Anxiety with ambiguity in early dating
October 2, 2017 8:42 PM Subscribe
I just started dating a friend I've gotten to know over the last 2 years and thought my usual dating anxiety would take much longer to show up but it unfortunately did not. He's not a huge texter but does a fair job of keeping in touch by text or occasionally a call. I feel extremely secure and assured in his interest whenever we talk on the phone or are together in person, but when a long time goes by and I don't hear from him and we don't have plans made, I start to ruminate and get anxious. We've only actually been dating for nearly 2 weeks (and talking/flirting for 2 months off and on) but I struggle with knowing when and how to talk to him about this before freaking out and ending it to spare my feelings.
To start off, he first texted me asking to meet to talk about how weird he was acting for the last 2 months (acting interested when together but then not following up afterwards). So far this has been the furthest in advance he scheduled something. When we met it turned out to be that he wanted to let me know he was worried about misreading something between me and another friend, that he was about to be very short on time due to starting a somewhat involved 6 month school program while also working full time, and that there was a small chance he'd be moving at the end of it if he did get a job offer elsewhere (but his focus was on staying in town). We also share the same community where we share a huge hobby and he works part time and he was afraid of messing up the security of that space. He wanted to talk to me about it before jumping in to something and so we decided to give it a shot and see how things go. I hadn't felt anxious in a while so I thought I could handle him not being so free because I already had a good, independent life, hobbies, and friends.
We have a fantastic time together and when we are in person I can tell he doesn't want the night to end as we just go on and on doing another thing, going to another place, and talking. Since our talk and first date we had been in touch every day, though some days might have been nothing if I didn’t text him at the last minute.
So far, he’s initiated calls to chat every so often and will occasionally text something short. However, he hasn’t been planning or setting up solid plans (and I’m not waiting very long for him to do so because I hate ambiguous plans when I’m excited about someone.) The weekend after our first chat, which was also a nice long date, he said he wanted to see me and we got together to spend the last half of a Sunday together and he ended up staying over (and we slept together). We’ve had a little bit of history during our flirting involving cuddling together on a group trip and making out while dancing drunk together, so this didn’t feel too rushed (I think).
He kept in touch the following day with random chatting and later saying how he had a great time. I happened to see him at his second job the day after that (he works Tue/Wed in the evenings there) where we got to chat for a few more hours and he called me to talk more after he was done. My friend who was present (who got to know him as I did) commented on how happy he looked. During the call he asked if I was busy later in the week/weekend and I helped him along by suggesting ideas which he was interested in but wasn’t like “yeah let’s do that!”. I told him I was also free Thurs/Fri and he said he thought he was as well but needed to check his schedule. I didn’t hear from him the next day so I texted at night asking how his day was. He seemed pleasant and asked how mine was, but when I saw he wasn’t going to say anything else I invited him to go to a show the following day. He said he was pretty sure he was free and seemed enthusiastic about it. Thurs he texts in the afternoon to ask how I was and we confirm plans for the evening. We have a really great time– there is no doubt he's interested. I feel completely silly for getting so anxious because I feel so secure with him. He often brings up things he wants to show me or do at other unspecified times. He stays the night again.
He texts me later in the day about something we talked about. I'm a bit focused on not having plans set for the weekend still (it’s Friday evening) since I have other things and friends I want to see, so I ask him if he's decided on what he’s doing yet. He says because he was so tired he hadn't really thought of anything. I can't tell if he thinks he needs to have a solid idea of an activity before scheduling something– I just want to know when I see him and don't particularly care what we do. I assure him it's fine but that I like to know what I'm doing ahead of time so I can make other plans too, and he says that's fair and says he's flexible to do anything. I suggest an activity to meet for the following afternoon and he says that sounds nice and that he'll plan on it.
Saturday morning he calls me to chat for a while and it’s very enjoyable and he’s interested in what I’ve been doing and how my morning was. He seemed ready to hang out earlier than I had planned so I told him I’d call him back when ready. He had several ideas for what we could do and we ended up doing all of them and more, and had a very memorable and engaging time together. I stayed over at his place for once and since it wasn’t a workday we were able to hang out for a long time in the morning and go to breakfast together before I left to meet with friends. I texted him later in the evening that I had a good time and he said he thoroughly enjoyed himself too.
So the following day I don’t hear from him and I’m mostly ok with it because I felt so reassured and safe when I was with him… By evening (when my anxiety can be the worst) I mostly stayed calm but was still somewhat agitated (looking at ask.meta a lot to compensate, rather than focusing on my actual hobbies and myself). I called him later in the evening to chat (first time I initiated that since I’m shy to call usually) and he seemed to enjoy talking with me. It was rather short as he was running errands and I did feel a tiny bit rushed at the end, but we did seem to run out of things to say. I didn’t want to hang up without addressing a little bit of where his head was at in regards to plans. He asked if I was busy later this week and I said I wasn’t really, but he didn’t suggest anything so I said “I guess we’ll talk soon? Or do you want to plan something later this week now?” His response was that he didn’t want to make plans before the next two days when he works his evening job because he doesn’t have time to think about it. He said he would talk with me in the next few days though and joked that he wasn’t just going to wait until the weekend to call me.
I’m not really liking not having plans set up ahead of time, and have a hard time separating someone not being a planner and them just not being interested. I’m also still struggling to learn what’s an appropriate way to identify what I need and ask for it, as I’m always afraid that what I’m asking for is too much or inappropriate. I’m especially uncertain since I feel that it’s too soon given how long we’ve been dating, but I also feel comfortable due the depth of conversation and length of time that we’ve known each other. I have a therapist I started seeing a few months ago about this issue, but wasn’t dating until just now and so I didn’t even think I still had this anxiety (but of course it doesn’t just disappear, unfortunately.)
I could really use some third party thoughts on:
1) his behavior and what it suggests (or doesn’t)
2) how do I engage this sort of conversation with him given the length of our friendship (longer) and our “relationship” (short)
3) whether or not I’m being too demanding in wanting him to initiate some plans (I know he doesn’t plan well with friends either and prefers to be invited to things)
Honestly, I feel like I'd be ok only talking to him every other day or so, if I just knew when I would see him next and had something to look forward to. I've had a lot of experiences with guys who tried to fade on me or tried to act like they weren't losing interest when they really were, and it's left a mark on me and my anxieties. I think he's much more mature than most of those guys, but I am definitely overly sensitive to when people pull away.
To start off, he first texted me asking to meet to talk about how weird he was acting for the last 2 months (acting interested when together but then not following up afterwards). So far this has been the furthest in advance he scheduled something. When we met it turned out to be that he wanted to let me know he was worried about misreading something between me and another friend, that he was about to be very short on time due to starting a somewhat involved 6 month school program while also working full time, and that there was a small chance he'd be moving at the end of it if he did get a job offer elsewhere (but his focus was on staying in town). We also share the same community where we share a huge hobby and he works part time and he was afraid of messing up the security of that space. He wanted to talk to me about it before jumping in to something and so we decided to give it a shot and see how things go. I hadn't felt anxious in a while so I thought I could handle him not being so free because I already had a good, independent life, hobbies, and friends.
We have a fantastic time together and when we are in person I can tell he doesn't want the night to end as we just go on and on doing another thing, going to another place, and talking. Since our talk and first date we had been in touch every day, though some days might have been nothing if I didn’t text him at the last minute.
So far, he’s initiated calls to chat every so often and will occasionally text something short. However, he hasn’t been planning or setting up solid plans (and I’m not waiting very long for him to do so because I hate ambiguous plans when I’m excited about someone.) The weekend after our first chat, which was also a nice long date, he said he wanted to see me and we got together to spend the last half of a Sunday together and he ended up staying over (and we slept together). We’ve had a little bit of history during our flirting involving cuddling together on a group trip and making out while dancing drunk together, so this didn’t feel too rushed (I think).
He kept in touch the following day with random chatting and later saying how he had a great time. I happened to see him at his second job the day after that (he works Tue/Wed in the evenings there) where we got to chat for a few more hours and he called me to talk more after he was done. My friend who was present (who got to know him as I did) commented on how happy he looked. During the call he asked if I was busy later in the week/weekend and I helped him along by suggesting ideas which he was interested in but wasn’t like “yeah let’s do that!”. I told him I was also free Thurs/Fri and he said he thought he was as well but needed to check his schedule. I didn’t hear from him the next day so I texted at night asking how his day was. He seemed pleasant and asked how mine was, but when I saw he wasn’t going to say anything else I invited him to go to a show the following day. He said he was pretty sure he was free and seemed enthusiastic about it. Thurs he texts in the afternoon to ask how I was and we confirm plans for the evening. We have a really great time– there is no doubt he's interested. I feel completely silly for getting so anxious because I feel so secure with him. He often brings up things he wants to show me or do at other unspecified times. He stays the night again.
He texts me later in the day about something we talked about. I'm a bit focused on not having plans set for the weekend still (it’s Friday evening) since I have other things and friends I want to see, so I ask him if he's decided on what he’s doing yet. He says because he was so tired he hadn't really thought of anything. I can't tell if he thinks he needs to have a solid idea of an activity before scheduling something– I just want to know when I see him and don't particularly care what we do. I assure him it's fine but that I like to know what I'm doing ahead of time so I can make other plans too, and he says that's fair and says he's flexible to do anything. I suggest an activity to meet for the following afternoon and he says that sounds nice and that he'll plan on it.
Saturday morning he calls me to chat for a while and it’s very enjoyable and he’s interested in what I’ve been doing and how my morning was. He seemed ready to hang out earlier than I had planned so I told him I’d call him back when ready. He had several ideas for what we could do and we ended up doing all of them and more, and had a very memorable and engaging time together. I stayed over at his place for once and since it wasn’t a workday we were able to hang out for a long time in the morning and go to breakfast together before I left to meet with friends. I texted him later in the evening that I had a good time and he said he thoroughly enjoyed himself too.
So the following day I don’t hear from him and I’m mostly ok with it because I felt so reassured and safe when I was with him… By evening (when my anxiety can be the worst) I mostly stayed calm but was still somewhat agitated (looking at ask.meta a lot to compensate, rather than focusing on my actual hobbies and myself). I called him later in the evening to chat (first time I initiated that since I’m shy to call usually) and he seemed to enjoy talking with me. It was rather short as he was running errands and I did feel a tiny bit rushed at the end, but we did seem to run out of things to say. I didn’t want to hang up without addressing a little bit of where his head was at in regards to plans. He asked if I was busy later this week and I said I wasn’t really, but he didn’t suggest anything so I said “I guess we’ll talk soon? Or do you want to plan something later this week now?” His response was that he didn’t want to make plans before the next two days when he works his evening job because he doesn’t have time to think about it. He said he would talk with me in the next few days though and joked that he wasn’t just going to wait until the weekend to call me.
I’m not really liking not having plans set up ahead of time, and have a hard time separating someone not being a planner and them just not being interested. I’m also still struggling to learn what’s an appropriate way to identify what I need and ask for it, as I’m always afraid that what I’m asking for is too much or inappropriate. I’m especially uncertain since I feel that it’s too soon given how long we’ve been dating, but I also feel comfortable due the depth of conversation and length of time that we’ve known each other. I have a therapist I started seeing a few months ago about this issue, but wasn’t dating until just now and so I didn’t even think I still had this anxiety (but of course it doesn’t just disappear, unfortunately.)
I could really use some third party thoughts on:
1) his behavior and what it suggests (or doesn’t)
2) how do I engage this sort of conversation with him given the length of our friendship (longer) and our “relationship” (short)
3) whether or not I’m being too demanding in wanting him to initiate some plans (I know he doesn’t plan well with friends either and prefers to be invited to things)
Honestly, I feel like I'd be ok only talking to him every other day or so, if I just knew when I would see him next and had something to look forward to. I've had a lot of experiences with guys who tried to fade on me or tried to act like they weren't losing interest when they really were, and it's left a mark on me and my anxieties. I think he's much more mature than most of those guys, but I am definitely overly sensitive to when people pull away.
You need to "lean out" of this relationship, to the point where his level of effort matches your own. I'm not saying be a "cool girl" or play coy anything, but he tried to manage your expectations by saying that he is "going to be very short on time." I know it's hard, but make yourself busier with friends, hobbies, etc.
posted by BusyBusyBusy at 10:55 PM on October 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by BusyBusyBusy at 10:55 PM on October 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
Also is this the same guy from your last question, where you got a "sense for how aloof/non-committal he really is" and where he "seemed dodgy and hard to schedule"? Because this might just be who he is, and it's up to you to take it or leave it.
posted by BusyBusyBusy at 11:04 PM on October 2, 2017
posted by BusyBusyBusy at 11:04 PM on October 2, 2017
I'm not really liking not having plans set up ahead of time, and have a hard time separating someone not being a planner and them just not being interested.
Dude, you've been dating for two weeks during which you have hung out with this dude or talked to him nearly every day and every single time both of you have been happy. He's definitely interested.
You mention that when he did have a couple ideas for some activities you could do together, you two "did all of them," and that they were really interesting and enjoyable. He probably just didn't have an awesome idea for a date off the top of his head when you asked him last time, and wanted to think about it since he seems to be trying pretty hard to come up with fun things you will like.
In sum, it sounds to me like this dude likes you a lot, he's just busy and not someone who texts everyday. Maybe try reframing his actions to yourself that way for a bit and see if that lines up with his behaviour? Like, try approaching your analysis of him with that as your starting point. Strength of feeling and frequency of contact are not the same thing.
posted by Diablevert at 12:39 AM on October 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
Dude, you've been dating for two weeks during which you have hung out with this dude or talked to him nearly every day and every single time both of you have been happy. He's definitely interested.
You mention that when he did have a couple ideas for some activities you could do together, you two "did all of them," and that they were really interesting and enjoyable. He probably just didn't have an awesome idea for a date off the top of his head when you asked him last time, and wanted to think about it since he seems to be trying pretty hard to come up with fun things you will like.
In sum, it sounds to me like this dude likes you a lot, he's just busy and not someone who texts everyday. Maybe try reframing his actions to yourself that way for a bit and see if that lines up with his behaviour? Like, try approaching your analysis of him with that as your starting point. Strength of feeling and frequency of contact are not the same thing.
posted by Diablevert at 12:39 AM on October 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
All evidence is that this guy likes you a lot. That is a ton of contact for a two week relationship. You don’t have to worry about that.
Dude also works two jobs, and it sounds like at least one of these jobs has an irregular schedule. That alone might explain why he’s not initiating plans; he may not know what time he has free that far in advance.
I am also the kind of person who prefers to be invited to things rather than planning activities myself. I have a bunch of my own anxieties that I bring to the table: I get worried that the other person will think my ideas are boring, or that they don’t really want to go but will feel obligated to come, or that I’m going to screw something up in planning and the date will go badly as a result.
This is 100% speculation, but your guy might share similar anxieties too.
The fact that he does this with other friends too suggests that you shouldn’t use this as an indication of the strength of your relationship.
posted by JDHarper at 1:32 AM on October 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
Dude also works two jobs, and it sounds like at least one of these jobs has an irregular schedule. That alone might explain why he’s not initiating plans; he may not know what time he has free that far in advance.
I am also the kind of person who prefers to be invited to things rather than planning activities myself. I have a bunch of my own anxieties that I bring to the table: I get worried that the other person will think my ideas are boring, or that they don’t really want to go but will feel obligated to come, or that I’m going to screw something up in planning and the date will go badly as a result.
This is 100% speculation, but your guy might share similar anxieties too.
The fact that he does this with other friends too suggests that you shouldn’t use this as an indication of the strength of your relationship.
posted by JDHarper at 1:32 AM on October 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: I wanted to come back here to give a nice little ending to this story in case anyone ever stumbles into this through a search.
11 months later and the relationship was a dud. It got way, way better after many conversations and arguments. His reasons for not planning dates was because he felt he wasn't at a time in his life to commit because of his financial/job situation. We broke up after 4 months, and just 3 weeks later he's contacting me saying he wants to try again. When we met, I thought we talked about him opening up and being ready for more, but even though we got closer and spent more of our lives together, communicating a little every day like I had expressed I needed, and I was really feeling more secure with him, every now and again the fact that he would never intitiate plans– ever– drove me insane and did in fact bring back anxieties. Whenever we talked about it, surprise, surprise, he again says he's not in a place to commit to deepening or advancing the relationship. And that he already told me that. I was torn because he was showing a lot of commitment already, and to me all I was asking for was him to tell me 1-2 days in advance every now and then "hey, I want to see you. Let's go for a walk and make dinner together Thursday." That's it. But it was too much for him to commit to, you see. I was just supposed to wait until we were both off work to figure out "what's up" every day, which is fine if you have some plans every now and then. We saw each other enough that I didn't feel needy for a while, but not putting any effort into the relationship made me start losing attraction to him and feeling resentful.
So after 10-11 months together I had enough and broke it off. I thought it was amicable and mutual and that we would loosely stay in touch in case he found a job in his new field and could financially support himself again. But he turned angry and a bit crazy with the pain of the breakup because I had asked for space and didn't talk to him for 5 days. And now he won't leave me alone and is regretful but still not honoring my request for space.
Just a message to anyone dating someone who starts out this way. The advice I got was good but in retrospect I was picking up on vibes I got from him before we even started dating. The advice would have been more spot-on if we were strangers who were dating for 2 weeks. Sometimes you need to trust your gut too. I felt anxiety for a reason.
posted by korrasamus at 3:00 PM on August 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
11 months later and the relationship was a dud. It got way, way better after many conversations and arguments. His reasons for not planning dates was because he felt he wasn't at a time in his life to commit because of his financial/job situation. We broke up after 4 months, and just 3 weeks later he's contacting me saying he wants to try again. When we met, I thought we talked about him opening up and being ready for more, but even though we got closer and spent more of our lives together, communicating a little every day like I had expressed I needed, and I was really feeling more secure with him, every now and again the fact that he would never intitiate plans– ever– drove me insane and did in fact bring back anxieties. Whenever we talked about it, surprise, surprise, he again says he's not in a place to commit to deepening or advancing the relationship. And that he already told me that. I was torn because he was showing a lot of commitment already, and to me all I was asking for was him to tell me 1-2 days in advance every now and then "hey, I want to see you. Let's go for a walk and make dinner together Thursday." That's it. But it was too much for him to commit to, you see. I was just supposed to wait until we were both off work to figure out "what's up" every day, which is fine if you have some plans every now and then. We saw each other enough that I didn't feel needy for a while, but not putting any effort into the relationship made me start losing attraction to him and feeling resentful.
So after 10-11 months together I had enough and broke it off. I thought it was amicable and mutual and that we would loosely stay in touch in case he found a job in his new field and could financially support himself again. But he turned angry and a bit crazy with the pain of the breakup because I had asked for space and didn't talk to him for 5 days. And now he won't leave me alone and is regretful but still not honoring my request for space.
Just a message to anyone dating someone who starts out this way. The advice I got was good but in retrospect I was picking up on vibes I got from him before we even started dating. The advice would have been more spot-on if we were strangers who were dating for 2 weeks. Sometimes you need to trust your gut too. I felt anxiety for a reason.
posted by korrasamus at 3:00 PM on August 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
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posted by studioaudience at 10:53 PM on October 2, 2017 [3 favorites]