What do I do about being publicly coopted into a racist conversation?
April 24, 2018 1:58 AM Subscribe
A senior colleague whom I otherwise genuinely admire recently had a very public, loud conversation with me (within earshot of other colleagues' offices) in which they included some fairly unmistakably racist remarks. I was pretty stunned and fumblingly tried to change the subject as best I could, but now I'm kicking myself for not having just fled the conversation at once, or figured out a way to more definitively show my non-assent to those views. What can/ what should I do?
I'm in a junior probationary position in an education-adjacent workplace. The remarks in question concerned affirmative action. I'm especially confused because this is a colleague whom I know to be relatively left on the political spectrum, and who's an excellent critical thinker-- I have no idea where this came from, whether it was some sort of odd test/joke, or what they were thinking. The remark, unfortunately, was prompted by my mentioning score distributions in general (across a broad population we work with, absolutely without reference to race or similar factors). When they made the assertion, I initially kind of couldn't believe that was what they were talking about, asked for explanation (which they gave, in no uncertain terms), then sort of weakly said something like "oh, well, I haven't noticed anything like that, definitely beyond my remit to comment on." I then tried to change the subject, and closed the conversation on a jokey note.
I've been obsessively replaying the interaction and can give details of my half of things if it'd help. I'm shy and reflexively adopt a people-pleasing attitude in conversations with superiors, so while I definitely didn't verbally agree with anything, I have no idea if my level of friendly politeness at the end sounded problematic given the objectionable character of the remarks. I also wonder whether my initial discussion of statistics and metrics, in light of what followed, could somehow read to an observer like a dogwhistle for these views.
This is a situation well beyond my very limited level of office political competency. I feel as though I haven't always clicked in general with colleagues, and am now dreading years of interactions, including possible performance reviews, in which everybody secretly despises me as a horrible racist-by-association. Since Colleague has been otherwise great and is apparently well-regarded in the workplace, I'm also, maddeningly, wondering whether there was the slightest possibility that they could have been somehow testing me to see if I'd repudiate things more energetically? Or could I have possibly misunderstood? All my anxious instincts to revisit, clarify with colleagues, and engage are almost certainly wrong here, but that's all I can think about.
If anyone could weigh in on (a) how concerned I should likely be, and (b) what I should do about it, it'd be much appreciated. Throwaway email at helphelpnotracistreally at gmail dot com. Thanks!
I'm in a junior probationary position in an education-adjacent workplace. The remarks in question concerned affirmative action. I'm especially confused because this is a colleague whom I know to be relatively left on the political spectrum, and who's an excellent critical thinker-- I have no idea where this came from, whether it was some sort of odd test/joke, or what they were thinking. The remark, unfortunately, was prompted by my mentioning score distributions in general (across a broad population we work with, absolutely without reference to race or similar factors). When they made the assertion, I initially kind of couldn't believe that was what they were talking about, asked for explanation (which they gave, in no uncertain terms), then sort of weakly said something like "oh, well, I haven't noticed anything like that, definitely beyond my remit to comment on." I then tried to change the subject, and closed the conversation on a jokey note.
I've been obsessively replaying the interaction and can give details of my half of things if it'd help. I'm shy and reflexively adopt a people-pleasing attitude in conversations with superiors, so while I definitely didn't verbally agree with anything, I have no idea if my level of friendly politeness at the end sounded problematic given the objectionable character of the remarks. I also wonder whether my initial discussion of statistics and metrics, in light of what followed, could somehow read to an observer like a dogwhistle for these views.
This is a situation well beyond my very limited level of office political competency. I feel as though I haven't always clicked in general with colleagues, and am now dreading years of interactions, including possible performance reviews, in which everybody secretly despises me as a horrible racist-by-association. Since Colleague has been otherwise great and is apparently well-regarded in the workplace, I'm also, maddeningly, wondering whether there was the slightest possibility that they could have been somehow testing me to see if I'd repudiate things more energetically? Or could I have possibly misunderstood? All my anxious instincts to revisit, clarify with colleagues, and engage are almost certainly wrong here, but that's all I can think about.
If anyone could weigh in on (a) how concerned I should likely be, and (b) what I should do about it, it'd be much appreciated. Throwaway email at helphelpnotracistreally at gmail dot com. Thanks!
I'm on the spectrum so my assessment of social situations is skewed. I once observved a group of education specialist fail to acknowledge an inappropriate view (i was caned and it only did me good) and it took me a long time to notice, but it is one way to express disapproval. On other occasions I have said "I'm not comfortable with [x]" and on still others, I have said " [x] is not acceptable (or equivalent)." While I'm proud of the last response, it's been the least successful, and resulted in more conflict than I can deal with.
posted by b33j at 3:08 AM on April 24, 2018
posted by b33j at 3:08 AM on April 24, 2018
Is there anyone in your life you can repeat the remarks to and get an unbiased opinion of if they were in fact racist? I say this only because you do ask if it's possible you misunderstood and there's no way we can tell if this is the case with the information you've given us. Sometimes, especially in an academic setting, people interpret talking about race as being racist in the same way they sometimes interpret talking about religion as being religious or talking about sex as promoting promiscuity.
In any case, next time, b33j's "I'm not comfortable with . . . " or perhaps "why would you say . . ." is the best response in the moment as it gives you a non-confrontational opportunity to have a conversation with the person and find out in real time if you did hear what you think you heard and if so, get more information and some understanding of why this particular person used these particular words.
posted by Gnella at 3:30 AM on April 24, 2018 [4 favorites]
In any case, next time, b33j's "I'm not comfortable with . . . " or perhaps "why would you say . . ." is the best response in the moment as it gives you a non-confrontational opportunity to have a conversation with the person and find out in real time if you did hear what you think you heard and if so, get more information and some understanding of why this particular person used these particular words.
posted by Gnella at 3:30 AM on April 24, 2018 [4 favorites]
FWIW if you're in a junior position, talking to someone who is clearly not, most people wouldn't assume you agree or share his views, they'll be more like 'groan, I can't believe bigoted old senior person is pestering junior person with their racist schtick, poor junior person'.
posted by signal at 4:51 AM on April 24, 2018 [31 favorites]
posted by signal at 4:51 AM on April 24, 2018 [31 favorites]
The primary practical question of educational affirmative action is how much to correct for and/or disregard differences in standardized test scores, given the limited reliability of grades as a consistent indicator of aptitude. You have to have an opinion on that question in order to set alternative lower-cut-offs so as to avoid admitting people unlikely to graduate or (in the case of professional school) pass licensing exams or practice competently.
Also, as for your colleague being a leftist, there are two long-standing, if not prevalent, schools of left opposition to race-based affirmative action: a "moderate" school that prefers socio-economic affirmative action, and a "radical" school that disdains a policy which they believe operates to bestows capitalist-ruling-class privileges upon a select group of blacks and hispanics while leaving the rest to be victimized. You're not going to find a lot of young left-wing people espousing either of these positions, but if this guy is older, not all surprising.
posted by MattD at 5:05 AM on April 24, 2018 [3 favorites]
Also, as for your colleague being a leftist, there are two long-standing, if not prevalent, schools of left opposition to race-based affirmative action: a "moderate" school that prefers socio-economic affirmative action, and a "radical" school that disdains a policy which they believe operates to bestows capitalist-ruling-class privileges upon a select group of blacks and hispanics while leaving the rest to be victimized. You're not going to find a lot of young left-wing people espousing either of these positions, but if this guy is older, not all surprising.
posted by MattD at 5:05 AM on April 24, 2018 [3 favorites]
Hey listen I'm not white and I came to the conclusion a long time ago that arguing with white people about affirmative action (among many other racial subjects) is an exercise in futility that's going to get me browbeaten, regardless of their purported political leanings. I'd probably have reacted the same way you did. Just try not to think about it, there's nothing you can do now. Maybe avoid him for a little bit?
posted by windykites at 6:01 AM on April 24, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by windykites at 6:01 AM on April 24, 2018 [3 favorites]
Anonymous, I think you actually did well in that conversation. Your organizational position is precarious: You're a probationer facing an established colleague. With that kind of power imbalance, there's only just so much you can "get away with". The lead-ballooning tactic ("What do you mean? Really? Haven't seen that in my experience, here's a change of subject", etc.) is a good one for that situation. No one witnessing that interaction, as you've described it, would conclude that you agree with Colleague's views.
Given that Colleague brought up the racist stuff seemingly out of nowhere, it's a safe bet that it occupies their mind quite a bit. You should be prepared for ongoing "conversations" about it. Don't try to argue points with this person. They will only Gish-Gallop you to death. Just keep being professional and work-pleasant, and keep delivering that lead-balloon.
posted by Weftage at 6:05 AM on April 24, 2018 [13 favorites]
Given that Colleague brought up the racist stuff seemingly out of nowhere, it's a safe bet that it occupies their mind quite a bit. You should be prepared for ongoing "conversations" about it. Don't try to argue points with this person. They will only Gish-Gallop you to death. Just keep being professional and work-pleasant, and keep delivering that lead-balloon.
posted by Weftage at 6:05 AM on April 24, 2018 [13 favorites]
I think that we do have a responsibility to challenge bigoted views, even if it makes us uncomfortable - especially if we're part of a group that benefits from those views. Of course, it's true that sometimes there is more at risk than just feeling uncomfortable. I wouldn't expect you to risk your job.
It's also understandable that sometimes we freeze when we're confronted with something unexpected, such as racist views coming from someone we respect. It cases where you can speak up, but don't know what to say, it can help to think about it in advance. Personally, I think about what I would want to hear from a man whose senior colleague decided to share sexist comments with him:
- I'd want to hear that he disagrees.
- I'd want to hear something about the senior colleague's being inappropriate.
- I wouldn't really want to hear a debate about my merits.
And that has given me a script that I've used before: "I disagree very strongly and I'm really disappointed to hear that you think that, but I don't want to debate it with you. Could we change the topic?" And then I refused to engage in further discussion of the topic. Yes, it will be awkward and yes you might offend. You're the one who needs to judge whether you think that could have professional consequences for you, or if you just don't want to be socially uncomfortable.
If you have a script in mind it's easier to respond in the moment. Now that you've experienced this once, you have the opportunity to think about how you want to react the next time it happens (it's likely to), and having that plan will help you react in a way that is in line with what you believe and what risks you're willing to take, instead of freezing up or being like "WTF."
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 6:29 AM on April 24, 2018 [8 favorites]
It's also understandable that sometimes we freeze when we're confronted with something unexpected, such as racist views coming from someone we respect. It cases where you can speak up, but don't know what to say, it can help to think about it in advance. Personally, I think about what I would want to hear from a man whose senior colleague decided to share sexist comments with him:
- I'd want to hear that he disagrees.
- I'd want to hear something about the senior colleague's being inappropriate.
- I wouldn't really want to hear a debate about my merits.
And that has given me a script that I've used before: "I disagree very strongly and I'm really disappointed to hear that you think that, but I don't want to debate it with you. Could we change the topic?" And then I refused to engage in further discussion of the topic. Yes, it will be awkward and yes you might offend. You're the one who needs to judge whether you think that could have professional consequences for you, or if you just don't want to be socially uncomfortable.
If you have a script in mind it's easier to respond in the moment. Now that you've experienced this once, you have the opportunity to think about how you want to react the next time it happens (it's likely to), and having that plan will help you react in a way that is in line with what you believe and what risks you're willing to take, instead of freezing up or being like "WTF."
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 6:29 AM on April 24, 2018 [8 favorites]
Also, it's extremely, vanishingly unlikely that this was some kind of "test." You don't need conspiracy theories to explain why someone said something racist to you. Many people are just racist, including many people with other so-called "left" views.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 6:31 AM on April 24, 2018 [18 favorites]
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 6:31 AM on April 24, 2018 [18 favorites]
You didn't support his comment. You made a statement of (mild) disagreement. Your body language probably showed disagreement or even shock. You pushed back hard enough that he justified his comment, albeit with racist crap. All of that is not nothing. He is an academic, I take it, and has given some basis for his belief, no matter how sketchy. He is in a position of greater power. He is unlikely to change his beliefs if confronted by you.
Things you can consider: Research his justification of a racist statement. Respond to him in person or by email.
Speak to your manager, express concern that the colleague expresses racist views openly. It's Wrong and it also exposes the organization to risk if someone hears him and pursues publicity, or someone may have a claim for harassment, which could require settlement. This will also assuage your concerns that you could be perceived as tolerant of racism.
Make a handsome donation to a group that fights racism. it's guilt money, but there is important work being done, and it is not cheap.
Organize a workshop by a group that teaches about racism. This movie, with discussion was presented in my area and was worthwhile.
increase any personal efforts to examine your own racism, and to battle institutional racism.
posted by theora55 at 6:46 AM on April 24, 2018
Things you can consider: Research his justification of a racist statement. Respond to him in person or by email.
Speak to your manager, express concern that the colleague expresses racist views openly. It's Wrong and it also exposes the organization to risk if someone hears him and pursues publicity, or someone may have a claim for harassment, which could require settlement. This will also assuage your concerns that you could be perceived as tolerant of racism.
Make a handsome donation to a group that fights racism. it's guilt money, but there is important work being done, and it is not cheap.
Organize a workshop by a group that teaches about racism. This movie, with discussion was presented in my area and was worthwhile.
increase any personal efforts to examine your own racism, and to battle institutional racism.
posted by theora55 at 6:46 AM on April 24, 2018
If he's a longtime employee than he is likely a known quantity. "Oh look Greg is getting all Ayn Randian on the new guy, Jesus Christ Greg, save something for the dystopia"
I would find it unlikely based on your description that you were "stained" by this discussion in the eyes of you colleagues and are much more likely viewed as victim of it.
posted by French Fry at 10:49 AM on April 24, 2018
I would find it unlikely based on your description that you were "stained" by this discussion in the eyes of you colleagues and are much more likely viewed as victim of it.
posted by French Fry at 10:49 AM on April 24, 2018
Kutsuwamushi makes a great point about scripts. Awkward, risky conversations are awkward and risky enough without also having to improvise.
I rely on pre-scripted/pre-visualized dialogues often, but I'm on the spectrum so my behaviour in this regard may not be typical.
Contemplating how dialogues may go well is one thing, of course. I recommend going full Stoic and contemplating dialogues that go badly, too. That way no matter how it turns out you've got a well-considered tactic.
posted by Construction Concern at 1:56 PM on April 24, 2018
I rely on pre-scripted/pre-visualized dialogues often, but I'm on the spectrum so my behaviour in this regard may not be typical.
Contemplating how dialogues may go well is one thing, of course. I recommend going full Stoic and contemplating dialogues that go badly, too. That way no matter how it turns out you've got a well-considered tactic.
posted by Construction Concern at 1:56 PM on April 24, 2018
I was in this exact spot last year right after I started working at my current job. The problem with being new is that you don't have a lot of social capital so it's a lot harder to call out things like this... and if you're normally someone who DOES call things out (like me and you) then it eats away at you that you didn't come out more strongly against it. Trust me, I know exactly how you feel. Being neutral and polite is about the best you can do in that situation. No one is going to hold that against you.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 2:40 PM on April 24, 2018
posted by rabbitrabbit at 2:40 PM on April 24, 2018
I'm a minority who has had people tell me angry/racist things about AA or anything where they think others are getting special ltreatment. I have mixed feelings on AA depending on how it is rolled out, but I now never assume that anyone likes it.
His anger or stereotyping probably comes from assuming everyone is starting at the same place/similar place with the same ability to get interviews, raises, mortgages with good rates, and other things. You can search online for each of those things and see how much minorities don't have access to those things.
That won't matter to the angry man. I've learned to walk away from political talk and anything that could reveal something gross about someone. I've never heard anything really bad and obvious I could take to HR besides specific people refusing to communicate with me for weeks on end.
If he tries some shit again, make note of it. He treats you differently because you're not laughing at racist jokes or if starts ignoring you, let your boss know each time. If your workplace is filled with good ol boys who are friends with conservative politicians, they may take your complaints of "He doesn't talk to me about important projects and it is affecting the bottom line" more seriously than. "His jokes are tasteless and racist".
One involves money and the other involves taste. Also, don't bother trying to change his mind.
posted by Freecola at 5:04 PM on April 24, 2018 [2 favorites]
His anger or stereotyping probably comes from assuming everyone is starting at the same place/similar place with the same ability to get interviews, raises, mortgages with good rates, and other things. You can search online for each of those things and see how much minorities don't have access to those things.
That won't matter to the angry man. I've learned to walk away from political talk and anything that could reveal something gross about someone. I've never heard anything really bad and obvious I could take to HR besides specific people refusing to communicate with me for weeks on end.
If he tries some shit again, make note of it. He treats you differently because you're not laughing at racist jokes or if starts ignoring you, let your boss know each time. If your workplace is filled with good ol boys who are friends with conservative politicians, they may take your complaints of "He doesn't talk to me about important projects and it is affecting the bottom line" more seriously than. "His jokes are tasteless and racist".
One involves money and the other involves taste. Also, don't bother trying to change his mind.
posted by Freecola at 5:04 PM on April 24, 2018 [2 favorites]
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Now, to assuage your guilt you could try to have a private conversation with your senior colleague to explain that you didn’t share his or her views, and explain why you found them offensive.
tl;dr: don’t fret!
posted by Kwadeng at 2:40 AM on April 24, 2018 [3 favorites]