My boyfriend is best friend with his ex
July 15, 2018 2:26 PM Subscribe
So... yeah, no idea how to deal with this. They are best friends. More inside...
So hey guys.
I met someone new. I have known him through work for a year now but he works in another company that cooperates with mine so we ever barely talked. We got out for a smoke some day, met again the other day, and so on. Now we are together. I am so happy with him; he basically is everything I was looking for. We share the same hobbies, the same ideas, same world view. We match on every single aspect of life. I really believe he is the one for me; and so does he. It was great from the beginning, and now, 2 months into the relationship there is one thing, really just one thing that has been keeping me from my sleep. Maybe a relevant thing: I am 24 and he is 28 years old. And I don't want you to get the wrong view of him; he is a really honest and kind guy. Not at ALL like my previous relationships. And let's maybe say that I am way out of his ''league''. He is very silent, not that good looking but has a really great heart; and I love him for that.
Nevertheless, my boyfriend is best friends with his ex girlfriend. Like, really best friends. They chat all the time; they talk on the phone; they meet at least once a week ALONE; they know everything about each other. And I almost forgot, they work together. Aaand they have a horse together. They were a couple for 1 and 1/2 years. And they broke up about a year ago, and things are like this since then.
From what I hear from him and his friends, it was a relationship that didn't work and after they just realized they work better together as best friends. Everyone tells me I don't have to worry about their romantic feelings for each other, that they are completely gone. They are just best friends and there is so much that is keeping them together; so many memories; so many hard times they went through. But that's not my problem.
The first time I brought this up he was really sad, and said that he can't cancel a friendship for a relationship. And that she is too important for him to let her go as a friend. We had a huge fight, and the ''compromise'' was that they don't have as much contact until I am ready to accept it. This went good for about a month, and now we are here. I am NOT ready to accept this at all. I can't handle this ''alone'' thing. They can meet at concerts with other people, they can see each other at work but please no more.
I will meet her eventually, but that is not my problem, neither a solution. I know what out conversation will be like. Her telling me how there is nothing romantic going on between them and how I have nothing to worry about, but again, that is not the problem. He does not want to let her go. No matter how romantic he is with me and how serious is has gotten till now. I met his parents last week, just to say.
At the moment he compromised with the thought of not being her best friend, but I find him being very sad all the time about this. He just can't do it, maybe I'm asking him to be someone he is not. And by the way, I really believe that there is nothing going on between them.
I won't ever try to get in the procedure of telling you how I feel about their relationship and how much it damages me; that's why I need you guys. Please tell me your honest opinion about this.
So hey guys.
I met someone new. I have known him through work for a year now but he works in another company that cooperates with mine so we ever barely talked. We got out for a smoke some day, met again the other day, and so on. Now we are together. I am so happy with him; he basically is everything I was looking for. We share the same hobbies, the same ideas, same world view. We match on every single aspect of life. I really believe he is the one for me; and so does he. It was great from the beginning, and now, 2 months into the relationship there is one thing, really just one thing that has been keeping me from my sleep. Maybe a relevant thing: I am 24 and he is 28 years old. And I don't want you to get the wrong view of him; he is a really honest and kind guy. Not at ALL like my previous relationships. And let's maybe say that I am way out of his ''league''. He is very silent, not that good looking but has a really great heart; and I love him for that.
Nevertheless, my boyfriend is best friends with his ex girlfriend. Like, really best friends. They chat all the time; they talk on the phone; they meet at least once a week ALONE; they know everything about each other. And I almost forgot, they work together. Aaand they have a horse together. They were a couple for 1 and 1/2 years. And they broke up about a year ago, and things are like this since then.
From what I hear from him and his friends, it was a relationship that didn't work and after they just realized they work better together as best friends. Everyone tells me I don't have to worry about their romantic feelings for each other, that they are completely gone. They are just best friends and there is so much that is keeping them together; so many memories; so many hard times they went through. But that's not my problem.
The first time I brought this up he was really sad, and said that he can't cancel a friendship for a relationship. And that she is too important for him to let her go as a friend. We had a huge fight, and the ''compromise'' was that they don't have as much contact until I am ready to accept it. This went good for about a month, and now we are here. I am NOT ready to accept this at all. I can't handle this ''alone'' thing. They can meet at concerts with other people, they can see each other at work but please no more.
I will meet her eventually, but that is not my problem, neither a solution. I know what out conversation will be like. Her telling me how there is nothing romantic going on between them and how I have nothing to worry about, but again, that is not the problem. He does not want to let her go. No matter how romantic he is with me and how serious is has gotten till now. I met his parents last week, just to say.
At the moment he compromised with the thought of not being her best friend, but I find him being very sad all the time about this. He just can't do it, maybe I'm asking him to be someone he is not. And by the way, I really believe that there is nothing going on between them.
I won't ever try to get in the procedure of telling you how I feel about their relationship and how much it damages me; that's why I need you guys. Please tell me your honest opinion about this.
This situation is begging for a big let-down. DTMF, pick up the pieces and move on.
posted by furtive at 2:38 PM on July 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by furtive at 2:38 PM on July 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
The fastest way to chase this guy away is by telling him who he's allowed to be friends with. It already sounds like you're concerned about who has the "upper hand" in the relationship (you think you're "out of his league"? Really?). A real, adult, healthy relationship is a team effort, not a competition. And if you don't trust him, then you don't have a relationship. Period.
posted by biscotti at 2:39 PM on July 15, 2018 [117 favorites]
posted by biscotti at 2:39 PM on July 15, 2018 [117 favorites]
What is the actual issue? It seems like you think they're romantically involved (or have the potential to be), though you've said repeatedly that that isn't the the issue.
Is it that you need to be the best friend of the person you're dating? That's totally okay, but it perhaps does mean this isn't the guy for you--different people have different relationships to their best friends vis-a-vis their partners and it is something where you have to be okay with where the other person is at. He's signaled that not being able to maintain this relationship is a deal breaker for him, and it's okay if that's a deal breaker for you.
posted by hoyland at 2:41 PM on July 15, 2018 [6 favorites]
Is it that you need to be the best friend of the person you're dating? That's totally okay, but it perhaps does mean this isn't the guy for you--different people have different relationships to their best friends vis-a-vis their partners and it is something where you have to be okay with where the other person is at. He's signaled that not being able to maintain this relationship is a deal breaker for him, and it's okay if that's a deal breaker for you.
posted by hoyland at 2:41 PM on July 15, 2018 [6 favorites]
Fwiw, buying a horse with someone with whom you've only been in a relationship for a year and a half does not indicate greatness IMHO. That's a major commitment and, as far as I know, incredibly expensive.
A thoughtful person probably would not get into such an arrangement with someone else without careful consideration.
posted by k8t at 2:42 PM on July 15, 2018 [11 favorites]
A thoughtful person probably would not get into such an arrangement with someone else without careful consideration.
posted by k8t at 2:42 PM on July 15, 2018 [11 favorites]
Do you want to be Princess Diana to their Prince Charles/Camila friendship?
posted by metahawk at 2:45 PM on July 15, 2018 [14 favorites]
posted by metahawk at 2:45 PM on July 15, 2018 [14 favorites]
I am NOT ready to accept this at all. I can't handle this ''alone'' thing. They can meet at concerts with other people, they can see each other at work but please no more.
You can stop ALL of this immediately by breaking up with this man. This is clearly not the relationship for you.
For the record, I know people who have broken up with people they were engaged to because a partner tried to tell them who they could be friends with. For many, many people, you standard is not an acceptable one. Furthermore, there will be a subest of those people who will not want to date someone who cannot manage jealousy or thinks it's OK to dictate a SO's behaviour.
I mean, you feel what you feel and make the choices you want to make based on that, but if you are looking for a queue of people lined up to tell you he's being unreasonable and OF COURSE any woman would feel the way you do, you will not find it here.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:45 PM on July 15, 2018 [91 favorites]
You can stop ALL of this immediately by breaking up with this man. This is clearly not the relationship for you.
For the record, I know people who have broken up with people they were engaged to because a partner tried to tell them who they could be friends with. For many, many people, you standard is not an acceptable one. Furthermore, there will be a subest of those people who will not want to date someone who cannot manage jealousy or thinks it's OK to dictate a SO's behaviour.
I mean, you feel what you feel and make the choices you want to make based on that, but if you are looking for a queue of people lined up to tell you he's being unreasonable and OF COURSE any woman would feel the way you do, you will not find it here.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:45 PM on July 15, 2018 [91 favorites]
By the way, i would also be unhappy eliminating a deep friendship at the request of a girl that I just met two months ago.
Either he loves her, and this is going to end badly. Or it is just a close friendship but one that is so threatening to you that you will be miserable until he ends it. With a different couple, there might be way for the two of you to navigate this but it seems like any compromise is not going to give either one of you enough of what you want.
posted by metahawk at 2:47 PM on July 15, 2018 [5 favorites]
Either he loves her, and this is going to end badly. Or it is just a close friendship but one that is so threatening to you that you will be miserable until he ends it. With a different couple, there might be way for the two of you to navigate this but it seems like any compromise is not going to give either one of you enough of what you want.
posted by metahawk at 2:47 PM on July 15, 2018 [5 favorites]
They're friends. This speaks really well of both of them, that they had the maturity to realize that the relationship wasn't working but that they like each other as people, and to become friends instead. This says your boyfriend can communicate and cares about people and isn't that guy who treats women badly.
It's not okay to tell someone you're seeing who to be friends with and who not to be friends with. If this is "damaging" to you, that's an issue about you and not about him, not about his friendships. Your behavior is controlling and inappropriate.
posted by bile and syntax at 2:48 PM on July 15, 2018 [72 favorites]
It's not okay to tell someone you're seeing who to be friends with and who not to be friends with. If this is "damaging" to you, that's an issue about you and not about him, not about his friendships. Your behavior is controlling and inappropriate.
posted by bile and syntax at 2:48 PM on July 15, 2018 [72 favorites]
Can you please better explain this:
"I won't ever try to get in the procedure of telling you how I feel about their relationship and how much it damages me; that's why I need you guys. Please tell me your honest opinion about this."
In general and 2 months into a romantic relationship, you should not be feeling huge arguments or disagreements. 2 months into a new relationship you're not in a position to take over the "top spot" in anyone's personal life, nor they yours! Of course long held friendships are more important than anyone you've been seeing for only 8 weeks. That's healthy and normal.
Absent anything egregious (like he stood you up on your birthday to help her with a flat tire, or some other "emergency" where a service like roadside assistance could do the job) you kinda don't present a conflict or problem except for the one inside of yourself. There may be problematic behavior around this friendship, but you didn't really describe that. So, you're likely to get a lot of pushback this is your own problem to deal with, not his.
I think the answer is somewhere between your extreme discomfort regarding this friendship and everyone telling you to get over yourself and stop being controlling. If I were you, I would refocus my time and energy on something that soley improved me and my life - a class, a self-improvement project, a hobby like cycling or triathlon - and every time I was tempted to worry, focus on, or object to their friendship, I would turn to my New Thing and focus on myself and my own wellbeing.
That's my advice to you. It's kind of anti-advice insofar as there is zero for you to do or say about this friendship. Every time it crosses your mind or flares your emotions, turn towards yourself and your new pursuit. Consistently replace any thoughts or feelings about this friendship with thoughts about your new self-improvement pursuit.
At 2 months in, his friendships are pretty much none of your concern. Fight the urge to concern yourself with his business by investing in your own important wellbeing. Win/win. Try it.
posted by jbenben at 2:50 PM on July 15, 2018 [30 favorites]
"I won't ever try to get in the procedure of telling you how I feel about their relationship and how much it damages me; that's why I need you guys. Please tell me your honest opinion about this."
In general and 2 months into a romantic relationship, you should not be feeling huge arguments or disagreements. 2 months into a new relationship you're not in a position to take over the "top spot" in anyone's personal life, nor they yours! Of course long held friendships are more important than anyone you've been seeing for only 8 weeks. That's healthy and normal.
Absent anything egregious (like he stood you up on your birthday to help her with a flat tire, or some other "emergency" where a service like roadside assistance could do the job) you kinda don't present a conflict or problem except for the one inside of yourself. There may be problematic behavior around this friendship, but you didn't really describe that. So, you're likely to get a lot of pushback this is your own problem to deal with, not his.
I think the answer is somewhere between your extreme discomfort regarding this friendship and everyone telling you to get over yourself and stop being controlling. If I were you, I would refocus my time and energy on something that soley improved me and my life - a class, a self-improvement project, a hobby like cycling or triathlon - and every time I was tempted to worry, focus on, or object to their friendship, I would turn to my New Thing and focus on myself and my own wellbeing.
That's my advice to you. It's kind of anti-advice insofar as there is zero for you to do or say about this friendship. Every time it crosses your mind or flares your emotions, turn towards yourself and your new pursuit. Consistently replace any thoughts or feelings about this friendship with thoughts about your new self-improvement pursuit.
At 2 months in, his friendships are pretty much none of your concern. Fight the urge to concern yourself with his business by investing in your own important wellbeing. Win/win. Try it.
posted by jbenben at 2:50 PM on July 15, 2018 [30 favorites]
Please tell me your honest opinion about this.
As a general principle having nothing to do with you, I think the idea of restricting your partner's interactions with members of the opposite sex is childish. It's what kids do in fifth grade when they're first exploring "dating." The nation made fun of Mike Pence last year for his opinions about spending time alone with women, and while I disliked the mockery of his religion...yeah, I think that stuff is fifth-grade. "You can go to concerts with a third person, but no coffee alone." Come on. No, being an ex doesn't change this calculus.
That's general. More specifically? You feel that you're "out of his league." You say repeatedly that aspects of this situation "aren't your problem," in a way that comes across like the text equivalent of stomping your foot. You're having "huge" fights and feeling "damaged" by a relationship that's two months old. Gently, and said with kindness: you aren't ready for a grown-up relationship. Don't let this man hurt his friendship with someone else as part of your learning experience.
You're fine. We don't teach relationships in school; we just expect people to learn on their own. Everybody's working from what they learned at home as children, which presents two problems: we were all taught with radically different models, and many of those models were deeply flawed. Your feelings and behavior in this instance are immature—but okay, so acknowledge that, reflect, grow, and do better next time, with him or with someone else.
posted by cribcage at 2:52 PM on July 15, 2018 [84 favorites]
As a general principle having nothing to do with you, I think the idea of restricting your partner's interactions with members of the opposite sex is childish. It's what kids do in fifth grade when they're first exploring "dating." The nation made fun of Mike Pence last year for his opinions about spending time alone with women, and while I disliked the mockery of his religion...yeah, I think that stuff is fifth-grade. "You can go to concerts with a third person, but no coffee alone." Come on. No, being an ex doesn't change this calculus.
That's general. More specifically? You feel that you're "out of his league." You say repeatedly that aspects of this situation "aren't your problem," in a way that comes across like the text equivalent of stomping your foot. You're having "huge" fights and feeling "damaged" by a relationship that's two months old. Gently, and said with kindness: you aren't ready for a grown-up relationship. Don't let this man hurt his friendship with someone else as part of your learning experience.
You're fine. We don't teach relationships in school; we just expect people to learn on their own. Everybody's working from what they learned at home as children, which presents two problems: we were all taught with radically different models, and many of those models were deeply flawed. Your feelings and behavior in this instance are immature—but okay, so acknowledge that, reflect, grow, and do better next time, with him or with someone else.
posted by cribcage at 2:52 PM on July 15, 2018 [84 favorites]
It sounds like you shouldn't be in a relationship with this guy. You feel very negatively about this friendship he's in, to the point of feeling like it damages you. It sounds like he really values the friendship. If neither of these things changes, your relationship with him isn't going to work.
That said, if you're up for it, you might try examining and interrogating your own feelings about this. What is it you don't like about their friendship? Is it that you think your boyfriend is going to cheat on you? Is it that he's not emotionally available enough with you? Is it that he has an intimate friendship with another person that's different than his relationship with you? If it's the last one, would you feel differently if his friend were a guy?
How much do you need to be the apex of intimacy with the person you're dating? It seems unrealistic, just two months into the relationship, to expect that you're going to be closer to your boyfriend than anyone else in his life. Are you willing to let your relationship develop naturally, and re-evaluate as you go whether this friendship of his is still a threat?
Good friendships are hard to find, and I think it speaks well of your boyfriend that he's reluctant to jettison his friendship for a two-month-old romantic relationship, no matter how promising the relationship may be. It also speaks well of him that he's trying to figure out a compromise that would make you happy. It sounds like he cares about you and about this friendship. Your choice is whether you can live with the friendship or with making him give it up (if he's willing). It sounds like you should probably end this.
posted by unreadyhero at 2:55 PM on July 15, 2018 [11 favorites]
That said, if you're up for it, you might try examining and interrogating your own feelings about this. What is it you don't like about their friendship? Is it that you think your boyfriend is going to cheat on you? Is it that he's not emotionally available enough with you? Is it that he has an intimate friendship with another person that's different than his relationship with you? If it's the last one, would you feel differently if his friend were a guy?
How much do you need to be the apex of intimacy with the person you're dating? It seems unrealistic, just two months into the relationship, to expect that you're going to be closer to your boyfriend than anyone else in his life. Are you willing to let your relationship develop naturally, and re-evaluate as you go whether this friendship of his is still a threat?
Good friendships are hard to find, and I think it speaks well of your boyfriend that he's reluctant to jettison his friendship for a two-month-old romantic relationship, no matter how promising the relationship may be. It also speaks well of him that he's trying to figure out a compromise that would make you happy. It sounds like he cares about you and about this friendship. Your choice is whether you can live with the friendship or with making him give it up (if he's willing). It sounds like you should probably end this.
posted by unreadyhero at 2:55 PM on July 15, 2018 [11 favorites]
Their friendship sounds fine to me: some people are friends with many of their exes, others are friends with none, and then there are a few whose ex becomes their bff and it just works. Of course, there are people who are secretly continuing to have affairs with their ex while dating new people but it doesn't sound like that here. I reviewed your posting history and see you've had a lot of bad luck with relationships in the past. I'm sorry because I've been there, too. I can't tell if this guy is another dud and that your radar is picking up on it faster or if these feeling are a sign to work on your own insecurities. We all have them in different ways and at different times. You are his equal and I wish you felt that way, too. Fortunately, that's something you can work on -- for yourself and your future, regardless of what happens here -- and come to a great place.
Also, it's perfectly OK to break up with someone for any reason, especially so early on. He may be a great guy but he may not be the greatest guy for you. While I would be totally OK with a new partner being best friends with their ex, I'd want to become (one of) their best friend eventually too. If I didn't, then the relationship just wouldn't work for me; however, this is still very early on and I think he's set a good boundary.
I'm going to put this out there: your gut is telling you that this isn't the right relationship for you, and that's OK. The ex thing may be a red herring but the gut feeling is there. He may seem "perfect" but no one is perfect; however, a good relationship can be strong and solid as we gain the time and energy to become better people ourselves. If you really like this guy and want this to work out, then I'd look into therapy to start exploring those insecurities because you are rad and deserve to feel good! If not, it's perfectly OK to end things because it's not working for you, and wish him the best with no hard feelings.
posted by smorgasbord at 3:21 PM on July 15, 2018 [4 favorites]
Also, it's perfectly OK to break up with someone for any reason, especially so early on. He may be a great guy but he may not be the greatest guy for you. While I would be totally OK with a new partner being best friends with their ex, I'd want to become (one of) their best friend eventually too. If I didn't, then the relationship just wouldn't work for me; however, this is still very early on and I think he's set a good boundary.
I'm going to put this out there: your gut is telling you that this isn't the right relationship for you, and that's OK. The ex thing may be a red herring but the gut feeling is there. He may seem "perfect" but no one is perfect; however, a good relationship can be strong and solid as we gain the time and energy to become better people ourselves. If you really like this guy and want this to work out, then I'd look into therapy to start exploring those insecurities because you are rad and deserve to feel good! If not, it's perfectly OK to end things because it's not working for you, and wish him the best with no hard feelings.
posted by smorgasbord at 3:21 PM on July 15, 2018 [4 favorites]
If I were him I would break up with you, even if I felt I loved you, even if you were out of my league. I could never be in a relationship with someone who said they believed me that my friend was a good and trustworthy person who I wasn’t romantically interested, but then refused to allow me to be friends with them.
posted by samthemander at 3:21 PM on July 15, 2018 [23 favorites]
posted by samthemander at 3:21 PM on July 15, 2018 [23 favorites]
This is way too early in a brand-new relationship for this much drama. He’s a bit unusually close with his ex; you’re a bit too tied up in how he runs his life for someone who is so newly a part of it. You seem like people who are looking for different things and should probably part now, having figured that out early on.
posted by Stacey at 3:23 PM on July 15, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by Stacey at 3:23 PM on July 15, 2018 [5 favorites]
Well, if it were me, I would be glad that my new lover so clearly has great communication and relationship skills and also that he has solid friendships in his life. I might sometimes experience moments of jealousy or insecurity and I would try to navigate that with a range of tools, including both internal ones and talking with him about my feelings. Socially, I would definitely meet this ex and consciously try to become friends with her myself--treating her similarly to how I might treat his cousin or something, because I would read her as part of his chosen family.
In other words, my honest opinion is that this doesn't seem like a problem to me.
But of course, you're a different person than I am. You have a different emotional landscape and sounds like a different orientation to relationships, likely stemming from different experiences.
I won't ever try to get in the procedure of telling you how I feel about their relationship and how much it damages me; that's why I need you guys. Please tell me your honest opinion about this.
My other honest opinion is that what you wrote above is actually you leaving out the most important and interesting aspect of all this. There's no objective answer here; the way to figure out this question isn't by finding the socially acceptable truth through a survey of opinions but instead by looking at your feelings (either with yourself or through conversation). Because what's most important is the needs and personal truths that are bound up with those feelings. Exploring all that is what you need to do to get clear about how best to respond to this relational dilemma.
posted by overglow at 3:25 PM on July 15, 2018 [8 favorites]
In other words, my honest opinion is that this doesn't seem like a problem to me.
But of course, you're a different person than I am. You have a different emotional landscape and sounds like a different orientation to relationships, likely stemming from different experiences.
I won't ever try to get in the procedure of telling you how I feel about their relationship and how much it damages me; that's why I need you guys. Please tell me your honest opinion about this.
My other honest opinion is that what you wrote above is actually you leaving out the most important and interesting aspect of all this. There's no objective answer here; the way to figure out this question isn't by finding the socially acceptable truth through a survey of opinions but instead by looking at your feelings (either with yourself or through conversation). Because what's most important is the needs and personal truths that are bound up with those feelings. Exploring all that is what you need to do to get clear about how best to respond to this relational dilemma.
posted by overglow at 3:25 PM on July 15, 2018 [8 favorites]
. . . he basically is everything I was looking for.
He’s clearly not. He’s everything you were looking for except this GIANT THING YOU DONT LIKE. Which means he’s not everything you were looking for. If you ever thought to yourself he’d be perfect, except this one thing, then he’s not perfect.
You have to choose if you can accept him now, as he is with this friendship, or not, and move on. Don’t make the mistake of staying with the hope he’ll change, because that is the way unhappy relationships are made.
It sounds like you are less worried about him cheating on you or leaving you for this girl, then you want to be the person she is in his life. And that is prefect fine and normal. It just again means this is not the right relationship for you.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 3:29 PM on July 15, 2018 [18 favorites]
He’s clearly not. He’s everything you were looking for except this GIANT THING YOU DONT LIKE. Which means he’s not everything you were looking for. If you ever thought to yourself he’d be perfect, except this one thing, then he’s not perfect.
You have to choose if you can accept him now, as he is with this friendship, or not, and move on. Don’t make the mistake of staying with the hope he’ll change, because that is the way unhappy relationships are made.
It sounds like you are less worried about him cheating on you or leaving you for this girl, then you want to be the person she is in his life. And that is prefect fine and normal. It just again means this is not the right relationship for you.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 3:29 PM on July 15, 2018 [18 favorites]
Were they still sleeping together when broken up? Are they still? I don't get the half broken up thing, but friends I know do it.
posted by TheAdamist at 3:45 PM on July 15, 2018
posted by TheAdamist at 3:45 PM on July 15, 2018
This isn't the guy for you. You and he are not going to see eye-to-eye about this and the situation will bring out the worst in you. Find someone else. It's only been 2 months.
posted by quince at 3:46 PM on July 15, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by quince at 3:46 PM on July 15, 2018 [4 favorites]
I am still best friends with an ex. If my husband had tried to tell me I couldn't socialize with them back when we were first dating, I would have ended the relationship. It sounds like you should find someone else to date and let this guy do the same.
posted by chaiminda at 3:48 PM on July 15, 2018 [12 favorites]
posted by chaiminda at 3:48 PM on July 15, 2018 [12 favorites]
Wow, everyone is being really kind, but I'll be more blunt. I don't think the way you're acting is very thoughtful or mature.
Their relationship isn't about you. They've been broken up and non romantic for a year. They had a year to get back together, and they didn't, and now he has gotten into a relationship with you. Everyone tells you you don't have to worry about this, and you yourself "really believe that there is nothing going on between them."
And yet you want him to have much less contact with his best friend. He cares enough about you that he's trying to accommodate this (!), and it clearly saddens him, but you don't feel concern about causing him those feelings. You know nothing is going on and yet you're trying to hurt or destroy their friendship. In my view of the world, that's like a moral crime or whatever you want to call it. People's deep relationships aren't yours to destroy, no matter what.
Even if you're right and he's too attached to her to be ready for a new relationship, the right answer is just to move along. But you don't even say that. You give no reasons why this is interfering with your relationship, just that he does not want to let her go. Well yeah, he's been close to her for years and they've been through a lot. (That's "not your problem??" That's a really selfish way of looking at this.) Why should he have to let her go? What's making you want to destroy this relationship? Insecurity? Because you fear your relationship with him will never have that depth? I mean, the guy can clearly form real relationships, so why don't you just get on with building your own relationship with him? He's introduced you to his parents just a couple months in.
I'm not saying that a concern like yours could never make sense. You might reach a point where you can say "he clearly only has room for one person in his heart, and it's not me." But you're not saying that. His friends aren't saying that. You basically said the opposite. His behavior conveys the opposite. You don't give any reason this is limiting the ability of you guys to form a solid relationship. It sounds to me like you need to get to the bottom of why you're doing this and address that (insecurity?) inside yourself. And maybe hold off on relationships until other people's desires and sadness are things that you care about.
posted by salvia at 3:48 PM on July 15, 2018 [51 favorites]
Their relationship isn't about you. They've been broken up and non romantic for a year. They had a year to get back together, and they didn't, and now he has gotten into a relationship with you. Everyone tells you you don't have to worry about this, and you yourself "really believe that there is nothing going on between them."
And yet you want him to have much less contact with his best friend. He cares enough about you that he's trying to accommodate this (!), and it clearly saddens him, but you don't feel concern about causing him those feelings. You know nothing is going on and yet you're trying to hurt or destroy their friendship. In my view of the world, that's like a moral crime or whatever you want to call it. People's deep relationships aren't yours to destroy, no matter what.
Even if you're right and he's too attached to her to be ready for a new relationship, the right answer is just to move along. But you don't even say that. You give no reasons why this is interfering with your relationship, just that he does not want to let her go. Well yeah, he's been close to her for years and they've been through a lot. (That's "not your problem??" That's a really selfish way of looking at this.) Why should he have to let her go? What's making you want to destroy this relationship? Insecurity? Because you fear your relationship with him will never have that depth? I mean, the guy can clearly form real relationships, so why don't you just get on with building your own relationship with him? He's introduced you to his parents just a couple months in.
I'm not saying that a concern like yours could never make sense. You might reach a point where you can say "he clearly only has room for one person in his heart, and it's not me." But you're not saying that. His friends aren't saying that. You basically said the opposite. His behavior conveys the opposite. You don't give any reason this is limiting the ability of you guys to form a solid relationship. It sounds to me like you need to get to the bottom of why you're doing this and address that (insecurity?) inside yourself. And maybe hold off on relationships until other people's desires and sadness are things that you care about.
posted by salvia at 3:48 PM on July 15, 2018 [51 favorites]
You need to see the two of them together; reserve judgements until then.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 3:49 PM on July 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by St. Peepsburg at 3:49 PM on July 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
Her telling me how there is nothing romantic going on between them and how I have nothing to worry about, but again, that is not the problem.
Then what exactly is the problem?
posted by waffleriot at 3:50 PM on July 15, 2018 [8 favorites]
Then what exactly is the problem?
posted by waffleriot at 3:50 PM on July 15, 2018 [8 favorites]
You're not afraid that he's cheating with her now, you're afraid that you will invest time and effort into a relationship and he will later on decide he wants to go back to her. That fear of the future is killing your relationship with him now.
I will meet her eventually, but that is not my problem, neither a solution. I know what out conversation will be like. Her telling me how there is nothing romantic going on between them and how I have nothing to worry about, but again, that is not the problem.
No, that's not how the conversation will go, this isn't a Lifetime movie of the week. You'll meet her and you'll make small talk; she's not going to reassure you about anything, she's an adult and this is your problem, not hers. I'm sorry, but if you can't find a way to be comfortable with their friendship, then this relationship isn't going to work.
But before you do anything, meet her. Give her a chance. You're building up a lot in your head and you've never even met her. If he means as much to you as you say he does, make this effort.
posted by NoraCharles at 4:10 PM on July 15, 2018 [11 favorites]
I will meet her eventually, but that is not my problem, neither a solution. I know what out conversation will be like. Her telling me how there is nothing romantic going on between them and how I have nothing to worry about, but again, that is not the problem.
No, that's not how the conversation will go, this isn't a Lifetime movie of the week. You'll meet her and you'll make small talk; she's not going to reassure you about anything, she's an adult and this is your problem, not hers. I'm sorry, but if you can't find a way to be comfortable with their friendship, then this relationship isn't going to work.
But before you do anything, meet her. Give her a chance. You're building up a lot in your head and you've never even met her. If he means as much to you as you say he does, make this effort.
posted by NoraCharles at 4:10 PM on July 15, 2018 [11 favorites]
This doesn't sound like a situation in which you can be happy long-term. Your and his values on being friends with exes clearly don't match up. I would urge you to rethink the blanket idea you seem to have that close friendship with an ex or member of the opposite sex is automatically a huge red flag. As a bi person currently dating another bi person, if either of us followed those same rules we could literally have no other friends.
You also seem to have internalized the idea that if you can't fulfill ALL roles in your significant other's life the relationship has failed, and I'd urge you to rethink that for your own mental health. Relationships that allow for needs to be fulfilled by many different people (I'm not talking poly/romantic/sexual needs here, that's a different discussion) in my experience have been the healthiest that I've been involved in.
posted by augustimagination at 4:19 PM on July 15, 2018 [6 favorites]
You also seem to have internalized the idea that if you can't fulfill ALL roles in your significant other's life the relationship has failed, and I'd urge you to rethink that for your own mental health. Relationships that allow for needs to be fulfilled by many different people (I'm not talking poly/romantic/sexual needs here, that's a different discussion) in my experience have been the healthiest that I've been involved in.
posted by augustimagination at 4:19 PM on July 15, 2018 [6 favorites]
Okay, I have to ask — did you mean they own a horse together or a house?
Regardless, here’s my experience: my now-ex-spouse told me that I couldn’t be friends with an ex. My current spouse doesn’t care whether I’m friends with that same ex or any other, and in fact has grown to be better friends than I am with more than one of my exes. Take from that what you will.
posted by Etrigan at 4:24 PM on July 15, 2018 [8 favorites]
Regardless, here’s my experience: my now-ex-spouse told me that I couldn’t be friends with an ex. My current spouse doesn’t care whether I’m friends with that same ex or any other, and in fact has grown to be better friends than I am with more than one of my exes. Take from that what you will.
posted by Etrigan at 4:24 PM on July 15, 2018 [8 favorites]
For what it's worth, when I met my wife, my best friend was probably my most recent serious ex-girlfriend (broken up for about a year): we hung out regularly, texted regularly, she'd even spend the night (on the couch) on occasion when my then girlfriend wasn't around (and when she was around for that matter).
My then girlfriend/now wife was amazing about it, and became very good friends with my best friend/ex. If my girlfriend/now wife had asked me to break off my friendship with my ex pretty much any time up through when we got engaged, I'm pretty sure that would have been a dealbreaker for me for multiple reasons. Thankfully never came up.
Since getting married, we had a baby, and now have less time to spend with friends - which makes me sad, but is just a structural development. My wife, myself, and my ex are still very good friends, but I don't see my friend nearly as much sadly. I still consider her one of my very best friends though.
I've had a lot of people ask me (and my wife) questions over the years about this, and I think it is unusual - though by no means unprecedented in my friend group. But it's who I am, and my wife wouldn't be the right person for me if she had issues with my friendship with my ex.
My other best friend - a guy I've known since I was six months old - had his girlfriend insist he break off his friendship with his ex, and he understood her request, thought it was reasonable, and did so. They're married with a baby as well and are very happy. I never could have done it, but it worked for them.
I think the moral of this long personal anecdote is something that's been said above - the question is not really who's right or wrong - we all have our opinions on that question. The question is are you right for one another and it sounds like you're not - you can't be happy with him while he's friends with his ex, and he can't be happy with himself if he breaks his friendship off with his ex for you. Unless we're missing something, I think you should call this one off.
posted by slide at 4:35 PM on July 15, 2018 [12 favorites]
My then girlfriend/now wife was amazing about it, and became very good friends with my best friend/ex. If my girlfriend/now wife had asked me to break off my friendship with my ex pretty much any time up through when we got engaged, I'm pretty sure that would have been a dealbreaker for me for multiple reasons. Thankfully never came up.
Since getting married, we had a baby, and now have less time to spend with friends - which makes me sad, but is just a structural development. My wife, myself, and my ex are still very good friends, but I don't see my friend nearly as much sadly. I still consider her one of my very best friends though.
I've had a lot of people ask me (and my wife) questions over the years about this, and I think it is unusual - though by no means unprecedented in my friend group. But it's who I am, and my wife wouldn't be the right person for me if she had issues with my friendship with my ex.
My other best friend - a guy I've known since I was six months old - had his girlfriend insist he break off his friendship with his ex, and he understood her request, thought it was reasonable, and did so. They're married with a baby as well and are very happy. I never could have done it, but it worked for them.
I think the moral of this long personal anecdote is something that's been said above - the question is not really who's right or wrong - we all have our opinions on that question. The question is are you right for one another and it sounds like you're not - you can't be happy with him while he's friends with his ex, and he can't be happy with himself if he breaks his friendship off with his ex for you. Unless we're missing something, I think you should call this one off.
posted by slide at 4:35 PM on July 15, 2018 [12 favorites]
i am on good terms with my ex. i met a nice woman who couldn't stand that i was on good terms with my ex. she worked super hard to marginalize my ex, and after a while ...
i'm still on good terms with my ex.
posted by zippy at 4:50 PM on July 15, 2018 [27 favorites]
i'm still on good terms with my ex.
posted by zippy at 4:50 PM on July 15, 2018 [27 favorites]
And let's maybe say that I am way out of his ''league''... And by the way, I really believe that there is nothing going on between them.
You think you’re better than him and you’re trying to police his friendships for (by your own admission) no justifiable reason. Please please please end this relationship so he can find someone else.
posted by schroedingersgirl at 4:52 PM on July 15, 2018 [31 favorites]
You think you’re better than him and you’re trying to police his friendships for (by your own admission) no justifiable reason. Please please please end this relationship so he can find someone else.
posted by schroedingersgirl at 4:52 PM on July 15, 2018 [31 favorites]
Boyfriends who have really close emotional relationships with their exes are weird. They haven't quite let it go yet. It takes more time.
There's two views here, and I'm with the break away and give him that space to whatever.
posted by ovvl at 5:36 PM on July 15, 2018 [7 favorites]
There's two views here, and I'm with the break away and give him that space to whatever.
posted by ovvl at 5:36 PM on July 15, 2018 [7 favorites]
He's great friends with an ex-girlfriend? This is a feature, not a bug.
My dad remained great friends with his first wife. She even gave my mother a wedding present when they finally married. I grew up thinking that if you love somebody for who they are, that love doesn't necessarily die when you stop having a sexual relationship with them. I have very fond memories of my father's first wife because we'd often go round to visit when I was a kid, to say hello and enjoy her company.
The fact that your new boyfriend is still good friends with his ex-girlfriend says a lot about the quality of your boyfriend. The fact that this upsets you says a lot about your expectations regarding relationships. If you want to keep him, you have to let go of toxic expectations around male/female friendships. This is your problem to solve, not theirs'.
posted by Thella at 5:38 PM on July 15, 2018 [37 favorites]
My dad remained great friends with his first wife. She even gave my mother a wedding present when they finally married. I grew up thinking that if you love somebody for who they are, that love doesn't necessarily die when you stop having a sexual relationship with them. I have very fond memories of my father's first wife because we'd often go round to visit when I was a kid, to say hello and enjoy her company.
The fact that your new boyfriend is still good friends with his ex-girlfriend says a lot about the quality of your boyfriend. The fact that this upsets you says a lot about your expectations regarding relationships. If you want to keep him, you have to let go of toxic expectations around male/female friendships. This is your problem to solve, not theirs'.
posted by Thella at 5:38 PM on July 15, 2018 [37 favorites]
I am close friends (like, advice giving and receiving, emergency keyholder, theoretical help-me-hide-a-body type close) with three of my exes, going back twenty years in one case. Some people work better as friends than lovers. If that makes me weird, per ovvl, then, okay, I'm weird. But the fact they all endorse me to others as a good friend/relationship material, though... I think that must mean I'm not awful, either.
See, weird or not, there is zero chance I would ever re-start a romantic relationship with them, and vice versa, and I expect we'll remain close friends for the rest of our lives. Friends you can count on are more rare and more valuable than relationships, when it comes right down to it. (Take your own honest tally, y'all.)
This isn't saying your guy and his friendship is de facto innocent or harmless. We can't know. You will have to move carefully with eyes open while you decide what you can deal with, and what you cannot. But I can strongly relate to all of the commenters above who say that dictating who someone can be friends with is a red line, at least for me. If you cannot handle his friendship with an ex -- or, as it sounds, the very idea of a friendship with an ex -- then the two of you are clearly not nearly as compatible as you believe. I mean "we agree on everything and he is completely perfect, if only he would change this one part of himself" doesn't lead you to some introspection?
Also, well.... two months? You're getting ahead of yourself, here.
posted by rokusan at 5:42 PM on July 15, 2018 [7 favorites]
See, weird or not, there is zero chance I would ever re-start a romantic relationship with them, and vice versa, and I expect we'll remain close friends for the rest of our lives. Friends you can count on are more rare and more valuable than relationships, when it comes right down to it. (Take your own honest tally, y'all.)
This isn't saying your guy and his friendship is de facto innocent or harmless. We can't know. You will have to move carefully with eyes open while you decide what you can deal with, and what you cannot. But I can strongly relate to all of the commenters above who say that dictating who someone can be friends with is a red line, at least for me. If you cannot handle his friendship with an ex -- or, as it sounds, the very idea of a friendship with an ex -- then the two of you are clearly not nearly as compatible as you believe. I mean "we agree on everything and he is completely perfect, if only he would change this one part of himself" doesn't lead you to some introspection?
Also, well.... two months? You're getting ahead of yourself, here.
posted by rokusan at 5:42 PM on July 15, 2018 [7 favorites]
I think honestly I agree with both sides of this. On the one hand, I know a lot of guys who have inappropriate emotional entanglements with exes /even when there was “nothing romantic happening”. Especially if they haven’t taken any no-contact time to be used to not dating each other. On the other hand, someone telling me who I can and can’t be friends with is a huge red flag.
So I don’t think there really is any good way to get what you want. You want him not to be enmeshed with her, but he clearly is, and you telling him not to is just going to turn you into the Fun Police. I’d cut my losses, honestly.
posted by corb at 5:44 PM on July 15, 2018 [8 favorites]
So I don’t think there really is any good way to get what you want. You want him not to be enmeshed with her, but he clearly is, and you telling him not to is just going to turn you into the Fun Police. I’d cut my losses, honestly.
posted by corb at 5:44 PM on July 15, 2018 [8 favorites]
My best friend is my ex. I think this is relatively more common with queer people, to wind up friends afterwards, just because your SO is more likely to be the sort of person you'd be friends with in the first place, but like... it's not like it's unheard-of in other contexts. She's my best friend for a reason, but she's also my ex for a reason. If we were good as a couple, we'd be dating. We aren't.
Honest and generally emotionally balanced people can and do have friendships like this. On the other hand, dishonest people who aren't good at managing their feelings can and do ping-pong back and forth between people and lie about who they're sleeping with and whatever. So--do you really in your heart think he's an honest person? Are you concerned that he's not? Are you concerned about his level of self-control? That's a legit problem to have. On the other hand, if you just think people can't be friends with anyone of the gender they're attracted to without being compelled to be unfaithful to their partners, consider whether that's really something you can generalize that way. (Do bisexuals not get friends at all?)
posted by Sequence at 5:56 PM on July 15, 2018 [11 favorites]
Honest and generally emotionally balanced people can and do have friendships like this. On the other hand, dishonest people who aren't good at managing their feelings can and do ping-pong back and forth between people and lie about who they're sleeping with and whatever. So--do you really in your heart think he's an honest person? Are you concerned that he's not? Are you concerned about his level of self-control? That's a legit problem to have. On the other hand, if you just think people can't be friends with anyone of the gender they're attracted to without being compelled to be unfaithful to their partners, consider whether that's really something you can generalize that way. (Do bisexuals not get friends at all?)
posted by Sequence at 5:56 PM on July 15, 2018 [11 favorites]
It doesn’t really matter what is actually going on with him and his friend, because it is so obviously Not Cool with you. It’s okay to be Not Cool with anything in a potential long-term partner, but the answer to that early in a relationship is to have a clean break with them, not to try to force them into a mold that works for you.
(My husband and I had a Man of Honor and Best Lady at our wedding, so this particular Not Cool is obviously not my Not Cool, but I’m not going to logic you out of your feelings. Find someone with views that more closely align with your own on this front.)
posted by tchemgrrl at 5:59 PM on July 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
(My husband and I had a Man of Honor and Best Lady at our wedding, so this particular Not Cool is obviously not my Not Cool, but I’m not going to logic you out of your feelings. Find someone with views that more closely align with your own on this front.)
posted by tchemgrrl at 5:59 PM on July 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
It’s okay to be Not Cool with anything in a potential long-term partner
This is true, but it's important to know the loci of the 'not cool' feeling. If the 'not cool' feeling arises from unexamined expectations, then maybe it would be worthwhile exploring the expectations before expiring the relationship.
posted by Thella at 6:08 PM on July 15, 2018 [4 favorites]
This is true, but it's important to know the loci of the 'not cool' feeling. If the 'not cool' feeling arises from unexamined expectations, then maybe it would be worthwhile exploring the expectations before expiring the relationship.
posted by Thella at 6:08 PM on July 15, 2018 [4 favorites]
I can't tell from your question whether you are trying to change to become OK with your partner being friends with an ex, or whether you are already convinced that changing is impossible. If the latter, then you should just break up. It's mean to him and his ex to get into big fights with him about it.
posted by value of information at 6:23 PM on July 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by value of information at 6:23 PM on July 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
Come on. No, being an ex doesn't change this calculus.
Sure it does. Some people you will never have sex with. Some people you have and might again!
i am on good terms with my ex. i met a nice woman who couldn't stand that i was on good terms with my ex. she worked super hard to marginalize my ex, and after a while ...
i'm still on good terms with my ex.
Yeah and this is exactly why some of us are insecure about exes! They pre-date us and may also outlast us! It's intimidating and causes insecurity.
She's my best friend for a reason, but she's also my ex for a reason. If we were good as a couple, we'd be dating. We aren't.
And sometimes those circumstances change! Like maturity, location, job status, all kinds of stuff!
I don't think you're weird or immature for being uncomfortable. I think you can ride this out as long as you can handle it and see if anything changes, or you can break up with him. I don't think he has to dump his best friend for a two month relationship but I do think he owes you an indication of how you would rank in his priority list if your relationship turns long term. If it's important to you that you're his best friend (which I totally get! My husband is definitely mine.) but he doesn't foresee her ever taking a demotion, then you can move on and find a partner who has a space available in the number one position.
posted by masquesoporfavor at 6:33 PM on July 15, 2018 [8 favorites]
Sure it does. Some people you will never have sex with. Some people you have and might again!
i am on good terms with my ex. i met a nice woman who couldn't stand that i was on good terms with my ex. she worked super hard to marginalize my ex, and after a while ...
i'm still on good terms with my ex.
Yeah and this is exactly why some of us are insecure about exes! They pre-date us and may also outlast us! It's intimidating and causes insecurity.
She's my best friend for a reason, but she's also my ex for a reason. If we were good as a couple, we'd be dating. We aren't.
And sometimes those circumstances change! Like maturity, location, job status, all kinds of stuff!
I don't think you're weird or immature for being uncomfortable. I think you can ride this out as long as you can handle it and see if anything changes, or you can break up with him. I don't think he has to dump his best friend for a two month relationship but I do think he owes you an indication of how you would rank in his priority list if your relationship turns long term. If it's important to you that you're his best friend (which I totally get! My husband is definitely mine.) but he doesn't foresee her ever taking a demotion, then you can move on and find a partner who has a space available in the number one position.
posted by masquesoporfavor at 6:33 PM on July 15, 2018 [8 favorites]
There are lots of reasons in the world that people can be individually great but not compatible with each other, and that includes how they conduct their social lives (whether that's the amount of time devoted to it or hanging out with people you don't want in your life for whatever reasons or drastically different work/life balance priorities or whatever) and the way they go about friend or family relationships.
It doesn't actually work to try to convince yourself of something counter to how you feel when it's not a thing that has a lot of documented facts. The truth is, nobody can really know exactly what's in the hearts and intentions of other people so nobody here can tell you to just not feel how you feel. You might be right about them, you might be wrong, you might become comfortable with it after enough time with him to understand him better, or you might do that and then find out you were wrong.
The only real choice you have here is to either keep going and attempt to manage your feelings (adult-style, without putting it on him or her to manage them for you) even though that means a question mark of how much time do you keep wrestling this before you give up, or decide that this is not a worthy situation for having to manage feelings about - in other words, this is a dealbreaker for you - and move on.
Honestly, for me, I'd wonder who the hell buys a horse together in a relationship that new? That strikes me as weirdly impulsive unless they are both rich horsey people.
posted by Lyn Never at 6:51 PM on July 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
It doesn't actually work to try to convince yourself of something counter to how you feel when it's not a thing that has a lot of documented facts. The truth is, nobody can really know exactly what's in the hearts and intentions of other people so nobody here can tell you to just not feel how you feel. You might be right about them, you might be wrong, you might become comfortable with it after enough time with him to understand him better, or you might do that and then find out you were wrong.
The only real choice you have here is to either keep going and attempt to manage your feelings (adult-style, without putting it on him or her to manage them for you) even though that means a question mark of how much time do you keep wrestling this before you give up, or decide that this is not a worthy situation for having to manage feelings about - in other words, this is a dealbreaker for you - and move on.
Honestly, for me, I'd wonder who the hell buys a horse together in a relationship that new? That strikes me as weirdly impulsive unless they are both rich horsey people.
posted by Lyn Never at 6:51 PM on July 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
It sounds like the two of you are just not right for each other. Asking him to give up an important relationship is not fair or likely to succeed and will just make you resent each other in the long run.
If you do decide to try to manage your feelings and see if this situation can work, you will need to accept the reality of his attachment to his friend. At a minimum, it would be a god idea to meet her and see them together before leaping into the next step.
posted by rpfields at 7:00 PM on July 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
If you do decide to try to manage your feelings and see if this situation can work, you will need to accept the reality of his attachment to his friend. At a minimum, it would be a god idea to meet her and see them together before leaping into the next step.
posted by rpfields at 7:00 PM on July 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
This would make me uneasy. They have been intimate on several levels, now they are emotionally intimate, not physically intimate, and have entangled lives. They spend significant amounts of time together. Even though they don't describe the relationship as romantic, does he have room in his life for a primary relationship? Because she still sounds like his primary relationship. You don't get to tell him who he can be friends with, but you do get to be worried that he has an emotional partner already. Are you looking for a long term relationship, maybe marriage? What is he looking for?
posted by theora55 at 7:18 PM on July 15, 2018 [14 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 7:18 PM on July 15, 2018 [14 favorites]
At the end of the day, it's what makes you happiest. If being in a relationship causes you that much pain for this, it depends on what level you are willing to work through things emotionally for it that would be worth for this relationship and to get over it. I don't really think any SO is ever worth it for this level of pain, while other people view it as a chance to grow and learn something new about themselves. Lots of great guys happen, but the best ones are the ones who bring out the best in you and don't cause pain in a way that is not in your control. It really depends on what stage of your individual journey you are on to decide what exactly you want from this relationship.
As for me - I think I would want to be emotionally intimate with my SO on a level where I feel he is really developing that with me and prioritizing that. I personally am not intimate on a level with my friends in the same way I am with an SO, but I also put a lot of effort in to have several close friends, and each of those several close friends, I talk to about different things that are deep and intimate for me. But I do not talk to any of them everyday, and I don't even talk to my mother everyday. The only person I talk to every day is whoever I am dating at the moment. I've been on the journey of trying to be accomodating, but then just realizing that I was playing an emotional second fiddle. I don't have time to be a supporting character in someone else's life.
posted by yueliang at 8:34 PM on July 15, 2018 [4 favorites]
As for me - I think I would want to be emotionally intimate with my SO on a level where I feel he is really developing that with me and prioritizing that. I personally am not intimate on a level with my friends in the same way I am with an SO, but I also put a lot of effort in to have several close friends, and each of those several close friends, I talk to about different things that are deep and intimate for me. But I do not talk to any of them everyday, and I don't even talk to my mother everyday. The only person I talk to every day is whoever I am dating at the moment. I've been on the journey of trying to be accomodating, but then just realizing that I was playing an emotional second fiddle. I don't have time to be a supporting character in someone else's life.
posted by yueliang at 8:34 PM on July 15, 2018 [4 favorites]
You and your new boyfriend have a basic incompatibility. You want to be the only woman in his life, the sole source of his emotional support and the receipient of any intensity or closeness he has to offer. You want to be his best friend. Or at the very least, you don't want his best friend to be his former romantic partner.
If you try to stick this out, you will have to consciously change your mindset. Here's a different perspective to consider: the things you admire and enjoy so much about your boyfriend, the qualities that make you think he's "the one," are due in part to this woman's presence in his life. He was romantically involved with her at a crucial developmental stage for men, and his continued relationship with her means she is still exerting a good influence on him. (And it is a great, positive sign that he sees women as full-fledged people, not merely potential bed partners.) His best friend helped make him the wonderful person he is today.
Your views are shaped by your own understanding of male/female friendships. How were male/female friendships between non-relatives modeled by the adults providing your formative influences? When you were growing up, were these relationships commonplace? Were they celebrated, or seen as infidelities waiting to happen? Have you ever believed you had close male friends, when in truth they were just biding their time for romantic or sexual opportunities? Do you have an ex who was unfaithful with someone he swore was just a friend? Were your previous romantic entanglements such debacles that you cannot imagine being best friends with an ex?
If you can honestly examine what's driving your discomfort, deliberately act to change your attitudes, and express genuine remorse for your controlling behavior, your new romance could be a success.
If you can't, let him go. He deserves better.
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:36 PM on July 15, 2018 [6 favorites]
If you try to stick this out, you will have to consciously change your mindset. Here's a different perspective to consider: the things you admire and enjoy so much about your boyfriend, the qualities that make you think he's "the one," are due in part to this woman's presence in his life. He was romantically involved with her at a crucial developmental stage for men, and his continued relationship with her means she is still exerting a good influence on him. (And it is a great, positive sign that he sees women as full-fledged people, not merely potential bed partners.) His best friend helped make him the wonderful person he is today.
Your views are shaped by your own understanding of male/female friendships. How were male/female friendships between non-relatives modeled by the adults providing your formative influences? When you were growing up, were these relationships commonplace? Were they celebrated, or seen as infidelities waiting to happen? Have you ever believed you had close male friends, when in truth they were just biding their time for romantic or sexual opportunities? Do you have an ex who was unfaithful with someone he swore was just a friend? Were your previous romantic entanglements such debacles that you cannot imagine being best friends with an ex?
If you can honestly examine what's driving your discomfort, deliberately act to change your attitudes, and express genuine remorse for your controlling behavior, your new romance could be a success.
If you can't, let him go. He deserves better.
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:36 PM on July 15, 2018 [6 favorites]
I could be wrong but this reads to me as though you’re looking for a test that will tell you whether this guy is serious about you and have landed on this particular issue as that test. Is that it? If that’s it, I recommend that you ask yourself whether there’s another way for you to get the reassurance you’re seeking, one that doesn’t take away an outside source of support from your partner. It’s not actually all that awesome being a person’s everything, in the long run.
posted by eirias at 9:15 PM on July 15, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by eirias at 9:15 PM on July 15, 2018 [6 favorites]
Man, just break up already. You don't trust him with this relationship, you suspect he loves her better than you. He might or might not, I don't know. It is a level of closeness that is likely to put new girlfriends off, though. Like "what would I bring to the relationship?" I think that some folks can manage this with SO's and exes and not have an issue. I'm not sure if you are right to be concerned/jealous or not, but I think the odds are at least 50/50 on that one. But you are categorically NOT OKAY with it and said so, and he doesn't want to break up with her. Either he can't have an SO and her too, or they get back together, or he finds some girl who doesn't have red flags going up, but this relationship isn't working for either of you.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:02 PM on July 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:02 PM on July 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
And let's maybe say that I am way out of his ''league''. He is very silent, not that good looking
Let this one go and let him find someone who loves him the way he is.
posted by Kwadeng at 10:44 PM on July 15, 2018 [13 favorites]
Let this one go and let him find someone who loves him the way he is.
posted by Kwadeng at 10:44 PM on July 15, 2018 [13 favorites]
If you think you're 'out of his league' (which, btw, is a terrible way to think of a romantic partner), why even date the guy? I get the distinct impression that you think he owes it to you to capitulate to your (to me, unreasonable) demands in part because of this. Sorry to be this blunt, but please end your relationship before it claims his healthy and appropriate friendship as a casualty as well.
posted by Nieshka at 10:56 PM on July 15, 2018 [10 favorites]
posted by Nieshka at 10:56 PM on July 15, 2018 [10 favorites]
And let's maybe say that I am way out of his ''league''... he is... not that good looking.
Okay, maybe let's not, because that is no grown-up way to think if you're looking for a serious relationship. That's a high-school hallway way to think and talk, and it's really, really cruel to talk about someone you actually (claim to) care about that way.
If you value him as a person, as you say, maybe you should try to stop appraising your own value on such a shallow calculus, too, in order to help you stop feeling like everything is so fragile. People might talk to you or date you a few times for your looks, but a relationship moves past that mattering very quickly... for both parties.
You probably have good qualities that make you worth dating, keeping, and cherishing. I don't know what these are, of course, but you might, and the sooner you realize that your looks are not any of them, the better for your own growth and happiness.
posted by rokusan at 12:15 AM on July 16, 2018 [5 favorites]
Okay, maybe let's not, because that is no grown-up way to think if you're looking for a serious relationship. That's a high-school hallway way to think and talk, and it's really, really cruel to talk about someone you actually (claim to) care about that way.
If you value him as a person, as you say, maybe you should try to stop appraising your own value on such a shallow calculus, too, in order to help you stop feeling like everything is so fragile. People might talk to you or date you a few times for your looks, but a relationship moves past that mattering very quickly... for both parties.
You probably have good qualities that make you worth dating, keeping, and cherishing. I don't know what these are, of course, but you might, and the sooner you realize that your looks are not any of them, the better for your own growth and happiness.
posted by rokusan at 12:15 AM on July 16, 2018 [5 favorites]
Since you left out your actual problem to be solved, I'm going to say what I think the problem is here. Your phrasing isn't just dreamy and unrealistic, you contradict yourself, which could be that you're not really seeing this whole thing very clearly (and that's fine, we've all been there).
* everything I was looking for
* we match on every single aspect of life
* he is the one for me
* I am way out of his ''league''
Except there's a lot that's isn't fine, and you obviously don't match on every single aspect (and that's a wildly unrealistic expectation). Obviously, this guy is not The One for you--and that type of thinking is not helpful, nor is putting people into leagues and stations and saying you're way above his because you're better looking than him.
Then, despite knowing about his best friend for a year, only one month into dating you decided to lay down your rules limiting his contact--knowing it upset him--and now, a month into dictating when he's allowed to see her, you're still unhappy because you can't lock this down even more.
It sort of seems that your relationship standards and expectations are way off and you would be doing this person a favor if you let them go.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 2:47 AM on July 16, 2018 [7 favorites]
* everything I was looking for
* we match on every single aspect of life
* he is the one for me
* I am way out of his ''league''
Except there's a lot that's isn't fine, and you obviously don't match on every single aspect (and that's a wildly unrealistic expectation). Obviously, this guy is not The One for you--and that type of thinking is not helpful, nor is putting people into leagues and stations and saying you're way above his because you're better looking than him.
Then, despite knowing about his best friend for a year, only one month into dating you decided to lay down your rules limiting his contact--knowing it upset him--and now, a month into dictating when he's allowed to see her, you're still unhappy because you can't lock this down even more.
It sort of seems that your relationship standards and expectations are way off and you would be doing this person a favor if you let them go.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 2:47 AM on July 16, 2018 [7 favorites]
I really believe that there is nothing going on between them.
so what then, is the problem?
posted by misanthropicsarah at 12:30 PM on July 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
so what then, is the problem?
posted by misanthropicsarah at 12:30 PM on July 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
You sound like a very controlling person who wants to dictate terms on which someone you've been dating for two months can see their best friend.
If the man you are dating had written a question asking if this was a red flag there would probably be a lot of answers of "yes" and "DTMFA" and "that's a warning of an abusive partner".
Do this guy a favor and break up with him, and then get some therapy for yourself. You are going down a bad road and you don't want this to become a pattern in your relationships.
posted by yohko at 12:55 PM on July 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
If the man you are dating had written a question asking if this was a red flag there would probably be a lot of answers of "yes" and "DTMFA" and "that's a warning of an abusive partner".
Do this guy a favor and break up with him, and then get some therapy for yourself. You are going down a bad road and you don't want this to become a pattern in your relationships.
posted by yohko at 12:55 PM on July 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
I agree with both yueliang and Iris on this (the part about 'Your views are shaped by your own understanding of male/female friendships' and exploring that, not the part that says you should him go because 'He deserves better' which is frankly very judgemental in my opinion. You have clearly shown empathy and self awareness by coming here to ask the question.
But yeah I'm mainly with yueling. My ex continually had very close secretive, emotional relationships with other women that were pretty much an every day thing and it definitely took away from the intimacy between the two of us.
The 'friendship' you describe between your boyfriend and his ex would probably not work for me, even the weekly meeting seems ott to me. Like, it has to be pencilled in EVERY week? I have some very close male friends, we catch up or take trips when we can and catch up each month or couple of months. Life is busy.
So I have to say, I've been through this and if I'm less of an enlightened being for not being cool with it then so be it. I want a partner who has valuable friendships but values nurturing our emotional bond above all others - so that there is a clear distinction between our relationship and his friendships with other women. I don't think this is the right relationship for you. Good luck.
posted by Willow251 at 4:02 PM on July 16, 2018 [4 favorites]
But yeah I'm mainly with yueling. My ex continually had very close secretive, emotional relationships with other women that were pretty much an every day thing and it definitely took away from the intimacy between the two of us.
The 'friendship' you describe between your boyfriend and his ex would probably not work for me, even the weekly meeting seems ott to me. Like, it has to be pencilled in EVERY week? I have some very close male friends, we catch up or take trips when we can and catch up each month or couple of months. Life is busy.
So I have to say, I've been through this and if I'm less of an enlightened being for not being cool with it then so be it. I want a partner who has valuable friendships but values nurturing our emotional bond above all others - so that there is a clear distinction between our relationship and his friendships with other women. I don't think this is the right relationship for you. Good luck.
posted by Willow251 at 4:02 PM on July 16, 2018 [4 favorites]
Just wanted to chime in and say that in my experience, being very close friends with an ex without going through a period of no contact first is unusual. Aspects of what you are describing sound like an emotional affair to me, and that would make me very uncomfortable. It's questionable whether or not he's really over it and ready to prioritize your relationship. Discomfort with this situation is a very valid, understandable feeling to have.
Sure, you don't get to tell him who he can be friends with, but you also don't need to emotionally contort yourself to fit into a situation that is not a good fit for you. It's completely reasonable to walk away and find someone who is not BFFs with a recent ex.
posted by jazzbaby at 7:56 AM on July 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
Sure, you don't get to tell him who he can be friends with, but you also don't need to emotionally contort yourself to fit into a situation that is not a good fit for you. It's completely reasonable to walk away and find someone who is not BFFs with a recent ex.
posted by jazzbaby at 7:56 AM on July 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
"you also don't need to emotionally contort yourself to fit into a situation that is not a good fit for you."
Yes yes yes, I agree with jazzbaby. I wish I understood this earlier with my previous relationship, when I ended up doing that all the time.
posted by yueliang at 10:41 AM on July 17, 2018
Yes yes yes, I agree with jazzbaby. I wish I understood this earlier with my previous relationship, when I ended up doing that all the time.
posted by yueliang at 10:41 AM on July 17, 2018
I'm best friends with an ex, I would and have prioritized a solid friendship over the likely temporary relationship with new partner, but have only ever had to do that once. Most of the exes I've had who met her really seemed to like her. I attended this ex's wedding recently, I had lived with her and her fiance for 8 months a bit before then. It's quite possible to be best friends with an ex without it being a weird precursor to a re-relationship.
"You probably have good qualities that make you worth dating, keeping, and cherishing. I don't know what these are, of course, but you might, and the sooner you realize that your looks are not any of them, the better for your own growth and happiness."
This seems like a very storybook way of looking at the world. Our species and tons of others on this planet are heavily influenced by sexual selection. It shouldn't be the only thing that factors into one's self perception or that of potential mates, but it feels incredibly disingenuous to act as though it were irrelevant.
posted by GoblinHoney at 12:17 PM on July 17, 2018
"You probably have good qualities that make you worth dating, keeping, and cherishing. I don't know what these are, of course, but you might, and the sooner you realize that your looks are not any of them, the better for your own growth and happiness."
This seems like a very storybook way of looking at the world. Our species and tons of others on this planet are heavily influenced by sexual selection. It shouldn't be the only thing that factors into one's self perception or that of potential mates, but it feels incredibly disingenuous to act as though it were irrelevant.
posted by GoblinHoney at 12:17 PM on July 17, 2018
You are not irrational. Your feelings are valid.
He is not respectful of your feelings. This is a problem.
Cut your losses.
posted by candasartan at 2:21 PM on July 17, 2018
He is not respectful of your feelings. This is a problem.
Cut your losses.
posted by candasartan at 2:21 PM on July 17, 2018
It makes me sad to hear so many people are so paranoid about their partner remaining friends with their exes.
An ex-boyfriend of mine is my best friend. I absolutely love him and think the world of him. I am married and have been with my husband for 5 years. He's the love of my life. I haven't been interested in getting back together with my ex at any point since we broke up. We weren't right as a couple but my goodness we're fantastic friends. When my mother died he was at the funeral and the impact that had on me was immense.
My husband would never dream of being jealous or asking me to end the friendship. I agree with what many others have said, I see a continuing friendship as a testament of the kind of person your partner is and that they can form lasting close bonds with other human beings.
You're too immature to be in a relationship and the way you talk about your boyfriend is egotistical and cruel. Please end the relationship and let him continue his friendship with someone who values him and his happiness.
posted by emotionalmotionsickness at 1:23 PM on July 25, 2018
An ex-boyfriend of mine is my best friend. I absolutely love him and think the world of him. I am married and have been with my husband for 5 years. He's the love of my life. I haven't been interested in getting back together with my ex at any point since we broke up. We weren't right as a couple but my goodness we're fantastic friends. When my mother died he was at the funeral and the impact that had on me was immense.
My husband would never dream of being jealous or asking me to end the friendship. I agree with what many others have said, I see a continuing friendship as a testament of the kind of person your partner is and that they can form lasting close bonds with other human beings.
You're too immature to be in a relationship and the way you talk about your boyfriend is egotistical and cruel. Please end the relationship and let him continue his friendship with someone who values him and his happiness.
posted by emotionalmotionsickness at 1:23 PM on July 25, 2018
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posted by k8t at 2:37 PM on July 15, 2018 [1 favorite]