How to consider CS grad school while starting work in industry?
May 1, 2017 8:53 PM Subscribe
Slightly complicated scenario, beginning career but also just starting to think about grad school.
I'm graduating from a no-research Masters program in computer science this spring. I enrolled in the program because after dinking around with coding in various jobs after college graduation, I realized that I liked math & CS and kept doing technical things even when they weren't in my job description, so I might as well get with the program. My original goal was to get a job with a decent salary and be able to find work in various cities (since my partner was possibly applying to grad school at the time, I wanted to be mobile). I had taken a CS course as a freshman in undergrad and enjoyed it, so I was looking forward to the career change.
I ended up getting a really good job offer from a Big Company in Silicon Valley, which was beyond what I thought I would accomplish. As mentioned, my program didn't require research, but I decided to get involved in research over the summer to expand my horizons; I ended up contributing to a published paper (in a good venue; one of the top for the subject material) and really enjoyed the experience. I found research stressful but interesting and exciting. I also felt like I was working in a good group, which may have been a factor; everyone was very kind and direct, no passive-aggressive politics, so I may have gotten lucky.
Anyway, I write all this not to impress anyone (which I'm sure it really would not) but because I had never previously considered grad school in CS, assuming I was not talented enough, that research was too scary, and that I hated teaching. Last quarter, I decided to leave my part-time job and become a TA, despite (because of?) my fear of teaching. It turned out that was greatly exaggerated as well-- I actually really enjoyed teaching students and helping them through their struggles, and kind of looked forward to my office hours.
I'm graduating soon, beginning my new job this summer and greatly looking forward to it. However, I've had such a gradual change of heart about academia over the last couple years that I want to keep my mind somewhat open to the idea that I might return eventually for a PhD. Most of the PhD students I know in CS went straight from undergrad to graduate school; I don't know anyone there who came from industry. I know that it happens, though. I'm just wondering, now that I'm awkwardly leaving school while thinking about coming back, what I could consider going forward to improve my chances of getting into a good (or good fit) program. What do admissions committees think of people coming from industry? What, if anything, could I hypothetically do while working in industry to be a better and more capable (and self-aware) candidate?
I will admit I've always been drawn to academia and feel more at home there than in an office. On the other hand, I've never been a working developer, so I might like it more than school. Also, importantly, I've been a poor student/poor entry-level employee for all of my adult life, and I have about ~$80,000 in student loans at this point which I would really like to attack while I have a good salary. So I'm not prematurely thinking of changing my whole life's trajectory; I am just trying to think about all the factors, academic and practical, so that going forward I don't feel lost or pigeonholed if it turns out I do want to return for a PhD. I remember reading once about a CS prof who discovered he wanted to do a PhD while doing research at his first job; naturally, I would be interest in doing research at work, but I don't know how likely that is to happen in a huge company that probably has lots of talented researchers.
As a side note, my GPA is good but not excellent (by graduation it will be somewhere around 3.7 give or take a little, maybe closer to 3.65). Partially this is because I worked too much when I started the program; wish I could go back and focus more on my classes.
I also have a deep and abiding fear of the tech bubble bursting and finding myself stranded, laid off, without a job and watching the industry/academia get choked off with too many CS grads. But I don't really know what would be a smart decision going forward regardless!
I'm graduating from a no-research Masters program in computer science this spring. I enrolled in the program because after dinking around with coding in various jobs after college graduation, I realized that I liked math & CS and kept doing technical things even when they weren't in my job description, so I might as well get with the program. My original goal was to get a job with a decent salary and be able to find work in various cities (since my partner was possibly applying to grad school at the time, I wanted to be mobile). I had taken a CS course as a freshman in undergrad and enjoyed it, so I was looking forward to the career change.
I ended up getting a really good job offer from a Big Company in Silicon Valley, which was beyond what I thought I would accomplish. As mentioned, my program didn't require research, but I decided to get involved in research over the summer to expand my horizons; I ended up contributing to a published paper (in a good venue; one of the top for the subject material) and really enjoyed the experience. I found research stressful but interesting and exciting. I also felt like I was working in a good group, which may have been a factor; everyone was very kind and direct, no passive-aggressive politics, so I may have gotten lucky.
Anyway, I write all this not to impress anyone (which I'm sure it really would not) but because I had never previously considered grad school in CS, assuming I was not talented enough, that research was too scary, and that I hated teaching. Last quarter, I decided to leave my part-time job and become a TA, despite (because of?) my fear of teaching. It turned out that was greatly exaggerated as well-- I actually really enjoyed teaching students and helping them through their struggles, and kind of looked forward to my office hours.
I'm graduating soon, beginning my new job this summer and greatly looking forward to it. However, I've had such a gradual change of heart about academia over the last couple years that I want to keep my mind somewhat open to the idea that I might return eventually for a PhD. Most of the PhD students I know in CS went straight from undergrad to graduate school; I don't know anyone there who came from industry. I know that it happens, though. I'm just wondering, now that I'm awkwardly leaving school while thinking about coming back, what I could consider going forward to improve my chances of getting into a good (or good fit) program. What do admissions committees think of people coming from industry? What, if anything, could I hypothetically do while working in industry to be a better and more capable (and self-aware) candidate?
I will admit I've always been drawn to academia and feel more at home there than in an office. On the other hand, I've never been a working developer, so I might like it more than school. Also, importantly, I've been a poor student/poor entry-level employee for all of my adult life, and I have about ~$80,000 in student loans at this point which I would really like to attack while I have a good salary. So I'm not prematurely thinking of changing my whole life's trajectory; I am just trying to think about all the factors, academic and practical, so that going forward I don't feel lost or pigeonholed if it turns out I do want to return for a PhD. I remember reading once about a CS prof who discovered he wanted to do a PhD while doing research at his first job; naturally, I would be interest in doing research at work, but I don't know how likely that is to happen in a huge company that probably has lots of talented researchers.
As a side note, my GPA is good but not excellent (by graduation it will be somewhere around 3.7 give or take a little, maybe closer to 3.65). Partially this is because I worked too much when I started the program; wish I could go back and focus more on my classes.
I also have a deep and abiding fear of the tech bubble bursting and finding myself stranded, laid off, without a job and watching the industry/academia get choked off with too many CS grads. But I don't really know what would be a smart decision going forward regardless!
Academia requires self-motivation, in return for which you get to pick what you are working on (as long as it's publishable). Competition is also intense. Someone I knew who worked in both business and academia said politics is worse in academia because everyone is very smart and the have the free time.... In comparison, in business you work on someone else's problems. Someone has to do the grunt work, and it might be you, no matter how many degrees you have. Quite likely, you will never, ever, even once encounter a situation that made use of your deep understand of [whatever] that made you some happy about yourself in school. In most large companies, software development is an intensely team-structured activity.
posted by SemiSalt at 9:38 AM on May 2, 2017
posted by SemiSalt at 9:38 AM on May 2, 2017
What do admissions committees think of people coming from industry?
Most will be quite happy, especially if you have a good academic record, and a compelling statement of purpose that shows that you've been keeping yourself up to date on research, and have some specific questions that interest you. Ask your professors to write letters for you now while their memory is fresh, and keep them on file.
Although I went straight to grad school from undergrad, I noticed my classmates who came from a few years in industry were more disciplined and motivated.
I remember reading once about a CS prof who discovered he wanted to do a PhD while doing research at his first job; naturally, I would be interest in doing research at work, but I don't know how likely that is to happen in a huge company that probably has lots of talented researchers.
It will be hard to do core research in the standard BigCompanies, yes. But you can always look around at internal opportunities, and try to get on a research project. They'll probably take you on as a developer, but it exposes you to the ideas, and it always helps to have implementation experience if you go to grad school.
Government contractors like Lincoln Labs, SRI, or BBN will put undergrads on research projects right away, in case you're keeping your job options open for the near future. These companies have their own drawbacks compared to Silicon Valley, though.
If you can specify what your research interests are, we can get more specific. For example, some fields, like theory, have few if any non-academic research opportunities, whereas (applied) machine learning, HCI, and systems play with industry quite well.
posted by redlines at 11:19 AM on May 3, 2017
Someone has to do the grunt work, and it might be you, no matter how many degrees you have.
A common misconception is that academics never do any grunt work. This is far from true. Most teaching and advising involves a ton of grunt work. You'll likely have to be on committees and sit through pointless meetings. You will get an insane number of e-mails every day that require your attention but don't benefit your work in any way. Unless you're in a top department, you'll have very little administrative support.
Of course, there are great benefits to academia, chiefly, the opportunity to do core research, and the flexibility, so it's usually worth it.
posted by redlines at 11:26 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
A common misconception is that academics never do any grunt work. This is far from true. Most teaching and advising involves a ton of grunt work. You'll likely have to be on committees and sit through pointless meetings. You will get an insane number of e-mails every day that require your attention but don't benefit your work in any way. Unless you're in a top department, you'll have very little administrative support.
Of course, there are great benefits to academia, chiefly, the opportunity to do core research, and the flexibility, so it's usually worth it.
posted by redlines at 11:26 AM on May 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Computer science tends to be more open to people moving back and forth from industry to academia than some other disciplines. I completed a professional masters program a while back, and during orientation they were bragging about someone who had entered the program, discovered he enjoyed it way more than he thought he would, and ended up applying to PhD programs.
One problem you may run into is letters of recommendation -- a couple of years from now you won't be fresh in the minds of your undergrad professors anymore. Keep in touch with them if you can.
Also look at whether your workplace will pay for graduate-level classes at universities in the area. That'll give you fresher recommendations, and you can go to office hours to ask the profs' advice about your plans, plus make use of whatever student advising services the school has. No need to be coy about it: "I just graduated and I'm working at SoftwareCo, but I'm considering applying to PhD programs in a couple of years; my interests are in topics x, y, and z. I've read that schools a, b, and c have some of the best departments for those things. What can I do between now and then to ensure that I have a strong application to good programs?"
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 9:26 PM on May 1, 2017 [1 favorite]