How to support my quirky kid toward independence
May 7, 2018 7:43 PM Subscribe
My 15 year old has never been successful in school. What should we do?
My kid is great - creative, super bright, empathetic and curious. She's also got lots of characteristics that have thusfar made school bad for her: she's autistic, has ADHD, is a queerdo and although she loves people she has always been very challenged socially, both in large groups and one-one-one and has a hard time making or keeping friends. She has also always gotten into huge power struggles with authorities that Do Not End Well. When she was a little kid she would lash out by yelling or sometimes physically. As she's become older, she's turned her feelings inward and struggled with depression. As a result of all this, school has ALWAYS sucked. And we've tried ALL the schools: Montessori, charter, large public, small public, small private, smaller private, free school, STEM school, everything. Nothing has been a good fit and ultimately, her last school kicked her out and this year we had to try homeschooling which ALSO has not been going well because I have to literally sit right next to her or she will not do any work. Internal motivation/organization is very, very limited.
We've got a lot of good supports on board: She is on the right meds, has a therapist, meditates, does a martial art and has lots of opportunities to connect socially, so this question is not about that.
This question is what the heck should we do about school? Should she just drop out? Should I try to Make High School Happen by sitting over her for the next two years nagging her to do literally every assignment?
My plan is to have a pretty big conversation about this with her in the next couple weeks. My wish is for HER to generate some ideas about what her goals and wishes are. But I suspect she'll respond best to a menu of suggestions rather than just me demanding that she tell me what she is going to do next.
Ideas I've had are take the high school equivalency test and do community college very slowly (maybe 1-2 classes at a time will be more realistic for her?), get a little, low stress job, look for a low-stress internship... So far I try to throw lots of opportunities her way in hopes SOMETHING will be interesting enough to her to help her generate internal motivation around it. But I'd love any creative ideas for how to proceed.
My goals are for her to feel OK emotionally, learn the skill of doing something hard even when it's hard and then working at it till you get better, and ultimately, move toward being able to get some kind of job - whether that's through an academic or non-academic path. I'm pretty flexible, but the current situation sucks. Thanks for thinking about this.
My kid is great - creative, super bright, empathetic and curious. She's also got lots of characteristics that have thusfar made school bad for her: she's autistic, has ADHD, is a queerdo and although she loves people she has always been very challenged socially, both in large groups and one-one-one and has a hard time making or keeping friends. She has also always gotten into huge power struggles with authorities that Do Not End Well. When she was a little kid she would lash out by yelling or sometimes physically. As she's become older, she's turned her feelings inward and struggled with depression. As a result of all this, school has ALWAYS sucked. And we've tried ALL the schools: Montessori, charter, large public, small public, small private, smaller private, free school, STEM school, everything. Nothing has been a good fit and ultimately, her last school kicked her out and this year we had to try homeschooling which ALSO has not been going well because I have to literally sit right next to her or she will not do any work. Internal motivation/organization is very, very limited.
We've got a lot of good supports on board: She is on the right meds, has a therapist, meditates, does a martial art and has lots of opportunities to connect socially, so this question is not about that.
This question is what the heck should we do about school? Should she just drop out? Should I try to Make High School Happen by sitting over her for the next two years nagging her to do literally every assignment?
My plan is to have a pretty big conversation about this with her in the next couple weeks. My wish is for HER to generate some ideas about what her goals and wishes are. But I suspect she'll respond best to a menu of suggestions rather than just me demanding that she tell me what she is going to do next.
Ideas I've had are take the high school equivalency test and do community college very slowly (maybe 1-2 classes at a time will be more realistic for her?), get a little, low stress job, look for a low-stress internship... So far I try to throw lots of opportunities her way in hopes SOMETHING will be interesting enough to her to help her generate internal motivation around it. But I'd love any creative ideas for how to proceed.
My goals are for her to feel OK emotionally, learn the skill of doing something hard even when it's hard and then working at it till you get better, and ultimately, move toward being able to get some kind of job - whether that's through an academic or non-academic path. I'm pretty flexible, but the current situation sucks. Thanks for thinking about this.
Welding, plumbing, electrical -- does she have any interest or aptitude for trades? See if there are intro classes near you (check community colleges), if academics just isn't working. I would say she should finish HS or get a GED at bare minimum, but if working with her hands and mind suits her best, she can start getting into that now. Also, I think you should tell her this conversation is coming, so she can brainstorm a bit on her own, too -- going in 'demanding what she's going to do next' doesn't seem to be the right approach, but the 'menu' idea is still lacking her input and agency. Collaborate.
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:00 PM on May 7, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:00 PM on May 7, 2018 [2 favorites]
Your ideas and Salty's are good. But, what does she want to do as an adult? Can she work part time or volunteer in an area she's interested in? Maybe be open to that changing when she's had some experience in the area. Finding a job she wants may help motivate her to get her GED and take courses towards it.
posted by Kalmya at 8:01 PM on May 7, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Kalmya at 8:01 PM on May 7, 2018 [3 favorites]
I'm sorry, this is a very tough situation. I would suggest she get a part time job, and you use that money to hire a tutor who is slightly older than her.
Expect that she will continue to have problems with authority and quit job after job.
Have a plan for what you will do when that happens.
I'm addition I would check and see what her therapist suggests. Perhaps she needs a different type of therapy that focuses on gaining organizational skills and dealing with authority?
FYI, She can't get into a GED program until she is 16, and she can't study a trade until she has a GED.
She might need a very visual drawn out time line of each step it will take to get to her goal. Most teens have no idea how to get from step a to b to z....
posted by SyraCarol at 8:37 PM on May 7, 2018 [5 favorites]
Expect that she will continue to have problems with authority and quit job after job.
Have a plan for what you will do when that happens.
I'm addition I would check and see what her therapist suggests. Perhaps she needs a different type of therapy that focuses on gaining organizational skills and dealing with authority?
FYI, She can't get into a GED program until she is 16, and she can't study a trade until she has a GED.
She might need a very visual drawn out time line of each step it will take to get to her goal. Most teens have no idea how to get from step a to b to z....
posted by SyraCarol at 8:37 PM on May 7, 2018 [5 favorites]
Hey anon. I dropped out of high school. I went to vocational school with my GED after (among other things) working for a while. Now in my 30s I work in my profession and I am enrolled in university as a part time student.
I feel like I would have been somewhat better off having withdrawn from high school officially than getting a bunch of Fs on my permanent transcript.
I found work a lot more tolerable than school as a teen and young adult because I could see the "point", and in the right environment I could work around my executive function problems. But I found (and still find) it dull because one of the many reasons I struggled in school was boredom from lack of mental challenge.
I wish someone had let me take a few classes that were "too hard" for me but that I was interested in. The material that I study for my classes now would have really been thrilling to me at that age.
Maybe let her audit a university class, if there is something that she was interested in. She might find it invigorating. If it goes well, she might benefit from skipping the rest of high school and working for a while, then going right to uni. I know there are programs here for exceptional kids to do things like that. I wish I had known back then.
There's nothing wrong with the trades. They are good honest work. They often offer an opportunity to work for yourself and earn a good living. But they're very physically damaging and often very boring unless you have a passion for it. And you will work very, very hard for your money. There's no harm in trying though.
Feel free to memail me about this if you want.
posted by windykites at 9:00 PM on May 7, 2018 [16 favorites]
I feel like I would have been somewhat better off having withdrawn from high school officially than getting a bunch of Fs on my permanent transcript.
I found work a lot more tolerable than school as a teen and young adult because I could see the "point", and in the right environment I could work around my executive function problems. But I found (and still find) it dull because one of the many reasons I struggled in school was boredom from lack of mental challenge.
I wish someone had let me take a few classes that were "too hard" for me but that I was interested in. The material that I study for my classes now would have really been thrilling to me at that age.
Maybe let her audit a university class, if there is something that she was interested in. She might find it invigorating. If it goes well, she might benefit from skipping the rest of high school and working for a while, then going right to uni. I know there are programs here for exceptional kids to do things like that. I wish I had known back then.
There's nothing wrong with the trades. They are good honest work. They often offer an opportunity to work for yourself and earn a good living. But they're very physically damaging and often very boring unless you have a passion for it. And you will work very, very hard for your money. There's no harm in trying though.
Feel free to memail me about this if you want.
posted by windykites at 9:00 PM on May 7, 2018 [16 favorites]
This sounds so familiar that I double checked to make sure that you're not me. My kid hates school so much that they just got diagnosed with PTSD about it.
Depending on what state you're in, you might look into unschooling. We did it for a while, and it turns out that my kid, while totally unmotivated to do schoolwork, is completely happy to read extensively on a lot of subjects. They didn't learn much math, but they learnt a ton about natural sciences, art, history, etc. Some states make it very easy to create a "curriculum" that's entirely child led, some don't, so your ability to do this will vary hugely by location.
Have you tried online schools? I mention it only because the schools you listed all sounded like they were in person, and my child does much better in an online school, where they can't be bullied for being weird or queer or whatever, other students can't distract them, the lights don't make that annoying buzzing noise, etc. This, too, varies by state, and often the states that make it most difficult to homeschool make it very easy to go to an online school. If you haven't tried them, it's worth looking into--they range from 'you're expected to be at your computer watching a live broadcast of this class for seven hours a day' to 'we literally never have live classes, and as long as your work's all in by the end of the term, no one's going to bother you that much', so don't be afraid to look at a bunch of them.
It might be worth seeing if your child can take community college courses while they're being homeschooled/going to school online--especially if there's a course they find especially interesting, letting them do that at a college level and forcing them to do the bare minimum of [other courses] at a high school level might be a compromise where you don't have to do all of the handholding and they end up with a transcript that makes it clear that they're capable of college level work. I was also a child very much like this, and found college courses more tolerable than high school, a lot of the time, because there's (usually) less pointless busywork--I could read the assignments, do the test/write the paper/whatever, and move on.
Please feel free to memail me if you'd like to talk or vent to someone who's in a similar place.
posted by mishafletch at 9:00 PM on May 7, 2018 [6 favorites]
Depending on what state you're in, you might look into unschooling. We did it for a while, and it turns out that my kid, while totally unmotivated to do schoolwork, is completely happy to read extensively on a lot of subjects. They didn't learn much math, but they learnt a ton about natural sciences, art, history, etc. Some states make it very easy to create a "curriculum" that's entirely child led, some don't, so your ability to do this will vary hugely by location.
Have you tried online schools? I mention it only because the schools you listed all sounded like they were in person, and my child does much better in an online school, where they can't be bullied for being weird or queer or whatever, other students can't distract them, the lights don't make that annoying buzzing noise, etc. This, too, varies by state, and often the states that make it most difficult to homeschool make it very easy to go to an online school. If you haven't tried them, it's worth looking into--they range from 'you're expected to be at your computer watching a live broadcast of this class for seven hours a day' to 'we literally never have live classes, and as long as your work's all in by the end of the term, no one's going to bother you that much', so don't be afraid to look at a bunch of them.
It might be worth seeing if your child can take community college courses while they're being homeschooled/going to school online--especially if there's a course they find especially interesting, letting them do that at a college level and forcing them to do the bare minimum of [other courses] at a high school level might be a compromise where you don't have to do all of the handholding and they end up with a transcript that makes it clear that they're capable of college level work. I was also a child very much like this, and found college courses more tolerable than high school, a lot of the time, because there's (usually) less pointless busywork--I could read the assignments, do the test/write the paper/whatever, and move on.
Please feel free to memail me if you'd like to talk or vent to someone who's in a similar place.
posted by mishafletch at 9:00 PM on May 7, 2018 [6 favorites]
Regarding the GED -- it's age 16 minimum to take the test in many places. She would begin studying for it now. (Here in California, test-taking age is 18. There are other requirements which vary by state.) And she can take a weekend class if she's interested in ___, without full-on becoming an apprentice or starting a formal study (assuming you don't have specialized vocational high schools where you are, as that might be another avenue).
posted by Iris Gambol at 9:03 PM on May 7, 2018
posted by Iris Gambol at 9:03 PM on May 7, 2018
My daughter's school district had a program where she could take community college classes - each one triple counted as a high school class. The college offered a wider range of narrow topics - for example instead of human biology she was able to take physical anthropology. There was also less foolishness about picky details. However, there is still a need to do more advanced and abstract work and turn it on time that may not be a good match to where your daughter is right now.
Also, you may have already checked out all the district resources. In my area there were a variety of alternatives offered by the district for different kinds of students. You might also want to ask the district whether there is a feasible way to get a real high school degree rather than a GED. It may (or may not) make some things easier later.
posted by metahawk at 9:36 PM on May 7, 2018
Also, you may have already checked out all the district resources. In my area there were a variety of alternatives offered by the district for different kinds of students. You might also want to ask the district whether there is a feasible way to get a real high school degree rather than a GED. It may (or may not) make some things easier later.
posted by metahawk at 9:36 PM on May 7, 2018
I’m not reading anything about what she wants to do. What are her interests? Let that determine her path. By all means get her out of school. She can take the GED when she’s ready. She might be more clear headed about goals once she’s out of school. She can volunteer or get a job until she figures things out. This age is really hard. I was really floating around with very few concrete goals until I was 18. I can see how that can be infuriating or scary to a parent, but a gentle approach here will work much more smoothly than lectures, ultimatums, or pressure.
posted by shalom at 10:14 PM on May 7, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by shalom at 10:14 PM on May 7, 2018 [2 favorites]
My heart goes out to you. Be patient, where's no hurry - a few lost years are nothing in the long run. We all have many stories of kids that were on the wrong path (drugs, crime, cults, sex too early, etc), but found a way.
1) Tell her right now that you love her and will go to the ends of the earth to find a situation that works for her. This may be obvious to you, but it may not be obvious to her, and it won't hurt to repeat it.
2) Maybe look at outdoor schools, working with animals, semester at sea? Perhaps she'd be happy for a while just working. Can you find her a job? Or maybe volunteer... at the hospital, at the senior home, at the library, at an animal shelter, at church, etc. Often times, getting into a daily routine is very comforting, gives one time to think.
posted by at at 11:44 PM on May 7, 2018 [3 favorites]
1) Tell her right now that you love her and will go to the ends of the earth to find a situation that works for her. This may be obvious to you, but it may not be obvious to her, and it won't hurt to repeat it.
2) Maybe look at outdoor schools, working with animals, semester at sea? Perhaps she'd be happy for a while just working. Can you find her a job? Or maybe volunteer... at the hospital, at the senior home, at the library, at an animal shelter, at church, etc. Often times, getting into a daily routine is very comforting, gives one time to think.
posted by at at 11:44 PM on May 7, 2018 [3 favorites]
Hey you're a few years ahead of us, my daughter is very similar (ADHD ASD queerish and quirky) and is 12.
We're in the UK so different educational situation. She's going to an ASN (additional support needs) base within a mainstream high school so she will have individualised support. This has been a hard decision as she only has one good friend and they will now be going to different schools but it felt like our best chance of getting her to 16 and National 5's.
If it fails I am thinking several things which might or might not help. From watching my dad and other relatives with alternative neurology, I'm expecting independence to take longer. Most of those types in my family have been slow starters and fast finishers. At 25 my dad lived at home having been booted out of college for failing the maths for the 3rd time. At 35 he was married with 4 step children, 2 children, was one of a team running a power station on a Scottish island and had bought and sold his first home. He retired a first class engineer though he never did get to university. He qualified on the job. At 30 my eldest kid's dad was renting a room in a shared flat, doing entry level temp factory work having no educational qualifications at all, periodically moving back to his mum's house when a job ended unexpectedly and he couldn't make rent. 17 years later he has a first class honours degree, sells his art, rents his own whole apartment and is currently considering his masters degree options. I could go on but you get the point.
Is there anything she is especially passionate about? My daughter loves furries and anime and I'm looking to enroll her on textile courses which will allow her to make her own creations. I think if there will be some permanent grading applied to her record even if she isn't there (in the UK you have to sit the exam to fail it) I'd official pull her out if school.
I'd second the online school idea, especially if you can find one that lets students work at their own pace. My daughter can learn. My daughter can cope with the busy social environment of school. But she can't do both at once.
posted by intergalacticvelvet at 3:04 AM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
We're in the UK so different educational situation. She's going to an ASN (additional support needs) base within a mainstream high school so she will have individualised support. This has been a hard decision as she only has one good friend and they will now be going to different schools but it felt like our best chance of getting her to 16 and National 5's.
If it fails I am thinking several things which might or might not help. From watching my dad and other relatives with alternative neurology, I'm expecting independence to take longer. Most of those types in my family have been slow starters and fast finishers. At 25 my dad lived at home having been booted out of college for failing the maths for the 3rd time. At 35 he was married with 4 step children, 2 children, was one of a team running a power station on a Scottish island and had bought and sold his first home. He retired a first class engineer though he never did get to university. He qualified on the job. At 30 my eldest kid's dad was renting a room in a shared flat, doing entry level temp factory work having no educational qualifications at all, periodically moving back to his mum's house when a job ended unexpectedly and he couldn't make rent. 17 years later he has a first class honours degree, sells his art, rents his own whole apartment and is currently considering his masters degree options. I could go on but you get the point.
Is there anything she is especially passionate about? My daughter loves furries and anime and I'm looking to enroll her on textile courses which will allow her to make her own creations. I think if there will be some permanent grading applied to her record even if she isn't there (in the UK you have to sit the exam to fail it) I'd official pull her out if school.
I'd second the online school idea, especially if you can find one that lets students work at their own pace. My daughter can learn. My daughter can cope with the busy social environment of school. But she can't do both at once.
posted by intergalacticvelvet at 3:04 AM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
From a member who would like to answer anonymously:
Hi. My brother, sister, and I, combined, are your kid about 20 years later. Although none of us got kicked out of school, everything else you're describing sounds so very familiar. We were all bright but academically/emotionally challenged in various ways, too.posted by taz at 4:23 AM on May 8, 2018 [4 favorites]
So I really feel for both of you, and have a some thoughts about your situation.
First, I'm very impressed with your approach and dedication. It sounds like you are doing an amazing job of supporting your daughter's academics and interests, and taking her emotional needs seriously. It's not easy to do both - my parents were great with the former and not great with the latter (lots of unproductive and even hurtful "suck it up," "figure it out," "stop whining," etc.). This is so enormously helpful, and I can say from the other side that it is probably paying off in ways that no one sees yet, but will emerge with time.
Second, I'm generally in the camp of "aim for that high school diploma." In middle and high school, I struggled mightily with undiagnosed ADHD (the classic "but girls can't have ADHD" thing) and by the end of sophomore year, all I wanted was to drop out and get a GED. But my parents were adamant that I get the bare-minimum diploma, so after some struggle we found an independent-learning high school. It's too long to explain, but I'll say that it was really worth it in many ways and I have since been glad that my parents forced me to finish.
That being said, you have already done the alternate-school thing and the current situation sounds genuinely super sucky, so I feel a bit bad recommending the diploma. Another 2 years of constant supervision sounds pretty hellish for both of you...
Assuming the HS diploma route, is there any reason that she needs to finish in 2 more years instead of, say, 3 or even 4? I ask with three thoughts in mind:
1. I got exhausted on both of your behalves reading about all the schools, getting kicked out, the new home schooling situation, etc. in the past years! It must have been hard. It really sounds like you guys need a breather of some kind, if possible... extending the "graduation deadline" may make things a bit calmer.
2. My siblings and I really transformed in positive ways from the ages of 16-19 or so, especially in terms of motivation (if not execution...). So by taking more time to finish up high school, you might leverage similar changes in your daughter and be less stressed yourself.
3. There may be more time to work out something like a tutor or even just an "academic babysitter" so that you don't have to watch her constantly. I like the suggestion above of finding someone a little older than her and cool, especially since you say she enjoys social contact.
The good news - despite our struggles, we have all thrived and are doing great! As intergalacticvelvet mentioned above, it did take us a bit longer to become independent in the way society expects, but we also started out with some more unusual challenges.
Ironically enough, considering how bitterly I hated school, I'm now working towards a PhD! I saw one of my high school teachers not too long ago and when I told her, her jaw almost dropped to the floor! Things can really change. I think all the other suggestions above would have been (or sometimes even were) things that helped me and my siblings find our way.
Lastly, an author that I really love, who talks a lot about these difficulties in education, is Todd Rose. His older books The End of Average and Square Peg: My story... really changed how I viewed my own struggles in school and life generally, maybe you'd find his work helpful in figuring out your next steps.
Sorry this got so long, these topics really hit home for me (kind of literally)! Good luck.
If she's not going to go to college, I think it would make a lot more sense to free her from academics - get studying for the GED, get it done, it'll be ok - and focus on a job.
Some people hate high school. It's ok. High school is generally pretty stupid. It seems to me there's more to lose by imbuing it with more importance than it actually has, than by being honest and saying "ok, you can leave this behind, but what comes next is work."
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:52 AM on May 8, 2018
Some people hate high school. It's ok. High school is generally pretty stupid. It seems to me there's more to lose by imbuing it with more importance than it actually has, than by being honest and saying "ok, you can leave this behind, but what comes next is work."
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:52 AM on May 8, 2018
Find out what motivates her. Start with that. No point signing her up for anything if she won't have the motivation to do the work. She may, for example leap at the chance to study for her GED, but when it actually comes time to do the work only be able to crawl under the covers. So first find out what would motivate her to do it.
Have everything on the table as an option. Getting a volunteer job and not studying anything? Studying for her GED? Getting into a program for training in time management and executive skills for aspies? Don't push school and a timeline for a diploma. Find substitutes that work for her unless she has an idea and wants something. Ask her to research this. "Is there anything you want to learn? What? Is there anything you want to do? What?
Be aware of the difference between can't and won't. It is very likely that she is got into all those conflicts with her school because they gave her things to do that they considered ridiculously easy: All they asked was that she show up on time for her eleven o'clock class! But there was some key part of the requirement that was impossible for her: Too anxious to get to class no matter what time, unable to keep any time commitment due to rotating circadian rhythms, too loud in the class etc. Figure out what her can't's are and look for out-of-the box plans that work with them. For example if you kid is on a 27 hour day, then put her on a 27 hour day where she gets up three hours later every day, by the clock, and starts her schooling three hours later every day, by the clock etc.
Make sure she has a massive amount of help learning to deal with anxiety. A great many female aspies have major anxiety problems. If there is any possibility of that throw a MASSIVE amount of effort into helping her learn to self regulate anxiety. I'm gonna repeat the word in all caps. MASSIVE amount of support to learn self regulation in mood and anxiety.
Be aware that she may have developmental delays that make some things impossible for her, bt that she will grow into those abilities. But also be aware some of them may be issues like sensory ones that can never be overcome, and should not be expected of her. Instead look for work arounds that will enable her to do what she wants and needs to do. Don't set status metrics for what she needs to do, such as graduating. She needs to thrive. It is possible to learn more out of school than in it. There are several sites that list what you need to assemble a good art portfolio and find work as an artist. Find resources like that in the field she is currently interested in. But assume she is still dabbling in order to find out what she likes.
Consider one-on-one tutoring, combined with addictive educational software, combined with your home schooling, combined with un-schooling. She may be able to work with you for only a couple of hours a week before her frustration level gets too high.
When schooling her or providing structure for her don't tell her to do things. Don't tell her to do anything. Ask her, "Can you..." Suppose she says she wants to learn a language. Ask, "Can you research language course options for an hour and get back to me with the results?" "Can you set a time to study on DuoLingo each day?" "Can you figure out a way to remember to study each day if having a set time doesn't work?" "Can you ask for help?" And accept her answers. Ask if she can do things to get information rather than as a scold or a challenge. If she says no, accept it. If she says yes she can and then doesn't, don't recriminate or stress, ask more questions, like, "What can you do?"
Find something physical she can do every day and likes to do that requires no skill but which burns a ton of energy. Nerf battles. Wii. Exercise bike. Demolition. Running. This will help burn off anxiety, build up her stamina so she can do things like sit quietly when she wants and needs to, or go to sleep when she wants and needs to.
Tell her that all options are on the table, including you supporting her, if she can't launch, right up until you drop dead, but that she will be miserable if she takes that option, so you want to find other things she wants to do.
Be aware that if school and trying was so hard she may need to turtle for awhile, or to take a gab year. In that case give her the chance but make sure it doesn't turn into a depressive withdrawal where she never leaves the house.
Find out what her special interests are and find her some similar companions, if only on line in that same field. Maybe she likes to draw manga - then she needs to find a manga drawing community. Maybe she likes to sculpture - send her to sculpture interest classes - not something graded, and see if she can find friends there. She probably can't as they will not be her age/development level/looking for friends, so combine her working on the class with looking for other kids her age and development level who like to sculpt.
Don't put her into anything graded. Find her a mentor instead of a teacher. Find her a volunteer job, such as walking dogs at the shelter, with a mentor who will demonstrate how to train dogs and treat them so that they respond and both she and the dogs are happy.
Stop worrying. What will be, will be, but it has to be a different path and a different time table.
Don't over support her. If she needs something impossible for you to give her, find out where she can get it elsewhere. For example if she needs you to do her executive stuff - laundry, cleaning room, scheduling etc. then find ways she can get it from other people and from apps. But don't allow her to get the idea that unless you do it for her it can't be done.
Make sure she develops relationships with your other family members or other people who are not in her same age group.
Figure out if she has an addiction - for example, her phone - and make sure she has to spend time not in the grip of the addiction. Do not take her addiction away, but help her to set boundaries with it. It might be that she has trouble with academics because she is in addiction withdrawal to her phone. So rather than setting a rule - no phone, academic time for three hours with no phone! give her addiction free time without expectation of performance. She can do anything she wants during her daily hour without the phone, but she doesn't have to do anything. This is to help her find ways to self regulate without also having to meet expectations at the same time.
Stop worrying. What will be, will be, but it has to be a different path and a different time table. She does NOT have to meet any of your expectations. You may want her to get a job as an adult, but if she were hit by a truck and paralyzed you would take that expectation off the table instantly - and grieve for it, of course - and then go on to help her have the best life possible. Getting a job is your agenda. Finishing school is your agenda. She almost certainly will do both those things in the fullness of time but there is a conceivable future for both of you where she is happy and you are happy and it is okay that she never finished school, or that she might be unable to hold down a paid job.
posted by Jane the Brown at 9:26 AM on May 8, 2018 [9 favorites]
Have everything on the table as an option. Getting a volunteer job and not studying anything? Studying for her GED? Getting into a program for training in time management and executive skills for aspies? Don't push school and a timeline for a diploma. Find substitutes that work for her unless she has an idea and wants something. Ask her to research this. "Is there anything you want to learn? What? Is there anything you want to do? What?
Be aware of the difference between can't and won't. It is very likely that she is got into all those conflicts with her school because they gave her things to do that they considered ridiculously easy: All they asked was that she show up on time for her eleven o'clock class! But there was some key part of the requirement that was impossible for her: Too anxious to get to class no matter what time, unable to keep any time commitment due to rotating circadian rhythms, too loud in the class etc. Figure out what her can't's are and look for out-of-the box plans that work with them. For example if you kid is on a 27 hour day, then put her on a 27 hour day where she gets up three hours later every day, by the clock, and starts her schooling three hours later every day, by the clock etc.
Make sure she has a massive amount of help learning to deal with anxiety. A great many female aspies have major anxiety problems. If there is any possibility of that throw a MASSIVE amount of effort into helping her learn to self regulate anxiety. I'm gonna repeat the word in all caps. MASSIVE amount of support to learn self regulation in mood and anxiety.
Be aware that she may have developmental delays that make some things impossible for her, bt that she will grow into those abilities. But also be aware some of them may be issues like sensory ones that can never be overcome, and should not be expected of her. Instead look for work arounds that will enable her to do what she wants and needs to do. Don't set status metrics for what she needs to do, such as graduating. She needs to thrive. It is possible to learn more out of school than in it. There are several sites that list what you need to assemble a good art portfolio and find work as an artist. Find resources like that in the field she is currently interested in. But assume she is still dabbling in order to find out what she likes.
Consider one-on-one tutoring, combined with addictive educational software, combined with your home schooling, combined with un-schooling. She may be able to work with you for only a couple of hours a week before her frustration level gets too high.
When schooling her or providing structure for her don't tell her to do things. Don't tell her to do anything. Ask her, "Can you..." Suppose she says she wants to learn a language. Ask, "Can you research language course options for an hour and get back to me with the results?" "Can you set a time to study on DuoLingo each day?" "Can you figure out a way to remember to study each day if having a set time doesn't work?" "Can you ask for help?" And accept her answers. Ask if she can do things to get information rather than as a scold or a challenge. If she says no, accept it. If she says yes she can and then doesn't, don't recriminate or stress, ask more questions, like, "What can you do?"
Find something physical she can do every day and likes to do that requires no skill but which burns a ton of energy. Nerf battles. Wii. Exercise bike. Demolition. Running. This will help burn off anxiety, build up her stamina so she can do things like sit quietly when she wants and needs to, or go to sleep when she wants and needs to.
Tell her that all options are on the table, including you supporting her, if she can't launch, right up until you drop dead, but that she will be miserable if she takes that option, so you want to find other things she wants to do.
Be aware that if school and trying was so hard she may need to turtle for awhile, or to take a gab year. In that case give her the chance but make sure it doesn't turn into a depressive withdrawal where she never leaves the house.
Find out what her special interests are and find her some similar companions, if only on line in that same field. Maybe she likes to draw manga - then she needs to find a manga drawing community. Maybe she likes to sculpture - send her to sculpture interest classes - not something graded, and see if she can find friends there. She probably can't as they will not be her age/development level/looking for friends, so combine her working on the class with looking for other kids her age and development level who like to sculpt.
Don't put her into anything graded. Find her a mentor instead of a teacher. Find her a volunteer job, such as walking dogs at the shelter, with a mentor who will demonstrate how to train dogs and treat them so that they respond and both she and the dogs are happy.
Stop worrying. What will be, will be, but it has to be a different path and a different time table.
Don't over support her. If she needs something impossible for you to give her, find out where she can get it elsewhere. For example if she needs you to do her executive stuff - laundry, cleaning room, scheduling etc. then find ways she can get it from other people and from apps. But don't allow her to get the idea that unless you do it for her it can't be done.
Make sure she develops relationships with your other family members or other people who are not in her same age group.
Figure out if she has an addiction - for example, her phone - and make sure she has to spend time not in the grip of the addiction. Do not take her addiction away, but help her to set boundaries with it. It might be that she has trouble with academics because she is in addiction withdrawal to her phone. So rather than setting a rule - no phone, academic time for three hours with no phone! give her addiction free time without expectation of performance. She can do anything she wants during her daily hour without the phone, but she doesn't have to do anything. This is to help her find ways to self regulate without also having to meet expectations at the same time.
Stop worrying. What will be, will be, but it has to be a different path and a different time table. She does NOT have to meet any of your expectations. You may want her to get a job as an adult, but if she were hit by a truck and paralyzed you would take that expectation off the table instantly - and grieve for it, of course - and then go on to help her have the best life possible. Getting a job is your agenda. Finishing school is your agenda. She almost certainly will do both those things in the fullness of time but there is a conceivable future for both of you where she is happy and you are happy and it is okay that she never finished school, or that she might be unable to hold down a paid job.
posted by Jane the Brown at 9:26 AM on May 8, 2018 [9 favorites]
Have you heard of unschooling? It's a branch of homeschooling that is experience-based rather than academic, and springs out of the child's interests rather than a curriculum. Here's a good book that gets a lot of people started: How Children Fail.
posted by xo at 9:58 AM on May 8, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by xo at 9:58 AM on May 8, 2018 [2 favorites]
You might find some insights into what motivates her through this book called the Four Tendencies. It's about how people respond to expectations. She sounds like what the book calls a "Rebel." There's a quiz you can take for free. It might be helpful for all of you to take the quiz and talk about it.
This sounds so hard. You're doing good work. Best of luck.
posted by purple_bird at 2:40 PM on May 8, 2018
This sounds so hard. You're doing good work. Best of luck.
posted by purple_bird at 2:40 PM on May 8, 2018
I was like this. Never graduated high school, and in hindsight, I wish I would have just left sooner.
I highly recommend you look into unschooling, which is sometimes referred to as "homeschooling," but is a very different approach. The book "The Teenage Liberation Handbook," by Grace Llewelyn, is an excellent place to start.
Trying out some part time jobs, or volunteering, will be a way for her to learn more about herself, and gain some much needed independence.
posted by ethical_caligula at 3:49 AM on May 9, 2018
I highly recommend you look into unschooling, which is sometimes referred to as "homeschooling," but is a very different approach. The book "The Teenage Liberation Handbook," by Grace Llewelyn, is an excellent place to start.
Trying out some part time jobs, or volunteering, will be a way for her to learn more about herself, and gain some much needed independence.
posted by ethical_caligula at 3:49 AM on May 9, 2018
In the UK, for students like your daughter, you may consider what's called a behaviour support plan. (Templates available on the internet.)
It is written in first person and has a list of things and looks sort of like this:
Hi, I'm mini-anoymous!
I'm 15 years old, creative, and very curious! I'm social, and I do martial arts. However, I'm struggling with learning because of my ADHD and depression.
I don't like...
-Bright classroom lights
-Doing too many worksheets/things at once
I like...
-natural light
-Short worksheets, and then a three minute break or a revised pomodoro-method
When I get upset, I start to...
(Insert information here)
In that case, you should...
(Remove me from the room, distract me, give me a break, etc.)
If you decide to get a home tutor or get her into a school, this would be the thing to present if they can work with you. However, in order for this to work, everyone must follow and understand it, especially your daughter.
posted by Ms. Moonlight at 7:48 AM on May 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
It is written in first person and has a list of things and looks sort of like this:
Hi, I'm mini-anoymous!
I'm 15 years old, creative, and very curious! I'm social, and I do martial arts. However, I'm struggling with learning because of my ADHD and depression.
I don't like...
-Bright classroom lights
-Doing too many worksheets/things at once
I like...
-natural light
-Short worksheets, and then a three minute break or a revised pomodoro-method
When I get upset, I start to...
(Insert information here)
In that case, you should...
(Remove me from the room, distract me, give me a break, etc.)
If you decide to get a home tutor or get her into a school, this would be the thing to present if they can work with you. However, in order for this to work, everyone must follow and understand it, especially your daughter.
posted by Ms. Moonlight at 7:48 AM on May 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
40, female, queer, married & (currently) pregnant (!) autistic here. Can't afford communication/writing time-suck that detailed response would require, but will gladly expound if my response is what you're looking for. Having been diagnosed as an adult, I can't speak for teens, but find myself wishing the following approach had been applied when I was younger.
1) Review/Study/Discuss social model of disability as primary framework, viewing life as adaptations or 'deviations' (ick) from neurotypical expectations. Redefine successful living, exploring strengths, weakness, expression of needs. Often what neurotypicals see as my strength can be a weakness (recent examples on the blue, loving too much). What I need to be content. (Same Lifelong process of actualization, with accommodations)
2) Establish life accommodations/saftey net. The world isn't super accommodating to people who aren't neurotypical, especially once one ages out fairly stringent public school disability regulations. Too much of life/saftey rides on neurotypical performance (income for rent, food, doctor,etc) w/punitive responses to failure. Given society, the accommodation/workaround/life hack to decrease stress and increase life satisfaction is social security/disability.
3) Apply now. (verify my assumptions first). Supposedly, it's easier as a youth (wrt autism), but under 24(?) benefit amount is based on parental earnings (which would have given me a larger saftey net when it became clear I couldn't work consistently). Even if you don't need the money. Explore trusts or saving accounts, but be cautious, too restrictive can be the same as having none.
The process can be painful, the exploration and highlighting of difficulties instead of strengths, but doesn't have to be damaging. Use social model to reflect on rigidity of social/personal expectations, and explore feelings (including tears & meltdowns) trying to actually meet the ADL checklists, versus a more flexible and accomodating lifestyle. It's not the end of the road, but the support/saftey net to launch on.
Given autism, once approved, it's not as limiting as it sounds. I've managed to hold a job for a year or two at a time, graduate college, get married, and grow a baby without losing disability status because my accomodations are not conducive to employment.
Before I learned these things and made changes, my life was a mess. Everyone was concerned about me, and only saw wasted potential. As I explored what works for me, instead of what was expected, things became way more stable. I'm happy and have a good life. My parents and family are relieved, through occasionally saddened when I have a neurotypical situation go sideways. Mostly through we're excited and with supports already in place, looking forward to the next stage of life.
posted by bindr at 11:44 AM on May 9, 2018
1) Review/Study/Discuss social model of disability as primary framework, viewing life as adaptations or 'deviations' (ick) from neurotypical expectations. Redefine successful living, exploring strengths, weakness, expression of needs. Often what neurotypicals see as my strength can be a weakness (recent examples on the blue, loving too much). What I need to be content. (Same Lifelong process of actualization, with accommodations)
2) Establish life accommodations/saftey net. The world isn't super accommodating to people who aren't neurotypical, especially once one ages out fairly stringent public school disability regulations. Too much of life/saftey rides on neurotypical performance (income for rent, food, doctor,etc) w/punitive responses to failure. Given society, the accommodation/workaround/life hack to decrease stress and increase life satisfaction is social security/disability.
3) Apply now. (verify my assumptions first). Supposedly, it's easier as a youth (wrt autism), but under 24(?) benefit amount is based on parental earnings (which would have given me a larger saftey net when it became clear I couldn't work consistently). Even if you don't need the money. Explore trusts or saving accounts, but be cautious, too restrictive can be the same as having none.
The process can be painful, the exploration and highlighting of difficulties instead of strengths, but doesn't have to be damaging. Use social model to reflect on rigidity of social/personal expectations, and explore feelings (including tears & meltdowns) trying to actually meet the ADL checklists, versus a more flexible and accomodating lifestyle. It's not the end of the road, but the support/saftey net to launch on.
Given autism, once approved, it's not as limiting as it sounds. I've managed to hold a job for a year or two at a time, graduate college, get married, and grow a baby without losing disability status because my accomodations are not conducive to employment.
Before I learned these things and made changes, my life was a mess. Everyone was concerned about me, and only saw wasted potential. As I explored what works for me, instead of what was expected, things became way more stable. I'm happy and have a good life. My parents and family are relieved, through occasionally saddened when I have a neurotypical situation go sideways. Mostly through we're excited and with supports already in place, looking forward to the next stage of life.
posted by bindr at 11:44 AM on May 9, 2018
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These can lead to rewarding jobs with pretty good pay and a lot less debt than even community college. Welding and HVAC are two that are often in high demand in many regions, and she could perhaps start as early as 16-17 in some situations.
posted by SaltySalticid at 7:56 PM on May 7, 2018 [14 favorites]