It's all downhill from here - good or bad?

April 10, 2019 2:47 PM

I've always read (and used) the phrase "it's all downhill from here" as a way to say that things are about to get better. But I often see the exact same phrase used as the exact opposite meaning. So what is it for you?

So I always assumed that the phrase means you've worked hard to get to the top of the hill, and now it's smooth sailing downhill the rest of the way -- i.e., it's a good thing. But a lot of people use it to mean that you've just reached the pinnacle, and everything that follows is a long downhill slog to the bottom -- i.e., it's a bad thing.

Which do you use it for? Is this a geographic thing? Is one "right" and one "wrong"? I grew up in Chicago and Pennsylvania, if that makes any difference...

posted by Mchelly to Writing & Language (59 answers total)

Using it pejoratively is simply an ironic use of the otherwise common (it's a good thing) use of the phrase.
posted by humboldt32 at 2:52 PM on April 10, 2019 [1 favorite]

It’s both for me, and it’s pretty clear to me from context which one is meant. The negative sense to me is the derived one, it’s usually delivered with a bit of a wink; like sure let’s laugh a bit about it only gets worse by inverting the common phrase. I also grew up in the Midwest, mostly associated with white euro Midwesterners as a kid.
posted by SaltySalticid at 2:53 PM on April 10, 2019 [1 favorite]

It didn't occur to me until I read this but I find it can mean either, depending on context.
posted by Smearcase at 2:53 PM on April 10, 2019 [13 favorites]

Same as Smearcase. If things are going to be easy from here on out, hey, it's all downhill from here. If the day has peaked by 9:30AM...well...it's downhill from here.
posted by jquinby at 2:58 PM on April 10, 2019 [1 favorite]

I live in San Diego, now in northern California-- it has always been the opposite for me. It did not occur to me it could mean things will get better. But it could also be due to the fact that I am bad at interpreting sayings like this.
posted by typify at 3:02 PM on April 10, 2019 [16 favorites]

It occurs to me there’s a third sense, which is sort of both the positive and the negative. Like things are getting worse but it’s at least relatively easy: something a decently privileged and secure 60 year old white dude may say to his friend upon turning 50.
posted by SaltySalticid at 3:02 PM on April 10, 2019

I grew up in the ironic 90's and before this post I had not even the slightest inkling that there was a sincere, positive usage.
posted by Freelance Demiurge at 3:03 PM on April 10, 2019 [40 favorites]

I've always taken it to be a negative, like "things are going south".
posted by she's not there at 3:07 PM on April 10, 2019 [21 favorites]

Every time I use it I have to pause and clarify which meaning I intend! And no one I'm talking to ever is sure which meaning is "correct."
posted by verbyournouns at 3:07 PM on April 10, 2019

I have only ever heard it used pejoratively. When Uncle Louie’s health is going downhill, do you think he’s getting better?

The only way I could understand it to be a positive would be literally, in the sense that we’ve been hiking over a mountain to our destination. But that, I think, misconstrues the idiom.

It’s like saying “your goose is cooked” is a positive, because, “yay, delicious cooked goose!”
posted by Admiral Haddock at 3:13 PM on April 10, 2019 [9 favorites]

I'm aware of it being used both ways but I've only really used it in the negative sense, and that's the one I'd probably assume without context. I grew up on the West Coast.
posted by eponym at 3:15 PM on April 10, 2019 [2 favorites]

Another "either one, depending on context." (But mostly negative/ironic.) Quoting a Quora answer I found while Googling, which IMO describes the possible contexts rather well:

"If you are talking about reaching a climax, a summit, or a high point of some kind, then "it's all downhill from here" means nothing else will be as exciting or great.

However, if you are focusing on the difficulty of a task, and the hardest part is complete, then "it's all downhill from here" means everything will be easier from now on."

Grew up in a suburban area where no-one is originally from (so no clear geographic element) plus I learned a lot of idioms/phrases/etc. from reading rather than actual people using them IRL.
posted by soundguy99 at 3:18 PM on April 10, 2019 [2 favorites]

To me its immediate connotation is always negative, though I know it has the other meaning. I only ever use it in a negative sense. West Coast Canadian here.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 3:19 PM on April 10, 2019 [2 favorites]

Always negative for me, lived in Minnesota my whole life.
posted by soelo at 3:21 PM on April 10, 2019

It's nearly always negative for me, unless I'm talking to a fellow runner/hiker/cycler on the summit of a hill or mountain. I'm cheesy enough that I'm sure I've used it in a positive sense in that situation at least once. (Raised in the midwest, now living in the northeast).
posted by geegollygosh at 3:22 PM on April 10, 2019

Always negative for me. Grew up in Illinois in the 60s.
posted by FencingGal at 3:25 PM on April 10, 2019

I have also always been confused by it. Ontario and Nova Scotia.
posted by MangoNews at 3:27 PM on April 10, 2019

When I saw the title, it was the negative meaning that came to mind. I think of that as the standard meaning. I could certainly imagine a context where it could be given a positive meaning, and it totally makes sense for it to be positive, but if someone said, "It's all downhill from here" without any context I would assume a negative meaning. I'm older than the average MeFite (in my 50's.) I've lived all over the country and was raised by midwesterners but I feel like this is a phrase I've heard more in books or other media than spoken by people in real life.
posted by Redstart at 3:30 PM on April 10, 2019 [2 favorites]

A friend of mine from Chicago married another Chicagoan at a destination wedding in Colorado. The ceremony and reception was on top of a mountain and thus it was not quite offensive when the couple was toasted with "it's all downhill from here!" but even in that context there was a glaring negative entendre that made it a not very funny joke.
posted by Cold Lurkey at 3:30 PM on April 10, 2019 [1 favorite]

To me it is bad, to my parents it is good. I don't know why. SoCal kids, the lot of us.
posted by Hermione Granger at 3:37 PM on April 10, 2019

80% negative for me, but 20% positive based on context. Grew up in New England, long time resident of the mid-Atlantic now.
posted by General Malaise at 3:37 PM on April 10, 2019

English by birth, living in Scotland. I have never heard this used in a positive sense, only in the negative, though I see now how it can be meant in the opposite way, although it had never occured to me before this thread that it could be.
posted by Chairboy at 3:37 PM on April 10, 2019 [2 favorites]

It has never occurred to me until this moment that it could have any meaning other than the negative one. (CT/NY.)

Honestly even though I now understand how someone could mean it positively, that doesn’t quite work for me as an expression. Sure, walking uphill is a struggle, but walking downhill, especially a very steep hill, can also be pretty dangerous and painful. So yeah, eternal pessimist here I guess.
posted by DestinationUnknown at 3:39 PM on April 10, 2019 [2 favorites]

I think folks are confusing another similar euphemism "Things going downhill", which is different than "It's all downhill from here."
posted by humboldt32 at 3:51 PM on April 10, 2019 [5 favorites]

Sure, walking uphill is a struggle, but walking downhill, especially a very steep hill, can also be pretty dangerous and painful

Cycling downhill is pretty nice!

I generally use the phrase ironically, capitalizing on the dual meaning. I'm sure I'm not alone.
posted by EtTuHealy at 3:51 PM on April 10, 2019 [1 favorite]

Whoa! Another tally for “never occurred to me that it could be positive.”

I feel like once or twice, I’ve heard a slightly rephrased version of it, e.g: “it should be downhill from here on out” in a way that foregrounds the ease of downhill movement, and interpreted that positively. I mean technically there’s no reason why these wouldn’t be completely synonymous, but I think with a little distance from the “all downhill” cliche it’s easier to interpret that increased ease aspect. Hm!
posted by elephantsvanish at 3:51 PM on April 10, 2019 [1 favorite]

I've always heard it as a negative (Southeastern U.S.) if it's being used as a figure of speech...like the opposite of "it's smooth sailing from here".
posted by victoriab at 3:56 PM on April 10, 2019 [3 favorites]

If you could make a line graph of your life that shows your happiness level, there's got to be a high point - the best day of your life when you were at your happiest. From that point, even though you'll have good and bad days, you'll never reach that high point again.

It's all downhill from that moment.

To me, the phrase implies negativity.
posted by tacodave at 3:58 PM on April 10, 2019

In fact, if I think about it. That's probably exactly what the OP is asking. Using "It's all downhill from here'' as a negative is essentially a malapropism of "Things have really gone downhill."
posted by humboldt32 at 4:06 PM on April 10, 2019

I've always read (and used) the phrase "it's all downhill from here" as a way to say that things are about to get better. But I often see the exact same phrase used as the exact opposite meaning. So what is it for you?

If it's all downhill from here then things are certainly going to require less effort, but that in no way implies that they're going to get better.

This 57yo Australian has always heard and used "it's all downhill from here" to mean that the decline and ruination of everything good is now unavoidable.

See also: falling off a cliff, really letting yourself go.
posted by flabdablet at 4:18 PM on April 10, 2019

Always heard it used as negative, as in things will be getting worse.

The positive meaning is more in phrases like "it'll be smooth sailing / blue skies from now on"
posted by jasper411 at 4:21 PM on April 10, 2019

Lived in Ohio all my life and it also never occurred to me that this could be a positive phrase. I have never, ever heard it used that way. Even reading this, it is still truly perplexing to me.
posted by Aranquis at 4:31 PM on April 10, 2019

Adding to the chorus of I've never heard or used it positively, only has negative connotations & meanings. I'm definitely not confusing it with a different phrase, though maybe that's where it came from. I've lived in the Bay Area & New England.
posted by brainmouse at 4:34 PM on April 10, 2019 [1 favorite]

The OED has both senses ("going to ruin" and "easy from here on out") listed under the main entry for "downhill", and under "downhill all the way". The negative one is listed first in both cases.

There doesn't seem to be any irony/sarcasm under the positive examples: e.g., Reagan in fact agreed to run in part on the assurance that, after New Hampshire, it would be downhill all the way. and The first step had been the hardest. After that, it was downhill all the way. The first dates for all of them are fairly close.

I can get both myself, including a sarcastic/ironic version of the negative one.
posted by damayanti at 4:43 PM on April 10, 2019 [1 favorite]

Grew up in New Zealand, live in USA (NYC) as an adult, never heard it used in a positive sense.
posted by gaspode at 4:50 PM on April 10, 2019

To not abuse the edit, I meant to add: yes, the "all downhill" only ever means a decline. Decline is rarely a good thing.
posted by gaspode at 4:51 PM on April 10, 2019

Using "It's all downhill from here'' as a negative is essentially a malapropism of "Things have really gone downhill."

I think what might distinguish the two schools of thought on this is that to me (and the others who hear it as negative) this can’t be a malapropism because these are not different expressions. There is only one expression: “downhill” meaning “getting worse.” Whether someone phrases it “It’s all downhill from here” or “things have gone downhill” or “well that went downhill fast” or any other way, the part we assign the meaning to is the same.
posted by DestinationUnknown at 5:02 PM on April 10, 2019 [3 favorites]

Born in the 70s, grew up in the American South, lived in California most of my adult life.

To me, it's definitely both, and I've used it and heard it in both positive and negative senses.

The positive is quite clear to me, you say it after the difficult part is done (like in the literal sense of going down a hill after climbing it).
posted by thefoxgod at 5:04 PM on April 10, 2019

Always assumed it means "it's going to go bad".

I think it's like "the problems are going to start snowballing - get worse at a faster pace"
posted by trialex at 5:38 PM on April 10, 2019

I’ve always used it to mean a negative, in the latter way you explained.

Using it pejoratively is simply an ironic use of the otherwise common (it's a good thing) use of the phrase.

Not to be chatfiltery, but I’ve never used it ironically. I never knew people used it in a positive way until well into adulthood. And now I have to parse what the speaker means, which is annoying. I’m from New England and possibly I didn’t hear it used positively until I moved to CA? Can’t swear though.
posted by greermahoney at 5:49 PM on April 10, 2019

In my experience, either one, and it's clear from context.

Much like "a rolling stone gathers no moss" which I've seen mean "if you keep moving you never get stale and stodgy" and "if you keep moving you never put down roots in a community and nobody cares about you."
posted by potrzebie at 6:00 PM on April 10, 2019 [1 favorite]

I would never read this in a positive context. It’s saying “things will never be as good as they are right now.”
posted by Automocar at 6:09 PM on April 10, 2019

I've spent most of my life in California and am familiar with both meanings. I think it's clear that there are two different metaphors involved, so it is not comprehensively correct to say that one meaning is an ironic reversal of the other.
posted by aws17576 at 6:26 PM on April 10, 2019

As a cyclist, I think about this a lot. I think my default meaning is the one where downhill means something negative, but going downhill is a glorious relief for me, so it's weird.

I think I get it better as a peak ascent metaphor: You have achieved this thing, now there is nothing left to achieve on this journey.

But I still have to stop and think twice whenever I hear someone else use the phrase.
posted by rhiannonstone at 6:34 PM on April 10, 2019

For me it has always meant things are getting worse but I have heard it used in a positive way occasionally.
posted by EatMyHat at 7:20 PM on April 10, 2019 [1 favorite]

A conceptual metaphor is a shared framework for thinking about something in terms of another thing. Some are so prevalent we hardly even think about them, like TIME IS MONEY* (you borrow it, waste it, spend it, invest it) or ARGUMENT IS WAR (you devise strategies, attack weak points, defend claims). A lot of them are spatial or orientational, especially with regard to up and down: e.g., HAPPY IS UP, SAD IS DOWN, but also MORE IS UP, LESS IS DOWN. This is interesting because it's a collision of two opposite spatial metaphors. But GOOD IS UP, BAD IS DOWN is so ingrained in so many different contexts that it's very hard to understand "all downhill" as a good thing, even though WORK IS A MOUNTAIN is a totally valid, if less common, conceptual metaphor that we see in phrases like "uphill battle."

*all of these examples from Lakoff's book
posted by theodolite at 7:52 PM on April 10, 2019 [1 favorite]

Always negative (Scotland). It's up there with "It's a sair fecht and then ye dee" ([Life] is a hard fight and then you die)
posted by scruss at 8:03 PM on April 10, 2019

I grew up in New England, spent some time in the PacNW and am now back. That said, one half of my family are from NY and one half are from the Midwest which might have some affect (since I note you're in NY?) To me this is very very narrowbanded to what you're saying.

"It's all downhill from here" I can see it both ways, as an easy ride from here on out, or "that's as good as it's ever going to get." Determined by context and if it can't be, to me it was ambiguous (as in, there's not one overarching interpretation)

"Things are going downhill" is an unqualified negative.
posted by jessamyn at 8:17 PM on April 10, 2019

I grew up in Ohio, lived most of my life in the Midwest but am now on the West Coast, and have only heard or understood it as negative.

My husband - not American, not native English speaker, but has lived in various parts of the US - says he has only ever heard it as negative, but could see how it could be interpreted as positive.
posted by sm1tten at 9:13 PM on April 10, 2019

I'm going to put in a vote for the positive. Grew up in the midwest in the 80s/90s. I always picture it as someone climbing a mountain, going through lots of trouble to get where they were going. They get to the top, and the rest is easy.

Or more-so as a downhill skiier. They have to travel to the top, and once they get there, they get to enjoy the downhill.

I can see how it can be construed as a negative, but if I hear it, I think of it as positive first.
posted by hydra77 at 10:40 PM on April 10, 2019

Negative. I've lived in CA my whole life (grew up in SoCal, now live in the Bay Area) and it also never occurred to me that there might be a positive usage.
posted by kiripin at 10:41 PM on April 10, 2019

It is two different expressions for me. "It's all downhill from (t)here," means the hard work is over and you can 'coast' to the end. "Things went downhill from there (or after that)" means something unexpected, and negative, happened. I am from Virginia.
posted by os tuberoes at 11:04 PM on April 10, 2019 [2 favorites]

Definitely 'going south', or 'things are getting bad, and are going to keep going bad'.

Caution: This perspective comes from south of the equator, where we drive in the correct/right side of the road, and the water goes down the plughole just like God intended it.
posted by GeeEmm at 11:32 PM on April 10, 2019 [2 favorites]

New England. It's bad. It never occurred to me till about a month ago that it *could* mean good. And then I used it that way once experimentally and everyone around me said "huh?" because it clearly meant bad.
posted by gideonfrog at 4:13 AM on April 11, 2019 [1 favorite]

Southeast/Midwest.

My first impression was the "smooth sailing" meaning. I had to come read comments to figure out how it could be used in a negative sense.

However, "Things are going downhill" is absolutely the opposite, and I say that, too. But not typically with "...from here" on the end. That's I think what makes the negative connotation not fly with me. You have front-loaded the effort in order to coast after a certain point.

Unless it's like os tuberoes said and there was an unexpected event that screwed everything up. That works, too.
posted by Stewriffic at 5:03 AM on April 11, 2019 [2 favorites]

Positive sometimes, based on context, but usually negative in everyday speech. Often ironic IME.

I grew up in CO, have lived in WY, CA, and DC.

I don't really think most people are confusing it with "things are going downhill" - they're just similar non-literal uses of "downhill."
posted by aspersioncast at 5:06 AM on April 11, 2019

LA as child; NYC as adult — I have always know it as the positive version first and would interpret the negative version (which I had not even considered till this thread!) as a humorous twist.
posted by dame at 10:32 AM on April 11, 2019

west coast, always negative. The first bad thing just happened and the whole situation's going to get worse and worse. Most often used retrospectively, like "then the kids started screaming and it was all downhill from there."
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:36 AM on April 11, 2019

Perth Western Australia here. I never thought it could mean bad. To me the meaning is that you can stop pedaling and coast downhill free and easy.
posted by sconbie at 8:04 PM on April 11, 2019