Tell me about buying a used piano
December 12, 2019 5:52 PM Subscribe
I'd like to buy a secondhand upright piano, from Craigslist or similar. Advice, please?
I live in a city where there's quite a large selection of secondhand pianos, but I don't know what brands or features are good.
I'm assuming we'll move it ourselves in a van. At our house, it will be carried up 5 stairs into the house, then up 12 stairs, with a tight 90' turn to get into the room where it will live. Then I guess we'll hire a tuner to come tune it after moving? (How much would that cost?)
I would prefer a piano made of visible wood (not lacquered black), and at some point I'll probably paint it.
Low-ish budget, but we expect to use it for over a decade so we're ok spending a bit. Multiple members of our family, including an adult and a toddler - all beginners - will be playing it.
What brands of piano are good? At a glance, I see Heintzman, Mason and Risch, Bell, Bentley, Winter... are any of them inadvisable, or is it ok to just choose the one I find most attractive?
I've never owned a piano before so I welcome any advice - Thanks!
I live in a city where there's quite a large selection of secondhand pianos, but I don't know what brands or features are good.
I'm assuming we'll move it ourselves in a van. At our house, it will be carried up 5 stairs into the house, then up 12 stairs, with a tight 90' turn to get into the room where it will live. Then I guess we'll hire a tuner to come tune it after moving? (How much would that cost?)
I would prefer a piano made of visible wood (not lacquered black), and at some point I'll probably paint it.
Low-ish budget, but we expect to use it for over a decade so we're ok spending a bit. Multiple members of our family, including an adult and a toddler - all beginners - will be playing it.
What brands of piano are good? At a glance, I see Heintzman, Mason and Risch, Bell, Bentley, Winter... are any of them inadvisable, or is it ok to just choose the one I find most attractive?
I've never owned a piano before so I welcome any advice - Thanks!
If you buy a used piano, you’re spending too much. A lot of people give their pianos away, (I got mine for free when a friend moved, and I gave it away when I moved) because the cost of moving one and tuning it are quite expensive. Pianos are very heavy and difficult to move. Tuning can cost up to several hundred dollars, depending on when the piano was last tuned, and how out of tune it is. You better really, really, really want a piano in that room, because once it gets in there, it’s not coming back out, not even if you move. (Especially not if you move. That’s the point of giving away a piano, you’re not paying to move it.)
You might consider an electronic piano, since the quality of those has really come a long way since the Casiotone tinkletinks of the 80s.
posted by Autumnheart at 6:08 PM on December 12, 2019 [6 favorites]
You might consider an electronic piano, since the quality of those has really come a long way since the Casiotone tinkletinks of the 80s.
posted by Autumnheart at 6:08 PM on December 12, 2019 [6 favorites]
I see free ones on my Craig's List, too, provided you move it yourself.
My mother recently bought an electronic one and it sounds beautiful and has a very good key feel. It was in the $1-2k range. A free actual piano will probably still be less expensive even if you hire movers and get it tuned.
posted by quince at 6:23 PM on December 12, 2019
My mother recently bought an electronic one and it sounds beautiful and has a very good key feel. It was in the $1-2k range. A free actual piano will probably still be less expensive even if you hire movers and get it tuned.
posted by quince at 6:23 PM on December 12, 2019
Call around to local piano tuners, they may very well have a line on a good instrument. Just a thought but some folks want their piano to go to a good home.
posted by sammyo at 6:34 PM on December 12, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by sammyo at 6:34 PM on December 12, 2019 [2 favorites]
Oh, one tiny detail DO NOT try to move it by yourself, hire pros. Very easy to break the house in a few places and hurt the piano.
posted by sammyo at 6:38 PM on December 12, 2019 [12 favorites]
posted by sammyo at 6:38 PM on December 12, 2019 [12 favorites]
Agreed. Hernias are expensive.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:47 PM on December 12, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:47 PM on December 12, 2019 [1 favorite]
Never moved a piano but I've seen the process and if you don't know what you're doing and if the load-in is difficult, ABSOLUTELY hire an experienced piano mover. There are specific pieces of equipment to move a piano. Uprights are particularly ornery.
Good luck!
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 7:18 PM on December 12, 2019
Good luck!
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 7:18 PM on December 12, 2019
Buying a piano is all about the sound the feel. There’s no substitute for putting your hands on the keys and hearing the sound in person. I recommend responding to some of the Craigslist ads and setting up appointments to go and try the piano. It’s a good opportunity to talk to the owners as well. Find out the piano’s history, whether it’s been under the care of people who maintained it or just treated it as an annoying piece of furniture. The more pianos you try, you’ll start to have preferences for sound and touch.
I grew up on a Mason & Risch and it was in my family for at least 30 years before I was even born. We sold that piano when it was about 50 years old and I’m sure it’s still going today.
posted by bkpiano at 7:39 PM on December 12, 2019 [2 favorites]
I grew up on a Mason & Risch and it was in my family for at least 30 years before I was even born. We sold that piano when it was about 50 years old and I’m sure it’s still going today.
posted by bkpiano at 7:39 PM on December 12, 2019 [2 favorites]
As jessamyn mentioned, I have an Acrosonic spinnet built by Baldwin in the 1940's or 50's. It's worth about $700 nowadays. But it still sounds great, has a nice ring to it, and has been taken care of pretty well. I have it tuned (about $150/pop) whenever I move it, and again whenever it's dry season. (here, thats winter, which reminds me to call my piano tuner.)
This happens to be the piano my grandmother bought and played and my mother played as a kid; it was in my house for a while growing up, so over time, with minimal lessons, I learned how to play simple stuff. If you're an adult and wish to take lessons, a few pros have told me you could attain semi-expert proficiency if you took lessons, and practiced or played for 30 minutes a day, every day, for ten years.
Also, yeah, don't move it yourself. It's so easy to crack the soundboard, leaving you with something that wouldn't sound good at all. It's also art+muscle+motion+tetris to watch a good team of piano movers get it down a slim flight of stairs. My spinnet is small so it's relatively easy to move. (I had it taken in and then out of a garden apartment window; that was the only real way in.) But even so, I would hire movers if you care about the thing. And yeah hernias. Stairs? Hire movers. Really. Unless you happen to be the size of a WWE wrestler or an NFL linebacker. (Those are the people that usually move mind, and they're all YOUNG and TALL and MUSCULAR. I'm not attracted to men, but I was just amazed watching these people move the piano, it's almost worth the $400.) Corners and stairs? Yeah, get pros.
That said, I often wonder, for my purposes, if a digital piano would be sufficient. These days, they sound wonderful, are very portable, have well-weighted and adjustble keys, and cost a fraction of a good piano plus maintenance. On the other side of the equation, there;s nothing like the sound of an acoustic piano, and it's a lovely piece of furniture. And, it is the piano i grew up with, a family heirloom of sorts. That said, upkeep can be expensive, especially if you move a lot like I do. (Or you can get an out of tune banger off CL, a few friends with wheeled pallets, and use'em up like disposables.)
But yeah. Piano. I like mine.
posted by not_on_display at 8:38 PM on December 12, 2019 [4 favorites]
This happens to be the piano my grandmother bought and played and my mother played as a kid; it was in my house for a while growing up, so over time, with minimal lessons, I learned how to play simple stuff. If you're an adult and wish to take lessons, a few pros have told me you could attain semi-expert proficiency if you took lessons, and practiced or played for 30 minutes a day, every day, for ten years.
Also, yeah, don't move it yourself. It's so easy to crack the soundboard, leaving you with something that wouldn't sound good at all. It's also art+muscle+motion+tetris to watch a good team of piano movers get it down a slim flight of stairs. My spinnet is small so it's relatively easy to move. (I had it taken in and then out of a garden apartment window; that was the only real way in.) But even so, I would hire movers if you care about the thing. And yeah hernias. Stairs? Hire movers. Really. Unless you happen to be the size of a WWE wrestler or an NFL linebacker. (Those are the people that usually move mind, and they're all YOUNG and TALL and MUSCULAR. I'm not attracted to men, but I was just amazed watching these people move the piano, it's almost worth the $400.) Corners and stairs? Yeah, get pros.
That said, I often wonder, for my purposes, if a digital piano would be sufficient. These days, they sound wonderful, are very portable, have well-weighted and adjustble keys, and cost a fraction of a good piano plus maintenance. On the other side of the equation, there;s nothing like the sound of an acoustic piano, and it's a lovely piece of furniture. And, it is the piano i grew up with, a family heirloom of sorts. That said, upkeep can be expensive, especially if you move a lot like I do. (Or you can get an out of tune banger off CL, a few friends with wheeled pallets, and use'em up like disposables.)
But yeah. Piano. I like mine.
posted by not_on_display at 8:38 PM on December 12, 2019 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks for the insights and nudge over to the recent Ask, dunno how I missed that. You've all very much talked me out of buying an acoustic piano, thank you for saving me a world of annoyance.
What I really want is the portability of an electric piano, BUT not a million buttons to distract my kid, and NOT a spindly rickety X-stand. Is there any kind of electric piano that's housed in something sturdy and pleasing, and doesn't have any gimmick buttons? I hate how keyboards seem so flimsy perched up high on those folding stands (my kid will knock that down), and so gizmo-ey with all the beats and synth noises (my kid will prefer playing with those to the actual piano keys!) I want a nice boring classical instrument so that my child can only amuse himself with it by actually making music! Does that exist?
posted by nouvelle-personne at 8:41 PM on December 12, 2019 [1 favorite]
What I really want is the portability of an electric piano, BUT not a million buttons to distract my kid, and NOT a spindly rickety X-stand. Is there any kind of electric piano that's housed in something sturdy and pleasing, and doesn't have any gimmick buttons? I hate how keyboards seem so flimsy perched up high on those folding stands (my kid will knock that down), and so gizmo-ey with all the beats and synth noises (my kid will prefer playing with those to the actual piano keys!) I want a nice boring classical instrument so that my child can only amuse himself with it by actually making music! Does that exist?
posted by nouvelle-personne at 8:41 PM on December 12, 2019 [1 favorite]
I faced this question down a couple months ago when our kid wanted a piano for his birthday. Two things nudged me definitively toward electric piano: one time cost (no tuning or moving) and headphones. We still hear the tap, click of the keys but that’s all. Beginner learners, the feel (I’m told) is good/ better than expected. It was easy to move and a good price on eBay. It’s a Yamaha with millions of buttons but only because it was the best price (400euro, 5 years old - new, basically, rarely played with bench).
It doesn’t compare with an acoustic piano but it’s perfect for our purposes.
posted by From Bklyn at 10:05 PM on December 12, 2019 [1 favorite]
It doesn’t compare with an acoustic piano but it’s perfect for our purposes.
posted by From Bklyn at 10:05 PM on December 12, 2019 [1 favorite]
The iPad, or other tablet of your choice, has become the killer partner of the digital piano in recent years. Here is an example article talking about what is available (written for piano teachers but relevant for all performers and learners too). The ability to connect wirelessly to the piano via Bluetooth allows the piano UI to be kept simple and elegant. I have used SimplyPiano and it has taught me to site read over a few months, for example.
If you are craving a beautiful piece of furniture made from wood - then my advice would be to choose something other than an acoustic piano. You could even commission something to be made for you.
posted by rongorongo at 2:09 AM on December 13, 2019 [2 favorites]
If you are craving a beautiful piece of furniture made from wood - then my advice would be to choose something other than an acoustic piano. You could even commission something to be made for you.
posted by rongorongo at 2:09 AM on December 13, 2019 [2 favorites]
I was actually a piano mover as a young man. It’s definitely pro or go home time with anything larger than a spinet or anything involving even a few steps. Trust me. I’ve seen both pianos and people and buildings get badly hurt. Unless your friends with the van have moved a piano, you could be in for a world of hurt.
posted by spitbull at 3:48 AM on December 13, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 3:48 AM on December 13, 2019 [4 favorites]
Also you can buy professional grade folding stands for digital keyboards that are quite stable. Or buy a Yamaha digital console.
I’ve evaluated lots of digital pianos. I play keyboards in a band (as a second instrument to guitar) and am a music professor. In my view it’s Yamaha or Nord at the top.
posted by spitbull at 3:50 AM on December 13, 2019
I’ve evaluated lots of digital pianos. I play keyboards in a band (as a second instrument to guitar) and am a music professor. In my view it’s Yamaha or Nord at the top.
posted by spitbull at 3:50 AM on December 13, 2019
We have a used digital Clavinova that sounds pretty good & has a very sturdy base. I don't think it has tons of buttons. But it DOES have a headphone jack, which I wish our upright piano had. (There are only so many times I can handle listening to "O Christmas Tree".)
posted by belladonna at 5:07 AM on December 13, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by belladonna at 5:07 AM on December 13, 2019 [1 favorite]
Is there any kind of electric piano that's housed in something sturdy and pleasing, and doesn't have any gimmick buttons?
Plenty, depending on your definition of “gimmick buttons.”
Current top Yamaha model as an example, just because it was easy to find a link. I know they've been making similar models for decades, as have other manufacturers. They’ll have a few different piano sounds and an organ sound or two, but the point of these kind of digital keyboards is to emulate a piano and that’s about it.
I think the key is to search for “digital piano” rather than “electronic keyboard” or “synthesizer” or etc.
There are also plenty of keyboard stands besides the X-style, look for “table-style” or “Z-style.”
posted by soundguy99 at 5:15 AM on December 13, 2019 [2 favorites]
Plenty, depending on your definition of “gimmick buttons.”
Current top Yamaha model as an example, just because it was easy to find a link. I know they've been making similar models for decades, as have other manufacturers. They’ll have a few different piano sounds and an organ sound or two, but the point of these kind of digital keyboards is to emulate a piano and that’s about it.
I think the key is to search for “digital piano” rather than “electronic keyboard” or “synthesizer” or etc.
There are also plenty of keyboard stands besides the X-style, look for “table-style” or “Z-style.”
posted by soundguy99 at 5:15 AM on December 13, 2019 [2 favorites]
I have a Roland digital piano. I think it's a DP-990, but don't quote me on that. It feels nice to play, it doesn't need tuning, and I can close the cover so the keys and buttons aren't exposed. I like it, and you might, too.
posted by Ms Vegetable at 5:41 AM on December 13, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Ms Vegetable at 5:41 AM on December 13, 2019 [1 favorite]
electronic piano
The vocabulary you want to use here is "digital piano". "Electronic keyboards" are like those Casio jobs, with not-88, not-weighted keys, and the cheesy built in backing tracks. They are fine for what they are but they are not pianos.
electric piano
This is a distinct type of instrument, like a Fender Rhodes. It has an actual soundboard (made of steel) and strings, but then needs to run through an amplifier. Heavy 70's vibe to the sound. It does not emulate an acoustic piano sound; it is its own thing.
posted by thelonius at 7:31 AM on December 13, 2019 [4 favorites]
The vocabulary you want to use here is "digital piano". "Electronic keyboards" are like those Casio jobs, with not-88, not-weighted keys, and the cheesy built in backing tracks. They are fine for what they are but they are not pianos.
electric piano
This is a distinct type of instrument, like a Fender Rhodes. It has an actual soundboard (made of steel) and strings, but then needs to run through an amplifier. Heavy 70's vibe to the sound. It does not emulate an acoustic piano sound; it is its own thing.
posted by thelonius at 7:31 AM on December 13, 2019 [4 favorites]
If you buy an actual piano, hire movers. People can be hurt, very, very, easily. I left a piano behind because I didn't really have space, and chose not to spend to have it moved.
posted by theora55 at 11:50 AM on December 13, 2019
posted by theora55 at 11:50 AM on December 13, 2019
My first big adult purchase when I got out of college was not a car but a Kawai digital piano. It had some cool sounds/beats/features that were not obviously there (the navigation was kind of tricky), so for me it was just a great keyboard with two pedals and weighted keys. I moved it to at least 4 apartments, and it always fit in a minivan (and could be disassembled from the stand to move in a smaller car). I traded it with my mom for my childhood Kawai studio upright piano when I bought a house, and it’s perfect for her needs - never needs tuning, easy to turn on and use with headphones, etc. That said, I love having a real piano now (and my mom loves that I am paying for the tunings).
When I was piano shopping I considered Roland models (similar to the Kawai in that it didn’t have many extra buttons) and various Yamaha Clavinovas (most of these had a lot of buttons for sounds and stuff). I see them pop up on my local Nextdoor/Craigslist for varying used prices, but nobody seems as desperate to give them away as real pianos.
Good luck!
posted by Maarika at 12:01 PM on December 13, 2019 [1 favorite]
When I was piano shopping I considered Roland models (similar to the Kawai in that it didn’t have many extra buttons) and various Yamaha Clavinovas (most of these had a lot of buttons for sounds and stuff). I see them pop up on my local Nextdoor/Craigslist for varying used prices, but nobody seems as desperate to give them away as real pianos.
Good luck!
posted by Maarika at 12:01 PM on December 13, 2019 [1 favorite]
I bought a digital piano a few years ago and after trying quite a few I went with a Kawaii because it felt most realistic to my not very experienced fingers. It was also more expensive than I’d originally budgeted for. If you can try several out it’s definitely worth it - I was surprised how different they all felt, both in terms of action and also in terms of the material used for the keys (some felt more plasticky than others). Mine definitely sounds better, more realistic, through (good) headphones, which I use nearly all the time, rather than through its built-in speakers: they can’t match the reverberating sound of a real piano.
posted by fabius at 12:50 PM on December 13, 2019
posted by fabius at 12:50 PM on December 13, 2019
I've been down the electronic piano research rabbithole lately and the one that seems to be pretty universally recommended in the "entry-level but very good electronic instrument for people who want to study traditional piano" space is the Yamaha P-45, which has a full 88 keys, 'graded hammer action' (so the keys behave like a real piano) no goofy onboard backing rhythms, a minimum of buttons and only a handful of built-in voices (although it can also be used as a MIDI controller for external software and devices, which is also nice.) There's also a wooden stand available that's not as substantial or imposing as a piano cabinet, but definitely looks more permanent/sturdy than an X-stand. The piano runs about $500, and the stand is another $100 or so.
posted by usonian at 5:18 PM on February 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by usonian at 5:18 PM on February 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
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posted by jessamyn at 6:06 PM on December 12, 2019 [6 favorites]