Gaslighting or Alzheimer’s?
March 13, 2016 4:15 PM Subscribe
My new supervisor in her late 60s said something very inappropriate, and when I told her it wasn’t professional she denied saying it. I repeated what I heard, and she asked if I thought she was lying. She shows signs of early dementia. I’m concerned she’s either gaslighting me or has Alzheimer’s. What have been your experiences in dealing with this kind of situation? Snowflakes inside.
Yesterday I heard my new supervisor – who’s in her late 60s – say to me, “Shelia smells bad, so people stay away from her,” after telling me some other not-so-nice things about “Sheila.” I’ve only met Sheila once. I said, “I don’t want to hear any more. It’s not appropriate or professional for you to tell me Sheila smells bad. Could you clarify why you are telling me this?” She replied, “I didn’t say that. I said she SPELLED bad.” I got extremely upset, and I told her, “You’re gaslighting me. I know I heard you say Shelia SMELLED bad.” She replied again, “I said Sheila spelled bad. I would never say Sheila smelled bad. I sometimes mumble. You must have heard me incorrectly. Are you saying I’m lying?” This new supervisor – at a small non-profit where I volunteer once a month – seemed prior to this to be a kind older women who was very forgetful, to the point she told me recently she’s thinking of retiring soon due to forgetting so much. Yesterday she told me she forgot I was coming, even though I saw she had written down on her calendar right in front of her that I was scheduled to come in. She’s sometimes briefly irritable.
My supervisor and I calmly talked this out, with little tension. I told her, “Even if I misheard you, why would you tell me Sheila spelled bad?” She replied, “I thought you should know about office politics.” I asked, “Why would I need to know this information when I only volunteer and I’m new here?” She said, “I thought it would help you to understand Sheila better, since Sheila’s been through some hard times.” I told her, “It’s inappropriate for you to tell me anything personal about Sheila.” She replied, “I’m not telling you anything personal about her, only what I think may have happened to her.” I replied, “I don’t need to know what you guess may have happened to her. If I’m to continue to volunteer here, I need you to respect professional boundaries.” We left it at that.
The experience was very upsetting. Later it occurred to me she might be experiencing early signs of dementia, and I felt concerned for her. I don’t know anyone personally with Alzheimer’s, and don’t know what to look for. So I called the Alzheimer’s Assoc. and talked to one of their care consultants (they have a masters in counseling or social work), and they advised me to read the 10 early signs of Alzheimer’s. I was told it’s possible her social graces are deteriorating. I obviously can’t diagnose my supervisor, but I can see how she might be exhibiting early dementia. If she’s gaslighting me, I definitely won’t go back. But if she’s exhibiting early signs of Alzheimer’s, it might be okay to work with her until she retires. The other possibility is that we just have very different ideas about what constitutes appropriate professional boundaries, and she felt defensive with me. What do you think? I’d appreciate feedback or information.
Yesterday I heard my new supervisor – who’s in her late 60s – say to me, “Shelia smells bad, so people stay away from her,” after telling me some other not-so-nice things about “Sheila.” I’ve only met Sheila once. I said, “I don’t want to hear any more. It’s not appropriate or professional for you to tell me Sheila smells bad. Could you clarify why you are telling me this?” She replied, “I didn’t say that. I said she SPELLED bad.” I got extremely upset, and I told her, “You’re gaslighting me. I know I heard you say Shelia SMELLED bad.” She replied again, “I said Sheila spelled bad. I would never say Sheila smelled bad. I sometimes mumble. You must have heard me incorrectly. Are you saying I’m lying?” This new supervisor – at a small non-profit where I volunteer once a month – seemed prior to this to be a kind older women who was very forgetful, to the point she told me recently she’s thinking of retiring soon due to forgetting so much. Yesterday she told me she forgot I was coming, even though I saw she had written down on her calendar right in front of her that I was scheduled to come in. She’s sometimes briefly irritable.
My supervisor and I calmly talked this out, with little tension. I told her, “Even if I misheard you, why would you tell me Sheila spelled bad?” She replied, “I thought you should know about office politics.” I asked, “Why would I need to know this information when I only volunteer and I’m new here?” She said, “I thought it would help you to understand Sheila better, since Sheila’s been through some hard times.” I told her, “It’s inappropriate for you to tell me anything personal about Sheila.” She replied, “I’m not telling you anything personal about her, only what I think may have happened to her.” I replied, “I don’t need to know what you guess may have happened to her. If I’m to continue to volunteer here, I need you to respect professional boundaries.” We left it at that.
The experience was very upsetting. Later it occurred to me she might be experiencing early signs of dementia, and I felt concerned for her. I don’t know anyone personally with Alzheimer’s, and don’t know what to look for. So I called the Alzheimer’s Assoc. and talked to one of their care consultants (they have a masters in counseling or social work), and they advised me to read the 10 early signs of Alzheimer’s. I was told it’s possible her social graces are deteriorating. I obviously can’t diagnose my supervisor, but I can see how she might be exhibiting early dementia. If she’s gaslighting me, I definitely won’t go back. But if she’s exhibiting early signs of Alzheimer’s, it might be okay to work with her until she retires. The other possibility is that we just have very different ideas about what constitutes appropriate professional boundaries, and she felt defensive with me. What do you think? I’d appreciate feedback or information.
Dementia is a symptom that can be caused by many things, Alzheimer's disease being just one of them. But regardless, you're not qualified to be diagnosing a coworker with anything. Calling the Alzheimer's Association to discuss your supervisor's health is way over the appropriateness boundaries you say you are so concerned about.
posted by cecic at 4:27 PM on March 13, 2016 [54 favorites]
posted by cecic at 4:27 PM on March 13, 2016 [54 favorites]
Best answer: I'm going to vote for other people at the office having a different attitude towards the appropriateness of slightly mean gossip, plus someone being taken aback and feeling defensive about being called out on it. But regardless, it is not really your place to armchair diagnose a person who works at the place where you volunteer once a month. You truly do not have the kind of relationship where you should feel obligated to intervene. If you're not comfortable with the office culture at this place, you should find a different place to volunteer once a month.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:28 PM on March 13, 2016 [48 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:28 PM on March 13, 2016 [48 favorites]
Best answer: What do you think?
I think you should have dropped this issue after she said "I didn’t say that. I said she SPELLED bad."
I think you should not attempt to diagnose coworkers with cognitive disorders.
I think you radically overstepped your place by continuing to press the issue multiple times.
I think your supervisor, in her late 60s, probably has no idea what the term gaslighting means.
I think you will have a hard time in the workplace if a single instance of poor taste by your supervisor offends you to this level.
I think you should find somewhere else to volunteer.
posted by saeculorum at 4:29 PM on March 13, 2016 [119 favorites]
I think you should have dropped this issue after she said "I didn’t say that. I said she SPELLED bad."
I think you should not attempt to diagnose coworkers with cognitive disorders.
I think you radically overstepped your place by continuing to press the issue multiple times.
I think your supervisor, in her late 60s, probably has no idea what the term gaslighting means.
I think you will have a hard time in the workplace if a single instance of poor taste by your supervisor offends you to this level.
I think you should find somewhere else to volunteer.
posted by saeculorum at 4:29 PM on March 13, 2016 [119 favorites]
I think you should be less worried about your supervisor's supposed mental health and more worried about your job. You were out of line, overly familiar, and insubordinate. You owe your supervisor a major apology.
posted by Hermione Granger at 4:30 PM on March 13, 2016 [37 favorites]
posted by Hermione Granger at 4:30 PM on March 13, 2016 [37 favorites]
I think she really did say "spelled bad" and you didn't hear what you thought you heard.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:31 PM on March 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:31 PM on March 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
I obviously can’t diagnose my supervisor
And that's kinda where this conversation ends, right?
Just drop it and move on.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 4:31 PM on March 13, 2016 [12 favorites]
And that's kinda where this conversation ends, right?
Just drop it and move on.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 4:31 PM on March 13, 2016 [12 favorites]
Best answer: at a small non-profit where I volunteer once a month
I think you kind of buried the lede here. This is a place you volunteer at and you're only there once a month? No matter what's going on here, if this interaction bothered you that much, just stop volunteering there. Or, if the volunteer position is that important to you, just drop the subject entirely. It seems like you're way too involved and frankly kind of stepping over the line to push this issue so much at a place where you volunteer once a month.
But, to more directly answer your question, I don't think any of us, including you but especially mefites as a whole, can say 100% what is going on here. She could be in the early stages of dementia, she could be gaslighting you, or this could be a misunderstanding. Nothing you've said rules out or conclusively proves one of these three options, although my bet would be on either misunderstanding and/or maybe she's not quite as with it as she used to be.
Whatever exactly went on here, the answer for you is to disengage. I don't want to dismiss your concerns about her welfare, and I could see why this would be an upsetting interaction (I would definitely have been bothered by this in your position as well). If this woman is experiencing some sort of mental problems, you're in no position to intervene, and it really is not your responsibility or your right to do so.
tl;dr: If you can let it go and continue volunteering, do that. Otherwise, just quit.
posted by litera scripta manet at 4:31 PM on March 13, 2016 [14 favorites]
I think you kind of buried the lede here. This is a place you volunteer at and you're only there once a month? No matter what's going on here, if this interaction bothered you that much, just stop volunteering there. Or, if the volunteer position is that important to you, just drop the subject entirely. It seems like you're way too involved and frankly kind of stepping over the line to push this issue so much at a place where you volunteer once a month.
But, to more directly answer your question, I don't think any of us, including you but especially mefites as a whole, can say 100% what is going on here. She could be in the early stages of dementia, she could be gaslighting you, or this could be a misunderstanding. Nothing you've said rules out or conclusively proves one of these three options, although my bet would be on either misunderstanding and/or maybe she's not quite as with it as she used to be.
Whatever exactly went on here, the answer for you is to disengage. I don't want to dismiss your concerns about her welfare, and I could see why this would be an upsetting interaction (I would definitely have been bothered by this in your position as well). If this woman is experiencing some sort of mental problems, you're in no position to intervene, and it really is not your responsibility or your right to do so.
tl;dr: If you can let it go and continue volunteering, do that. Otherwise, just quit.
posted by litera scripta manet at 4:31 PM on March 13, 2016 [14 favorites]
Normal people decide to have retroactively not said something they actually said all the time. This is not gaslighting, it's just garden variety lying and part of being a functioning member of society is to go along with it when the stakes are low.
Also, you may have misheard her, no matter how certain you are that you didn't.
Most significantly, this is something everybody reasonable drops immediately after it happens, no matter how they feel about it. Bringing this up again after the fact is super weird and makes you look unequipped to operate in an office.
posted by 256 at 4:37 PM on March 13, 2016 [52 favorites]
Also, you may have misheard her, no matter how certain you are that you didn't.
Most significantly, this is something everybody reasonable drops immediately after it happens, no matter how they feel about it. Bringing this up again after the fact is super weird and makes you look unequipped to operate in an office.
posted by 256 at 4:37 PM on March 13, 2016 [52 favorites]
Best answer: She actually might have said "Sheila smells bad," then realized that was way out of line, and denied it so firmly that she believes she said "Sheila spells bad." As a once a month volunteer, you should just forget it.
posted by Carol Anne at 4:39 PM on March 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Carol Anne at 4:39 PM on March 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
I think your supervisor, in her late 60s, probably has no idea what the term gaslighting means.
The term has been around since the movie of that name was released in 1944. She may not know the term, but not because of her age. That said, whether she's gaslighting or whatever the reason for her behavior, I agree with those who suggest you just forget it.
posted by Dolley at 5:14 PM on March 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
The term has been around since the movie of that name was released in 1944. She may not know the term, but not because of her age. That said, whether she's gaslighting or whatever the reason for her behavior, I agree with those who suggest you just forget it.
posted by Dolley at 5:14 PM on March 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you for the feedback so far, I appreciate it and am taking it all in. I should add a few things to clarify, and then I will continue listening. I’m in my 50s and have had great working relationships, but have never worked in a small non-profit. I was more engaged than I normally would have been as volunteer, since they are considering hiring me for a possible job opening there in the near future (that didn’t change after yesterday). The person I spoke with at the Alzheimer’s Assoc. told me twice she thought it was great I called out of concern for my colleague. I called anonymously.
posted by mountainpeak at 5:17 PM on March 13, 2016
posted by mountainpeak at 5:17 PM on March 13, 2016
Well, if Sheila actually does smell bad -- or spell bad -- you have your answer.
Otherwise, I'd just guess that when you called her out on bad-mouthing co-workers, she got defensive and came up with an answer worthy of a seven-year-old. Some people never outgrow denying their bad behavior.
posted by sageleaf at 5:22 PM on March 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
Otherwise, I'd just guess that when you called her out on bad-mouthing co-workers, she got defensive and came up with an answer worthy of a seven-year-old. Some people never outgrow denying their bad behavior.
posted by sageleaf at 5:22 PM on March 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
Best answer: Do you want to work there?
Long story short, for whatever reason, she said something fucked up to you. The only good reaction would have been for you to nod your head, say nothing, and walk away. Starting a confrontation was a problematic reaction. You should not work there. This place is not for you, it's a bad fit. You've shown tremendous weakness and only bad things will happen if you try and stick it out now.
Either she is highly manipulative, or it's a toxic workplace in general. Non-profits are notoriously political and petty workplaces. Why would you be interested in this deepening this experience?
posted by jbenben at 5:34 PM on March 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
Long story short, for whatever reason, she said something fucked up to you. The only good reaction would have been for you to nod your head, say nothing, and walk away. Starting a confrontation was a problematic reaction. You should not work there. This place is not for you, it's a bad fit. You've shown tremendous weakness and only bad things will happen if you try and stick it out now.
Either she is highly manipulative, or it's a toxic workplace in general. Non-profits are notoriously political and petty workplaces. Why would you be interested in this deepening this experience?
posted by jbenben at 5:34 PM on March 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I understand gaslighting to be creating a situation in which one begins to doubt their own perception of events, done with malicious intent on the part of the person doing the gaslighting. So in the scenario you describe, your supervisor would have said "Sheila smells bad" just so that she could deny it when you called her on it. I don't think there's any reason to believe that happened, because there is a simpler explanation that covers all the information you've presented. As 256 said, it's garden variety lying.
I suppose dementia is slightly more likely as an explanation than gaslighting, but not nearly as likely as a person lying about saying something unkind once they've been called on it. My own experience with my father's dementia is that he might deny having said or done something (because he doesn't remember saying it), but he's never couched the denial in terms of providing an explanation of the behavior that implies others have misunderstood him.
I also don't think your supervisor actually said "Sheila smells bad," because that would make the second part of her remark a non-sequitor. I can't imagine an office environment in which people would stay away from a co-worker because of their poor spelling.
If what bothers you most about the incident is that your supervisor might be the type of person who would say a coworker smells bad, I think you should consider carefully whether that is an office where you would be happy working. If the source of most of your bad feelings is the belief that the supervisor was gaslighting you, I don't think you need to be concerned, except insofar as you may be prone to making assumptions about the motivation for her behavior which are unfounded and likely to cause you stress if you find yourself working for her on a regular basis.
posted by layceepee at 5:38 PM on March 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
I suppose dementia is slightly more likely as an explanation than gaslighting, but not nearly as likely as a person lying about saying something unkind once they've been called on it. My own experience with my father's dementia is that he might deny having said or done something (because he doesn't remember saying it), but he's never couched the denial in terms of providing an explanation of the behavior that implies others have misunderstood him.
I also don't think your supervisor actually said "Sheila smells bad," because that would make the second part of her remark a non-sequitor. I can't imagine an office environment in which people would stay away from a co-worker because of their poor spelling.
If what bothers you most about the incident is that your supervisor might be the type of person who would say a coworker smells bad, I think you should consider carefully whether that is an office where you would be happy working. If the source of most of your bad feelings is the belief that the supervisor was gaslighting you, I don't think you need to be concerned, except insofar as you may be prone to making assumptions about the motivation for her behavior which are unfounded and likely to cause you stress if you find yourself working for her on a regular basis.
posted by layceepee at 5:38 PM on March 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
Best answer: My experience with my mother's dementia tells me she would have denied saying anything whatsoever, and not offering a mis-heard word.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:42 PM on March 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 5:42 PM on March 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
I think it's very odd that you're looking for approval from the Alzheimer's advice line lady. She isn't the one whom you'd have to work with, is she?
Your supervisor, for whatever reason, said a mean thing about Sheila, then backtracked when you called her out on it. Honestly, when you called her out, what else could she do? Insist Sheila does in fact smell bad? Tell you to mind your own business? She took the least graceless path out that she could, at that point.
By the way, it's entirely possible that she doesn't recall saying the nasty thing about Sheila - I know people like this, and in fact they are all sixtyish women, whose nastiness is so automatic, so reflexive, that they literally do not know what is coming out of their mouth. It's auto-pilot; they're not thinking as they speak. It doesn't mean she has Alzheimer's. But it's very unpleasant to be around, and if this sort of thing bothers you (not that I blame you! it certainly bothers me -) then you'd be a bad fit to work under this lady.
posted by fingersandtoes at 5:45 PM on March 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
Your supervisor, for whatever reason, said a mean thing about Sheila, then backtracked when you called her out on it. Honestly, when you called her out, what else could she do? Insist Sheila does in fact smell bad? Tell you to mind your own business? She took the least graceless path out that she could, at that point.
By the way, it's entirely possible that she doesn't recall saying the nasty thing about Sheila - I know people like this, and in fact they are all sixtyish women, whose nastiness is so automatic, so reflexive, that they literally do not know what is coming out of their mouth. It's auto-pilot; they're not thinking as they speak. It doesn't mean she has Alzheimer's. But it's very unpleasant to be around, and if this sort of thing bothers you (not that I blame you! it certainly bothers me -) then you'd be a bad fit to work under this lady.
posted by fingersandtoes at 5:45 PM on March 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
Best answer: You say you're in your 50s --- speaking as someone slightly older, it really is extremely possible that YOU have experienced at least some hearing loss and you misheard her.
Okay, now *I've* just armchair diagnosed *you* with extremely little evidence. How's it feel? Maybe I should get an appointment set up for you to get a hearing test.... it'd be just as reasonable as your having called the Alzheimer's Association on your supervisor.
Maybe she said 'smell', maybe she said 'spell'; maybe you misheard her. Either way, drop it and move on. You aren't anybody's doctor or her family, you aren't even there more than once a month. You WAY overreacted and over-reached here.
posted by easily confused at 5:48 PM on March 13, 2016 [36 favorites]
Okay, now *I've* just armchair diagnosed *you* with extremely little evidence. How's it feel? Maybe I should get an appointment set up for you to get a hearing test.... it'd be just as reasonable as your having called the Alzheimer's Association on your supervisor.
Maybe she said 'smell', maybe she said 'spell'; maybe you misheard her. Either way, drop it and move on. You aren't anybody's doctor or her family, you aren't even there more than once a month. You WAY overreacted and over-reached here.
posted by easily confused at 5:48 PM on March 13, 2016 [36 favorites]
A different possibility: she did in fact say "smell" when she meant "spell". That sort of thing happens to me all the time, and I don't suffer from dementia. Often, I don't even notice it--I only know about it because my husband points it out to me.
More generally, I agree with the others that you seriously overreacted, should just drop it, and avoid similar interactions with this individual. You might want to apologize.
posted by meese at 6:12 PM on March 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
More generally, I agree with the others that you seriously overreacted, should just drop it, and avoid similar interactions with this individual. You might want to apologize.
posted by meese at 6:12 PM on March 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
I will also say that this sounds like someone you want to be a little careful around. I wouldn't say that she's gaslighting you, but mean gossip followed by lying when called on it sounds like someone who could cause drama and strife. Be friendly, but you probably don't want to be besties with this person, and you definitely don't want to confide in her about yourself. Remember that someone who gossips about other people to you will also gossip about you to other people. If you end up working with this person, you don't want to get on her bad side, but you also want to keep some distance between you.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:30 PM on March 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:30 PM on March 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Regardless of the ins and outs of who said what, your name is almost certainly already mud at that place, fyi.
I'd find somewhere else to volunteer.
posted by Sebmojo at 7:09 PM on March 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'd find somewhere else to volunteer.
posted by Sebmojo at 7:09 PM on March 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
Best answer: ,,,I'd just guess that when you called her out on bad-mouthing co-workers, she got defensive and came up with an answer worthy of a seven-year-old.
Seconding this. Perhaps she is losing her social graces, blurring boundries, etc.
What should have happened after that is that you should have accepted her excuse, apologized for the misunderstanding, and filed it away in your brain for future reference.
There is nothing to be gained by the level of confrontation that you brought to the situation. Go back to being gracious, let people cover up for them selves a little bit. Little white lies are the machinery that some people run on. Recognize them, let them go.
posted by SLC Mom at 7:51 PM on March 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
Seconding this. Perhaps she is losing her social graces, blurring boundries, etc.
What should have happened after that is that you should have accepted her excuse, apologized for the misunderstanding, and filed it away in your brain for future reference.
There is nothing to be gained by the level of confrontation that you brought to the situation. Go back to being gracious, let people cover up for them selves a little bit. Little white lies are the machinery that some people run on. Recognize them, let them go.
posted by SLC Mom at 7:51 PM on March 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
And remember while gossip is a bad thing, part of getting to know one another is sharing random thoughts and having others confirm them. It is an attempt at friendship, albeit a bad one.
So, your relationship with this person is going to be very strained. Not only did you correct her thought that she shared for connection you argued with her about it. And once she passed it off (to avoid humiliating herself) you continued to say this is wrong.
Which it may be. It doesn't particularly matter if a coworker is stinky or not, and you'll find out.
Next time you can briefly counterdict with your own opinion, which is you hadn't noticed anything and move on.
You are now stuck with this rift between someone who may be supervising you at a job. You need to be tactful.
Many supervisors do weird wierd things for all kinds of reasons. But ultimately they hire and fire you. A civil relationship is required.
posted by AlexiaSky at 8:09 PM on March 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
So, your relationship with this person is going to be very strained. Not only did you correct her thought that she shared for connection you argued with her about it. And once she passed it off (to avoid humiliating herself) you continued to say this is wrong.
Which it may be. It doesn't particularly matter if a coworker is stinky or not, and you'll find out.
Next time you can briefly counterdict with your own opinion, which is you hadn't noticed anything and move on.
You are now stuck with this rift between someone who may be supervising you at a job. You need to be tactful.
Many supervisors do weird wierd things for all kinds of reasons. But ultimately they hire and fire you. A civil relationship is required.
posted by AlexiaSky at 8:09 PM on March 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
Best answer: This is a place you volunteer at and you're only there once a month? No matter what's going on here, if this interaction bothered you that much, just stop volunteering there.
This is the correct response. Based on my familial experiences with both gaslighting and dementia, there's no positive outcome that involves you working with this person. Move on.
posted by mwhybark at 8:18 PM on March 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
This is the correct response. Based on my familial experiences with both gaslighting and dementia, there's no positive outcome that involves you working with this person. Move on.
posted by mwhybark at 8:18 PM on March 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
Best answer: FWIW: what you are describing is consistent with my experience with someone in the early stages of dementia: you've described her as very forgetful, she has suggested retiring soon because of her forgetfulness and she forgot you were coming even though it was written in the calendar.
Dementia basically is the deterioration of the brain. It affects more than memory. And the cognitive decline is not consistent.
One of the signs that something was wrong with the person I know with dementia was that she began saying socially inappropriate things, things a well mannered person might think about another person, but would refrain from saying. Like someone smells bad. Or someone is fat. This from a person who had been a paragon of social grace. She also started to get irritated easily.
Your supervisor's reaction to you confronting her also fits with my experience of someone with dementia who is trying to cover for memory loss/cognitive decline.
I don't think it's odd at all that you called the Alzheimer's advice line; you're concerned and confused. They offer a great service and it sounds like they helped you.
All that said, what to do? One thing that hasn't been mentioned that you might consider raising your concerns about your supervisor's forgetfulness to her manager.
posted by magnislibris at 8:59 PM on March 13, 2016
Dementia basically is the deterioration of the brain. It affects more than memory. And the cognitive decline is not consistent.
One of the signs that something was wrong with the person I know with dementia was that she began saying socially inappropriate things, things a well mannered person might think about another person, but would refrain from saying. Like someone smells bad. Or someone is fat. This from a person who had been a paragon of social grace. She also started to get irritated easily.
Your supervisor's reaction to you confronting her also fits with my experience of someone with dementia who is trying to cover for memory loss/cognitive decline.
I don't think it's odd at all that you called the Alzheimer's advice line; you're concerned and confused. They offer a great service and it sounds like they helped you.
All that said, what to do? One thing that hasn't been mentioned that you might consider raising your concerns about your supervisor's forgetfulness to her manager.
posted by magnislibris at 8:59 PM on March 13, 2016
Best answer: One thing that hasn't been mentioned that you might consider raising your concerns about your supervisor's forgetfulness to her manager.
No, you should not endanger someone’s job because you misheard something or don’t know how to deal with office relationships.
posted by bongo_x at 9:36 PM on March 13, 2016 [23 favorites]
No, you should not endanger someone’s job because you misheard something or don’t know how to deal with office relationships.
posted by bongo_x at 9:36 PM on March 13, 2016 [23 favorites]
“I don’t want to hear any more. It’s not appropriate or professional for you to tell me Sheila smells bad. Could you clarify why you are telling me this?”
I got extremely upset,
"If I’m to continue to volunteer here, I need you to respect professional boundaries.”
I mean, there's a way to opt out of this kind of common office talk without making a huge deal about it and lecturing your supervisor on "professional boundaries." It is certainly shitty to spread negative personal talk like that but it's not like she made a racist remark or sexual joke that would necessitate this kind of scolding, confrontational, formal, legalistic language. I don't think it's any mystery why she reacted as she did.
I agree she probably did say "smell" and it was a gross thing to say (though she probably thought she was giving you the inside scoop on the office as a way of bonding. In my experience this kind of talk occurs in most workplaces. I don't participate in it and I redirect conversations that start that way, and the message is usually received.)
It's your call if you want to work in this sort of office environment with this sort of supervisor, but the reprimand, great upset, and armchair diagnosis sound like an overreaction. If your supervisor at the place where you volunteer monthly is in early stages of dementia, I don't know that it's much your business, and is beside the point in this case.
I think you'll feel better, and gain clarity on the situation, if you take a step back and stop thinking about this for a while. You remind me of me when I am experiencing acute anxiety and get to stewing about something.
posted by kapers at 9:44 PM on March 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
I got extremely upset,
"If I’m to continue to volunteer here, I need you to respect professional boundaries.”
I mean, there's a way to opt out of this kind of common office talk without making a huge deal about it and lecturing your supervisor on "professional boundaries." It is certainly shitty to spread negative personal talk like that but it's not like she made a racist remark or sexual joke that would necessitate this kind of scolding, confrontational, formal, legalistic language. I don't think it's any mystery why she reacted as she did.
I agree she probably did say "smell" and it was a gross thing to say (though she probably thought she was giving you the inside scoop on the office as a way of bonding. In my experience this kind of talk occurs in most workplaces. I don't participate in it and I redirect conversations that start that way, and the message is usually received.)
It's your call if you want to work in this sort of office environment with this sort of supervisor, but the reprimand, great upset, and armchair diagnosis sound like an overreaction. If your supervisor at the place where you volunteer monthly is in early stages of dementia, I don't know that it's much your business, and is beside the point in this case.
I think you'll feel better, and gain clarity on the situation, if you take a step back and stop thinking about this for a while. You remind me of me when I am experiencing acute anxiety and get to stewing about something.
posted by kapers at 9:44 PM on March 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
it's not like she made a racist remark or sexual joke
It's of interest to me that you appear to know Sheila's ethnicity. Assuming I am mistaken and that you do not, this statement is not accurate. Those of us in this thread do not know that the remark was not racist, or for that matter, sexist.
posted by mwhybark at 9:52 PM on March 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's of interest to me that you appear to know Sheila's ethnicity. Assuming I am mistaken and that you do not, this statement is not accurate. Those of us in this thread do not know that the remark was not racist, or for that matter, sexist.
posted by mwhybark at 9:52 PM on March 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks again everyone. This has been very enlightening, and I can see now I should have just dropped it. FYI - Sheila is a person of color, and my supervisor is white.
posted by mountainpeak at 10:48 PM on March 13, 2016
posted by mountainpeak at 10:48 PM on March 13, 2016
Best answer: Regardless of whether or not she said Sheila smelled bad, your reaction was way too strong. If someone said that to me, I'd quietly think it is uncalled for and move on. I'd probably say Sheila seems fine to me and then try to change the subject. Unless she was repeatedly trashing Sheila, I definitely would not call her out and demand to know why she said it. But let's say that did happen, you still can't go around accusing people of "gaslighting" you over what could actually be a misunderstanding. Gaslighting is a pattern, not one disputed word that may or may not have been misheard.
Life many times is about picking your battles and you really didn't need to pick this one. I think you've approached this situation in a very confrontational way and you may want to not react so quickly in the future.
If she does have dementia or Alzheimer's, it's really not your business -- you're not friends with this person and presumably she has family. I'd just focus on your work and worry less about your supervisor.
edit: OP replied while I was typing my reply. No intention to pile on! Good luck.
posted by AppleTurnover at 10:50 PM on March 13, 2016
Life many times is about picking your battles and you really didn't need to pick this one. I think you've approached this situation in a very confrontational way and you may want to not react so quickly in the future.
If she does have dementia or Alzheimer's, it's really not your business -- you're not friends with this person and presumably she has family. I'd just focus on your work and worry less about your supervisor.
edit: OP replied while I was typing my reply. No intention to pile on! Good luck.
posted by AppleTurnover at 10:50 PM on March 13, 2016
your name is almost certainly already mud at that place, fyi
Wait, what? Did I miss the part where OP's manager tells everyone about the episode?
The piling on here is pretty intense, to be honest. OP, you goofed, but it happens. It doesn't mean you're unfit to work in an office or some histrionic bunk like that.
Just lie low and steer clear of office politics as much as possible.
posted by delight at 11:29 PM on March 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
Wait, what? Did I miss the part where OP's manager tells everyone about the episode?
The piling on here is pretty intense, to be honest. OP, you goofed, but it happens. It doesn't mean you're unfit to work in an office or some histrionic bunk like that.
Just lie low and steer clear of office politics as much as possible.
posted by delight at 11:29 PM on March 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
When someone gets caught talking shit about a third party, then immediately has a semi-believable lie to turn back and the accuser... that, my friend, is a giant, waving red flag. Your ears are just fine. Your manager said Sheila smelled bad and then turned it around on you as if you were the one starting problems when you confronted her. Your manager is as of now talking shit about you, not specifically about this incident, and not in any directly pin-downable way (ie now you are the one who smells bad until you are the one who spells bad).
In another situation this would be when you back away slowly, half-smiling without showing your teeth and avoiding eye contact until you get to the door and then book it the fuck out of there; but a once-a-month volunteer gig might be a good opportunity for anthropological research. How does the subject lie, cheat, and manipulate those around her? How does she cover her tracks and find retribution against those who speak against her? What are the sad, petty goals she wastes everyone else's time and energy on getting?
Or just find non-asshats to volunteer with.
posted by 3urypteris at 1:13 AM on March 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
In another situation this would be when you back away slowly, half-smiling without showing your teeth and avoiding eye contact until you get to the door and then book it the fuck out of there; but a once-a-month volunteer gig might be a good opportunity for anthropological research. How does the subject lie, cheat, and manipulate those around her? How does she cover her tracks and find retribution against those who speak against her? What are the sad, petty goals she wastes everyone else's time and energy on getting?
Or just find non-asshats to volunteer with.
posted by 3urypteris at 1:13 AM on March 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Either she badmouthed Sheila or she improperly modified a transitive verb with an adjective. You can do this with "smell" because smelling badly means not being able to discern scents but you can't do it with "spell" because spelling bad means saying or writing the letters B, A, D. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. I'd quit.
posted by janey47 at 2:34 AM on March 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by janey47 at 2:34 AM on March 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Don't volunteer there anymore. The agency approves of this lady, and does nothing to stop her. She's letting loose with 'teh crazy' from jump....just let it go. I'm sure there's another place for you to volunteer, go there and do that.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:19 AM on March 14, 2016
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:19 AM on March 14, 2016
Best answer: I believe you. You obviously didn't mishear what she said because 'Sheila spelled bad' would not be followed by 'that's why people stay away from her' unless you work for a proofreading company and poor spelling gets people shunned, shamed and ostracized from the group. She sounds like my dad whose approach to life is basically 'say offensive things and when people get hurt, lie through your a$$ so you don't look bad'. There are people who blatantly lie like this. She doesn't have dementia. She just wanted to gossip and you reacted strongly since you don't like gossip so she pretended not to have said it. I think you should have pretended back because it's obvious she now understands where the boundary is. She thought she could gossip with you. Turns out she can't. She knows. Leave it.
posted by ihaveyourfoot at 6:20 AM on March 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by ihaveyourfoot at 6:20 AM on March 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
> The term has been around since the movie of that name was released in 1944. She may not know the term, but not because of her age.
This is not true. The verb is first recorded by the OED in 1969 (S. C. Plog Changing Perspectives in Mental Illness 83), and I (born in 1951) certainly didn't see or hear it until the '70s. Furthermore, it is not a term in general circulation, and it is quite possible never to have been exposed to it if one does not take part in certain types of conversations or read certain types of material.
I agree with pretty much everyone that you should just let this go. It is unbelievably trivial.
posted by languagehat at 10:55 AM on March 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
This is not true. The verb is first recorded by the OED in 1969 (S. C. Plog Changing Perspectives in Mental Illness 83), and I (born in 1951) certainly didn't see or hear it until the '70s. Furthermore, it is not a term in general circulation, and it is quite possible never to have been exposed to it if one does not take part in certain types of conversations or read certain types of material.
I agree with pretty much everyone that you should just let this go. It is unbelievably trivial.
posted by languagehat at 10:55 AM on March 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
So, the one time you met Sheila, did she smell bad? You can be honest, I don't know her or you or your boss and I don't care one way or another. Some people smell bad. It's just the way the world is.
Why would people "stay away" from somebody who "spells bad"?
So it seems probable your boss said Sheila smells bad. That's fine. I say people smell bad all the time, even when they don't smell bad, or when I don't know how they smell. I also say they have stupid heads and dumb faces, or are geriatric, or have bad taste in clothing and accessories, or that everything they do and enjoy sucks and they will die alone in a ditch in the rain.
So your boss said that Sheila smells bad, and you called her out on it, and she tried to save face by claiming she actually said "spells bad", and now she knows that you are on to her bullshit and aren't interested in her pointless bitchiness and gossip...and literally the only thing you know about her is that she is your boss and she said "Sheila smells bad".
This is how people are. Welcome to being a human being living on the planet Earth. Drop it.
posted by turbid dahlia at 4:10 PM on March 14, 2016
Why would people "stay away" from somebody who "spells bad"?
So it seems probable your boss said Sheila smells bad. That's fine. I say people smell bad all the time, even when they don't smell bad, or when I don't know how they smell. I also say they have stupid heads and dumb faces, or are geriatric, or have bad taste in clothing and accessories, or that everything they do and enjoy sucks and they will die alone in a ditch in the rain.
So your boss said that Sheila smells bad, and you called her out on it, and she tried to save face by claiming she actually said "spells bad", and now she knows that you are on to her bullshit and aren't interested in her pointless bitchiness and gossip...and literally the only thing you know about her is that she is your boss and she said "Sheila smells bad".
This is how people are. Welcome to being a human being living on the planet Earth. Drop it.
posted by turbid dahlia at 4:10 PM on March 14, 2016
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posted by otherwordlyglow at 4:23 PM on March 13, 2016 [150 favorites]