Tips for finding a way forward in a complicated romantic entanglement
December 4, 2019 1:22 PM Subscribe
Earlier this year, my (32M) eight-year relationship collapsed when I fell in love with someone else (31F) who subsequently did not want to pursue things further. I feel guilty, rudderless, and bereft and want to try and figure out a way forward.
Sorry for the enormous wall of text, I don't know how much of this is relevant but to me it all feels important.
By the spring of this year I had been in what I felt was a generally successful relationship with X (41F) for eight years. Much of it had been long-distance, though we did live together for several years and tried to spend as much time together as we could. The last long-distance stretch was three years, but it was due to end at the end of this summer--we'd spend the summer together and she'd return with me and we'd move in together for good. I'd always felt nervous about this prospect: I loved her but I felt like once this happened, we would have to get married and that would be it for the rest of my life (I had had very little prior relationship experience). We were also drifting apart in other ways: we were in the same line of work and I'd recently become pretty successful in it while she had not, and we had moved together to a new city (with the understanding that she'd move permanently once the thing she was doing abroad was up) where, in her absence, I found a new hobby that rapidly became all-consuming. (The age difference had never been a factor in the past and neither of us wanted to have children.) In retrospect it's obvious to me that I had mostly checked out of the relationship by that point, but I didn't really want to leave. Things weren't *bad* per se and it felt like leaving would both hurt her too much and demolish everything we had built and planned. I was hoping that once we lived together again it would get easier.
In May, a month before I was flying to join X, I started hanging out in a friendly way with Y (31F), whom I'd met through the hobby I mentioned above. She was also in a long-distance relationship and the way she talked about it, it sounded like it was pretty troubled (though this may have been wishful thinking on my part)--they'd already broken up for a while before and had gotten back together, but it didn't seem like the underlying issues were fixed. I found myself incredibly physically and intellectually attracted to her, though there were aspects of her personality--what felt like a mean, angry, spiteful streak--that gave me pause. I knew it was a bad idea to spend as much time together as we did, but I told myself that as long as we didn't actually kiss or sleep together it wasn't really cheating (I wasn't really familiar with the concept of an emotional affair at that point). At one point, after a day we spent alone together on a beach, we admitted that we had feelings for each other, but I said that I didn't want to destroy both of our existing relationships and she agreed. This didn't help--we still spent huge amounts of time together and my feelings only grew stronger. We agreed we'd go no contact for a month after I left. Long story short, this worked better for her than for me. I was unable to shed my feelings and my relationship with X rapidly deteriorated after I confessed the whole thing, though she was understanding and was willing to forgive me if I was sincere. In July I sent Y an agonizing email to which she didn't respond, which led to two weeks of pure agony in which I almost came to believe I had made the whole thing up; when X gave me an ultimatum to break things off with one of us, I called Y and said I wanted to be with her, and she said she was having a good relationship moment with her partner and was unwilling to leave him. Breaking things off didn't help either. By the time X and I were due to go back from abroad together, I had come to realize that having Y in my life in *any* capacity was more important to me at that moment than my relationship with X, and that regardless of what this meant, I was being a very shitty partner to someone who deserved better. We broke up at the end of August.
I got what I deserved. For a brief moment it felt like things with Y were possible again: we got drunk together two nights in a row and she started making out with me outside the bar. But the next time we were due to meet, she cancelled. When, a week later, I called her again, I said I felt like I was getting mixed signals, she said she still didn't want to leave her partner (I didn't ever ask for this and would have been fine being a side-piece or whatever, and they were in a quasi-open relationship) and that I should move on. She phrased the whole thing as if it was my fault for asking too much of her. I tried, though it was really hard because we keep seeing each other at hobby-related things and no contact was not a realistic possibility. In early October after a happy hour, she cornered me and started making out with me again, saying she'd missed me; we continued to make out for an hour and a half and the next day she came over for dinner. I kept saying that I didn't expect her to leave her partner and that I'd be fine with whatever she wanted to do, but she seemed skeptical. After another two weeks in which she barely spoke to me at all (her partner was visiting) she met me and broke things off again, a little more kindly this time ("you deserve someone who can love you the way you want to be loved").
Since then I've been struggling really hard to recover and move on. I still see Y at events and we're on decent terms, but when I stopped initiating conversations with her she hasn't made any effort to start things back up. I feel like I was not well cared for by her and was treated unkindly (maybe not more so than I treated my own partner) and the whole thing brought me a lot of pain, but I'm still in love with Y. I feel like I'll never meet anyone I feel this way about. I keep hoping that six months from now things in our lives will change enough that we can try again. Intellectually I know that these things are probably not true, but I don't know how to internalize it emotionally. Online dating is stressful and unsatisfying compared to the intense connection we had. There aren't a lot of people who share our mutual hobby and it's hard to imagine being with someone who doesn't, let alone someone I also share literary and artistic interests with to the same extent.
How do I move on? Is there any hope that continuing to carry the torch will result in a positive outcome for me? Is Y just *like that* as a person or is it possible that she'd be nicer if she wasn't caught between two relationships like she was? How can I stop obsessing over my memories of our "relationship"? Also, I've been mostly out of contact with X since our breakup, though I do want to be friends eventually--should I let her pick a moment to catch up or should I make the first move?
Sorry for the enormous wall of text, I don't know how much of this is relevant but to me it all feels important.
By the spring of this year I had been in what I felt was a generally successful relationship with X (41F) for eight years. Much of it had been long-distance, though we did live together for several years and tried to spend as much time together as we could. The last long-distance stretch was three years, but it was due to end at the end of this summer--we'd spend the summer together and she'd return with me and we'd move in together for good. I'd always felt nervous about this prospect: I loved her but I felt like once this happened, we would have to get married and that would be it for the rest of my life (I had had very little prior relationship experience). We were also drifting apart in other ways: we were in the same line of work and I'd recently become pretty successful in it while she had not, and we had moved together to a new city (with the understanding that she'd move permanently once the thing she was doing abroad was up) where, in her absence, I found a new hobby that rapidly became all-consuming. (The age difference had never been a factor in the past and neither of us wanted to have children.) In retrospect it's obvious to me that I had mostly checked out of the relationship by that point, but I didn't really want to leave. Things weren't *bad* per se and it felt like leaving would both hurt her too much and demolish everything we had built and planned. I was hoping that once we lived together again it would get easier.
In May, a month before I was flying to join X, I started hanging out in a friendly way with Y (31F), whom I'd met through the hobby I mentioned above. She was also in a long-distance relationship and the way she talked about it, it sounded like it was pretty troubled (though this may have been wishful thinking on my part)--they'd already broken up for a while before and had gotten back together, but it didn't seem like the underlying issues were fixed. I found myself incredibly physically and intellectually attracted to her, though there were aspects of her personality--what felt like a mean, angry, spiteful streak--that gave me pause. I knew it was a bad idea to spend as much time together as we did, but I told myself that as long as we didn't actually kiss or sleep together it wasn't really cheating (I wasn't really familiar with the concept of an emotional affair at that point). At one point, after a day we spent alone together on a beach, we admitted that we had feelings for each other, but I said that I didn't want to destroy both of our existing relationships and she agreed. This didn't help--we still spent huge amounts of time together and my feelings only grew stronger. We agreed we'd go no contact for a month after I left. Long story short, this worked better for her than for me. I was unable to shed my feelings and my relationship with X rapidly deteriorated after I confessed the whole thing, though she was understanding and was willing to forgive me if I was sincere. In July I sent Y an agonizing email to which she didn't respond, which led to two weeks of pure agony in which I almost came to believe I had made the whole thing up; when X gave me an ultimatum to break things off with one of us, I called Y and said I wanted to be with her, and she said she was having a good relationship moment with her partner and was unwilling to leave him. Breaking things off didn't help either. By the time X and I were due to go back from abroad together, I had come to realize that having Y in my life in *any* capacity was more important to me at that moment than my relationship with X, and that regardless of what this meant, I was being a very shitty partner to someone who deserved better. We broke up at the end of August.
I got what I deserved. For a brief moment it felt like things with Y were possible again: we got drunk together two nights in a row and she started making out with me outside the bar. But the next time we were due to meet, she cancelled. When, a week later, I called her again, I said I felt like I was getting mixed signals, she said she still didn't want to leave her partner (I didn't ever ask for this and would have been fine being a side-piece or whatever, and they were in a quasi-open relationship) and that I should move on. She phrased the whole thing as if it was my fault for asking too much of her. I tried, though it was really hard because we keep seeing each other at hobby-related things and no contact was not a realistic possibility. In early October after a happy hour, she cornered me and started making out with me again, saying she'd missed me; we continued to make out for an hour and a half and the next day she came over for dinner. I kept saying that I didn't expect her to leave her partner and that I'd be fine with whatever she wanted to do, but she seemed skeptical. After another two weeks in which she barely spoke to me at all (her partner was visiting) she met me and broke things off again, a little more kindly this time ("you deserve someone who can love you the way you want to be loved").
Since then I've been struggling really hard to recover and move on. I still see Y at events and we're on decent terms, but when I stopped initiating conversations with her she hasn't made any effort to start things back up. I feel like I was not well cared for by her and was treated unkindly (maybe not more so than I treated my own partner) and the whole thing brought me a lot of pain, but I'm still in love with Y. I feel like I'll never meet anyone I feel this way about. I keep hoping that six months from now things in our lives will change enough that we can try again. Intellectually I know that these things are probably not true, but I don't know how to internalize it emotionally. Online dating is stressful and unsatisfying compared to the intense connection we had. There aren't a lot of people who share our mutual hobby and it's hard to imagine being with someone who doesn't, let alone someone I also share literary and artistic interests with to the same extent.
How do I move on? Is there any hope that continuing to carry the torch will result in a positive outcome for me? Is Y just *like that* as a person or is it possible that she'd be nicer if she wasn't caught between two relationships like she was? How can I stop obsessing over my memories of our "relationship"? Also, I've been mostly out of contact with X since our breakup, though I do want to be friends eventually--should I let her pick a moment to catch up or should I make the first move?
1) No, this doesn't get better.
2) She's not going to turn down your attention, but doesn't want more than that.
3) Look in the mirror and ask yourself how you feel about being physical with someone who has to be intoxicated to want to be physical with you.
4) See (3).
posted by ftm at 1:44 PM on December 4, 2019 [8 favorites]
2) She's not going to turn down your attention, but doesn't want more than that.
3) Look in the mirror and ask yourself how you feel about being physical with someone who has to be intoxicated to want to be physical with you.
4) See (3).
posted by ftm at 1:44 PM on December 4, 2019 [8 favorites]
There is no romantic entanglement! She isn't seriously interested in you and she knows that even though you are begging for her scraps you really want a serious relationship. The reason you find this so thrilling and addictive is because you occasionally get rewarded with fleeting moments of her affection (seemingly only when she's drunk). You did the right thing in breaking up with your girlfriend and you will probably eventually meet someone else. Your brain is so starved for attention from this unattainable woman that it's telling you weird lies like "I will never feel this way about anyone else."
Stop brooding over the way Y treated you and how she could have been "nicer." You really should take a good long break from being around her. And for the love of god, with all this going on, leave your ex girlfriend alone.
posted by cakelite at 1:55 PM on December 4, 2019 [35 favorites]
Stop brooding over the way Y treated you and how she could have been "nicer." You really should take a good long break from being around her. And for the love of god, with all this going on, leave your ex girlfriend alone.
posted by cakelite at 1:55 PM on December 4, 2019 [35 favorites]
I'm so sorry. This really REALLY sucks. However: Y is never going to change her mind about you. She's had a lot of opportunities, and she hasn't done it. (I have to say that I also suspect her relationship with her partner isn't as "quasi-open" as she may have led you to believe.)
It's really hard to recover from something like this but it WILL happen. It's like a wound: You need to leave it alone to heal and give it time. Having said that, I think you'd be better off avoiding events where you know she will be and truly go no contact for a while (which also sucks, I know). Stop talking to her, unfollow her on all social media, just weed her out of your daily life in every way. I have found that throwing yourself into something else is the best way to get over someone -- your work, training for a marathon, learning to bake bread, whatever as long as it either physically really tires you out or truly requires your full attention. It's a cliche because it works.
You will feel this way about someone else again, I promise. (And even if you don't, you will STOP feeling so crappy about THIS person eventually regardless.) But please please don't contact your ex-girlfriend. She'll pop up if she feels like but otherwise you need to let her do her thing in peace.
Good luck. I know this is incredibly tough but a lot of people have gone through similar and we've all come out the other side. You will, too.
posted by Countess Sandwich at 2:09 PM on December 4, 2019 [4 favorites]
It's really hard to recover from something like this but it WILL happen. It's like a wound: You need to leave it alone to heal and give it time. Having said that, I think you'd be better off avoiding events where you know she will be and truly go no contact for a while (which also sucks, I know). Stop talking to her, unfollow her on all social media, just weed her out of your daily life in every way. I have found that throwing yourself into something else is the best way to get over someone -- your work, training for a marathon, learning to bake bread, whatever as long as it either physically really tires you out or truly requires your full attention. It's a cliche because it works.
You will feel this way about someone else again, I promise. (And even if you don't, you will STOP feeling so crappy about THIS person eventually regardless.) But please please don't contact your ex-girlfriend. She'll pop up if she feels like but otherwise you need to let her do her thing in peace.
Good luck. I know this is incredibly tough but a lot of people have gone through similar and we've all come out the other side. You will, too.
posted by Countess Sandwich at 2:09 PM on December 4, 2019 [4 favorites]
Oof, I hope MeFi won't be too hard on you. Sometimes the ends of relationships are messy, and we make choices that in hindsight we ought not to have. You didn't do it perfect, but few people do, and you're not some kind of monster.
So, previous answerers are right that there's no relationship here with this new person, and no reason whatsoever to be involved with your ex in any way. But that leaves you feeling, as you say, "rudderless" -- it feels like you ought to be doing a thing and moving a direction, right?
My advice would be to make your focus dealing with your emotions directly: your bereftness and your guilt. Really make it a project! Get some notebooks and stickies and work through it like it's a postmortem on a work project.
Start working through the guilt first, because that's something a little more concrete. What specific actions do you feel guilt about, and how are you going to turn that guilt into a more robust internal self? You have to be careful not to get bogged down in beating yourself up, here, but it's healthy to really sit with yourself and say, wow, that's a shitty thing I did. Why did I do that? No, why did I really do that? And how do I never do it again?
Then, you can move to "bereft." What did you lose, really take in the amount of your loss. You lost people, but also probably plans, maybe lost some of your regard for yourself, maybe you lost some future you were unconsciously counting on. Probably got your pride bruised a fair bit, too. Mourn it! Eat some ice cream.
By the end of this, I would wager the worst of your crush hangover will have worn off. You'll have a better sense of who you are and where you're at. And you'll probably still be fairly grumpy, and maybe not ready to dive into online dating or anything, but you know. You'll have your head on straight and you might be ready to get out of your head and back into your life.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:12 PM on December 4, 2019 [14 favorites]
So, previous answerers are right that there's no relationship here with this new person, and no reason whatsoever to be involved with your ex in any way. But that leaves you feeling, as you say, "rudderless" -- it feels like you ought to be doing a thing and moving a direction, right?
My advice would be to make your focus dealing with your emotions directly: your bereftness and your guilt. Really make it a project! Get some notebooks and stickies and work through it like it's a postmortem on a work project.
Start working through the guilt first, because that's something a little more concrete. What specific actions do you feel guilt about, and how are you going to turn that guilt into a more robust internal self? You have to be careful not to get bogged down in beating yourself up, here, but it's healthy to really sit with yourself and say, wow, that's a shitty thing I did. Why did I do that? No, why did I really do that? And how do I never do it again?
Then, you can move to "bereft." What did you lose, really take in the amount of your loss. You lost people, but also probably plans, maybe lost some of your regard for yourself, maybe you lost some future you were unconsciously counting on. Probably got your pride bruised a fair bit, too. Mourn it! Eat some ice cream.
By the end of this, I would wager the worst of your crush hangover will have worn off. You'll have a better sense of who you are and where you're at. And you'll probably still be fairly grumpy, and maybe not ready to dive into online dating or anything, but you know. You'll have your head on straight and you might be ready to get out of your head and back into your life.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:12 PM on December 4, 2019 [14 favorites]
How do I move on?
Quit feeding the intensity with Y by spending less time (for now) with her/the hobby group, don't contact her, don't get drunk with her, etc. That, along with some time and maybe some journaling will help you get through.
Is there any hope that continuing to carry the torch will result in a positive outcome for me?
Not really, no.
Is Y just *like that* as a person or is it possible that she'd be nicer if she wasn't caught between two relationships like she was?
This isn't about Y needing to be "nicer". Y doesn't want what you want. She's not caught between two relationships. When you were caught, you chose her. She's told you she's chosen her other relationship (and I would doubt she thinks of you as a relationship). She is attracted to you AND she does not want to be with you in any serious/sober way.
How can I stop obsessing over my memories of our "relationship"?
If you're ruminating too much, do something active &/or mindless like taking a walk, doing a load of laundry, or watching a movie. Cut back on the shared hobby. It's easy to think you're in love with someone you've never done the work of a relationship with--it's all sexy, chemistry, connection, & fun at this point. You might have even felt this way about X 8 years ago.
Also, I've been mostly out of contact with X since our breakup, though I do want to be friends eventually--should I let her pick a moment to catch up or should I make the first move?
I personally am highly suspicious of "friends with exes" because it's hard to move backwards in intimacy and why would you want to? Friendly if we bump into each other or an "I saw this meme and thought of you" email in like 6 months or a year from now maybe...but your behavior as described here was pretty crummy. Do not contact. If you contact her anyway, say something like "I'm sorry for the way I was at the end. If you want to talk or try to be on friendly terms, I'm up for that." I think the policy is that if making amends would actually be harmful for the other person, you don't do it. So if trying to be friends is about your anguish or guilt, now's not the time. Process those feelings on your own instead.
posted by kochenta at 2:22 PM on December 4, 2019 [12 favorites]
Quit feeding the intensity with Y by spending less time (for now) with her/the hobby group, don't contact her, don't get drunk with her, etc. That, along with some time and maybe some journaling will help you get through.
Is there any hope that continuing to carry the torch will result in a positive outcome for me?
Not really, no.
Is Y just *like that* as a person or is it possible that she'd be nicer if she wasn't caught between two relationships like she was?
This isn't about Y needing to be "nicer". Y doesn't want what you want. She's not caught between two relationships. When you were caught, you chose her. She's told you she's chosen her other relationship (and I would doubt she thinks of you as a relationship). She is attracted to you AND she does not want to be with you in any serious/sober way.
How can I stop obsessing over my memories of our "relationship"?
If you're ruminating too much, do something active &/or mindless like taking a walk, doing a load of laundry, or watching a movie. Cut back on the shared hobby. It's easy to think you're in love with someone you've never done the work of a relationship with--it's all sexy, chemistry, connection, & fun at this point. You might have even felt this way about X 8 years ago.
Also, I've been mostly out of contact with X since our breakup, though I do want to be friends eventually--should I let her pick a moment to catch up or should I make the first move?
I personally am highly suspicious of "friends with exes" because it's hard to move backwards in intimacy and why would you want to? Friendly if we bump into each other or an "I saw this meme and thought of you" email in like 6 months or a year from now maybe...but your behavior as described here was pretty crummy. Do not contact. If you contact her anyway, say something like "I'm sorry for the way I was at the end. If you want to talk or try to be on friendly terms, I'm up for that." I think the policy is that if making amends would actually be harmful for the other person, you don't do it. So if trying to be friends is about your anguish or guilt, now's not the time. Process those feelings on your own instead.
posted by kochenta at 2:22 PM on December 4, 2019 [12 favorites]
I'd always felt nervous about this prospect: I loved her but I felt like once this happened, we would have to get married and that would be it for the rest of my life (I had had very little prior relationship experience).
Yeah, I think I see what happened. You were ambivalent about the upcoming escalation in your relationship with X, and you sorta made a decision to end that relationship unconsciously by pursuing another. You took an escape hatch. But now you don't have the thrill of the new relationship to be the salve on the wounds from your break up. I'm sure the added guilt doesn't make it any easier. Here's the deal: Y was a fantasy. You don't really know what it would be like to be in a real relationship with her. You were in love with the idea of her and what it could be. This is limerence, an incredibly common phenomenon when we fall for someone new. It's important to understand that it's temporary (if she returned your affection, down the road, you'd realize she was a regular human with faults and all).
I think you want some positive attention from X the way Y wants some positive attention from you. Please let X be in peace. You all were together for so long. You need at least a year of not being in touch at all in order to really end that relationship. You need to let her go.
Online dating is stressful and unsatisfying compared to the intense connection we had. It can take a fair amount of time, but it's also possible to develop an intense connection with someone you meet through an app.
There aren't a lot of people who share our mutual hobby and it's hard to imagine being with someone who doesn't, let alone someone I also share literary and artistic interests with to the same extent.
This is a story you are telling yourself because you want to believe Y is a perfect partner for you, because you want to feel less guilty about the way things ended with X. I encourage you to spend as little time with Y as possible. Unfriend/unfollow her on social media; delete her phone number; attend as few events she will be at as possible. She's not your lost soulmate. She's just another person on this planet.
I think you've got a lot to process here. You are focusing on your heartbreak over Y but there's also a lot about your relationship with X and how you let it go so long even though it wasn't what you wanted.
So a ritual can be a really good way to move forward when we've experienced loss. I'd encourage you write a letter to X (that you will never send! this is important!), preferably by hand, where you say all the good and bad things. And then write a letter to Y (that you will never send!) by hand, and say it all too. Then go to a beach with a friend and have a bonfire and burn the letters. Or bury them in the ground in the woods after a hike. Do something to make a formal ending ritual. This can be incredibly helpful to us in processing the end of relationships. It's time to have a funeral for these relationships.
And forgive yourself. Be honest with yourself about the mistakes you made but also be gentle with yourself. Get into therapy to figure out what you want. Journal, exercise, go on dating apps, walk, meditate, spend time with people who care about you.
posted by bluedaisy at 2:36 PM on December 4, 2019 [13 favorites]
Yeah, I think I see what happened. You were ambivalent about the upcoming escalation in your relationship with X, and you sorta made a decision to end that relationship unconsciously by pursuing another. You took an escape hatch. But now you don't have the thrill of the new relationship to be the salve on the wounds from your break up. I'm sure the added guilt doesn't make it any easier. Here's the deal: Y was a fantasy. You don't really know what it would be like to be in a real relationship with her. You were in love with the idea of her and what it could be. This is limerence, an incredibly common phenomenon when we fall for someone new. It's important to understand that it's temporary (if she returned your affection, down the road, you'd realize she was a regular human with faults and all).
I think you want some positive attention from X the way Y wants some positive attention from you. Please let X be in peace. You all were together for so long. You need at least a year of not being in touch at all in order to really end that relationship. You need to let her go.
Online dating is stressful and unsatisfying compared to the intense connection we had. It can take a fair amount of time, but it's also possible to develop an intense connection with someone you meet through an app.
There aren't a lot of people who share our mutual hobby and it's hard to imagine being with someone who doesn't, let alone someone I also share literary and artistic interests with to the same extent.
This is a story you are telling yourself because you want to believe Y is a perfect partner for you, because you want to feel less guilty about the way things ended with X. I encourage you to spend as little time with Y as possible. Unfriend/unfollow her on social media; delete her phone number; attend as few events she will be at as possible. She's not your lost soulmate. She's just another person on this planet.
I think you've got a lot to process here. You are focusing on your heartbreak over Y but there's also a lot about your relationship with X and how you let it go so long even though it wasn't what you wanted.
So a ritual can be a really good way to move forward when we've experienced loss. I'd encourage you write a letter to X (that you will never send! this is important!), preferably by hand, where you say all the good and bad things. And then write a letter to Y (that you will never send!) by hand, and say it all too. Then go to a beach with a friend and have a bonfire and burn the letters. Or bury them in the ground in the woods after a hike. Do something to make a formal ending ritual. This can be incredibly helpful to us in processing the end of relationships. It's time to have a funeral for these relationships.
And forgive yourself. Be honest with yourself about the mistakes you made but also be gentle with yourself. Get into therapy to figure out what you want. Journal, exercise, go on dating apps, walk, meditate, spend time with people who care about you.
posted by bluedaisy at 2:36 PM on December 4, 2019 [13 favorites]
Shockingly, no one has suggested therapy yet, so I will. Perhaps short-term counseling can help you heal and process your feelings faster, especially since you say you haven't had much relationship experience. It may be that an outside, professional perspective can really help you through this. The ideas about journaling that others suggested are great too. As far as the hobby group, it sounds like it's an important part of your life. Is there another group in your area? If it's a gaming group there are probably a number of them local to you. Or would you consider finding another similar hobby?
posted by Beethoven's Sith at 2:43 PM on December 4, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by Beethoven's Sith at 2:43 PM on December 4, 2019 [3 favorites]
To "carry the torch" for Y, by definition, means no positive outcome will result for you. It's a metaphor for unrequited love.
Don't seek out either of these women, and get a different hobby.
Seriously. Consider whether your attraction to Y was part of your enchantment with your new pastime. At the tail end of a stagnant relationship, you'd moved to a new city, enthusiastically immersed yourself in this hobby, and found welcome in a niche community. All of this primed you for very positive feelings for a new, attractive someone who shared the same interests. If you felt like updating to name the hobby and what drew you to it, people could point you in a new (similar) direction.
If you feel drawn to a woman you meet through the new hobby, well, as an unattached person it'll be much easier to process (and act on) your feelings; the troubled long-distance relationships you and Y were in when you met served to heighten the frisson between you, and the drama which ensued is the sharpest part of the hook keeping your focus on her. Seeing her at events is just feeding the cycle. Start fresh, and I think you'll feel better.
posted by Iris Gambol at 2:47 PM on December 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
Don't seek out either of these women, and get a different hobby.
Seriously. Consider whether your attraction to Y was part of your enchantment with your new pastime. At the tail end of a stagnant relationship, you'd moved to a new city, enthusiastically immersed yourself in this hobby, and found welcome in a niche community. All of this primed you for very positive feelings for a new, attractive someone who shared the same interests. If you felt like updating to name the hobby and what drew you to it, people could point you in a new (similar) direction.
If you feel drawn to a woman you meet through the new hobby, well, as an unattached person it'll be much easier to process (and act on) your feelings; the troubled long-distance relationships you and Y were in when you met served to heighten the frisson between you, and the drama which ensued is the sharpest part of the hook keeping your focus on her. Seeing her at events is just feeding the cycle. Start fresh, and I think you'll feel better.
posted by Iris Gambol at 2:47 PM on December 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
Yes to therapy, but it’s not just to figure out what you want. When you met Y you had a gut feeling about her (mean-spirited, etc), ignored that, and then blew up your life for a woman in a relationship who told you she didn’t want to be with you. Not to say relationship with X shouldn’t have come to an end, but it came to an end in such an unnecessarily dramatic, selfish, and unkind way to X. I would spend less time (actually no time) holding a torch for Y, but I would spend a lot of time trying to understand *why* this happened. And it’s not because you and Y were star-crossed lovers meant to be together for all of eternity.
And absolutely leave X alone. You don’t get to decide if you’ll be friends. She can reach out when/if she decides to.
posted by namemeansgazelle at 3:19 PM on December 4, 2019 [17 favorites]
And absolutely leave X alone. You don’t get to decide if you’ll be friends. She can reach out when/if she decides to.
posted by namemeansgazelle at 3:19 PM on December 4, 2019 [17 favorites]
Also, I've been mostly out of contact with X since our breakup, though I do want to be friends eventually--should I let her pick a moment to catch up or should I make the first move?
this is not one of those breakups where anyone should have expectations of post-relationship friendships. that's for people who grow apart and mutually agree to see other people, not people who cheat and get caught and then dump their partner for someone else.
posted by poffin boffin at 3:42 PM on December 4, 2019 [48 favorites]
this is not one of those breakups where anyone should have expectations of post-relationship friendships. that's for people who grow apart and mutually agree to see other people, not people who cheat and get caught and then dump their partner for someone else.
posted by poffin boffin at 3:42 PM on December 4, 2019 [48 favorites]
You have written a lot here, but the basic problem is summed up in the title of your post. You believe yourself to still be caught up in a complicated romantic entanglement but that's just ... not true.
You're not caught up in any romantic entanglement, because you have broken up with X and Y has opted not to pursue a relationship with you. The fact that Y will make out with you when she's quite drunk is not a romantic entanglement.
The most important mindset change is to realize that you are no longer involved with either of these women. You are no longer their friend. You are no longer their lover. You are not on some path to an eventual relationship. They do not want you to be.
You are officially a single person.
Go forth and do the things that single people do with literally any of the 7.7 Billion people on this planet who is not one of these two women. Or don't -- it's okay to be single for awhile and just learn to live comfortably in your own skin.
posted by jacquilynne at 4:03 PM on December 4, 2019 [34 favorites]
You're not caught up in any romantic entanglement, because you have broken up with X and Y has opted not to pursue a relationship with you. The fact that Y will make out with you when she's quite drunk is not a romantic entanglement.
The most important mindset change is to realize that you are no longer involved with either of these women. You are no longer their friend. You are no longer their lover. You are not on some path to an eventual relationship. They do not want you to be.
You are officially a single person.
Go forth and do the things that single people do with literally any of the 7.7 Billion people on this planet who is not one of these two women. Or don't -- it's okay to be single for awhile and just learn to live comfortably in your own skin.
posted by jacquilynne at 4:03 PM on December 4, 2019 [34 favorites]
You deserve someone who feels the same way about you as you do about them. You were willing to leave your relationship to give things a shot with Y. Y is not willing to leave her relationship to give things a shot with you. That tells you all you need to know.
And as others have suggested, leaving X out of this would probably be for the best.
As for the future, to quote John Myers Myers: "[Y]ou could cut your throat, but if you wait long enough, you probably won't want to."
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 5:08 PM on December 4, 2019
And as others have suggested, leaving X out of this would probably be for the best.
As for the future, to quote John Myers Myers: "[Y]ou could cut your throat, but if you wait long enough, you probably won't want to."
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 5:08 PM on December 4, 2019
Honestly, out of the three possible outcomes you describe here, it sounds like you wound up with the best one: you winding up single. You did not want to be with X for the rest of your life. Y does not genuinely want to be with you, and doesn't sound like a very reliable person anyway. You're spinning now because you've been through a lot of very emotional events in a short time, but give those emotions time to settle and you'll see that things have worked out for the best. There is no one that got away here.
Let both X and Y go -- X out of fairness to her, and Y out of fairness to you. Concentrate on the life that you have, challenge yourself with a few new goals, have some fun, make some new friends. And when you feel ready, start dating.
posted by orange swan at 5:42 PM on December 4, 2019 [9 favorites]
Let both X and Y go -- X out of fairness to her, and Y out of fairness to you. Concentrate on the life that you have, challenge yourself with a few new goals, have some fun, make some new friends. And when you feel ready, start dating.
posted by orange swan at 5:42 PM on December 4, 2019 [9 favorites]
There aren't a lot of people who share our mutual hobby and it's hard to imagine being with someone who doesn't
You mean the hobby that you discovered about 6 months ago?
Hobbies come and go, and as you drift apart from Y you might be surprised how much interest in the hobby was really interest in her.
Anyway, don't plan your entire life around something you just discovered... and there's a metaphor for your love life here too.
posted by mmoncur at 6:41 PM on December 4, 2019 [15 favorites]
You mean the hobby that you discovered about 6 months ago?
Hobbies come and go, and as you drift apart from Y you might be surprised how much interest in the hobby was really interest in her.
Anyway, don't plan your entire life around something you just discovered... and there's a metaphor for your love life here too.
posted by mmoncur at 6:41 PM on December 4, 2019 [15 favorites]
Y was a catalyst. Yeah, you blew up your life for a woman in a relationship who said she didn't want to be with you—that's not a wrong way of phrasing it—but also, your life needed blowing up and you weren't going to do it on your own. Your brain seized on Y as a way to get you out of a relationship you were ambivalent about. She has now done her job and there is no more job for her to do. Thank her (in absentia) for catalyzing a change you needed to make, and recognize that that chapter is closed.
posted by babelfish at 9:12 PM on December 4, 2019 [7 favorites]
posted by babelfish at 9:12 PM on December 4, 2019 [7 favorites]
There's no complicated romantic entanglement here. You left a a long-term relationship that you no longer wanted to pursue someone else and that pursuit did not work out. Y does not want the same kind of relationship with you as you want with her, and X is getting on with her life without you in it.
None of this makes you a terrible person, but it does make you single. Now you get to do what wise single people do, and get in with your own life, while perhaps thinking about the patterns and circumstances that got you here, and what you would like to do differently next time around.
posted by rpfields at 9:18 PM on December 4, 2019 [8 favorites]
None of this makes you a terrible person, but it does make you single. Now you get to do what wise single people do, and get in with your own life, while perhaps thinking about the patterns and circumstances that got you here, and what you would like to do differently next time around.
posted by rpfields at 9:18 PM on December 4, 2019 [8 favorites]
I think above responses have covered the "dude, no" aspect of your questions about whether you should continue to think about your fling.
I wanted to contribute quickly to these:
There aren't a lot of people who share our mutual hobby and it's hard to imagine being with someone who doesn't
Come on! Have you never introduced a partner to a cool thing?? It's the MOST fun. And imagine how nice it will be to walk into the next Cool Thing gathering with someone totally new to the community next to you. Remember, six months ago, YOU were that new person, and look at you now.
How can I stop obsessing over my memories of our "relationship"?
I think gratitude can help here. Be grateful for what it was - a catalyst for change which you badly needed to stop you from making a commitment to X that you would almost certainly have been unhappy about in the long term. A view into another kind of relationship from the one you were used to. Also, a warning about what you don't want in your next relationship (someone who isn't really into you enough to commit to you). You haven't had some sort of Great Betrayal here, or Huge Tragedy. You've been through events which caused change, and that change is good.
Also, I've been mostly out of contact with X since our breakup, though I do want to be friends eventually--should I let her pick a moment to catch up or should I make the first move?
From experience, you can probably do this, but here are the things I would recommend to make sure it's real and not harmful to her (or you):
- Don't contact X AT ALL until you have done the work on yourself you need to do to move on from your crush
- Don't say more than happy birthday or happy holidays for at least one year post breakup
- After that you can ask how she's doing and how things are going, casually. Let her set the pace, if she doesn't respond, don't chase
- If you get a new partner before she does, I would say that you may need to leave it even longer. There's a power balance which could make this harder on her, if you get it wrong.
posted by greenish at 2:00 AM on December 5, 2019 [6 favorites]
I wanted to contribute quickly to these:
There aren't a lot of people who share our mutual hobby and it's hard to imagine being with someone who doesn't
Come on! Have you never introduced a partner to a cool thing?? It's the MOST fun. And imagine how nice it will be to walk into the next Cool Thing gathering with someone totally new to the community next to you. Remember, six months ago, YOU were that new person, and look at you now.
How can I stop obsessing over my memories of our "relationship"?
I think gratitude can help here. Be grateful for what it was - a catalyst for change which you badly needed to stop you from making a commitment to X that you would almost certainly have been unhappy about in the long term. A view into another kind of relationship from the one you were used to. Also, a warning about what you don't want in your next relationship (someone who isn't really into you enough to commit to you). You haven't had some sort of Great Betrayal here, or Huge Tragedy. You've been through events which caused change, and that change is good.
Also, I've been mostly out of contact with X since our breakup, though I do want to be friends eventually--should I let her pick a moment to catch up or should I make the first move?
From experience, you can probably do this, but here are the things I would recommend to make sure it's real and not harmful to her (or you):
- Don't contact X AT ALL until you have done the work on yourself you need to do to move on from your crush
- Don't say more than happy birthday or happy holidays for at least one year post breakup
- After that you can ask how she's doing and how things are going, casually. Let her set the pace, if she doesn't respond, don't chase
- If you get a new partner before she does, I would say that you may need to leave it even longer. There's a power balance which could make this harder on her, if you get it wrong.
posted by greenish at 2:00 AM on December 5, 2019 [6 favorites]
As noted above, you are romantically entangled with either of these women. You're single! Try living life as a single person- make plans with friends, take a trip to another city (maybe to visit friends or family, or to attend a hobby-related event), use your newfound free time to do whatever you like. After you start feeling comfortable with your new single self, then start dating if you feel like it.
posted by emd3737 at 6:47 AM on December 5, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by emd3737 at 6:47 AM on December 5, 2019 [1 favorite]
As others have noted, this is an opportunity to make yourself your new project (there's a line in a Diane Coffee song, "an empty bed / leaves room to grow"). Now might be a good time for you to do a deep dive into your attachment style. I read comments like, "I loved her, but..." when talking about a long, apparently stable and reciprocal relationship, up against a deep infatuation with someone who was fundamentally unavailable (and possibly cruel), and I think of the value I've gotten from talking to a therapist this last year (after a major breakup) specifically about how my "hardwiring" may be working against me in ways I've not been very consciously aware of. This is good information to explore, to prepare yourself for how you'd like to deal with future scenarios.
How do I move on?
This is a tough one. It's so tough for me that, again, I started seeing a therapist. A very helpful thing in my case was learning (slowly) how to simply allow these ruminative thoughts--which are unavoidable and really can't be suppressed--to exist without dominating my ability to engage with my life. I talk quite a lot about how ACT (a specific kind of evidence-based therapy) has helped me in this regard. If you're not interested in finding a counselor, I'd be happy to suggest some ACT resources that you can use to sort of DIY this kind of thing. It's valuable practice to any degree, as it's focused on helping you be more resilient in the face of adversity, past, present, or future.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 1:47 PM on December 5, 2019 [1 favorite]
How do I move on?
This is a tough one. It's so tough for me that, again, I started seeing a therapist. A very helpful thing in my case was learning (slowly) how to simply allow these ruminative thoughts--which are unavoidable and really can't be suppressed--to exist without dominating my ability to engage with my life. I talk quite a lot about how ACT (a specific kind of evidence-based therapy) has helped me in this regard. If you're not interested in finding a counselor, I'd be happy to suggest some ACT resources that you can use to sort of DIY this kind of thing. It's valuable practice to any degree, as it's focused on helping you be more resilient in the face of adversity, past, present, or future.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 1:47 PM on December 5, 2019 [1 favorite]
You’re not entangled with anyone anymore, and I think that’s why you’re feeling so bad. All the lust and excitement and drama is over. And there’s nothing to take its place, and not even the comfortable familiarity of your relationship with X to distract you.
This is one of those times when you need to sit in the discomfort. Not fix anything or pursue anything or build any new friendship with X to soothe you. Just sit and let the feelings wash over you. And eventually realise that even the worst feeling is tolerable and learn to soothe yourself.
I read a lovely quote from Rilke yesterday that is helping me a lot: Let everything happen to you: beauty and terror. Just keep going. No feeling is final.
posted by wreckofthehesperus at 12:09 AM on December 6, 2019 [3 favorites]
This is one of those times when you need to sit in the discomfort. Not fix anything or pursue anything or build any new friendship with X to soothe you. Just sit and let the feelings wash over you. And eventually realise that even the worst feeling is tolerable and learn to soothe yourself.
I read a lovely quote from Rilke yesterday that is helping me a lot: Let everything happen to you: beauty and terror. Just keep going. No feeling is final.
posted by wreckofthehesperus at 12:09 AM on December 6, 2019 [3 favorites]
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Kindly, your relationship with Y was not a relationship. It is/was a fling and flirtation. You aren't in love with her because love takes two people. You have a crush, and it feels like you won't get over it, but you will. She's taken, and she has chosen someone else. You have to let it go.
Time will heal. It's so cliched, but it's true. I promise.
I recommend remaining out of contact with X, and doing the same for Y, as much as possible. Treat Y as you do any other acquaintance at your hobby events. Do NOT 'carry the torch'. Find another person who is available and interested.
posted by hydra77 at 1:33 PM on December 4, 2019 [29 favorites]