Parent's finances help
June 30, 2019 4:41 PM   Subscribe

I manage my elderly, middle-class parents funds and I'm doing a bad job. What kind of professional can help and can I afford them?

My parents have some savings, a couple 503Bs, a pension, and Social Security. Monthly expenses are pretty simple as most bills are folded into their assisted living rent (which is paid in part by long term care insurance, which will run out eventually).

But I'm doing a bad job managing things. I paid their taxes wrong last year by more than $2000, I don't understand how to file right for this year (already filed an extension at least). I don't understand if they have enough money to live on and for how many years.

Math is hard for me and I'm definitely having large emotional barriers to figuring this stuff out. I write everything down then get overwhelmed. I've gotten some help from my wife and others but I get overwhelmed by not being able to assess if we're correct in our assessments.

I'm afraid there isn't enough money to pay a professional to just manage everything and tell me how long the money will last, but I think I need someone to do this for me. My mom retired from a public university, so they were/are comfortable but not rich.

Should i just try to somehow figure this out? Should I hire someone? Who? (I live in the SF Bay Area if you have specific suggestions).
posted by latkes to Work & Money (19 answers total) 10 users marked this as a favorite
 
You local area senior services can point you in the right direction. I am fairly certain the social worker at the assisted living facility has a nice list of local agencies designed to help families figure this stuff out. There are a wide variety of nonprofit services that do this stuff (and paid services), hopefully others here will have exact referrals)

Ask him/her, and see who she refers to.
posted by AlexiaSky at 5:11 PM on June 30, 2019 [3 favorites]


I don't think you will be able to get day-to-day management cheaply, especially if your parents don't have a lot of resources, but your local senior resources can probably help you find a planner to set up a plan.
posted by praemunire at 5:24 PM on June 30, 2019 [3 favorites]


Okay, first of all: Why are you taking this on? Why aren't your parents managing their own funds? I'm not trying to be pushy or abrasive here but asking an honest question. Are they mentally incapable of this stuff? If so, fine. If not, then why are they putting it on you and why are you taking it on?

Second: You don't need a professional. This stuff isn't complicated. How do I know? Because I'm an average Joe who taught himself about money, and now I've been writing about it for over a decade. (Check my post history.) You (or your parents) are perfectly capable of handling this stuff. It's non-difficult. It's only difficult if you make yourself believe that it's difficult.

Third: Do you not have an accountant to help with taxes? You should. A $2000 mistake is four years of accounting help. That in and of itself should be enough to motivate you to ask friends and colleagues for recommendations. Find a good accountant and use her to help you navigate the tax stuff.

Fourth: IN GENERAL -- not an absolute but IN GENERAL -- your parents can draw down 4% each year of their invested assets. Not their home equity, but how much they have in the bank and in stock investments (and similar vehicles). This is a rule of thumb. It's not written in stone but it's enough to work with. So, if they have $200,000 in cash and stocks, they can access $8,000 without worry. If they have $2,000,000, then they can access $80,000 without worry. This is based on a thirty year time horizon. If they're fifty (I'm not sure what you mean by "elderly"), then 4% is probably too aggressive. They should adjust to 3%. But if they're 80, they can probably jack that rate up much higher. Maybe 10%.

Fifth: Some general advice. Your goal (and everyone's goal, really) should be to keep costs down on the big things. Housing and transportation make up half the average American budget. Food is in third place. If your parents are carrying a mortgage, how big is it? If it's substantial, if it's a burden, they should move. I don't give a shit how sentimental the home is. By far the #1 place most people can save money is on housing. Most folks are too stubborn or emotional to see this. Set pride and sentiment aside. If your parents can't afford their home, they need to move. Same with their cars. What are they driving? How much does it cost them? If their cars are draining their funds, sell them and get something cheap, safe, and reliable.

I wish I could put flashing colored lights on that last paragraph. It's important. Not just for your parents but for everyone. Seriously. If people reading this would follow that advice, they'd save themselves grief. And get rich.

Finally: If you need help, look me up. I'm not good about replying to MeMail. (It takes years sometimes!) But my public identity is not hidden. It's easy to find me and to email me. I'm a legit person in the personal finance space, and I'm willing to help. Honestly, though? You don't need my help. You can do this yourself. Or, better yet, your parents can.
posted by jdroth at 5:27 PM on June 30, 2019 [28 favorites]


Second Social Workers. They were incredibly helpful and guided us in the right direction to find resources for my Grandpa. My parents were having major caregiver burnout and they made a world of a difference. Some of the pamphlets they gave us described resources I never knew existed. For example Adult Day Care is a thing. My Grandpa is too ill to use that service but it's nice to know something like that exists.

Helping take care of elderly parents or even organizing their care can be incredibly stressful and emotionally draining. No need to do the financial part on hard mode if you're already overwhelmed. Get help from professionals when needed. At least get some free pamphlets. Even if you don't use the financial planners they suggest, you may learn of free or low cost resources.

Here's a link for San Francisco County Resources. Here's a link to their Financial Services section. Phone number 415-750-4111.

Santa Clara County link.
posted by mundo at 5:57 PM on June 30, 2019 [1 favorite]


Why aren't your parents managing their own funds?

If your parents are carrying a mortgage, how big is it? If it's substantial, if it's a burden, they should move. I don't give a shit how sentimental the home is.


Please note the OP's parents are in assisted living. It is not unusual for people in AL to need assistance with activities of daily living like bathing and laundry, let alone managing their remaining funds. Despite your assertions that "this stuff isn't complicated," it *is*, because AL is private pay for most people - Medicare does not cover it.

OP, I recommend you ask the assisted living facility if there is a social worker on staff dedicated to family members of residents.
posted by mostly vowels at 6:08 PM on June 30, 2019 [8 favorites]


Response by poster: For context, my mom has severe alzheimers and my dad is modestly cognitively impaired after a stroke and they aren't able to do their finances. Fortunately, they live in an assisted living facility where meals, cleaning and med administration are done for them. I am very lucky that my mom was able to buy long term care insurance when she was younger so for now it pays the bulk of their daily living expenses, although I understand that will run out in about 4 years. I'm also lucky that they did own a home (which I sold for them) and had savings and some retirement accounts, and even a pension, so they will not be destitute no matter what. But I know I'm not handling this as well as I could be and have some avoidance about looking at things.

I do appreciate the pep talk from jdroth - I definitely know you know what you're talking about re: financial planning! Thanks for the suggestions. It seems like just figuring this out is one angle I can take (and may have to!) I know it's not super complicated, and a lot of my barriers are emotional.

Re: social workers, I'm skeptical of the help they could provide. There's no social worker at their facility. I work in healthcare and am pretty aware of the resources available to medical social workers in California, and I've also interfaced a bit with the elder care services in their county (Sacramento) at various points, but I will dig into more elder-specific services during business hours tomorrow. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.

Additional suggestions welcome. Thanks for helping me think this through.
posted by latkes at 6:18 PM on June 30, 2019


Hi, latkes. Managing your finances yourself can be empowering, but I think in this case you are smart to seek outside help. Your situation is relatively complex given that you are dealing with a pension, investments (I think, is a 503b like a 403b?), and long-term care insurance. If you’d like to go with a private financial planner rather than someone with a city agency or social worker, I can recommend a financial planner I’ve used. I saw Sean Burgess in San Francisco for some fairly basic financial planning and he was easy to work with, helpful, knowledgable, and forthright. I picked him based on his stellar reviews on Yelp. Our hourlong appointment cost me somewhere between $200 - $500 (can’t quite remember). I don’t know how much a review of your situation would be, but I suspect the fee would be worthwhile for you, considering the stakes are so high. Wherever you go, look for a fiduciary financial planner because they are legally required to prioritize your interests when offering you advice.
posted by reren at 6:41 PM on June 30, 2019 [2 favorites]


I bet you can find a fee-only certified financial planner who specializes in retirement/Medicare issues for a consultation. As I said above, though, that will give you a plan, it won't handle the day-to-day. Given the way you describe your parents' resources, I don't think they can afford a "manager," who would be vastly overpriced for what they'd get. The planning is really the most complicated part. I hope with that in place you will feel less anxious overall.

(BTW, I'm normally pretty forceful with people about the relative simplicity of the financial planning part (as opposed to the living it part) and the need to pull up one's socks and do it yourself, but for someone grappling with basically losing two parents to dementia? I don't blame you one bit for having trouble bringing your mind to bear on the problem.)
posted by praemunire at 6:42 PM on June 30, 2019 [7 favorites]


I think it would be completely reasonable to find a fee-only financial planner for one or two visits to help you set up a big picture plan for how to manage this (e.g., which funds to draw down first, whether the investment allocation should be changed, strategizing around eventual Medicaid qualification when the LTC insurance runs out etc.) This will probably cost a few thousand dollars up front and less for periodic (every 2-3 years) check-ins. I agree that it will probably be overkill to completely hand the management to a professional, but they can get you started on a plan in a way that you're comfortable with. Because retirement and estate planning is such a big element of financial planning, most of the financial planners will have experience with the resources your parents have, but you could particularly look for someone with expertise in planning for long term care. I would start by asking around your network (including neighborhood Facebook or NextDoor groups) for fee-only financial planners or even just checking the NAPFA website and then winnowing down people who look like they would work.

Please don't feel shame about this. These are complicated issues, it's natural to feel anxious about taking on this important responsibility for your parents, and seeing your parents decline and become unable to do complicated tasks is difficult for most people. The financial planning industry exists for a reason, and it is a big industry. Jdroth is correct that you can probably do this by yourself, but it will require a fair amount of research and you may not feel comfortable with it or interested enough to put in the effort needed to make yourself feel like you're doing a good job. It's OK to get help if you want it, the same way that some people are fine with changing their car's oil or whipping up a skirt, and others take their cars to a mechanic and buy off the rack clothing.
posted by The Elusive Architeuthis at 6:43 PM on June 30, 2019 [4 favorites]


The first place to start is to figure out how much your parents need to live on. You probably know their usual monthly expenses. Go back through their bank statements for the past year or two and see what else they need to allow for.

Now look at their income. There are two categories. One is the fixed payout from outside sources like their pension and social security plus the long term care plan. The second is the drawdown from their savings including the 503b accounts.

Now you want to calculate how much they need to draw from savings each year. Actually two numbers - one is the next expense for now (NEN) and the other is the net expenses after they lose their care plan - call it net expense later (NEL)

I am going to make this simple and assume that any earnings on their savings will offset inflation so you can just work in today's dollars. I'm also assuming that they will be able to stay where they are and not have to move from assisted living to a more expensive nursing home.

Now, take their total savings S. Then figure out their total four year expenses (until the care plan runs out) and calculate how much savings will be left at that point. Take that number, divide by the future net expenses and you will get how long their money will last. (S - 4*NEN)/NEL

Compare that to their life expectancy and you will some rough idea of whether they will run out of money before the end of their life.
posted by metahawk at 6:50 PM on June 30, 2019 [1 favorite]


There are resources available for free tax prep for the elderly in the US. I would assume there is way that you can get their services on their behalf.
posted by metahawk at 6:56 PM on June 30, 2019


You say your mom was at a public university. Could you ask them if they have any available resources or vetted planners? UC example, or Berkeley. That could be another starting point to getting an initial consultation.
posted by inevitability at 6:58 PM on June 30, 2019 [2 favorites]


Re: that $2000 tax mistake -- if you know what it was, file a 1040X to correct it.
posted by Rash at 7:00 PM on June 30, 2019 [1 favorite]


Nthing a financial planner to help you actually make a plan and figure out what you've got and what to expect from it.

Beyond that, the best thing I did for myself when I did this for my dad was to set up a complete budget for him (I use YNAB), so that I was looking at his money and expenses in a format that was really familiar for me; trying to track it on paper the way he did was just too overwhelming. I set up his retirement accounts as off-budget accounts, and transferred the monthly distribution as income to his regular savings account, then allocated as needed.

That gave me a solid grip on how much cushion I had if we ran out of cash and I had to start raiding the principal on the retirement accounts, which was a big relief to have so clear, finally.

Feel free to memail if you want to talk this out at all!
posted by current resident at 7:02 PM on June 30, 2019 [1 favorite]


It’s free to call Charles Schwab or Edward Jones or similar national franchises for fee-based financial planning.

Your case is slightly complicated and emotionally draining: these folks are definitely affordable in this context, imo. Be kind to yourself and offload this if you can; hang in there!
posted by SaltySalticid at 7:30 PM on June 30, 2019


It’s free to call Charles Schwab or Edward Jones or similar national franchises for fee-based financial planning.


Fee-based is distinct from fee-only. OP needs a fiduciary, not bloodsuckers.
posted by praemunire at 7:47 PM on June 30, 2019 [1 favorite]


I paid their taxes wrong last year by more than $2000, I don't understand how to file right for this year (already filed an extension at least).
As mentioned above, there is free help for seniors available through an IRS program called VITA or TCE. For this year, you need to go to a professional since filing season is over, but next year, make an appointment early and bring all their documents along. If one or both of them cannot come with you, please bring a Power of Attorney document to prove you have the right to file on their behalf (even if dad comes and mom does not, for example). I volunteer at one of the sites in MN and there is no specific income limit for our site. There are some forms we can't file, but your parents' situation sounds simple enough for us. This is totally free, thought we have limited hours and are only open February - April. If you can take a weekday off of work, they are usually not as busy as the weekends.
We can file previous years and look over previous filings to ensure they were done right. If there is anything wrong, we can help you file an amendment. Sometimes it takes people more than one appointment to get every form and item filed, but we are here to help you make sure everything is completed. We double check each others work before filing to ensure accuracy.

We cannot give you advice about investments, but AARP sponsors my site and they do offer a lot of services for seniors. They should also be able to connect you with any local services that do exist.
posted by soelo at 7:34 AM on July 1, 2019 [2 favorites]


I'm sorry this is so overwhelming for you. You can do this, especially with some help and support. Someone could help you organize things and develop a plan.

Everyplace in the US has an Area Agency on Aging, federal and state funded agency to provide services to old people. In SF, it's AgingCare Sacramento is Agency4. They should be able to help you find a qualified, ethical person, ideally a volunteer. The city resources mundo posted are likely to be helpful. This stuff is time consuming, but take notes and make the many phone calls.

Are your parents likely to have ever set up online accounts for banking or finances? Those are a bit harder to track down, but you probably have access to their email. I recommend making a list on paper or in a simple spreadsheet of every account they have with assets in it. They probably have a checking account and investment accounts, maybe from 401Ks from employers. One or both of them may have a pension that pays a certain amount per month, and they probably get Social Security. If your Mom was employed by a state university, the HR office may be able to inform you about how to find pension and insurance benefits. Even impaired, your folks may be able to fill you in to some extent.

You also need a handle on payments they're making. Obviously, they are paying to live in Assisted Living, but they may have credit cards and other accounts.

If you don't have their Power of Attorney, Health Care Proxy and other stuff, it's time.

As an older person, thank you for caring for your parents and helping them even though it's not easy for you. I suspect having someone walk you through things will get you started and you will be able to manage this on your own.
posted by theora55 at 9:17 AM on July 1, 2019


Liz Weston writes a syndicated finance column, and she discusses how to find a fee-only financial planner, here.

Look for a fiduciary, which means that they will put your interests first, not their own.

You might find other good info on her website, or maybe even submit a question of your own.

Good luck - I know this feels overwhelming, but you can do it! One step at a time.
posted by hydra77 at 9:17 AM on July 1, 2019


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