Do you narrate your life to yourself in the third person?
June 15, 2020 4:24 AM Subscribe
I do this a lot, and only just now realised that not everybody does. I'm trying to figure out if this tendency in me is related to other issues I have. To do this it would be helpful to get a sense of if other people do it (and if so, when).
When I say I narrate my life to myself in the third person I mean I do the following in the following contexts:
Thinking about the past: Say I am remembering how I took the train in to work one day. I'll think "she used to take the train in to work" and visualise myself as I must have looked from the outside stepping out of the train, walking across the street, etc (usually as seen from above). I don't always think of myself in the third person when thinking about the past -- if I don't, it's in first person and I'm in my body, they are my actual memories as I experienced them -- but I often do. Like multiple times daily I default to this "external" view of myself and the third person narration, like I'm reading a book about myself. It's not a conscious thing to choose one or the other at all, it's just normal to me to do either of them, and I'm not clear what drives which I do when.
Daydreaming. This includes either daydreaming about something I might do in the future, or imagining other people talking about me or interpreting things I've done. I consider both in the same way, as if I'm the omniscient third-person narrator seeing myself do these things or watching people talk about me. It's pretty rare for me to daydream about myself any other way than third person, although I suppose I occasionally will.
In the present. This is more rare than the others, but sometimes I'll "step out of" my body and kind of watch myself do things and narrate it to myself that way. Including narrating my feelings ("she felt angry as she read the article") but usually just my actions. Most of the time I do not experience the present like this, but I still do this reasonably often, like, multiple times a week. It is never conscious to do one way or another.
Like I said, I assumed that everybody did this but only in the last few days have I asked people and it turns out that nobody else I spoke to does! So now I'm wondering if I've had a restricted sample and some people do, or if I'm really an outlier.
I want to know this for several good reasons besides simple curiosity.
1. I have identified that I have a very strong tendency and bad habit of dissociating a lot. Probably rooted in gender dysphoria in combination with some bad coping mechanisms from very early on. But anyway I do it so often I don't always notice I'm doing it, and I'm now wondering if this tendency toward third-person narration is a hallmark of that (and a possible way for me to identify when I'm doing it, and stop, because it's not very healthy as one's unconscious go-to solution to emotional distress). If other people don't do it then that would suggest that maybe it is related to dissociation.
2. I'm trans, and it distresses me a great deal that my internal narrative voice always uses my old name and the wrong pronoun. I don't know if this is just habit, or if the third person narration in part reflects my discomfort with that name and those pronouns -- like, as soon as I start imagining people as they see me or myself with them, I cease to be able to identify with myself and I have to do it in the third person? I have lately tried changing the pronouns when I notice I'm doing it, and it feels weird and terrible, and usually it disrupts the daydream entirely, or else I just find myself doing it in first person. I don't know what any of this means. It would be useful if I knew more about how normal any of this was, whether you're cis or trans, and if other people do it if there are patterns in how they do it that might be revealing about why I do it.
In some sense this isn't a big deal -- whatever, one's inner life is one's inner life -- but because I think it might be revealing about two huge things that I've been wrestling with a lot lately (my transness and my tendency to dissociate) I think it's important. I'm going to bring it up with my therapist but I would also just like to have more of a sense of what most people's experience is.
So... do you narrate your life in the third person? If you do, when and how? If not, how do you talk to yourself? I'm interested in everyone's answers, from yes to no, cis and trans and everything in between.
When I say I narrate my life to myself in the third person I mean I do the following in the following contexts:
Thinking about the past: Say I am remembering how I took the train in to work one day. I'll think "she used to take the train in to work" and visualise myself as I must have looked from the outside stepping out of the train, walking across the street, etc (usually as seen from above). I don't always think of myself in the third person when thinking about the past -- if I don't, it's in first person and I'm in my body, they are my actual memories as I experienced them -- but I often do. Like multiple times daily I default to this "external" view of myself and the third person narration, like I'm reading a book about myself. It's not a conscious thing to choose one or the other at all, it's just normal to me to do either of them, and I'm not clear what drives which I do when.
Daydreaming. This includes either daydreaming about something I might do in the future, or imagining other people talking about me or interpreting things I've done. I consider both in the same way, as if I'm the omniscient third-person narrator seeing myself do these things or watching people talk about me. It's pretty rare for me to daydream about myself any other way than third person, although I suppose I occasionally will.
In the present. This is more rare than the others, but sometimes I'll "step out of" my body and kind of watch myself do things and narrate it to myself that way. Including narrating my feelings ("she felt angry as she read the article") but usually just my actions. Most of the time I do not experience the present like this, but I still do this reasonably often, like, multiple times a week. It is never conscious to do one way or another.
Like I said, I assumed that everybody did this but only in the last few days have I asked people and it turns out that nobody else I spoke to does! So now I'm wondering if I've had a restricted sample and some people do, or if I'm really an outlier.
I want to know this for several good reasons besides simple curiosity.
1. I have identified that I have a very strong tendency and bad habit of dissociating a lot. Probably rooted in gender dysphoria in combination with some bad coping mechanisms from very early on. But anyway I do it so often I don't always notice I'm doing it, and I'm now wondering if this tendency toward third-person narration is a hallmark of that (and a possible way for me to identify when I'm doing it, and stop, because it's not very healthy as one's unconscious go-to solution to emotional distress). If other people don't do it then that would suggest that maybe it is related to dissociation.
2. I'm trans, and it distresses me a great deal that my internal narrative voice always uses my old name and the wrong pronoun. I don't know if this is just habit, or if the third person narration in part reflects my discomfort with that name and those pronouns -- like, as soon as I start imagining people as they see me or myself with them, I cease to be able to identify with myself and I have to do it in the third person? I have lately tried changing the pronouns when I notice I'm doing it, and it feels weird and terrible, and usually it disrupts the daydream entirely, or else I just find myself doing it in first person. I don't know what any of this means. It would be useful if I knew more about how normal any of this was, whether you're cis or trans, and if other people do it if there are patterns in how they do it that might be revealing about why I do it.
In some sense this isn't a big deal -- whatever, one's inner life is one's inner life -- but because I think it might be revealing about two huge things that I've been wrestling with a lot lately (my transness and my tendency to dissociate) I think it's important. I'm going to bring it up with my therapist but I would also just like to have more of a sense of what most people's experience is.
So... do you narrate your life in the third person? If you do, when and how? If not, how do you talk to yourself? I'm interested in everyone's answers, from yes to no, cis and trans and everything in between.
Best answer: I narrate about myself in the the third person like this, I also disassociate alot. I generally do it in a way to get through difficult situations or to focus like sky needs to get up now. Sky needs to go to work. Sky needs to get dressed now. I usually use my name.
I identify as non-binary, but not trans. Sometimes I get stressed when I don't look like I want to, and experience derealization symptoms, which I use the narration to cope with.
posted by AlexiaSky at 4:31 AM on June 15, 2020
I identify as non-binary, but not trans. Sometimes I get stressed when I don't look like I want to, and experience derealization symptoms, which I use the narration to cope with.
posted by AlexiaSky at 4:31 AM on June 15, 2020
Sometimes I do, but usually not quite so definitively, more like I end up having an internal dialectic going on where I'll be thinking or narrating events in first person, I should do this, I can't believe I did that, and then a second narration or thought will kick in to correct or offer an alternative view to the first person monologue.
When, for example, I find myself getting too wrapped up in some view of events, past or present, I might have a third person voice interject asking to get that other guy to shut up, which I guess means I also hold some notion of a self between the first person narrating voice and the interjecting one that the latter must be speaking to, which I guess might seem strange, but does fit with my awareness of the narrative as an added voice, not exactly representative of my acting consciousness more an explanation of it, drawing to notice the potential or actual decisions I make and don't make. If that makes any sense.
posted by gusottertrout at 4:56 AM on June 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
When, for example, I find myself getting too wrapped up in some view of events, past or present, I might have a third person voice interject asking to get that other guy to shut up, which I guess means I also hold some notion of a self between the first person narrating voice and the interjecting one that the latter must be speaking to, which I guess might seem strange, but does fit with my awareness of the narrative as an added voice, not exactly representative of my acting consciousness more an explanation of it, drawing to notice the potential or actual decisions I make and don't make. If that makes any sense.
posted by gusottertrout at 4:56 AM on June 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
Datapoint: Cis woman, middle-aged. I do a fair bit of navelgazing, narrating my own life to myself, thinking up journal entries or letters I never actually write down, and I generally use first person for that (except maybe, when writing to some fictional letter recipient, wanting to sound arch or something, but then only for a sentence or so).
I have my own share of quirks, obviously (eg. "writing" to some fictional letter recipient) and my own ways of being detached (thinking about the present situation as if it happend years in the past, "In my youth I used to..." while still being in my youth, etc.), but third person is not one of them.
I generally don't spend much time imagining how others see me (I can ruminate for hours on things they said about me but it's mostly about whether I agree or not; I'm generally trying to take things on face value and not to guess too much about true meanings and stuff) and my daydreaming is usually about very concrete plans in the forseeable future, fond memories of better times, and stories I make up for myself about completely fictional people in completely fictional settings dramatically unrelated to everything going on in my own life.
posted by sohalt at 5:02 AM on June 15, 2020
I have my own share of quirks, obviously (eg. "writing" to some fictional letter recipient) and my own ways of being detached (thinking about the present situation as if it happend years in the past, "In my youth I used to..." while still being in my youth, etc.), but third person is not one of them.
I generally don't spend much time imagining how others see me (I can ruminate for hours on things they said about me but it's mostly about whether I agree or not; I'm generally trying to take things on face value and not to guess too much about true meanings and stuff) and my daydreaming is usually about very concrete plans in the forseeable future, fond memories of better times, and stories I make up for myself about completely fictional people in completely fictional settings dramatically unrelated to everything going on in my own life.
posted by sohalt at 5:02 AM on June 15, 2020
Cis man, middle aged. I used to do this ALL THE TIME and can remember talking about it with another student in a college writing class who like me, was feeling a bit worried about it. It tapered off as my work and home life got more challenging over the years. I've been a “day dreamer” since I was a little kid and still fall into reveries both pleasant and unpleasant, several times a day. I also hand out a ridiculous amount of advice here on the green and now wonder if it's related somehow.
posted by bonobothegreat at 5:20 AM on June 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by bonobothegreat at 5:20 AM on June 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
My internal narrative voice is the same as the ones I have been reading the most. If I am reading or writing a lot of first person narratives it comes out in first person, which is the most common one for me. If I read a lot of non fiction or fiction written in the third person my internal narrative comes out in third person. If I have been reading lots of non fiction I monologue in the typical narrative voice of a non fiction book, running a lot of expository statements, not just descriptions.
I suspect if I ever get into listening to podcasts or watching film with audio my internal narrative voice will add an auditory component and there will be auditory cues like accent, as opposed to it being the same voice I hear when reading, which is I think, a composite of voices that I would consider accent neutral but which other people tell me is both way too fast and over enunciated.
My type of internal narrative voice has never bothered me, but there are times when it gets exhausting always have a voice over.
It might be worth binge reading autobiographies and fiction written in the first person and consciously practicing to see if you can shift into the first person internally by this modeling.
I disassociate whenever I get a chance to as I find it an extremely useful tool for emotional modulation, amusement, and perspective. I make fewer social errors when in a somewhat disassociated state than I do when responding to sensory stimuli without the buffer. Mindfulness is, after all, a dissociative state.
posted by Jane the Brown at 5:28 AM on June 15, 2020 [3 favorites]
I suspect if I ever get into listening to podcasts or watching film with audio my internal narrative voice will add an auditory component and there will be auditory cues like accent, as opposed to it being the same voice I hear when reading, which is I think, a composite of voices that I would consider accent neutral but which other people tell me is both way too fast and over enunciated.
My type of internal narrative voice has never bothered me, but there are times when it gets exhausting always have a voice over.
It might be worth binge reading autobiographies and fiction written in the first person and consciously practicing to see if you can shift into the first person internally by this modeling.
I disassociate whenever I get a chance to as I find it an extremely useful tool for emotional modulation, amusement, and perspective. I make fewer social errors when in a somewhat disassociated state than I do when responding to sensory stimuli without the buffer. Mindfulness is, after all, a dissociative state.
posted by Jane the Brown at 5:28 AM on June 15, 2020 [3 favorites]
Haha, I’m glad to see this question. I’ve always thought it came from reading a lot. I imagine myself as the subject of like, a New Yorker profile.
posted by kevinbelt at 6:12 AM on June 15, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by kevinbelt at 6:12 AM on June 15, 2020 [5 favorites]
I can't imagine ever doing that. I am a 57-year-old lesbian with Asperger's.
posted by NotLost at 6:14 AM on June 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by NotLost at 6:14 AM on June 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
Best answer: So... do you narrate your life in the third person? If you do, when and how? If not, how do you talk to yourself? I'm interested in everyone's answers, from yes to no, cis and trans and everything in between.
Yes, I do this too. Constantly - "...there he is, writing a metafilter response..."
So you are not alone. I even have internal, sometimes long, dialogues with myself. It is helpful in trying to think abut things.
I've never thought about the past as anything other than third-person.
Datapoint. Cis, male, middle-aged. Latino who has always felt like an outsider. History of depression in the past but this way of thinking has been a constant.
posted by vacapinta at 6:24 AM on June 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
Yes, I do this too. Constantly - "...there he is, writing a metafilter response..."
So you are not alone. I even have internal, sometimes long, dialogues with myself. It is helpful in trying to think abut things.
I've never thought about the past as anything other than third-person.
Datapoint. Cis, male, middle-aged. Latino who has always felt like an outsider. History of depression in the past but this way of thinking has been a constant.
posted by vacapinta at 6:24 AM on June 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
Old cis woman, ADHD and anxiety. Used to do it a lot when I was a child and some as an adult. Now my self-narration is nearly always in the first person. Still a day dreamer although not as much as when I was younger. I miss being daydreamy.
posted by Bella Donna at 6:25 AM on June 15, 2020
posted by Bella Donna at 6:25 AM on June 15, 2020
Best answer: I can't speak to the third person part, as I don't do this myself, but as someone who changed their pronouns a few years back, it took a surprisingly long time for my internal sense of self to catch up and start using the correct pronouns. I would get mad when I inadvertently misgendered myself or wonder if it was a sign that I wasn't "really" non-binary, but over time it's shifted. Consciously thinking about myself in the third person using the correct pronouns has helped and now my brain uses the right ones nine times out of ten.
To put it another way, you've spent x amount of years of your life being called by a certain name and certain pronouns; that's baked into the way you think about yourself, and the decision to start using a different name or pronouns isn't going to get baked in over the top instantly, or just because you've made the decision consciously. It also used to feel very wrong and weird to call myself by the correct pronouns, but now it doesn't, from a combination of hearing other people using them to describe me (in the spaces in my life where I'm out) and from gradually integrating the new pronouns into my sense of self.
posted by terretu at 6:27 AM on June 15, 2020
To put it another way, you've spent x amount of years of your life being called by a certain name and certain pronouns; that's baked into the way you think about yourself, and the decision to start using a different name or pronouns isn't going to get baked in over the top instantly, or just because you've made the decision consciously. It also used to feel very wrong and weird to call myself by the correct pronouns, but now it doesn't, from a combination of hearing other people using them to describe me (in the spaces in my life where I'm out) and from gradually integrating the new pronouns into my sense of self.
posted by terretu at 6:27 AM on June 15, 2020
58yo cis het more-or-less neurotypical male: no, I never do that.
If not, how do you talk to yourself?
I usually don't. It's too hard to hear anything over the constant racket of the internal radio station playing random snippets and grabs of music the whole time I'm awake. Mostly, if I'm talking or writing I'm addressing somebody else, and if I appear to be struggling to work out what to say, what's generally happening in here is that I'm just waiting for some idea or other to assemble itself into a coherent train of words.
About the only time I can reliably hear self-talk is when I'm really really angry. Then, it generally sounds like me just yelling a lot, and in general the yelling will be about other people rather than about me, so the first person / third person distinction doesn't apply.
This is most frequently resolved by whichever bit of me is DJing the internal radio sticking this on at top volume until the absurdity of the whole poo-flinging enraged-monkey response becomes apparent, at which point I'll generally find myself just laughing at myself rather than experiencing further self-talk.
posted by flabdablet at 6:40 AM on June 15, 2020
If not, how do you talk to yourself?
I usually don't. It's too hard to hear anything over the constant racket of the internal radio station playing random snippets and grabs of music the whole time I'm awake. Mostly, if I'm talking or writing I'm addressing somebody else, and if I appear to be struggling to work out what to say, what's generally happening in here is that I'm just waiting for some idea or other to assemble itself into a coherent train of words.
About the only time I can reliably hear self-talk is when I'm really really angry. Then, it generally sounds like me just yelling a lot, and in general the yelling will be about other people rather than about me, so the first person / third person distinction doesn't apply.
This is most frequently resolved by whichever bit of me is DJing the internal radio sticking this on at top volume until the absurdity of the whole poo-flinging enraged-monkey response becomes apparent, at which point I'll generally find myself just laughing at myself rather than experiencing further self-talk.
posted by flabdablet at 6:40 AM on June 15, 2020
I don't narrate my life as I live it; and I experience memories as relived flashes, not narrated stories. Which is odd, because reading fiction is and always has been very important to me; I'm surprised it doesn't more overtly shape the way I experience the world.
I have a constant inner voice, which I gather isn't true of everyone, but it's first-person and geared towards worry and conjecture. I hold conversations with myself inside my head sometimes (typically telling myself what to do next, or remarking on my current state of mind or health), so I also address myself in the second person, but I never use third.
I do sometimes picture myself in the third person, usually from behind and above. If I think about my commute, for instance, and choose to call up a mental image rather than just thinking about it in the abstract, I might see myself in the process of stepping off the train; if I think about my desk at work, I might see myself sitting at it. I actually feel a bit panicky if I try to put my consciousness into that person, which is unexpected. I don't seem to want to imagine how it feels to be physically present in a location I'm picturing. Didn't know that.
Cis woman (though I don't feel strongly gendered, if that matters or indeed makes any sense), with various anxiety issues.
posted by ManyLeggedCreature at 6:41 AM on June 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
I have a constant inner voice, which I gather isn't true of everyone, but it's first-person and geared towards worry and conjecture. I hold conversations with myself inside my head sometimes (typically telling myself what to do next, or remarking on my current state of mind or health), so I also address myself in the second person, but I never use third.
I do sometimes picture myself in the third person, usually from behind and above. If I think about my commute, for instance, and choose to call up a mental image rather than just thinking about it in the abstract, I might see myself in the process of stepping off the train; if I think about my desk at work, I might see myself sitting at it. I actually feel a bit panicky if I try to put my consciousness into that person, which is unexpected. I don't seem to want to imagine how it feels to be physically present in a location I'm picturing. Didn't know that.
Cis woman (though I don't feel strongly gendered, if that matters or indeed makes any sense), with various anxiety issues.
posted by ManyLeggedCreature at 6:41 AM on June 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
I experience memories as relived flashes, not narrated stories
Me too.
reading fiction is and always has been very important to me; I'm surprised it doesn't more overtly shape the way I experience the world.
Me too.
posted by flabdablet at 6:43 AM on June 15, 2020 [2 favorites]
Me too.
reading fiction is and always has been very important to me; I'm surprised it doesn't more overtly shape the way I experience the world.
Me too.
posted by flabdablet at 6:43 AM on June 15, 2020 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Wow, I hadn't thought about this in a long time! I used to do this a lot when I was a kid but I don't anymore. And indeed, I was extremely depressed, anxious, and shy as a kid, and I hadn't yet come to terms with the fact that I'm nonbinary/agender. I never thought of those things as connected, but there's definitely a correlation between when I stopped narrating my life to myself in the third person and when I started approaching my mental health and gender identity in a healthier way. I do think it would make sense that this was a sort of disassociation or depersonalization of my own experiences and memories.
posted by capricorn at 7:19 AM on June 15, 2020
posted by capricorn at 7:19 AM on June 15, 2020
The introduction to the either the first or second large book of Doonesbury cartoons was literally about how the characters do this a lot and how people in general do this. I can't remember who wrote it - either Gary Willis or William F. Buckley - but it particularly focused on people doing their personal sports narratives (he shoots - he scores). It's been a very long time since I read it, but it seemed like a more male thing to me, and I think Gloria Steinem even wrote about that when she did an intro to a Doonesbury collection.
I (cis female, age 61) use to do this more when I was a kid, but don't do it much anymore. I remember thinking of myself like a character in a book. And being a writer has been a huge part of my identity for as long as I can remember.
posted by FencingGal at 7:23 AM on June 15, 2020
I (cis female, age 61) use to do this more when I was a kid, but don't do it much anymore. I remember thinking of myself like a character in a book. And being a writer has been a huge part of my identity for as long as I can remember.
posted by FencingGal at 7:23 AM on June 15, 2020
Yes, I do this and have since I was a child. My therapist informed me that it can be a method for coping with emotional neglect -- if a child doesn't have an attentive and emotionally attuned caretaker who was listening to them talk about their life, they will create one. Mine happens in the first person and I would describe it as me narrating/speaking to an imaginary audience about what is happening or how I'm feeling.
I've decided that for me this is part of a series of symptoms of trauma from childhood that include dissociation and maladaptive daydreaming like you describe. I've decided that these behaviors are mostly harmless but I am working to reduce the amount of time I spend in those states by doing mindfulness work and considering when I catch myself narrating if this is a topic that I need to spend time working over with another person.
posted by Colonel_Chappy at 9:04 AM on June 15, 2020 [4 favorites]
I've decided that for me this is part of a series of symptoms of trauma from childhood that include dissociation and maladaptive daydreaming like you describe. I've decided that these behaviors are mostly harmless but I am working to reduce the amount of time I spend in those states by doing mindfulness work and considering when I catch myself narrating if this is a topic that I need to spend time working over with another person.
posted by Colonel_Chappy at 9:04 AM on June 15, 2020 [4 favorites]
I certainly don't do this although I've known people who do, either because I've overheard their mumbling narration, or they've told me about it. I cannot relate.
posted by Rash at 9:22 AM on June 15, 2020
posted by Rash at 9:22 AM on June 15, 2020
I do this a lot. First and especially third person; present and especially past tense. I also explain things I know to myself, constantly, as if teaching a child.
Journalling in the third person (which a therapist recommended trying) feels awkward and unpleasant, though.
(I am a middle aged cis queer depressive woman with a somewhat neglected childhood).
posted by Edna Million at 9:27 AM on June 15, 2020
Journalling in the third person (which a therapist recommended trying) feels awkward and unpleasant, though.
(I am a middle aged cis queer depressive woman with a somewhat neglected childhood).
posted by Edna Million at 9:27 AM on June 15, 2020
Best answer: This is a great question. It relates to one I asked a few years ago: What do you call yourself in the second person singular?
posted by signal at 9:49 AM on June 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by signal at 9:49 AM on June 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
Third person is pretentious and first person is plebian. I prefer the more avant garde strict-second-person narration.
/s (except I really do the secon-dperson thing.)
(Oh and I'm 38, female, have ADHD, had a bad childhood, am a compulsive reader and full time writer who also moonlights as a writer.)
posted by MiraK at 9:53 AM on June 15, 2020 [2 favorites]
/s (except I really do the secon-dperson thing.)
(Oh and I'm 38, female, have ADHD, had a bad childhood, am a compulsive reader and full time writer who also moonlights as a writer.)
posted by MiraK at 9:53 AM on June 15, 2020 [2 favorites]
Yep. Did this involuntarily from childhood. Stopped gradually when I hit middle age. I had therapists who refused to believe it was actually a thing.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:59 AM on June 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:59 AM on June 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
I don't do this - I tend to talk to myself like 'you' instead. "You shouldn't have done that" etc :')
posted by thereader at 12:57 PM on June 15, 2020
posted by thereader at 12:57 PM on June 15, 2020
Fascinating question and responses. I don't think I ever really think about myself in the third person at all, nor do I really have a "narration" of my experiences going in my head, either for current experiences or remembered ones. Explicitly trying to think of myself in the third person by narrating a memory or current experience feels affected and somewhat unpleasant to me, possibly connected to how much anxiety I often have over how others (may) perceive me. In general my memories "feel" very first-person, without any narration at all. When I do have an internal "narrator" it is generally speaking in the second person, usually being unkind, as in "What the hell are you doing, biogeo? Get back to work, you sad sack!" The rest of the time it's just me, in direct first-person experience, addressing an indifferent universe, as in "Now what did I come in this room for? Ugh, I can't remember at all. Maybe if I wait a minute... nope, nope, nothing. Step back into the other room and.... ah, right, a spoon!"
I wonder whether this dimension of our internal narrative voices is a response to our anxieties and traumas, or whether those are just reflected within our internal narrative voice, whichever grammatical person we might map that voice/experience onto.
posted by biogeo at 1:05 PM on June 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
I wonder whether this dimension of our internal narrative voices is a response to our anxieties and traumas, or whether those are just reflected within our internal narrative voice, whichever grammatical person we might map that voice/experience onto.
posted by biogeo at 1:05 PM on June 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
I, a cis woman in her 50s, used to do this a lot up through my late 20s. I had a tough childhood, and I was a voracious reader. I still do a bit of it, but rarely, and mostly after (as another person mentioned above) reading something written in third person.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 1:10 PM on June 15, 2020
posted by WalkerWestridge at 1:10 PM on June 15, 2020
I don't remember having an inner voice at all until I learned to read at age eight, and when it showed up then as I was looking over a very wordy Classic Comic I would otherwise have had little chance of understanding, it was extremely startling. At first I thought I'd left the radio on.
But that voice also turned out to be the voice of my conscience, and after that I went from being an extremely impulsive and often violent little kid that my parents had already blocked one district from sending to reform school to a kid who could follow rules enough for my school to tolerate me, though grudgingly.
I think people who do not read silently might not have as strong and omnipresent an inner voice as people who do.
Interestingly, schizophrenics, who often believe an inner voice is external, tend to recall reading aloud passages that they in fact read silently.
posted by jamjam at 1:18 PM on June 15, 2020 [2 favorites]
But that voice also turned out to be the voice of my conscience, and after that I went from being an extremely impulsive and often violent little kid that my parents had already blocked one district from sending to reform school to a kid who could follow rules enough for my school to tolerate me, though grudgingly.
I think people who do not read silently might not have as strong and omnipresent an inner voice as people who do.
Interestingly, schizophrenics, who often believe an inner voice is external, tend to recall reading aloud passages that they in fact read silently.
posted by jamjam at 1:18 PM on June 15, 2020 [2 favorites]
feels... and somewhat unpleasant to me, possibly connected to how much anxiety I often have...
Yes, yes it was indeed unpleasant. And yes, I’m also pretty sure it was related to anxiety.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 1:55 PM on June 15, 2020
Yes, yes it was indeed unpleasant. And yes, I’m also pretty sure it was related to anxiety.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 1:55 PM on June 15, 2020
I generally talk to myself in the second person. Like biogeo, it's generally negative things, though I'm working on that. A lot of my memories are traumatic. In those, I flip between being in my body and feeling everything and looking down on myself. With neutral or positive memories, it's almost always me looking at myself from the outside.
posted by kathrynm at 2:26 PM on June 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by kathrynm at 2:26 PM on June 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
I do this all the time! (She thought excitedly)
I’ve always chalked it up to reading a lot at a young age shaped my thought patterns that way.
posted by Weeping_angel at 2:35 PM on June 15, 2020
I’ve always chalked it up to reading a lot at a young age shaped my thought patterns that way.
posted by Weeping_angel at 2:35 PM on June 15, 2020
Best answer: I have been narrating my life to myself since childhood, though it ebbs and flows, and it flips between first and second person. I also dissociated quite a bit when I was younger and am fairly analytical as an adult. I always thought it was because I'm a big reader, but I figured out I was trans last year and started wondering if gender dysphoria was part of it. I think it's actually decreased since starting to transition. So this has been very interesting to read!
(I definitely refer to myself quite a bit in she/her pronouns - I'm AFAB - and it's really frustrating.)
posted by lunasol at 8:16 PM on June 15, 2020
(I definitely refer to myself quite a bit in she/her pronouns - I'm AFAB - and it's really frustrating.)
posted by lunasol at 8:16 PM on June 15, 2020
(Cis woman.) I have thought about something related a lot in the last couple years and gone looking around the internet (to little avail) for the same type of information you’re seeking here: Is the way I do it normal? Does the way I do it mean anything?
I do not ever use the third person. My experience seems very similar to Colonel_Chappy. Most of my mind-wandering or daydreaming is like conversational processing (stories, opinions, explanations) and takes place in an form that I’ve labeled pseudo-dialogue. By this, I mean I identify as The Speaker and I am talking (using “I/me” pronouns) to an imagined audience that I will call The Listener, who I do not identify with, even though I fully understand “they” are just my own mind at work. While this process gives me the firm illusion that it’s a dialogue, I’ve noticed The Listener speaks rarely. However, when they do, it can sometimes be just as surprising and useful as if I actually sought an outside perspective, which I find interesting.
The Listener is almost always a single person and at any given time they have a nominal identity that is a real person, someone I know. I feel them much more than I visualize them. I tend to cast the same person as The Listener persistently for a while, like months or years. As with what you’re saying about changing the pronouns, I cannot intentionally change the identity without disrupting the whole process. I used to worry a lot about the meaning of the identity of the Listener—actually, that’s what motivated me to self-observe more recently. Part of learning not to focus as much on the matter of “who” was using that concern as a bridge to tuning into my own process and seeing what else is going on in there.
For me, I noticed that while The Listener takes on some characteristics of that real person, they are mostly not like that person and are more like a generic therapist character. They listen patiently, without judgment, keeping an attitude of positive regard. This realization hit me like a ton of bricks, because I used to frame this process in terms that I think I see some hints of in your question: Oh, I’m doing this weird maybe, or my way must have something to do with my issues. Well, yeah, probably. But also, for example, every time I self-flagellated to The Listener about how horrible I am and identified with those thoughts, I also felt The Listener’s response and it was never like, “Oh yeah, you’re really that bad.” (Now, if my self-reproach is appropriate, The Listener tends to wisely serve as a conscience to the best of their/my ability, not that I always take the hint.) It has to be this way or I couldn’t keep talking to The Listener in general. But, duh, The Listener is really just me. I was a tireless friend to myself the whole time! Maybe it is or isn’t true that I gave myself the imaginary friend of The Listener as a coping mechanism for social isolation, since not everyone does it this way—who could say—but if I did, it’s so adaptive. Brains are amazing. I’m so glad you asked this question and I encourage you to look for what’s working well in your way of doing it, too.
Regarding your distress about pronouns...I still sometimes wish I could just make my process a monologue or talk to a mirror of myself cast as The Listener, but I tried and so far I can’t. I hope you find more success with change if you want. Instead, if I’m feeling worn out on the two-person thing (say I get mad at that person, I’ll get stuck in my head too and it can start to feel endless), I can at least take a break. Distractions work of course, but when I’m still in need of resolving a particular issue, I can either meditate or write in a journal using first-person only to access a slightly different way of thinking. These are generally good alternatives for rumination, but I wonder if you could journal with your correct pronouns or in the first-person to get temporary control over that aspect.
I also have observed briefer and more task-oriented inner speech that doesn’t fall into my pseudo-dialogue mode. I’m not as sure about this, but it seems like I might tend to use “I/me” pronouns to emote and then “you” or “we” pronouns to implement executive functioning. I experience this mode as a monologue regardless of the pronouns. Example: “Ugh, I don’t want to go in, I’m so over life. Okay, you have to go. Let’s just open the car door and put one foot down, then the next...”
posted by zizania at 10:25 PM on June 20, 2020 [2 favorites]
I do not ever use the third person. My experience seems very similar to Colonel_Chappy. Most of my mind-wandering or daydreaming is like conversational processing (stories, opinions, explanations) and takes place in an form that I’ve labeled pseudo-dialogue. By this, I mean I identify as The Speaker and I am talking (using “I/me” pronouns) to an imagined audience that I will call The Listener, who I do not identify with, even though I fully understand “they” are just my own mind at work. While this process gives me the firm illusion that it’s a dialogue, I’ve noticed The Listener speaks rarely. However, when they do, it can sometimes be just as surprising and useful as if I actually sought an outside perspective, which I find interesting.
The Listener is almost always a single person and at any given time they have a nominal identity that is a real person, someone I know. I feel them much more than I visualize them. I tend to cast the same person as The Listener persistently for a while, like months or years. As with what you’re saying about changing the pronouns, I cannot intentionally change the identity without disrupting the whole process. I used to worry a lot about the meaning of the identity of the Listener—actually, that’s what motivated me to self-observe more recently. Part of learning not to focus as much on the matter of “who” was using that concern as a bridge to tuning into my own process and seeing what else is going on in there.
For me, I noticed that while The Listener takes on some characteristics of that real person, they are mostly not like that person and are more like a generic therapist character. They listen patiently, without judgment, keeping an attitude of positive regard. This realization hit me like a ton of bricks, because I used to frame this process in terms that I think I see some hints of in your question: Oh, I’m doing this weird maybe, or my way must have something to do with my issues. Well, yeah, probably. But also, for example, every time I self-flagellated to The Listener about how horrible I am and identified with those thoughts, I also felt The Listener’s response and it was never like, “Oh yeah, you’re really that bad.” (Now, if my self-reproach is appropriate, The Listener tends to wisely serve as a conscience to the best of their/my ability, not that I always take the hint.) It has to be this way or I couldn’t keep talking to The Listener in general. But, duh, The Listener is really just me. I was a tireless friend to myself the whole time! Maybe it is or isn’t true that I gave myself the imaginary friend of The Listener as a coping mechanism for social isolation, since not everyone does it this way—who could say—but if I did, it’s so adaptive. Brains are amazing. I’m so glad you asked this question and I encourage you to look for what’s working well in your way of doing it, too.
Regarding your distress about pronouns...I still sometimes wish I could just make my process a monologue or talk to a mirror of myself cast as The Listener, but I tried and so far I can’t. I hope you find more success with change if you want. Instead, if I’m feeling worn out on the two-person thing (say I get mad at that person, I’ll get stuck in my head too and it can start to feel endless), I can at least take a break. Distractions work of course, but when I’m still in need of resolving a particular issue, I can either meditate or write in a journal using first-person only to access a slightly different way of thinking. These are generally good alternatives for rumination, but I wonder if you could journal with your correct pronouns or in the first-person to get temporary control over that aspect.
I also have observed briefer and more task-oriented inner speech that doesn’t fall into my pseudo-dialogue mode. I’m not as sure about this, but it seems like I might tend to use “I/me” pronouns to emote and then “you” or “we” pronouns to implement executive functioning. I experience this mode as a monologue regardless of the pronouns. Example: “Ugh, I don’t want to go in, I’m so over life. Okay, you have to go. Let’s just open the car door and put one foot down, then the next...”
posted by zizania at 10:25 PM on June 20, 2020 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
It's 10 years later and I still kind of miss it.
posted by Cheerwell Maker at 4:29 AM on June 15, 2020