The classic where should I live question.
August 20, 2016 7:32 AM   Subscribe

What cities should I be considering for my job search/living in as an LGB tech geek considering my other criteria inside?

Currently mid twenties, male, and live in the Midwest/Great Lakes region US.

Criteria from generally most important to least:
Walkability - I've always been "severely envious" of Euro style cafe culture/walkable squares. I would love a city where I could just walk around and enjoy an evening.
Culture - Museums (love natural history, art museums, science centers, art galleries, free museums are great), libraries (I previously lived in a city that's library had a maker space, would love something like that again!)
Climate - Would prefer warm/sunny, but have learned to suffer through lake effect snow, so if other criteria match up, I'm willing to suffer through winters again.
Liberality - I'm gay (male) and need a city that's LGBT friendly with enough density of gay or bi men to be able to find dates. I'd consider medium/smaller cities if this held true for them.
Location - Most of my friends from college live east of the Mississippi, I'm currently only eligible to work in the US, but would consider foreign cities if I thought I could get a visa.
Jobs - I work in tech/software development if that helps narrow things down based on job availability.
Proximity - Would prefer a city with other cities nearby to visit. (i.e. Denver would be too "isolated" just from having visited, something more like Philly-DC-NYC proximity or NC-Raleigh-Chapel Hill proximity would be preferable)
Internet - I'd need reliable internet; Google Fiber would be a dream come true.
Housing - I prefer smaller style bungalows, condos, and apartments; I'm not into sprawling McMansions and subdivisions.
Density - NYC is too dense in my experience and makes me a bit nervous/claustrophobic.

What places should I consider moving too?


Secondary conundrum:
I only have 5 city slots on my hired.com profile to pull matches from, all the other recruiting sites I'm using either allow unlimited cities or only serve one or two cities total.

I think these are my top four cities for my profile: Chicago, DC, Boston, and San Francisco Bay Area
I have these remaining (need to pick one) from the cities hired.com serves: New York, San Diego, Austin, Los Angeles, Denver
Which city should I put as my 5th place to search? Should I change some of the ones I've already picked?
posted by Chicoreus to Grab Bag (25 answers total) 1 user marked this as a favorite
 
I would not live in DC or Boston. San Diego is fun but so bro-y, you would be isolated to one area as a gay man.

Los Angeles and Austin should be on your list.

Source: from NYC, lived in SD and LA. Have visited all the rest.

Some people might add Portland or Seattle to your list. I find Portland depressing, Seattle might be OK. YMMV, of course. I've only ever lived in LGBT-type neighborhood's as an adult, so I think I share your criteria on many levels. These are my best recommendations.
posted by jbenben at 7:48 AM on August 20, 2016


Pittsburgh.
posted by jon1270 at 7:48 AM on August 20, 2016 [3 favorites]


Long Beach, CA has a significant LGBT population and you could work in either LA or Orange County (though the commute is worse going that direction). 2nd Street is very walkable and fun.
posted by cecic at 8:11 AM on August 20, 2016 [4 favorites]


Philly hits many of your criteria, if you can handle northeast winters (though they are milder than Boston), and if it isn't too dense for you. Admittedly, there are definite pockets of homophobia, but that is the case in most big cities (and, again, I think it would be no worse than Boston). It is a large city that can feel smaller, and is not as expensive as NY/SF/Chicago.

I'd also consider LA. You need a car generally, but in certain neighborhoods on the east side, you can go without one for a day/evening.

I live in and love New York but if you know you don't want to live here, don't add it to your list. There are plenty of other great cities in the US (and all but San Francisco are more reasonably priced).
posted by Caz721 at 8:11 AM on August 20, 2016 [3 favorites]


What about Columbus?
posted by kevinbelt at 8:25 AM on August 20, 2016


Boston and Seattle meet all your criteria except for winter weather.
posted by lunasol at 8:29 AM on August 20, 2016


Seattle is apparently not an option, but it really, really should be. If I were you, I'd put it at the top of my list. LA should go on your list, but you'd struggle with the sprawl.
posted by pazazygeek at 8:29 AM on August 20, 2016 [1 favorite]


New Orleans?
posted by flourpot at 8:39 AM on August 20, 2016


Just to ask: you didn't mention affordability. Is this because you're already rich enough that it doesn't matter; ie you are already a millionaire? Or are you just willing to spend most of your income on rent, and/or viewing this as the sort of short-ish term adventure where being kinda broke all the time is okay for two or three years?

I ask because DC, Boston, and the Bay area are all eye-wateringly expensive. Especially if you've gotten used to the quality of life that any given income level provides up here in the rust belt.

Anyway, there are lots of cities you haven't mentioned where there are at least walkable areas you could live in, and which probably-I'm-not-gay-I-dunno-but-you-can-check are gay-friendly and gay-date-able *enough,* and are so much more affordable that it isn't funny. But in most any of them you'd be living in a walkable island in a more sprawling area, and living in a gay-friendly island in a much less friendly region. Dallas comes immediately to mind. Charlotte, Nashville, Atlanta. Pittsburgh if you don't mind only marginally better winters. Houston or Tampa if you really want heat and humidity. Miami or New Orleans if you want heat and humidity and don't mind getting flooded out of town in your lifetime.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:43 AM on August 20, 2016 [4 favorites]


If Canada is an option, Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver have many of the things you seek. Toronto and Montreal have gorgeous hot summers and rather brutal winters; Vancouver is kind of misty year round.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 8:51 AM on August 20, 2016


Minneapolis/St. Paul

We have everything you listed, though weak spots would obviously be "climate" (no lake effect snow, but still snow, and Arctic effect cold--on the positive side, we have a great system for managing it) and "walkability" depending on where you lived.

Housing: Both downtown Minneapolis and downtown St. Paul have a lot going for them in the apartment/condo selection, and also have the best options for public transportation (the light rail connects both downtowns). The trendy areas right now are the North Loop in Mpls, which would definitely fulfill all your criteria for almost everything you listed, and downtown St. Paul is actually really coming up. St. Paul is quieter, it's pretty much like "all the benefits of condo living downtown, but without the noise" so it really depends on what you prefer: to be in the middle of the action, or to have the convenience of city living but still want to be able to get away from the bustle.

Tons of culture--3 art major museums, the Science museum, a ton of theater and music, and a thriving art scene. Tons of great restaurants because the foodie revolution has really exploded here. Same with the craft beer scene, if you're into that. You might also appreciate the plethora of outdoor activities, the yearly festivals and events (the Winter Carnival, the Aquatennial, the Basilica Block Party and Juneteenth, the Renaissance Festival, just to name a few, and of course the Minnesota State Fair, the most awesome state fair in the country), and the fact that we have a ton of farmers markets, CSAs, and in general a strong farming community that provides a lot of local food production. We have several prominent co-ops (who are all talking about merging into one big one) and a lot of grocery selection. This is not a food desert or a place where the idea of "gourmet" means more than one kind of shredded nacho cheese, or where the Olive Garden is haute cuisine (though of course, you *may* go there if you just have a craving for unlimited breadsticks).

Liberal: like any state, it tends to be most liberal in the urban and suburban areas, but with Gov. Dayton at the helm, we have had a last several years of the "liberal experiment" producing excellent economic progress, as you may have heard from all the "Minnesota is the #1 state" lists that have come out in the last few years.

Tech jobs: The Twin Cities is a major tech hub. Both Target and Best Buy are headquartered here, Amazon is bringing a software development satellite here, United Healthcare, Mayo and Medtronic offer a shitload of tech opportunities in the healthcare industry, and there are also several major ad agencies and start-ups. The job market is healthy and the pay is competitive in relation to the cost of living.

Internet: Fiber has yet to take hold here in any serious way but you would have no problem getting extremely decent Internet speeds. Be advised, the major carriers are Comcast and Centurylink, Charter...the usual players.

LGBT culture: very LGBT friendly. (Well...I'm not LGBT so I can't really be an authority on that.) But we have a major Pride celebration every year, gay marriage was legalized with great enthusiasm in 2012, gay bars with thriving attendance (ranging from the "kinda taken over by straight people" Gay 90s with events and drag shows, to the chic Jetset, the Eagle, the Saloon, etc) so at any rate, you would definitely not have any problem meeting other gay people here.

Proximity to other cities: Well, we have two right here! But you're also about 5 hours from Chicago. Being in the middle of the country, you're pretty equidistant from both coasts but we are a major airport hub--you wouldn't have to take a puddle jumper to a real airport to go anywhere.

Population density: the state has 5 million people in it, about half of whom live in the Twin Cities. We have enough people for traffic to be a pain during rush hour, not enough for traffic to be a pain 24/7, let's put it that way.

Minnesota is also a geographically beautiful state with a lot of natural preservation, regional and national parks, obviously a lot of lakes, and city and state laws dedicated to preserving same.
posted by Autumnheart at 9:25 AM on August 20, 2016 [7 favorites]


Bay Area; Berkeley if you really want to live in a bungalow. But OMG is it expensive! Also hits all of your criteria except being close to college pals.
posted by bookworm4125 at 9:28 AM on August 20, 2016


I wouldn't recommend Austin for you. Yeah, lots of tech jobs, but outside of downtown it's pretty much a sprawly mess like most places in America. And you live in Texas, where the closest big cities are... Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio.

I like Seattle for you. It's densifying at a nice clip, but nowhere near close to New York. Lots of tech jobs. Cost of living is more than the Great Lakes region, but still relatively affordable. Public transit is iffy but getting better. And you're close to Portland, which is a nice place to visit and a boring place to live, and Vancouver, which I've never been to, but I hear is great but expensive. And you're a short flight away from San Francisco and Los Angeles. Plus, lots of gay men, and Capitol Hill, while not the same as yesteryear, still has a nice concentration of gay people.

Downsides to Seattle: well, the weather. It actually doesn't rain that much, but it's constantly... damp for 6-8 months of the year. Plus, you will not see the sun, literally, for weeks. I am not exaggerating. I currently live in Portland, which has better weather than Seattle, and last December it rained and was completely cloudly, for 3 weeks straight. And it's generally about 10 degrees cooler in Seattle than Portland--today it's forecast to be 100 in Portland and 91 in Seattle (which doesn't happen often.) That sounds okay, but then you realize that for most of the summer it's 70 degrees in Portland and 60 degrees in Seattle.

I know I wrote a lot about the weather, but it's really important to know what you're getting into. I'm currently in the process of leaving Portland to go back to New York, partly because I can't hack the winters here.

Now, Portland could be good too, but it doesn't have a ton of the cultural stuff that you list. Seattle is just... bigger and more impressive in that regard. Like, the Art Museum in Portland is small but curated well, but that's it. There aren't any major research universities in Portland. That kind of stuff. But they're so close together that if you do end up in Seattle or Portland, it's easy to regularly take trips to one or the other.
posted by Automocar at 9:50 AM on August 20, 2016 [1 favorite]


New Orleans ticks off basically all of your boxes. Liberal, walkable, warm, LGBT friendly, and culture coming out of our ears. I can't speak specifically to the tech job market, but it seems like half of my friends are in that line of work. The nearest big city (Houston) is 6 hours away, but you can get to Florida beaches in half that, which is a nice bonus.
posted by tryniti at 9:51 AM on August 20, 2016


Seattle, absolutely. The winters here are incredibly mild (yes, cloudy a lot of the time but it rarely goes below 50 during the day and the precipitation is far less than anything I experienced on the east coast). The tech scene is insanely busy- we have Facebook, Google, Amazon, Microsoft, in addition to a ton of startups. Capitol Hill is the classic gayborhood but honestly there are gay folks in every neighborhood here. Cost of living is high if you want walkability but I promise you can afford it on a tech salary. Easy access to hiking in the summer, skiing in the winter, and lots of other great cities to visit. Add Seattle to your list!
posted by joan_holloway at 10:05 AM on August 20, 2016 [1 favorite]


Atlanta would be perfect for you - and if your work commute ends up allowing it live actually just outside it in Decatur for a great square and cafe culture.
posted by hazyjane at 10:18 AM on August 20, 2016


I live in Boston (well, Somerville) and I think it would be great for you except for the climate. Walkability really is great in the city and inner-ring suburbs. Loads of culture. Pretty liberal in most respects. But winters can really suck.
posted by mskyle at 11:23 AM on August 20, 2016 [1 favorite]


Philly should definitely be on your list, probably above Boston. It and Boston are in my opinion among the most "European" cities in America, and Philadelphia is much much cheaper, easier to get around, and (again my opinion) fun than Boston.

There is a whole LGBT-centric neighborhood with rainbows on the street signs. There are many liberal young professionals / grad students.

Tons of cafes and restaurants, beautiful parks and brownstones. You can actually afford to live in nice neighborhoods inside the city without being a banker or lawyer. I loooooved walking and biking around center city and University city when I lived there at dusk on summer evenings.

Amazing art and natural history museums.

Great universities with libraries and amenities relating to that.

Makerspace scene.

Easy bus/train/car ride to NYC or DC, but it is much less crazy and claustrophobic than those cities. It's near enough that if there's a show or event you want to go to in NYC it's not a big deal to go for the weekend or even a day.

The only criteria it doesn't spot on hit is weather, but it is generally more mild than Boston or Chicago.

I live in a small Sunbelt city right now, which is great in its own way, but the last couple days I was thinking how much I miss Philly! It was so fun to live there, and I think we're into a lot of the same things re: culture and walkability.
posted by permiechickie at 12:39 PM on August 20, 2016


I agree that Atlanta would probably suit your needs. Decatur maybe, but more Midtown/Virginia Highland/Poncey Highlands.

You mentioned the NC Triangle in your question--Raleigh, Durham, and Chapel Hill all have some of the elements you've named. I would highlight Durham for meeting the most criteria, especially tech jobs, and also for the most interesting walking around culture--Chapel Hill is very collegey and I've always found Raleigh kind of sterile.

Both the Triangle and Atlanta are getting Google Fiber.
posted by hydropsyche at 2:17 PM on August 20, 2016 [1 favorite]


If you want a place in Berkeley let me know.
posted by parmanparman at 4:48 PM on August 20, 2016


New Orleans has a great gay scene and a small but growing tech community. I would sortof disagree about the liberalness (I mean you're in Louisiana), but there are a lot of progressive pockets. You do need a car for day-to-day stuff, but there are some very walkable areas. And tons and tons of culture.
posted by radioamy at 5:05 PM on August 20, 2016


Been living in Austin for a few years, so I can provide some perspective on it.

Austin has truly terrible public transportation even by American standards and isn't at all walkable outside of downtown. Texas is gigantic and it requires hours of driving to get to any other major city *in* Texas, let alone to one in another state.

It has a handful of museums, but they're pretty much all very small. Nothing that compares to, say, the Smithsonian. What Austin does have is a lot of big events and festivals- off the top of my head, SXSW (tech/music), ACL (music), Texas Book Festival, Fantastic Fest (genre film, indie games). The University of Texas does attract a lot of famous speakers and has a small collection of on-campus museums open to the public .

Currently undergoing a tech boom; has Google Fiber. Gay life: wouldn't know, but Austin is known for being super-liberal. The impression I've gotten from my LGBT friends is that it's not at the same level as, say, New York, however. You are still in Texas. Climate: nice most of the time, Ninth Circle of Hell during the summer. You will likely never see a snowflake again.

Basically it sounds right up your alley on a few counts, but with some major flaws on others. Hope this helps.
posted by perplexion at 5:27 PM on August 20, 2016


I'm hesitant to say this, because I'm leaving (for reasons that have nothing to do with any of this) but... Baltimore.

Cheaper and better weather than Boston or NYC or even DC. Museums, culture, etc are plentiful. Great gayborhood in Mt. Vernon. Liberal (almost to a fault). Close to other cities. Walkable in many areas, but you are limited somewhat to your specific neighborhood unless you buy a bike. Decent tech scene. Growing maker scene.

Feel free to PM me for specifics, but yeah... Baltimore.
posted by youcancallmeal at 5:35 PM on August 20, 2016


I love the Bay Area, but very, very little of it is actually walkable in the way you want. San Francisco is certainly walkable, along with a good part of Berkeley, some parts of Oakland, and a few little "island" communities like Walnut Creek, San Mateo, Redwood City and Palo Alto have small, walkable downtowns. The Bay Area is mostly otherwise sprawl. It does pretty much fit your other criteria, though it's also tremendously unaffordable.

If you can live with the gray and rain, I'd either add Portland or Seattle (or both) to the list.
posted by cnc at 9:56 PM on August 20, 2016


Seattle has become very, very expensive. And is only getting worse.
posted by karizma at 1:07 PM on August 21, 2016


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