What don't I understand about Apple Airport?
March 30, 2016 12:29 PM Subscribe
So, a while back we got an Apple Airport to try to extend Wifi in our apartment. It doesn't really work and I think perhaps I've misunderstood something fundamental about the airport. Help.
At the Apple store, I asked the tech guy what we needed to extend the wifi in our apartment -- he suggested getting an airport. However, the thing has never really worked well. The airport is physically connected to the modem provided by the cable company, in the living room. We're trying to get the wifi extended to the den, which is down the hall and around a corner -- same floor. However, the signal isn't really making the trip, so the Apple TV in the den sometimes runs very slowly or has to halt playback of videos and movies altogether. What in the world am I missing here? Is the airport a piece of crap or am I trying to make it do something it can't do? It seems crazy to me that the signal from the airport is not able to travel, oh, I don't know, 20 feet down the hall? Please help me troubleshoot this ..
At the Apple store, I asked the tech guy what we needed to extend the wifi in our apartment -- he suggested getting an airport. However, the thing has never really worked well. The airport is physically connected to the modem provided by the cable company, in the living room. We're trying to get the wifi extended to the den, which is down the hall and around a corner -- same floor. However, the signal isn't really making the trip, so the Apple TV in the den sometimes runs very slowly or has to halt playback of videos and movies altogether. What in the world am I missing here? Is the airport a piece of crap or am I trying to make it do something it can't do? It seems crazy to me that the signal from the airport is not able to travel, oh, I don't know, 20 feet down the hall? Please help me troubleshoot this ..
Response by poster: I only have an Airport Express. I connected the express to the modem furnished by the internet provider. I didn't realize I also needed the Airpot Extreme..
posted by Gray Skies at 12:44 PM on March 30, 2016
posted by Gray Skies at 12:44 PM on March 30, 2016
Additionally, though, it is somewhat strange you aren't getting a decent signal. I can stream Netflix from the bedroom with my Airport in the living room, also about 20 feet away and around a corner. However, this may depend on the construction of your apartment.
Does the same issue with slowdown and playback happen in the living room?
posted by papayaninja at 12:45 PM on March 30, 2016
Does the same issue with slowdown and playback happen in the living room?
posted by papayaninja at 12:45 PM on March 30, 2016
Well, you don't necessarily. I somewhat misread your question. You can use the express to extend an existing wifi network, but at the distance you're talking about, it might not be necessary. If you do decide to try that route, though, you do not need an extreme... another express would do the trick. However, like I mentioned before, it seems unusual you're not getting signal that close to the router.
posted by papayaninja at 12:47 PM on March 30, 2016
posted by papayaninja at 12:47 PM on March 30, 2016
So you're not extending a network, you just have the one airport and that's creating the wifi network, right?
The first thing I'd do is move the airport to a few new positions in the same area it's in to see if you get better coverage. Sometimes just rotating it can help. Getting it higher up can help. You might also try moving the apple tv around as much as you can.
On review: You don't need two wifi routers unless you really do need to extend your network... that said, the Airport Express isn't the best for a main router. Its range is less than an extreme and people generally use them to stream music to speakers or extend the range of an existing network. Ideally you'd have an extreme and it would reach into the other room, no problem.
Can you take the Express back?
posted by Huck500 at 12:48 PM on March 30, 2016
The first thing I'd do is move the airport to a few new positions in the same area it's in to see if you get better coverage. Sometimes just rotating it can help. Getting it higher up can help. You might also try moving the apple tv around as much as you can.
On review: You don't need two wifi routers unless you really do need to extend your network... that said, the Airport Express isn't the best for a main router. Its range is less than an extreme and people generally use them to stream music to speakers or extend the range of an existing network. Ideally you'd have an extreme and it would reach into the other room, no problem.
Can you take the Express back?
posted by Huck500 at 12:48 PM on March 30, 2016
It sounds like something ain't set up right, unless the 20 feet you're referring to includes a lot of walls, chimneys or other obstructions. You say you want to "extend" the wifi, but do not mention any existing wifi access point. Did the AirPort replace something else that is no longer hooked up, or is the "modem" you mention an all-in-one modem/router/wifi access point?
Assuming you have a router/access point in the system that is already broadcasting wifi signal and acting as your firewall and DHCP server, here's how to get the AirPort functioning as an access point:
- Plug the AirPort into your network using one of its LAN ports (icon looks like a double-headed arrow, not a flower.)
- Open AirPort Utility. If you're on a Mac it's built in, if you have a Windows machine you can get it here.
- Connect to the AirPort and configure thusly:
Internet: Bridge Mode
Wireless: Create a Wireless Network (not "Extend.") Use EXACTLY the same name, passphrase and encryption key as your existing network. Choose channel 1, 6 or 11 (this should be DIFFERENT from the channel in use by your existing access point, and should also be different from any neighbor's access points that you can see from your house.)
posted by contraption at 12:49 PM on March 30, 2016
Assuming you have a router/access point in the system that is already broadcasting wifi signal and acting as your firewall and DHCP server, here's how to get the AirPort functioning as an access point:
- Plug the AirPort into your network using one of its LAN ports (icon looks like a double-headed arrow, not a flower.)
- Open AirPort Utility. If you're on a Mac it's built in, if you have a Windows machine you can get it here.
- Connect to the AirPort and configure thusly:
Internet: Bridge Mode
Wireless: Create a Wireless Network (not "Extend.") Use EXACTLY the same name, passphrase and encryption key as your existing network. Choose channel 1, 6 or 11 (this should be DIFFERENT from the channel in use by your existing access point, and should also be different from any neighbor's access points that you can see from your house.)
posted by contraption at 12:49 PM on March 30, 2016
Response by poster: I.. I guess I am not extending the wifi. Maybe that's what I fundamentally don't understand. The Airport express is simply connected to the cable modem, which is connected to the wall. We don't have any other main router. Based on what you all are saying so far, it sounds like I should buy an Airport Extreme. However.. I still don't understand what it would mean to turn the Airport Express into an access point. If I get the Extreme, why would I need the Express?
posted by Gray Skies at 1:33 PM on March 30, 2016
posted by Gray Skies at 1:33 PM on March 30, 2016
Does the cable modem provide its own WiFi signal? If so, the Apple device can be used to receive it (so to speak) some distance from the cable modem, and then rebroadcast the WiFi signal so that it goes further.
posted by BillMcMurdo at 1:40 PM on March 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by BillMcMurdo at 1:40 PM on March 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
I was about to ask, along the same lines as above, whether you had WiFi at all before you got the Express and if so what the source was.
posted by trig at 1:47 PM on March 30, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by trig at 1:47 PM on March 30, 2016 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Before the Express, we had a regular router connected to the modem box. If I'm not mistaken, I think that while the modem box is wifi enabled, we decided not to activate it because we had our own router and the cable/internet provider charges extra for enabling WiFi on their box.
posted by Gray Skies at 2:27 PM on March 30, 2016
posted by Gray Skies at 2:27 PM on March 30, 2016
Best answer: Assuming that your main router has WiFi (and the signal was poor and that's why you went to the store asking about "extending" your WiFi), personally I would get a set of EoP adapters and place a secondary access point in the room in which you are having poor WiFi, connected to the main router via EoP. If you set up your secondary access point in Bridge or AP mode with exactly the same WiFi SSID & password as your main router then your devices should switch automatically based on whichever access point is supplying stronger signal.
Caveat: I do this with a Linksys WRT1900AC with a pair of D-Link EoP adapters, and it works perfectly, but I have never tried this with an Airport device. It is possible that the Airports do not support Bridge / AP mode. If you choose to try this, Google first to see if people are managing it with an Airport (although unfortunately it is often difficult to wade through the inconsistent terminology and general complaining to figure this out) -- if it seems like the Airport doesn't support this, then I would return it and get something which definitely supports Bridge / AP mode (like the WRT1900AC).
Before we invested in the Linksys, we tried a Netgear EX6100 WiFi "Range Extender" with the EoP adapters. It was a terrible, horrible, no-good piece of equipment. Instead of using the same SSID / network name as the main router, it set up a different network name, so you'd constantly have to switch between networks depending on your location in the house. I heartily anti-recommend anything labelling itself as a "range extender", in favour of a bridged access point like the WRT1900AC.
If you only have one fixed device in the room with poor signal (e.g., an Apple TV that never moves) and you don't care about, e.g., your smartphone having better WiFi in that room, you could do away with WiFi altogether and just use the EoP adapters to plug the Apple TV straight into the network.
posted by snap, crackle and pop at 2:29 PM on March 30, 2016 [2 favorites]
Caveat: I do this with a Linksys WRT1900AC with a pair of D-Link EoP adapters, and it works perfectly, but I have never tried this with an Airport device. It is possible that the Airports do not support Bridge / AP mode. If you choose to try this, Google first to see if people are managing it with an Airport (although unfortunately it is often difficult to wade through the inconsistent terminology and general complaining to figure this out) -- if it seems like the Airport doesn't support this, then I would return it and get something which definitely supports Bridge / AP mode (like the WRT1900AC).
Before we invested in the Linksys, we tried a Netgear EX6100 WiFi "Range Extender" with the EoP adapters. It was a terrible, horrible, no-good piece of equipment. Instead of using the same SSID / network name as the main router, it set up a different network name, so you'd constantly have to switch between networks depending on your location in the house. I heartily anti-recommend anything labelling itself as a "range extender", in favour of a bridged access point like the WRT1900AC.
If you only have one fixed device in the room with poor signal (e.g., an Apple TV that never moves) and you don't care about, e.g., your smartphone having better WiFi in that room, you could do away with WiFi altogether and just use the EoP adapters to plug the Apple TV straight into the network.
posted by snap, crackle and pop at 2:29 PM on March 30, 2016 [2 favorites]
Best answer: So as others have already pointed out, there's some confusing terminology in your question.
You can use an Airport Extreme / Express in various configurations, all managed through your Airport Utility (in /Applications/Utilities):
(1) Internet -> Cable Modem -> Airport Extreme : : : wireless : : : Devices on your WiFi network.
(2) Internet -> Cable Modem -> Airport Extreme : : : wireless : : : Airport Express -> cable to your non-WiFi-enabled device.
(3) Internet -> Cable Modem -> Airport Extreme : : : wireless : : : Airport Express : : : extended range to that hard-to-reach corner with a WiFi-enabled device.
Only the last one (3) counts as extending range. Everything else is just a straight WiFi network with clients.
The most common causes for poor WiFi connections are, in my experience,
(a) Old client devices on your network. A single old (e.g., 802.11b) device will bring the rest of the network down to its speed, unless you have a new split-network (e.g., 802.11ac) router.
(b) Interference from neighbors. Everyone is using the same WiFi channel, or you're in a crowded situation where all the channels have traffic.
(c) A lot of obstructions between your client device and the router.
Which of these might be your problem?
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:32 PM on March 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
You can use an Airport Extreme / Express in various configurations, all managed through your Airport Utility (in /Applications/Utilities):
(1) Internet -> Cable Modem -> Airport Extreme : : : wireless : : : Devices on your WiFi network.
(2) Internet -> Cable Modem -> Airport Extreme : : : wireless : : : Airport Express -> cable to your non-WiFi-enabled device.
(3) Internet -> Cable Modem -> Airport Extreme : : : wireless : : : Airport Express : : : extended range to that hard-to-reach corner with a WiFi-enabled device.
Only the last one (3) counts as extending range. Everything else is just a straight WiFi network with clients.
The most common causes for poor WiFi connections are, in my experience,
(a) Old client devices on your network. A single old (e.g., 802.11b) device will bring the rest of the network down to its speed, unless you have a new split-network (e.g., 802.11ac) router.
(b) Interference from neighbors. Everyone is using the same WiFi channel, or you're in a crowded situation where all the channels have traffic.
(c) A lot of obstructions between your client device and the router.
Which of these might be your problem?
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:32 PM on March 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
PS -- the key to my answer is EoP, because it essentially provides you with a wired connection back to your main router from some other room. EoP does not work in every house, and even in the same house, some powerpoints work better than others. I am a big fan of it when it works but sometimes it can take a bit of fiddling.
Also I just saw your update, and if you don't have your main router supplying WiFi at all, then I'd get EoP adapters and use them to place the Airport in a more central location in your house (or even in the problem room -- experiment with placement) such that you get adequate signal in all the places you need it. That is, you don't need to worry about Bridge mode if you just have a single device supplying WiFi signal.
posted by snap, crackle and pop at 2:32 PM on March 30, 2016
Also I just saw your update, and if you don't have your main router supplying WiFi at all, then I'd get EoP adapters and use them to place the Airport in a more central location in your house (or even in the problem room -- experiment with placement) such that you get adequate signal in all the places you need it. That is, you don't need to worry about Bridge mode if you just have a single device supplying WiFi signal.
posted by snap, crackle and pop at 2:32 PM on March 30, 2016
Additionally to what RedOrGreen listed, it's also possible to go:
(4) Internet -> Cable Modem -> Airport Extreme -> CAT-5 cable -> Airport Express
With your network set to Roaming mode your devices will pick up on the stronger signal of the two devices, and you won't lose bandwidth to the devices talking to each other wirelessly.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:42 PM on March 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
(4) Internet -> Cable Modem -> Airport Extreme -> CAT-5 cable -> Airport Express
With your network set to Roaming mode your devices will pick up on the stronger signal of the two devices, and you won't lose bandwidth to the devices talking to each other wirelessly.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:42 PM on March 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
I should have added that the CAT-5 cable should be a long one, so the Express is in another room.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:49 PM on March 30, 2016
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:49 PM on March 30, 2016
Speaking from experience here: Regardless of what the person who sold you this airport might have implied, airport expresses only extend networks with other apple routers. I'm willing to fall on my sword on this one, because it's true.
Even apple store employees seem to not be 100% on this sometimes, but yea, that's the case. The best you can hope for here if your modem is providing half your wifi network is to create another network with the airport express connected via cable like that.
They do, however, work great for extending networks when you're using an airport extreme as your main router. Especially in the config #4 ChurchHatesTucker describes above.
posted by emptythought at 3:06 PM on March 30, 2016
Even apple store employees seem to not be 100% on this sometimes, but yea, that's the case. The best you can hope for here if your modem is providing half your wifi network is to create another network with the airport express connected via cable like that.
They do, however, work great for extending networks when you're using an airport extreme as your main router. Especially in the config #4 ChurchHatesTucker describes above.
posted by emptythought at 3:06 PM on March 30, 2016
airport expresses only extend networks with other apple routers
They work fine as your sole router, to be clear.
On re-read, have you tried running a CAT cable to a middle room and plugging the airport in there? (i.e., splitting the difference b/t the front and back.) That might work well enough that you don't need another airport.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:27 PM on March 30, 2016
They work fine as your sole router, to be clear.
On re-read, have you tried running a CAT cable to a middle room and plugging the airport in there? (i.e., splitting the difference b/t the front and back.) That might work well enough that you don't need another airport.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:27 PM on March 30, 2016
Best answer: I think it's very possible that you could disconnect the airport entirely and use the wifi capability of the modem, since you think it has it. At least try that and see if it works, it's by far the easiest solution.
posted by Huck500 at 4:55 PM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Huck500 at 4:55 PM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
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This should hopefully help: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204617
posted by papayaninja at 12:43 PM on March 30, 2016