What's up with vibroacoustic therapy?
July 9, 2020 11:09 AM Subscribe
It's really expensive and I don't get it. Can't I just get a bone conducting speaker and place it on me?
I recently became interested in vibroacoustics since there's apparently some evidence that it helps slow alzheimers progression and helping with autism as well. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1750946708000895
I learned about it from an adult with Autism who raves about it. But he lives in the UK and goes to a spa-like place there to get his treatments. I don't live anywhere near him. I found this site which sell products, but they're expensive and even the smallest item requires $70 shipping for some reason. https://www.vibro-therapy.com/collection1
I don't see why I can't just get me a bone conducting speaker like this and just play music while the speaker is on the person to give targeted affect.
I recently became interested in vibroacoustics since there's apparently some evidence that it helps slow alzheimers progression and helping with autism as well. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1750946708000895
I learned about it from an adult with Autism who raves about it. But he lives in the UK and goes to a spa-like place there to get his treatments. I don't live anywhere near him. I found this site which sell products, but they're expensive and even the smallest item requires $70 shipping for some reason. https://www.vibro-therapy.com/collection1
I don't see why I can't just get me a bone conducting speaker like this and just play music while the speaker is on the person to give targeted affect.
Response by poster: Yes but I was told that those shakers don't actually emit any sound and only vibrate like any vibration tool.
posted by fantasticness at 10:42 PM on July 9, 2020
posted by fantasticness at 10:42 PM on July 9, 2020
Sound is just vibration at a frequency within the range that the human ear can resolve!
posted by Alterscape at 10:51 PM on July 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Alterscape at 10:51 PM on July 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
Yes but I was told that those shakers don't actually emit any sound and only vibrate like any vibration tool.
With the strong caveat that this all smells suspiciously like unverified "woo" - it seems highly likely that some unscrupulous folks have taken some authentic research findings and exaggerated the claims of results and simplified the treatment to make a buck;
As Alterscape says, sound is vibration. Mostly it's waves of vibrating air molecules, and lower frequencies, like the ones supposedly found useful in vibroacoustic therapy, are larger waves. Larger waves require more air movement, which is accomplished in a couple of ways; 1) large speakers, like 15 to 18 inches in diameter, 2) putting smaller speakers inside a specifically designed box (often a fairly large one) that uses the volume of air inside the box to produce stronger low frequencies than these speakers would produce without that box, and 3) a fairly significant amount of power driving the speakers in 1 and/or 2.
The chairs and tables sold by some of the companies may be using method 2 - although I have some strong doubts about that - but in either case I don't see how it matters. If the point of vibroacoustic therapy is to "stimulate cells" by vibrating them at very low frequencies, then in order to actually vibrate cells with audible sound, you would need some combination of large speakers, specially designed enclosures for those speakers, and lots of power making those speakers vibrate in order to generate large and powerful enough waves of air molecules to "vibrate cells."
Or you could just "vibrate cells" more directly by using a device that will vibrate a piece of furniture that you're in contact with. Or there are even wearable "shakers" - Subpac, Woojer - that are clearly using larger transducers than the little thing you linked to. (Although I have no personal experience with those wearble things, so I can't say how well they work.)
(Also, side note, having watched that video at greater length, that little HumBird thing isn't really a "bone conduction" device, you don't attach it to your body, it's using the vibrations of whatever you rest it on to "boost" the low end vibration of air molecules, and again there's no way it's producing a strong enough effect to "vibrate cells.")
The TL:DR is that IF there is actually anything to the idea of some therapeutic benefit derived from vibrating cells at low frequencies, it can't possibly matter if the vibration is caused by audible sound.
posted by soundguy99 at 8:20 AM on July 10, 2020 [2 favorites]
With the strong caveat that this all smells suspiciously like unverified "woo" - it seems highly likely that some unscrupulous folks have taken some authentic research findings and exaggerated the claims of results and simplified the treatment to make a buck;
As Alterscape says, sound is vibration. Mostly it's waves of vibrating air molecules, and lower frequencies, like the ones supposedly found useful in vibroacoustic therapy, are larger waves. Larger waves require more air movement, which is accomplished in a couple of ways; 1) large speakers, like 15 to 18 inches in diameter, 2) putting smaller speakers inside a specifically designed box (often a fairly large one) that uses the volume of air inside the box to produce stronger low frequencies than these speakers would produce without that box, and 3) a fairly significant amount of power driving the speakers in 1 and/or 2.
The chairs and tables sold by some of the companies may be using method 2 - although I have some strong doubts about that - but in either case I don't see how it matters. If the point of vibroacoustic therapy is to "stimulate cells" by vibrating them at very low frequencies, then in order to actually vibrate cells with audible sound, you would need some combination of large speakers, specially designed enclosures for those speakers, and lots of power making those speakers vibrate in order to generate large and powerful enough waves of air molecules to "vibrate cells."
Or you could just "vibrate cells" more directly by using a device that will vibrate a piece of furniture that you're in contact with. Or there are even wearable "shakers" - Subpac, Woojer - that are clearly using larger transducers than the little thing you linked to. (Although I have no personal experience with those wearble things, so I can't say how well they work.)
(Also, side note, having watched that video at greater length, that little HumBird thing isn't really a "bone conduction" device, you don't attach it to your body, it's using the vibrations of whatever you rest it on to "boost" the low end vibration of air molecules, and again there's no way it's producing a strong enough effect to "vibrate cells.")
The TL:DR is that IF there is actually anything to the idea of some therapeutic benefit derived from vibrating cells at low frequencies, it can't possibly matter if the vibration is caused by audible sound.
posted by soundguy99 at 8:20 AM on July 10, 2020 [2 favorites]
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To the extent that vibroacoustic therapy may actually do anything, it seems to accomplish this via using very low frequencies. Ref: this article. Quote: "Cell-level responses are the basis of low-frequency sound stimulation (LFSS; also known as vibroacoustic therapy, physioacoustic therapy, or sound wave therapy), a process of applying low-frequency stimulation to the body. [. . . ] Koike and colleagues, for instance, found that low-frequency stimulation of 10–100 Hz induced enhancement of neurite outgrowth and, most importantly, that the effect of 40-Hz stimulation was approximately three times greater than that of nerve growth factor alone. The implication is that LFSS may slow the loss of brain cells."
Little bone conductor earbuds don't really generate those low frequencies, and almost certainly not at the power you would want to get some sort of therapeutic effect. If you want to try your own vibroacoustic therapy at home you'll want a "kicker" or "shaker" device as discussed in one of your previous questions.
posted by soundguy99 at 4:35 PM on July 9, 2020 [2 favorites]