to lose track of where you are if you're recording to just drums but you're used to playing with the whole band. I don't remember the breakdown of who ended up on which scratch track, but we would try to turn down the scratch track that they were on originally as they were tracking, to avoid confusion.
I don't know too much about mics, but personally I'd use one of the condensers for the lead vocal (and overdub that later so you can get a clean track). You could use one of the 58s for a live scratch track.
posted by music for skeletons at 11:11 AM on November 11, 2020 [5 favorites]
Think very carefully about workflow and what it is you're actually recording.
Will you have a designated "producer" in the garage with you listening to each take to see if it's good to go, as you go? Sloppiness or wrong notes that you can let slide when you're playing live might sound more noticeably bad on a recording. If a track starts peaking you might as well start over on it, if someone can keep an eye on levels to make sure that doesn't happen, you'll save yourselves time. Also, let me tell you, it is NO FUN going through dozens of takes later on to see which one is "the good take" for each instrument. If you can make those calls or assemble your comps in a quick and decisive way as you go along, that's really best! Take lots and lots of notes as you go. And make sure you listen back to the takes before calling it a day and putting away your gear. I had an issue with a live video once where I thought it all sounded great in the moment, but then listened back and my vocal was terrible. I had to re-record a vocal at home and send it over to be mixed in, but it's a lot harder to do that for, say, drums.
Will you play to a click to ease editing later? If so, is your drummer used to following a click? It can be difficult if they're not used to that.
Will you all track live, or will you lay down tracks one by one?
If you're tracking live, how will you isolate each instrument? Noise bleeding into a track from other instruments' mics will make it hard to mix properly. If you're able to go into different rooms from each other or record the instruments DI and monitor in headphones, that might be best. If you're monitoring in headphones, do you have a headphone amp and long enough cables for everyone?
If you're recording one by one, what order will you go in? Do you all know the songs inside and out, enough to record them confidently, in headphones, without cues from the whole rest of the band? It feels different, and way harder, recording to tracks in headphones when you're used to feeling the music with your whole body when playing live.
Mic'ing drums is hard. It's probably going to be the hardest thing in this whole process. You might consider recording drums in a studio and then doing the other tracks DIY. But make sure you carefully research as much as you can about mic placement and levels, or you'll end up with phase issues and bleed that might be impossible to fix in the mix. Certain spaces have better sounds than others, although if you close mic as much as possible you can fake a room sound with reverb later.
Read up on mic placement in general. There's a sweet spot for mic placement for your amps, make sure you know where that is if you're mic'ing up your amps instead of going DI.
How many tracks will you record for each instrument? You can't do this live, but in a recording, doubling, tripling, quadrupling+ the same track can do wonders... I don't know what genre you're in, but if I'm recording distorted rhythm guitars, for instance, I love quadrupling the rhythm track and hard panning two to either side to make it sound big. A thin vocal can be beefed up by doubling the track and mixing in the second track at a lower level. Making a copy in your DAW of the same track is not the same thing; doubles should actually be re-recorded. Even when you're playing the exact same part, the tiny differences and nuances in pitch and volume are what make it sound good. And maybe you'll want to also record a clean guitar track that the person mixing can reamp however they like?
Any fun production tricks or studio flourishes you might like to add that aren't feasible when you're playing live because you don't have enough hands? Maybe you don't have a keyboard player for live shows, but maybe X song could actually use a keyboard part. Now's your chance.
FWIW, for the last album I recorded (all DIY, in a friend's barn), we mic'd up the drum kit and recorded drums first but we all played along and recorded everyone else onto a couple of scratch tracks (DI with headphone monitoring as much as possible). The drums were the only thing we kept on the finished product, but everyone else then took turns to record their parts individually, and we used the live-recorded scratch tracks as reference for them to track to, because it's weird and easy to lose track of where you are if you're recording to just drums but you're used to playing with the whole band. I don't remember the breakdown of who ended up on which scratch track, but we would try to turn down the scratch track that they were on originally as they were tracking, to avoid confusion.
I don't know too much about mics, but personally I'd use one of the condensers for the lead vocal (and overdub that later so you can get a clean track). You could use one of the 58s for a live scratch track.
posted by music for skeletons at 11:11 AM on November 11, 2020 [5 favorites]
Best answer: Optional - make track 3 hi hat with small condenser, move everything down a track.
As someone who does drum recordings in an awful room with a drummer who's a basher semi-regularly, I would add the hi-hat track. Not to use it (I would be surprised if you needed it), but to give you an extra option to control hat bleed into the snare mic (with a dynamic EQ) and the level of the hat in the OHs (by ducking).
Maybe your drummer has a little more finesse in their hat hand, though. :)
posted by uncleozzy at 11:37 AM on November 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
As someone who does drum recordings in an awful room with a drummer who's a basher semi-regularly, I would add the hi-hat track. Not to use it (I would be surprised if you needed it), but to give you an extra option to control hat bleed into the snare mic (with a dynamic EQ) and the level of the hat in the OHs (by ducking).
Maybe your drummer has a little more finesse in their hat hand, though. :)
posted by uncleozzy at 11:37 AM on November 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: The last time we recorded we did it straight to a stereo mic and overdubbed vocals and additional guitar. The most recent songs on the link above were done that way, think this one came out best.
I want to do it the same way but more mics. Best take would be by song based on best energy and least flubs.
posted by InfidelZombie at 12:14 PM on November 11, 2020
I want to do it the same way but more mics. Best take would be by song based on best energy and least flubs.
posted by InfidelZombie at 12:14 PM on November 11, 2020
Best answer: A couple thoughts.
FYI, the 990 is not a large diaphragm condenser (which isn't necessarily a bad thing). The 990 and 991 are basically the same capsule in different bodies. This isn't a terrible thing but something to be aware of.
Don't be afraid to try the condensers on the guitar cabinet. If you have enough channels/mics, consider a dynamic and condenser on it for variety. Similarly, while your best bet is probably DIing the bass, if you have enough space, tossing a mic onto the cabinet can give some more flexibility during mixdown.
Are you going to try to any kind of monitoring during the recording?
You don't have a great option for the kick drum. The 58s are serviceable for the purpose but not ideal. If you're going to overdub the vocals, you could consider splurging on something that would work well on both vocals and kick. A used Shure SM-7b would fit the bill and they hold their value very well thanks to their popularity with podcasters/streamers. If you're willing to deal with the hassle of selling a mic during covid, you could probably break even on it and "rent" it for free. I would highly recommend against the AKG D112 for the purpose.
The thing that stuck out on the earlier recordings as something that would be good to improve on is the snare - I wanted it to be a bit snappier. So unless that's the sound the drummer is really happy with, I'd spend a little time experimenting with mic positions for this session.
Assuming the vocals will be overdubbed and you're doing guitar/bass/drums, I might try:
1. Kick drum - Beta 58 (the Beta has a little more low end than the regular 58)
2. Snare - 58
3. High hat - 990
4. Rack - 58
5. Floor - Beta 58
6/7. Overheads 991s in XY position
8. Guitar - 609
9. Bass - DI
If you can scrounge up something to act a channel of mic preamps or two, you could have add a 2nd mic on the guitar or mic the bass as well.
posted by Candleman at 3:33 PM on November 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
FYI, the 990 is not a large diaphragm condenser (which isn't necessarily a bad thing). The 990 and 991 are basically the same capsule in different bodies. This isn't a terrible thing but something to be aware of.
Don't be afraid to try the condensers on the guitar cabinet. If you have enough channels/mics, consider a dynamic and condenser on it for variety. Similarly, while your best bet is probably DIing the bass, if you have enough space, tossing a mic onto the cabinet can give some more flexibility during mixdown.
Are you going to try to any kind of monitoring during the recording?
You don't have a great option for the kick drum. The 58s are serviceable for the purpose but not ideal. If you're going to overdub the vocals, you could consider splurging on something that would work well on both vocals and kick. A used Shure SM-7b would fit the bill and they hold their value very well thanks to their popularity with podcasters/streamers. If you're willing to deal with the hassle of selling a mic during covid, you could probably break even on it and "rent" it for free. I would highly recommend against the AKG D112 for the purpose.
The thing that stuck out on the earlier recordings as something that would be good to improve on is the snare - I wanted it to be a bit snappier. So unless that's the sound the drummer is really happy with, I'd spend a little time experimenting with mic positions for this session.
Assuming the vocals will be overdubbed and you're doing guitar/bass/drums, I might try:
1. Kick drum - Beta 58 (the Beta has a little more low end than the regular 58)
2. Snare - 58
3. High hat - 990
4. Rack - 58
5. Floor - Beta 58
6/7. Overheads 991s in XY position
8. Guitar - 609
9. Bass - DI
If you can scrounge up something to act a channel of mic preamps or two, you could have add a 2nd mic on the guitar or mic the bass as well.
posted by Candleman at 3:33 PM on November 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
- Spend some hours testing & adjusting drum mics before everyone shows up for the session.
(- Not on a cheap budget, but electronic drum kits or fancy drum meshs can reduce bleed and make the recording process much easier.)
(- my personal philosophy leans punk/garage, so I'd care more about the essential groove/atmosphere than hunting down and killing random flubs, but I'm not a professional.)
posted by ovvl at 3:52 PM on November 11, 2020
(- Not on a cheap budget, but electronic drum kits or fancy drum meshs can reduce bleed and make the recording process much easier.)
(- my personal philosophy leans punk/garage, so I'd care more about the essential groove/atmosphere than hunting down and killing random flubs, but I'm not a professional.)
posted by ovvl at 3:52 PM on November 11, 2020
Best answer: If you want to add a dedicated kick mic, the Sennheiser E602 is great for the price. Have also heard good things about the Audix D6 and Shure Beta 52a, both of which are just a little more expensive than the Sennheiser.
You might also consider getting a DI box to give you some flexibility with the guitar—mic up the amp with the 609 and run the DI to a separate track for use with amp sims. The Radial Pro48 is solid and pretty inexpensive as these things go. You'd have to sacrifice a drum mic to do it all live at the same time, though.
FWIW, I don't mic the hi-hat separately and it isn't a problem. It all depends on mic positioning, the room, and the drummer. And be sure to dedicate some time to working out the sound in advance. More than once I have found out the hard way that recording a bunch of takes without spending the time to test out mic position, etc. is a waste of time.
posted by sinfony at 7:41 AM on November 12, 2020 [2 favorites]
You might also consider getting a DI box to give you some flexibility with the guitar—mic up the amp with the 609 and run the DI to a separate track for use with amp sims. The Radial Pro48 is solid and pretty inexpensive as these things go. You'd have to sacrifice a drum mic to do it all live at the same time, though.
FWIW, I don't mic the hi-hat separately and it isn't a problem. It all depends on mic positioning, the room, and the drummer. And be sure to dedicate some time to working out the sound in advance. More than once I have found out the hard way that recording a bunch of takes without spending the time to test out mic position, etc. is a waste of time.
posted by sinfony at 7:41 AM on November 12, 2020 [2 favorites]
Seconding the Audix D6 as a kick mic - also useful for bass amp and maybe even guitar. The Sennheiser is . . . OK, IMO; the 52 is an industry standard but I find it fairly limited in use unless combined with a Beta 91 stuck inside the kick. Haven't tried Candleman's suggestion of an SM-7b.
posted by soundguy99 at 8:17 AM on November 12, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by soundguy99 at 8:17 AM on November 12, 2020 [1 favorite]
Lots of good ideas here. One thought I haven't seen -- if your guitarist has any ability to go direct, i.e. through the use of a pedal w/ amp modeling or something like that, I'd recommend recording guitar, bass, and drums live, with guitar/bass going direct. That way, you get a clean drum recording. (Of course, you'll need a headphone mix, but it sounds like that's possible?)
Unless you're willing to go to a lot of trouble to isolate the guitar, it can be pretty tough to mix drums w/ a lot of guitar/bass bleed.
(I'm also assuming you're overdubbing vocals later.)
posted by nosila at 8:17 AM on November 12, 2020 [1 favorite]
Unless you're willing to go to a lot of trouble to isolate the guitar, it can be pretty tough to mix drums w/ a lot of guitar/bass bleed.
(I'm also assuming you're overdubbing vocals later.)
posted by nosila at 8:17 AM on November 12, 2020 [1 favorite]
the Sennheiser E602 is great for the price. Have also heard good things about the Audix D6 and Shure Beta 52a
I've used all three of those successfully. Like soundguy99, the Audix would be my first choice.
You might also consider getting a DI box to give you some flexibility with the guitar
The Tascam interface does have two DIs built in that while nowhere near as nice as a Radial should be serviceable.
Haven't tried Candleman's suggestion of an SM-7b.
It's not what I'd buy with the intent of having as a primary kick drum mic if I were equipping a studio, but it's decent for it and versatile for other things, especially the vocals. I like the Sennheiser 421 (especially if you can find a good condition original version) better as a multitasker for kick and male vocals but not so much female.
posted by Candleman at 10:29 AM on November 12, 2020 [1 favorite]
I've used all three of those successfully. Like soundguy99, the Audix would be my first choice.
You might also consider getting a DI box to give you some flexibility with the guitar
The Tascam interface does have two DIs built in that while nowhere near as nice as a Radial should be serviceable.
Haven't tried Candleman's suggestion of an SM-7b.
It's not what I'd buy with the intent of having as a primary kick drum mic if I were equipping a studio, but it's decent for it and versatile for other things, especially the vocals. I like the Sennheiser 421 (especially if you can find a good condition original version) better as a multitasker for kick and male vocals but not so much female.
posted by Candleman at 10:29 AM on November 12, 2020 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: We were able to get two recording sessions in before COVID got bad again and we needed to take a break. Only got one or two potential keepers, but I expected the first couple times to be rough as we worked out the kinks. Feeling good about the process so we'll come back at it next year after things get better. It also gives me some tracks I can use to practice doing guitar overdubs and see what I might like to do on the final versions.
Learned a few lessons -
1. We need Yvonne to do vocals, the energy isn't there without her.
2. Some of the new songs will work better acoustic, we're not getting what we want electric.
3. My computer didn't quite meet the minimum specs for the software, which should explain the dropout problem I was having. Bought a newer one that's faster and has more RAM.
Haven't had a chance to practice with Yvonne since November, so she'll need some time to get her voice back in shape after the time off. So I figure we start with acoustic practice and record that when it's ready, then do the same thing with electric. Focus on maybe 8 songs for each - if we practice a couple times and then record one day each that should give us what we need.
Thanks to everyone for all the advice, it really helped!
posted by InfidelZombie at 10:26 AM on December 21, 2020 [1 favorite]
Learned a few lessons -
1. We need Yvonne to do vocals, the energy isn't there without her.
2. Some of the new songs will work better acoustic, we're not getting what we want electric.
3. My computer didn't quite meet the minimum specs for the software, which should explain the dropout problem I was having. Bought a newer one that's faster and has more RAM.
Haven't had a chance to practice with Yvonne since November, so she'll need some time to get her voice back in shape after the time off. So I figure we start with acoustic practice and record that when it's ready, then do the same thing with electric. Focus on maybe 8 songs for each - if we practice a couple times and then record one day each that should give us what we need.
Thanks to everyone for all the advice, it really helped!
posted by InfidelZombie at 10:26 AM on December 21, 2020 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by BrStekker at 10:09 AM on November 11, 2020