Am I Overreacting To My Boss' Discouraging Comment?
September 27, 2020 10:06 AM Subscribe
I was recently put on probation at work with no prior warnings. During the probation meeting, my new boss said "I'm giving you some clear steps for improvement, but I don't think you're going to be able to do it." Am I being set up to fail?
I've been at this company for 25 years and in my current position for 14 years. My reviews have been overwhelming positive. In fact, two bosses ago, I asked to be moved into a lower paid position doing something I enjoy more and was told "you're too valuable in your current position."
Three or four months ago, a new boss was brought in and I asked him for some clarity on my position in these changing times. He said he was going to talk to some people and get back to me.
Last week, he called me into a meeting to follow up on my request and, during the course of the meeting, he told me he's putting my on probation, giving me a timeline to improve and furthermore that he doesn't think I'm going to be able to do it - those exact words. I was gobsmacked - I had just been given a commendation by the company president two days before for my excellent work leading my time during the pandemic.
Anyhow, two of his other underlings - also long term, well respected employees - recently resigned suddenly "for health reasons." I suspect that I am being set up to fail so that they either have an excuse to fire me, or so that I resign. I'm good at my job, but I'm expensive since I've been there so long and I have no doubt they can find somebody decent at a significantly lower price.
Am I being paranoid? I am not claiming I'm perfect in the job and I can always do better (and made positive changes in response to critique in the past), but that line about "I don't think you're going to be able to do it" just makes me feel like I'm being set up to fail. It's been over a week and he hasn't given me a timeline or a list of needed improvements.
As a result, I've already started working on my resume and reaching out to recruiters, but if I'm being oversensitive, I want to give it some time so I don't walk away from a company that I've been loyal to for decades.
I've been at this company for 25 years and in my current position for 14 years. My reviews have been overwhelming positive. In fact, two bosses ago, I asked to be moved into a lower paid position doing something I enjoy more and was told "you're too valuable in your current position."
Three or four months ago, a new boss was brought in and I asked him for some clarity on my position in these changing times. He said he was going to talk to some people and get back to me.
Last week, he called me into a meeting to follow up on my request and, during the course of the meeting, he told me he's putting my on probation, giving me a timeline to improve and furthermore that he doesn't think I'm going to be able to do it - those exact words. I was gobsmacked - I had just been given a commendation by the company president two days before for my excellent work leading my time during the pandemic.
Anyhow, two of his other underlings - also long term, well respected employees - recently resigned suddenly "for health reasons." I suspect that I am being set up to fail so that they either have an excuse to fire me, or so that I resign. I'm good at my job, but I'm expensive since I've been there so long and I have no doubt they can find somebody decent at a significantly lower price.
Am I being paranoid? I am not claiming I'm perfect in the job and I can always do better (and made positive changes in response to critique in the past), but that line about "I don't think you're going to be able to do it" just makes me feel like I'm being set up to fail. It's been over a week and he hasn't given me a timeline or a list of needed improvements.
As a result, I've already started working on my resume and reaching out to recruiters, but if I'm being oversensitive, I want to give it some time so I don't walk away from a company that I've been loyal to for decades.
I would be a little suspicious that the thing he "talk[ed] to some people" about was drastically cutting his department's budget, yeah. The fact that you haven't actually gotten steps for improvement or a timeline is also not encouraging. If you're in the US, and you're over 40 (which I'm assuming you are, otherwise you were pretty damned precocious) you might want to schedule a meeting with an employment lawyer, because this does sound like they're building a paper-thin case for firing you because you're older and better-established. Not that that's likely to preserve your job, but you might end up with a much better payout.
posted by restless_nomad at 10:16 AM on September 27, 2020 [31 favorites]
posted by restless_nomad at 10:16 AM on September 27, 2020 [31 favorites]
Ooof, no, you're not being paranoid or oversensitive. You've been put on probation, and your boss doesn't think you're going to be able to meet the terms of the probation. That is your boss telling you that he intends to fire you. That sucks so much, and I'm sorry. But yeah, you should be putting out feelers for another job. It sounds like that might be good for you anyway, given that they turned down your request to be moved to a position doing something you enjoy more. Do you still want to do that thing? Can you take this as an opportunity to move into that field?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:16 AM on September 27, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:16 AM on September 27, 2020 [6 favorites]
You're not being paranoid, you're being set up. Now, him having done/said this without delivering you an actual plan that has been vetted and prepared by HR actually makes me think he's making it up to see if he can run you off, so depending on your personal feelings of risk aversion you could certainly reach out to HR about this very confusing situation, particularly given the commendation you just received. This will likely scare the fuck out of HR because of the liability it creates (note: remember they do not give a shit about you, only about your ability to sue the company, but you should pretend you think they care about clearing all this up).
In the meantime, your state workforce commission is drowning in claims and mismanagement but they probably have a website that outlines to some extent what is and is not legal termination. If you had the resources to speak briefly with an employment lawyer, you could do that as well.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:16 AM on September 27, 2020 [38 favorites]
In the meantime, your state workforce commission is drowning in claims and mismanagement but they probably have a website that outlines to some extent what is and is not legal termination. If you had the resources to speak briefly with an employment lawyer, you could do that as well.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:16 AM on September 27, 2020 [38 favorites]
You are not being paranoid. You will be fired if you don't quit within a month or two.
This guy was handed (whether or not at his request) a mandate to clean house tied to a limitation that the senior, well-liked, people were not supposed to be walked out by security (or whatever the Covid-equivalent of that is).
You could look at it as nice ... you get to keep your salary for a bit, send resumes out while still employed, etc. You might also look at it as a sketchy way to save on severance and mislead other workers about the scope of the housecleaning.
posted by MattD at 10:18 AM on September 27, 2020 [9 favorites]
This guy was handed (whether or not at his request) a mandate to clean house tied to a limitation that the senior, well-liked, people were not supposed to be walked out by security (or whatever the Covid-equivalent of that is).
You could look at it as nice ... you get to keep your salary for a bit, send resumes out while still employed, etc. You might also look at it as a sketchy way to save on severance and mislead other workers about the scope of the housecleaning.
posted by MattD at 10:18 AM on September 27, 2020 [9 favorites]
I don't think you are overreacting at all. But I wonder if there might be other avenues you can try in addition to applying for new jobs?
About these "clear steps for improvement" that you were given...
- Have you actually been performing badly according to these measures? Have you been failing to perform these particular steps while executing your job?? Or are you being framed and lied about? Because if the allegations that you haven't been doing these particular clear steps is false, you need to document your ongoing success at performing these steps, bring the evidence to HR and tell them how confused you are, per Lyn Never's suggestion. Lying about your job performance while you have proof to the contrary... that should trike fear into HR's heart.
- Are they in fact clear steps? Do you understand them? Are they objectively measurable indicators of your job performance, or are they subjective and vague? If these are not clear steps, you need to go back to your boss and force them to clearly define objective standards by which you will be judged. Make them put quantifiable standards in writing which you are capable of documenting as you meet the standards. For example, "For the next three months, Anonymous will keep boss adequately informed about progress on project Z," is a bad guideline. "For the next three months Anonymous will hold a team meeting every Thursday am to get reports on progress on Project Z, and compile a one-page summary for boss by Friday am," is good. Make your boss commit to objective guidelines. Once again, make sure you involve HR and make this whole thing super official.
- Were you ever informed in advance about these particular expectations or is this the first time you're hearing that you're expected to do these "clear steps" as part of your job? If this amounts to a change of your job description, you can bring that up with your boss and tell them it's not your job to do these steps. You would also immediately escalate to HR that you have been put on probation for failing standards that are being invented on the fly for you, judging you on criteria outside your job description.
You should definitely also polish up your resume and look for new jobs; I'm just saying you need to do this simultaneously. If and when you do find a different job, make sure you lay the situation per above out during your exit interview with HR.
posted by MiraK at 10:27 AM on September 27, 2020 [4 favorites]
About these "clear steps for improvement" that you were given...
- Have you actually been performing badly according to these measures? Have you been failing to perform these particular steps while executing your job?? Or are you being framed and lied about? Because if the allegations that you haven't been doing these particular clear steps is false, you need to document your ongoing success at performing these steps, bring the evidence to HR and tell them how confused you are, per Lyn Never's suggestion. Lying about your job performance while you have proof to the contrary... that should trike fear into HR's heart.
- Are they in fact clear steps? Do you understand them? Are they objectively measurable indicators of your job performance, or are they subjective and vague? If these are not clear steps, you need to go back to your boss and force them to clearly define objective standards by which you will be judged. Make them put quantifiable standards in writing which you are capable of documenting as you meet the standards. For example, "For the next three months, Anonymous will keep boss adequately informed about progress on project Z," is a bad guideline. "For the next three months Anonymous will hold a team meeting every Thursday am to get reports on progress on Project Z, and compile a one-page summary for boss by Friday am," is good. Make your boss commit to objective guidelines. Once again, make sure you involve HR and make this whole thing super official.
- Were you ever informed in advance about these particular expectations or is this the first time you're hearing that you're expected to do these "clear steps" as part of your job? If this amounts to a change of your job description, you can bring that up with your boss and tell them it's not your job to do these steps. You would also immediately escalate to HR that you have been put on probation for failing standards that are being invented on the fly for you, judging you on criteria outside your job description.
You should definitely also polish up your resume and look for new jobs; I'm just saying you need to do this simultaneously. If and when you do find a different job, make sure you lay the situation per above out during your exit interview with HR.
posted by MiraK at 10:27 AM on September 27, 2020 [4 favorites]
Anyhow, two of his other underlings - also long term, well respected employees - recently resigned suddenly "for health reasons."
If his in this case is your manager rather than the company president, it may just be that this person is a terrible manager, especially if no other department is having these issues. Things sound do sound bad, but something to consider if you think the situation is salvageable - you may be expensive, but employees that know the company, the job, and have demonstrated that they're able to perform well during the pandemic are really valuable. If your work is remote at this time, I can tell you that trying to get someone without much experience from outside the company up to speed with even relatively basic stuff right now is a nightmare.
So if you don't think this is part of a companywide push to get expensive people out, talk to someone (the president even) about getting assigned to a different role (possibly that other role you mentioned?) under a different manager. If his criticisms are unwarranted, respond in writing with a dispute.
Whatever you do, don't resign. Get familiar with your locality's unemployment rules and make sure that you get them if you do lose the job. Consider talking with a lawyer that deals with age discrimination. Get copies of all of your performance reviews etc. onto a personal device. If they're already trying to get rid of you, make sure you don't violate company policy by sending it through the e-mail system if that's not allowed - take a picture if you have to and e-mail the photos to an account outside of work to establish a time stamp for when it was taken.
posted by Candleman at 10:33 AM on September 27, 2020 [3 favorites]
If his in this case is your manager rather than the company president, it may just be that this person is a terrible manager, especially if no other department is having these issues. Things sound do sound bad, but something to consider if you think the situation is salvageable - you may be expensive, but employees that know the company, the job, and have demonstrated that they're able to perform well during the pandemic are really valuable. If your work is remote at this time, I can tell you that trying to get someone without much experience from outside the company up to speed with even relatively basic stuff right now is a nightmare.
So if you don't think this is part of a companywide push to get expensive people out, talk to someone (the president even) about getting assigned to a different role (possibly that other role you mentioned?) under a different manager. If his criticisms are unwarranted, respond in writing with a dispute.
Whatever you do, don't resign. Get familiar with your locality's unemployment rules and make sure that you get them if you do lose the job. Consider talking with a lawyer that deals with age discrimination. Get copies of all of your performance reviews etc. onto a personal device. If they're already trying to get rid of you, make sure you don't violate company policy by sending it through the e-mail system if that's not allowed - take a picture if you have to and e-mail the photos to an account outside of work to establish a time stamp for when it was taken.
posted by Candleman at 10:33 AM on September 27, 2020 [3 favorites]
You're 100% being set up to fail - in fact, that's pretty much what your boss has said to you with the words "I don't think you're going to be able to do it". Effective immediately, put all your mental and emotional energy into looking for a new job.
> I've already started working on my resume
Good.
> but if I'm being oversensitive
You're not being oversensitive. What your boss said to you is the biggest red flag that exists.
Also, it doesn't hurt to keep track of everything from now on - forward emails to a personal email account, keep notes at home of what your boss says to you and when. Just in case you should need to get legal action for unemployment or anything, you'll be glad you kept records of everything.
posted by splitpeasoup at 10:43 AM on September 27, 2020 [14 favorites]
> I've already started working on my resume
Good.
> but if I'm being oversensitive
You're not being oversensitive. What your boss said to you is the biggest red flag that exists.
Also, it doesn't hurt to keep track of everything from now on - forward emails to a personal email account, keep notes at home of what your boss says to you and when. Just in case you should need to get legal action for unemployment or anything, you'll be glad you kept records of everything.
posted by splitpeasoup at 10:43 AM on September 27, 2020 [14 favorites]
You've probably got a ton of institutional goodwill built up after all these years. Reach out to HR. Reach out to the company president. Reach out to trusted colleages. Your messaging can be along the lines of, "I thought I was doing my job pretty well -- just got commended for it, actually. I am open to criticism and ready to improve however I can, but Boss hasn't given me the timeline/requirement improvements yet. And he's told me he expects me to fail. Can you help me clarify the situation so we can all get on the same page about what changes the company would like to see in my output?"
Frankly, I'd also reach out to the 2 people on his team who recently left to see what they say, too.
DO NOT RESIGN, no matter what, to preserve your ability to get unemployment if necessary. (Yes, it can be possible to get unemployment if you quit, but it will be harder and take more time to deal with. A friend of mine just went through it and it took months & an in-person hearing before she was deemed eligible.)
Also you might read through the posts on Ask A Manager; there are similar questions with answers there.
And I guess the flip side is that yes, if they truly do want get rid of you, whether because of payroll or because they're truly not happy with your work and don't think you can improve, they can certainly do that. But you should play it out as long as possible. Get every dollar you can get out of them as you prepare your resume and start your job hunt.
posted by BlahLaLa at 10:46 AM on September 27, 2020 [40 favorites]
Frankly, I'd also reach out to the 2 people on his team who recently left to see what they say, too.
DO NOT RESIGN, no matter what, to preserve your ability to get unemployment if necessary. (Yes, it can be possible to get unemployment if you quit, but it will be harder and take more time to deal with. A friend of mine just went through it and it took months & an in-person hearing before she was deemed eligible.)
Also you might read through the posts on Ask A Manager; there are similar questions with answers there.
And I guess the flip side is that yes, if they truly do want get rid of you, whether because of payroll or because they're truly not happy with your work and don't think you can improve, they can certainly do that. But you should play it out as long as possible. Get every dollar you can get out of them as you prepare your resume and start your job hunt.
posted by BlahLaLa at 10:46 AM on September 27, 2020 [40 favorites]
You might also speak to a lawyer about the possibility of age discrimination.
posted by kokaku at 11:04 AM on September 27, 2020 [13 favorites]
posted by kokaku at 11:04 AM on September 27, 2020 [13 favorites]
Do NOT reach out to HR! They are not your friend, and their only role in a case like this is to protect your boss. Ask me how I know.
posted by dbmcd at 11:15 AM on September 27, 2020 [25 favorites]
posted by dbmcd at 11:15 AM on September 27, 2020 [25 favorites]
Do NOT reach out to HR! They are not your friend, and their only role in a case like this is to protect your boss.
Sure, kind of, but if you're already on track to be let go, and you've been there decades longer than your boss, it's worth at least checking in and making sure everything is on the level.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 11:17 AM on September 27, 2020 [27 favorites]
Sure, kind of, but if you're already on track to be let go, and you've been there decades longer than your boss, it's worth at least checking in and making sure everything is on the level.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 11:17 AM on September 27, 2020 [27 favorites]
Yes, you’re being set up. You’re smart to start looking around, and absolutely do talk to a lawyer because your age/seniority is likely the reason. I agree that you shouldn’t quit, but I also don’t think you want to keep working there. Your boss has already indicated he’s going to make things difficult. That won’t change.
posted by kevinbelt at 11:19 AM on September 27, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by kevinbelt at 11:19 AM on September 27, 2020 [2 favorites]
Jesus, lawyer up tomorrow. You have a clear record of success in this company and this position, your boss gave you no advance warning that your performance was unsatisfactory, and you've been placed on probation with no clear explanation of why or what exactly you're supposed to do to fix this situation. You've been there for 25 years, which suggests you're late 40s or early 50s. This is exactly what a free consultation with an employment lawyer is for. This is cowardly bullshit on their part.
posted by disconnect at 11:24 AM on September 27, 2020 [26 favorites]
posted by disconnect at 11:24 AM on September 27, 2020 [26 favorites]
Sorry this is happening to you, that is horrible. I would echo the prevailing sentiment here that you are accurately reading the situation and are being put on a firing track.
At this point I think you lose little by contacting upper management to basically register that you believe the assessment of you falling short is mistaken due to reasons X Y and Z, great reviews for years, etc.
I do agree that HR is not necessarily your first stop, since as others note they are bound to do right by the company first. If you have been there a long time however you may know someone well in HR and can talk with them off the record about whether there's anything you can do. I would not officially contact them.
Talking with a local labor lawyer might be a good idea. Since your company seems to have already taken an adversarial position to you, it is ok to be prepared but I wouldn't say anything like, let me run this by my attorney.
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 11:25 AM on September 27, 2020 [2 favorites]
At this point I think you lose little by contacting upper management to basically register that you believe the assessment of you falling short is mistaken due to reasons X Y and Z, great reviews for years, etc.
I do agree that HR is not necessarily your first stop, since as others note they are bound to do right by the company first. If you have been there a long time however you may know someone well in HR and can talk with them off the record about whether there's anything you can do. I would not officially contact them.
Talking with a local labor lawyer might be a good idea. Since your company seems to have already taken an adversarial position to you, it is ok to be prepared but I wouldn't say anything like, let me run this by my attorney.
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 11:25 AM on September 27, 2020 [2 favorites]
I flipped table rage quit when this happened and probably shouldn't have. It was new C-suite person not Boss or Boss^2 or other Boss^2 around and about. I found out on my last day of 2-week notice when I went in to say goodbye to friends and co-workers that everybody *hated* new C and were jealous that I could just leave like that. It didn't effect them, or they couldn't afford to leave, or they were actually planning to leave, or they were of a different mindset and could put up with a new C for a year or so riding out the storm waiting for the next C. Same long time institutional knowledge and expensive and new C wondering why they pay me that much and having no idea but the bottom line of trying to cut costs. A couple of years later I contacted an old friend for a bit of information, they had now taken the place of my Boss^2 who had left a year later than I and was HR compliantly informed that that C was gone and there were open positions that I'd be suited for. (this is university IT where it wasn't uncommon for people to leave because of conflicts with some C and then return later.)
I totally should have either stuck it out and been fired or something. Or at least bided my time while looking for someplace else to work.
New B has it out for you, maybe because they don't understand your role in the organization, or you're expensive, or they just don't like you. You're not the B (or C) maybe ask why? Or what's the turnover for new B/C in your organization. Does management come and go? Does it come from promotions from the inside or does it come from the outside? Is it likely to change in short order? Had I the chance to do it over again, I'd be a PITA going above or aside the new C, or at least jumped ship more prepared.
posted by zengargoyle at 11:56 AM on September 27, 2020 [1 favorite]
I totally should have either stuck it out and been fired or something. Or at least bided my time while looking for someplace else to work.
New B has it out for you, maybe because they don't understand your role in the organization, or you're expensive, or they just don't like you. You're not the B (or C) maybe ask why? Or what's the turnover for new B/C in your organization. Does management come and go? Does it come from promotions from the inside or does it come from the outside? Is it likely to change in short order? Had I the chance to do it over again, I'd be a PITA going above or aside the new C, or at least jumped ship more prepared.
posted by zengargoyle at 11:56 AM on September 27, 2020 [1 favorite]
New B has it out for you, maybe because they don't understand your role in the organization, or you're expensive, or they just don't like you.
Or they want to give your job to one of their cronies.
posted by thelonius at 12:01 PM on September 27, 2020 [17 favorites]
Or they want to give your job to one of their cronies.
posted by thelonius at 12:01 PM on September 27, 2020 [17 favorites]
After 25 years of service this is going to be a body blow.
I am sorry.
Do not quit.
Thing is you should talk to an employment lawyer, don't tell anyone else.
You must be prepared for the moment when or if they regretfully terminate your employment.
There's is no getting around this, you have too much at stake .
I'm not talking about unemployment insurance but a pension, medical dental benefits, vacation etc.
I had a friend a, technician worker bee, who was going to get laid of from his unionized job of 16 years.
He received a severance, but was also able continue paying in to the pension fund as well the medical
As a result when he retired a decade later he received a full very decent pension as well as medical.
Had another friend middle management at a large firm.
He got a decent severance but only was able to get an early retirement pension.
Which basically sucked compared to the full pension he would have been entitled to had he stayed another 5 years
This is where you want to talk to a lawyer. You not only have a large financial investment but also an emotional investment involved.
So step 1 is lawyer up.
Step 2 Maybe talk to the president
Your new boss looks like one of these sociopathic types who probably has a replacement in mind as thelonius said a crony
posted by yyz at 12:12 PM on September 27, 2020 [13 favorites]
I am sorry.
Do not quit.
Thing is you should talk to an employment lawyer, don't tell anyone else.
You must be prepared for the moment when or if they regretfully terminate your employment.
There's is no getting around this, you have too much at stake .
I'm not talking about unemployment insurance but a pension, medical dental benefits, vacation etc.
I had a friend a, technician worker bee, who was going to get laid of from his unionized job of 16 years.
He received a severance, but was also able continue paying in to the pension fund as well the medical
As a result when he retired a decade later he received a full very decent pension as well as medical.
Had another friend middle management at a large firm.
He got a decent severance but only was able to get an early retirement pension.
Which basically sucked compared to the full pension he would have been entitled to had he stayed another 5 years
This is where you want to talk to a lawyer. You not only have a large financial investment but also an emotional investment involved.
So step 1 is lawyer up.
Step 2 Maybe talk to the president
Your new boss looks like one of these sociopathic types who probably has a replacement in mind as thelonius said a crony
posted by yyz at 12:12 PM on September 27, 2020 [13 favorites]
Even when it doesn't also smell like they're trying to get rid of an expensive employee / clean house for a new regime, these improvement plans are usually a nice way for your manager to look for a new job. It is NOT personal. It has nothing to do with how you're doing your job. It is not reversible by doing your job better or doing anything typical to your role.
If you don't already know, start understanding how vacation works (does accrued vacation get paid out, or do you have to take it?). Use as appropriate. It might also be worth looking into organizational changes (why was a new manager brought in? why did the old manager leave?).
You could lawyer up, but do you really want to stay at this company? My feeling is that it's going to morph into something unrecognizable.
posted by batter_my_heart at 1:19 PM on September 27, 2020 [1 favorite]
If you don't already know, start understanding how vacation works (does accrued vacation get paid out, or do you have to take it?). Use as appropriate. It might also be worth looking into organizational changes (why was a new manager brought in? why did the old manager leave?).
You could lawyer up, but do you really want to stay at this company? My feeling is that it's going to morph into something unrecognizable.
posted by batter_my_heart at 1:19 PM on September 27, 2020 [1 favorite]
My experience - part of it working in HR - is that any time anybody is put on probation or a performance plan, it has already been decided they are on the way out. The probation/plan is just CYA Theater. The unusual part of your situation is that your boss was more up front with you than is normally the case. Try to get references from the people who were around when you were getting those rave reviews.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 2:02 PM on September 27, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 2:02 PM on September 27, 2020 [2 favorites]
I would negotiate a severance. 1 week for every year there which sounds like 6 months. I would not be surprised if the people who resigned for health reasons had negotiated a package. First, I would contact the President and ask them if they are aware of the conversation you just had with your boss. If they are not aware, ask them to get you clarification. If they are aware, then there is no hope of surviving and start negotiating an exit.
posted by AugustWest at 2:41 PM on September 27, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by AugustWest at 2:41 PM on September 27, 2020 [2 favorites]
I agree that you are definitely not being paranoid. In your shoes, my first step would be to find an employment attorney and get their advice. A good lawyer can guide you on what steps to take during the departure process and help you negotiate a severance package that protects your best interests.
This has nothing to do with anything you've done, which means that you probably are not going to be able to change your boss's mind. But, just because it's not personal doesn't mean it's not wrong. I'm sorry you are going through this after all your years with this company.
Go get what you deserve and make them think twice about doing this to anybody else.
posted by rpfields at 3:16 PM on September 27, 2020 [3 favorites]
This has nothing to do with anything you've done, which means that you probably are not going to be able to change your boss's mind. But, just because it's not personal doesn't mean it's not wrong. I'm sorry you are going through this after all your years with this company.
Go get what you deserve and make them think twice about doing this to anybody else.
posted by rpfields at 3:16 PM on September 27, 2020 [3 favorites]
1 week for every year there which sounds like 6 months.
In my jurisdiction that would be a massive underestimate.
Going from many years ago, 5 years with a company was an an absolute minimum of 3 months , possibly 6 , depending on age of the employee.
The older the employee the higher the payment.
What they looked at was years of service , plus age , plus likelihood of finding an equivalent job in what time frame.
My middle manger friend with with 14 years in received a monthly salary for 12 months , followed by a 6 month lump sum.
In addition there were available tuition payments , retraining , medical etc,
Still wasn't as good as if he remained employed.
At his age who cared about another degree.
The loss from full to partial pension was real.
Being told officially that you are redundant after 25 years of service is A) Bullshit.
It will hit you like a sack of hammers.
You can hope etc , but...
have a lawyer ready .
Don't sign anything while you're in shock and don't want to cause a scene.
Get your lawyer to do the talking.
posted by yyz at 4:16 PM on September 27, 2020 [3 favorites]
In my jurisdiction that would be a massive underestimate.
Going from many years ago, 5 years with a company was an an absolute minimum of 3 months , possibly 6 , depending on age of the employee.
The older the employee the higher the payment.
What they looked at was years of service , plus age , plus likelihood of finding an equivalent job in what time frame.
My middle manger friend with with 14 years in received a monthly salary for 12 months , followed by a 6 month lump sum.
In addition there were available tuition payments , retraining , medical etc,
Still wasn't as good as if he remained employed.
At his age who cared about another degree.
The loss from full to partial pension was real.
Being told officially that you are redundant after 25 years of service is A) Bullshit.
It will hit you like a sack of hammers.
You can hope etc , but...
have a lawyer ready .
Don't sign anything while you're in shock and don't want to cause a scene.
Get your lawyer to do the talking.
posted by yyz at 4:16 PM on September 27, 2020 [3 favorites]
HR IS NEVER YOUR FRIEND!
Lawyer up, now.
Save a paper trail of everything
Start looking for other jobs.
DO NOT QUIT
If and when you're fired like others have advised, let your lawyer deal with them.
Do not tie your self worth to some for-profit enterprise and its stooges. This is more important than everything else. But definitely lawyer up.
posted by whatdoyouthink? at 4:40 PM on September 27, 2020 [4 favorites]
Lawyer up, now.
Save a paper trail of everything
Start looking for other jobs.
DO NOT QUIT
If and when you're fired like others have advised, let your lawyer deal with them.
Do not tie your self worth to some for-profit enterprise and its stooges. This is more important than everything else. But definitely lawyer up.
posted by whatdoyouthink? at 4:40 PM on September 27, 2020 [4 favorites]
On a slightly related note, check-in with yourself and see if it would be good to talk with a therapist. These kinds of blows can be really devastating and you might appreciate having the opportunity to process with someone, especially while you're insured.
posted by brookeb at 6:22 PM on September 27, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by brookeb at 6:22 PM on September 27, 2020 [2 favorites]
Three or four months ago, a new boss was brought in
and it sounds to me like now he's performing The Purge. This is a New Boss manoeuvre as unfortunately common as the New Head of Marketing "First, Change the Logo" move.
Once The Purge is done, the next step will be Jobs For the Boys. New Boss will start poaching people he's worked with before from his previous employer, offering them more than they were making over there and quite probably more than you're being paid at present.
So it's got nothing to do with you, or your performance, or your seniority, or your loyalty to the company or any of that. It's all to do with the New Boss being the kind of insecure, incompetent prick who only ever feels comfortable when surrounded by a familiar crew of sycophants and enablers.
Sounds like you had a good run, but it's time to move on. Get your new-job ducks in a row, but make this bastard work for his Purge. Start documenting every interaction; get a good paper trail happening. And lawyer up. He will Purge you, but you can make doing that very expensive and have quite a lot of that expense end up on your bottom line.
And don't let loyalty to the company slow you down. The company is not worth your loyalty. If it was, they would never have allowed in a fucknuckle like this to put their long-standing employees through his kind of mill, especially not in a pandemic.
posted by flabdablet at 6:01 AM on September 28, 2020 [6 favorites]
and it sounds to me like now he's performing The Purge. This is a New Boss manoeuvre as unfortunately common as the New Head of Marketing "First, Change the Logo" move.
Once The Purge is done, the next step will be Jobs For the Boys. New Boss will start poaching people he's worked with before from his previous employer, offering them more than they were making over there and quite probably more than you're being paid at present.
So it's got nothing to do with you, or your performance, or your seniority, or your loyalty to the company or any of that. It's all to do with the New Boss being the kind of insecure, incompetent prick who only ever feels comfortable when surrounded by a familiar crew of sycophants and enablers.
Sounds like you had a good run, but it's time to move on. Get your new-job ducks in a row, but make this bastard work for his Purge. Start documenting every interaction; get a good paper trail happening. And lawyer up. He will Purge you, but you can make doing that very expensive and have quite a lot of that expense end up on your bottom line.
And don't let loyalty to the company slow you down. The company is not worth your loyalty. If it was, they would never have allowed in a fucknuckle like this to put their long-standing employees through his kind of mill, especially not in a pandemic.
posted by flabdablet at 6:01 AM on September 28, 2020 [6 favorites]
I've been in this position more or less, without the PIP but with layoffs coming and it was clear I was targeted despite top performance.
Here's what I learned: Try your hardest to /uninvest/ in your current company and job as quickly as possible. Do a good job, because that's the professional you are, but don't twist yourself in knots emotionally or professionally. I wish I had done this as that year (it took a while due to a corporate sale) really beat me down.
I will say that although I certainly didn't love it (and it wasn't a pandemic), being laid off was one of the best things that ever happened to me. I hadn't realized how many other opportunities were out there not just to make my mortgage payment but really to learn and grow and work with different people with different ideas and develop new strengths. It was hard; the first few months in my exciting new job I felt like my brain was exploding 'cause I'd been in the same corporate environment for about 9 years and I had to learn a whole whack of just internal stuff over again, plus new things in my job.
But it really rejuvenated my relationship to work. Not just because of that but because when I took my experience elsewhere, it was valued. Hang in there, and move as quickly as you can to your next success.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:14 AM on September 28, 2020 [3 favorites]
Here's what I learned: Try your hardest to /uninvest/ in your current company and job as quickly as possible. Do a good job, because that's the professional you are, but don't twist yourself in knots emotionally or professionally. I wish I had done this as that year (it took a while due to a corporate sale) really beat me down.
I will say that although I certainly didn't love it (and it wasn't a pandemic), being laid off was one of the best things that ever happened to me. I hadn't realized how many other opportunities were out there not just to make my mortgage payment but really to learn and grow and work with different people with different ideas and develop new strengths. It was hard; the first few months in my exciting new job I felt like my brain was exploding 'cause I'd been in the same corporate environment for about 9 years and I had to learn a whole whack of just internal stuff over again, plus new things in my job.
But it really rejuvenated my relationship to work. Not just because of that but because when I took my experience elsewhere, it was valued. Hang in there, and move as quickly as you can to your next success.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:14 AM on September 28, 2020 [3 favorites]
Not oversensitive and you should definitely fight either to keep the job or to receive the best possible compensation. If you write to HR or other higher-ups, document all of the praise you've received and contributions you've made over the years, not just the most recent commendation. It should be made clear that the case against you doesn't hold up.
Can you get in touch with the two employees who left to find out what happened and, importantly, what kind of package they were able to negotiate if that was a factor? It's potentially empowering information to you, in the way that knowing other employees' salary and benefits packages can be empowering.
posted by trig at 9:37 AM on September 28, 2020
Can you get in touch with the two employees who left to find out what happened and, importantly, what kind of package they were able to negotiate if that was a factor? It's potentially empowering information to you, in the way that knowing other employees' salary and benefits packages can be empowering.
posted by trig at 9:37 AM on September 28, 2020
You are not overreacting. He is planning to fire you regardless of what you do. He is trying to make it cheap and easy by getting you to self-terminate.
Accept that you will not be working at this company long-term. Continue to do a good job, but mentally detach. Ask him for the actual written “performance improvement plan”. Get all your prior performance reviews, accolades, etc. together away from work. Get a copy of any employment handbook. Go see an employment lawyer or three. Do not talk to HR or other employees about this until you have seen an employment lawyer. The purpose of the lawyer will be to negotiate your severance package. You can get a great severance package and still take another job. Do not quit and do not tell anyone, except perhaps your spouse, that you are seeing an employment lawyer. Finally, follow the lawyer’s advice.
This all takes nerves of steel. I wish you the best of luck in coming out well from this obviously unfair situation.
posted by KayQuestions at 11:54 AM on September 28, 2020 [4 favorites]
Accept that you will not be working at this company long-term. Continue to do a good job, but mentally detach. Ask him for the actual written “performance improvement plan”. Get all your prior performance reviews, accolades, etc. together away from work. Get a copy of any employment handbook. Go see an employment lawyer or three. Do not talk to HR or other employees about this until you have seen an employment lawyer. The purpose of the lawyer will be to negotiate your severance package. You can get a great severance package and still take another job. Do not quit and do not tell anyone, except perhaps your spouse, that you are seeing an employment lawyer. Finally, follow the lawyer’s advice.
This all takes nerves of steel. I wish you the best of luck in coming out well from this obviously unfair situation.
posted by KayQuestions at 11:54 AM on September 28, 2020 [4 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by cakelite at 10:14 AM on September 27, 2020 [50 favorites]