Japanese steakhouse broth soup recipe please?
March 27, 2017 9:59 AM Subscribe
Have you ever worked in a Japanese steakhouse? Ready to spill your secrets?
For years, I have been trying to recreate the simple clear broth soup that they serve you in Japanese steakhouses before your meal. I crave this soup when I am not feeling well, which is obviously inconvenient as going to an elaborate dinner/show isn't exactly what I'm in the mood for when I'm sick.
The broth is probably a mix of chicken/beef broth with onions & mushrooms and probably a few other vegetables and spices for flavor. I have tried all the recipes I've found online, as well as just trying to recreate it from memory but it never tastes quite right. I wish I could be more specific, but it just never tastes as good as it does in the restaurant.
I know the answer to this is usually "Restaurants just use a ton of butter!" But I feel like that's probably not the case in this circumstance.
I've even bought one of those plastic spoons, thinking maybe that would make a difference.
SO, if you've ever worked in a Japanese steakhouse & know the exact recipe that you guys used I would be THRILLED.
For years, I have been trying to recreate the simple clear broth soup that they serve you in Japanese steakhouses before your meal. I crave this soup when I am not feeling well, which is obviously inconvenient as going to an elaborate dinner/show isn't exactly what I'm in the mood for when I'm sick.
The broth is probably a mix of chicken/beef broth with onions & mushrooms and probably a few other vegetables and spices for flavor. I have tried all the recipes I've found online, as well as just trying to recreate it from memory but it never tastes quite right. I wish I could be more specific, but it just never tastes as good as it does in the restaurant.
I know the answer to this is usually "Restaurants just use a ton of butter!" But I feel like that's probably not the case in this circumstance.
I've even bought one of those plastic spoons, thinking maybe that would make a difference.
SO, if you've ever worked in a Japanese steakhouse & know the exact recipe that you guys used I would be THRILLED.
I have not, but my first thought was maybe you're missing some aji shio.
If what you've made before is pretty close, try adding a little msg.
posted by danny the boy at 10:11 AM on March 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
If what you've made before is pretty close, try adding a little msg.
posted by danny the boy at 10:11 AM on March 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Are you sure it's not pork broth instead? I've only ever had miso soup or pork broth at Japanese places (in the US, no idea if that is authentic).
Side note: get a pressure cooker + very gelatinous parts to make the best broth. Start with cold water.
posted by Neekee at 10:12 AM on March 27, 2017
Side note: get a pressure cooker + very gelatinous parts to make the best broth. Start with cold water.
posted by Neekee at 10:12 AM on March 27, 2017
My first thought was miso soup too, but that's typically cloudy. Are you referring to a straight dashi?
You say you've found recipes that are close, but not quite there. Would you mind posting them to give us a better idea on how they might not quite be hitting the mark?
Danny The Boy's suggestion of MSG is typically a really good starting point for japanese food that doesn't quite taste 'there.'
posted by furnace.heart at 10:29 AM on March 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
You say you've found recipes that are close, but not quite there. Would you mind posting them to give us a better idea on how they might not quite be hitting the mark?
Danny The Boy's suggestion of MSG is typically a really good starting point for japanese food that doesn't quite taste 'there.'
posted by furnace.heart at 10:29 AM on March 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's interesting that all the copycat recipes are based on bog-standard broth or bouillon - and I would be unsurprised if that's true, because it's kind of a mass-produced loss-leader so it'd be made from whatever Sysco delivers. But then also copycat recipes often claim to have come from an insider and are actually best guesses with sometimes unimaginative ingredients.
What kind of broth are you using? Lots of the copycats are using canned chicken or bouillon cubes, but on digging around I see some that use a mix of chicken and beef broth which would make the color truer to the version I see in restaurants. There's also the off chance there's an addition of Maggi seasoning or Kitchen Bouquet. Or soy sauce, obviously.
As an experiment (one I might do myself now that I'm curious), the source recipe appears to be Matsutake Suimono. The base is far more Japanese than the copycats use - dashi (kombu and katsuobushi) plus soy sauce, mirin, and sake. I wonder if the soup you specifically are familiar with uses one or more of those, and that's the flavor you are missing. I can obtain all of that at my grocery stores (kombu and katsuobushi are harder, but most of my stores have instant dashi powder in the Asian section) and also Amazon, so it's possible for you to try your hand at it.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:29 AM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
What kind of broth are you using? Lots of the copycats are using canned chicken or bouillon cubes, but on digging around I see some that use a mix of chicken and beef broth which would make the color truer to the version I see in restaurants. There's also the off chance there's an addition of Maggi seasoning or Kitchen Bouquet. Or soy sauce, obviously.
As an experiment (one I might do myself now that I'm curious), the source recipe appears to be Matsutake Suimono. The base is far more Japanese than the copycats use - dashi (kombu and katsuobushi) plus soy sauce, mirin, and sake. I wonder if the soup you specifically are familiar with uses one or more of those, and that's the flavor you are missing. I can obtain all of that at my grocery stores (kombu and katsuobushi are harder, but most of my stores have instant dashi powder in the Asian section) and also Amazon, so it's possible for you to try your hand at it.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:29 AM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: It's absolutely not miso soup, it it close to the "clear soup" that soren_lorensen linked to, but I have tried that exact recipe and it isn't exactly the same. I usually use a mix of chicken and beef broth to start with.
If you've ever worked in a Japanese steakhouse (in the US, at least) , you'll know exactly what I am talking about.
posted by thebrokenmuse at 10:58 AM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
If you've ever worked in a Japanese steakhouse (in the US, at least) , you'll know exactly what I am talking about.
posted by thebrokenmuse at 10:58 AM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Over the weekend I decided to go to a Japanese steakhouse in a few weeks for a celebration. I will find out exactly what this is and how it is made (like if they use something pre-mixed, and if so which one.) I'll ask a few friends that are sure to know exactly what you mean, too.
I'll be in touch by mid-April! I love adding this "secret mission" to the event! No worries!!
posted by jbenben at 11:08 AM on March 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'll be in touch by mid-April! I love adding this "secret mission" to the event! No worries!!
posted by jbenben at 11:08 AM on March 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Seconding Lyn Never. If the steakhouse is trying at all to be authentic, you're not going to be able to replace it without using a dashi (that food.com recipe doesn't seem to use one). Maybe follow this recipe: Clear onion soup but get a hold of some kombu + bonito flakes and use a dashi instead of a chicken broth/beef broth base. Western broths are going to have aromatics that you don't find in Japanese cuisine, like thyme and celery, and it's never going to taste the same if you use them.
posted by dis_integration at 11:10 AM on March 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 11:10 AM on March 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
BTW, I sorta doubt it's something pre-mixed because we don't expect thst from upscale restaurants, but not too long ago I discovered this miso soup I really liked at a nearby restaurant came entirely from a box (haha!) so yeah, there could be an msg component even if it's mostly from scratch? Anyway, I'll look into this and get back to you.
posted by jbenben at 11:12 AM on March 27, 2017
posted by jbenben at 11:12 AM on March 27, 2017
not only have I not worked in a hibachi-type place but ive never even eaten at a benni-hana or their ilk. but I do make (and drink) a lot of broth and stock. (side note, thank you for inspiring my never-future financial district lunch time soup business: Stocks & Broths).
Lyn Never is working what seems like, to me, a very good angle. Even non-fancy restaurants are going to put your home soup making game to shame if they are going through enough animals to have a proper supply of bones an parts mostly suitable for soup making. Even if your add ins are perfectly on target, if you start with weak canned/cartooned broth it wont stack up. I would think dashi/fish elements would be pretty easily detected and are not what you are missing, though some kombu could be just the thing.
if you are serious about making soups (and not just this one soup) I cannot endorse getting a pressure cooker enough. Yesterday I made 3 quarts of delicious mixed-meat stock which I will use all week (and enjoy straight because im a little off like that).
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 11:17 AM on March 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Lyn Never is working what seems like, to me, a very good angle. Even non-fancy restaurants are going to put your home soup making game to shame if they are going through enough animals to have a proper supply of bones an parts mostly suitable for soup making. Even if your add ins are perfectly on target, if you start with weak canned/cartooned broth it wont stack up. I would think dashi/fish elements would be pretty easily detected and are not what you are missing, though some kombu could be just the thing.
if you are serious about making soups (and not just this one soup) I cannot endorse getting a pressure cooker enough. Yesterday I made 3 quarts of delicious mixed-meat stock which I will use all week (and enjoy straight because im a little off like that).
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 11:17 AM on March 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's been ages since I've been to a Japanese steakhouse, and I don't remember the taste of that broth well. But I have been looking at pork broth and stock recipes for some time, and wondering why they appear so rarely. When I was younger, I often made pork or ham stocks for using in soups and sauces, and they have a lovely sweet and rich taste you often find in Asian cooking.
Here's a recipe that might bring you closer to your ideal: Toridashi (Pork and chicken stock)
posted by mumimor at 11:52 AM on March 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Here's a recipe that might bring you closer to your ideal: Toridashi (Pork and chicken stock)
posted by mumimor at 11:52 AM on March 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
So all the folks recommending making your own dashi... MSG was invented in Japan in 1908 in an attempt to isolate the flavor that kombu gives to dashi. The flavor base that people identify with Japanese food *is* MSG. MSG is what you are making when you boil up a bunch of seaweed, or let fish ferment, or dry mushrooms, or age cheese, etc.
So you can soak your kombu overnight or you can use dashi mix or just sprinkle some msg into your soup but my personal belief is that the only difference you're going to taste between the three is going to come from your own feelings about authenticity rather than what's actually in the bowl.
A couple of good articles to read if you're interested in the history of MSG:
The Notorious MSG’s Unlikely Formula For Success
A Short History of MSG - Good Science, Bad Science, and Taste Cultures
posted by danny the boy at 3:57 PM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
So you can soak your kombu overnight or you can use dashi mix or just sprinkle some msg into your soup but my personal belief is that the only difference you're going to taste between the three is going to come from your own feelings about authenticity rather than what's actually in the bowl.
A couple of good articles to read if you're interested in the history of MSG:
The Notorious MSG’s Unlikely Formula For Success
A Short History of MSG - Good Science, Bad Science, and Taste Cultures
posted by danny the boy at 3:57 PM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Most places take a big pot in the morning and fill it with chicken bones (having saved the meat from the chicken to prepare on the grill), sliced onions, chopped celery and carrots. It's filled with water, and left to boil/simmer until closing time.
The broth is cooled overnight, and in the morning, it's put through a sieve to get rid of everything but the actual broth. When it's ready to be used, it's seasoned with bouillon cubes, powder, or paste, depending on the restaurant. I've seen SYSCO's beef flavoring used, but also Knorr's chicken and beef. Add salt.
On the side, onions are thinly sliced, covered in a flour/water mixture, and fried quickly. Placed on paper/napkins to get rid of excess oil, it's cooled down to use later.
When it's time to serve the soup, the onion is placed in the bottom of the bowl, along with paper thin sliced regular mushrooms, with the soup poured on top, and then it's topped with thinly sliced scallions.
posted by lifeaskew at 4:47 PM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
The broth is cooled overnight, and in the morning, it's put through a sieve to get rid of everything but the actual broth. When it's ready to be used, it's seasoned with bouillon cubes, powder, or paste, depending on the restaurant. I've seen SYSCO's beef flavoring used, but also Knorr's chicken and beef. Add salt.
On the side, onions are thinly sliced, covered in a flour/water mixture, and fried quickly. Placed on paper/napkins to get rid of excess oil, it's cooled down to use later.
When it's time to serve the soup, the onion is placed in the bottom of the bowl, along with paper thin sliced regular mushrooms, with the soup poured on top, and then it's topped with thinly sliced scallions.
posted by lifeaskew at 4:47 PM on March 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
danny the boy is correct about kombu/MSG.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 11:44 PM on March 27, 2017
posted by Joseph Gurl at 11:44 PM on March 27, 2017
my personal belief is that the only difference you're going to taste between the three is going to come from your own feelings about authenticity rather than what's actually in the bowl.
Good for you!
But it does read like those people who claim that because they can't taste the difference between a 10 dollar boxed wine and a 15 year old Bordeaux, no one can.
I can easily taste the difference between broths made with naturally fermented ingredients and pure chemical MSG, and I guess the obvious reason is that there are more different flavor elements in the kombu or whatever, that combine with the salts into something more layered in taste.
It could easily be that what OP is missing is MSG, and it's worth testing, but there are tons of other options.
posted by mumimor at 3:28 AM on March 28, 2017
Good for you!
But it does read like those people who claim that because they can't taste the difference between a 10 dollar boxed wine and a 15 year old Bordeaux, no one can.
I can easily taste the difference between broths made with naturally fermented ingredients and pure chemical MSG, and I guess the obvious reason is that there are more different flavor elements in the kombu or whatever, that combine with the salts into something more layered in taste.
It could easily be that what OP is missing is MSG, and it's worth testing, but there are tons of other options.
posted by mumimor at 3:28 AM on March 28, 2017
I used to work in a Japanese steakhouse, and I can tell you exactly how we made that broth. First you need 2 cases of chicken (about 50). Then you de-bone them all, leaving as little meat on the carcass as possible. Throw all the bones in a big pot and fill with water. Boil for about four or five hours, then run through a strainer. Put the broth into several five gallon buckets so that it cools off quicker, but before it cools off stir in 2 handfulls of Aji no moto and one handfull of chicken base. Pour one bucket directly into the soup warmer, and put the rest in the walk-in cooler. The little bowls containing the noodles and very thinly sliced vegetables were prepared ahead of time, and the hot broth in the warmer is all that is needed to pour over the top to heat to serving temp. edit ( I should have read the entire thread; lifeaskew said it first)
posted by ambulocetus at 9:33 PM on April 6, 2017
posted by ambulocetus at 9:33 PM on April 6, 2017
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