Why is my employer re-requesting my passport and SS card?
September 20, 2017 4:21 PM Subscribe
Calling all Human Resources managers! I'm suspicious that my boss is up to something fishy, and I'm not sure if these suspicions are valid or not. He says the reason for the request is employment eligibility verification, however, I already provided these documents when I was hired. More details below.
I was working for a temp agency, and they placed me with my current company at the start of March 2017. The position was temp-to-hire and after my 90 days, the company purchased my contract, hired me, and promoted me to a desk job. Once they officially hired me on they had me bring in the necessary documents- my passport and my social security card. Today I didn't feel well and left two hours early. My boss seemed upset about it but I promised to make up the hours. Then tonight I receive a text from him requesting I bring these documents in again for employment eligibility verification, but I can't help but assume there are ill-intentions here.
I haven't had any "issues" of my employment aside from a few tardies. I havent been written up, either. I am concerned though that they're asking me to bring these things in in an attempt to terminate me. The reason I feel this way is because I have monthly doctors appointments which I've been assured won't be an issue as long as I make up the hours. They seem dissatisfied with me in my current role for seemingly no reason whatsoever, and I believe they're going to utilize some sort of small business loophole in order to terminate me. Should I be as concerned as I am?
I was working for a temp agency, and they placed me with my current company at the start of March 2017. The position was temp-to-hire and after my 90 days, the company purchased my contract, hired me, and promoted me to a desk job. Once they officially hired me on they had me bring in the necessary documents- my passport and my social security card. Today I didn't feel well and left two hours early. My boss seemed upset about it but I promised to make up the hours. Then tonight I receive a text from him requesting I bring these documents in again for employment eligibility verification, but I can't help but assume there are ill-intentions here.
I haven't had any "issues" of my employment aside from a few tardies. I havent been written up, either. I am concerned though that they're asking me to bring these things in in an attempt to terminate me. The reason I feel this way is because I have monthly doctors appointments which I've been assured won't be an issue as long as I make up the hours. They seem dissatisfied with me in my current role for seemingly no reason whatsoever, and I believe they're going to utilize some sort of small business loophole in order to terminate me. Should I be as concerned as I am?
Asking to bring in the documents is not a problem on its own - maybe they've misplaced some photocopies; maybe they're changing something involving corporate insurance; etc. However, texting you about them when you've gone home sick is weird - why the hurry?
However, most likley is "we failed to file the paperwork when we were supposed to and now we're getting close to a quarterly/annual deadline."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:34 PM on September 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
However, most likley is "we failed to file the paperwork when we were supposed to and now we're getting close to a quarterly/annual deadline."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:34 PM on September 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
One thing to consider: they purchased your contract and paid the accompanying agency fees. That's not trivial - I know because someone hired me this way and told me the whole cost in one of my previous jobs. They bought your contract at the end of May. You haven't even been a real employee for more than one quarter. It's not impossible that they are dissatisfied and looking to fire you, but unless you have some really strong, direct feedback that they are significantly dissatisfied with specific things, I think this is unlikely - they're put a LOT of money into you at this point. It's not that they would never cut their losses, but it is unlikely to happen in the fourth month of your job.
Do you have reason to believe that there is something lurking in your past that they did not know but that would disqualify you from the job, and that they may be doing some further background verification? This would be something you would know about, like if they told you that you had to have X qualification to hold the job and they did not do enough diligence to find that you in fact do not have that qualification - not "we don't like you, so we're going to fire you because you had a parking ticket in 2014 and your credit is so-so".
My bet is that they did something wrong when they verified your employment the first time.
Also - and take this with a grain of salt - are you prone to anxiety? Or do you have trouble reading other people? For me personally, my head is always at "I made a mistake, they hate me, they are going to fire me", but this is not how any actual job I've ever done has worked except the most exploitative and terrible. I really have to work on myself to remind myself that it's not about me all the time - my boss is probably stressed not because I had to be reminded to wrap up the widget report but because of, like, an actual business thing.
And also: have you had many full time office jobs before? Sometimes it's hard to adjust to the norms and to what tends to get people actually fired (given a reasonably healthy workplace).
If you meet the qualifications for this job and have not been reprimanded or seriously criticized for failing to meet reasonable standards (not just you worrying about failing to be perfect after 3 months), then I think you should just breathe and assume it will be fine.
posted by Frowner at 4:49 PM on September 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
Do you have reason to believe that there is something lurking in your past that they did not know but that would disqualify you from the job, and that they may be doing some further background verification? This would be something you would know about, like if they told you that you had to have X qualification to hold the job and they did not do enough diligence to find that you in fact do not have that qualification - not "we don't like you, so we're going to fire you because you had a parking ticket in 2014 and your credit is so-so".
My bet is that they did something wrong when they verified your employment the first time.
Also - and take this with a grain of salt - are you prone to anxiety? Or do you have trouble reading other people? For me personally, my head is always at "I made a mistake, they hate me, they are going to fire me", but this is not how any actual job I've ever done has worked except the most exploitative and terrible. I really have to work on myself to remind myself that it's not about me all the time - my boss is probably stressed not because I had to be reminded to wrap up the widget report but because of, like, an actual business thing.
And also: have you had many full time office jobs before? Sometimes it's hard to adjust to the norms and to what tends to get people actually fired (given a reasonably healthy workplace).
If you meet the qualifications for this job and have not been reprimanded or seriously criticized for failing to meet reasonable standards (not just you worrying about failing to be perfect after 3 months), then I think you should just breathe and assume it will be fine.
posted by Frowner at 4:49 PM on September 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
unless you have some really strong, direct feedback that they are significantly dissatisfied with specific things, I think this is unlikely - they're put a LOT of money into you at this point.
Many staffing agencies have some kind of guarantee period -- if the employee doesn't stay/work out for a set period of time, they'll return the fee or refill the role for free. So this timing might equally be suggestive that they want to NOT have spent that money.
posted by jacquilynne at 4:51 PM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Many staffing agencies have some kind of guarantee period -- if the employee doesn't stay/work out for a set period of time, they'll return the fee or refill the role for free. So this timing might equally be suggestive that they want to NOT have spent that money.
posted by jacquilynne at 4:51 PM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Either they didn't get employment verification when they hired you off the staffing agency and they're supposed to have everyone's in order to complete some kind of audit, or they didn't get it and they realized it when they started the paperwork to terminate you or write you up.
There's no scenario in which not presenting it gets you not-fired if that's what they're planning. The text message is not a great sign, but again it may have more to do with your boss not getting this stuff before now and has decided this is somehow an appropriate way to get caught up. It may be meant to make you nervous, if he's a dick.
I sympathize because I assume I'm getting fired if the wind changes directions, because I suffer from anxiety, but you will know soon enough. There's nothing you can do to change anything at this point.
posted by Lyn Never at 5:02 PM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
There's no scenario in which not presenting it gets you not-fired if that's what they're planning. The text message is not a great sign, but again it may have more to do with your boss not getting this stuff before now and has decided this is somehow an appropriate way to get caught up. It may be meant to make you nervous, if he's a dick.
I sympathize because I assume I'm getting fired if the wind changes directions, because I suffer from anxiety, but you will know soon enough. There's nothing you can do to change anything at this point.
posted by Lyn Never at 5:02 PM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
The text message could just be because he wants it as soon as possible and that means you bringing it with you tomorrow, and you'd need to know to grab it tonight.
posted by fingersandtoes at 5:10 PM on September 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by fingersandtoes at 5:10 PM on September 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
Echoing Frowner that it's harder to get fired for poor performance at a typical office job than you'd think, that four months in would be a weird time to do it (if you didn't get let go in your first couple of months, they're probably going to at least try to keep you long-term), and that if you were going to be fired for performance-related reasons you'd probably already have been given formal warnings and have had some painful conversations with your boss about your performance.
It's probably just some weird bureaucratic thing totally unconnected to your going home early. Your boss probably texted you because he was thinking about it right then and he has less-than-perfect boundaries about working during off hours, which is annoying but super common. In your shoes I would be mildly annoyed, but not worried.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:10 PM on September 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's probably just some weird bureaucratic thing totally unconnected to your going home early. Your boss probably texted you because he was thinking about it right then and he has less-than-perfect boundaries about working during off hours, which is annoying but super common. In your shoes I would be mildly annoyed, but not worried.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:10 PM on September 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think this is just something they need internally to paper. If, you are concerned, contact HR directly and ask them if they need the documents as you just presented them a few months ago. The only reason to think they might be firing you if they are asking for these documents is if they either think they are fraudulent or they did not check out in some way. If you presented genuine accurate documents the first time, present the same ones and don't worry about it.
Maybe someone else has been using your SS number and the IRS is questioning the documents. This could be a good thing if your number is being used by someone else fraudulently.
posted by AugustWest at 5:12 PM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Maybe someone else has been using your SS number and the IRS is questioning the documents. This could be a good thing if your number is being used by someone else fraudulently.
posted by AugustWest at 5:12 PM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yeah, this looks bad.
My guess is that they want to go over your documents in hopes of finding something that would have made you ineligible to be sent to them by the employment agency in the first place according to their agreement with the agency, and if they do find such a thing they'll be able to reclaim the money they spent purchasing your contract from the agency.
posted by jamjam at 5:16 PM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
My guess is that they want to go over your documents in hopes of finding something that would have made you ineligible to be sent to them by the employment agency in the first place according to their agreement with the agency, and if they do find such a thing they'll be able to reclaim the money they spent purchasing your contract from the agency.
posted by jamjam at 5:16 PM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Whilst there may be wider issues behind this don't dismiss disorganisation/lost information. A few years ago I was working with either a recruiter or temping agency (can't remember which). Several months after my dealings with them were finished they called me to ask for a copy of my passport. I ignored them and they tried a number of times. I assume they were preparing for an audit if some description. I am also asked, intermittently, to provide my work permit to work - it does have an expiration date but that is every 5 years and they ask more often than that.
posted by koahiatamadl at 5:34 PM on September 20, 2017
posted by koahiatamadl at 5:34 PM on September 20, 2017
It's worth thinking about what they could possibly discover from your SSN and passport that they don't already know. If they had the SSN and passport before, they could already have run any background checks that they need to - they don't need to see your passport to find out if, eg, you are for some reason not qualified to work in the US. They have that info already. The only thing they get by seeing these documents is proof that you have the documents, and the only reason they need that is if they have not got enough proof for bureaucratic requirements. I suppose it's conceivable that they are hoping that you will have lost one or both in the past three months and then they can declare you ineligible to work....but that's loony toons.
It is extremely unlikely that they are going to use these documents to "discover" something wrong about your employment - what could they discover with the paper documents that they could not already find with the records they kept from when you first presented them?
The only thing that makes sense is that for some reason they did not keep the right kind of records - maybe they have a policy of copying the documents and the HR person forgot, maybe they have a policy of noting down not just the existence of the passport but the passport number and they forgot to do that.
I have been through a couple of medium-level background checks as part of hiring - and they made me nervous even though I knew I was going to pass! - and the thing is, any even remotely reputable employer is going to have you sign releases and provide information, not just grab your SSN and run a bunch of checks without telling you upfront. It seems vanishingly unlikely that they would not have mentioned if they were using your info to run checks, and even if they had run a background check, it is conventional to complete it before hiring, and even if something pops up later, it is conventional to ask the employee about it because there are false positives - it would be weird to be all "we ran some checks, we found something dubious, bring in your passport and SSN again to prove that you really are this dubious person".
I just don't see why they would want your documents as part of a "how can we fire OMGkinky" deal.
posted by Frowner at 5:43 PM on September 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
It is extremely unlikely that they are going to use these documents to "discover" something wrong about your employment - what could they discover with the paper documents that they could not already find with the records they kept from when you first presented them?
The only thing that makes sense is that for some reason they did not keep the right kind of records - maybe they have a policy of copying the documents and the HR person forgot, maybe they have a policy of noting down not just the existence of the passport but the passport number and they forgot to do that.
I have been through a couple of medium-level background checks as part of hiring - and they made me nervous even though I knew I was going to pass! - and the thing is, any even remotely reputable employer is going to have you sign releases and provide information, not just grab your SSN and run a bunch of checks without telling you upfront. It seems vanishingly unlikely that they would not have mentioned if they were using your info to run checks, and even if they had run a background check, it is conventional to complete it before hiring, and even if something pops up later, it is conventional to ask the employee about it because there are false positives - it would be weird to be all "we ran some checks, we found something dubious, bring in your passport and SSN again to prove that you really are this dubious person".
I just don't see why they would want your documents as part of a "how can we fire OMGkinky" deal.
posted by Frowner at 5:43 PM on September 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
Just as a data point: I was asked to re-submit my I-9 verification stuff (which I remember vividly because I realized as I did it that my passport was expired) a few months ago and then noooot very long afterward we found out we'd been acquired by another company. But I have also been asked to re-up my I-9 at other companies too in what was clearly an HR housekeeping sweep. There could certainly be business reasons that have nothing to do with you personally.
So really, unless they actually think you are working under an assumed identity this is not some cloak-and-dagger plot to find a reason to fire you. But it may be something they noticed as they checked your personnel file, which might have happened in the process of some action to take disciplinary steps against you.
posted by Lyn Never at 6:13 PM on September 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
So really, unless they actually think you are working under an assumed identity this is not some cloak-and-dagger plot to find a reason to fire you. But it may be something they noticed as they checked your personnel file, which might have happened in the process of some action to take disciplinary steps against you.
posted by Lyn Never at 6:13 PM on September 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yep, I had to resubmit my documents when we got purchased. I ALSO had to be subjected to a full new background check when getting promoted under this new structure.
posted by destructive cactus at 6:17 PM on September 20, 2017
posted by destructive cactus at 6:17 PM on September 20, 2017
My bet is that they lost the copies. Don't worry. I collect these docs from new employees. If I lost the copies, I'd freak out.
posted by janey47 at 7:01 PM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by janey47 at 7:01 PM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
I have personally had to request these from employees ASAP while we were doing internal I-9 audits. It had nothing to do with performance, job security, being purchased, nothing -- just "Oh shit, we screwed up x and y, z is in our HRIS system all wrong now, and let's go through everything with a fine-toothed comb and fix what we can."
posted by ThatSomething at 7:43 PM on September 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by ThatSomething at 7:43 PM on September 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
The newest version of Form I-9 became mandatory on Sept. 18. Do you work for a small company? Maybe whoever does your I-9s got confused by the new requirements and thinks they need a new one for everyone (truth is, they don't). My vote is for either that or they just realized they didn't complete some HR thing and now they need the forms again to do that. I can't think of any reason they would need those docs in order to fire you. Did either of your documents recently expire? That's another reason they may ask for new ones.
posted by ZabeLeeZoo at 8:23 PM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by ZabeLeeZoo at 8:23 PM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Well, the other thing is, they're requesting both? Isn't a passport enough for an I-9? And either would have your SSN if they're thinking of doing some kind of background check. So my theory is that, since they're requesting the exact same documents that you provided last time, it's most likely that they have the I-9, they lost the copies of the supporting documentation, and they are cleaning things up.
posted by salvia at 8:23 PM on September 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by salvia at 8:23 PM on September 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
Someone just realized that either they didn't get copies, or the original copies they made were unreadable, or someone forgot to transfer the scanned files off the network drive and now they're in a sea of three million PDFs with nonsense file names, or whatever.
posted by Sequence at 8:25 PM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Sequence at 8:25 PM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
> Someone just realized that either they didn't get copies, or the original copies they made were unreadable, or someone forgot to transfer the scanned files off the network drive and now they're in a sea of three million PDFs with nonsense file names, or whatever.
Yeah, this was my immediate thought as well. Someone just got told that their I-9s are subject to audit and they realized that the documentation is a mess.
posted by desuetude at 11:04 PM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yeah, this was my immediate thought as well. Someone just got told that their I-9s are subject to audit and they realized that the documentation is a mess.
posted by desuetude at 11:04 PM on September 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
My company uses some third-party online system for this verification that has an abysmal user interface. When I was hired my boss thought he completed the process, but something wasn't done right and I had to bring them back in. Then when I made my next hire, I remember it being obvious how anyone could easily screw it up based on the bad system design. So it's quite possible something got missed somewhere and they just need to get everything in order. As mentioned above, it's unlikely this request would be in any way related to firing you.
posted by thejanna at 6:36 AM on September 21, 2017
posted by thejanna at 6:36 AM on September 21, 2017
I hope you update us!
Also, is there someone at work you can talk to about the sense that they are "dissatisfied" with your performance?
One thing I've noticed: it is common to have a sort of "failure period" after the honeymoon phase in a new job - you're learning new, harder things and trying to integrate more, you're no longer "wow, really good for a temp" and you've lost some of the new job excitement/momentum. This does not mean you are a bad hire - it just means that you need to do your new responsibilities for a longer period and learn them. If you have a sympathetic supervisor or mentor (or the person who did some training with you) can you talk to them and ask them for feedback, or for extra training on the things you're struggling with? It's okay to struggle in a job. Most jobs with any complexity at all have at _least_ a year learning curve - this is one reason why people often don't want to fire/hire/fire/hire on a rapid basis.
I hope this all worked out well!
posted by Frowner at 6:48 AM on September 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Also, is there someone at work you can talk to about the sense that they are "dissatisfied" with your performance?
One thing I've noticed: it is common to have a sort of "failure period" after the honeymoon phase in a new job - you're learning new, harder things and trying to integrate more, you're no longer "wow, really good for a temp" and you've lost some of the new job excitement/momentum. This does not mean you are a bad hire - it just means that you need to do your new responsibilities for a longer period and learn them. If you have a sympathetic supervisor or mentor (or the person who did some training with you) can you talk to them and ask them for feedback, or for extra training on the things you're struggling with? It's okay to struggle in a job. Most jobs with any complexity at all have at _least_ a year learning curve - this is one reason why people often don't want to fire/hire/fire/hire on a rapid basis.
I hope this all worked out well!
posted by Frowner at 6:48 AM on September 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
FWIW, the third party payroll processor my job uses just sent out an email to all the people at my work asking us to re-submit info for the I-9 form (which is basically Social Security card and drivers license or passport), because they're deploying a new system (and apparently too incompetent to just migrate the data they already have, I guess?).
So if y'all use the same payroll service...
posted by genehack at 7:28 AM on September 21, 2017
So if y'all use the same payroll service...
posted by genehack at 7:28 AM on September 21, 2017
Was everyone asked to resubmit? We had to resubmit ours company-wide when we switched payroll companies. But even if you're the only one asked, it could still just be that they misplaced yours. Doesn't necessarily mean something is up, but I understand your worry.
posted by jhope71 at 10:23 AM on September 21, 2017
posted by jhope71 at 10:23 AM on September 21, 2017
The government just issued a new I-9 form ("just" as in 3 days ago). All HR folk have to collect the information anew. From the alert I received at the end of July: "The U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) has released a new version of and instructions for the Form I-9, Employment Eligibility Verification. By September 18, 2017, employers must use only the new version."
Some HR folk prefer to collect the copies themselves and return the originals, some ask employees to scan their own copies in and email PDFs. The sense of urgency is likely linked to the payroll organization (or whoever handles compliance for your employer) sending a scary email on the 18th, which your HRM may not have gotten to until yesterday.
IAAHRM, IANYHRM.
posted by pammeke at 1:45 PM on September 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Some HR folk prefer to collect the copies themselves and return the originals, some ask employees to scan their own copies in and email PDFs. The sense of urgency is likely linked to the payroll organization (or whoever handles compliance for your employer) sending a scary email on the 18th, which your HRM may not have gotten to until yesterday.
IAAHRM, IANYHRM.
posted by pammeke at 1:45 PM on September 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
I have no idea why they want the documents, but your theory is not particularly compelling.
I am concerned though that they're asking me to bring these things in in an attempt to terminate me.
They don't need those things to fire you. In general, they can fire you for any reason that does not involve a federally protected classification. If they really wanted you gone, there's no reason to get you to come in to bring documents - they could just tell you you're fired. Assuming laziness, it's much more likely your boss just found out that the I-9 documents that should have been filled out when you started were not in order and your boss needs to fix that now.
posted by saeculorum at 4:26 PM on September 20, 2017 [20 favorites]