Deteriorating relationship between cats
September 1, 2018 7:40 AM   Subscribe

I had three cats, and the oldest one passed away six months ago. The two younger ones were bonded to the oldest, and when he died, their relationship - which was never chummy - slowly deteriorated to the point that one is outright terrified of the other. I've had the youngest for nearly two years so they're not strangers. Both are strictly indoor neutered males with claws intact. There are no other pets.

Here are the two in question. Squeaky is the older one (12) and he is sweet, cuddly and lazy. Spooky (3-ish) is part cat, part Tasmanian devil. He is a territorial, possessive bully who looks sweet when he's asleep. If he wants whatever Squeaky has, he'll intimidate him until he gets it, or if that doesn't work he'll lunge. I've never seen any serious injury. 99% of the time Squeaky runs away immediately, or there's a brief slap fight and then he runs. I have to supervise their feedings or Spooky will eat it all.

However, until the last week I've been able to feed them in the same room, or sit on the couch with one on either side of me. But now Squeaky hides in the closet or under the bed nearly all day and won't eat if he thinks Spooky is in the room (which is what prompted this question). Spooky slept with me last night, and when I got up I found Squeaky hiding behind the couch. Clearly Something Happened in the last few days while I was out or sleeping. Is there any coming back from this? I don't expect them to be snuggly, I just don't want Squeaky to be terrified for the rest of his life. I can separate them so Squeaky gets some peace, but I don't like the idea of leaving him in the bedroom all day.

I know Feliway is often suggested but it's very expensive and I have no income. Anything you suggest will be added to thousands in credit card debt, so I'd like to start with the least expensive options first. Spooky is extremely food motivated, Squeaky is not.
posted by AFABulous to Pets & Animals (13 answers total)
 
That really sucks, and I’m sorry you’re having to deal with it. Also, I’m so sorry for your loss of your older cat. We’ve lost cats, and had some cat interpersonal drama, in our home as well in the past year. It’s hard for everyone involved.

My best idea is to treat it like a new-cat introduction again: separate rooms with no contact for a few days to a week, and spend time with each of them separately to ensure they’re getting attention and love. Then slowly re-introduce them, starting with short visits and building up from there. Try to build positive associations in the other’s presence, using food or pets or whatever they respond to positively. All the “new cat” advice you normally get from a vet or the Internet. ;)

The separation might also just give both cats space to process the loss of the older cat. When we lost an elderly cat last year, our other two each processed it in their own way, and led to a few spats from crankiness. (Not as bad as you’re seeing, though!)

All of the above mostly costs time and inconvenience (which can be bad enough). Unless the brief separation requires you to buy another litter box or something, but hopefully cheaper than Feliway.
posted by fencerjimmy at 8:09 AM on September 1, 2018 [5 favorites]


I'd try reintroducing, and also get Feliway. It can really help and it's worth it. It sounds like Spooky is really grieving and, like most of us, doesn't know how to process that very well.
posted by bile and syntax at 8:29 AM on September 1, 2018 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: Yeah but, the old cat died in March, and although he was cautious, Squeaky wasn't terrified of Spooky until recently. He is even reluctant to be held when we're alone in the bedroom because he can presumably smell/hear Spooky through the door.
posted by AFABulous at 9:44 AM on September 1, 2018


One thing that worked for my younger cat that was seriously irritating the older ones was putting a bird feeder outside a window. It got a lot of birds and squirrels and was something that just riveted his attention which was great because it kept him from bothering the others. I'd also try wearing the younger one out with more playtime.

I wasn't able to do a proper separation/reintroduction of mine because of my housing situation, but I would separate them for a time when my bratty younger one was starting his stuff. And funnily enough, the cats would gather around the bottom of the door and touch paws like long lost loves. Weirdos.

And this is also cheap/free -- you can also put a infant/toddler shirt on the wilder cat. It acts as a Thundershirt but is cheaper. My cat can move just fine, but moves in slow motion wearing it and does not bother the others when he has it on. It's not a safety problem, though. He's climbed to the top of a cat tree wearing it; he just doesn't like having it on so it inhibits some of the nonsense.

And do your cats respond to catnip? That's a lot cheaper than Feliway. There's a catnip spray that's about $3 at Target or Walmart, and my cats love it.
posted by not that mimi at 9:47 AM on September 1, 2018 [6 favorites]


Spooky is aggressive and needs challenges. Get a laser pointer (freecycle.net is great place to look for such things) and as many cat toys as possible. Frequently round up the toys and dole them out. Cats love most any plastic thing they can bat around Hang a barrette or jar lid from a doorknob. Ping pong balls, scratching post, soft toys sprayed with catnip. If he will chew things, get him things to chew. For some portion of every day, confine Spooky for 3 - 4 hours and give old Squeaky a lot of affection and attention. You may still end up having to re-home one of them.
posted by theora55 at 10:17 AM on September 1, 2018


Cats, man. They're wonderful little buddies, but also temperamental AF and do not like change.

Echoing the idea to separate them and manage a slow re-introduction. Also, try to find ways for the younger cat to get his aggression out on something that isn't your older kitty. Play sessions a couple of times a day to tire him out might go a long way towards reducing his aggression.

I don't like the idea of leaving him in the bedroom all day

I get that, I do. But I recently brought in a third kitty who decided she wanted to mark territory where my oldest cat would rest frequently. Usually this happened while I was asleep, so she now gets shut into a room upstairs while I sleep. I don't love it, but I don't really think she's suffering - though she is eager to be let out in the morning.

You may find he feels better being shut in all day than not. Also, have you thought about shutting the younger cat in the bedroom and letting your older cat reclaim some territory?
posted by jzb at 10:20 AM on September 1, 2018 [1 favorite]


Is a new 3rd cat an option? I would recommend getting an older female cat close to Spooky's age that will help wear him out and provide a better companion than your older fellow. Normally 2 males would be an OK mix but I wonder if rather than bonded to the other 2 cat if your recently deceased cat was the dominant one in the house and with the power vacuum the more active one is trying to take control. A female from a multi-cat environment like a feral colony or hording situation might be able to work this whole thing out. There are probably some rescue orgs in your area looking for people to foster older cats that need more people time and less shelter time that could help.

not that girl cats are magic but they have this way of just laying it down and taking control.
posted by fiercekitten at 10:38 AM on September 1, 2018 [1 favorite]


A year ago our old Everybody’s Surrogate Dad cat died, and we’ve seen similar acting-out and attention-seeking from his surviving “wards,” because he literally just spooned and bathed everyone else all day and they got used to it.

I’ll echo the above points about re-introducing and giving the cats a bunch of time apart, and as much one-on-one time with you as is practical. Please also accept my permission not to feel guilty about keeping one guy in a room during the day: this is a species that sleeps ten to twenty hours a day. And if they have a window, it might as well be HBO.

I know it might not be practical to run out and take on a third, but I’ll add anecdata that I’ve seen grieving, bickering male cats act out the whole premise of “Three Men and a Baby” when a younger female joined the clowder. FierceKitten (eponysterical!) is right that girl cats have an odd way of whipping (neutered) males into compliance; a younger cat would also divert your young guy from driving your elder statesman up the wall.

Bribes of catnip and gravy-heavy food may also work diplomatic wonders. Valerian root is also a popular party drug for cats, but it smells like Satan’s farts.
posted by armeowda at 10:55 AM on September 1, 2018 [1 favorite]


Oh: you can also switch up who hangs out in your room and who gets run of the rest of the place. Their smells will stay commingled, which is a big part of how cats determine in-group privileges.
posted by armeowda at 11:06 AM on September 1, 2018 [1 favorite]


Have the vet rule out anything physical. I had this recently with one of my cats, Mr. Chubs. The vet figured he was acting like a jerk because I had moved a few months ago, turns out he had a raging UTI.

And as much as it stinks, I would keep them separated until this is sorted. Cats get super anxious when there's an animal around who wants to hurt them.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 11:11 AM on September 1, 2018 [2 favorites]


I had something similar to this happen when I tried to introduce a male cat to two males. He was very submissive and we worked for six months to try and make things better but nothing did work and we had to return him to the rescue. About six months after that we tried with a young female who was on the bossy side and she settled everybody down. On the other hand acquiring another cat is spending money. For us Feliway and separation never worked, unfortunately.
posted by PussKillian at 2:28 PM on September 1, 2018


Response by poster: To head off any future answers, a third cat is out of the question. I only had three for awhile because Spooky wandered into the apartment building, I couldn't find an owner, and I got attached. I was fully employed at the time. This place is really too small for three, and as I mentioned, I have zero income (and have had virtually none for months).
posted by AFABulous at 2:44 PM on September 1, 2018


We have had a bit of this kicking in: our siblings Jake and Jacqueline are about 3 now and in the last year Jake has been exhibiting more territorial bullying towards her. I think this is mostly about him hitting social maturity. Oddly he doesn't bully Maisie, our youngster; she's less submissive than Jacqueline and doesn't put up with his bullshit.

Things that have helped:
  • Feliway Multi-Cat: maybe? Hard to tell. Certainly doesn't have a magical effect on our guys. We do it anyway. Expensive; six-pack refills from Amazon are cheaper than two-packs from the pet store, but still $$$.
  • Bach Rescue Remedy for pets: another maybe. We put a couple of drops in one of their water dishes; they seem to like it, so if nothing else it encourages them to drink.
  • Group scent: grooming them all with a sock-covered hand to transfer scent between them. Another maybe. They also all get brushed together which I think transfers some scent and tends to be a bonding activity.
  • Feeding them separately. They no longer tolerate being fed in the same room; it visibly stresses them both out. Having multiple kibble stations in multiple rooms so that they can eat without being glared at has helped a lot.
  • Play sessions, for both of them; necessary for Jake also as without some evening play he tends to be a restless night devil. I think also making sure that they both separately get social attention -- petting, talking to them -- helps.
  • Catnip: yep. Nipping him up will often sack him out for a while when he's being a terrible goober.
  • More territorial spots than cats: they tend to compete over the top spot on cat trees, so we have several. Jake's a cave cat so we have multiple covered beds. Helps to reduce HEY GET OUT OF MY SPOT conflicts.
  • Birdseed on the balcony. They'll all sit together and watch doves and pigeons for hours.
It definitely helps Jacqueline that they've established that under-the-sofa and under-the-bed are unambiguously her territory; she has those as safe withdrawal spaces where he won't follow. I think it's also useful to frame this in cat, rather than human, terms. Often when she's napping under the bed it's not because she's cowering in fear; it's because she's chilling in her zone.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 11:34 PM on September 1, 2018 [2 favorites]


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