Can we just have this person's car towed?
November 20, 2018 4:28 PM Subscribe
YANML, however: My girlfriend's roommate made felony criminal threats against her. He's in jail right now. He's also in her parking spot - should she have his car towed?
The relevant details:
1) City of Los Angeles, the building is under the Rent Stabilization Ordinance (it's rent controlled, in other words).
2) Girlfriend is on the lease. Roommate is not now, and has never been on the lease. He has never established any financial relationship with the landlord, i.e. he's always paid his rent to my girlfriend.
3) Roommate vandalized her door, broke into her room, and made a series death threats and other threats of physical violence against her. She moved out under duress, she's safe now and he doesn't know where she is staying. All of her things are in storage.
4) Girlfriend has secured a restraining order against this creep.
5) After two weeks of just world-historic bad patrol work by the LAPD, the case finally made it to a detective and the roommate was promptly arrested.
6) Girlfriend is planning to change the lock and give a key to the landlord, but will remain off the premises otherwise.
7) There remains the matter of this guy's car, which is in her parking spot. Can we tow this guy's car without putting girlfriend in any kind of civil or criminal legal liability?
8) I do understand that we should consider whether her safety or other well-being would be impacted by poking the bear here while he's in jail. But she's trying to get an answer to the more narrow question of her own possible liability here.
The relevant details:
1) City of Los Angeles, the building is under the Rent Stabilization Ordinance (it's rent controlled, in other words).
2) Girlfriend is on the lease. Roommate is not now, and has never been on the lease. He has never established any financial relationship with the landlord, i.e. he's always paid his rent to my girlfriend.
3) Roommate vandalized her door, broke into her room, and made a series death threats and other threats of physical violence against her. She moved out under duress, she's safe now and he doesn't know where she is staying. All of her things are in storage.
4) Girlfriend has secured a restraining order against this creep.
5) After two weeks of just world-historic bad patrol work by the LAPD, the case finally made it to a detective and the roommate was promptly arrested.
6) Girlfriend is planning to change the lock and give a key to the landlord, but will remain off the premises otherwise.
7) There remains the matter of this guy's car, which is in her parking spot. Can we tow this guy's car without putting girlfriend in any kind of civil or criminal legal liability?
8) I do understand that we should consider whether her safety or other well-being would be impacted by poking the bear here while he's in jail. But she's trying to get an answer to the more narrow question of her own possible liability here.
Response by poster: Thanks jbenben.
This is basically kind of the advice I was looking for. To be clear, I'm not personally advising this course of action, I'm just sort of trying to help her suss out the things that have come up in trying to get at a course of action, and which are and are not potential options now that she's in a place where she's safe and he doesn't know where she is. If it's straight up a bad idea from a legal standpoint, then it's not even an option. But your other advice is helpful too.
As to his legal standing under RSO in LA, it's proven remarkably difficult to find counsel that will help her with a tenant versus tenant situation between a leaseholder and a non-lease-holding subtenant. There are a million lawyers in LA who do evictions for landlords, but she's gotten a really wide spectrum of advice / unwillingness to handle her case in the tenant vs. tenant context.
posted by kensington314 at 4:48 PM on November 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
This is basically kind of the advice I was looking for. To be clear, I'm not personally advising this course of action, I'm just sort of trying to help her suss out the things that have come up in trying to get at a course of action, and which are and are not potential options now that she's in a place where she's safe and he doesn't know where she is. If it's straight up a bad idea from a legal standpoint, then it's not even an option. But your other advice is helpful too.
As to his legal standing under RSO in LA, it's proven remarkably difficult to find counsel that will help her with a tenant versus tenant situation between a leaseholder and a non-lease-holding subtenant. There are a million lawyers in LA who do evictions for landlords, but she's gotten a really wide spectrum of advice / unwillingness to handle her case in the tenant vs. tenant context.
posted by kensington314 at 4:48 PM on November 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
Agree with jbenben except on the word "resident." I think tenant is the word.
Assuming he's spent more than 30 consecutive nights in the apartment, the scumbag roommate is a tenant, and needs to be legally evicted like one, and his property dispensed with according to landlord-tenant law. I'm not sure how this plays out in the case of a sublet, legal or illegal, as this appears to be-- maybe the girlfriend is the the bozo's landlord. Either way, the landlord needs to serve written notice of eviction within 30 days. Not sure about CA, but some states allow you to expedite this if rent is in arrears. Nevertheless, written notice is required.
Changing the locks before the eviction is complete is potentially illegal! It's not likely to get reported because of the restraining order and perhaps a jail term for the bozo in question, but if the bozo gets bail and your girlfriend locks him out, your girlfriend or the landlord can expect a visit from police.
I understand this is no ordinary eviction, but whether or not your girlfriend's safety concerns, however reasonable, exist, they are not likely to unseat the juggernaut of landlord-tenant law, which is a massive and strict beast because of bad landlords and bad tenants throughout history.
I'd say put this in the landlord's hands, and then pack up the guy's stuff and ready it for removal, but don't change the locks until he's evicted, or you can get a reasonable guarantee from the landlord's lawyer that it's okay to change them.
posted by Sunburnt at 4:51 PM on November 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
Assuming he's spent more than 30 consecutive nights in the apartment, the scumbag roommate is a tenant, and needs to be legally evicted like one, and his property dispensed with according to landlord-tenant law. I'm not sure how this plays out in the case of a sublet, legal or illegal, as this appears to be-- maybe the girlfriend is the the bozo's landlord. Either way, the landlord needs to serve written notice of eviction within 30 days. Not sure about CA, but some states allow you to expedite this if rent is in arrears. Nevertheless, written notice is required.
Changing the locks before the eviction is complete is potentially illegal! It's not likely to get reported because of the restraining order and perhaps a jail term for the bozo in question, but if the bozo gets bail and your girlfriend locks him out, your girlfriend or the landlord can expect a visit from police.
I understand this is no ordinary eviction, but whether or not your girlfriend's safety concerns, however reasonable, exist, they are not likely to unseat the juggernaut of landlord-tenant law, which is a massive and strict beast because of bad landlords and bad tenants throughout history.
I'd say put this in the landlord's hands, and then pack up the guy's stuff and ready it for removal, but don't change the locks until he's evicted, or you can get a reasonable guarantee from the landlord's lawyer that it's okay to change them.
posted by Sunburnt at 4:51 PM on November 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
I can tell you the reason this is hard to get advice on is because it’s the landlord’s right to evict him. Your gf can’t do it. I’m surprised no one has made that crystal clear.
Do not touch his property inside the apartment or in the building parking lot. The landlord must sue for eviction. Is her building owner a member of AAGLA? He can call them for free legal advice as the building’s owner.
posted by jbenben at 4:54 PM on November 20, 2018 [4 favorites]
Do not touch his property inside the apartment or in the building parking lot. The landlord must sue for eviction. Is her building owner a member of AAGLA? He can call them for free legal advice as the building’s owner.
posted by jbenben at 4:54 PM on November 20, 2018 [4 favorites]
In LA (and possibly CA, can’t remember off hand) the roommate established legal tenancy in the apartment after living there for two weeks. The building owner is his landlord. Because he is a legal resident of that address. I know it doesn’t matter at all that he isn’t on the lease. That’s the end of what I am 100% sure about. There is no grey area, and your most expedient way forward is to proceed from this fact.
posted by jbenben at 4:59 PM on November 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by jbenben at 4:59 PM on November 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
Yeah, it's on the landlord to evict him because you let him stay more than a month. Doesn't matter who he gave money to (or if he gave money at all), he became a tenant. Also your girlfriend can't technically change the locks (and the locksmith is probably going to ask if she owns the property), the landlord or their designated property manager has to do that.
Probably up to this point you have tried to avoid having the landlord know the details of this, but you have to. At least she's already working on moving out, because she is also going to get evicted for subletting without permission. This sucks, but the laws are what they are to protect people who might be in a fragile relationship/living situation from being removed as a means of abuse.
Now, towing companies seem to be under protection of some kind of well-organized demonic entity, that is probably the least of your legal problems right now.
posted by Lyn Never at 5:03 PM on November 20, 2018 [3 favorites]
Probably up to this point you have tried to avoid having the landlord know the details of this, but you have to. At least she's already working on moving out, because she is also going to get evicted for subletting without permission. This sucks, but the laws are what they are to protect people who might be in a fragile relationship/living situation from being removed as a means of abuse.
Now, towing companies seem to be under protection of some kind of well-organized demonic entity, that is probably the least of your legal problems right now.
posted by Lyn Never at 5:03 PM on November 20, 2018 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: The landlord is totally in the know, but asking her to do the eviction, and the creep himself changed the locks, which the landlord knows, so that part is mostly a question of getting a usable key to the landlord and regaining control of entry to the place as the leaseholder.
posted by kensington314 at 5:11 PM on November 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by kensington314 at 5:11 PM on November 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
OMG, the landlord knows there's been death threats and he's all, 'but can you call to have the car towed?'
Nope out, man. Hard no.
posted by Dashy at 5:40 PM on November 20, 2018 [3 favorites]
Nope out, man. Hard no.
posted by Dashy at 5:40 PM on November 20, 2018 [3 favorites]
(and I say this as someone who's been a landlord. Those are, like it or not, the risks you assume)
posted by Dashy at 5:41 PM on November 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Dashy at 5:41 PM on November 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Oh yea, landlord has had a copy of the restraining order for like a week, and the death threats a few days before that.
posted by kensington314 at 5:42 PM on November 20, 2018
posted by kensington314 at 5:42 PM on November 20, 2018
Oh dear god, she has no legal agency to do this eviction for him! Is she wanting to move back into the place or is she just trying to do all the right things as she leaves? Because if it's the latter, I'd just walk.
posted by Lyn Never at 5:46 PM on November 20, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by Lyn Never at 5:46 PM on November 20, 2018 [6 favorites]
Based on the fact that she's already moved out and her things are in storage, I think she's done here. I mean, she's not gonna get her security deposit back, but the rest of it is on the landlord.
posted by BlahLaLa at 5:52 PM on November 20, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by BlahLaLa at 5:52 PM on November 20, 2018 [4 favorites]
Yeah, this is... bad. She doesn't actually have the legal authority to evict the roommate, and even if she can get the locks changed, this could backfire on her later if her landlord (who does not seem to be operating in good faith here) turns on her. I'm not a lawyer and I'd advise that if she can't get one to speak to her situation, perhaps there's a tenant advocacy group that can help with definitively declaring what her actual liability is here.
posted by sm1tten at 5:54 PM on November 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by sm1tten at 5:54 PM on November 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
Not just tenant advocacy groups - I'd approach a domestic violence assistance group, who are more likely to be familiar with dangerous roommates.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 6:04 PM on November 20, 2018 [11 favorites]
posted by the agents of KAOS at 6:04 PM on November 20, 2018 [11 favorites]
I am a landlord and an attorney in a state that is not California. If she has moved out and taken her belongings with her already, she should absolutely not change locks, or get the guy's car towed. She is not the owner of the property nor a designated property manager so she does not have the authority to do either of those things; if she does do one of them, the roommate could make bail and validly call the cops on her (or worse). If I were her I would not even touch his stuff inside the place even to box it up, as doing so could expose her to the roommate retaliating by saying she stole something from him or damaged his property in some way.
The landlord is responsible for the cost/hassle of regaining access to the property, evicting the guy, and towing the vehicle if necessary.
She should communicate with the landlord only in writing via certified mail. Send along copies of supporting documentation describing the roommate's conduct, including, if you have them, police report & copy of the restraining order, and a list of significant events that led to this, with dates. In her letter she can tell the landlord whether or not she wants to continue living at this location in the future, but under no circumstances will she come back until the roommate has been legally and permanently evicted, and the landlord has removed all of his property from the residence, as well as changed the locks. If I were her, I would not be hoping to come back and I would let the landlord know that I have permanently vacated.
This kind of blows my mind "the landlord is totally in the know, but asking her to do the eviction" like what kind of idiot is this guy, owning a rent controlled property in LA and thinking this is how it works?? Or: what kind of idiot does he think she is, that she would believe she has the legal ability to evict a roommate in a rent controlled place? Nah.
Unfortunately, she should expect to lose her security deposit in this scenario and walk. Even if her landlord decides to operate in good faith and evict the guy ASAP and wants her to move back in again, it just doesn't seem safe for her to continue to live at an address where the roommate will be able to find her in the future - that's just my opinion.
You would be well served to contact a domestic violence organization and a tenant's rights organization to get more specific local input.
posted by zdravo at 6:19 PM on November 20, 2018 [19 favorites]
The landlord is responsible for the cost/hassle of regaining access to the property, evicting the guy, and towing the vehicle if necessary.
She should communicate with the landlord only in writing via certified mail. Send along copies of supporting documentation describing the roommate's conduct, including, if you have them, police report & copy of the restraining order, and a list of significant events that led to this, with dates. In her letter she can tell the landlord whether or not she wants to continue living at this location in the future, but under no circumstances will she come back until the roommate has been legally and permanently evicted, and the landlord has removed all of his property from the residence, as well as changed the locks. If I were her, I would not be hoping to come back and I would let the landlord know that I have permanently vacated.
This kind of blows my mind "the landlord is totally in the know, but asking her to do the eviction" like what kind of idiot is this guy, owning a rent controlled property in LA and thinking this is how it works?? Or: what kind of idiot does he think she is, that she would believe she has the legal ability to evict a roommate in a rent controlled place? Nah.
Unfortunately, she should expect to lose her security deposit in this scenario and walk. Even if her landlord decides to operate in good faith and evict the guy ASAP and wants her to move back in again, it just doesn't seem safe for her to continue to live at an address where the roommate will be able to find her in the future - that's just my opinion.
You would be well served to contact a domestic violence organization and a tenant's rights organization to get more specific local input.
posted by zdravo at 6:19 PM on November 20, 2018 [19 favorites]
What argument is there *in favor* of her getting the car towed? Why even consider it?
She moved out. She presumably doesn’t need her own spot at this point. Taking several steps back, the situation is: someone who has no legal rights to the spot has parked in the spot that used to be hers. Why would this be her problem to deal with any more than if a random person had parked in the spot at this juncture?
posted by needs more cowbell at 7:04 PM on November 20, 2018 [5 favorites]
She moved out. She presumably doesn’t need her own spot at this point. Taking several steps back, the situation is: someone who has no legal rights to the spot has parked in the spot that used to be hers. Why would this be her problem to deal with any more than if a random person had parked in the spot at this juncture?
posted by needs more cowbell at 7:04 PM on November 20, 2018 [5 favorites]
The landlord is totally in the know, but asking her to do the eviction
It is not her job and not legal for he to do this. I also don't see what is in it for her?
posted by jessamyn at 7:55 PM on November 20, 2018 [5 favorites]
It is not her job and not legal for he to do this. I also don't see what is in it for her?
posted by jessamyn at 7:55 PM on November 20, 2018 [5 favorites]
If he has made death threats against her (omfg), it seems unwise for her to park her car in a location known to him. Why does it matter to her that his car is parked there? If it's an issue with the landlord, they should deal with having the car removed.
posted by defreckled at 8:22 PM on November 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by defreckled at 8:22 PM on November 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
I also remember your previous question. Is she trying to free up the parking space for the remaining (female) roommate? Because that other roommate should have moved out, too.
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:43 PM on November 20, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:43 PM on November 20, 2018 [3 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
No. Do not call yourselves and have the car towed.
I think this is a very bad idea. I remember you, and, I mean... He knows where she lives. He sounds super dangerous. I know finding affordable housing in LA is super difficult, but being injured or worse is absolutely worse.
If the landlord won’t have the vehicle towed, I wouldn’t touch it. Is he going to make bail? What does the detective say to do with his property?
In general you seem to be misinformed about this person’s status as a legal resident. Unless the law changed recently, this person is a legal resident and the building owner must go through the legal process to officially evict him and legally dispose of his property.
He will be red hot when he makes bail and his car is gone. I wouldn’t do it, even if the tow company would agree to take it.
posted by jbenben at 4:39 PM on November 20, 2018 [2 favorites]