How do I protect myself, while giving myself a chance at love?
May 30, 2018 10:57 AM Subscribe
I am in love with a girl, who also has feelings for me, but because of various traumas [TW], she isn't in a position to be in a relationship right now. We are long-distance, and it's not clear that she would want a traditional relationship even if those barriers went away. I spend significant time and energy on her and after our last visit, it's become clear that we need to set emotional boundaries to keep ourselves from getting hurt. How do we do that? Snowflakes inside.
My high school sweetheart and I reconnected last year, after a decade or so of occasionally bumping into each other, and now I'm head-over-heels, but she's not, and I don't know the healthiest way to approach this situation. We're both in our mid to late 20s.
Since we've reconnected, we've talked every day for about 8 months about both surface-level things, but also have very open, substantive, emotionally mature conversations about our lives, our relationship and our needs. We've discussed how we feel about each other extensively, so when I mention how she feels, it's based on what she's told me she feels, not my assumption of how she feels.
We live several states away from each other, and only really communicate over text, snapchat, and email. Since we've reconnected we've seen each other twice which were both good, if unexpectedly serious. We both have been in LDRs, so this isn't completely new to us, but the standard LDR issues apply.
We dated for several years in high school before I broke up with her for college because it was the Rational Thing To Do. I was in love with her then and regretted it almost immediately. I (as a teenager), didn't handle breaking up with her especially well and she rightfully hasn't yet grown to trust me completely, and harbors some hesitation and feelings of "what's to keep him from breaking up with me again?"
This is tied into an unfortunately large list of experiences she's had in the last year or so. She's been separately raped, assaulted and harassed enough to get a restraining order, all by men who were her friends. Then, this spring, the man who helped her significantly with coping and getting through those dark places, and that she was (eventually) dating, asked her to stop all contact via an email message. He didn't tell her why and she hasn't heard from him since.
She's recovering from those things and is progressing well, but she's not yet ready to be in a relationship and is nervous about letting me get too close (emotionally, romantically) in case I also leave her behind. She does completely trust me physically, but right now she's not ready for anything physical. Even before these experiences she was slow and skittish for relationships, which makes us getting together something to view over an expanded timeline.
I understand this, and have helped others with these sorts of trauma before, and have been willing to wait for her because, somewhere along the way, I fell back in love with her and can see us having a relationship that spans the decades. To me, a year or two of struggle is well worth spending my life with an incredible person who I'm deeply compatible with. This has meant that I haven't been romantic with anyone in almost a year and that I have spent increasing amounts of time and energy on her. I have made her my number one priority, and spend significant time on 'wooing' her in addition to tending to her needs as best I can (as a friend).
After her last visit and our conversations, she mentioned she's trying really hard not to lead me on, and that she's put up boundaries for herself to keep me at bay while she recovers (such as downplaying her feelings for me, not doing any extra gestures for me, etc). But she does have significant feelings for me, sees me as more than just a friend, and says we have incredible potential as a couple, etc, etc. She just isn't there.
I haven't put up boundaries, and after talking with her and with my friends, I realized this isn't healthy. I need to set some boundaries for myself.
My pursuit of her hasn't affected my work or my social life (beyond not pursuing other romance)—I'm very fortunate in my life with no significant issues of any kind, but I have thought of us getting together eventually as a sure thing, and have not protected myself at all to the possibility that we may never happen. It may not, and I need help steeling myself for that possibility. Her biggest concern is that no matter what happens between us romantically, that we can remain friends.
How can I do that? And what boundaries can I set for myself to keep her as more of a friend in my mind than a romance?
She asked me what boundaries I normally set for friends, and I told her I don't really, I just spend the time I want to on my friends. If I want to spend the time to do something nice for them, I do. It's just that I want to spend a *lot* of time on her. It feels difficult to set boundaries against things I want to do. And especially difficult because all my contact with her makes me feel more romantic toward her.
The hard, but obvious, solution is to reduce or cut our contact entirely. As someone in love I don't want to do that, and as a friend it would be extremely difficult for me to stop contacting someone who really values consistent communication and has trauma associated with people cutting contact with her.
This is compounded by another wrinkle: I have always been in exclusive relationships and that's been important to me because my parents divorced over infidelity. Since she's skittish over relationships, she recently told me that she sometimes prefers open relationships that let her see multiple people. To her, she needs to be really sure about someone before she commits to them, and open relationships help facilitate that. She does want to be married and monogamous once she's found someone to commit to, and has been in various states of monogamy/polygamy over the years. She craves exploring the emotional bond between people, and doesn't especially look or care about sexual stuff beyond cuddling.
I worry that I would be jealous in an open relationship, especially since it's LDR, and fearful that she would find someone with a deeper connection. I also don't know and have no experience navigating being in an open relationship myself—it feels morally fraught for me to enter into something with someone else when I'm in love with her, though I do see her perspective and could see myself potentially agreeing/enjoying being with someone while I wait for her.
She is about to spend a month in an area with limited cell phone access and will be staying with me for a night afterward, which gives us a natural time to reflect on these things and figure out what we should do. What should I be doing? Reading? Considering? What would you recommend? Thank you.
My high school sweetheart and I reconnected last year, after a decade or so of occasionally bumping into each other, and now I'm head-over-heels, but she's not, and I don't know the healthiest way to approach this situation. We're both in our mid to late 20s.
Since we've reconnected, we've talked every day for about 8 months about both surface-level things, but also have very open, substantive, emotionally mature conversations about our lives, our relationship and our needs. We've discussed how we feel about each other extensively, so when I mention how she feels, it's based on what she's told me she feels, not my assumption of how she feels.
We live several states away from each other, and only really communicate over text, snapchat, and email. Since we've reconnected we've seen each other twice which were both good, if unexpectedly serious. We both have been in LDRs, so this isn't completely new to us, but the standard LDR issues apply.
We dated for several years in high school before I broke up with her for college because it was the Rational Thing To Do. I was in love with her then and regretted it almost immediately. I (as a teenager), didn't handle breaking up with her especially well and she rightfully hasn't yet grown to trust me completely, and harbors some hesitation and feelings of "what's to keep him from breaking up with me again?"
This is tied into an unfortunately large list of experiences she's had in the last year or so. She's been separately raped, assaulted and harassed enough to get a restraining order, all by men who were her friends. Then, this spring, the man who helped her significantly with coping and getting through those dark places, and that she was (eventually) dating, asked her to stop all contact via an email message. He didn't tell her why and she hasn't heard from him since.
She's recovering from those things and is progressing well, but she's not yet ready to be in a relationship and is nervous about letting me get too close (emotionally, romantically) in case I also leave her behind. She does completely trust me physically, but right now she's not ready for anything physical. Even before these experiences she was slow and skittish for relationships, which makes us getting together something to view over an expanded timeline.
I understand this, and have helped others with these sorts of trauma before, and have been willing to wait for her because, somewhere along the way, I fell back in love with her and can see us having a relationship that spans the decades. To me, a year or two of struggle is well worth spending my life with an incredible person who I'm deeply compatible with. This has meant that I haven't been romantic with anyone in almost a year and that I have spent increasing amounts of time and energy on her. I have made her my number one priority, and spend significant time on 'wooing' her in addition to tending to her needs as best I can (as a friend).
After her last visit and our conversations, she mentioned she's trying really hard not to lead me on, and that she's put up boundaries for herself to keep me at bay while she recovers (such as downplaying her feelings for me, not doing any extra gestures for me, etc). But she does have significant feelings for me, sees me as more than just a friend, and says we have incredible potential as a couple, etc, etc. She just isn't there.
I haven't put up boundaries, and after talking with her and with my friends, I realized this isn't healthy. I need to set some boundaries for myself.
My pursuit of her hasn't affected my work or my social life (beyond not pursuing other romance)—I'm very fortunate in my life with no significant issues of any kind, but I have thought of us getting together eventually as a sure thing, and have not protected myself at all to the possibility that we may never happen. It may not, and I need help steeling myself for that possibility. Her biggest concern is that no matter what happens between us romantically, that we can remain friends.
How can I do that? And what boundaries can I set for myself to keep her as more of a friend in my mind than a romance?
She asked me what boundaries I normally set for friends, and I told her I don't really, I just spend the time I want to on my friends. If I want to spend the time to do something nice for them, I do. It's just that I want to spend a *lot* of time on her. It feels difficult to set boundaries against things I want to do. And especially difficult because all my contact with her makes me feel more romantic toward her.
The hard, but obvious, solution is to reduce or cut our contact entirely. As someone in love I don't want to do that, and as a friend it would be extremely difficult for me to stop contacting someone who really values consistent communication and has trauma associated with people cutting contact with her.
This is compounded by another wrinkle: I have always been in exclusive relationships and that's been important to me because my parents divorced over infidelity. Since she's skittish over relationships, she recently told me that she sometimes prefers open relationships that let her see multiple people. To her, she needs to be really sure about someone before she commits to them, and open relationships help facilitate that. She does want to be married and monogamous once she's found someone to commit to, and has been in various states of monogamy/polygamy over the years. She craves exploring the emotional bond between people, and doesn't especially look or care about sexual stuff beyond cuddling.
I worry that I would be jealous in an open relationship, especially since it's LDR, and fearful that she would find someone with a deeper connection. I also don't know and have no experience navigating being in an open relationship myself—it feels morally fraught for me to enter into something with someone else when I'm in love with her, though I do see her perspective and could see myself potentially agreeing/enjoying being with someone while I wait for her.
She is about to spend a month in an area with limited cell phone access and will be staying with me for a night afterward, which gives us a natural time to reflect on these things and figure out what we should do. What should I be doing? Reading? Considering? What would you recommend? Thank you.
She's just not that into you.
posted by all about eevee at 11:13 AM on May 30, 2018 [11 favorites]
posted by all about eevee at 11:13 AM on May 30, 2018 [11 favorites]
All she's saying is "no" and all you're hearing is "maybe!!!" (To me, a year or two of struggle is well worth spending my life with an incredible person who I'm deeply compatible with). I would use the month apart to work through this rejection, and find a way to move forward pursuing partners who are available.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:35 AM on May 30, 2018 [18 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:35 AM on May 30, 2018 [18 favorites]
...she's not yet ready to be in a relationship...
Code or not, this is your answer. Sorry.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:40 AM on May 30, 2018 [7 favorites]
Code or not, this is your answer. Sorry.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:40 AM on May 30, 2018 [7 favorites]
No, oh my, no no no no no. Just no.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:43 AM on May 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:43 AM on May 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
After her last visit and our conversations, she mentioned she's trying really hard not to lead me on, and that she's put up boundaries for herself to keep me at bay while she recovers (such as downplaying her feelings for me, not doing any extra gestures for me, etc). But she does have significant feelings for me, sees me as more than just a friend, and says we have incredible potential as a couple, etc, etc. She just isn't there.
she ain't gonna be there. the details aren't mine to share but just trust me on this.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:45 AM on May 30, 2018 [5 favorites]
she ain't gonna be there. the details aren't mine to share but just trust me on this.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:45 AM on May 30, 2018 [5 favorites]
and now I'm head-over-heels, but she's not
This is it.
She's telling you in a variety of ways that she isn't interested. Women are often socialized not to feel comfortable rejecting Men outright. Often men don't or won't take no for an answer so we are naturally conditioned to try and "let them down gently" or reject them in ways that don't have negative physical ramifications for us. So she says she doesn't want to be with you, but also leaves it vague enough that it gives you hope.
It seems to me that she has given you MULTIPLE reasons as to why she isn't keen to start anything romantic with you, and I don't think you are hearing her.
She has told you that she has been harassed by "friends" and here you are, potentially in danger of harassing her too but not taking no for an answer and trying to pursue something she doesn't want.
In one breath you say you are "deeply compatible" and then you say that you insist on monogamy and she wants an open relationship. So, you are asking what you should do? The answer is that you should listen to her and be a friend but DON'T expect anything more than that.
posted by JenThePro at 11:53 AM on May 30, 2018 [6 favorites]
This is it.
She's telling you in a variety of ways that she isn't interested. Women are often socialized not to feel comfortable rejecting Men outright. Often men don't or won't take no for an answer so we are naturally conditioned to try and "let them down gently" or reject them in ways that don't have negative physical ramifications for us. So she says she doesn't want to be with you, but also leaves it vague enough that it gives you hope.
It seems to me that she has given you MULTIPLE reasons as to why she isn't keen to start anything romantic with you, and I don't think you are hearing her.
She has told you that she has been harassed by "friends" and here you are, potentially in danger of harassing her too but not taking no for an answer and trying to pursue something she doesn't want.
In one breath you say you are "deeply compatible" and then you say that you insist on monogamy and she wants an open relationship. So, you are asking what you should do? The answer is that you should listen to her and be a friend but DON'T expect anything more than that.
posted by JenThePro at 11:53 AM on May 30, 2018 [6 favorites]
You're someone she trusts and feels comfortable confiding in, and hopes you could be that person without the expectation of anything more. You're romantically interested and have lingering feelings from back then so you're not that person unless you can shelve those feelings, possibly forever, and not have it affect your well-being in your ongoing interactions.
If you want a chance at love, it's likely not here.
posted by mikeh at 11:54 AM on May 30, 2018 [2 favorites]
If you want a chance at love, it's likely not here.
posted by mikeh at 11:54 AM on May 30, 2018 [2 favorites]
Everyone's clear it's a no it sounds like, including them--
>>And what boundaries can I set for myself to keep her as more of a friend in my mind than a romance?
Less contact and finding someone new is the only advice I can give, sorry Bud.
posted by matrixclown at 12:03 PM on May 30, 2018 [2 favorites]
>>And what boundaries can I set for myself to keep her as more of a friend in my mind than a romance?
Less contact and finding someone new is the only advice I can give, sorry Bud.
posted by matrixclown at 12:03 PM on May 30, 2018 [2 favorites]
The hard, but obvious, solution is to reduce or cut our contact entirely.
There is another option that isn't this scorched-earth solution that will hurt you both, and I think it's the one you should take: DATE OTHER PEOPLE. Meet people who are not her. Sign up for Bumble or OK Cupid and go on some dates. Have a life that isn't wrapped up in this friendship. If you are indeed a very, very monogamous person, you will find that your energy can go more fruitfully into another relationship - one that is mutual.
posted by capricorn at 12:05 PM on May 30, 2018 [18 favorites]
There is another option that isn't this scorched-earth solution that will hurt you both, and I think it's the one you should take: DATE OTHER PEOPLE. Meet people who are not her. Sign up for Bumble or OK Cupid and go on some dates. Have a life that isn't wrapped up in this friendship. If you are indeed a very, very monogamous person, you will find that your energy can go more fruitfully into another relationship - one that is mutual.
posted by capricorn at 12:05 PM on May 30, 2018 [18 favorites]
The ship is not coming in, the ship is a plane, like a flat friction-less plane. Super not a ship.
She's not your girlfriend. You're not her friend with pure intentions.
Date elsewhere and see where that leads you.
posted by French Fry at 12:14 PM on May 30, 2018
She's not your girlfriend. You're not her friend with pure intentions.
Date elsewhere and see where that leads you.
posted by French Fry at 12:14 PM on May 30, 2018
I agree with others that it doesn't sound like you are compatible at all - especially the monogamy/non-mono thing! I feel like you've built a castle in the sky here. You dated a decade ago, when you were teenagers. You have both changed immensely since that time. You don't live in the same place and haven't spent any substantial time together. You don't know this person on a day in, day out basis - you don't know that you are compatible.
Secondly, it definitely sounds like she isn't into you but is trying to keep you as a good friend. I know because I have done that with men before, and in very similar ways.
I feel bad for you because you sound thoughtful, but you are not able to see this situation clearly.
posted by thereader at 12:18 PM on May 30, 2018
Secondly, it definitely sounds like she isn't into you but is trying to keep you as a good friend. I know because I have done that with men before, and in very similar ways.
I feel bad for you because you sound thoughtful, but you are not able to see this situation clearly.
posted by thereader at 12:18 PM on May 30, 2018
the chronology may not be complete or completely known to you, but from this snapshot of her it sounds like she has not ever had a good relationship with a boy or man that ended amicably on her own terms. including you, who didn't abuse her but who did break up with her while still loving her: so she knows in a way that she won't soon forget that love is not enough. she had a nice high school boyfriend who dumped her. not too bad by itself. then, several terrible abusers who committed crimes against her. then, a good friend she trusted who suddenly dumped her. She has proof that affection and trust on her end is no guarantee of anything from the man's end. you were not the worst but the first in that awful string.
because look, you present her romantic history as if she's never had a single good boyfriend. in which case, you're asking her to, after getting through all this trauma, turn back the clock all the way to when she was barely adult; to go backwards not forwards. that's what old boyfriends represent: the past. not your fault, but they do. And if she did have any good boyfriends in the last decade that you left out of the story, that is a highly significant erasure.
the business about having 'helped' other people with trauma is also a little sketchy. the problem with having a helper complex is it requires other people, usually women, to need help. to be in distress. but what would be good for her, and what she seems to want, is to not need your help. she doesn't need to to make herself vulnerable (i.e. able to be wounded) in order to let a man prove his maturity and improved faithfulness. she needs less vulnerability: control and less worry over abandonment. if I were her friend and she said she was going to spend the night with you, I would bite my own tongue off to keep from telling her what I thought about that. but she'd see it in my eyes anyway.
and stop saving yourself for her, that's distasteful pressure if she knows about it. don't date if you don't want to but don't try to factor her into that decision, it's not her problem.
posted by queenofbithynia at 12:34 PM on May 30, 2018 [13 favorites]
because look, you present her romantic history as if she's never had a single good boyfriend. in which case, you're asking her to, after getting through all this trauma, turn back the clock all the way to when she was barely adult; to go backwards not forwards. that's what old boyfriends represent: the past. not your fault, but they do. And if she did have any good boyfriends in the last decade that you left out of the story, that is a highly significant erasure.
the business about having 'helped' other people with trauma is also a little sketchy. the problem with having a helper complex is it requires other people, usually women, to need help. to be in distress. but what would be good for her, and what she seems to want, is to not need your help. she doesn't need to to make herself vulnerable (i.e. able to be wounded) in order to let a man prove his maturity and improved faithfulness. she needs less vulnerability: control and less worry over abandonment. if I were her friend and she said she was going to spend the night with you, I would bite my own tongue off to keep from telling her what I thought about that. but she'd see it in my eyes anyway.
and stop saving yourself for her, that's distasteful pressure if she knows about it. don't date if you don't want to but don't try to factor her into that decision, it's not her problem.
posted by queenofbithynia at 12:34 PM on May 30, 2018 [13 favorites]
Great comments so far. I want to address this:
have been willing to wait for her because, somewhere along the way, I fell back in love with her and can see us having a relationship that spans the decades. To me, a year or two of struggle is well worth spending my life with an incredible person who I'm deeply compatible with. This has meant that I haven't been romantic with anyone in almost a year and that I have spent increasing amounts of time and energy on her. I have made her my number one priority, and spend significant time on 'wooing' her in addition to tending to her needs as best I can (as a friend).
Waiting for someone is this context is not healthy. You guys have a history, in which you admittedly didn't break up with her in a healthy way, creating trust issues for her. You're putting more time and energy into her, making her your number one priority, wooing her, and... for what? She's told you, maybe not in these exact words, that she's not emotionally available to have a relationship with you.
You're also asking "what boundaries can I set for myself to keep her as more of a friend in my mind than a romance?" You start thinking of her as a friend. You limit contact, as others have suggested. You stop "waiting" for her. Waiting is not some romantic thing like you see in the movies. Waiting puts a lot of pressure on the person, and makes them feel like they have to be a certain way in order to have a certain relationship that the other person wants, not what they want. They have to have the space to learn and grow in their own way, WITHOUT having the other person "waiting" in the wings to swoop in and relationship them up. That isn't what they need. It's highly possible that after all the learning and growing that they did, they'll no longer fit the image that you have been holding onto while you were waiting. Waiting keeps you stuck. It's like putting a deadline on her personal growth, waiting for her to be done and ready for the relationship you've kept in your mind all this time. It just won't work.
I know this is hard and you really feel like you're in love... but you have to move on. For her sake, and for yours as well.
So for the next month, I would say to just live your life, and maybe find a therapist to talk about this. I also don't think it's a good idea to have her stay over either - that's not a healthy boundary.
posted by foxjacket at 1:28 PM on May 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
have been willing to wait for her because, somewhere along the way, I fell back in love with her and can see us having a relationship that spans the decades. To me, a year or two of struggle is well worth spending my life with an incredible person who I'm deeply compatible with. This has meant that I haven't been romantic with anyone in almost a year and that I have spent increasing amounts of time and energy on her. I have made her my number one priority, and spend significant time on 'wooing' her in addition to tending to her needs as best I can (as a friend).
Waiting for someone is this context is not healthy. You guys have a history, in which you admittedly didn't break up with her in a healthy way, creating trust issues for her. You're putting more time and energy into her, making her your number one priority, wooing her, and... for what? She's told you, maybe not in these exact words, that she's not emotionally available to have a relationship with you.
You're also asking "what boundaries can I set for myself to keep her as more of a friend in my mind than a romance?" You start thinking of her as a friend. You limit contact, as others have suggested. You stop "waiting" for her. Waiting is not some romantic thing like you see in the movies. Waiting puts a lot of pressure on the person, and makes them feel like they have to be a certain way in order to have a certain relationship that the other person wants, not what they want. They have to have the space to learn and grow in their own way, WITHOUT having the other person "waiting" in the wings to swoop in and relationship them up. That isn't what they need. It's highly possible that after all the learning and growing that they did, they'll no longer fit the image that you have been holding onto while you were waiting. Waiting keeps you stuck. It's like putting a deadline on her personal growth, waiting for her to be done and ready for the relationship you've kept in your mind all this time. It just won't work.
I know this is hard and you really feel like you're in love... but you have to move on. For her sake, and for yours as well.
So for the next month, I would say to just live your life, and maybe find a therapist to talk about this. I also don't think it's a good idea to have her stay over either - that's not a healthy boundary.
posted by foxjacket at 1:28 PM on May 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
She's saying no. You're just not hearing it.
This question and answers might be helpful to you, or just check out FAMOUS MONSTER's oft-quoted answer.
e.g., ...she's not ready for a relationship with you
...she's not ready for anything physical with you
posted by tuesdayschild at 1:31 PM on May 30, 2018 [3 favorites]
This question and answers might be helpful to you, or just check out FAMOUS MONSTER's oft-quoted answer.
e.g., ...she's not ready for a relationship with you
...she's not ready for anything physical with you
posted by tuesdayschild at 1:31 PM on May 30, 2018 [3 favorites]
Like capricorn, I don't think your only options are scorched-earth. But thinking this through starts with believing what your once/would-be sweetheart is saying. She values your friendship, your connection, she sees relationship potential with you but she's working out some stuff and the relationship you want is not in the cards until she works it out. That can be an excuse, that can be a real thing, but either way it means there's a notable chance the relationship you want will not come out of this.
So, what do you do about it? Well, what do you want to happen? Probably you want to maximize the chance that you end up in a relationship you value and enjoy. There's some fraction of a probability this could by that relationship, but right now it is not that relationship, whether it ever changes. So you need to do work to find that relationship elsewhere.
Do you keep putting work into this relationship, as a friend or more-than-friend in the meanwhile? That's honestly mostly about your comfort level and your skill in managing the fine points of modest boundaries. I'm a little worried about that reading your post because it seems to me you indicate you *don't* usually set boundaries with friends other than as indicated by your feelings, and then of course there's the whole monogamy/non-monogamy difference for beginning the relationship, but that may be extrapolating and the only person who can decide how you're doing with managing middle-way boundaries is you.
A note about the monogamy/non-monogamy thing, though -- it may be the distance here is not so big as it might seem. She sounds more non-exclusive in beginning approach than fundamentally non-monogamous to me. If she's to be believed it sounds like you both have the same ultimate destination in mind but different journeys to get there, which can be tense but maybe navigable. Also it kindof sounds like both you and her have arrived at your relative positions on the matter out of fear of a particular kind of personal disaster rather than out of a positively conceived sense of your own values. That's not entirely without justification: being left out because you were valued less is such a human fear, having your heart crushed suuucks, and that's leaving alone risks beyond emotional risks. But a lot of the best things come by willing to bear some risks (and there is no such thing as a risk-free choice or life). If you have a positive purpose to focus on in dating non-exclusively for a while -- whether that's opening up the field of possibilities, finding someone else you want to focus on, or just enjoying what you can share with people and what they can share with you, whatever it might be -- then you might find you enjoy it and find it productive even if the ultimate goal is an exclusive relationship.
Or you don't, and you learn that about yourself. And either that means you find someone else to focus on or you don't. And in the meanwhile, either would-be sweetheart puts her puzzle pieces in place or she doesn't, but in any case, you haven't just let life go by and your left your heart hanging on the line of one person's choices.
posted by wildblueyonder at 1:31 PM on May 30, 2018 [2 favorites]
So, what do you do about it? Well, what do you want to happen? Probably you want to maximize the chance that you end up in a relationship you value and enjoy. There's some fraction of a probability this could by that relationship, but right now it is not that relationship, whether it ever changes. So you need to do work to find that relationship elsewhere.
Do you keep putting work into this relationship, as a friend or more-than-friend in the meanwhile? That's honestly mostly about your comfort level and your skill in managing the fine points of modest boundaries. I'm a little worried about that reading your post because it seems to me you indicate you *don't* usually set boundaries with friends other than as indicated by your feelings, and then of course there's the whole monogamy/non-monogamy difference for beginning the relationship, but that may be extrapolating and the only person who can decide how you're doing with managing middle-way boundaries is you.
A note about the monogamy/non-monogamy thing, though -- it may be the distance here is not so big as it might seem. She sounds more non-exclusive in beginning approach than fundamentally non-monogamous to me. If she's to be believed it sounds like you both have the same ultimate destination in mind but different journeys to get there, which can be tense but maybe navigable. Also it kindof sounds like both you and her have arrived at your relative positions on the matter out of fear of a particular kind of personal disaster rather than out of a positively conceived sense of your own values. That's not entirely without justification: being left out because you were valued less is such a human fear, having your heart crushed suuucks, and that's leaving alone risks beyond emotional risks. But a lot of the best things come by willing to bear some risks (and there is no such thing as a risk-free choice or life). If you have a positive purpose to focus on in dating non-exclusively for a while -- whether that's opening up the field of possibilities, finding someone else you want to focus on, or just enjoying what you can share with people and what they can share with you, whatever it might be -- then you might find you enjoy it and find it productive even if the ultimate goal is an exclusive relationship.
Or you don't, and you learn that about yourself. And either that means you find someone else to focus on or you don't. And in the meanwhile, either would-be sweetheart puts her puzzle pieces in place or she doesn't, but in any case, you haven't just let life go by and your left your heart hanging on the line of one person's choices.
posted by wildblueyonder at 1:31 PM on May 30, 2018 [2 favorites]
as a friend it would be extremely difficult for me to stop contacting someone who really values consistent communication and has trauma associated with people cutting contact with her.
this is an excuse to martyr yourself. how to avoid compounding her trauma? really easy. don't suddenly go no-contact like the other guy. don't shift from friendly conversation to opaque legalese. don't go lower-contact without warning. tell her before you stop calling every day, not after. tell her why.
people with significant trauma histories have to, and can, handle slowly cooling friendships. a sudden unexplained formal no-contact email order is nothing like that. of course that's upsetting, so don't do it that way. "consistent communication" doesn't mean that once you start talking to her you can't ever stop or change how you do it. you are even free to leave her again, should she ever date you again. working out under what circumstances you would do this would be a highly useful exercise to gauge your sense of realism. Hopefully you have not already promised her that you would never, ever do such a thing, but
some hesitation and feelings of "what's to keep him from breaking up with me again?"
sort of amazing I didn't even notice that you didn't answer that in your question. What is to keep you from breaking up with her again?
posted by queenofbithynia at 2:03 PM on May 30, 2018 [6 favorites]
this is an excuse to martyr yourself. how to avoid compounding her trauma? really easy. don't suddenly go no-contact like the other guy. don't shift from friendly conversation to opaque legalese. don't go lower-contact without warning. tell her before you stop calling every day, not after. tell her why.
people with significant trauma histories have to, and can, handle slowly cooling friendships. a sudden unexplained formal no-contact email order is nothing like that. of course that's upsetting, so don't do it that way. "consistent communication" doesn't mean that once you start talking to her you can't ever stop or change how you do it. you are even free to leave her again, should she ever date you again. working out under what circumstances you would do this would be a highly useful exercise to gauge your sense of realism. Hopefully you have not already promised her that you would never, ever do such a thing, but
some hesitation and feelings of "what's to keep him from breaking up with me again?"
sort of amazing I didn't even notice that you didn't answer that in your question. What is to keep you from breaking up with her again?
posted by queenofbithynia at 2:03 PM on May 30, 2018 [6 favorites]
What should I be doing? Reading? Considering?
Watch romantic comedies. If there's one thing you'll learn from watching romcoms, it's that you can't make somebody fall in love with you. All you can do is stalk them until you wear them down and they give in.
Sorry, what was the question again?
What would you recommend?
Not stalking her.
posted by flabdablet at 12:52 AM on May 31, 2018
Watch romantic comedies. If there's one thing you'll learn from watching romcoms, it's that you can't make somebody fall in love with you. All you can do is stalk them until you wear them down and they give in.
Sorry, what was the question again?
What would you recommend?
Not stalking her.
posted by flabdablet at 12:52 AM on May 31, 2018
It really looks like you're over-romanticizing this and imagining yourself as the white knight who's going to save her. She's TELLING YOU she doesn't want to date; I don't know why you're refusing to accept that. There's something about the way that you've got this phrased that, to me, indicates you're not really respecting her boundaries or seeing this very clearly. I would bet she's asking about friend-boundaries to get you you to recognize that, at best, she only wants you as a friend, but you're not seeing it.
I have made her my number one priority, and spend significant time on 'wooing' her in addition to tending to her needs as best I can (as a friend).
Stop wooing her--she's told you she doesn't want to date and acting like her friend while secretly hoping for a relationship that spans the decades is pretty manipulative and dishonest. You're not in love with her, she's your high school ex, it all happened a decade ago, you need to let it go and stop hoping for some future together.
Then, this spring, the man who helped her significantly with coping and getting through those dark places, and that she was (eventually) dating, asked her to stop all contact via an email message. He didn't tell her why and she hasn't heard from him since.
This is literally the scenario that you're setting yourself up for and it's not going to end well.
Do not have her spend a night with you. You need to stop thinking you're in love, stop planning for a LDR that she says won't happen, and let her figure out her life without you.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 4:12 AM on May 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
I have made her my number one priority, and spend significant time on 'wooing' her in addition to tending to her needs as best I can (as a friend).
Stop wooing her--she's told you she doesn't want to date and acting like her friend while secretly hoping for a relationship that spans the decades is pretty manipulative and dishonest. You're not in love with her, she's your high school ex, it all happened a decade ago, you need to let it go and stop hoping for some future together.
Then, this spring, the man who helped her significantly with coping and getting through those dark places, and that she was (eventually) dating, asked her to stop all contact via an email message. He didn't tell her why and she hasn't heard from him since.
This is literally the scenario that you're setting yourself up for and it's not going to end well.
Do not have her spend a night with you. You need to stop thinking you're in love, stop planning for a LDR that she says won't happen, and let her figure out her life without you.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 4:12 AM on May 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
“I don’t want to lead you on” may be code for “this guy is way too into me and I have to be gentle because I don’t know what he will do if I make him angry or sad.” Plus you’re already not giving her space so she may already feel smothered or stalked.
Leave her alone completely. She doesn’t want a relationship. If she does - she can contact you first.
posted by Crystalinne at 12:03 PM on May 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
Leave her alone completely. She doesn’t want a relationship. If she does - she can contact you first.
posted by Crystalinne at 12:03 PM on May 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
I have a totally different read on all of this...
the man who helped her significantly with coping and getting through those dark places, and that she was (eventually) dating, asked her to stop all contact via an email message. He didn't tell her why and she hasn't heard from him since.
She has a pattern of becoming romantically and emotially entangled/involved with men that she doesn't consider long term partners. This man appears to have been in the very same position you are in now, and decided to cut contact for his well being, this should be obvious to her.
And it appears as though she avoids facing this because...
she sometimes prefers open relationships that let her see multiple people. To her, she needs to be really sure about someone before she commits to them, and open relationships help facilitate that. She does want to be married and monogamous once she's found someone to commit to, and has been in various states of monogamy/polygamy over the years.
And she also wants relationship to be and progress on her own terms and only as she sees fit for personal risks and safety.
With this part being of particular relevance:
She craves exploring the emotional bond between people, and doesn't especially look or care about sexual stuff beyond cuddling.
Because:
It makes absolutely no sense that she is capable and desirous of This Thing in light of all of her stated Reasons for not wanting to get close to or commit to you,
And because:
She doesn't trust you to be/follow irrational/irrationality:
I broke up with her for college because it was the Rational Thing To Do...
She didn't handle breaking up with her especially well and she rightfully hasn't yet grown to trust me completely.
And she is being irrational for both not trusting you to be irrational, not handling breakups well, and not understanding that it is also irrational to not understand that no relationship ever is or will be free of this(excuse):
harbors some hesitation and feelings of "what's to keep him from breaking up with me again?
Also:
We're both in our mid to late 20s
Of the age and maturity that she should be dealing with these issues and addressing them instead of getting you or others to "help" facilitate avoiding having to deal with them for her.
Other supporting statements of this she's made are the conflicting ones of:
1a.
nervous about letting me get too close (emotionally, romantically) in case I also leave her behind
And
we...have very open, substantive, emotionally mature conversations about our lives, our relationship and our needs. We've discussed how we feel about each other extensively,
2a
she's trying really hard not to lead me on... She just isn't there.
And
she does have significant feelings for me, sees me as more than just a friend, and says we have incredible potential as a couple, etc, etc.
1&2a. vs..
3a.
she's put up boundaries for herself to keep me at bay while she recovers such as downplaying her feelings for me,
4a.
She asked me what boundaries I normally set for friends
And
Her biggest concern is that no matter what happens between us romantically, that we can remain friends
And
We've seen each other twice, which were both good but unexpectedly serious.
It sounds resoundingly like the reasons for her open relationships are her own lack of boundaries with friends.
You're also being quite irrational now yourself as in,
1b.
it feels morally fraught for me to enter into something with someone else when I'm in love with her,
While,
I do see her perspective and could see myself potentially agreeing/enjoying being with someone while I wait for her.
2b.
especially difficult because all my contact with her makes me feel more romantic toward her
And,
The hard, but obvious, solution is to reduce or cut our contact entirely
3b.
as a friend it would be extremely difficult for me to stop contacting someone who really values consistent communication and has trauma associated with people cutting contact with her.
And
It feels difficult to set boundaries against things I want to do...
How can I do that?
And how,
4b.
what boundaries can I set for myself to keep her as more of a friend in my mind than a romance?
Goes against all of your stated actions and intentions here.
I believe also you've answered your own question here in 2b. And are very much confusing her a. Needs, Wants and Desires for the issue at hand here despite the fact that they all directly conflict with all of your own b. Needs, Wants and Desires.
Your wanting to help her with her trauma and tend to all of her needs as a friend is maybe also something you want to look into as a possible boundary or codependent issue for yourself.
posted by OnefortheLast at 2:36 PM on May 31, 2018
the man who helped her significantly with coping and getting through those dark places, and that she was (eventually) dating, asked her to stop all contact via an email message. He didn't tell her why and she hasn't heard from him since.
She has a pattern of becoming romantically and emotially entangled/involved with men that she doesn't consider long term partners. This man appears to have been in the very same position you are in now, and decided to cut contact for his well being, this should be obvious to her.
And it appears as though she avoids facing this because...
she sometimes prefers open relationships that let her see multiple people. To her, she needs to be really sure about someone before she commits to them, and open relationships help facilitate that. She does want to be married and monogamous once she's found someone to commit to, and has been in various states of monogamy/polygamy over the years.
And she also wants relationship to be and progress on her own terms and only as she sees fit for personal risks and safety.
With this part being of particular relevance:
She craves exploring the emotional bond between people, and doesn't especially look or care about sexual stuff beyond cuddling.
Because:
It makes absolutely no sense that she is capable and desirous of This Thing in light of all of her stated Reasons for not wanting to get close to or commit to you,
And because:
She doesn't trust you to be/follow irrational/irrationality:
I broke up with her for college because it was the Rational Thing To Do...
She didn't handle breaking up with her especially well and she rightfully hasn't yet grown to trust me completely.
And she is being irrational for both not trusting you to be irrational, not handling breakups well, and not understanding that it is also irrational to not understand that no relationship ever is or will be free of this(excuse):
harbors some hesitation and feelings of "what's to keep him from breaking up with me again?
Also:
We're both in our mid to late 20s
Of the age and maturity that she should be dealing with these issues and addressing them instead of getting you or others to "help" facilitate avoiding having to deal with them for her.
Other supporting statements of this she's made are the conflicting ones of:
1a.
nervous about letting me get too close (emotionally, romantically) in case I also leave her behind
And
we...have very open, substantive, emotionally mature conversations about our lives, our relationship and our needs. We've discussed how we feel about each other extensively,
2a
she's trying really hard not to lead me on... She just isn't there.
And
she does have significant feelings for me, sees me as more than just a friend, and says we have incredible potential as a couple, etc, etc.
1&2a. vs..
3a.
she's put up boundaries for herself to keep me at bay while she recovers such as downplaying her feelings for me,
4a.
She asked me what boundaries I normally set for friends
And
Her biggest concern is that no matter what happens between us romantically, that we can remain friends
And
We've seen each other twice, which were both good but unexpectedly serious.
It sounds resoundingly like the reasons for her open relationships are her own lack of boundaries with friends.
You're also being quite irrational now yourself as in,
1b.
it feels morally fraught for me to enter into something with someone else when I'm in love with her,
While,
I do see her perspective and could see myself potentially agreeing/enjoying being with someone while I wait for her.
2b.
especially difficult because all my contact with her makes me feel more romantic toward her
And,
The hard, but obvious, solution is to reduce or cut our contact entirely
3b.
as a friend it would be extremely difficult for me to stop contacting someone who really values consistent communication and has trauma associated with people cutting contact with her.
And
It feels difficult to set boundaries against things I want to do...
How can I do that?
And how,
4b.
what boundaries can I set for myself to keep her as more of a friend in my mind than a romance?
Goes against all of your stated actions and intentions here.
I believe also you've answered your own question here in 2b. And are very much confusing her a. Needs, Wants and Desires for the issue at hand here despite the fact that they all directly conflict with all of your own b. Needs, Wants and Desires.
Your wanting to help her with her trauma and tend to all of her needs as a friend is maybe also something you want to look into as a possible boundary or codependent issue for yourself.
posted by OnefortheLast at 2:36 PM on May 31, 2018
I guess to sum it up easily for you, by your description, you are already in an open relationship with this woman. Though she has used a great big mess of airy-fairy esoteric woo "communication" to convince you that should you continue to prevail performing adequately to serve and accommodate all of her wants, needs and desires, you may possibly be then rewarded with simple acknowledgment of the fact that you're already in an open relationship with this woman. Should you then continue this exact same situation that isn't working for you, through further months, years or decades, you may then be placed in consideration alongside all of her other open relationship partners, for the potential possibility of one day earning her commitment, because she's presented herself as some kind of damaged fragile special snowflake who "needs" the undying and effervescent meeting of her Needs, help, support and unconditional love of a special snowflake hero of a man with white knight syndrome to unlock her "love," or rather, her ability to adult in a monogamous relationship.
So this may be an unkind interpretation of events, or it may be why other men who are or were in your very position, went full no contact with no explanation on her.
Who knows, but since your "clear deep and meaningful communication" with this woman has left you with so many unanswered questions, you're likely going to have to guess your own answer here anyways, and I'm betting that this one, though it may or may not be a full, truthful and accurate assessment of the dilemma, will best aid you in moving on from an impossible "relationship."
posted by OnefortheLast at 6:12 PM on May 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
So this may be an unkind interpretation of events, or it may be why other men who are or were in your very position, went full no contact with no explanation on her.
Who knows, but since your "clear deep and meaningful communication" with this woman has left you with so many unanswered questions, you're likely going to have to guess your own answer here anyways, and I'm betting that this one, though it may or may not be a full, truthful and accurate assessment of the dilemma, will best aid you in moving on from an impossible "relationship."
posted by OnefortheLast at 6:12 PM on May 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by xingcat at 11:13 AM on May 30, 2018 [27 favorites]