Where should I consider moving?

August 9, 2013 7:51 AM

I've been living in Brooklyn for 5 years now, and feeling the associated pains of longterm city life. Some stuff has gone on in my professional life recently that has got me wondering if I would enjoy living somewhere else. And being in my late twenties with all of my peers getting married and having kids, life change is all around me and I feel like I'm standing still. Can you guys help me brainstorm about where I might want to live?

So my question is, where else might I be happy? I love my neighborhood (Ft Greene/Clinton Hill) and its diversity, walkability, food, and my neighbors, but I'm wondering if I shouldn't consider trying somewhere else. This is not for an immediate relocation, but more about where I should start researching and visiting in case I do decide my time here is up.

About me
- I work in the tech industry in a creative role. Anywhere I go would ideally support this career as I've got hella student loans to pay.
- I have spent the vast majority of my life on the East Coast and I've definitely got the metro-area "no bullshit" sensibility.
- I like bars, mellow evenings, cats, making floral arrangements, taking casual classes, cooking, board games, non-hardcore yoga
- I'm tired of feeling like I need to constantly "CRUSH IT!" at work in order to get by and I'm starting to feel like I can do my job anywhere now that I've got an established career.
- As I'm here, I'm spending less time going out to shows and all the New Yorky cultural stuff, and more time wanting to entertain in my home and hang out at the beach.
- I hate the suburbs and driving, but I wouldn't mind having a pool, you know?
- I'm half of a long term straight couple with definitely no plans for kids or any of that stuff.

Locations
- Before anyone recommends it, I've visited San Francisco and didn't feel the magic some people seem to get from it. I found the streets weirdly lonely and the dreary summer didn't do it for me. I also am not really interested in getting into the Silicon Valley culture.
- I lived in Pittsburgh for 4 years and while I wouldn't mind moving back in the distant, distant future, I didn't love needing a car, or the relentless winters.
- Places that I've been and enjoyed: Hamburg (Germany. One of my favorite cities ever. Loved the vibe, waterfrontiness, dive bars, functional public transit), Toronto (small and comfortable but fun), New Orleans (hate the touristy junk but enjoyed the scenery, food culture, and pace), Boston (feels a little culturally monotone though)
- Places I'm not into: LA (Great weather but bizarre fake-nice culture, crappy driving), Chicago (I've only been really done downtown on business so maybe my interpretation is off, but I wasn't into the midwestern cheesy steakhouse vibe), Vancouver (ZZZZ), Zurich (freakishly tidy), Miami (tacky), Austin (major MEH)

So! Where should I start looking?

posted by thirdletter to Society & Culture (25 answers total)

You probably want Philadelphia. It has the things you like about New York and not the things you don't.
posted by millipede at 7:56 AM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]

If all you've seen in Chicago is downtown, then you don't know Chicago.
posted by FirstMateKate at 8:03 AM on August 9, 2013 [10 favorites]

I also think you should check out Philly, but with some reservations: most of the young people I know who live there have pretty intensely mixed feelings about the city, all of them live in the suburbs, and all of them have cars. Downtown Philly is great and getting much more livable, but the options for practical things like grocery stores aren't always great, and the race/class tensions are even more intensely dysfunctional than they are in Brooklyn. I've personally had okay luck with pubtrans there, but I've been told that the subway is kind of a joke and Septa is notoriously unreliable. The busses are apparently pretty okay, though.

If you decide to check out Boston more, definitely try spending some time in Jamaica Plain if you haven't been there already.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 8:05 AM on August 9, 2013

midwestern cheesy steakhouse vibe

This is the saddest way I've ever heard anyone describe Chicago. Seriously. I am like majorly depressed now.

I love-love-love Chicago, and after living here for 9.5 years I'm pretty confident that it's the only place I want to be. I don't necessarily think it's the best place for you (particularly if you're upset by relentless winters), but gosh, there is just so much available, and everything is pretty affordable, and since every neighborhood is a little different, it's pretty easy to find exactly the place you want, even if it's completely different from what another perfectly-happy-in-Chicago person wants. And god, the space!? SO MUCH SPACE. Plenty of huge apartments available if you want to entertain at home. And Chicago has a super relaxed vibe. No one cares if you're a superduper socialite or a homebody.

But it does get cold, and depending on where you live having a car would certainly make things easier (though not required), so maybe it's not for you.

I just really felt I needed to correct this cheesy steakhouse assumption. It's...wow...just so not like that at all here.
posted by phunniemee at 8:19 AM on August 9, 2013 [13 favorites]

Berlin is affordable and awesome. All the expats I know there are artists, so I don't know how difficult it would be to get a tech job if you don't speak German (do you speak German?). No place is perfect, but the time I've spent there reminds me of many of things I love about NYC without some of the stresses.
posted by three_red_balloons at 8:22 AM on August 9, 2013 [2 favorites]

Yeah that's sort of like if someone went to Times Square and decided that's what all of NYC was like.

What about somewhere on the West Coast besides LA or San Francisco?
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:23 AM on August 9, 2013

Response by poster: Ahhh! I am sorry for dissing Chicago. I know people who have lived there and loved it! I know there's more to it, I guess if you'd recommend Chicago I'd like to know what neighborhood I should check out on my next visit.
posted by thirdletter at 8:27 AM on August 9, 2013

Boulder
Hartford
Portland, ME
Portland, OR
Raleigh
San Diego
Santa Barbara
Seattle

Amsterdam
Barcelona
Berlin
Stockholm
Tallin
Warsaw
posted by nickrussell at 8:27 AM on August 9, 2013

Also, I would say Portland (Oregon), but since you don't like SF summers, I doubt you'd like the weather there (and I wouldn't blame you, as I don't either).

Since everyone's defending Chicago, I'll put in a plug for LA; I once lived there, in a very walkable neighborhood, biked or took the subway to work, and had a great circle of friends and acquaintances that were nothing like the stereotype you describe. I would happily live there again if I wasn't already happy where I am.
posted by three_red_balloons at 8:29 AM on August 9, 2013

If you go the Philly route suggested above, check out West Philly! My boyfriend lived just off Baltimore Ave, close to 2 trolley lines, and within easy walking distance are cafes, a lovely park where people take yoga and other classes and there's a farmers' market, and it is really pretty. I know a bunch of people who live there and love it (my boyfriend would still be there happily if I hadn't made him move to NY) and it's the only other place I've ever really felt at home as a native NYer.
posted by mlle valentine at 9:07 AM on August 9, 2013

If you really want to slow things down, San Diego might be worth checking out.

Pros include: mellow, friendly people (most of the CRUSH IT! people I've known who have move there reported becoming a lot less interested in crushing anything), access to gorgeous beaches and parks, year round sunshine without heat or humidity, and cute little walkable neighborhoods. Based on where you live in Brooklyn, I think you would feel most comfortable in North Park, Hillcrest, Mission Hills, or University Heights. There is a decent-sized tech scene that might offer jobs in your area of expertise. There are a lot of local universities and a good community college system, should you feel interested in taking classes. There are a lot of options for fitness, and the farmer's markets/Sprouts/Trader Joe's make it easy to eat well. If you like craft beer, microbreweries abound. Mexican food there is amazingly good, of course.

Cons include: Public transit is adequate, but not really helpful if you want to get to know the city. Or get anywhere in under an hour. Interesting neighborhoods and places to visit are separated from one another by long stretches of suburban blah, mesas, and valleys. Diversity exists, but is less accessible (you need to know where to drive to). There is an arts and music scene, but it is small and local in flavor.
posted by rhythm and booze at 9:09 AM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]

Seattle/Olympia is a cool place if you can stand the rain.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:33 AM on August 9, 2013

Another vote for Portland, ME, if you don't mind snow, but the long winters mean that everyone gets out and really, really gets the most out of summer. It's getting better and better as a food and culture city. Bustling, working, amazing waterfront (and the islands in Casco bay can be great places to live/work/visit). Affordable housing. You'd need a car if you get too far out of the downtown area, but it's pretty small so nothing is too long of a drive, and parking downtown isn't as crazy pricey as NY or Boston. Best of all it's in weekend visiting distance from where you are now!
posted by hungrybruno at 9:53 AM on August 9, 2013 [2 favorites]

For Chicago:

Since you've been more geared towards entertaining at home, and less about the night life, both Edgewater and Logan Square are great home-y neighborhoods with good access to public transportation, accessible grocery stores, and relatively cheap living costs with the option for spacious apartments. Edgewater is right on the lake (couldn't you tell?), and I know you mentioned that hanging out at the beach was also good for you. Also, Edgewater is close to Andersonville, which is a quaint neighborhood that holds one of my favorite coffee shops, and a really cool book store.

Wicker Park (parts of it) is a trendy-ish neighborhood, and is much cheaper than say, Boystown, though much more expensive than either Edgewater or Logan Square.
posted by FirstMateKate at 9:56 AM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]

I'm going to go out on a limb, and against everything that everyone believes, and recommend Memphis. Although we don't have much of a public transportation system (or really one at all, so a car is a definite need for work). I have lived here all my life, in all different parts of town, and while there are definitely some sketchy areas, that is not how it is in most places. We get a bad rep for a lot of things, but there is a lot more good than bad, which Forbes loves to overlook. Some great parts of town/neighborhoods, that have walkability and bike lanes in most areas. The neat places to live here are Midtown (and any of the sub-neighborhoods with in it, i.e. Cooper - Young, which I love, Central Gardens etc), South Main area (which has a lot of walkable places to go, lots of good restaurants/bars etc), and there are lots of super cute neighborhoods in East Memphis as well, although they aren't quite as walkable/bikeable as the other two. Anyway, its not for everyone but its a fantastic city with a lot of history (good and bad), we are always the underdogs, and always defending our love of our city.

P.S. Don't judge Memphis for Graceland. So much more than that, but also... Graceland is in one of the not so great areas of town :)
posted by Quincy at 10:37 AM on August 9, 2013

- Before anyone recommends it, I've visited San Francisco and didn't feel the magic some people seem to get from it. I found the streets weirdly lonely and the dreary summer didn't do it for me. I also am not really interested in getting into the Silicon Valley culture.

Downtown Oakland is full of all kinds of people, including tech people, but has no Silicon Valley culture. There's enough blue collar that Oakland has a bit more east coast no-nonsense than other Bay Area cities, but it is friendly and less achievement ("crushing it") oriented. Great bars and restaurants, casual fun classes, apartments and homes big enough to entertain in. If you want a house with a yard, the east side of Lake Merritt (Haddon Hill/ Cleveland Heights) is a great place to be. Proximity to downtown on foot, bike, or bus, mellow but active neighborhoods with all kinds of people living in them. The weather is better here than SF (though to be fair, it's been uncharacteristically overcast every morning lately). Lake Merritt is a lovely place to hang out.
posted by oneirodynia at 11:40 AM on August 9, 2013 [2 favorites]

Like millions before you, accept the fact you're going to move to New Jersey, Westchester, Connecticut or Long Island.

All of these places have homes, beaches, pools, a more relaxed atmosphere - while still giving you all the accessibility of NYC & Brooklyn and every friend and in road you've made thus far (and will continue even more so to make over the next 5 year).

Start exploring each of those areas now, so you'll be in the know when that future moment arrives.
posted by Kruger5 at 11:55 AM on August 9, 2013

When I was in the US, I lived in Vegas for a bit. And I am not dropping it as a recommendation because it doesn't meet your criteria at all. Despite that, I actually liked living there a LOT more than I thought I would. I was also in Phoenix, which I decidedly didn't like as much.

But I like big cities with things within reach and green naturey stuff nearby, and I was planning to move eventually. At the time, we extensively researched where we wanted to go instead-- and looked into a lot of places, based on similar criteria to what you mention. Portland, OR kept topping the list, followed by Seattle WA, then Spokane, then San Diego. Seattle would have been first, but I felt it was too big and too cold. Or maybe I just wasn't hipster enough.
posted by Dimes at 12:00 PM on August 9, 2013

Response by poster: Kruger5, I find that viewpoint depressing. I grew up in the Jersey suburbs and my parents' lives were decidedly not relaxed because of the high cost of living, commutes, and all of that garbage, and I am miserable anytime I go back... Hence my trying to think of some lower key cities to start exploring my options sooner than later.

Thanks to everyone thus far for the contributions, it's certainly giving me some places to focus on. My followup question for those still checking this out is whether the places mentioned above have a tech/design community where I can make a living.
posted by thirdletter at 12:36 PM on August 9, 2013

Ok, in that case, I recommend DC metro area (particularly, Virginia or Maryland/Silver Springs).

Lower key environment (given Southern Culture influence).

Access to beaches (esp very nice north Carolina ones)

Well respected Tech environment, access to such jobs.

Many areas are quite affordable, as long as you're not putting yourself in the political gulch where none of these benefits exist.
posted by Kruger5 at 1:44 PM on August 9, 2013

DC denizen here, making a brief case for my city. I've lived in the District itself (not Maryland or Virginia) for nine years. It's diverse, walkable, great food, good public transportation. It gets hot but it doesn't get that cold, or at least stay cold for long. All kinds of yoga. The 930 club is one of the best venues for live music. There's a beach less than an hour away. People aren't all hacks or wonks. My husband works on a startup. I work at a nonprofit.

Living here is not for everyone but it's my home and I'm not going anywhere anytime soon.
posted by kat518 at 8:14 PM on August 9, 2013

Seattle? I was going to recommend Austin but you said you didn't like it. Maybe worth reconsidering?

If you're up for an adventure, there might be some interesting opportunities in Detroit and New Orleans. Also wouldn't rule out DC. I hear surprisingly good things about Minneapolis and Omaha.

A city I always enjoy is Cleveland. Lots of the amenities/types you like, not so sure about the jobs. But it's a nice town.
posted by elizeh at 9:49 PM on August 9, 2013

If you're willing to look internationally, I think nickrussell's recommendation of Amsterdam is a good one, except for your comment about wanting a pool. I'm not sure if you mean that you literally want a pool, or if you mean that you generally want some of the perks of suburban life (non-apartment housing, spread-out buildings, easy parking, quiet nights). There are towns just outside the major Dutch cities that offer the latter, but I doubt you're going to find the former anywhere, unless you're very wealthy. The upsides of Dutch suburbs are that most of them have good public transportation, they are all bikeable, and the country is so small that you're never really far from a major city.

Other stuff:

- There is a stereotype that Dutch people value a "no bullshit" sensibility and dislike "fake kindness".
- Bars, classes, board games, yoga, mellow days at the beach... no problem finding any of that in the Netherlands.
- Dutch people tend to value their work/life balance. You can work crazy hard if you want to, but if you want to keep it 9-5 and use your vacation days, that is generally accepted as normal.
- Walkability, bikeability, and public transportation are all excellent.
posted by neushoorn at 2:24 AM on August 12, 2013

Probably the classic "New York-ish, but not so intense" cities are Philly, Boston and Chicago. However, they've all got their drawbacks: The part of Philly that has the amenities you are looking for is pretty small. Chicago's winters are assuredly relentless. Boston is a bit one-note, almost as cold as Chicago, and not much cheaper than NYC.

To throw another suggestion out there, a friend of mine from Brooklyn moved to Asheville, NC about a year ago and seems to be enjoying it. It's a good deal smaller than most of the cities you mention, but checks most of your boxes.
posted by breakin' the law at 7:51 AM on August 16, 2013

Another suggestion: Montreal. Laid-back, interesting, one of my favorite cities in North America.

I see that you said you liked Toronto, which kinda struck me as NYC crossed with Chicago but somehow less impressive than both...so I figured I'd throw another Canadian city out there. However, it is VERY cold. Like, Chicago or Pittsburgh winters would seem tame by comparison.
posted by breakin' the law at 7:57 AM on August 16, 2013