How to dominate Conversation
February 12, 2006 7:12 AM Subscribe
How can you psychologically gain an upper hand over somebody in conversations ?
There is a person who has always dominated me in group conversations in the past. Like cracking jokes or delivering punch lines. How can I erase past memory and psyche myself to believe that I am equally good at it ? How can I get even ? How can I figure out his weak areas and target those ?
There is a person who has always dominated me in group conversations in the past. Like cracking jokes or delivering punch lines. How can I erase past memory and psyche myself to believe that I am equally good at it ? How can I get even ? How can I figure out his weak areas and target those ?
Here are some ideas:
1. Hold your hand up, as in a gesture of pushing him away / blocking his face, and hold the floor when he tries to interrupt.
2. Make eye contact with him rather than other group members, when talking to the group.
3. I don't know the venue... can you through position / body language split the group down, talk to a smaller subset of which he is excluded?
4. Are you the only one bothered / threatened by it? If her is just being a loud ass, smile and ask him why he is always interrupting you, would he mind waiting his turn, something like that?
5. Try to accept it / change your own frame of reference? eg, how nice Bob is here with us cause he sure helps liven the conversation?
6. Somehow it seems chicks must be involved... is he cutting in on your potential action with his witty repartee?
posted by Meatbomb at 7:27 AM on February 12, 2006
1. Hold your hand up, as in a gesture of pushing him away / blocking his face, and hold the floor when he tries to interrupt.
2. Make eye contact with him rather than other group members, when talking to the group.
3. I don't know the venue... can you through position / body language split the group down, talk to a smaller subset of which he is excluded?
4. Are you the only one bothered / threatened by it? If her is just being a loud ass, smile and ask him why he is always interrupting you, would he mind waiting his turn, something like that?
5. Try to accept it / change your own frame of reference? eg, how nice Bob is here with us cause he sure helps liven the conversation?
6. Somehow it seems chicks must be involved... is he cutting in on your potential action with his witty repartee?
posted by Meatbomb at 7:27 AM on February 12, 2006
Somehow it seems like chicks must be involved...
I had the same thought. In that case, trying to outsmartass someone is probably not the right approach.
If not, what exactly is the problem? Is he picking on you specifically? Do you want to be funnier?
posted by danb at 7:39 AM on February 12, 2006
I had the same thought. In that case, trying to outsmartass someone is probably not the right approach.
If not, what exactly is the problem? Is he picking on you specifically? Do you want to be funnier?
posted by danb at 7:39 AM on February 12, 2006
There are some okay tips in The 48 Laws of Power. There are some fantastic tips in Impro. Read the sections on how actors establish and trade "status."
posted by cribcage at 7:49 AM on February 12, 2006
posted by cribcage at 7:49 AM on February 12, 2006
Response by poster: Its not about chicks. Also, I dont have a problem with anyone else in the group, but at the same time I am not "really close" buddy with anyone ... the problem is compounded coz he is very popular in the group .. so he has more hold or support from the group ..
posted by inquisitive at 7:51 AM on February 12, 2006
posted by inquisitive at 7:51 AM on February 12, 2006
Response by poster: Some body language tips will be helpful .. Also how can I make my tone of voice more authoritative ? Any tips on voice modulation ? Also how can I put on a plastic smile or false laughter convincingly enough ?
posted by inquisitive at 7:54 AM on February 12, 2006
posted by inquisitive at 7:54 AM on February 12, 2006
Ideally, holding one's own in a social situation is favorable enough, as far as seeking approval and satisfaction are concerned. Sometimes that'll entail dominating the conversation, but to actively seek the last word is, frankly, boorish and off-putting. That one person you feel is antagonizing you doesn't run your life - you do. Working harder at being a more engaging participant doesn't mean you need to become a put-down artist. Excuse yourself at a large gathering, and mingle a bit, as most guest do. Then go back later and chat. If they're still there, and seem to self-involved to be inclusive, mingle some more. Chances are, you'll have met a larger number of interesting and enagaing people than you would've if you were struggling to control that initial cluster.
posted by Smart Dalek at 8:04 AM on February 12, 2006
posted by Smart Dalek at 8:04 AM on February 12, 2006
Have you thought about telling him that the jerkstore called, and they are running out of him?
posted by found missing at 8:06 AM on February 12, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by found missing at 8:06 AM on February 12, 2006 [1 favorite]
This is going to backfire on you.
Groups like the one you are describing only have room for one of their type in the group. They may not be the leader but the others instinctively follow them in certain situations.
The best thing you can do here, since you aren't really attached to the group, is move on. Why would you want to hang out with them anyway?
posted by 517 at 8:09 AM on February 12, 2006
Groups like the one you are describing only have room for one of their type in the group. They may not be the leader but the others instinctively follow them in certain situations.
The best thing you can do here, since you aren't really attached to the group, is move on. Why would you want to hang out with them anyway?
posted by 517 at 8:09 AM on February 12, 2006
517 is right. If you try to attack this dude in front of his worshippers, they are gonna hate you. You have to accept the put downs or move on. Many years ago I hung with a group of people that were very agressive and every bit of humor generated by the group was at the expense of someone else in the group. I finally just quit hanging out with those jackasses.
posted by tcobretti at 8:16 AM on February 12, 2006
posted by tcobretti at 8:16 AM on February 12, 2006
I've found that if someone keeps interrupting you while talking that if you just keep right on going that they'll eventually give up. Speak a little louder while you're both talking at once so you can be understood. Do not acknowledge that the other person was attempting to say something. Make sure you have enough to say that you can outlast them.
posted by jewzilla at 8:25 AM on February 12, 2006
posted by jewzilla at 8:25 AM on February 12, 2006
This reminds me of that episode of Seinfeld where George is eating all the shrimp and his collegue says "Hey George the ocean called" etc.
If this person is being rude, I agree with jewzilla, just ignore his interupting.
I would just stay away from most conversations involving this person. Mingle, talk to other people, eventually this person MAY notice your lack of enthusiasm and actually try to have a conversation with you instead of being the center of the conversation. If not you will have made plenty of friends with people who understand having a conversation.
posted by TheLibrarian at 8:36 AM on February 12, 2006
If this person is being rude, I agree with jewzilla, just ignore his interupting.
I would just stay away from most conversations involving this person. Mingle, talk to other people, eventually this person MAY notice your lack of enthusiasm and actually try to have a conversation with you instead of being the center of the conversation. If not you will have made plenty of friends with people who understand having a conversation.
posted by TheLibrarian at 8:36 AM on February 12, 2006
It's all about alpha-male status. Next time he cuts you off, beat the crap out of him in front of all of his friends. They'll recognize you as their new leader and mate with you exclusively. Be sure to eat any children the females may have bore him.
posted by Eamon at 8:59 AM on February 12, 2006 [2 favorites]
posted by Eamon at 8:59 AM on February 12, 2006 [2 favorites]
Short term, you won't overcome your position in this type of group dynamic, at least not in a good way, by taking the direct, forceful approach. You will make it worse. "Getting even" is a bad motivation; bad in the obvious sense, but also bad for your goal -- you will become the jerk. The way you worded your question sounds like you're focused entirely too much on him for you to prevail.
Here's my suggestion: Back off. Change your attitude (it's all you have direct control over). Cheerfully and simply observe the others as they interact. You can learn a lot about them that you might have missed before. If you are asked to contribute, do so, and try not to allow yourself to be interrupted. If it happens, sigh and continue on at a break in the interruption. Keep what you say simple and to the point. Less is more here. You will have time and mental bandwidth to form your thoughts better.
Some people just need to run their mouths because they need attention. Don't be one of them. Say less, listen and think more, then what you do say will be more valuable.
As for him, you may find that he really isn't that bad, that he's just more personally engaging than you. Or maybe he is a king jerk, and you really don't want to take that crown from him and put it on your head. Best to remove the rivalry from your mind so you can see things more objectively and find how your best fit in the group.
posted by mumeishi at 9:11 AM on February 12, 2006
Here's my suggestion: Back off. Change your attitude (it's all you have direct control over). Cheerfully and simply observe the others as they interact. You can learn a lot about them that you might have missed before. If you are asked to contribute, do so, and try not to allow yourself to be interrupted. If it happens, sigh and continue on at a break in the interruption. Keep what you say simple and to the point. Less is more here. You will have time and mental bandwidth to form your thoughts better.
Some people just need to run their mouths because they need attention. Don't be one of them. Say less, listen and think more, then what you do say will be more valuable.
As for him, you may find that he really isn't that bad, that he's just more personally engaging than you. Or maybe he is a king jerk, and you really don't want to take that crown from him and put it on your head. Best to remove the rivalry from your mind so you can see things more objectively and find how your best fit in the group.
posted by mumeishi at 9:11 AM on February 12, 2006
Response by poster: "The best thing you can do here, since you aren't really attached to the group, is move on. Why would you want to hang out with them anyway?"
The problem is I cant avoid this group altogether. I have long associations with most people in the group. They invite me in most of their functions, and I also invite them in most of my family functions. So there are occasions when I have to meet them, whether I like it or not. I cant antagonise the whole group for the sake of one person.
"Make sure you have enough to say that you can outlast them."
I tried that a few times, with some success also. But I noticed that after that when we are all standing together, he would find discreet ways to take the others along with him to a different place on one pretext or the other, leaving me behind alone !! And leaving it upto me to follow them uninvited or to remain isolated.
"Next time he cuts you off, beat the crap out of him in front of all of his friends."
Thats exactly I wanted to know how to do it !!!
posted by inquisitive at 9:16 AM on February 12, 2006
The problem is I cant avoid this group altogether. I have long associations with most people in the group. They invite me in most of their functions, and I also invite them in most of my family functions. So there are occasions when I have to meet them, whether I like it or not. I cant antagonise the whole group for the sake of one person.
"Make sure you have enough to say that you can outlast them."
I tried that a few times, with some success also. But I noticed that after that when we are all standing together, he would find discreet ways to take the others along with him to a different place on one pretext or the other, leaving me behind alone !! And leaving it upto me to follow them uninvited or to remain isolated.
"Next time he cuts you off, beat the crap out of him in front of all of his friends."
Thats exactly I wanted to know how to do it !!!
posted by inquisitive at 9:16 AM on February 12, 2006
Response by poster: I already remain backed off quite often and speak to the point when required. But someone or the other finds ways to involve me in the conversation and then he takes over with his put-down habit.
posted by inquisitive at 9:19 AM on February 12, 2006
posted by inquisitive at 9:19 AM on February 12, 2006
There's not enough information. What kind of group is this? A work group? A social group? What is the point of the group? Are they responsible for brainstorming, problem solving. or are they just talking about books, what? You say you don't know these people well, why? Who are they? In general, how do you do in social interactions? Why are you in this group? Is a boss present to see these interactions? The person who "has the upper hand" -- what exactly are they doing? Are they using insult humor? Are the belittling your contributions? Are they continually interrupting you?
Group dynamics are incredibly complex. I work in a room with 12 other people where we are brainstorming and problem solving constantly. I have experienced a gazilion different kinds of assholes. My survival in my business is dependent on my ability to navigate all the egos and politics. Each situation calls for something different. Although, in general, certain things can work really effectively, depending on the personality of the asshole.
As an example: Some people become bullies by being intellectually superior. I call them "logic monsters" they use "logic" to bully and cow people into doing what they want. These people are often disarmed by being calmly and affectionately pointed toward an emotional truth. IE: The intellectual bully seems to be winning based on sound logic arguments, while the other 11 people are all saying, "It doesn't feel right." My method involves gently touching the arm of the offender, and saying, with great sincerity and gentleness: "I understand what you are saying, Bob, (use his name) but listen to your room, they are all saying they feel differently. These are people you respect, they have never let you down. I'm not saying you are wrong, but maybe there is a middle ground between what you want and what they feel." This usually stops the guy immediately, he will look really perplexed, and maybe make a strangling noise in the back of his throat as his intellectuality crumbles in the face of an eloquent emotional appeal.
That is one situation. Please give much more detail. How to respond and get the upper hand depends on so many factors it's impossible to say what to do based on the thin description you've provided.
posted by generic230 at 9:27 AM on February 12, 2006
Group dynamics are incredibly complex. I work in a room with 12 other people where we are brainstorming and problem solving constantly. I have experienced a gazilion different kinds of assholes. My survival in my business is dependent on my ability to navigate all the egos and politics. Each situation calls for something different. Although, in general, certain things can work really effectively, depending on the personality of the asshole.
As an example: Some people become bullies by being intellectually superior. I call them "logic monsters" they use "logic" to bully and cow people into doing what they want. These people are often disarmed by being calmly and affectionately pointed toward an emotional truth. IE: The intellectual bully seems to be winning based on sound logic arguments, while the other 11 people are all saying, "It doesn't feel right." My method involves gently touching the arm of the offender, and saying, with great sincerity and gentleness: "I understand what you are saying, Bob, (use his name) but listen to your room, they are all saying they feel differently. These are people you respect, they have never let you down. I'm not saying you are wrong, but maybe there is a middle ground between what you want and what they feel." This usually stops the guy immediately, he will look really perplexed, and maybe make a strangling noise in the back of his throat as his intellectuality crumbles in the face of an eloquent emotional appeal.
That is one situation. Please give much more detail. How to respond and get the upper hand depends on so many factors it's impossible to say what to do based on the thin description you've provided.
posted by generic230 at 9:27 AM on February 12, 2006
Response by poster: Mine is not a work group. Its a group of friends. Some of them are my direct friends and others are the friends of my friends. I did not say that I dont know them well .. I said I am not "really close" or the best friend of somebody in the group. When we meet, the group generally gossips or talks in general as a group of friends would do.
Tell me are there any specific ways to put this one person off-balance and make him look awkward in a social situation ? Are there any psychological techniques ?
posted by inquisitive at 9:50 AM on February 12, 2006
Tell me are there any specific ways to put this one person off-balance and make him look awkward in a social situation ? Are there any psychological techniques ?
posted by inquisitive at 9:50 AM on February 12, 2006
I already remain backed off quite often and speak to the point when required. But someone or the other finds ways to involve me in the conversation and then he takes over with his put-down habit.
Okay, but I think you're heading down the wrong road.
Tell me are there any specific ways to put this one person off-balance and make him look awkward in a social situation ? Are there any psychological techniques ?
You might consider that you have the problem. You might consider spending some one-on-one time with this person, and get around to telling him you feel put down by him in the group and would he please be sensitive to that. Or you could seek professional help (to fix you, not him).
If you insist on hurting someone else, then I'd say you should think long and hard about this. Then think some more.
posted by mumeishi at 10:07 AM on February 12, 2006
Okay, but I think you're heading down the wrong road.
Tell me are there any specific ways to put this one person off-balance and make him look awkward in a social situation ? Are there any psychological techniques ?
You might consider that you have the problem. You might consider spending some one-on-one time with this person, and get around to telling him you feel put down by him in the group and would he please be sensitive to that. Or you could seek professional help (to fix you, not him).
If you insist on hurting someone else, then I'd say you should think long and hard about this. Then think some more.
posted by mumeishi at 10:07 AM on February 12, 2006
No, there are no secret psychological techniques.
The point of what everyone is saying is that you're focusing on the wrong thing. Your social status in the group is low compared to his and he preserves his dominance over you with putdowns and the like. Very middle school. Like in middle school, nothing you do or say can perform the reverse of what he does, because it will be to him from you rather than to you from him. He's bartering in coolness, the 'wit' or whatever is just an artifact of his status.
Try to form better relationships with those in the group who aren't too close to him, so you feel more on home turf.
posted by Firas at 10:23 AM on February 12, 2006
The point of what everyone is saying is that you're focusing on the wrong thing. Your social status in the group is low compared to his and he preserves his dominance over you with putdowns and the like. Very middle school. Like in middle school, nothing you do or say can perform the reverse of what he does, because it will be to him from you rather than to you from him. He's bartering in coolness, the 'wit' or whatever is just an artifact of his status.
Try to form better relationships with those in the group who aren't too close to him, so you feel more on home turf.
posted by Firas at 10:23 AM on February 12, 2006
This guy, for whatever reason, does not like you. Some people will just react negatively for no reason. But it is clear that he does not like you because he is unconsciously trying to win some weird battle. This explains why he cannot tolerate other people engaging with you. There are a few things you can do. One would be to pretend you have no idea what he is doing. Always greet him with extra cheerfulness. “Hey, Bob! Good to see you! How’s it going?” Find something he likes to do, clip an article out on it, and next time you see him, say, “Hey I got some information for you on that fishing lodge in Canada. You would love it there.” This is not the same as being obsequious, since you are NOT seeking his approval. You don’t give a shit about his approval. This is you, being really, really nice to irritate the shit out of him.
Say you do clip an article, and give it to him and he looks at you dumfounded, maybe even sneers slightly, you step it up again, saying, “No thank you’s necessary, the expression of joy on your face is enough.” And don’t say it sarcastic or nasty, say it completely genuine. As if the happy expression really is enough. The key for you is to make it all seem like it’s rolling off your back. you're just a happy-go-lucky guy who is beloved by all.
With the walking away thing, or pulling people away, I suggest this: When you see him approaching, drink your beverage down, so it's low. And when he arrives, say: “Oh, Bob, thank god, I was running out of empty conversation, you take it from here.” Turn to the person you were talking with and ask if you can get them a refill. Holding your own cup up, as evidence that you are low and were going to get a refill for yourself. Before crossing away, touch the person you were talking to on the shoulder, say, "it was good talking to you." Or something like that. You want to let the person you were talking to know that you like them, that you're not an asshole. After that, cross away. Go immediately to another klatch of people. When moving to the other klatch, enter with a smile, ask if you can get them refills on drinks. Laugh. You should look like you are completely enjoying yourself and have no idea about anything that’s happening with you and Bob.
All this is to flush him out. When people hate you they hate even worse that you don’t give a shit. The point of this is to make his stealth campaign go public. This kind of thing might piss him off enough that he will work harder to dismiss and insult you. This is a good thing, because what you want is for HIM to look like an asshole. You want to force his hand. You want to make him work harder to make his point. So hard that it becomes clear to everyone else. Right now, it sounds like he’s doing it at a low enough level that it is escaping everyone else. Anything you do to go harder at him, will make you look like the asshole. The key is flushing him out.
Please keep in mind that you need to me completely calm and sound genuine. There is a danger, when doing this sort of thing, of you just looking like an asshole.
There is a second way to go here. I make no judgments about either way, but this second way has also worked very well for me. Observe Bob, speak with him when you can, ask personal questions. I find that many people will respond to really good, unusual questions about their lives. IE: At work, there was a guy who was a know it all. I determined (for the hell of it, I guess) to find something to "love" about this man. I began to ask questions about his life. His father had abondoned them, and at the age of 9, he took on the responsibility of being "the man of the family". He had two sisters and his mother. I was able to see this little 9 year old boy who felt responsible for taking care of his family. I loved him for that. I admired him for taking on such a job at such a young age. He returned those sentiments, and we worked very well together. He did not become my friend. But, at work, he was an ally.
It's up to you. Good luck
posted by generic230 at 10:28 AM on February 12, 2006
Say you do clip an article, and give it to him and he looks at you dumfounded, maybe even sneers slightly, you step it up again, saying, “No thank you’s necessary, the expression of joy on your face is enough.” And don’t say it sarcastic or nasty, say it completely genuine. As if the happy expression really is enough. The key for you is to make it all seem like it’s rolling off your back. you're just a happy-go-lucky guy who is beloved by all.
With the walking away thing, or pulling people away, I suggest this: When you see him approaching, drink your beverage down, so it's low. And when he arrives, say: “Oh, Bob, thank god, I was running out of empty conversation, you take it from here.” Turn to the person you were talking with and ask if you can get them a refill. Holding your own cup up, as evidence that you are low and were going to get a refill for yourself. Before crossing away, touch the person you were talking to on the shoulder, say, "it was good talking to you." Or something like that. You want to let the person you were talking to know that you like them, that you're not an asshole. After that, cross away. Go immediately to another klatch of people. When moving to the other klatch, enter with a smile, ask if you can get them refills on drinks. Laugh. You should look like you are completely enjoying yourself and have no idea about anything that’s happening with you and Bob.
All this is to flush him out. When people hate you they hate even worse that you don’t give a shit. The point of this is to make his stealth campaign go public. This kind of thing might piss him off enough that he will work harder to dismiss and insult you. This is a good thing, because what you want is for HIM to look like an asshole. You want to force his hand. You want to make him work harder to make his point. So hard that it becomes clear to everyone else. Right now, it sounds like he’s doing it at a low enough level that it is escaping everyone else. Anything you do to go harder at him, will make you look like the asshole. The key is flushing him out.
Please keep in mind that you need to me completely calm and sound genuine. There is a danger, when doing this sort of thing, of you just looking like an asshole.
There is a second way to go here. I make no judgments about either way, but this second way has also worked very well for me. Observe Bob, speak with him when you can, ask personal questions. I find that many people will respond to really good, unusual questions about their lives. IE: At work, there was a guy who was a know it all. I determined (for the hell of it, I guess) to find something to "love" about this man. I began to ask questions about his life. His father had abondoned them, and at the age of 9, he took on the responsibility of being "the man of the family". He had two sisters and his mother. I was able to see this little 9 year old boy who felt responsible for taking care of his family. I loved him for that. I admired him for taking on such a job at such a young age. He returned those sentiments, and we worked very well together. He did not become my friend. But, at work, he was an ally.
It's up to you. Good luck
posted by generic230 at 10:28 AM on February 12, 2006
Also, if techniques is what you want, we'll need concrete examples of interactions. But 'comebacks' to insults, some people are good at it, some not, and it's hard to move from the latter to the former.
This is a self-esteem & ego problem, not a 'how to converse' problem, right? Think about it.
posted by Firas at 10:29 AM on February 12, 2006
This is a self-esteem & ego problem, not a 'how to converse' problem, right? Think about it.
posted by Firas at 10:29 AM on February 12, 2006
Response by poster: You might consider spending some one-on-one time with this person, and get around to telling him you feel put down by him in the group and would he please be sensitive to that.
That will convince him beyond doubt of his stranglehold over me and encourage him even more. I dont want to do this. Now, at least, he is in some doubt, as I have been able to get the better of him in some rare occasions.
If you insist on hurting someone else, then I'd say you should think long and hard about this. Then think some more.
But its only in reaction to what he does to me. I dont have any ill intentions otherwise, but I dont want to become his favorite whipping boy. I cant take it all the time without giving some back. I need to teach him some discreet lessons so that he does not take me for granted. I dont have problems with others in the group, but in the company of this person, their body language shows they are on his side. But I do think the others can be won over, if only I take care of this one person.
Try to form better relationships with those in the group who aren't too close to him, so you feel more on home turf.
I will try doing that ..
posted by inquisitive at 10:33 AM on February 12, 2006
That will convince him beyond doubt of his stranglehold over me and encourage him even more. I dont want to do this. Now, at least, he is in some doubt, as I have been able to get the better of him in some rare occasions.
If you insist on hurting someone else, then I'd say you should think long and hard about this. Then think some more.
But its only in reaction to what he does to me. I dont have any ill intentions otherwise, but I dont want to become his favorite whipping boy. I cant take it all the time without giving some back. I need to teach him some discreet lessons so that he does not take me for granted. I dont have problems with others in the group, but in the company of this person, their body language shows they are on his side. But I do think the others can be won over, if only I take care of this one person.
Try to form better relationships with those in the group who aren't too close to him, so you feel more on home turf.
I will try doing that ..
posted by inquisitive at 10:33 AM on February 12, 2006
Response by poster: Right now, it sounds like he’s doing it at a low enough level that it is escaping everyone else.
Correct. But at the same time, I am not sure if he harbors bad intentions about me. He may be doing this just for fun or out of habit ... but nonetheless, makes me look awkward and spoils the party for me.
posted by inquisitive at 10:49 AM on February 12, 2006
Correct. But at the same time, I am not sure if he harbors bad intentions about me. He may be doing this just for fun or out of habit ... but nonetheless, makes me look awkward and spoils the party for me.
posted by inquisitive at 10:49 AM on February 12, 2006
Sigh. If you are over, say, fifteen years old, then I still think you should look carefully at yourself and forget about "taking care of this one person." If you're 15 or under, then playground rules are something like "punch him out and everyone'll respect you."
Here's a "technique" for you: walk up to him alone, or call him, or have a carrier pigeon deliver a note, either way sit him down, buy him a beverage and talk. Like normal people. Crap, it isn't that tough. "Hey, wanna get some food?" or something totally insane like "Hey, man, let me buy you a burger." Then act like normal adults and talk to him.
their body language shows they are on his side. But I do think the others can be won over, if only I take care of this one person.
Here's a secret you you: at least even money says they're on his side because they like him better, and you're just jealous of him. So, what I'm telling you is that this pissing contest that you're losing is in your mind. You need to chill out.
Another secret: Learn to laugh at yourself. It really takes the wind out of anyone else who might. It's called disarming your opponent. (It's also called growing up and not taking yourself so seriously.)
Bonus secret: keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Why? Because (a) you can keep an eye on them, learn their weaknesses, and all that, but also (b) you may find that your enemy is really your friend, once you get to know them better. What's keeping this from happening is YOU.
posted by mumeishi at 11:12 AM on February 12, 2006
Here's a "technique" for you: walk up to him alone, or call him, or have a carrier pigeon deliver a note, either way sit him down, buy him a beverage and talk. Like normal people. Crap, it isn't that tough. "Hey, wanna get some food?" or something totally insane like "Hey, man, let me buy you a burger." Then act like normal adults and talk to him.
their body language shows they are on his side. But I do think the others can be won over, if only I take care of this one person.
Here's a secret you you: at least even money says they're on his side because they like him better, and you're just jealous of him. So, what I'm telling you is that this pissing contest that you're losing is in your mind. You need to chill out.
Another secret: Learn to laugh at yourself. It really takes the wind out of anyone else who might. It's called disarming your opponent. (It's also called growing up and not taking yourself so seriously.)
Bonus secret: keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Why? Because (a) you can keep an eye on them, learn their weaknesses, and all that, but also (b) you may find that your enemy is really your friend, once you get to know them better. What's keeping this from happening is YOU.
posted by mumeishi at 11:12 AM on February 12, 2006
I would suggest a book: The Gentle Art of Verbal Self-Defense by Suzette Haden Elgin.
posted by Jeanne at 11:13 AM on February 12, 2006
posted by Jeanne at 11:13 AM on February 12, 2006
Correct. But at the same time, I am not sure if he harbors bad intentions about me. He may be doing this just for fun or out of habit ... but nonetheless, makes me look awkward and spoils the party for me.
So what if you win? You'll be that jerk. You don't even know if he's doing it intentionally. Your "friends" like him better. Guess what? Maybe they like him better because he isn't obsessed with "taking care of that one person." So you want to put him in his place? Sheesh. What if you throw a party and no one shows up? Way to go, smart guy.
How about making yourself more likeable? Not by crushing the other kids, but by BEING MORE LIKEABLE.
posted by mumeishi at 11:18 AM on February 12, 2006
So what if you win? You'll be that jerk. You don't even know if he's doing it intentionally. Your "friends" like him better. Guess what? Maybe they like him better because he isn't obsessed with "taking care of that one person." So you want to put him in his place? Sheesh. What if you throw a party and no one shows up? Way to go, smart guy.
How about making yourself more likeable? Not by crushing the other kids, but by BEING MORE LIKEABLE.
posted by mumeishi at 11:18 AM on February 12, 2006
I somehow manage to find myself in similar situations, inquisitive. I'm a mild mannered soul so for some reason that makes the social sharks circle me like a bloody piece of meat in the water. Though getting even is tempting it's not really what you want - ideally you want just a normal level of respect. So here are 2 tricks I use, hope they help:
The long slow stare: when someone makes a rude remark you just look at them quizzically. Just allow a few awkward beats to pass in order for everyone to soak in the moment and appreciate what an asshole the other person is being. I like this one bc it doesn't require me to think on my feet at all. Then I just start talking about something else.
Of course this doesn't work if everyone else is laughing already at a witty remark made at my expense! In that situation I put a look of mock anguish on my face and say "I wish I was as cool as you!" It's funny bc it's true but it also points out how junior high the whole situation is.
The key to making this work is that you have to relinquish any lingering desire to actually BE cool. My life became easier once I realized I was inherently a dork and came to terms with it.
posted by selfmedicating at 11:24 AM on February 12, 2006
The long slow stare: when someone makes a rude remark you just look at them quizzically. Just allow a few awkward beats to pass in order for everyone to soak in the moment and appreciate what an asshole the other person is being. I like this one bc it doesn't require me to think on my feet at all. Then I just start talking about something else.
Of course this doesn't work if everyone else is laughing already at a witty remark made at my expense! In that situation I put a look of mock anguish on my face and say "I wish I was as cool as you!" It's funny bc it's true but it also points out how junior high the whole situation is.
The key to making this work is that you have to relinquish any lingering desire to actually BE cool. My life became easier once I realized I was inherently a dork and came to terms with it.
posted by selfmedicating at 11:24 AM on February 12, 2006
I'm guessing there is a cultural element to the interactions that some of the respondants here are not sensing. You are interacting with a male group in a social setting where "face" is all important. This is unfortunate because most of the "newer" techniques described above don't go down well in that circumstance. This person has status and maintains it with his mild bullying tactics. For some reason you feel singled out by him.
My guess is that he is doing it to more than one person, so my first step would be to carefully observe the others and see where you can make strategic allies, then get them on your side with offers of help, support, wgatever works in that enviornment. It may be as simple as strongly complimenting their point of view.
Secondly, you should feel flattered that he has targetted you in this way as there is something about you that he clearly feels threatened by. Do you earn more?, look better?, are you younger?, have a prettier wife?, whatever the reason find it. Because that will be his weak spot. And yes, there is an element of playground behaviour but once you have found what the X factor is, annoy the hell out of him by using it. This will NOT get you more friends, but you clearly would sacrifice this to "get back" at this little dictator.
What are the other elements in your social group which will give you more status, money, job, fast car, work on those as the longer term strategies.
Smile more when he is doing this (try imagining him dressed in a baby's diapers!) or say to yourself everytime he starts something "X is a dickhead" keep it up in your mind until he finishes. Then say, "sorry, I was miles away, thinking of my new car, job, stunning girl, did you say something?"
posted by Wilder at 11:42 AM on February 12, 2006
My guess is that he is doing it to more than one person, so my first step would be to carefully observe the others and see where you can make strategic allies, then get them on your side with offers of help, support, wgatever works in that enviornment. It may be as simple as strongly complimenting their point of view.
Secondly, you should feel flattered that he has targetted you in this way as there is something about you that he clearly feels threatened by. Do you earn more?, look better?, are you younger?, have a prettier wife?, whatever the reason find it. Because that will be his weak spot. And yes, there is an element of playground behaviour but once you have found what the X factor is, annoy the hell out of him by using it. This will NOT get you more friends, but you clearly would sacrifice this to "get back" at this little dictator.
What are the other elements in your social group which will give you more status, money, job, fast car, work on those as the longer term strategies.
Smile more when he is doing this (try imagining him dressed in a baby's diapers!) or say to yourself everytime he starts something "X is a dickhead" keep it up in your mind until he finishes. Then say, "sorry, I was miles away, thinking of my new car, job, stunning girl, did you say something?"
posted by Wilder at 11:42 AM on February 12, 2006
This doesn't answer your question, but I read this passage in one of Montaigne's essays last night and think his complaint about himself somewhat resembles your own situation; i.e., your problem is a perennial one.
"I do not know how to please, or delight, or tickle; the best story in the world dries up in my hands and becomes dull. I do not know how to speak except in earnest and I am totally lacking in that facility, which I observe in many of my acquaintances, of entertaining the first comers and keeping a whole company interested, or tirelessly amusing the ear of a prince with all sorts of talk, never lacking matter, because of the talent they have for being able to make use of the first thing that comes to hand and for accomodating it to the humor and capacity of those with whom they have to do. Princes do not much like earnest discussions, nor I to tell stories. The first and easiest arguments, which are commonly the best received, I do not know how to employ ...." --- Michel de Montaigne, "On Presumption."
posted by jayder at 12:10 PM on February 12, 2006
"I do not know how to please, or delight, or tickle; the best story in the world dries up in my hands and becomes dull. I do not know how to speak except in earnest and I am totally lacking in that facility, which I observe in many of my acquaintances, of entertaining the first comers and keeping a whole company interested, or tirelessly amusing the ear of a prince with all sorts of talk, never lacking matter, because of the talent they have for being able to make use of the first thing that comes to hand and for accomodating it to the humor and capacity of those with whom they have to do. Princes do not much like earnest discussions, nor I to tell stories. The first and easiest arguments, which are commonly the best received, I do not know how to employ ...." --- Michel de Montaigne, "On Presumption."
posted by jayder at 12:10 PM on February 12, 2006
Are you the primary target for his put-downs (think about it before automatically answering 'yes')? If so, maybe he feels threatened by you and therefore targets you rather than others (who you believe to be more sycophantic based on your post).
It sounds like you have better luck being rid of this person rather than repositioning him in your "herd"; there have been a number of points raised above that can help in achieving that, but the likelihood of a backfire seems high to me.
Then again, I believe you are putting too much weight into this, I'm sure there are better places for you to focus your energy.
posted by lowlife at 12:56 PM on February 12, 2006
It sounds like you have better luck being rid of this person rather than repositioning him in your "herd"; there have been a number of points raised above that can help in achieving that, but the likelihood of a backfire seems high to me.
Then again, I believe you are putting too much weight into this, I'm sure there are better places for you to focus your energy.
posted by lowlife at 12:56 PM on February 12, 2006
I am someone who talks a lot, occaisionally goes on a bad streak of interrupting others, and has been guilty of dominating the conversation (or joining with another conversation-dominator to set up a dialogue that effectively shuts other people out). I don't like this about myself, but I know how easy it can be for some people to fall into this way of relating. Even easier for those who unreservedly enjoy dominating others.
But I'm also easily cowed by those who seem self-confident, witty, etc. in a group setting, and have felt like I've been in your shoes before. So I'm very sympathetic.
One thing you're hearing over and over again here is that as long as the focus is on beating this guy (I'll call him "Guy" for the sake of the discussion), you are playing a game which Guy has long won. It's not that you can't win it, but if you're seen to be doing so, the fact is that people may well be made uncomfortable. And the odds are still high that Guy'll employ his large degree of comfort to maintain the status quo.
So, that's why there's a lot of advice about walking away. But, you've made clear that you want to be able to stay in the group. One strategy for making things better is focusing almost exclusively on other people and their needs. In conversation in this group, your role might best be to elicit thoughts and contributions from others (not Guy). Turn all conversations to the interests & life of others. Remain quiet about your own stories, etc. If Guy insists on stealing focus from other people's responses, they will (if they haven't already), come to see him as an irritant.
For your own part, you can re-approach your attitude toward Guy: at the moment, you are seeing him as dominant, which reinforces his dominance. But that's only if you're insistent on thinking of conversation as a performance. If conversation is an exchange of thoughts, ideas, and a chance to find out what's going on with your friends, then he is a failure, a crashing bore who only knows how to turn the spotlight on himself. Consider the mantra, "Guy is a pain in the ass, but one we all just have to deal with." Other people probably feel this way, but they just don't know it. Work to compensate for his social immaturity by attending to others, and (this is the tough part) in time you'll become much more valued by this group than he.
Good luck!
posted by BT at 12:57 PM on February 12, 2006
But I'm also easily cowed by those who seem self-confident, witty, etc. in a group setting, and have felt like I've been in your shoes before. So I'm very sympathetic.
One thing you're hearing over and over again here is that as long as the focus is on beating this guy (I'll call him "Guy" for the sake of the discussion), you are playing a game which Guy has long won. It's not that you can't win it, but if you're seen to be doing so, the fact is that people may well be made uncomfortable. And the odds are still high that Guy'll employ his large degree of comfort to maintain the status quo.
So, that's why there's a lot of advice about walking away. But, you've made clear that you want to be able to stay in the group. One strategy for making things better is focusing almost exclusively on other people and their needs. In conversation in this group, your role might best be to elicit thoughts and contributions from others (not Guy). Turn all conversations to the interests & life of others. Remain quiet about your own stories, etc. If Guy insists on stealing focus from other people's responses, they will (if they haven't already), come to see him as an irritant.
For your own part, you can re-approach your attitude toward Guy: at the moment, you are seeing him as dominant, which reinforces his dominance. But that's only if you're insistent on thinking of conversation as a performance. If conversation is an exchange of thoughts, ideas, and a chance to find out what's going on with your friends, then he is a failure, a crashing bore who only knows how to turn the spotlight on himself. Consider the mantra, "Guy is a pain in the ass, but one we all just have to deal with." Other people probably feel this way, but they just don't know it. Work to compensate for his social immaturity by attending to others, and (this is the tough part) in time you'll become much more valued by this group than he.
Good luck!
posted by BT at 12:57 PM on February 12, 2006
I have to second Jeanne on Suzette Haden Elgin's The Gentle Art of Verbal Self-Defense. The moment I saw your question, I knew you needed this book -- but I couldn't remember the title, and thought the author was Suzanne.
Back on-topic, though, this is exactly what the book was written for. I've read it a couple of times; I have no doubt that if you internalize the strategies, you can do amazing things to your conversations and relationships -- and the other people won't even realize how you've gotten the upper hand.
Don't get the spinoffs -- ...at Work, ...with Kids, ...Workbook, whatever. Go for the original, even if you have to get a used copy. I am far, far from even journeyman level, but this book really changed how I view all interpersonal dynamics.
posted by booksandlibretti at 1:51 PM on February 12, 2006
Back on-topic, though, this is exactly what the book was written for. I've read it a couple of times; I have no doubt that if you internalize the strategies, you can do amazing things to your conversations and relationships -- and the other people won't even realize how you've gotten the upper hand.
Don't get the spinoffs -- ...at Work, ...with Kids, ...Workbook, whatever. Go for the original, even if you have to get a used copy. I am far, far from even journeyman level, but this book really changed how I view all interpersonal dynamics.
posted by booksandlibretti at 1:51 PM on February 12, 2006
I've always found boredom to work, I think because it's a healthier emotion than jealousy. This group isn't pleasing you, there are more fun things you could be doing, so allow boredom to kick in a little, at least while you're being picked on.
There's this sort of like leaning back while laughing, looking around for something else interesting mannerism that's effective. Also patting the shoulder and going "good one". Or if he starts to light into you, interrupting him with "here we go!" or something that makes this group conscious that this guy's putting on a performance.
Really though I think you just have to take a deep breath and be okay with yourself and things will follow naturally from that.
posted by fleacircus at 2:22 PM on February 12, 2006
There's this sort of like leaning back while laughing, looking around for something else interesting mannerism that's effective. Also patting the shoulder and going "good one". Or if he starts to light into you, interrupting him with "here we go!" or something that makes this group conscious that this guy's putting on a performance.
Really though I think you just have to take a deep breath and be okay with yourself and things will follow naturally from that.
posted by fleacircus at 2:22 PM on February 12, 2006
Sounds like you're dealing with a major Invalidator to me -- read Nasty People by Jay Carter. Incidentally, StickyCarpet, the author says Hitler was a prime example of this type.
posted by Rash at 2:32 PM on February 12, 2006
posted by Rash at 2:32 PM on February 12, 2006
Here is some REALLY simple advice. I know it will work for you.
1) Don't engage. This B.S. is really below your personal standard. (Even if it isn't, go along with the idea.)
2) When he starts his "performance" make brief but meaningful eye contact with those around you.
3) Why? Because nobody enjoys this kind of behavior, but most tolerate it for the sake of politeness. You'll find that those with whom you do make eye contact are internally wincing at his remarks.
I do this with complete strangers, if I have to, and it always works: Eye contact brings me into the fold without ever saying a word. Sometimes not speaking is the best (better to have them think you're a fool than to speak up and prove it) Eye contact makes you feel more confident thus making you more able to quip, if needed, in the future! Good luck and kick some ass!
posted by snsranch at 3:56 PM on February 12, 2006
1) Don't engage. This B.S. is really below your personal standard. (Even if it isn't, go along with the idea.)
2) When he starts his "performance" make brief but meaningful eye contact with those around you.
3) Why? Because nobody enjoys this kind of behavior, but most tolerate it for the sake of politeness. You'll find that those with whom you do make eye contact are internally wincing at his remarks.
I do this with complete strangers, if I have to, and it always works: Eye contact brings me into the fold without ever saying a word. Sometimes not speaking is the best (better to have them think you're a fool than to speak up and prove it) Eye contact makes you feel more confident thus making you more able to quip, if needed, in the future! Good luck and kick some ass!
posted by snsranch at 3:56 PM on February 12, 2006
If he's trying to marginalize you, be marginalized. I hate to tell you to act above the group, but act indifferent. He only holds power as long as you feel that status within the group is important. If you make it clear that you have your own aspirations outsiden the group and other social groups you feel are equally or more important, then it doesn't matter.
posted by mikeh at 4:35 PM on February 12, 2006
posted by mikeh at 4:35 PM on February 12, 2006
I always practice what I call Stoner Sundays. I get up superearly and before noon I go to yoga, do some shopping at the Whole Foods, get coffee, and eat breakfast. On the way home I get a newspaper, go home, burn, read the paper, watch bad tv, and just relax. Usually in the early evening my best friend calls me and after that I watch Grey's Anatomy.
I work really hard throughout the week and Saturdays are so crazy with errands and family obligations that I don't feel guilty about spending Sundays the way I do. I find the me-time and relaxation to be very therapeutic.
posted by superkim at 5:43 PM on February 12, 2006
I work really hard throughout the week and Saturdays are so crazy with errands and family obligations that I don't feel guilty about spending Sundays the way I do. I find the me-time and relaxation to be very therapeutic.
posted by superkim at 5:43 PM on February 12, 2006
I am not sure if he harbors bad intentions about me.
If you don't know, what's wrong with just pulling him aside and talking to him about it?
"Listen, I don't know whether you've noticed, but some of these things I'm sure you've just been saying in good fun have been making me rather uncomfortable. *examples* I'd really appreciate if you didn't put me down like that."
From his response you should at least be able to determine his intentions.
posted by juv3nal at 8:21 PM on February 12, 2006
If you don't know, what's wrong with just pulling him aside and talking to him about it?
"Listen, I don't know whether you've noticed, but some of these things I'm sure you've just been saying in good fun have been making me rather uncomfortable. *examples* I'd really appreciate if you didn't put me down like that."
From his response you should at least be able to determine his intentions.
posted by juv3nal at 8:21 PM on February 12, 2006
To me the tricky part seems to be how will you know if you succeeded?
If it is because he will react differently, then he can always win, because he will realize that you are looking for his "negative approval".
If it is because the group will treat you differently, then again you can't win because they've already gotten used to a particular way of being, and it is not really under your control to change them.
If it is because you will feel differently, then you stand a chance. What he/they do isn't under your control. But how you interpret, react and feel about it is up to you.
I am guessing you are (unconsciously) reacting to him right now in a way that encourages him to continue. If you truly don't care about him then it will come out, and he will not get the response he seeks anymore. But more importantly you will be in a place of really not caring about him, which is much better than getting the "upper hand".
A certain martial art technique I use if I ever truly feel threatened is the "face of death". It is a completely blank stare that basically conveys that you will do whatever it takes. It works wonders at avoiding situations you don't want to happen.
posted by blueyellow at 10:11 PM on February 12, 2006
If it is because he will react differently, then he can always win, because he will realize that you are looking for his "negative approval".
If it is because the group will treat you differently, then again you can't win because they've already gotten used to a particular way of being, and it is not really under your control to change them.
If it is because you will feel differently, then you stand a chance. What he/they do isn't under your control. But how you interpret, react and feel about it is up to you.
I am guessing you are (unconsciously) reacting to him right now in a way that encourages him to continue. If you truly don't care about him then it will come out, and he will not get the response he seeks anymore. But more importantly you will be in a place of really not caring about him, which is much better than getting the "upper hand".
A certain martial art technique I use if I ever truly feel threatened is the "face of death". It is a completely blank stare that basically conveys that you will do whatever it takes. It works wonders at avoiding situations you don't want to happen.
posted by blueyellow at 10:11 PM on February 12, 2006
superkim's post was great -- I was sitting there wondering what it was going to build up to. "Then I go in on Monday and clobber him!" or something.
posted by rolypolyman at 1:32 AM on February 13, 2006
posted by rolypolyman at 1:32 AM on February 13, 2006
Don't worry about taking him aside. If he starts in on you, and it is clearly directed at belittling you, a little "What the fuck, dick?" helps. It asserts that he's got a problem, not you, and you're not gonna just sit there and let him rag on you, but you're not going to bother engaging him either. Calling him out in public is usually the best way to end a behavior.
Other than that, you may need to find some 12-year-old black kids and do the dozens to get up to speed. For example, I've heard that your mother is so fat that she sweats butter. While "Yo' Momma" jokes don't carry into any real adult world, they are a handy way of learning to improvise verbally and aggressively.
This all assumes that you're not being a whiny milquetoast who deserves to be ragged on mercilessly.
posted by klangklangston at 1:38 PM on February 13, 2006
Other than that, you may need to find some 12-year-old black kids and do the dozens to get up to speed. For example, I've heard that your mother is so fat that she sweats butter. While "Yo' Momma" jokes don't carry into any real adult world, they are a handy way of learning to improvise verbally and aggressively.
This all assumes that you're not being a whiny milquetoast who deserves to be ragged on mercilessly.
posted by klangklangston at 1:38 PM on February 13, 2006
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posted by crapples at 7:23 AM on February 12, 2006