Growing Pains

April 9, 2019 10:26 PM

A friendship is changing now that I have a better job (and more money) than my friend. Can you offer some perspective?

My friend and I have known each other a long time. We typically have had a strong friendship. A large part of our friendship has been discussing our professional lives and finances with each other. In fact, we met a professionals mixer event. We’ve shared our job woes, possible career paths, perspectives on money, and budgeting goals openly. It’s been healthy and supportive to have these types of discussions so transparently. She and I had similar paths up to this point - painfully underemployed, struggling to make ends meet, feeling low about ourselves and resentful that one’s wage has so much impact on one’s “worth” and health in a capitalist society. We’ve offered each other a lot of support and cheerleading over the years, and our friendship goes far beyond career stuff.

Fairly recently, I leveled up. I have a great job that I love. I make good money. My friend is in the same position as before. I really feel for her; she’s brilliant and hard-working. She takes her job very, very seriously, and would crush a role with more responsibility. I know she’ll get there; I just got there first.

We live in the same city, and spend a lot of time together. Since I started my job, there’s been an imbalance in our conversations. She talks about her job and coworkers a LOT (more than before), and is newly testy and verbally disappointed when I don’t offer feedback in the way she needs or I don’t have a comment for everything she shares. I admire her for stating her needs so clearly, but it’s a lot. Honestly, she needs more attention than I feel I have to give, but I try, because she’s important to me.

When I talk about work, she blows me off in a way she didn’t used to. She’s not interested in hearing my career plans anymore. When I talk about general life plans, her response is essentially that I have unlimited funds so I can do whatever. Which, I wish that were true, but it’s not. My new professional pay IS a lot more money and it IS more than she makes, but I’m still budgeting and planning and doing all the things that we used to enjoy talking about together. I hear her though, because I'm starting to imagine my life not being constantly, exhaustingly limited by having no money, but that's not her reality. I'm careful not to talk about my actual paycheck, but even just basic "hey I bought plane tickets to visit my family" is a reminder that I have money to do those things without the struggle. Finally, my job is stressful; I’m responsible for a LOT and I’m making managerial decisions daily. It would be nice to have a friend to cheer and jeer with at the end of the day. Especially because I had a huge win with getting this job (and I'm doing great!), and I feel like my friend doesn't want to share that with me. I’m talking about my job less and less, and still trying to engage with her about hers.

I feel guilty that I got success first, but I also want my friend to celebrate and support me. It’s an ugly feeling, but sometimes I feel resentful that I will meet her for dinner after juggling high-level work, and she will talk over me about her coworker restocking things incorrectly. I’m starting to feel differently towards her, which is new and scary and makes me feel sad. I hope that she and I have more to our friendship than being on the struggle bus together. Can you offer some perspective? Any stories you have from similar situations would be appreciated.

posted by anonymous to Human Relations (18 answers total)

I hope that she and I have more to our friendship than being on the struggle bus together.

It doesn't sound like that's her take on it right now.

I admire her for stating her needs so clearly, but it’s a lot. Honestly, she needs more attention than I feel I have to give, but I try, because she’s important to me.

You need to reflect that same clarity. Tell her you can't give her this level of attention. Set boundaries of how much you can give her.
posted by RainyJay at 10:46 PM on April 9, 2019

As you've already identified, the thing that bonded you together was struggling to get somewhere at work. Now you're there, she's not, so every time you talk about it, it's a reminder that she's not there and maybe never will be. You're being very considerate in not bringing it up but if you're looking to have more to your friendship that just climbing the corporate ladder, why not talk about things other than your jobs? There's a world of topics out there and so much in life that doesn't revolve around the 9 to 5. Maybe start discussing that or invite her to do a new hobby with you after hours, then you'll have something else in common.
posted by Jubey at 10:49 PM on April 9, 2019 [10 favorites]

sometimes I feel resentful that I will meet her for dinner after juggling high-level work, and she will talk over me about her coworker restocking things incorrectly.

The rest of your question sounds as if you're doing everything you can to make the friendship work, and that she just isn't able to rise yet above the sudden inequality. This is really a major shift in relationships-- it's hard to shift planes like this and stay seamlessly connected.
But that one line might give you some insight into what you can do differently. This is not really a criticism of you -- anyone would get resentful and have the same thought you had -- but if you care about nurturing your friendship, you might choose to examine how often this kind of thought gets communicated. It doesn't matter, in a friendship, if your work problem is "high level" and hers is about "restocking things. " In a friendship the only thing that matters is the feeling associated with the experience. Her coworker doesn't have to be endangering a multi-million dollar account to make her feel frustrated, exhausted, overwhelmed. Respond to the feelings, not the content ,of her job, and share the feelings, not the content, of yours. For a while you might need other friends from your new job to talk about the nitty-gritty details of the actual work. With this friend, for now at least, stick with how these things translate to emotions. (Same with everything: if you want to connect with this friend now, instead of "I bought plane tickets," try "I'm excited to visit my family - I feel like I''ve been missing a lot.") Etc.
posted by nantucket at 11:22 PM on April 9, 2019 [40 favorites]

Since you've been friends for a long time, I think it's worth trying to tell her what you're feeling, framing it in terms of what you've valued from your friendship before and miss now. To be honest, it may or may not work, but the problem certainly won't solve itself, unless she magically gets promoted before her or your resentment spills over.
posted by praemunire at 11:25 PM on April 9, 2019 [1 favorite]

She may, on some level, literally or subconciously, feel like she supported you INTO your success... so now it's your turn to support her as she takes the last steps into hers.
posted by stormyteal at 11:32 PM on April 9, 2019 [5 favorites]

hope that she and I have more to our friendship than being on the struggle bus together.

I did have a friend that all we used to talk about was our struggles. In everything, family, work, love, friendship. I got a bit fed-up of it as we didn't seem to have much fun. Whenever I suggested doing "fun" stuff she was busy with other things but would still ring me up/text me. I also changed my life, I still had lots of issues going on but I saved a lot of it for my therapist and people in a group I went to who could be honest (the friends in the group I also did fun stuff with).

I think I"m talking about that example as I find friendships work better if they are balanced, and you can do some things together that are interesting. It's not that you don't want to support each other (as I think that's what friendship is about too, and sometimes people go through awful things) but I find it helps long-term friendships to do some nice things together. I agree with Jubey - can you talk about other things apart from work or go and do some activity together? I"m not saying never support your friend but it may make you both enjoy each other's company too.
posted by blue_eyes at 4:41 AM on April 10, 2019 [2 favorites]

She was straight and direct with you about what she needs from you as a friend, so do the same with her. Have a candid conversation with her about what’s going on.

But first, I would be careful to examine your blind spots about what’s important versus not. Because this—sometimes I feel resentful that I will meet her for dinner after juggling high-level work, and she will talk over me about her coworker restocking things incorrectly—is not going to help matters. It sounds like you were both on the same page before about the relative difficulties of being a worker in a lower-paid job, being undervalued, underpaid, not having your worth recognized. She may be thinking, Where’s my friend who realized that someone’s job doesn’t define their capability? Her coworker restocking might be just as stressful for her as your “high-level work” is for you, not because she can’t do “high-level work” but because every job can be stressful in its own way. You were just in her position, so I’m sure you can get that...
posted by sallybrown at 4:58 AM on April 10, 2019 [12 favorites]

Can you focus a little on helping her plan for "When you are a manager..." or "How is your plan for advancement going?"
posted by amtho at 5:05 AM on April 10, 2019

Finally, my job is stressful; I’m responsible for a LOT and I’m making managerial decisions daily. It would be nice to have a friend to cheer and jeer with at the end of the day.

It sounds like her job is also stressful right now, perhaps that's why she's disappointed you can't seem to listen to her for very long.

I don’t offer feedback in the way she needs or I don’t have a comment for everything she shares.

Why not?

When I talk about general life plans, her response is essentially that I have unlimited funds so I can do whatever.

However, I'm with you here, this kind of remark is unacceptable in a friendship. Next time she says something like this I would call her out on it.
posted by coffeeand at 5:12 AM on April 10, 2019 [1 favorite]

A lot of friendships can be based on the things you have in common, and when those commonalities change, so does the relationship. I think, from your explanation of the issue, that you both have some changed perspectives of the other, and whether or not your friendship will be the same after this change in life circumstances is up to both of you.

I've found this with friends I had in various jobs, where we'd hang out together after work and catch up all the time, but the main topic was what was going on at work. When one of us changed jobs to go somewhere else, many of those relationships changed and then (sometimes) withered away. It happens, and it's not anyone's "fault," per se, it's just what the friendship turned out to be based on.

So if your friendship was mostly built on being struggle buddies, and that's no longer the case for you, it's understandable that you both may pull away somewhat. But if you'd like the relationship to continue, I'd say that the most work you can do is with your own behavior towards your friend, by finding out from her how she feels (and not assuming) and being open to changing the ways in which you relate.
posted by xingcat at 5:29 AM on April 10, 2019

So you've both had a loss. You were buddies, you were in it together and you could look at each other and say "if this awesome, competent person is also struggling then my struggling is not because I'm unworthy it's just a quirk of life and anyway I'm not alone." Which can be incredibly reassuring. Now your situation has changed, sounds like you're still trying to act out the same roles, and it's a struggle.

It's worth remembering that if you remain friends the tables will likely turn multiple times throughout your lives.

Anyway, talk about it with her.
posted by bunderful at 5:33 AM on April 10, 2019 [1 favorite]

It sounds like your earlier relationship was built on a sense of mutual aid - you shared information, emotional support, budgeting tips that was useful for both of you.

But that solidarity you had was based on shared experiences, of underemployment, lack of money, how worth is built in capitalist society. Now though, you seem to be changing the game a bit - you want her to "celebrate and support" your relative success in what you previously described as a problematic system. She seems to still need troubleshooting, a place to vent, but you are looking at that as "a lot of attention". Your shared expectations of each other are different.

You may want to re-examine where you could provide each other that mutual aid; it doesn't seem likely that defining her current role as lesser than yours, and then asking her to be positive about yours, would lead to that.

Maybe try to ID what you could offer each other on an equal plane, even if you happen to be at different levels in your career.
posted by RajahKing at 6:51 AM on April 10, 2019 [2 favorites]

It’s an ugly feeling, but sometimes I feel resentful that I will meet her for dinner after juggling high-level work, and she will talk over me about her coworker restocking things incorrectly.

That is kind of ugly and dismissive, and I commend you for acknowledging that. It wasn't that long ago that you and she were in similar positions--surely you remember just how frustrating something equivalent to an incorrect restock can be. Your work may be more high-level now, but that doesn't make your struggles more (or less) important than hers. If you've relied on each other as safe places to vent about work, and now you see your concerns as being more important than restock issues or whatever, I guarantee she's picking up on that and she's frustrated, and that frustration is piling on top of whatever resentment and envy she's feeling about your relative positions.

Look, you're always allowed to set boundaries. You say your friend has been direct with you; be direct (and kind and tactful) back. Just realize that that will change the nature of the friendship. If you need more support, ask for it--but that support has to go both ways. And if you don't want to hear about the restock issues, she likely won't want to hear about your high-level problems.

Also, you might want to check yourself when it comes to talking about money. You don't talk about your paycheck, but mentioning that you can buy plane tickets without trouble, etc is a very clear signal of your income. That's obviously a really touchy issue right now.

This sounds like a friendship that was based heavily on mutual empathy, and I'm kind of wondering where that empathy has gone. Imagine your friend writing an Ask like this from her POV. Would it sound anything like, "Friend and I used to be each others' sounding boards, but ever since they got a better job, they talk about the stuff they can afford and they kind of act like my problems aren't that important anymore"?

Any chance you can use your new position to help her now and then? Offer to be a reference, recommend her if you hear of any job openings that would give her a boost, etc?
posted by QuickedWeen at 9:53 AM on April 10, 2019 [8 favorites]

Something I keep coming back to about this question: sometimes when you’re doing work that feels low-level, or that you think doesn’t matter, you get even more stressed out about work troubles because you feel like you’re going through all this stress and problems for something totally unimportant. When you’re doing high-level work, everyone around you accepts that your work is important, your decisions are important, and the stressful events you’re going through are building toward something significant—that your stress is for a larger purpose. Your stress is a down payment on something bigger. Stressing out about a coworker restocking shelves can feel like a complete waste of your time and talent, especially if you’re ambitious. That compounds the stress. There is no saving grace of “at least this is worth the stress.”
posted by sallybrown at 10:02 AM on April 10, 2019 [10 favorites]

Well, I have been your friend, and I can't say the experience had a happy ending for me. Our friendship ultimately did fade out, and I don't think we've been in touch at all over the past year apart from occasionally retweeting each other or clicking a Like on facebook.

It's unclear just how much cheerleading and support you are looking for vs how much she can give. If she can't express any joy for your happiness, that is on her, and it's valid for you to be disappointed. If she can't hear anything about your new job and new responsibilities, again, that is on her, and a friend needs to be able to create some two-way street.

On the other hand, I always tried very hard to celebrate my friend's successes, but it got to a point where it's like, OK, hooray, you got ANOTHER 20K raise just six months after the last one. I literally don't make that much in a year, and also, I haven't seen a doctor in a decade. Can we maybe not throw a party for this right this minute.

It's honestly just really fucking hard and shitty to be a broke, struggling person who is friends with someone who is succeeding and making a lot of money. It shouldn't be, but it is. Our society automatically considers that other person a better, more interesting, more valuable person than us.

And the other person starts to believe it, too, very very quickly.
It’s an ugly feeling, but sometimes I feel resentful that I will meet her for dinner after juggling high-level work, and she will talk over me about her coworker restocking things incorrectly.

She is likely talking over you because she senses that you no longer find her stories as compelling as your own and so she's, you know, pre-empting. It's good that you can identify the ugliness behind this feeling. Just a short time ago she was every bit as interesting as you, and now on a certain level you don't think so anymore.

resentful that one’s wage has so much impact on one’s “worth” and health in a capitalist society.
I don't say this to add to your feelings of guilt around having success "first" (or at all), but: if Capitalism Was Bad when you were struggling, it isn't Good now, because you're not.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:07 AM on April 10, 2019 [11 favorites]

FWIW, when I was a recently promoted manager, I found myself getting irritated with a coworker in another department that became (in my opinion) irrationally irritated by a request I had made to her. As I walked back to my desk, I reflected on what was irritating me that day and then thought about how trivial my concerns would seem to my CEO who was leading a Fortune 100 company. I came to realize that whatever is the most irritating thing to a person is what they are going to complain about, and that my complaints were trivial compared to our CEO. When someone complains to me now, I try to keep that in mind and not trivialize their concerns.
posted by elmay at 10:11 AM on April 10, 2019 [2 favorites]

It is hard when your life changes in a way your friend's doesn't. It's so hard to not read into the things your friend is saying. Where you want to express your joy at visiting your family, she sees bragging about being able to afford plane tickets.

I hope that she and I have more to our friendship than being on the struggle bus together.

From what you've written, this does not seem to be the case. Your friendship was bound in your struggle to budget, get a better job, be taken more seriously (if I'm reading it correctly), etc. And now you don't need to do that as much any more. So my suggestion would be to find other things to bond over. Replace the bond that you had with something new. Not drastically new. For example:

Maybe instead of talking about budgeting in general, talk about cooking more meals at home. Talk about the food instead of the money.

Go to the movies or a similar activity where you can be together but not have to talk.

Identify something she is better at than you, and talk about that.

Good luck.
posted by lyssabee at 2:50 PM on April 10, 2019

Part of what might be hard, I think, could be that the narrative arc of your life at the moment is "I used to be broke but now I'm not." It's not "capitalism is unfair and awful;" it's "wow, money (and / or recognition) are REALLY nice to have." You guys aren't stuck in the same trenches anymore. Given that, I think you might want to really think about what common ground you have. If I compare it to leaving a job and then hanging out with old coworkers, I think the work-related conversation probably should still center (like 75 percent) around "the trenches," because you remember them and she's still in them. But then, what else do you guys have in common? Topics? I wouldn't expect her to commiserate to your new job unless you can relate those struggles to your old ones ("I have a new 'Bob' to deal with now.") But hopefully you can find some common ground to build the next phase of your relationship on.
posted by salvia at 9:57 PM on April 10, 2019