This is doomed, yes?
March 19, 2018 11:42 AM Subscribe
I'm ostensibly "dating" someone "casually," but where is the freakin sex???
History: He ended a year-long relationship a month before we met. I ended a decade-long marriage a year before we met. Both of us were very clear from the start that this was casual dating, and neither of us are playing for keeps. We're both in our mid-thirties.
The Sitch: We enjoy each other's company very much, we hit it off so great! There's flirting, and hand-holding, and touching. We text almost every day. We have amazing conversations in person. He's cute and IMO so am I. I'm quite attracted to him, and he says he's attracted to me.
The Problem: 10 dates over 6 weeks, several of them at either his place or mine, and we've had sex only once. The sex was good but, um, better for him than for me :P But he was apologetic that he didn't get me off, and full of promises of next time. I was like "lol, it's okay, I'm sure we can even this out soon." But that was six dates ago, and since then it's been ... nothing. He usually says he's tired (he's in academia, it's end of the semester, etc.) and of course I'm not gonna pressure him.
The Moves I've Tried: I asked directly (and lightly!) three dates ago, "Hey, where are we at, sex-wise? Are you attracted to me?" And he was all, "OMG, yeah, I've just been really tired." But since then too there's been no sex.
Sooo, Like: I'm watching my feelings pretty carefully. A couple of weeks ago I'd have said I enjoy his company enough to be friends with him even if he isn't into me That Way for whatever reason. But, like, I'm growing ever more wary. Is he just not being up front with me? Is he just too chicken to tell me to my face that he's not attracted to me? That's pretty shitty, right?
The Upshot: I think I'm gonna give it exactly one more date. If there's no sex, I don't think I want to see him anymore, even as a friend. Am I right in being wary and mistrusting him now? Or am I way off base...?
History: He ended a year-long relationship a month before we met. I ended a decade-long marriage a year before we met. Both of us were very clear from the start that this was casual dating, and neither of us are playing for keeps. We're both in our mid-thirties.
The Sitch: We enjoy each other's company very much, we hit it off so great! There's flirting, and hand-holding, and touching. We text almost every day. We have amazing conversations in person. He's cute and IMO so am I. I'm quite attracted to him, and he says he's attracted to me.
The Problem: 10 dates over 6 weeks, several of them at either his place or mine, and we've had sex only once. The sex was good but, um, better for him than for me :P But he was apologetic that he didn't get me off, and full of promises of next time. I was like "lol, it's okay, I'm sure we can even this out soon." But that was six dates ago, and since then it's been ... nothing. He usually says he's tired (he's in academia, it's end of the semester, etc.) and of course I'm not gonna pressure him.
The Moves I've Tried: I asked directly (and lightly!) three dates ago, "Hey, where are we at, sex-wise? Are you attracted to me?" And he was all, "OMG, yeah, I've just been really tired." But since then too there's been no sex.
Sooo, Like: I'm watching my feelings pretty carefully. A couple of weeks ago I'd have said I enjoy his company enough to be friends with him even if he isn't into me That Way for whatever reason. But, like, I'm growing ever more wary. Is he just not being up front with me? Is he just too chicken to tell me to my face that he's not attracted to me? That's pretty shitty, right?
The Upshot: I think I'm gonna give it exactly one more date. If there's no sex, I don't think I want to see him anymore, even as a friend. Am I right in being wary and mistrusting him now? Or am I way off base...?
You aren’t off base. Sounds like you want a casual sexy relationship. That’s not what you have. End it.
posted by pintapicasso at 11:54 AM on March 19, 2018 [11 favorites]
posted by pintapicasso at 11:54 AM on March 19, 2018 [11 favorites]
It could be that he really is just tired? Nothing you've said makes him sound like a terrible person. Even if we assume that the 'tired' thing isn't true, it could just be that he has some things to work out at the moment.
That being said, it seems like he has a different idea regarding 'casual dating' than you. Maybe you need to clarify this with him? It sounds like you want more of a friends with benefits situation.
posted by thereader at 11:56 AM on March 19, 2018 [6 favorites]
That being said, it seems like he has a different idea regarding 'casual dating' than you. Maybe you need to clarify this with him? It sounds like you want more of a friends with benefits situation.
posted by thereader at 11:56 AM on March 19, 2018 [6 favorites]
You're making me anxious just reading your question.
You need to have an actual, relaxed, honest conversation about this: "Hey bf, I've really loved this time with you. But I'm so used to relationships being a lot more physical, and that's how I define a successful relationship and feel more confident in someone's affection for me. Plus, it's super fun! I really like you, but I worry that by not having that physicality, we might not be compatible. How do you feel about this?"
And then listen. It's totally OK to leave a relationship if you're at an impasse, even if you really like the person. It's also OK to give things time. See how the conversation goes.
posted by mochapickle at 11:58 AM on March 19, 2018 [27 favorites]
You need to have an actual, relaxed, honest conversation about this: "Hey bf, I've really loved this time with you. But I'm so used to relationships being a lot more physical, and that's how I define a successful relationship and feel more confident in someone's affection for me. Plus, it's super fun! I really like you, but I worry that by not having that physicality, we might not be compatible. How do you feel about this?"
And then listen. It's totally OK to leave a relationship if you're at an impasse, even if you really like the person. It's also OK to give things time. See how the conversation goes.
posted by mochapickle at 11:58 AM on March 19, 2018 [27 favorites]
It's great that you brought it up, that must have been difficult... but what happened after he said OMG yes? Did the conversation just stop? Have you tried initiating? This isn't to blame you, but feeling amorous for some people comes after things start going. I've been one of those people where I'll be tired and down about something or distracted and my partner will make an effort that snaps me back to... other better things to think about.
Overall in dating, my experiences have taught me that people show you who they really are with their actions. "I'm attracted to you!" is an easy thing to say, and a lack of follow-up is the actual thing he means. I would recommend on your next date, if you're comfortable with it, just going for it. Kiss him, smile and ask if he'd like to go to the bedroom. Flirt, propose you swap backrubs... get it going. If he isn't interested in anything then, I think you have your answer that this will not work for you.
If you do get your sexy time on, I would have an honest discussion about what you need going forward. OR DO THIS FIRST! If you prefer. An honest serious discussion doesn't have to be drama or really that intense, being honest and open is usually the furthest thing from drama because then no one is hiding anything and feeling scared/bad/angsty.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 11:59 AM on March 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
Overall in dating, my experiences have taught me that people show you who they really are with their actions. "I'm attracted to you!" is an easy thing to say, and a lack of follow-up is the actual thing he means. I would recommend on your next date, if you're comfortable with it, just going for it. Kiss him, smile and ask if he'd like to go to the bedroom. Flirt, propose you swap backrubs... get it going. If he isn't interested in anything then, I think you have your answer that this will not work for you.
If you do get your sexy time on, I would have an honest discussion about what you need going forward. OR DO THIS FIRST! If you prefer. An honest serious discussion doesn't have to be drama or really that intense, being honest and open is usually the furthest thing from drama because then no one is hiding anything and feeling scared/bad/angsty.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 11:59 AM on March 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
Another perspective is that attraction isn't just about how hot you think someone is, but it's also about whether you feel like sex is going to be emotionally easy with them. It's hard to stay attracted to someone who's anxious about the frequency or quality of your bedroom activities, especially this early on. That, and it's difficult to want to have sex with someone who puts a lot of pressure on you to perform. I'd bet good money on him picking up your anxiety over the situation.
So, he may no longer be super excited about sleeping with you, but not for the reasons you think.
posted by blerghamot at 12:16 PM on March 19, 2018 [12 favorites]
So, he may no longer be super excited about sleeping with you, but not for the reasons you think.
posted by blerghamot at 12:16 PM on March 19, 2018 [12 favorites]
It's possible he's got some anxiety about it now. It sounds like the one time you had sex, he came, you didn't - did he possibly finish too fast? He may be nervous about that happening again, or not being able to please you, or not knowing how to initiate, or...who knows. Ideally he should be able to vocalize this like a mature adult, but, eh, sometimes we all need a little help. I agree that you need a real, open conversation about what's going on.
And also agree that you should be initiating as well, if you aren't already. My (male) partner is super responsive sexually but for various reasons (nothing to do with his attraction to me), has some trouble initiating. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that this is doomed unless neither of you is able to communicate!
posted by yawper at 12:16 PM on March 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
And also agree that you should be initiating as well, if you aren't already. My (male) partner is super responsive sexually but for various reasons (nothing to do with his attraction to me), has some trouble initiating. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that this is doomed unless neither of you is able to communicate!
posted by yawper at 12:16 PM on March 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
If I were you, I'd be physically direct the next time I was horny. Kiss him and lead him to bed. Tell him what you'd like to do and start taking clothes off, yours and his. Or tell him flat out as foreplay: "I love sex and really want it with you right now. Let's get into bed." and see what his reaction is. If he's says no, begs off, or seems disengaged, then I think you have your answer: at the very least there are different enough libidos at play and they are incompatible; at most there's something cagey going on.
posted by cocoagirl at 12:17 PM on March 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by cocoagirl at 12:17 PM on March 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
I think he probably is attracted to you and there might be something else going on that he's not quite being upfront about (anxiety? health issues? medications?) I've definitely had partners with some of these issues who covered them with the umbrella excuse of "tiredness." Regardless, the most important thing is working out your communication about it. You need to make your expectations about sex clear and tell him how you've been feeling about the lack of it. He needs to provide you with a more satisfying explanation and present you with some potential solutions.
It's good that you're monitoring your feelings, because being in an unsatisfying sexual relationship can really make you start to doubt your own attractiveness and do a number on your self-esteem. It's better to get out before that happens if you're not being met sexually. If he's really that tired then he doesn't have room in his life for a casual sexual relationship.
posted by rabbitbookworm at 12:18 PM on March 19, 2018
It's good that you're monitoring your feelings, because being in an unsatisfying sexual relationship can really make you start to doubt your own attractiveness and do a number on your self-esteem. It's better to get out before that happens if you're not being met sexually. If he's really that tired then he doesn't have room in his life for a casual sexual relationship.
posted by rabbitbookworm at 12:18 PM on March 19, 2018
Best answer: This question reminds me a lot of the chapter in "He's just not that into you" titled "He's just not that into you if he's not having sex with you". "Tired" is one of the excuses mentioned for not being all that attracted to you, but also not wanting to hurt your feelings by being honest about that. Believe his actions, not his words.
posted by jazzbaby at 12:21 PM on March 19, 2018 [15 favorites]
posted by jazzbaby at 12:21 PM on March 19, 2018 [15 favorites]
Best answer: You tried to talk to him about sex and he reassured you and provided an explanation for the lack of sex. But since then nothing has happened. He hasn't done anything to match his vocal reassurance. I think either he wasn't being upfront with you or he doesn't care. I don't know what it is that he wants out of this relationship, but it doesn't sound like it's sex. You're right to be wary. Also, I wouldn't assume that it's lack of attraction that's causing his disinterest in sex. He could be using lots of porn, have a really low sex drive, have other partners, have issues or anxiety regarding sex, any number of things. It's not just that you aren't having sex, but that you really don't know why you aren't having sex. But whatever the reason, this could end up being really soul-sucking for you--I'd rather date someone whose desire for me matched my desire for them.
posted by Polychrome at 12:23 PM on March 19, 2018 [16 favorites]
posted by Polychrome at 12:23 PM on March 19, 2018 [16 favorites]
Best answer: I've just been really tired.
whatever "tired" is standing in for, this is a weak excuse and an incomplete answer. "tired" doesn't cover six dates of nothing happening. it's possible that he is into you and that "tired" is replacing some other, embarrassing reason for not wanting to have sex, but either way I think you're quite right to be ready to just walk away from this.
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:28 PM on March 19, 2018 [8 favorites]
whatever "tired" is standing in for, this is a weak excuse and an incomplete answer. "tired" doesn't cover six dates of nothing happening. it's possible that he is into you and that "tired" is replacing some other, embarrassing reason for not wanting to have sex, but either way I think you're quite right to be ready to just walk away from this.
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:28 PM on March 19, 2018 [8 favorites]
I like mochapickle's approach. If you like him pretty well, and everything else is okay, it's probably worth talking about it before ending things, no? Not much to lose, good practice, might help...?
posted by salvia at 12:28 PM on March 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by salvia at 12:28 PM on March 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
Brand new partner and no sexual energy? I'd be wondering if this was a big warning sign of things to come. After you get over the initial meet and greet kind of energy, and you have a brand new novel sexual interest that you trust, you'd think the clothes would be flying off, right? Personally I'd be creating plenty of serious attention, time and space for that to develop physically with a new person unless I had some extremely difficult events going on in my life. If that's not happening at the outset, how's that going to work long term?
posted by diode at 12:29 PM on March 19, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by diode at 12:29 PM on March 19, 2018 [6 favorites]
Response by poster: Hey, thanks for the input. To answer questions so far:
1. I've initiated sex, I'm definitely not waiting around for him. Usually kissing him and saying, "Mm, I really want you," etc. He puts the brakes on saying he's tired. Then usually we cuddle.
2. I have some ... issues ... surrounding asking for sex in indirect ways, because I was sexually coerced and assaulted during my marriage. So I tend to prefer talking rather than using touch to initiate, because I'm a little too careful about explicit consent. However I like to think I do it without turning someone off... idk, haha.
3. Are you all really getting "anxiety" vibes from this post? I'm feeling mainly exasperated and a bit rejected, not anxious. The thing I find myself muttering is, "what is this fuckwittage?" But I'm all ears if there's some blindingly obvious anxiety in my post.
posted by MiraK at 12:31 PM on March 19, 2018 [5 favorites]
1. I've initiated sex, I'm definitely not waiting around for him. Usually kissing him and saying, "Mm, I really want you," etc. He puts the brakes on saying he's tired. Then usually we cuddle.
2. I have some ... issues ... surrounding asking for sex in indirect ways, because I was sexually coerced and assaulted during my marriage. So I tend to prefer talking rather than using touch to initiate, because I'm a little too careful about explicit consent. However I like to think I do it without turning someone off... idk, haha.
3. Are you all really getting "anxiety" vibes from this post? I'm feeling mainly exasperated and a bit rejected, not anxious. The thing I find myself muttering is, "what is this fuckwittage?" But I'm all ears if there's some blindingly obvious anxiety in my post.
posted by MiraK at 12:31 PM on March 19, 2018 [5 favorites]
I think I'm gonna give it exactly one more date.
If you make it explicitly a sex date ("Sex needs to happen and I need you not to be tired"), then you've been clear where you stand and what you need him to do, and you can progress (or not) accordingly. That's fair.
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:32 PM on March 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
If you make it explicitly a sex date ("Sex needs to happen and I need you not to be tired"), then you've been clear where you stand and what you need him to do, and you can progress (or not) accordingly. That's fair.
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:32 PM on March 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
Best answer: this is really really simple.
the guy isn't into sex. that's all.
guys with high (or even average) sex drives have sex with women they're dating.
"too tired" is a thing that happens very rarely for a man with a normal sex drive, and is generally rectified the next morning.
that's it. that's all. you don't need to talk this one to death. it won't change anything.
posted by fingersandtoes at 12:33 PM on March 19, 2018 [39 favorites]
the guy isn't into sex. that's all.
guys with high (or even average) sex drives have sex with women they're dating.
"too tired" is a thing that happens very rarely for a man with a normal sex drive, and is generally rectified the next morning.
that's it. that's all. you don't need to talk this one to death. it won't change anything.
posted by fingersandtoes at 12:33 PM on March 19, 2018 [39 favorites]
Having read your update, I think you're doing great so far and I 100% understand your frustration. I would have one sit-down with him, ask him directly what's going on, and then give him one chance to change his course. If not, you've learned that you're incompatible. Definitely would NOT keep dating him if he is not honest with you and nothing changes.
posted by yawper at 12:35 PM on March 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by yawper at 12:35 PM on March 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
I have used "tired" as an excuse a lot in my life before I took more responsibility and was honest (to myself and my partners) even when it was difficult. Sometimes I was actually tired, sometimes hungover, sometimes not into them physically as much as I should be, sometimes worried about my sexual performance (the longer it goes without, the more awkward), etc. The point being that "tired" is so vague that unless he is being forced to work 20 hours a day and only sleep 4 hours that it isn't a real answer. People who want to give you a concrete answer as to why and what he's really trying to say here just can't.
If you make it explicitly a sex date ("Sex needs to happen and I need you not to be tired"), then you've been clear where you stand and what you need him to do, and you can progress (or not) accordingly. That's fair.
Haha, I think I would under no circumstances be able to get an erection under this pressure. An open, low-pressure but direct conversation would be better IMO as someone who has had anxiety interfere with perfectly normal sexual function. The flesh is strong, the mind can out think itself.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 12:35 PM on March 19, 2018 [13 favorites]
If you make it explicitly a sex date ("Sex needs to happen and I need you not to be tired"), then you've been clear where you stand and what you need him to do, and you can progress (or not) accordingly. That's fair.
Haha, I think I would under no circumstances be able to get an erection under this pressure. An open, low-pressure but direct conversation would be better IMO as someone who has had anxiety interfere with perfectly normal sexual function. The flesh is strong, the mind can out think itself.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 12:35 PM on March 19, 2018 [13 favorites]
Best answer: Given your update, I'd be outta there without devoting any more energy to unpacking the whole thing. Use the money you would've spend on drinks for the next 5 dates on a really nice vibrator. Free your body and your mind.
posted by cocoagirl at 12:45 PM on March 19, 2018 [11 favorites]
posted by cocoagirl at 12:45 PM on March 19, 2018 [11 favorites]
FWIW, this is very similar to the story of the last guy I dated (same age and dating trajectory, he is also an academic).
I decided it didn't matter why he didn't want to have sex, that it was a mismatch and a fine reason to quit dating him. I met up with him one more time to kinda test if I wanted to stay friends, and I didn't - he complains a lot, it turns out.
It sounds like this is enough of a mismatch that you're unlikely to happily meet in the middle OR that he's not telling you something. It doesn't matter, just walk.
posted by momus_window at 12:46 PM on March 19, 2018 [10 favorites]
I decided it didn't matter why he didn't want to have sex, that it was a mismatch and a fine reason to quit dating him. I met up with him one more time to kinda test if I wanted to stay friends, and I didn't - he complains a lot, it turns out.
It sounds like this is enough of a mismatch that you're unlikely to happily meet in the middle OR that he's not telling you something. It doesn't matter, just walk.
posted by momus_window at 12:46 PM on March 19, 2018 [10 favorites]
Yeah I'm going with he probably just has a way lower sex drive than you, but feels like that's not a thing he can disclose? Or possibly not a thing he has acknowledged to himself. If you're specifically into this for the casual sex, it's not the fling for you.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 12:49 PM on March 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 12:49 PM on March 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
also there's nothing abnormal about a dude having a low sex drive. it just makes the two of you relatively incompatible.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 12:51 PM on March 19, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 12:51 PM on March 19, 2018 [6 favorites]
I can't imagine having one more conversation or date with this person! How humiliating for you both.
End it now.
He's not ready, or sex is not important, or he's still sleeping with his ex. You just don't know. Do not care about why, just bounce and move forward.
posted by jbenben at 1:02 PM on March 19, 2018 [4 favorites]
End it now.
He's not ready, or sex is not important, or he's still sleeping with his ex. You just don't know. Do not care about why, just bounce and move forward.
posted by jbenben at 1:02 PM on March 19, 2018 [4 favorites]
Yeah I think it kind of doesn’t matter what is going on (though there is nothing more normal or natural than wanting to know). I doubt you will ever find out why your had sex on the 4th date and then not again for the next 6, when there is ostensibly mutual attraction and no known reluctance toward having sex in a casual context.
6 weeks is a good point to cut your losses. Theres no magic thing you can do or way you can behave to make this into the situation you want it to be, and the whole deal should just be easier than it is. Even if you do have one more date and have sex on that date, I think you’re just going to be happier in a different situation.
posted by mrmurbles at 1:09 PM on March 19, 2018 [7 favorites]
6 weeks is a good point to cut your losses. Theres no magic thing you can do or way you can behave to make this into the situation you want it to be, and the whole deal should just be easier than it is. Even if you do have one more date and have sex on that date, I think you’re just going to be happier in a different situation.
posted by mrmurbles at 1:09 PM on March 19, 2018 [7 favorites]
Best answer: The sex was good but, um, better for him than for me :P But he was apologetic that he didn't get me off, and full of promises of next time.
Also, I know there are alternative scenarios here, especially for a first time (e.g., sustained efforts on his part directed towards your pleasure, not just his, that just didn't click), but I must ask: is this Yet Another Dude who fails to realize the presence or absence of his own arousal and whether or not he's finished has little to nothing to do with whether you get satisfied?
'Cause, if so, you all are waaaaaaaaay too grown for that nonsense. And, bluntly, sex with him is unlikely ever to be satisfying for you. If he's in his mid-thirties and doesn't know how physical female sexual response works, well, who the heck has time to teach someone that in a casual hook-up?
posted by praemunire at 1:09 PM on March 19, 2018 [14 favorites]
Also, I know there are alternative scenarios here, especially for a first time (e.g., sustained efforts on his part directed towards your pleasure, not just his, that just didn't click), but I must ask: is this Yet Another Dude who fails to realize the presence or absence of his own arousal and whether or not he's finished has little to nothing to do with whether you get satisfied?
'Cause, if so, you all are waaaaaaaaay too grown for that nonsense. And, bluntly, sex with him is unlikely ever to be satisfying for you. If he's in his mid-thirties and doesn't know how physical female sexual response works, well, who the heck has time to teach someone that in a casual hook-up?
posted by praemunire at 1:09 PM on March 19, 2018 [14 favorites]
"I think I'm gonna give it exactly one more date. If there's no sex, I don't think I want to see him anymore, even as a friend. Am I right in being wary and mistrusting him now? Or am I way off base...?"
This sounds right and not off base. Everything you've written suggests a mismatch of some sort. You're saying that you're willing to look elsewhere to get what you want, and this is eminently reasonable.
posted by frau_grubach at 1:16 PM on March 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
This sounds right and not off base. Everything you've written suggests a mismatch of some sort. You're saying that you're willing to look elsewhere to get what you want, and this is eminently reasonable.
posted by frau_grubach at 1:16 PM on March 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Curious - why are you going to give it one more date? Let's say you have sex on the next date. What then? Will he magically change his lack of sex drive? Will he magically change his lack of communication? Will he magically learn to satisfy you without piv sex? Or will you just move your boundaries? How many more dates will you wait before you begin saying "just one more date" again? You might consider whether you're setting yourself up to waste your time.
Fwiw, I'm sure he's a nice guy, but it sounds like one month after ending a big relationship is just too soon for him to really get into a new person. It sounds more like he just isn't ready to be alone yet, and he is more interested in your good company than he is in a new relationship.
posted by vignettist at 1:32 PM on March 19, 2018 [15 favorites]
Fwiw, I'm sure he's a nice guy, but it sounds like one month after ending a big relationship is just too soon for him to really get into a new person. It sounds more like he just isn't ready to be alone yet, and he is more interested in your good company than he is in a new relationship.
posted by vignettist at 1:32 PM on March 19, 2018 [15 favorites]
Is it possible you guys just aren't on the same page with how quick sex comes in a relationship?
posted by corb at 1:44 PM on March 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by corb at 1:44 PM on March 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
jesus. you don't sound in any danger of taking anyone's advice to order him to put out or get out, so I won't warn you not to, but obviously that is unacceptable. the biggest problem is you were both clear about wanting casual dating, and you didn't entirely clarify that you actually meant casual sex instead. or you did clarify that, but kept dating him anyway, so he figured he must have misunderstood. however it was, he's not great in bed, not too interested in sleeping with you, and that's the main thing you want him for, so end it. there's no need for mistrust or grandstanding on either side.
posted by queenofbithynia at 1:46 PM on March 19, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by queenofbithynia at 1:46 PM on March 19, 2018 [8 favorites]
Hmm, could it be that he is anxious about the first time -- too much pressure to perform so he's nervous about it?
posted by caoimhe at 1:50 PM on March 19, 2018
posted by caoimhe at 1:50 PM on March 19, 2018
Oh, I missed the bit where you both said it's casual dating! In that case I think it's probably a case of mismatch.
For some people, casual dating is exactly what you're doing - it would be for me. I would never think of casual sex and casual dating as the same thing - for me they're exact opposites. Going out together, cuddling, kissing, but not sexing would be exactly what I, if single, would refer to as "casual dating". For me, the combination of dating+sex is what makes it serious.
Which like - it's totally fine not to want to date him! But it doesn't mean he's /lying/, so much as he doesn't see the need for sex all the time because you are just casual. So I'd break up but stay friends.
posted by corb at 2:18 PM on March 19, 2018 [5 favorites]
For some people, casual dating is exactly what you're doing - it would be for me. I would never think of casual sex and casual dating as the same thing - for me they're exact opposites. Going out together, cuddling, kissing, but not sexing would be exactly what I, if single, would refer to as "casual dating". For me, the combination of dating+sex is what makes it serious.
Which like - it's totally fine not to want to date him! But it doesn't mean he's /lying/, so much as he doesn't see the need for sex all the time because you are just casual. So I'd break up but stay friends.
posted by corb at 2:18 PM on March 19, 2018 [5 favorites]
But, like, I'm growing ever more wary. Is he just not being up front with me? Is he just too chicken to tell me to my face that he's not attracted to me? That's pretty shitty, right?
I think it's a bad match regardless. But there's a dozen reasons why someone might be reticent to disclose that one really isn't ready for sex, doesn't want sex, or has anxiety about being in a sexual relationship. On the other hand, he might be an asshole. Figuring out which is which requires a good and honest conversation.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 2:26 PM on March 19, 2018
I think it's a bad match regardless. But there's a dozen reasons why someone might be reticent to disclose that one really isn't ready for sex, doesn't want sex, or has anxiety about being in a sexual relationship. On the other hand, he might be an asshole. Figuring out which is which requires a good and honest conversation.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 2:26 PM on March 19, 2018
I feel the need to add that you're not obligated to stay in a relationship regardless. If he's less than candid because there's some pretty big stigmas associated with not being GGG (along with most of the reasons why), that's a problem he needs to deal with on his own.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 3:08 PM on March 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 3:08 PM on March 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
What if this dynamic never changes? Will you be okay with that? If not, get out now. I've been there, I've had the regrets. It's easier to end the relationship early than wait until you are invested in each other and then put up with something that makes you unhappy.
posted by Knowyournuts at 3:43 PM on March 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Knowyournuts at 3:43 PM on March 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
I say let him go. If he wanted to have sex with you, he would. This is NOT to say you aren't amazing, and beautiful, and sexy, and a wonderful sex partner. But I agree with jazzbaby. If he were into sex with you, you would be having sex. "He's just not that into you" is a simple solution for most of my sex and dating problems. Even if it stings!
posted by bluespark25 at 4:26 PM on March 19, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by bluespark25 at 4:26 PM on March 19, 2018 [4 favorites]
He's not into having sex, maybe not with you, maybe not with anybody. Either way, it's going to constantly suck for you. I understand this dynamic all too well and I know that it doesn't get any more fun for you. I'd try to have an honest conversation about it one more time but if it's he's still "too tired" he will never be upfront about it and it will only get worse.
posted by Foam Pants at 4:30 PM on March 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Foam Pants at 4:30 PM on March 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
I do not know what "tired" really means for him, but people are hottest for each other (typically, I know there are always outliers) at the start of a relationship.
Maybe he's conflicted about his sexuality, or he's depressed, or he's worried he's not good at it, or he's just not much into sexual activities, but, yeah, sorry, this really seems to have become a platonic relationship.
posted by Ink-stained wretch at 5:38 PM on March 19, 2018
Maybe he's conflicted about his sexuality, or he's depressed, or he's worried he's not good at it, or he's just not much into sexual activities, but, yeah, sorry, this really seems to have become a platonic relationship.
posted by Ink-stained wretch at 5:38 PM on March 19, 2018
End things and move on. This guy is not interested in having sex with you for whatever reason, including reasons he might not understand himself. Maybe he has a really low sex drive, maybe he has issues with sex and commitment, I would guess that he’s not over his past relationship and is using you to fill the companionship void left by his ex but has issues being sexual so soon after the end of that relationship, but none of those guesses really matter. That’s his problem to resolve, not yours to resolve for him. You two are incompatible. Also, it sounds like he’s selfish in bed: he is unwilling to meet your physical needs, getting himself off and then making excuses for not putting in the work to bring you to orgasm. I think it’s telling that he has the same wishy-washy attitude towards having a sexual relationship in general as his approach to orgasm equity during the one sexual encounter you had: he isn’t going to satisfy you and he isn’t going to give you a real answer about why he has no intention of doing so. by the way, you are crazy for being upset by this or for wanting something different. For two adults casually dating, unless you explicitly laid out that these are platonic dates or cuddle dates or whatever, that frequency of sexual encounters is really off the bell curve abnormal. Cut your losses with this guy.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 6:30 PM on March 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by moonlight on vermont at 6:30 PM on March 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I would cut him loose for being a very poor communicator to the point of being dishonest. If he is really that tired he should see a doctor. If he's really truly too tired to have sex after you go on a date, then skip the dinner-and-a-movie and go straight to the sex. But you know that's not going to happen. It doesn't matter whether he has a low sex drive, erectile problems, insecurity, isn't attracted to you, hasn't disclosed an STI, or is a lizard person. He can't be honest with someone he's dating and that's an automatic disqualifier.
posted by AFABulous at 8:29 PM on March 19, 2018 [12 favorites]
posted by AFABulous at 8:29 PM on March 19, 2018 [12 favorites]
I also want to say that I’m being kind of harsh to this guy and seeing that same harshness in other comments, but honestly being one month out of a year long serious relationship is nothing. i’m going to guess that this guy is being such a bad communicator and bad sexual partner because his head is not on straight for relationships. He might not be a bad person or a bad partner in general but I don’t think he’s capable of pulling it together to do dating right now.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 9:15 PM on March 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by moonlight on vermont at 9:15 PM on March 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
He seems into you, but not into having sex. Low sex drive would be my guess.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:50 PM on March 19, 2018
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:50 PM on March 19, 2018
This may be a stupid question but are you guys sleeping over and have you tried having sex in the morning? I'm a normal guy with (I think?) a normal sex drive, and I'm even a night person, and sometimes I would really just rather wait to have sex until my brain's had a chance to reset.
I think he's probably not being dishonest about feeling tired. I do agree with others that it's totally possible he actually feels "tired" because, for example, he's spending a lot of cycles ruminating or worrying about stuff (work stress, not being able to perform sexually, family drama, etc.).
Sometimes with sex you can get into these weird local minima where someone psyches themselves out, the sex ends up being mediocre, and that causes a negative anxiety/avoidance loop. If it's just that, then sometimes you can get out of that with some frank discussions and a little patience. It could also be something situational, like a temporary period of particularly high work stress. Of course, it could also be something more fundamental -- innately low sex drive, SSRIs killing his boner, intractable issues around sex, whatever. There's no real way to know without talking about it.
Anyway, I think it's possible you guys could get out of the valley here, but it would require some time problem-solving with him. As a prerequisite you would need to figure out whether, in fact, he would ideally like to have sex with you more often. If you like spending time with him and are turned on by him, it might be worth a little awkward fact-finding and experimentation. Or not, though! You don't owe him anything. And I agree that if he turns out to not be willing or able to communicate, if you end up doing all the work, or if you in fact turn out to have different ideas of how much sex is enough to sustain a casual relationship, then yeah, time to end it.
posted by en forme de poire at 11:28 PM on March 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
I think he's probably not being dishonest about feeling tired. I do agree with others that it's totally possible he actually feels "tired" because, for example, he's spending a lot of cycles ruminating or worrying about stuff (work stress, not being able to perform sexually, family drama, etc.).
Sometimes with sex you can get into these weird local minima where someone psyches themselves out, the sex ends up being mediocre, and that causes a negative anxiety/avoidance loop. If it's just that, then sometimes you can get out of that with some frank discussions and a little patience. It could also be something situational, like a temporary period of particularly high work stress. Of course, it could also be something more fundamental -- innately low sex drive, SSRIs killing his boner, intractable issues around sex, whatever. There's no real way to know without talking about it.
Anyway, I think it's possible you guys could get out of the valley here, but it would require some time problem-solving with him. As a prerequisite you would need to figure out whether, in fact, he would ideally like to have sex with you more often. If you like spending time with him and are turned on by him, it might be worth a little awkward fact-finding and experimentation. Or not, though! You don't owe him anything. And I agree that if he turns out to not be willing or able to communicate, if you end up doing all the work, or if you in fact turn out to have different ideas of how much sex is enough to sustain a casual relationship, then yeah, time to end it.
posted by en forme de poire at 11:28 PM on March 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
>says he's tired (he's in academia, it's end of the semester, etc.
I like believing what people say, even lies people tell can be really telling. So assuming this is the honest to god truth, that's still not a great reality IMO.
I've been tired, I've been too tired to do much with gorgeous people, that tired exists. It's an amount of tired that CAN happen. But for like 1-2 nights.
But the math here is all kinds of wacky, it's been 6 weeks, it's MARCH the semester is either long over or far from over. And if 6+ weeks at the end of each semester is making him THIS tired that he can't get together with his hot new girlfriend than that doesn't bode well for the future.
I wouldn't be stoked about a partner who looking forward would be out of commission for 12-15 weeks a year. That's a great deal of time.
So a lot of folks are saying he's lying, which is fair, but it might be worse if he's telling the truth.
posted by French Fry at 11:22 AM on March 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
I like believing what people say, even lies people tell can be really telling. So assuming this is the honest to god truth, that's still not a great reality IMO.
I've been tired, I've been too tired to do much with gorgeous people, that tired exists. It's an amount of tired that CAN happen. But for like 1-2 nights.
But the math here is all kinds of wacky, it's been 6 weeks, it's MARCH the semester is either long over or far from over. And if 6+ weeks at the end of each semester is making him THIS tired that he can't get together with his hot new girlfriend than that doesn't bode well for the future.
I wouldn't be stoked about a partner who looking forward would be out of commission for 12-15 weeks a year. That's a great deal of time.
So a lot of folks are saying he's lying, which is fair, but it might be worse if he's telling the truth.
posted by French Fry at 11:22 AM on March 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
Best answer: “What is this fuckwittage?” indeed! DTMFA. I’m surprised so many of these answers are telling you to keep doing a bunch more emotional labor to sort this out, when you have already done the lion’s share of it to try to change this guy’s preferred status quo of not having sex with you. Enough. In your shoes, I’d totally be feeling rejected, exasperated, and misled, too.
I'm watching my feelings pretty carefully. A couple of weeks ago I'd have said I enjoy his company enough to be friends with him even if he isn't into me That Way for whatever reason. But, like, I'm growing ever more wary. Is he just not being up front with me? Is he just too chicken to tell me to my face that he's not attracted to me? That's pretty shitty, right?
I think it is shitty of him, yes, given that you have already asked and asked about this, and you guys communicate (texting) everyday. You seem to highly value forthright honesty and are good at proactively talking about sex. You want more blunt honesty from him than he is willing to deliver. You’ve already asked him and asked again for what you want. His actions are saying no, but his words were saying yes (“full of promises of next time” and “OMG yes”) — which therefore feels dishonest and even cowardly on his part. That mismatch between his words and actions leads to wariness and mistrust. I think that’s totally understandable.
What you’re also saying is that your feelings about wanting him in your life as a friend have changed in the last few weeks. I get it. You’ve learned you cannot trust this man’s words. To be a friend, he’s got to be trustworthy, and he’s shown you he’s not up to your standard. Now believe him and move on with your one precious life. Loads of men out in the world will be ready, willing, and able to have honest, casual sex with you.
posted by edithkeeler at 4:16 AM on March 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
I'm watching my feelings pretty carefully. A couple of weeks ago I'd have said I enjoy his company enough to be friends with him even if he isn't into me That Way for whatever reason. But, like, I'm growing ever more wary. Is he just not being up front with me? Is he just too chicken to tell me to my face that he's not attracted to me? That's pretty shitty, right?
I think it is shitty of him, yes, given that you have already asked and asked about this, and you guys communicate (texting) everyday. You seem to highly value forthright honesty and are good at proactively talking about sex. You want more blunt honesty from him than he is willing to deliver. You’ve already asked him and asked again for what you want. His actions are saying no, but his words were saying yes (“full of promises of next time” and “OMG yes”) — which therefore feels dishonest and even cowardly on his part. That mismatch between his words and actions leads to wariness and mistrust. I think that’s totally understandable.
What you’re also saying is that your feelings about wanting him in your life as a friend have changed in the last few weeks. I get it. You’ve learned you cannot trust this man’s words. To be a friend, he’s got to be trustworthy, and he’s shown you he’s not up to your standard. Now believe him and move on with your one precious life. Loads of men out in the world will be ready, willing, and able to have honest, casual sex with you.
posted by edithkeeler at 4:16 AM on March 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks again for your input, everyone! I've decided to move on from expecting or wanting sex from this guy. I went on a date last night with someone else, and it felt niiiice to be on the receiving end of attraction vibes. So there's that. With THIS guy I'm loathe to give up how much fun it is to even just talk to him, so I'm keeping in touch with him for that. I'm not initiating any explicit conversation about the "demotion" (for lack of a better word). If he asks, then I'll let him know, but somehow I doubt he will, because he really seems like he's one of those men. [insert eyeroll]
posted by MiraK at 5:54 AM on March 21, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by MiraK at 5:54 AM on March 21, 2018 [4 favorites]
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You could also just tell him that where you are right now, you are looking for the next date to be a sex date, and is that what he wants or no? Ask if it would maybe be better to do a Sunday afternoon date (time to rest after the workweek) or if there's some other set of conditions that would suit his style/limitations better?
It's fine to plan sex out loud in advance, it doesn't have to be two people sitting around wondering if sex is going to break out.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:54 AM on March 19, 2018 [16 favorites]