Buying a Used Piano
November 18, 2019 8:32 AM Subscribe
What do I need to know before I try to buy a used piano on craigslist?
I want a piano, and there are many very affordable options on my local craigslist. Some of them are sold by one person who apparently buys and refinishes them, because he's got a bunch in a storage space and he includes delivery and tuning in the price.
What should I be looking for? Are there brands you can recommend or ones I should avoid? What else do I need to know? I'm just wanting something nice and reliable, not a fancy grand piano. I will be the only player in our household.
I want a piano, and there are many very affordable options on my local craigslist. Some of them are sold by one person who apparently buys and refinishes them, because he's got a bunch in a storage space and he includes delivery and tuning in the price.
What should I be looking for? Are there brands you can recommend or ones I should avoid? What else do I need to know? I'm just wanting something nice and reliable, not a fancy grand piano. I will be the only player in our household.
As a person who owns, has owned and has tried to get rid of a piano, know that you have lots of leverage here. These days it's hard for people to even give pianos away. You should be able to get something very nice for very little.
posted by lpsguy at 8:41 AM on November 18, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by lpsguy at 8:41 AM on November 18, 2019 [1 favorite]
Honestly, I see free pianos o Craigslist all the time, and a really awesome free piano every few months. You can set up a google alert for free piano on craigslist\free, start visiting to check them out, and take the best one that comes along. It will cost to have it moved and tuned.
posted by theora55 at 8:45 AM on November 18, 2019
posted by theora55 at 8:45 AM on November 18, 2019
In my city you can find decent uprights and even the occasional grand being given away for “free”, sometimes in quite decent shape, as long as you move it out (which can get pricey if stairs are involved or it’s a bigger instrument, and — as a former piano mover I just must add — don’t leave moving a piano to amateurs, I’m serious!)
Heirs inheriting estates want them gone, and the market is soft. Piano retailers have gone bankrupt at astounding rates in recent years. An executive for Yamaha musical instruments told me a few years ago that if it weren’t for East Asian immigrant families, there would be almost no market for new acoustic pianos in the US except the very small professional market.
Are you absolutely sure you want a heavy, cumbersome, maintenance-requiring acoustic instrument? The thing that’s killed the market is the quality of digital offerings, with weighted piano style actions and very decent samples available in a lightweight package for less than $1000. For most purposes (and among other things I play some keyboard professionally in rock bands and am a music prof, so I know from purposes) a digital piano is the answer. For a student musician it absolutely is.
If you want the real thing, look for only the top few brands — Yamaha and Kawai are always solid and widely used in institutions for that reason. I’d stick with those. I’d avoid Steinway, if you do happen across a cheaper one it almost certainly needs more expensive maintenance than you’re expecting.
Figure out if you want an upright or a grand, and drive a hard bargain. People are not beating down the doors for these. Lowball the offers to start.
Whether it makes sense to buy from a guy who is turning over the free and cheap detritus of a dying technology depends on his skill, integrity, and reputation. I’d say not.
posted by spitbull at 8:46 AM on November 18, 2019 [9 favorites]
Heirs inheriting estates want them gone, and the market is soft. Piano retailers have gone bankrupt at astounding rates in recent years. An executive for Yamaha musical instruments told me a few years ago that if it weren’t for East Asian immigrant families, there would be almost no market for new acoustic pianos in the US except the very small professional market.
Are you absolutely sure you want a heavy, cumbersome, maintenance-requiring acoustic instrument? The thing that’s killed the market is the quality of digital offerings, with weighted piano style actions and very decent samples available in a lightweight package for less than $1000. For most purposes (and among other things I play some keyboard professionally in rock bands and am a music prof, so I know from purposes) a digital piano is the answer. For a student musician it absolutely is.
If you want the real thing, look for only the top few brands — Yamaha and Kawai are always solid and widely used in institutions for that reason. I’d stick with those. I’d avoid Steinway, if you do happen across a cheaper one it almost certainly needs more expensive maintenance than you’re expecting.
Figure out if you want an upright or a grand, and drive a hard bargain. People are not beating down the doors for these. Lowball the offers to start.
Whether it makes sense to buy from a guy who is turning over the free and cheap detritus of a dying technology depends on his skill, integrity, and reputation. I’d say not.
posted by spitbull at 8:46 AM on November 18, 2019 [9 favorites]
If at all possible you should listen to them. They sound surprisingly different from each other, and you want it to make a sound that you like to hear. An actual piano player (as opposed to the non-playing parent of a couple of previously-aspiring players, as I am) would probably like to sit and play it themselves, and no doubt have something to say about how they feel as well as how they sound. I asked the piano shop guy to play a bunch of different models, and picked the sweet spot between sounds-good and not-too-expensive. FWIW, we bought a Yahama U1, which is regarded as a popular & reliable model.
Obviously, "lowest price" does not always equate to "best value".
posted by rd45 at 8:53 AM on November 18, 2019 [1 favorite]
Obviously, "lowest price" does not always equate to "best value".
posted by rd45 at 8:53 AM on November 18, 2019 [1 favorite]
I would only buy from a reputable dealer or after having a trusted technician inspect it. Much like buying a used car.
posted by likedoomsday at 9:12 AM on November 18, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by likedoomsday at 9:12 AM on November 18, 2019 [1 favorite]
Definitely go play it, to get a sense of the action of the keys as well as what condition it’s in—are there obvious weather marks, from damp or sun? Mold specks anywhere besides mayyyybe the feet are obviously a no go, even if it’s free.
Any free or cheap craigslist piano is going to need to be tuned twice in the first 6 months of being in your home, from obviously being out of tune when you buy/move it, and then to account for the new environment.
Pay to have it moved, unless you and your friends are pros. Pianos are awkward as hell, obviously.
Basically, a cheap piano on CL costs more than the sticker price, which is an argument for paying no more than $30-50 (but free is best! and doesn’t usually mean anything except that the owner wants it out asap)
posted by zinful at 9:28 AM on November 18, 2019
Any free or cheap craigslist piano is going to need to be tuned twice in the first 6 months of being in your home, from obviously being out of tune when you buy/move it, and then to account for the new environment.
Pay to have it moved, unless you and your friends are pros. Pianos are awkward as hell, obviously.
Basically, a cheap piano on CL costs more than the sticker price, which is an argument for paying no more than $30-50 (but free is best! and doesn’t usually mean anything except that the owner wants it out asap)
posted by zinful at 9:28 AM on November 18, 2019
I would mostly worry about condition rather than brand or anything like that. There are a lot of things you can check for visually - is the pin block loose, how deeply grooved are the hammers, stuff like that. I won't go into it all but there are lots of YouTube "piano inspection" kinds of videos, though I can't recommend any specific ones. If you're buying a reconditioned piano from a professional most of this should be taken care of (I would hope). Basically, if you trust the person selling you the piano and he's an expert, tell him your price range and ask what he recommends; if you don't trust him, get a free/super-cheap piano and then pay someone to fix it up.
I'm another one, though, who's gone digital. Digital pianos take up less space and are vastly easier to move, they sound very good (at least as good as a lower-end/less well-maintained acoustic piano), play very well, and are basically maintenance-free, whereas an acoustic piano needs at minimum a yearly tuning.
posted by mskyle at 10:27 AM on November 18, 2019 [2 favorites]
I'm another one, though, who's gone digital. Digital pianos take up less space and are vastly easier to move, they sound very good (at least as good as a lower-end/less well-maintained acoustic piano), play very well, and are basically maintenance-free, whereas an acoustic piano needs at minimum a yearly tuning.
posted by mskyle at 10:27 AM on November 18, 2019 [2 favorites]
The book The Piano Book: Buying & Owning a New or Used Piano can give you some guidance.
posted by ShooBoo at 10:47 AM on November 18, 2019
posted by ShooBoo at 10:47 AM on November 18, 2019
Mechanical piano prices are certainly diving.
Are you sure you want to sign up for a half ton machine that needs a lot of upkeep?
My kid's digital piano cost only a few hundred bucks from Costco, feels and sounds like a grand piano (or an organ, a harpsichord, dozens of other things), never needs tuning, has a volume control, supports headphones, and can be carried around under one arm. You can also plug it into a computer and use those 88 weighted keys to control music software.
Or just turn it on and play and it's as simple as a real piano.
posted by w0mbat at 11:58 AM on November 18, 2019
Are you sure you want to sign up for a half ton machine that needs a lot of upkeep?
My kid's digital piano cost only a few hundred bucks from Costco, feels and sounds like a grand piano (or an organ, a harpsichord, dozens of other things), never needs tuning, has a volume control, supports headphones, and can be carried around under one arm. You can also plug it into a computer and use those 88 weighted keys to control music software.
Or just turn it on and play and it's as simple as a real piano.
posted by w0mbat at 11:58 AM on November 18, 2019
Response by poster: Just to head this off - I do already have an electronic piano (and a portable Yamaha keyboard as well). I'm in what I strongly believe will be my forever house, so I don't have to worry about moving it in my lifetime. I grew up playing a real piano, have gotten back into it over the past year, and I really want the real thing.
posted by something something at 12:29 PM on November 18, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by something something at 12:29 PM on November 18, 2019 [4 favorites]
We got ours free, delivered (with manpower provided) even. It was a bit of a sweetheart deal insofar as it was from a friend of the family's mother's estate but I'd honestly keep an eye out for something as near to free/"I'll come get it" as you can get. Be very patient and have strong friends and strong boards and dollys and ropes/straps and moving blankets and beer for the helpers a truck/van on standby so you can sprint to get the one you want before someone else does the same.
If it's sat sitting for a long time you may need to expect that the tuning person you hire to come tune it will need to do a double tune (I forget the exact name) which is essentially him/her going through the tuning process twice because by the time the first tuning is done it will be out of tune on the other end. Then, about a year later, you'll need another tuning most likely. That's sooner than normally expected but if they sit for a long time that's normal I think. I think we paid about $200 for the first one and $100 for subsequent tunings but call around and see what the market is in your area.
Good luck.
posted by RolandOfEld at 1:51 PM on November 18, 2019
If it's sat sitting for a long time you may need to expect that the tuning person you hire to come tune it will need to do a double tune (I forget the exact name) which is essentially him/her going through the tuning process twice because by the time the first tuning is done it will be out of tune on the other end. Then, about a year later, you'll need another tuning most likely. That's sooner than normally expected but if they sit for a long time that's normal I think. I think we paid about $200 for the first one and $100 for subsequent tunings but call around and see what the market is in your area.
Good luck.
posted by RolandOfEld at 1:51 PM on November 18, 2019
We got a solid, servicable, nonfancy upright piano this way -- free! -- and it's been so great.
Agreeing that you may need to do the "double tune" thing -- my guy explained it as something like "it's so out of tune that if I try to tighten everything up at once I could break something."
I got good advice beforehand: "piano movers know what they're doing" and that turned out to be true. It was worth spending a few dollars to hire them because they were in/out zip zip on both ends.
posted by BlahLaLa at 2:41 PM on November 18, 2019
Agreeing that you may need to do the "double tune" thing -- my guy explained it as something like "it's so out of tune that if I try to tighten everything up at once I could break something."
I got good advice beforehand: "piano movers know what they're doing" and that turned out to be true. It was worth spending a few dollars to hire them because they were in/out zip zip on both ends.
posted by BlahLaLa at 2:41 PM on November 18, 2019
If you have an opportunity, visit a piano shop that has a lot of models and play around. You don't have to buy one but it will give you a better indication of what you like in terms of playability and sound. If you discover that there are certain brands you just haaaattte, then you know not to even bother with the listings that have those pianos.
posted by acidnova at 3:31 PM on November 18, 2019
posted by acidnova at 3:31 PM on November 18, 2019
Yamaha and Kawai [...] I’d stick with those. I’d avoid Steinway
To each their own, but I'd pick a Steinway over a Yamaha or Kawai any day, no matter what age. Steinways have always been built to a high standard of quality. The German Bs: Bechstein, Bösendorfer and Blüthner are also a good shout.
I'm guessing you'll be looking for an upright piano? An upright will often have a nicer sound than a baby grand. Here's a good primer on used upright pianos including things like leg room and types of book holder. (The site is UK based, so different brands may be more common where you are.) That site also has a lot of good general piano advice.
Generally a piano sounds better the longer the strings are; that's why a concert grand is at least 9 or 10 feet long. So in an upright, the taller the soundbox, the richer (and louder) the sound it will make. Once it gets quite tall, it's hard to place them anywhere other than against a wall, so make sure you have wall space that's not near a radiator or heater, and ideally not too close to a window either. Pianos respond to temperature and humidity, so tune it in the spring and autumn when the weather changes.
Some companies make shorter uprights for music teachers and choir conductors so the player can see over the soundbox while seated. Sometimes these are surprisingly nicely made; but often the sound isn't great.
And that's the thing about buying a piano: ideally you want one that's comfortable to sit at, feels nice to play and sounds pleasant to you. It's hard to judge these qualities if you haven't seen and played them. If you contacted that craigslist vendor who sells a lot of pianos, perhaps you could make an appointment to go to his warehouse/workshop to decide on an instrument?
posted by Pallas Athena at 4:21 PM on November 18, 2019
To each their own, but I'd pick a Steinway over a Yamaha or Kawai any day, no matter what age. Steinways have always been built to a high standard of quality. The German Bs: Bechstein, Bösendorfer and Blüthner are also a good shout.
I'm guessing you'll be looking for an upright piano? An upright will often have a nicer sound than a baby grand. Here's a good primer on used upright pianos including things like leg room and types of book holder. (The site is UK based, so different brands may be more common where you are.) That site also has a lot of good general piano advice.
Generally a piano sounds better the longer the strings are; that's why a concert grand is at least 9 or 10 feet long. So in an upright, the taller the soundbox, the richer (and louder) the sound it will make. Once it gets quite tall, it's hard to place them anywhere other than against a wall, so make sure you have wall space that's not near a radiator or heater, and ideally not too close to a window either. Pianos respond to temperature and humidity, so tune it in the spring and autumn when the weather changes.
Some companies make shorter uprights for music teachers and choir conductors so the player can see over the soundbox while seated. Sometimes these are surprisingly nicely made; but often the sound isn't great.
And that's the thing about buying a piano: ideally you want one that's comfortable to sit at, feels nice to play and sounds pleasant to you. It's hard to judge these qualities if you haven't seen and played them. If you contacted that craigslist vendor who sells a lot of pianos, perhaps you could make an appointment to go to his warehouse/workshop to decide on an instrument?
posted by Pallas Athena at 4:21 PM on November 18, 2019
Generally a piano sounds better the longer the strings are
Sort of. It's more to do with the size of the resonating chamber. The size of the body of the piano affects the resonance and allows for much richer sound. But the larger body also means longer strings.
But yes, with all other things being equal, a taller upright will generate better sound than the short one.
posted by acidnova at 4:43 PM on November 18, 2019
Sort of. It's more to do with the size of the resonating chamber. The size of the body of the piano affects the resonance and allows for much richer sound. But the larger body also means longer strings.
But yes, with all other things being equal, a taller upright will generate better sound than the short one.
posted by acidnova at 4:43 PM on November 18, 2019
You are already a pianist? 100% try the pianos. Agree you should make an appointment with the piano refinisher to go see their warehouse and try out their pianos. Bring a variety of sheet music (if you don't have much memorized) so you can try the pianos productively. Don't be pressured into buying a piano on the spot - if you don't like their pianos, no need to commit. Say you need to think about it, which is totally reasonable for such a large piece of furniture, even if it doesn't cost much, because once it goes into your house, getting it back out will be difficult. Can you also look up reviews of this person in advance?
For other people offering free or cheap pianos on an individual (rather than warehouse) basis, same thing - make appointment, bring music, try piano, see if you like it. Having a piano technician check out the piano can be helpful, so they can tell you about things like cracked sound boards, disintegrating elbows, etc. - mainly so you have some confidence the instrument is likely to last awhile and be worth the effort of bringing into your home. Though when my partner and I temporarily moved to the other coast, we picked up a spinet from Craigslist that we didn't get checked out, but took a chance on anyway. The piano was "free" but cost something like $500 to move and tune. (And worth it, to us - we ended up growing very fond of the instrument and found it a new home with a friend before we left. But we may be outliers - having anytime access to an acoustic is something we value, so I'm very sympathetic to your update.)
I also stand by my previous advice that trying out pianos is one of the best parts of piano buying, if you are inclined to visit piano stores. In fact, taking delivery and tuning costs into account (I would get some quotes, and hire piano mover specialists, not friends/family or general movers) you might revisit your budget expectations and find that buying a piano from a professional, rather than an unknown on Craigslist, would give you more confidence that the piano will be worth the time and effort to make a place for it in your home and your life. Good luck.
posted by cdefgfeadgagfe at 6:36 PM on November 18, 2019
For other people offering free or cheap pianos on an individual (rather than warehouse) basis, same thing - make appointment, bring music, try piano, see if you like it. Having a piano technician check out the piano can be helpful, so they can tell you about things like cracked sound boards, disintegrating elbows, etc. - mainly so you have some confidence the instrument is likely to last awhile and be worth the effort of bringing into your home. Though when my partner and I temporarily moved to the other coast, we picked up a spinet from Craigslist that we didn't get checked out, but took a chance on anyway. The piano was "free" but cost something like $500 to move and tune. (And worth it, to us - we ended up growing very fond of the instrument and found it a new home with a friend before we left. But we may be outliers - having anytime access to an acoustic is something we value, so I'm very sympathetic to your update.)
I also stand by my previous advice that trying out pianos is one of the best parts of piano buying, if you are inclined to visit piano stores. In fact, taking delivery and tuning costs into account (I would get some quotes, and hire piano mover specialists, not friends/family or general movers) you might revisit your budget expectations and find that buying a piano from a professional, rather than an unknown on Craigslist, would give you more confidence that the piano will be worth the time and effort to make a place for it in your home and your life. Good luck.
posted by cdefgfeadgagfe at 6:36 PM on November 18, 2019
Asian immigrant family here, and agree with that prior statement that with this demographic there would be no market (not for lessons).
We bought from a reputable used piano dealer called Rick Jones Piano in Beltsville Maryland - they even deliver nationwide (at a cost though).
They deal primarily in Yamaha and Kawai uprights, and also Steinways. I understand a lot of their inventory comes from Japan. We got an excellent Kawai upright that has served the kids very well. The youngest is really becoming quite an accomplished player.
One neat thing about Rick Jones is that you can ‘trade up’ the original value you paid, to get something nicer. We likely won’t need to go to a baby grand (no space) but it is a nice option.
We tried the CL route; what a waste of time that was, seeing a ton of junk that was poorly-maintained.
posted by scooterdog at 7:07 PM on November 18, 2019 [2 favorites]
We bought from a reputable used piano dealer called Rick Jones Piano in Beltsville Maryland - they even deliver nationwide (at a cost though).
They deal primarily in Yamaha and Kawai uprights, and also Steinways. I understand a lot of their inventory comes from Japan. We got an excellent Kawai upright that has served the kids very well. The youngest is really becoming quite an accomplished player.
One neat thing about Rick Jones is that you can ‘trade up’ the original value you paid, to get something nicer. We likely won’t need to go to a baby grand (no space) but it is a nice option.
We tried the CL route; what a waste of time that was, seeing a ton of junk that was poorly-maintained.
posted by scooterdog at 7:07 PM on November 18, 2019 [2 favorites]
A few years back I found a charming vintage Krakauer baby grand piano for free on Craigslist.
In my enthusiasm for it I immediately called a piano mover to get it. He gave me great advice — hire a piano technician to give it a look first — and added that he had many times retrieved CL pianos for folks only to haul them to the dump a week later.
I did as he suggested, paying a local piano technician $50 to check it out (found him via Google). The piano checked out, I had it delivered, and my kids have been playing it ever sense.
posted by Toecutter at 8:03 PM on November 18, 2019 [2 favorites]
In my enthusiasm for it I immediately called a piano mover to get it. He gave me great advice — hire a piano technician to give it a look first — and added that he had many times retrieved CL pianos for folks only to haul them to the dump a week later.
I did as he suggested, paying a local piano technician $50 to check it out (found him via Google). The piano checked out, I had it delivered, and my kids have been playing it ever sense.
posted by Toecutter at 8:03 PM on November 18, 2019 [2 favorites]
The thing about Steinway is people don’t give away the good ones. And they think the bad ones are worth more money because of the name. And they are expensive to service and need a lot of it. I love Steinways. I’m leery of “free” ones. Or even cheap ones.
Yamaha are the best built and most durable for most purposes. And I’ve seen multiple brands dropped hard.
I was seriously a piano mover for several years. Do not show up with strong friends and dollies if you have never moved a piano, at least for anything larger than a spinet or involving stairs. Trust me. People get hurt moving pianos, and buildings get hurt all the time. There are specific techniques to doing it safely. It is not a brute force deal.
posted by spitbull at 3:24 AM on November 19, 2019 [1 favorite]
Yamaha are the best built and most durable for most purposes. And I’ve seen multiple brands dropped hard.
I was seriously a piano mover for several years. Do not show up with strong friends and dollies if you have never moved a piano, at least for anything larger than a spinet or involving stairs. Trust me. People get hurt moving pianos, and buildings get hurt all the time. There are specific techniques to doing it safely. It is not a brute force deal.
posted by spitbull at 3:24 AM on November 19, 2019 [1 favorite]
Do not show up with strong friends and dollies if you have never moved a piano
Ooh yea, this. I said above to use strong friends but that was only for the simplest of house to house moves, no stairs, etc. I've done it a few times in that setting and it's tolerable with anything approaching basic/above average furniture moving skills/tools but anything beyond the simplest of scenarios would be a non starter for sure.
I even helped move a baby grand that was strapped to a board/dolly/lever thing that's made for the purpose and even moving it a few feet, with 5 men all working slowly and in sync... it was scary as hell.
posted by RolandOfEld at 5:36 AM on November 19, 2019
Ooh yea, this. I said above to use strong friends but that was only for the simplest of house to house moves, no stairs, etc. I've done it a few times in that setting and it's tolerable with anything approaching basic/above average furniture moving skills/tools but anything beyond the simplest of scenarios would be a non starter for sure.
I even helped move a baby grand that was strapped to a board/dolly/lever thing that's made for the purpose and even moving it a few feet, with 5 men all working slowly and in sync... it was scary as hell.
posted by RolandOfEld at 5:36 AM on November 19, 2019
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posted by postel's law at 8:39 AM on November 18, 2019 [4 favorites]