Dumped a good friend, want general advice / thoughts
April 24, 2018 1:17 AM   Subscribe

Hi AskMefi, long-time lurker here hoping you guys can help. I recently stopped talking to a friend for a while and want general advice on the situation. I've had a close friend for several years who kind of sucks. Recently I became completely fed up with for being such a toxic and negative presence in my life, and told him I didn't want to speak for a while. Why do I feel bad? How do I feel better?

I know the details matter for MeFi threads / OPs can portray things in weird ways, so basically imagine years of stuff like (and these are actual and representative examples):
- yelling at me to "stop telling him he's broken" for suggesting he see a therapist
- giving me the silent treatment for bringing him lunch because I don't treat him like an adult
- moving out of the country without packing anything, leaving me to hire people to e.g. disassemble his furniture and box his stuff (we were roommates).

Things I'm wondering:

- Does it make any sense to re-establish this friendship? We have a lot of mutual friends and this has made things awkward for them... but I don't feel any genuine desire to reconnect. I honestly can't see it happening until he grows up quite a bit, which I estimate will take years. I think he would probably like to be friends again, as I was his closest friend, but the only reason I'd want to be friends with current-him is out of guilt, I think.

- Should I bother explaining why I've ended the friendship? I haven't yet, just said I wanted some space "for now." I'd sort of like to air my grievances in the interest of helping him improve as a person (I don't think he understands how poorly he treats others), but I'm nervous about that urge. What if I'm lying to myself and I just want an excuse to chew him out? Maybe that's fine too?

- What do I do with his stuff? I've been storing several boxes for months and he's back in the area but hasn't found permanent housing yet AFAIK. Just give him a date and time that it'll be on the sidewalk? I don't want to talk to him LOL.

- Maybe most of all: why do I feel so bad about this? How do I feel better? Like... why is it taking up so much space in my brain?

It kind of baffles me. A lot of it is irritation -- for example, I went over to my boyfriend's house and his roommate was loudly Skyping this person. It stresses me out to be reminded of him like that, or to even think about him. A lot of it also might be grief? We used to be very close, and I'm a pretty sentimental person, so I think I'm wistful for the good times that we've had that I can't go back to, being a different person today. Almost like having an ex. :(

Would appreciate any thoughts, personal stories, related resources, etc.

Thanks so much!
posted by involute to Human Relations (12 answers total) 4 users marked this as a favorite
 
Losing a friend who you've been with a long time will lead to a grieving period where it feels worse before it feels better even if the reasons you're not friends anymore are legitimate. As you said - there's a certain familiarity and sentimentality to the good times that isn't turned off when you've had enough of their shit. Your brain will often disconnect the bad stuff from the good stuff and try to convince you that the good stuff was better than it was while the bad stuff wasn't as bad as you think. It's the reason many people slip back with exes - your brain wants a quick, good hit of feeling and doesn't care about the fallout. Often there may be a void in your life where no other person does the same positive things for you that they did and so that void kind of sucks for a while.

That said, reading the particulars here, you made the right decision - whether it is the end of the friendship, or a whole hell of a lot of apology and changed behavior would be a precursor for me ever being friends again with a person like that. This is not to say they're a bad person, but whatever dynamic and expectations they have for you as a friend need to be re-calibrated hard.
posted by notorious medium at 4:16 AM on April 24, 2018 [6 favorites]


There is grief in the ending of a relationship, even if it is a step down, there is a loss of connection. Your circle of mutual people may not register this as anything more than he moved & is back. Managing boundaries is where you are, which includes letting go of storage with clear communication. If he doesn’t want it, have a charity pick it up.

Part of dealing with this is taking a matter-of-fact, low-energy response to inertia. Not expecting his recognition of storage as helpful, just keeping it as a transaction. “I heard you are in town. The items you left behind when your lease ended must be moved by x date. There are a plenty of storage vendors if you have not set up long-term housing. If that does not happen the items will be placed outside for a charity to pick them up. And let it be his problem. All of it. Don’t go into a parental mode with him, just let him go.

I went through this with an unhealthy friend from grade school. She wondered why I would not visit a mutual friend with her overseas, then complained about going alone after she got back - I did not go because I would have been propping her up, and she has a lot of negativity. The last straw was when she decided to act on my behalf after my father passed. More bad boundaries on her end. I upped my boundaries & reminded her that I’ve done my part when she complains about not seeing me - let me know when she is in the area, has an occasion, etc. She’d rather complain that she misses me.. She has a spouse and other friends to reach out to when problems exceed her bandwidth. It’s been a relief, of sorts. Less stress & emotional labor. It may have risen for others who are now being called upon, but that’s hers to resolve. She’s still tangled in my social media...which made it that much easier to give up FB.
posted by childofTethys at 4:44 AM on April 24, 2018 [2 favorites]


I think your reasons for wanting to end the friendship are good and valid, but most of all - you want to end it. If things are awkward for mutual friends, they need to deal with that.

As for whether or not to tell him why you're ending the friendship, I think it depends a lot on what you're hoping to get out of that conversation. If you just want to list your reasons and have him know them, fine. If you're hoping for contrition on his part, some kind of validation that you're right to be mad at his treatment of you or that you'll spur him into becoming more mature... I don't think you can really count on any of those things. In my experience the kind of conversation you're envisioning usually leads to the person being confronted getting defensive and angry, and digging in his heels that he's the victim since (it feel to him as if) you're attacking him. It can sometimes lead to more of the behavior you're trying to point out in an effort to get him to stop.

Friendships have a natural lifespan, and this one has ended for you. It's hard right now, but as other have noted above, it will get easier. In the meantime, focus on making yourself happy - connect with other friends, do fun stuff you've never done before, etc. Treat it more or less like the breakup of a romantic relationship, because emotionally it's very similar. Eventually, things will get better.
posted by odd ghost at 5:11 AM on April 24, 2018 [1 favorite]


I agree with the above posters and will add just a couple of tidbits from my own roughly similar experience:

- In ending things, I opted for the "slow fade" approach, because I knew the ex-friend well enough to predict that no good could come from attempting to address the issues. The slow fade may have worked in large part because the ex-friend was drifting away from me at around the same time I was drifting away from him, albeit for mostly different reasons.

- After about fifteen years, my ex-friend still pops up in my dreams from time to time, which always sucks. The good news is it took me no more than about five years to become able to discuss, without significant emotion, my ex-friend with mutual acquaintances.

- One thing that probably helped in my case was never ever having been on Facebook.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 5:47 AM on April 24, 2018 [3 favorites]


People can and do change for the better, but you're right, that takes a long time and a lot of effort. Also, they have to want to change for their own sake, and that's going to require some consequences (probably more than just the demise of this one friendship, they may need to lose more friends) in addition to understanding why their actions are toxic and negative to them. Whether or not he ever gets a clue, decides to change and how long it takes for him to do that are all completely up to him and beyond your control. You can only control you, specifically whether or not you want to continue to endure a lot of negativity and toxicity for the sake of positive change that may or may not happen.

Also, consider that by hanging in there with him you are enabling his treatment of you. If you really want him to change for the better, that's not helping him. Ending the friendship and going no contact is an important consequence because at the very least you are no longer part of the problem by enabling.

When I've ended friendships, I've done the slow fade approach mentioned by CheesesOfBrazil. I've only explicitly stated why I was ending the friendship when the slow fade didn't work. The intention behind that was to make it clear why I was ending it without any expectation of them changing, because that's not up to me. That's their decision.
posted by jazzbaby at 6:10 AM on April 24, 2018 [1 favorite]


Best answer: I'd sort of like to air my grievances in the interest of helping him improve as a person

Yeah, no. The way you help someone improve as a person--in relationship to you--is to set reasonable and appropriate boundaries for your relationship, push back if those boundaries are encroached upon, and leave if there is no improvement.

You (any of us) can't help this person (or anyone, probably) improve as a person. If he comes to you and asks why you are avoiding him, you can certainly answer. But otherwise, you are mostly stirring up drama that will be satisfying, if at all, only briefly and probably just make you feel worse after.

Losing friends feels awful initially. A friend of mine broke up with me after I had, in a clumsy way, insisted on holding a certain boundary. I felt terrible about it for months. But time passed and now I simply feel relief because this friend was consistently negative and a huge emotional drain. That is not all my friend was; I am grateful and appreciative for the many good things they did for me. But none of the good stuff was left by the time I was dumped as a friend and really, they did me a favour. So you will feel bad for awhile but it gets better, truly. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 6:22 AM on April 24, 2018 [11 favorites]


It sounds like you were a caretaker in the relationship from the three examples. It sounds like he solicited caretaking and then punished you for it.

The thing about caretaking is that it requires you to make mental space for the other person. You listen to their problems, you notice if they ate, you figure out what stuff needs to be packed carefully and what stuff can be just thrown into a box. Your description of the relationship makes it sound like you were much more invested in the relationship that he was - not only did he abandon you with the rent when he moved out, but he abandoned his stuff. His stuff wasn't important to him either. He is not someone who actually takes responsibility, and you do. Unless you suggested he get a therapist out of the blue because he was annoying you somehow, it means he was venting at you and you were trying to problem solve. Let's say he was talking about "my goddamn parents". An alternative suggestion, if you didn't care about him would have been to agree, "yeah, parents" and try to steer him into something less personal. But instead you suggested something which takes effort... and effort is something this guy clearly has problems with.

So now you have to wait until you brain gets distracted from being in responsible mode, or retrain it, so that you stop remember this guy might not yet have eaten lunch. You are probably also stewing with resentment about him too - every time you remembering that you are storing his stuff you get re-engaged and start trying to think of responsible solutions to what should be HIS problems.

I would continue to engage with him. Contact him and tell him, "I have to get rid of all your stuff by June first. What do you want me to do with it? It has to go to goodwill if it's not gone by then." If he asks why you need his stuff out, it's because you are going to set up an artist's studio, in the space it currently occupies.

Contact him once a week, on Monday to repeat your message. And then follow through. The thing about contacting him once a week, on a schedule is to sent your brain a message that will shut it up from thinking about the friendship. Any time you think about him, you just tell yourself, "I already dealt with that," or "I don't have to deal with that until Monday." With luck you will spend the month of May thinking about the friendship a lot less.

Once the stuff has been picked up or dumped at Goodwill, or you have hauled it out to his new home, or the storage unit that he has arranged and paid for, use the space for an artist's studio, or some other project that works for you. Maybe you need the room empty so you can do your in-door exercise program in there and have the room to do stretches. Maybe you are paying to store his stuff, in which case faithfully use and notice using that $18.99 every month to pay down your student loans. Whatever storing his stuff is cost you, use that space/time/effort consciously for something of your own. Your first step will be to decide what you want to do with the space he currently occupies.

Be aware too, that silent treatment and yelling are both abusive treatments, so they ratcheted your anxiety level way up. And now you are anxious about him. You are worried both for him, but for yourself. You know darn well from experience that when you tell him you have to get rid of your stuff he may either go on the attack, "What the hell do you expect me to do with it! You know I don't have a place!" or to sulk and tell all your mutual friends how mean you were and generally lay a huge guilt trip on you. And your friends may very well (appear to) take his side, because that's the equivalent or replying, "Yeah parents" and not getting involved. So this is why you might want to make sure you mention to them, "I kept contacting him week after week. Ever since he moved out. I just couldn't store his stuff anymore." * shrug * But don't make a big deal about it. After all his friends probably also know what he is about and how he operates and how responsible he is and if they were willing to get involved with you might actually be asking why the hell you didn't throw all his furniture onto the curb in the first place.

But chances are in some ways he is likable and fun to be with, so they, like you try to enjoy those parts and not get involved in the bad parts.

Once you have forced him to retrieve his furniture or lose it, chances are the friendship will be over and he will avoid you, and the question of dropping him or not, and how to do it will be moot.
posted by Jane the Brown at 6:27 AM on April 24, 2018 [3 favorites]


Hii there just wanted to add this AskPolly article (her words are so balmy and soothing for me, hope they will help you too) and also wanted to say that there are seasons in life, and it's natural to feel wistful when one season ends. But you have so much to look forward to! I agree that you will be doing them a favour (in the long term) by setting firm boundaries, and that it doesn't make sense to force and prolong things that aren't working out. Take care!
posted by Crookshanks_Meow at 7:29 AM on April 24, 2018


Does it make any sense to re-establish this friendship? We have a lot of mutual friends and this has made things awkward for them... but I don't feel any genuine desire to reconnect.

How much discomfort are you willing to endure to avoid making things awkward for mutual friends?

Should I bother explaining why I've ended the friendship?

No. For your own health and wellness, you need to be completely finished doing emotional labor for this former friend. Explaining is just more emotional labor on your part.

I'd sort of like to air my grievances in the interest of helping him improve as a person (I don't think he understands how poorly he treats others), but I'm nervous about that urge.

That's a bad idea. Do you think that reaming him out will "help him improve as a person"?

The urge is that he has hurt you and you want to strike back. It's probably best not indulged.

What do I do with his stuff? I've been storing several boxes for months and he's back in the area but hasn't found permanent housing yet AFAIK. Just give him a date and time that it'll be on the sidewalk? I don't want to talk to him LOL.

Possible email script: "There are several boxes of your stuff that I have, and they need to be gone from my house on or before DATE. On DATE, they will be at the curb for you to pick them up. If you don't pick them up then the trash collectors will pick them up."

Maybe most of all: why do I feel so bad about this? How do I feel better? Like... why is it taking up so much space in my brain?

Emotional vampires have a tendency to do that.
posted by theorique at 8:07 AM on April 24, 2018 [1 favorite]


Addressing the practicalities:

--Don't re-establish friendship simply because of awkwardness for your mutual friends. It may take some time but the new dynamic will normalise, and if they're the types to side with the other guy or pressure you to change for the sake of the friend group then they aren't the friends you thought them to be. (It may be worth giving some preemptive thought to where you want to set your boundaries wrt relating to or discussing this person with your mutual friends, and if the issue comes up being able to state clearly to them 'I don't want to hear about $person' or 'Please don't discuss my life with $person' or whatever you don't feel comfortable with.)

--If he asks why you've distanced yourself, you can tell him, but otherwise don't bother. Your examples indicate that he's been this way for a while and doesn't react well to things he interprets as critical, so telling him will likely start an argument, or be interpreted as the opening of negotiations. It's unlikely he'll suddenly see the light at this point; it's easier for him to just shift the flaws in the relationship to what he'll characterise as your lack of understanding or unreasonableness or whatever. He's likely to think badly of you regardless, so don't give him fuel for his fire.

--In dealing with his stuff: if you've got the money for it, pack it all up and move it into a storage unit. Pay for the first month, get the keys and paperwork to him, and from then it's no longer your problem. If you can't do this, someone above mentioned weekly texts, which is also a good idea.

It's understandable to feel bad when a relationship of any type ends, even if it wasn't bringing much happiness -- at the most basic level it's a change, which can be disorienting even if it's for the better. Mourning what's lost or feeling bad for the other person can occur even if you don't want them back in your life, it simply means that you have compassion for them, or you miss the things you enjoyed about the person (even if they were far outnumbered by the things you didn't) and that made you remain in the friendship past its expiry date.

Beyond that, put him and the situation behind you and move on with your life. If you find yourself questioning your decision or having second thoughts, remember how much better it feels to not have this person taking up space in your brain. If you find yourself feeling really sentimental about it, perhaps consider the possibility that the friendship could be renewed at some point down the line if he figures things out and makes some positive changes. It may not be very likely, but it at least works to put the onus (in your mind) off your ending the friendship, and on him becoming a better person.
posted by myotahapea at 8:07 AM on April 24, 2018


Best answer: Proust, of all people, has an insight into this: we dread and deny the end of a serious love affair because the end of a love affair, the falling out of love with a person, the loss of significance or value of so many things about them, means the death of the self who loved that person. I think that applies to important friendships as well. It's natural to grieve that, to be really shaken up by it. I still myself feel twinges over someone very close to me I had to break off relations with about three years ago. I don't think I was wrong to do it, but I still wonder if I couldn't have done certain things differently to avert the eventual outcome. In fact, I'm feeling a little sad about it now as I type about it. But it doesn't even cross my mind most days.
posted by praemunire at 8:14 AM on April 24, 2018 [13 favorites]


Response by poster: Wow, thank you guys so much for the responses! Especially the Proust, that rung really true, haha.

(A clarification -- I was trying to do the slow fade, but this backfired / he got nervous and repeatedly asked if I was upset with him and why. I wasn't confident I would say anything productive, so I just told him I felt hurt and needed space, but I wondered f I should have been more explicit given that he asked.)

I really appreciate the responses... I haven't had any experience with this kind of interpersonal problem before (we're both fairly young, early 20s) so it made me feel better to hear that this is normal and I'm not, I dunno, a bad person for not wanting to be friends again.
posted by involute at 12:12 PM on April 25, 2018


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