I ended things after 1 date, and now I'm second-guessing.
January 6, 2020 4:32 PM Subscribe
I met a guy via a Match.com event and we seemed to hit it off so we scheduled a date. The date went well. However I kept having what I thought was a gut feeling that something was off about him. He seemed to be a very nice guy, and it would be easy to get together since we live in the same town. My mind was convinced though that there could be "skeletons in his closet" even though there was no evidence. There were also things in his Match.com profile that were putting me off (e.g. only one picture, it was sparse, etc), plus there were small things that came up in our conversation on the date that put me off slightly (e.g. he didn't seem like a cat person, and cats are a HUGE part of my life. And once or twice it felt like he was telling me what I should do/giving me suggestions). BUT we did have good chemistry and never once was it awkward, like it usually is on my first dates. At the end of the date I felt good about seeing him again initially, but after a few days that nagging "but what about the skeletons...run away quickly" feeling came back again.
I was away for the holiday and so we'd planned to meet again this month for a second date. BUT while I was away, I decided to go ahead and end things because I was 100% convinced he was not right for me. I sent him a nice text to say I didn't think we were a match but that he's a great guy and would be a wonderful match for the right person. he sent me a nice message back.
I felt like I had made the right decision...until now. I happened to go back on Match and see his profile, and it seems like he's filled it in a bit more since the last time I saw it. I had actually not even checked his profile before I ended things, so I'm not sure when he updated it. Based on what's on his profile now, it seems like he IS a good match. Maybe I rushed to judge him too quickly? Maybe he just hadn't had time to fill it out? He added more pictures, filled in more info, updated his preferences (which almost match mine, etc). Have I made a huge mistake?
Not sure what I should do. Should I try to contact him again and see if he's willing to get together again? I wouldn't blame him in the LEAST if he doesn't want to though, since I already disappointed him by telling him I didn't think we were a good match. Or should I let it go? I would hate to see him, decide once again he's not a good fit, and end it a SECOND time. That wouldn't be fair to him.
To be honest, this whole online dating thing has me so confused. I want a relationship, but some part of me is also freaking out and worried because you never know who is crazy. I guess I've watched too many stalker Lifetime movies. How do you know for sure if that nagging feeling about someone is intuition or just overprotective anxiety? I think at least some of the anxiety I had around him was the fact that I ended up giving him my real number when normally I use a throwaway number. But we were so short on time at the Match event and my throwaway number wasn't working (because I'd just transitioned to a new phone) that in my haste I just gave him my real number. And regretted it. My mind made up all kinds of stories about how he would look me up and I think that's what set me off on thinking he has skeletons and to run away from him, etc. So it wasn't really fair to him. Anyway, any suggestions from those who have better dating prowess than I would be appreciated. Thank you!
I was away for the holiday and so we'd planned to meet again this month for a second date. BUT while I was away, I decided to go ahead and end things because I was 100% convinced he was not right for me. I sent him a nice text to say I didn't think we were a match but that he's a great guy and would be a wonderful match for the right person. he sent me a nice message back.
I felt like I had made the right decision...until now. I happened to go back on Match and see his profile, and it seems like he's filled it in a bit more since the last time I saw it. I had actually not even checked his profile before I ended things, so I'm not sure when he updated it. Based on what's on his profile now, it seems like he IS a good match. Maybe I rushed to judge him too quickly? Maybe he just hadn't had time to fill it out? He added more pictures, filled in more info, updated his preferences (which almost match mine, etc). Have I made a huge mistake?
Not sure what I should do. Should I try to contact him again and see if he's willing to get together again? I wouldn't blame him in the LEAST if he doesn't want to though, since I already disappointed him by telling him I didn't think we were a good match. Or should I let it go? I would hate to see him, decide once again he's not a good fit, and end it a SECOND time. That wouldn't be fair to him.
To be honest, this whole online dating thing has me so confused. I want a relationship, but some part of me is also freaking out and worried because you never know who is crazy. I guess I've watched too many stalker Lifetime movies. How do you know for sure if that nagging feeling about someone is intuition or just overprotective anxiety? I think at least some of the anxiety I had around him was the fact that I ended up giving him my real number when normally I use a throwaway number. But we were so short on time at the Match event and my throwaway number wasn't working (because I'd just transitioned to a new phone) that in my haste I just gave him my real number. And regretted it. My mind made up all kinds of stories about how he would look me up and I think that's what set me off on thinking he has skeletons and to run away from him, etc. So it wasn't really fair to him. Anyway, any suggestions from those who have better dating prowess than I would be appreciated. Thank you!
Unless you’ve had a massive change of heart regarding the red flags (and you’ve figured out exactly why they were raised in the first place), just let this one go and file the experience away for future reference. It just seems far to easy to get caught up in an infinite loop of double and triple-guessing yourself with the current groundwork laid.
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 4:45 PM on January 6, 2020 [37 favorites]
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 4:45 PM on January 6, 2020 [37 favorites]
Maybe something like:
"Mike, I was thinking again about what a lovely time I had with you last Thursday. I feel like we really had so much in common. I think I let some general anxiety about the dating process get in the way of seeing you again. I'm sure you understand how weird and stressful this whole thing is! Any chance you'd be game to meet up again for another date? I'd love to take you out to Restaurant X for dinner, and of course it's on me! Hope you're well, starpoint"
posted by ClaireBear at 4:46 PM on January 6, 2020 [5 favorites]
"Mike, I was thinking again about what a lovely time I had with you last Thursday. I feel like we really had so much in common. I think I let some general anxiety about the dating process get in the way of seeing you again. I'm sure you understand how weird and stressful this whole thing is! Any chance you'd be game to meet up again for another date? I'd love to take you out to Restaurant X for dinner, and of course it's on me! Hope you're well, starpoint"
posted by ClaireBear at 4:46 PM on January 6, 2020 [5 favorites]
My gut feeling is that you should trust your gut feeling. Unless you know a very specific reason not to, always trust your gut.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 4:56 PM on January 6, 2020 [39 favorites]
posted by Sing Or Swim at 4:56 PM on January 6, 2020 [39 favorites]
I would be cautious about giving him another chance under these circumstances. It's not that I think or know he's a bad guy, because how could I? But you thought something was off about him enough to be worried about it. If you try again, will you still be able to honour those gut feelings and warnings? Or will you constantly be second-guessing yourself about whether your feelings that something is off about him are wrong? I can imagine a lot of scenarios in which you talk yourself into continuing to date him, even as red flags you would normally observe and react to start to pile up because you already talked yourself back into wanting to date him once and you don't want to seem super flaky.
Maybe you're a stronger more centered person than that -- I don't know you, so I can't say whether you are or aren't, obviously -- but I know I would have trouble walking away a second time in the circumstances you describe.
posted by jacquilynne at 4:58 PM on January 6, 2020 [12 favorites]
Maybe you're a stronger more centered person than that -- I don't know you, so I can't say whether you are or aren't, obviously -- but I know I would have trouble walking away a second time in the circumstances you describe.
posted by jacquilynne at 4:58 PM on January 6, 2020 [12 favorites]
The times when I haven’t listened to a gut feeling about something being off have backfired in horrible, sometimes dangerous ways. I’d let this one go.
posted by corey flood at 5:08 PM on January 6, 2020 [20 favorites]
posted by corey flood at 5:08 PM on January 6, 2020 [20 favorites]
To be honest, this whole online dating thing has me so confused. I want a relationship, but some part of me is also freaking out and worried because you never know who is crazy.
Okay, so are you new to online dating? Have you had any dates go past one or two? I'm wondering if much of this is due to your anxiety about online dating and perhaps some self-sabotaging tendencies... like, are you wondering if he's too good to be true? Do you generally try to find the worst in a situation?
For the record, I don't think giving someone your real phone number before you meet in person is some sort of wantonly self-destructive move. I do that often because it's much more convenient to not have to check the app all the time to coordinate logistics. I'm not saying you should do it, but also don't let a good thing go because of that.
Folks are saying trust your gut, but it seems like you are also having a whole lot of anxiety about this, and sometimes anxiety tells us stories that aren't based in reality.
As for specific issues:
he didn't seem like a cat person, and cats are a HUGE part of my life.
Okay, if he were allergic to cats, that would be a major issue. But not being super excited about cats? That's really ... not a reason your relationship can't move forward even if you are a cat trainer.
And once or twice it felt like he was telling me what I should do/giving me suggestions
Like, mansplaining? Being a bit overbearing? I wouldn't say this is a huge red flag, but something to be attuned to if you get together again.
You're right that if you reach out to him, he might not be interested. But I also don't think you have a lot to lose by reaching out. Because a second date isn't a relationship. It's just a chance to see if you want a third date.
I'd go with something like, "Happy New Year! I had a great time on our first date, and I wondered if you'd still be up for a second. Can I take you out to dinner?" I wouldn't even go into an explanation. On your date, if he asks, you can say something like, "You know, I'm new to online dating, and I think I just watched too many Lifetime movies and scared myself." And leave it at that. It would be funny and sweet, I think.
Good luck working through this.
posted by bluedaisy at 5:25 PM on January 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Okay, so are you new to online dating? Have you had any dates go past one or two? I'm wondering if much of this is due to your anxiety about online dating and perhaps some self-sabotaging tendencies... like, are you wondering if he's too good to be true? Do you generally try to find the worst in a situation?
For the record, I don't think giving someone your real phone number before you meet in person is some sort of wantonly self-destructive move. I do that often because it's much more convenient to not have to check the app all the time to coordinate logistics. I'm not saying you should do it, but also don't let a good thing go because of that.
Folks are saying trust your gut, but it seems like you are also having a whole lot of anxiety about this, and sometimes anxiety tells us stories that aren't based in reality.
As for specific issues:
he didn't seem like a cat person, and cats are a HUGE part of my life.
Okay, if he were allergic to cats, that would be a major issue. But not being super excited about cats? That's really ... not a reason your relationship can't move forward even if you are a cat trainer.
And once or twice it felt like he was telling me what I should do/giving me suggestions
Like, mansplaining? Being a bit overbearing? I wouldn't say this is a huge red flag, but something to be attuned to if you get together again.
You're right that if you reach out to him, he might not be interested. But I also don't think you have a lot to lose by reaching out. Because a second date isn't a relationship. It's just a chance to see if you want a third date.
I'd go with something like, "Happy New Year! I had a great time on our first date, and I wondered if you'd still be up for a second. Can I take you out to dinner?" I wouldn't even go into an explanation. On your date, if he asks, you can say something like, "You know, I'm new to online dating, and I think I just watched too many Lifetime movies and scared myself." And leave it at that. It would be funny and sweet, I think.
Good luck working through this.
posted by bluedaisy at 5:25 PM on January 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Your gut has likely been influencing your whole life up to now. If you're happy with where you are and your past dating decisions then I would say to continue going with your gut. If you aren't then maybe you can try ignoring your gut. I go with my gut a lot and am usually happy with how things turn out but I'm a guy so the risks are different.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 5:30 PM on January 6, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 5:30 PM on January 6, 2020 [7 favorites]
Pay close attention to this:
small things that came up in our conversation on the date that put me off slightly (e.g. ... once or twice it felt like he was telling me what I should do/giving me suggestions)
Was it once? Or was it twice? Maybe you could try writing down these one or two parts of the conversation as best you can remember them. and see if you can get some emotional distance, and make an objective analysis. Was he telling you what to do (overstepping boundaries) or giving you suggestions (trying to help)? This matters.
Based on what's on his profile now, it seems like he IS a good match. Maybe I rushed to judge him too quickly? Maybe he just hadn't had time to fill it out? He added more pictures, filled in more info, updated his preferences (which almost match mine, etc).
Even if you make the most generous assumptions about when and why he made these changes, no profile info, no photos, and no shared interests can compare in importance to the glimpses you've gotten into his character on your date. Focus on making sense of what you have seen of his character.
BTW, living in the same town, no awkward moments, and all the rest, all matters less than character. Focus on: is he kind to you and others? Look at behavior, not words.
posted by Former Congressional Representative Lenny Lemming at 5:54 PM on January 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
small things that came up in our conversation on the date that put me off slightly (e.g. ... once or twice it felt like he was telling me what I should do/giving me suggestions)
Was it once? Or was it twice? Maybe you could try writing down these one or two parts of the conversation as best you can remember them. and see if you can get some emotional distance, and make an objective analysis. Was he telling you what to do (overstepping boundaries) or giving you suggestions (trying to help)? This matters.
Based on what's on his profile now, it seems like he IS a good match. Maybe I rushed to judge him too quickly? Maybe he just hadn't had time to fill it out? He added more pictures, filled in more info, updated his preferences (which almost match mine, etc).
Even if you make the most generous assumptions about when and why he made these changes, no profile info, no photos, and no shared interests can compare in importance to the glimpses you've gotten into his character on your date. Focus on making sense of what you have seen of his character.
BTW, living in the same town, no awkward moments, and all the rest, all matters less than character. Focus on: is he kind to you and others? Look at behavior, not words.
posted by Former Congressional Representative Lenny Lemming at 5:54 PM on January 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
I almost never ever ever am happy with the results of giving a second chance to anyone after a definitive “no” in the moment. At best you’ll likely be underwhelmed and at worst your gut will be really right.
Keep searching and wait for that guy that makes you SALIVATE to see them again.
posted by Dressed to Kill at 6:05 PM on January 6, 2020 [9 favorites]
Keep searching and wait for that guy that makes you SALIVATE to see them again.
posted by Dressed to Kill at 6:05 PM on January 6, 2020 [9 favorites]
Please don't try to talk yourself out of listening to a gut feeling. Doubt means don't.
posted by selfmedicating at 6:25 PM on January 6, 2020 [10 favorites]
posted by selfmedicating at 6:25 PM on January 6, 2020 [10 favorites]
Something in your gut said "don't have a second date with this guy." I don't think it matters whether that something is about him or about you.
I mean, yes, your brain might be making up stories about how terrible he could turn out to be that are not true at all and are based purely on too many horror movies, and maybe that means you're in a headspace where all dating feels that way and you'll have to do a bunch of first dates with nice people until that fades. That would be ok! You could allow yourself to do that. You'll be ready for a second date when you're ready for a second date.
I think contacting this guy for another date will put you in a position of second-guessing yourself about all your future interactions with him as well, so I wouldn't recommend it. Keep it as a pleasant date and a couple of nice messages where nothing went wrong and no feelings were hurt, hooray!
posted by inexorably_forward at 6:46 PM on January 6, 2020 [6 favorites]
I mean, yes, your brain might be making up stories about how terrible he could turn out to be that are not true at all and are based purely on too many horror movies, and maybe that means you're in a headspace where all dating feels that way and you'll have to do a bunch of first dates with nice people until that fades. That would be ok! You could allow yourself to do that. You'll be ready for a second date when you're ready for a second date.
I think contacting this guy for another date will put you in a position of second-guessing yourself about all your future interactions with him as well, so I wouldn't recommend it. Keep it as a pleasant date and a couple of nice messages where nothing went wrong and no feelings were hurt, hooray!
posted by inexorably_forward at 6:46 PM on January 6, 2020 [6 favorites]
Always trust your gut, especially when it comes to online dating. ALWAYS. You don't need to justify anything -- your feeling is enough.
It's also especially true in online dating that even if there's nothing wrong with your date, that doesn't mean it's right. They can be good matches on paper, they can be a decent date in person, but that is not at all saying that they're a good fit for you. That's where your gut comes in, and your gut is never wrong.
And even if you made a mistake (which I don't believe), you're allowed to make mistakes. Learn and move on to the next opportunity.
posted by Capt. Renault at 6:54 PM on January 6, 2020 [4 favorites]
It's also especially true in online dating that even if there's nothing wrong with your date, that doesn't mean it's right. They can be good matches on paper, they can be a decent date in person, but that is not at all saying that they're a good fit for you. That's where your gut comes in, and your gut is never wrong.
And even if you made a mistake (which I don't believe), you're allowed to make mistakes. Learn and move on to the next opportunity.
posted by Capt. Renault at 6:54 PM on January 6, 2020 [4 favorites]
(Also, as a general rule, hold off on people until they've populated their profile a bit more. It's an indicator of how much effort they're willing to put forward, if they're ready to be there, if they're hiding something, or a million other reasons. Just wait that little bit until you can make a safe judgement, however you define that.)
posted by Capt. Renault at 6:59 PM on January 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by Capt. Renault at 6:59 PM on January 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
I am all about listening to gut feelings. With that said, I also strongly feel that, for myself at least, I need to give myself at least a couple of dates with someone before I determine how I feel about them. If that gut feeling is still there, yes, trust it. But sometimes I've made a snap judgment on date one, only to realize that I was completely off after a couple more dates. Obviously if a major red flag comes up, don't give them a second chance. But if it's just a feeling, it may go away after you spend more time with the person. It's about the only time in my life I don't necessarily trust my gut outright.
You may be completely right, of course, but if you are those feelings will linger after a couple more dates.
I'm not sure you can try again with this guy, but you can take it as a lesson. You may just be a person that needs to give someone more than one chance. I am.
posted by Amy93 at 7:49 PM on January 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
You may be completely right, of course, but if you are those feelings will linger after a couple more dates.
I'm not sure you can try again with this guy, but you can take it as a lesson. You may just be a person that needs to give someone more than one chance. I am.
posted by Amy93 at 7:49 PM on January 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
What have you got to lose by contacting him?
posted by Ideefixe at 8:00 PM on January 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Ideefixe at 8:00 PM on January 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
It sounds like you're not comfortable with some aspects of online dating. So the issues you mention might be your anxiety, or they might be your gut truly warning you.
If I was the guy (I'm not, I'm female) I wouldn't be interested in you after you dropped me. You might be better to chalk this one up to experience and move on.
I met my husband online 20 years ago, so I have a couple of suggestions for you as you continue to online date:
1. Don't write anyone off until you've had two different dates with them - like once out to dinner, and once to the zoo or miniature golfing or something else active. Sometimes it's just the setting that makes things weird. When you meet the right guy, things will be easy and you will want to see him again!
2. However, whether it's on the phone or in person, once you definitely get a "NO" from your gut, end it and don't look back. You may be picking up on something you wouldn't notice openly until later. Only you know how good you are at picking up on signals from your gut.
3. My husband and I were thousands of miles apart, so we spent more than three months online and on the phone, swapping books we liked and sharing our thoughts on them, and briefly communicating with a friend or two of each other. By the time we physically met, we already knew each other well. It was weird for about five minutes, and has been wonderful ever since!
Don't give up - the more experience you get doing this, the easier it gets!
posted by summerstorm at 8:20 PM on January 6, 2020 [7 favorites]
If I was the guy (I'm not, I'm female) I wouldn't be interested in you after you dropped me. You might be better to chalk this one up to experience and move on.
I met my husband online 20 years ago, so I have a couple of suggestions for you as you continue to online date:
1. Don't write anyone off until you've had two different dates with them - like once out to dinner, and once to the zoo or miniature golfing or something else active. Sometimes it's just the setting that makes things weird. When you meet the right guy, things will be easy and you will want to see him again!
2. However, whether it's on the phone or in person, once you definitely get a "NO" from your gut, end it and don't look back. You may be picking up on something you wouldn't notice openly until later. Only you know how good you are at picking up on signals from your gut.
3. My husband and I were thousands of miles apart, so we spent more than three months online and on the phone, swapping books we liked and sharing our thoughts on them, and briefly communicating with a friend or two of each other. By the time we physically met, we already knew each other well. It was weird for about five minutes, and has been wonderful ever since!
Don't give up - the more experience you get doing this, the easier it gets!
posted by summerstorm at 8:20 PM on January 6, 2020 [7 favorites]
I would half-trust the gut and go on some dates with other people. See how those feel. And if this guy is still on the dating scene in a 2-3 months then consider asking him out again.
posted by bennett being thrown at 9:13 PM on January 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by bennett being thrown at 9:13 PM on January 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
Your gut said no. Your brain is the one saying maybe.
Gut is deep intuition, reacting to tiny but true details you don't even realize that you noticed.
Brain is a squirrel, getting anxious and lonely and bored and trying to do math on things that aren't solveable with math.
Gut is smarter. Always.
It's a no for me!
posted by nouvelle-personne at 9:19 PM on January 6, 2020 [12 favorites]
Gut is deep intuition, reacting to tiny but true details you don't even realize that you noticed.
Brain is a squirrel, getting anxious and lonely and bored and trying to do math on things that aren't solveable with math.
Gut is smarter. Always.
It's a no for me!
posted by nouvelle-personne at 9:19 PM on January 6, 2020 [12 favorites]
I think you've missed your chance (if any) on this one, but this is an opportunity to think about what bothered you and see if there is something there you can evaluate more consciously.
Your "gut" is a big bag of heuristics optimized for not causing too many of your ancestors to die childless. Multiple academic disciplines have arisen to study the ways in which your gut is very wrong, very consistently.
Which is not to say that you should ignore it entirely. By all means, treat it as an input. But think carefully about how to interpret its signals.
On a completely different note: you only have to get it right a few times, once assuming monogamous life partnerships, and it's very expensive to get it wrong, so it's perfectly reasonable to prefer lots of missed opportunities over a bad commitment.
posted by meaty shoe puppet at 10:01 PM on January 6, 2020 [6 favorites]
Your "gut" is a big bag of heuristics optimized for not causing too many of your ancestors to die childless. Multiple academic disciplines have arisen to study the ways in which your gut is very wrong, very consistently.
Which is not to say that you should ignore it entirely. By all means, treat it as an input. But think carefully about how to interpret its signals.
On a completely different note: you only have to get it right a few times, once assuming monogamous life partnerships, and it's very expensive to get it wrong, so it's perfectly reasonable to prefer lots of missed opportunities over a bad commitment.
posted by meaty shoe puppet at 10:01 PM on January 6, 2020 [6 favorites]
Does your gut usually tell you people are bad and untrustworthy and scary, or was this an outlier? If an outlier I'd trust it. If it's your baseline, though, you may want to start retraining your anxiety. Therapy is helpful.
As is whether this feeling was really from your gut (immediate reaction) or whether you had to really dredge it up and hunt for it to get the feeling to appear. Maybe you felt bad about breaking your own rule about phone numbers and so needed to give yourself a disaster to "pay" for the rule you had broken.
I once had a very useful session with a therapist that started with her asking me, very encouragingly and with a significant amount of concern, what about my recent ex had prompted me to leave and ended with a very helpful lesson about anxiety and the perils of acting like disaster is inevitable. Everyone's gut is not equally reliable.
posted by Lady Li at 12:21 AM on January 7, 2020 [5 favorites]
As is whether this feeling was really from your gut (immediate reaction) or whether you had to really dredge it up and hunt for it to get the feeling to appear. Maybe you felt bad about breaking your own rule about phone numbers and so needed to give yourself a disaster to "pay" for the rule you had broken.
I once had a very useful session with a therapist that started with her asking me, very encouragingly and with a significant amount of concern, what about my recent ex had prompted me to leave and ended with a very helpful lesson about anxiety and the perils of acting like disaster is inevitable. Everyone's gut is not equally reliable.
posted by Lady Li at 12:21 AM on January 7, 2020 [5 favorites]
Trust your gut.
posted by Shadow Boxer at 2:27 AM on January 7, 2020
posted by Shadow Boxer at 2:27 AM on January 7, 2020
I think “always trust your gut” is pretty terrible advice. I mean, think about it, if we always “trusted our gut” in every situation in life, we’d constantly be falling prey to any number of biases, misconceptions, and errs in judgment.
Instead, maybe even just as a thought experiment, I’d urge you to do the opposite — consider this case entirely on its merits. Ask yourself, “Were it not for this ‘gut feeling,’ would I give this person a second chance?”
In the end, you may even come to the same conclusion as you did the first time — maybe this guy doesn’t have a whole lot going on, or maybe cats are just really really important to you. But at least you will have made a good faith attempt to consider this person without falling prey to a number of well-known psychological bugaboos.
posted by panama joe at 2:58 AM on January 7, 2020 [5 favorites]
Instead, maybe even just as a thought experiment, I’d urge you to do the opposite — consider this case entirely on its merits. Ask yourself, “Were it not for this ‘gut feeling,’ would I give this person a second chance?”
In the end, you may even come to the same conclusion as you did the first time — maybe this guy doesn’t have a whole lot going on, or maybe cats are just really really important to you. But at least you will have made a good faith attempt to consider this person without falling prey to a number of well-known psychological bugaboos.
posted by panama joe at 2:58 AM on January 7, 2020 [5 favorites]
Leave it be for a while. Go on some other dates, and maybe if he is still in the back of your mind after a few months, contact him on a platonic-ish basis ("Hey I just saw this post about a Cowboy Boot Festival, and I remembered how much you were into cowboy boots. Thought you might like to know about it if you didn't already!") and see where the conversation goes.
posted by Rock Steady at 4:25 AM on January 7, 2020
posted by Rock Steady at 4:25 AM on January 7, 2020
Whew, a lot to unpack here.
The only "red flags" that you mention are that he doesn't seem like a big cat guy, and once or maybe twice during conversation he might have made suggestions regarding a situation you were telling him about. But then you go on to say that despite no evidence you're convinced he has "skeletons in the closet", "you never know who's crazy", and that you probably watch too many "stalker Lifetime movies". The things you marked here as "red flags" honestly don't seem like red flags to me. Red flags to me are, like, he's rude to people, or he tries to control me (talking over me, not letting me place my own dinner order, etc.), or in the course of conversation it's revealed that we have VERY different beliefs and ideologies that aren't compatible. Not liking cats or trying to give me advice aren't red flags to me, in the sense that I don't equate them with dangerous things like uncontrolled mental illness, deep dark hidden secrets, or someone stalking me. (Giving advice can be a red flag, but it's very dependent on context -- without knowing what advice he gave you or what situation you were talking about that spurred the offered advice, it's really impossible for anyone to confirm for you that his specific action was red flaggy.)
Do you have anxiety in general, or is it specifically dating that makes you anxious? Because there's a whole lot of anxiety coming across here, and it's so easy to interpret your anxiety as a "gut feeling" that someone is bad news, especially if you're bringing baggage to it like the idea that online dating means you're going to meet dangerous, scary people who want to hurt you. Especially when you say that your anxiety was kicked off when you gave him your real number, because then your anxiety "made up a lot of stories" about how he was going to cause you harm by knowing your real phone number. It's been a while since you gave him that number... have any of the things you were worried about come to pass? Was he inappropriate with the scant information about you that he has?
I don't think you should reach out to this guy again -- not because your gut might be right and he's a bad, dangerous man, but because I don't think there's any turning around of a situation in which you have one good date with a guy whose company you enjoyed and then you decide that he MUST have something he's hiding so you break it off. Put yourself in those shoes -- would you want to go on a second date with someone who had decided you were probably hiding something like a deep dark secret or a destructive mental illness but had talked themselves into giving it another shot because the chemistry was good and you made some adjustments to your Match profile?
What should you do going forward? Well, first, I think that what you say is a "gut feeling" is really your anxiety talking, so all these recommendations to always trust your gut really worry me -- I feel like you're being encouraged to let your anxiety run your dating life, which is SUCH a bad idea. Upthread someone asked if these gut feelings happen with other people, or if this one guy was an outlier -- that's probably a good thing for you to ponder, but since your entire last paragraph is an explanation of how much online dating frightens you and spurs a TON of anxiety for you, and I'm getting the impression that you're not a big dater in general, I'm not sure that closely examining your gut feelings about this guy in comparison to other people in your life is going to do much except more directly highlight for you the aspects of online dating that are making you extremely anxious.
I'm not able to pull up any of your previous AskMe questions, so I don't know if you're in therapy or if you have a diagnosis of anxiety, but if you have a diagnosis and you're in therapy, absolutely talk to your therapist about this. If you have a diagnosis but aren't currently in therapy, is therapy an option? Because getting some professional advice from someone who can help you navigate your anxiety would be super useful here.
In summation: don't reach out to this guy again, recalibrate your definition of red flags (for instance: someone not being into cats is disappointing but not actually a red flag, someone joking about hurting cats is a red flag), if a person is nice and you enjoy their company try going on at least two dates with them so that you can get to know them better, if you really are watching a lot of media that features stories of women in peril then it's time to take a break because it's making your dating anxiety much worse than it needs to be, and if possible talk to a therapist about some ways you can address your dating anxiety so that you're not plagued by worries that the guy you're trading flirty texts with is going to harm you.
posted by palomar at 5:59 AM on January 7, 2020 [20 favorites]
The only "red flags" that you mention are that he doesn't seem like a big cat guy, and once or maybe twice during conversation he might have made suggestions regarding a situation you were telling him about. But then you go on to say that despite no evidence you're convinced he has "skeletons in the closet", "you never know who's crazy", and that you probably watch too many "stalker Lifetime movies". The things you marked here as "red flags" honestly don't seem like red flags to me. Red flags to me are, like, he's rude to people, or he tries to control me (talking over me, not letting me place my own dinner order, etc.), or in the course of conversation it's revealed that we have VERY different beliefs and ideologies that aren't compatible. Not liking cats or trying to give me advice aren't red flags to me, in the sense that I don't equate them with dangerous things like uncontrolled mental illness, deep dark hidden secrets, or someone stalking me. (Giving advice can be a red flag, but it's very dependent on context -- without knowing what advice he gave you or what situation you were talking about that spurred the offered advice, it's really impossible for anyone to confirm for you that his specific action was red flaggy.)
Do you have anxiety in general, or is it specifically dating that makes you anxious? Because there's a whole lot of anxiety coming across here, and it's so easy to interpret your anxiety as a "gut feeling" that someone is bad news, especially if you're bringing baggage to it like the idea that online dating means you're going to meet dangerous, scary people who want to hurt you. Especially when you say that your anxiety was kicked off when you gave him your real number, because then your anxiety "made up a lot of stories" about how he was going to cause you harm by knowing your real phone number. It's been a while since you gave him that number... have any of the things you were worried about come to pass? Was he inappropriate with the scant information about you that he has?
I don't think you should reach out to this guy again -- not because your gut might be right and he's a bad, dangerous man, but because I don't think there's any turning around of a situation in which you have one good date with a guy whose company you enjoyed and then you decide that he MUST have something he's hiding so you break it off. Put yourself in those shoes -- would you want to go on a second date with someone who had decided you were probably hiding something like a deep dark secret or a destructive mental illness but had talked themselves into giving it another shot because the chemistry was good and you made some adjustments to your Match profile?
What should you do going forward? Well, first, I think that what you say is a "gut feeling" is really your anxiety talking, so all these recommendations to always trust your gut really worry me -- I feel like you're being encouraged to let your anxiety run your dating life, which is SUCH a bad idea. Upthread someone asked if these gut feelings happen with other people, or if this one guy was an outlier -- that's probably a good thing for you to ponder, but since your entire last paragraph is an explanation of how much online dating frightens you and spurs a TON of anxiety for you, and I'm getting the impression that you're not a big dater in general, I'm not sure that closely examining your gut feelings about this guy in comparison to other people in your life is going to do much except more directly highlight for you the aspects of online dating that are making you extremely anxious.
I'm not able to pull up any of your previous AskMe questions, so I don't know if you're in therapy or if you have a diagnosis of anxiety, but if you have a diagnosis and you're in therapy, absolutely talk to your therapist about this. If you have a diagnosis but aren't currently in therapy, is therapy an option? Because getting some professional advice from someone who can help you navigate your anxiety would be super useful here.
In summation: don't reach out to this guy again, recalibrate your definition of red flags (for instance: someone not being into cats is disappointing but not actually a red flag, someone joking about hurting cats is a red flag), if a person is nice and you enjoy their company try going on at least two dates with them so that you can get to know them better, if you really are watching a lot of media that features stories of women in peril then it's time to take a break because it's making your dating anxiety much worse than it needs to be, and if possible talk to a therapist about some ways you can address your dating anxiety so that you're not plagued by worries that the guy you're trading flirty texts with is going to harm you.
posted by palomar at 5:59 AM on January 7, 2020 [20 favorites]
You are dating the person, not the dating profile.
Things that you care about you should be asking and discussing with your date in person. You aren't going to learn everything about them in one date, and everyone has some kind of skeletons in their closet.
Go on dates with other people and figure out who you like based on the date, and ask those people out again, it might take a few dates to get to know them.
posted by TheAdamist at 6:41 AM on January 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
Things that you care about you should be asking and discussing with your date in person. You aren't going to learn everything about them in one date, and everyone has some kind of skeletons in their closet.
Go on dates with other people and figure out who you like based on the date, and ask those people out again, it might take a few dates to get to know them.
posted by TheAdamist at 6:41 AM on January 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
For someone like me with generalised anxiety, "always trust you gut" is terrible advice because if I did that I'd spend my life hiding under the bed. It seems to me from your question that you have anxiety about dating which is probably what caused your gut to say "run!" rather than anything specific about this guy. The fact that he sent you a nice message after you said you didn't want to see him again also speaks volumes about him. I think you have nothing to lose emailing him, apologising and asking him if he'd still be up for a second date.
posted by hazyjane at 6:44 AM on January 7, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by hazyjane at 6:44 AM on January 7, 2020 [3 favorites]
Wow, palomar said everything I wanted to touch on, and excellently at that! Please reread their comment.
Further on the note about not being a cat person; when I met my current wife, I would have described myself as a cat person, and definitely not a dog person. Heck, I have (not past tense) a fear of dogs (but mainly/mostly when they bark and/or might be chasing me). I didn't hate dogs; I was just afraid of them and didn't have much dog experience. My to-be wife already had a dog, so I got to know her (the dog). And hey, when she wasn't barking she was nice. I worked on learning better behaviour for myself when around dogs, and she pretty quickly seemed to accept/like me more than some other people she'd known longer.
When said dog eventually went to the rainbow bridge after a few months my to-be wife was missing the sound of skittering feet and prodigious amounts of slobber upon returning home. We went out together to the SPCA to end up adopting a nine month old lab-cross. We're on our third dog together, having up to two at a time.
But if my wife had been unwilling to consider me because I wasn't a dog person when we met our almost 19 years and counting relationship wouldn't have been.
posted by nobeagle at 7:24 AM on January 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
Further on the note about not being a cat person; when I met my current wife, I would have described myself as a cat person, and definitely not a dog person. Heck, I have (not past tense) a fear of dogs (but mainly/mostly when they bark and/or might be chasing me). I didn't hate dogs; I was just afraid of them and didn't have much dog experience. My to-be wife already had a dog, so I got to know her (the dog). And hey, when she wasn't barking she was nice. I worked on learning better behaviour for myself when around dogs, and she pretty quickly seemed to accept/like me more than some other people she'd known longer.
When said dog eventually went to the rainbow bridge after a few months my to-be wife was missing the sound of skittering feet and prodigious amounts of slobber upon returning home. We went out together to the SPCA to end up adopting a nine month old lab-cross. We're on our third dog together, having up to two at a time.
But if my wife had been unwilling to consider me because I wasn't a dog person when we met our almost 19 years and counting relationship wouldn't have been.
posted by nobeagle at 7:24 AM on January 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
To me this feels like it was a relatively pleasant date and if I were in your shoes, I'd probably think, nice, but let's see. I'd probably go on a second date to see if anything changes.
If I were super into cats and he didn't seem into them, I'd think, eh, that's disappointing, but not a dealbreaker. If he actively disliked them, or was allergic to them and I could never have cats around him, that would be a dealbreaker.
Telling me what I should do/giving me suggestions would also be offputting, but it's the sort of thing I would file away in my mind and see if it comes up again. I'd call it a light yellow flag, not a red one though.
On his profile changing: it just goes to show that making a good profile is so important and can really affect how people think of you. A huuuuge part of online dating is just marketing. Your profile, your messages, the first couple of dates... If there's chemistry, then at some point real intimacy begins to develop and you get to know each other as people - values, goals, history, etc. That said, I wouldn't put a lot of stock in his profile. Go on your IRL experience of him.
Now, onto you. You were convinced that there'd be skeletons in his closet even though there was no evidence. You were 100% convinced he was not right for you. You also have this general anxiety "you never know who is crazy." It seems like you giving out your real number precipitated all this. So he has your real number, and has anything happened? He responded very well when you told him you weren't a match, which is really good.
Do you trust your judgement of people? I mean yes, it's true that you never know who can suck you into some kind of bad situation - there are some real manipulators out there - this is why it's super important to have good boundaries and learn what red flags are, and trust that you can end things as soon as you see a red flag. Maybe this Dr. Nerdlove will help. I see sooo many stories from women (and men) who say "I ignored the red flags because I thought I should give him a second a chance, I didn't want to hurt him, I thought I was too harsh/judgemental." BULLSHIT. You have to put yourself first.
Online dating is really hard. Making connections with strangers based on their profile - it's kind of crazy when you think about it. Sometimes it works and you find your person. Sometimes you run into creeps, but that can happen in real life too. Sometimes you meet perfectly lovely people and they're just not right for you because they're not what you're looking for.
As for contacting him again, I don't think it's a good idea. You said to him that you don't think you're a good match. From his POV, it's just weird to see someone again who's already rejected you so that they confirm if they were right or wrong. It just puts a lot of pressure on both of you. In a way, you'd have to "make up" for rejecting him, and show why you were wrong, and you could end up confirming your decision anyway. For him, he might work too hard to prove you are a match and that could result in him not being genuine/trying to hide his shortcomings.
However, I don't want you to beat yourself up and think that you made a mistake and you ruined something great. You rejected him for a reason, and that's maybe to work on your own anxieties, more so than he has huge red flags. I was thinking that Rock Steady's approach was good, but now that I think about it, you only met him once and exchanged a few messages, so you barely know him. To contact him again a couple of months from now about something you saw that reminded you of him - it's a bit weird. You don't know him. By that time you will have moved on from him.
Like I said, online dating is hard. It's a learning process and you'll get better at it.
posted by foxjacket at 9:13 AM on January 7, 2020 [4 favorites]
If I were super into cats and he didn't seem into them, I'd think, eh, that's disappointing, but not a dealbreaker. If he actively disliked them, or was allergic to them and I could never have cats around him, that would be a dealbreaker.
Telling me what I should do/giving me suggestions would also be offputting, but it's the sort of thing I would file away in my mind and see if it comes up again. I'd call it a light yellow flag, not a red one though.
On his profile changing: it just goes to show that making a good profile is so important and can really affect how people think of you. A huuuuge part of online dating is just marketing. Your profile, your messages, the first couple of dates... If there's chemistry, then at some point real intimacy begins to develop and you get to know each other as people - values, goals, history, etc. That said, I wouldn't put a lot of stock in his profile. Go on your IRL experience of him.
Now, onto you. You were convinced that there'd be skeletons in his closet even though there was no evidence. You were 100% convinced he was not right for you. You also have this general anxiety "you never know who is crazy." It seems like you giving out your real number precipitated all this. So he has your real number, and has anything happened? He responded very well when you told him you weren't a match, which is really good.
Do you trust your judgement of people? I mean yes, it's true that you never know who can suck you into some kind of bad situation - there are some real manipulators out there - this is why it's super important to have good boundaries and learn what red flags are, and trust that you can end things as soon as you see a red flag. Maybe this Dr. Nerdlove will help. I see sooo many stories from women (and men) who say "I ignored the red flags because I thought I should give him a second a chance, I didn't want to hurt him, I thought I was too harsh/judgemental." BULLSHIT. You have to put yourself first.
Online dating is really hard. Making connections with strangers based on their profile - it's kind of crazy when you think about it. Sometimes it works and you find your person. Sometimes you run into creeps, but that can happen in real life too. Sometimes you meet perfectly lovely people and they're just not right for you because they're not what you're looking for.
As for contacting him again, I don't think it's a good idea. You said to him that you don't think you're a good match. From his POV, it's just weird to see someone again who's already rejected you so that they confirm if they were right or wrong. It just puts a lot of pressure on both of you. In a way, you'd have to "make up" for rejecting him, and show why you were wrong, and you could end up confirming your decision anyway. For him, he might work too hard to prove you are a match and that could result in him not being genuine/trying to hide his shortcomings.
However, I don't want you to beat yourself up and think that you made a mistake and you ruined something great. You rejected him for a reason, and that's maybe to work on your own anxieties, more so than he has huge red flags. I was thinking that Rock Steady's approach was good, but now that I think about it, you only met him once and exchanged a few messages, so you barely know him. To contact him again a couple of months from now about something you saw that reminded you of him - it's a bit weird. You don't know him. By that time you will have moved on from him.
Like I said, online dating is hard. It's a learning process and you'll get better at it.
posted by foxjacket at 9:13 AM on January 7, 2020 [4 favorites]
As someone that lives by intuition to the point of making major decisions solely on gut checks, I just want to point out that anxiety can also hijack internal processing of this nature. You can overanalyze and then convince yourself it is your gut.
I guess you could start by asking yourself was the initial reaction your gut or self sabotage /overanalyzing? If you live from your gut then your intuition should be able to give clear feedback to this question.
posted by crunchy potato at 11:06 AM on January 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
I guess you could start by asking yourself was the initial reaction your gut or self sabotage /overanalyzing? If you live from your gut then your intuition should be able to give clear feedback to this question.
posted by crunchy potato at 11:06 AM on January 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
After my very first date with a man who turned out to be abusive (like really, really, scary abusive), I felt a weirdly strong impulse to find out if he had a criminal record. I had never felt like that before with any other dates and there was absolutely nothing to suggest there was anything wrong with this guy. He mentioned that his first ever girlfriend, had died and it sometimes still upset him. I thought it was odd he'd mention that on a first date and it bugged me, and kept bugging me, but I rationalized it away.
I blew off those gut feelings and (because I was lucky) lived to regret it.
Just saying.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 12:26 PM on January 7, 2020 [3 favorites]
I blew off those gut feelings and (because I was lucky) lived to regret it.
Just saying.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 12:26 PM on January 7, 2020 [3 favorites]
This is exactly why all those dating experts recommend you meet someone relatively early, before you've spent weeks or months exchanging perfectly crafted/controlled messages. It's to avoid investing time before you meet and realize that there's something that just doesn't click quite right, for whatever reason.
Listen to your gut. If that means giving the guy one more chance and paying attention to how that date plays out, so be it. But if you do pursue this, you may always wonder about that weird feeling.
I got a similar feeling on a first date several years ago. Perfectly nice and charming guy, but something just didn't feel right. I almost turned down the second date, but wasn't doing anything better so decided to pursue it. It took a while to realize that he was not the guy I thought - and by that point I had invested time in the relationship and felt I should overlook the fundamental differences in our values. It was another two years before I fully extricated myself.
posted by writermcwriterson at 12:33 PM on January 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
Listen to your gut. If that means giving the guy one more chance and paying attention to how that date plays out, so be it. But if you do pursue this, you may always wonder about that weird feeling.
I got a similar feeling on a first date several years ago. Perfectly nice and charming guy, but something just didn't feel right. I almost turned down the second date, but wasn't doing anything better so decided to pursue it. It took a while to realize that he was not the guy I thought - and by that point I had invested time in the relationship and felt I should overlook the fundamental differences in our values. It was another two years before I fully extricated myself.
posted by writermcwriterson at 12:33 PM on January 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
The purpose of the profile is to decide if you'd like to meet the person. You met him; your gut said "something not clicking well here." Changing the details in the profile will not make you more compatible - you know how compatible you are: he's pleasant company, with a couple of possibly minor red flags, and no spark of "damn I really want to spend more time with him."
Unless something in his new profile is "omg if I'd known THAT, we could've been having amazing conversations about it!!!" I'd say pass. There doesn't have to be anything wrong with him for you to decide, "eh, not quite right for me."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:42 PM on January 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
Unless something in his new profile is "omg if I'd known THAT, we could've been having amazing conversations about it!!!" I'd say pass. There doesn't have to be anything wrong with him for you to decide, "eh, not quite right for me."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:42 PM on January 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by ClaireBear at 4:41 PM on January 6, 2020 [9 favorites]