Kid "working" at major chain store, should I do something?
January 28, 2016 1:22 PM Subscribe
There's a local petco where every other weekend I've gone in, I see a small girl cleaning tanks and sweeping floors and stuff. I've talked to her, and one of the managers of the store is her dad, and on his visitation weekends, he makes her stay at the store for multiple shifts at a time, doing things like cleaning out cages. She's there so often that customers know her name. She's not being paid, by either her dad or the store. This weekend I stopped her from leaving with a sketchy customer who wanted her "help" getting something from his car.
I don't know what to do. It may be that her dad has nothing else he can do, or there could be a thousand other factors about which I don't know. That said, this seems really unfair and dangerous for this little girl. (11-12 yrs old) I'm not sure what, if anything, I should do. Help me hive mind, you're my only hope
I don't know what to do. It may be that her dad has nothing else he can do, or there could be a thousand other factors about which I don't know. That said, this seems really unfair and dangerous for this little girl. (11-12 yrs old) I'm not sure what, if anything, I should do. Help me hive mind, you're my only hope
If you're concerned about her safety and or labor laws, call your local protective services and let them sort it out. It's not your job to solve it, there are systems in place to protect her if necessary.
posted by HuronBob at 1:28 PM on January 28, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by HuronBob at 1:28 PM on January 28, 2016 [17 favorites]
Does your state have a labor commissioner? I know that some states have exceptions in the child-work laws for family owned businesses like farms, but this seems way beyond that. You may want to call and report it.
That said, I doubt the father would have her at the store if he had any other child-care options, so the outcome might be a real problem for him, or her, or both.
posted by suelac at 1:29 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
That said, I doubt the father would have her at the store if he had any other child-care options, so the outcome might be a real problem for him, or her, or both.
posted by suelac at 1:29 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
I personally would call my local child protective services and report it. It's one thing to help out at a family business. It's another to be doing gruntwork at a place so large NO ONE SEES YOU ALMOST GET INTO A CAR WITH A STRANGER. WHAT.
Report this, please.
posted by phunniemee at 1:30 PM on January 28, 2016 [42 favorites]
Report this, please.
posted by phunniemee at 1:30 PM on January 28, 2016 [42 favorites]
Do not say anything! This is none of your business at all. Just because it makes you uncomfortable doesn't mean it is wrong. She's not that young and a lot of children hang out at the family business while their parents work, most commonly in immigrant cultural communities. The upper middle-class parenting ideal that entails children must be catered to in every way and that their time is best spent being ferried from one activity to another is not the only way to live.
posted by scantee at 1:31 PM on January 28, 2016 [79 favorites]
posted by scantee at 1:31 PM on January 28, 2016 [79 favorites]
I would not call child protective services unless you think the situation you are witnessing is so bad she would be better off in foster care - because often, that is CPS's response.
posted by corb at 1:32 PM on January 28, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by corb at 1:32 PM on January 28, 2016 [12 favorites]
That said, I doubt the father would have her at the store if he had any other child-care options, so the outcome might be a real problem for him, or her, or both.
A twelve year old is old enough to stay at home by herself. (I mean, I was babysitting other people's children at 11.) Sure, sure supervision, all kids are different, ok, but she's obviously not getting enough parental supervision at the store to not walk off with a stranger, so it's not like she's in a great protected situation currently.
posted by phunniemee at 1:33 PM on January 28, 2016 [19 favorites]
A twelve year old is old enough to stay at home by herself. (I mean, I was babysitting other people's children at 11.) Sure, sure supervision, all kids are different, ok, but she's obviously not getting enough parental supervision at the store to not walk off with a stranger, so it's not like she's in a great protected situation currently.
posted by phunniemee at 1:33 PM on January 28, 2016 [19 favorites]
Yeah, I went to work on Saturdays with a parent when I was a kid. I did "work" at the factory which mainly entailed cleaning things up or doing simple little organizing tasks. It was not a family business but a job, my parent was not even a manager but an employee. The business owner would give me little tasks to do and pay me little bits of money, just to keep me busy/entertained mostly, I think. Some of this things were probably re-done by an adult when I wasn't there. Anyway, why was I going to a factory on Saturday mornings when I was 4 or 5? Because there wasn't anywhere else to leave me and food and mortgages aren't free. I wasn't in any danger and I was sure as hell better off hanging out there one morning a week than I would have been in foster care.
I would tell her dad about the stranger so he can shore up the street-proofing and let it go.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 1:35 PM on January 28, 2016 [36 favorites]
I would tell her dad about the stranger so he can shore up the street-proofing and let it go.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 1:35 PM on January 28, 2016 [36 favorites]
I would call Petco! I can't believe this is a situation they would tolerate in one of their stores. This is ridiculous. And like you said, potentially dangerous.
posted by fiercecupcake at 1:35 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by fiercecupcake at 1:35 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
To elaborate, my experience with CPS (in both educational and therapy situations) is that the LAST thing they want to do is remove a child from the home. The first choice, in my experience, has always been to solve the problem (encourage better options for child care, parenting classes, etc, etc).. I guess my question is, next week do you want to know that someone spoke to Dad about better options, or read about this kid walking off with a stranger.....
posted by HuronBob at 1:36 PM on January 28, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by HuronBob at 1:36 PM on January 28, 2016 [13 favorites]
And if she's old enough to stay home alone, then this is even less of an issue. I mean what if her dad DIDN'T work there and she just liked going to the pet store and hanging around and looking at stuff? That's ok, right? So why is it not ok if her dad is there?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 1:36 PM on January 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 1:36 PM on January 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
I think that, in an instance in which you don't know the whole story, I would be very hesitant to intervene unless you thought the kid was in danger. Do you actually think she's in danger?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 1:43 PM on January 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 1:43 PM on January 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
Best answer: I agree that the "getting into a car with a stranger" brings this to a different level than "kid hanging out at dad's work.
You can call the Childhelp hotline to discuss this and get advice. Unlike with a call to a local government authority, the information won't go any further if you decide it shouldn't.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 1:47 PM on January 28, 2016 [25 favorites]
You can call the Childhelp hotline to discuss this and get advice. Unlike with a call to a local government authority, the information won't go any further if you decide it shouldn't.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 1:47 PM on January 28, 2016 [25 favorites]
I have really mixed feelings - for one thing, this is basically wage theft and illegal labor. There's no "my dad manages a chain so I will be working for free" exemption in the law, and what's happening is that a job which should be paid and should be held by a member of the community is being filled by treating the kid as a sort of unpaid intern. Money that should be circulating in the community is going to Petco in the shape of bigger profits.
It also raises some questions - is Petco liable in some way? What if she gets hurt? What if she breaks things? What if she is mopping the floor and there's a puddle and a customer falls? What if Petco figures this out? Is it going to have negative consequences for her dad?
If she simply can't be left somewhere Not The Store, surely there's a place in the store where she could read or do homework rather than work - unless she actively enjoys cleaning the cages, for instance (which, even so, for insurance and labor law reasons seems like a bad idea.)
It's not that I think kids can't work or can't get any satisfaction out of unpaid labor, but this situation seems weird to me, and unlikely to end well.
I would not leap to getting the law involved, personally, but a little further investigation - and maybe a little talk with the kid to find out how she feels about this - wouldn't hurt.
posted by Frowner at 1:51 PM on January 28, 2016 [20 favorites]
It also raises some questions - is Petco liable in some way? What if she gets hurt? What if she breaks things? What if she is mopping the floor and there's a puddle and a customer falls? What if Petco figures this out? Is it going to have negative consequences for her dad?
If she simply can't be left somewhere Not The Store, surely there's a place in the store where she could read or do homework rather than work - unless she actively enjoys cleaning the cages, for instance (which, even so, for insurance and labor law reasons seems like a bad idea.)
It's not that I think kids can't work or can't get any satisfaction out of unpaid labor, but this situation seems weird to me, and unlikely to end well.
I would not leap to getting the law involved, personally, but a little further investigation - and maybe a little talk with the kid to find out how she feels about this - wouldn't hurt.
posted by Frowner at 1:51 PM on January 28, 2016 [20 favorites]
That's ok, right? So why is it not ok if her dad is there?
This is why (from the OP):
And...
posted by moxiequz at 1:54 PM on January 28, 2016 [36 favorites]
This is why (from the OP):
cleaning tanks and sweeping floors and stuff.1. This is child labor. This is illegal in the US. It doesn't matter if she has to be with her dad because that's the only time he has visitation rights and he has to work. She should NOT being doing work for the store. There's a difference between hanging out in a store and doing activities that only employees (of legal working age) should be doing.
And...
This weekend I stopped her from leaving with a sketchy customer who wanted her "help" getting something from his car.Based on this alone, this child is not receiving the attention and care that she needs to be safe in that environment.
posted by moxiequz at 1:54 PM on January 28, 2016 [36 favorites]
Call child protective services: as others say, this might pass muster in a family-owned shop, but not in a huge chain like Petco.
Sure, Dad has her there because it's easier for him than finding other child-care options, but he does have choices, and he's making a bad one here: he may say that's just when he has his visitation scheduled, but visitation can be rearranged, just as his work shifts can be rearranged. I don't care if she only 'works' 4-5 hour at a time rather than the multiple shifts you mention; the kid isn't actually getting to spend anything even remotely like family-time with Dad, because he's working fulltime or more.
If he's unwilling/unable to move around his work shifts (although since he's a manager, it'd be a heck of a lot easier for him to change his hours than for a cashier to change theirs) to make sure he's off work when she is with him and he's unwilling/unable to work out a different visitation schedule so she comes to visit him on his current days off, then it appears that he doesn't really care to spend one-on-one time with her, and screw him: that's just lousy parenting. And even if she is old enough to stay at his home alone, then why shouldn't she just stay at her mom's and save herself the hassle of traveling to Dad's empty place?
The stranger wanting her 'help' outside at their car is just the icing on this neglectful cake.
posted by easily confused at 1:55 PM on January 28, 2016 [7 favorites]
Sure, Dad has her there because it's easier for him than finding other child-care options, but he does have choices, and he's making a bad one here: he may say that's just when he has his visitation scheduled, but visitation can be rearranged, just as his work shifts can be rearranged. I don't care if she only 'works' 4-5 hour at a time rather than the multiple shifts you mention; the kid isn't actually getting to spend anything even remotely like family-time with Dad, because he's working fulltime or more.
If he's unwilling/unable to move around his work shifts (although since he's a manager, it'd be a heck of a lot easier for him to change his hours than for a cashier to change theirs) to make sure he's off work when she is with him and he's unwilling/unable to work out a different visitation schedule so she comes to visit him on his current days off, then it appears that he doesn't really care to spend one-on-one time with her, and screw him: that's just lousy parenting. And even if she is old enough to stay at his home alone, then why shouldn't she just stay at her mom's and save herself the hassle of traveling to Dad's empty place?
The stranger wanting her 'help' outside at their car is just the icing on this neglectful cake.
posted by easily confused at 1:55 PM on January 28, 2016 [7 favorites]
I should have mentioned in my original comment: I am a former child protection social worker and these are the kinds of cases I absolutely dreaded. Such a waste of resources and and truly insane stress on the parents. If you report this to CPS, they will be forced to investigate and nothing will come of it (because there is no abuse or neglect going on) except that they might recommend to the father that he not have her in the store because it makes customers uncomfortable. Do you know what he'll do, considering she's 12? Leave her home alone. Do you think that is preferable to the current situation?
Regarding the stranger and the car, if you're that concerned go talk to the father about it before you even consider calling CPS. You're skipping over the most obvious next step solution and going right for the most extreme one.
posted by scantee at 1:56 PM on January 28, 2016 [144 favorites]
Regarding the stranger and the car, if you're that concerned go talk to the father about it before you even consider calling CPS. You're skipping over the most obvious next step solution and going right for the most extreme one.
posted by scantee at 1:56 PM on January 28, 2016 [144 favorites]
When my parents had a family business, I sometimes swept up and loaded the coke machine for the business next door out of boredom. First step: See if chatting with her reveals whether her dad is, in fact, making or forcing her to do these things or if she is tagging along to be around dad and then being allowed to keep herself occupied.
Second, check your state's labor laws. Child labor laws vary by state. Every other weekend is possibly not illegal if she is being paid.
Yes, call a hot line and find out some parameters for what would be reasonably reportable. Do a little checking so you aren't just blowing things crazily out of proportion, but if, after doing a little fact checking, you remain alarmed, report it. If they investigate and find nothing wrong, no harm. If you do nothing and kid winds up harmed, you will regret saying nothing.
I had a teacher report me to a school social worker. Social worker called me and we chatted and laughed about it and she concluded "terrible misunderstanding, I don't need you to come in, you are fine." Not all social workers are just out to nail parents to the wall on the flimsiest excuse. But do make sure you aren't just jumping the gun.
posted by Michele in California at 1:59 PM on January 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
Second, check your state's labor laws. Child labor laws vary by state. Every other weekend is possibly not illegal if she is being paid.
Yes, call a hot line and find out some parameters for what would be reasonably reportable. Do a little checking so you aren't just blowing things crazily out of proportion, but if, after doing a little fact checking, you remain alarmed, report it. If they investigate and find nothing wrong, no harm. If you do nothing and kid winds up harmed, you will regret saying nothing.
I had a teacher report me to a school social worker. Social worker called me and we chatted and laughed about it and she concluded "terrible misunderstanding, I don't need you to come in, you are fine." Not all social workers are just out to nail parents to the wall on the flimsiest excuse. But do make sure you aren't just jumping the gun.
posted by Michele in California at 1:59 PM on January 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
Calling CPS or complaining to Petco is likely to lead to major family upheaval and to this man losing his job. Do you think those possibilities would improve this girl's life? I can't imagine the stress her dad must be under now... or how much worse it would get if you intervened.
posted by metasarah at 2:01 PM on January 28, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by metasarah at 2:01 PM on January 28, 2016 [17 favorites]
The stranger car thing seems so irrelevant to the kid at work thing to me. I mean if she were the hypothetical kid just hanging out at the pet store, isn't it just as likely she could be approached by a dangerous stranger? The problem isn't that she was in a place where a dangerous stranger could be or that her father didn't see the stranger approach her.
This could happen while she was out riding her bike in front of her house while her SAHM baked cookies in the kitchen and her father went inside to get the videocamera for a Mormon-televeision-ad moment. Since it could happen anywhere, the solution is not to never have in a place where this could happen but to make sure she knows what to do when it does. The problem is that when approached by a stranger she didn't know to not go. She hasn't been adequately street-proofed and that would be a problem no matter where she was, and especially if she were home alone. Absolutely tell her dad about the stranger thing so he can do a better job of teaching her to recognize and avoid a dangerous situation.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 2:03 PM on January 28, 2016 [20 favorites]
This could happen while she was out riding her bike in front of her house while her SAHM baked cookies in the kitchen and her father went inside to get the videocamera for a Mormon-televeision-ad moment. Since it could happen anywhere, the solution is not to never have in a place where this could happen but to make sure she knows what to do when it does. The problem is that when approached by a stranger she didn't know to not go. She hasn't been adequately street-proofed and that would be a problem no matter where she was, and especially if she were home alone. Absolutely tell her dad about the stranger thing so he can do a better job of teaching her to recognize and avoid a dangerous situation.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 2:03 PM on January 28, 2016 [20 favorites]
Yeah, this a bit difficult. Would you feel the same way if was a family owned pet store? I don't thinks it bad or unusual for kids to help out at stores but the fact that it's a chain is what weird. But I wouldn't call CPS or PETCO yet. I don't think managers at chains stores make a lot, hell he might just be an assistant manager for all we know. If you call PET CO he might lose his job, then he can't take care of her or pay child support, which won't help his current situation if this is his only option. I think your best bet is to talk to him first and to remember that everyone raises children differently and there's more than one right way to do it.
posted by CosmicSeeker42 at 2:12 PM on January 28, 2016
posted by CosmicSeeker42 at 2:12 PM on January 28, 2016
Response by poster: Y'all I didn't say I was calling cps, so please don't get aggro about something I didn't say. As to her dad, he's one of those twitchy guys that sets off my confrontation radar. He puffed up and raised his voice at me when I said something about her leaving the store with a customer. Very defensive and proto aggressive. I left not sure I would return to that store, actually.
Couple other things, outside of family businesses and farms, the legal age to work in Texas is 15. The girl told me recently about her 12th birthday, and she said she doesn't get paid. She's a super friendly, little girl who talks to everyone. It's not like her presence is a secret to the other petco employees.
Yes, I am uncomfortable about it. No, perhaps it is none of my business. This is why I turned to the hive mind for opinions.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 2:14 PM on January 28, 2016 [25 favorites]
Couple other things, outside of family businesses and farms, the legal age to work in Texas is 15. The girl told me recently about her 12th birthday, and she said she doesn't get paid. She's a super friendly, little girl who talks to everyone. It's not like her presence is a secret to the other petco employees.
Yes, I am uncomfortable about it. No, perhaps it is none of my business. This is why I turned to the hive mind for opinions.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 2:14 PM on January 28, 2016 [25 favorites]
I don't understand the "do absolutely nothing" suggestion. Calling CPS might not necessarily be the first course of action but doing nothing while seeing a child in a potentially dangerous situation is not the right decision either. People get touchy when parenting choices are questioned by outsiders, but there are plenty of questionable parents who expose their kids to all sorts of dangers. Also, there's a reason why child labor laws exist, whether one agrees with them culturally or not.
I think talking to her dad is your best bet. Tell him about the stranger approaching her, which is the primary concern. That way he can be aware and vigilant, but also by his response you can hopefully derive a little bit about the situation, like if he seems reasonably concerned or if he dismisses you and says it's none of your business. Hopefully it is the former, in any case I'm glad you took notice and are considering taking action.
posted by ariadne_88 at 2:16 PM on January 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
I think talking to her dad is your best bet. Tell him about the stranger approaching her, which is the primary concern. That way he can be aware and vigilant, but also by his response you can hopefully derive a little bit about the situation, like if he seems reasonably concerned or if he dismisses you and says it's none of your business. Hopefully it is the former, in any case I'm glad you took notice and are considering taking action.
posted by ariadne_88 at 2:16 PM on January 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
Aaaand...I just read that you spoke to him and he reacted that way, which isn't at all surprising. Ignore the "none of your business" crowd, if you feel uncomfortable, do what your conscience tells you to. Maybe call first and ask for advice hypothetically, it doesn't have to be CPS if that feels excessive.
posted by ariadne_88 at 2:19 PM on January 28, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by ariadne_88 at 2:19 PM on January 28, 2016 [11 favorites]
For all you know she wants to work there & is getting pocket money for doing so. My niece worked in her mothers petstore from the ate of 10 until 14 then stopped because of other family issues. If it concerns you talk to Petco I doubt their various insurances would cover her and as they don't franchise the buck would stop with head office. I think CPS being called in because a kid is doing some work might be a tad extreme to be the starting move.
posted by wwax at 2:22 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by wwax at 2:22 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yes, I am uncomfortable about it. No, perhaps it is none of my business. This is why I turned to the hive mind for opinions.
You know, we do not live in a perfect world. Try to gauge whether you think reporting is the least worst option or if not reporting is the least worst option.
I spent some years just trying to be supportive of a couple of welfare moms I knew -- giving them hand-me-down clothes and trying to not by judgy and trying to help them parent as best they could under crappy circumstances. Having kids removed from the home doesn't necessarily fix anything. Sometimes foster parents are abusive. Sometimes adoptive parents are abusive. If you think you can be kind, caring and supportive and shore up her dad's ability to properly support and care for her, that would be fantastic. Though he may not be approachable and you may just not have the right kind of relationship for that. Sometimes people are incredibly hard to help.
Sometimes there are no good answers. You need to come up with an answer to this that helps you sleep nights, even if the entire rest of the world tells you that you did the wrong thing. If everyone says you were wrong to report/not report/whatever you are considering doing, will you feel they are wrong and "at least I can sleep nights"? Whatever answer you come up with, try to use that standard.
posted by Michele in California at 2:23 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
You know, we do not live in a perfect world. Try to gauge whether you think reporting is the least worst option or if not reporting is the least worst option.
I spent some years just trying to be supportive of a couple of welfare moms I knew -- giving them hand-me-down clothes and trying to not by judgy and trying to help them parent as best they could under crappy circumstances. Having kids removed from the home doesn't necessarily fix anything. Sometimes foster parents are abusive. Sometimes adoptive parents are abusive. If you think you can be kind, caring and supportive and shore up her dad's ability to properly support and care for her, that would be fantastic. Though he may not be approachable and you may just not have the right kind of relationship for that. Sometimes people are incredibly hard to help.
Sometimes there are no good answers. You need to come up with an answer to this that helps you sleep nights, even if the entire rest of the world tells you that you did the wrong thing. If everyone says you were wrong to report/not report/whatever you are considering doing, will you feel they are wrong and "at least I can sleep nights"? Whatever answer you come up with, try to use that standard.
posted by Michele in California at 2:23 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Calling CPS over an 11/12-year-old working at a store her dad manages???? It's great that people never had to work before the age of 15, I guess, but if somebody called child services when I was working at my parents' stores, I would have been flabbergasted. The guy trying to coax her out to the car should be reported to everyone possible, absolutely. But adolescents will not die if they sweep floors or clean out cages. I'd consider calling Petco, because of liability etc., but I'm so confused by the response to this.
posted by thetortoise at 2:27 PM on January 28, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by thetortoise at 2:27 PM on January 28, 2016 [15 favorites]
Have to agree with the tortoise on this one - regarding the guy with the car - any child could be under this risk while playing out, walking home from friends/school.
CPS - that would be an absolutely last resort IMO.
posted by Flowerpower at 2:31 PM on January 28, 2016
CPS - that would be an absolutely last resort IMO.
posted by Flowerpower at 2:31 PM on January 28, 2016
I guess one thing that occurs to me is that shitty parenting isn't illegal. It is illegal for her to be working there, of course, but it seems like if she's not being harmed more by doing this work than by any other realistic alternative, then the law might not be the best metric.
My personal opinion is that school and chores are kids' jobs, and that they should have most of their non-homework non-chore free time actually free, so I would frown on this kind of thing unless the kid got some kind of charge out of it. (Working with animals, feeling grown up, etc.) I also frown on teaching the kid that it's okay to work for free - just consider how destructive the internship economy and spec work are.
So if this guy really is a touchy, aggro jerk in his family life and not someone you just caught at a bad moment, and if the kid really is losing out on free time so that she can do unpaid labor to make her dad's store look better to Petco, yes, I think that's shitty parenting, and he's a bad guy and should feel bad. But even so, I feel like this is much more in line with terrible parenting that generally isn't dealt with by the law - we don't usually say that parents who, for instance, encourage their kids to be snobs or bully others should be dealt with by CPS; we don't say that parents whose kids are allowed to watch really violent movies regularly when they are quite small should be dealt with by CPS; we don't say that kids whose parents don't let them participate in very normal, accessible childhood activities and friendships for - for instance - conservative religious reasons should be dealt with by CPS.
Basically, I find myself wondering if this just isn't a situation where yes, it's probably awful, but no, it's not something where aggressive measures are really supported.
posted by Frowner at 2:33 PM on January 28, 2016 [12 favorites]
My personal opinion is that school and chores are kids' jobs, and that they should have most of their non-homework non-chore free time actually free, so I would frown on this kind of thing unless the kid got some kind of charge out of it. (Working with animals, feeling grown up, etc.) I also frown on teaching the kid that it's okay to work for free - just consider how destructive the internship economy and spec work are.
So if this guy really is a touchy, aggro jerk in his family life and not someone you just caught at a bad moment, and if the kid really is losing out on free time so that she can do unpaid labor to make her dad's store look better to Petco, yes, I think that's shitty parenting, and he's a bad guy and should feel bad. But even so, I feel like this is much more in line with terrible parenting that generally isn't dealt with by the law - we don't usually say that parents who, for instance, encourage their kids to be snobs or bully others should be dealt with by CPS; we don't say that parents whose kids are allowed to watch really violent movies regularly when they are quite small should be dealt with by CPS; we don't say that kids whose parents don't let them participate in very normal, accessible childhood activities and friendships for - for instance - conservative religious reasons should be dealt with by CPS.
Basically, I find myself wondering if this just isn't a situation where yes, it's probably awful, but no, it's not something where aggressive measures are really supported.
posted by Frowner at 2:33 PM on January 28, 2016 [12 favorites]
CPS responds to allegations of child abuse, not just bad parenting. It's clearly not physical or emotional abuse. Is it neglect? Is there a failure to feed, clothe and shelter the child? Is the child being subjected to abusive circumstances? Not really. If your local CPS is not too woefully understaffed, they might send someone out to ask questions. If something illegal is going on, they will say so and notify the police. If the family needs (and is willing to take) a referral to community resources, they can do that (and are very, very happy to do so). Other than that, there isn't much likely to happen directly. Indirectly the father might be shamed into changing or shamed into anger. The company might find out and do something, especially if there is a violation of company policy (and they find out) Maybe. If CPS is short-handed, this will be a low priority that will fall to the bottom of the list and nothing at all will happen.
If the real issue is a violation of child labor laws, call the people whose job it is to worry about labor law - usually your state Labor Department.
posted by metahawk at 2:39 PM on January 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
If the real issue is a violation of child labor laws, call the people whose job it is to worry about labor law - usually your state Labor Department.
posted by metahawk at 2:39 PM on January 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
So since this thread is so neatly divided, here is what I would do in this situation:
1. chat to the kid in order to find out whether she actually likes doing this (which is entirely possible, including scrubbing aquariums!!), or is just coming along cuz dad makes her. Depending on her response...
1b. potentially chat to other employees as well, carefully voicing concern, to find out more details and then
2. talk to the father (if I was scared of him, take big male friend) and tell him either:
- your daughter shouldn't be here, she's bored, why not just leave her at her mother's if this is the best you can do; or
- you should really pay your daughter some pocket money for her time (even if she enjoys it)
and, depending on his reaction, mention that you doubt what he's doing is legal and that he could get in trouble with PetCo. And tell him not to be an arse. I mean, if you don't want to go back anyway, why not tell him not to be an arse? (Of course, that's just me.)
posted by ClarissaWAM at 2:47 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
1. chat to the kid in order to find out whether she actually likes doing this (which is entirely possible, including scrubbing aquariums!!), or is just coming along cuz dad makes her. Depending on her response...
1b. potentially chat to other employees as well, carefully voicing concern, to find out more details and then
2. talk to the father (if I was scared of him, take big male friend) and tell him either:
- your daughter shouldn't be here, she's bored, why not just leave her at her mother's if this is the best you can do; or
- you should really pay your daughter some pocket money for her time (even if she enjoys it)
and, depending on his reaction, mention that you doubt what he's doing is legal and that he could get in trouble with PetCo. And tell him not to be an arse. I mean, if you don't want to go back anyway, why not tell him not to be an arse? (Of course, that's just me.)
posted by ClarissaWAM at 2:47 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Maybe have a discreet chat with some of the other employees at the store. They may be able to give some background on the situation. It seems like there really isn't enough solid information here to base a course of action on.
posted by LaBellaStella at 2:48 PM on January 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by LaBellaStella at 2:48 PM on January 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
I want to modify my probably-too-strong response: as others suggest, chatting with the dad (and other employees) and putting pressure on him to treat her more like a kid isn't unreasonable. Just please don't involve CPS; this really isn't worth having your parents monitored, let alone ending up in the foster system.
posted by thetortoise at 2:57 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by thetortoise at 2:57 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
I don't think it matters if the customer was a regular or really did want help with something from the car. If the guy was totally harmless the point remains that the girl should not have left the store with a stranger (and even a regular customer is a stranger, I'm sure every serial killer and pedophile on the planet is a regular customer somewhere).
So yeah, that's worrisome and it's strange and disturbing that the dad wasn't bothered by that. I wonder if he read it more as a judgement of him (hey, your kid almost left because nobody was watching her) rather than as somebody essentially "snitching" on his kid (hey, your kid almost did something awful, which I'm sure that you as a concerned parent would want to know about.)
But still, this is, at worst, bad parenting. It's not abuse. It's not neglect. And even if the outcome would be being with her mom, not foster care, I'm not sure "No more weekends with dad" is somehow better than cleaning aquariums.
In terms of child labour, it seems unlikely to me that this is "labour" in the sense that her father or Petco are somehow benefiting from this. I mean do you think they're bringing in fewer employees than they otherwise would? I think this is either her finding things to do to keep busy and feel grown up or somebody finding things for her to do to keep her busy and help her feel appreciated. (I know from discussions of unpaid internships that "does the employer benefit" is a key criterion for determining if something is labour that should be paid, not sure if the same definition is used for child labour).
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 2:58 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
So yeah, that's worrisome and it's strange and disturbing that the dad wasn't bothered by that. I wonder if he read it more as a judgement of him (hey, your kid almost left because nobody was watching her) rather than as somebody essentially "snitching" on his kid (hey, your kid almost did something awful, which I'm sure that you as a concerned parent would want to know about.)
But still, this is, at worst, bad parenting. It's not abuse. It's not neglect. And even if the outcome would be being with her mom, not foster care, I'm not sure "No more weekends with dad" is somehow better than cleaning aquariums.
In terms of child labour, it seems unlikely to me that this is "labour" in the sense that her father or Petco are somehow benefiting from this. I mean do you think they're bringing in fewer employees than they otherwise would? I think this is either her finding things to do to keep busy and feel grown up or somebody finding things for her to do to keep her busy and help her feel appreciated. (I know from discussions of unpaid internships that "does the employer benefit" is a key criterion for determining if something is labour that should be paid, not sure if the same definition is used for child labour).
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 2:58 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
I would've preferred to help out at the pet store at that age to sitting home alone in front of the TV. Vastly preferred.
Tell dad about 'sketchy' stranger - although his interpretation of the situation may be different from yours and there's not much you can do about that.
posted by The Toad at 3:08 PM on January 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
Tell dad about 'sketchy' stranger - although his interpretation of the situation may be different from yours and there's not much you can do about that.
posted by The Toad at 3:08 PM on January 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
Most pedophiles victimize someone they know well and have carefully groomed. They are typically in some position of trust. It is the rare instance that they go into a store and lure a child outside, kidnap them and so on. Those scenarios are the minority. You generally need to worry much more about the babysitter, tutor you hired and other folks who intentionally position themselves to be in trusted positions with regular access to kids.
So I kind of think the "OMG! She might have left the store with a sketchy stranger!" thing is a derail.
posted by Michele in California at 3:10 PM on January 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
So I kind of think the "OMG! She might have left the store with a sketchy stranger!" thing is a derail.
posted by Michele in California at 3:10 PM on January 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
I feel like the customer wanting the 12 year old's help is the real issue, and such a questionable incident should be reported to the police.
The police may already have this "customer" on their radar. If they don't, they should.
The stupid dad should be taking this incident more seriously. His 12 year old minor child should not be in a position where she is interacting with the adult public in a professional capacity, as though she has had professional training or enough life experience to exercise adult professional judgement.
Call Petco HQ and find out who the district manager is for that store. Write a very brief letter detailing the incident. Provide a date and time so they can grab the camera footage. Tell them you want the incident reported to the police, just in case this person is known to them. Ask for the District Manager to contact you directly to follow up. Also, pop into your local precinct and ask their advice. See if they want a screen cap with the "customer's face visible for their records.
No sane adult human asks a 12 year old with help in this context when there are adults in uniform and on the clock nearby. Somebody with questionable motives does try to lure a 12 year old outside. If I need muscles, I get a cart and ask an adult who works at Petco for help. I don't ask someone's 12 year kid.
Whatever happens after that is out of your control. I also don't care that she's in the store, I care that she is unsupervised and unprotected (basically alone) interacting with the public in a quasi-professional role. That's bananas.
Via the police or Petco taking it seriously, the dad will get the picture that putting his minor child in harm's way like this is not safe or likely, permitted.
posted by jbenben at 3:12 PM on January 28, 2016 [16 favorites]
The police may already have this "customer" on their radar. If they don't, they should.
The stupid dad should be taking this incident more seriously. His 12 year old minor child should not be in a position where she is interacting with the adult public in a professional capacity, as though she has had professional training or enough life experience to exercise adult professional judgement.
Call Petco HQ and find out who the district manager is for that store. Write a very brief letter detailing the incident. Provide a date and time so they can grab the camera footage. Tell them you want the incident reported to the police, just in case this person is known to them. Ask for the District Manager to contact you directly to follow up. Also, pop into your local precinct and ask their advice. See if they want a screen cap with the "customer's face visible for their records.
No sane adult human asks a 12 year old with help in this context when there are adults in uniform and on the clock nearby. Somebody with questionable motives does try to lure a 12 year old outside. If I need muscles, I get a cart and ask an adult who works at Petco for help. I don't ask someone's 12 year kid.
Whatever happens after that is out of your control. I also don't care that she's in the store, I care that she is unsupervised and unprotected (basically alone) interacting with the public in a quasi-professional role. That's bananas.
Via the police or Petco taking it seriously, the dad will get the picture that putting his minor child in harm's way like this is not safe or likely, permitted.
posted by jbenben at 3:12 PM on January 28, 2016 [16 favorites]
Since all of the customers know this young girl's name, know she will be there relatively unsupervised on the weekends, a customer luring her outside is certainly a concern. She's working around the store unsupervised, plenty of opportunity for a friendly person with bad intentions to groom her.
posted by jbenben at 3:15 PM on January 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by jbenben at 3:15 PM on January 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
10 Ways We Get the Odds Wrong: "We Fear Spectacular, Unlikely Events"
If you think the child is really being harmed here and you feel you need to do something, that's fine. Just be aware that humans are incredibly bad about catastrophizing and focusing on something unlikely that sounds incredibly, extremely bad to us.
Stating that the stranger incident is probably the least of your worries is not stating that the child doesn't have a real problem. It is just stating that you are probably giving too much weight to that specific thing. The real problems are much more likely to come from things like: Being bitten by one of the animals there, being exposed to exotic germs, not being fed properly for hours at a time because of the situation and any number of other things that, cumulatively, over time, are guaranteed to be an issue if she keeps doing this but which alone seem relatively inconsequential.
Everyone fears pedophiles. The standard solution proposed is "Don't talk to strangers." The vast majority of the time, it does absolutely nothing to protect a child because most pedophiles will be a relative, a friend of the family, a teacher, the babysitter and any number of other people who have gone to some trouble to make sure they are on the short list of trusted people the parents are willing to leave their child alone with.
"Don't talk to strangers" is mostly useless advice for protecting kids from pedophiles. It is advice we are comfortable giving because most people don't want to think about the real threats coming from people we think we adequately vetted.
posted by Michele in California at 3:28 PM on January 28, 2016 [13 favorites]
If you think the child is really being harmed here and you feel you need to do something, that's fine. Just be aware that humans are incredibly bad about catastrophizing and focusing on something unlikely that sounds incredibly, extremely bad to us.
Stating that the stranger incident is probably the least of your worries is not stating that the child doesn't have a real problem. It is just stating that you are probably giving too much weight to that specific thing. The real problems are much more likely to come from things like: Being bitten by one of the animals there, being exposed to exotic germs, not being fed properly for hours at a time because of the situation and any number of other things that, cumulatively, over time, are guaranteed to be an issue if she keeps doing this but which alone seem relatively inconsequential.
Everyone fears pedophiles. The standard solution proposed is "Don't talk to strangers." The vast majority of the time, it does absolutely nothing to protect a child because most pedophiles will be a relative, a friend of the family, a teacher, the babysitter and any number of other people who have gone to some trouble to make sure they are on the short list of trusted people the parents are willing to leave their child alone with.
"Don't talk to strangers" is mostly useless advice for protecting kids from pedophiles. It is advice we are comfortable giving because most people don't want to think about the real threats coming from people we think we adequately vetted.
posted by Michele in California at 3:28 PM on January 28, 2016 [13 favorites]
It sounds like one of your main concerns is that she's working without being paid. But plenty of kids have to do work at home without being paid. It would be perfectly legal for her dad to make her spend her Saturdays doing housework or yard work or babysitting younger siblings without pay and I highly doubt you would ever consider intervening in a situation like that. It would also be perfectly legal for her dad to make her stay home alone (even if she didn't like it) or to let her spend the whole weekend watching age-inappropriate TV nonstop and eating junk food. I don't see this as worse than any of those possibilities, so I don't think you should consider taking any more action than you would if those things were happening.
posted by Redstart at 3:42 PM on January 28, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Redstart at 3:42 PM on January 28, 2016 [7 favorites]
In my opinion, a call to the relevant labor law enforcement agency (might be the Texas Workforce Commission in TX, not sure if there's a more applicable city or county agency) regarding a potential violation of child labor and/or minimum wage laws would be the most appropriate, not CPS. Secondary to that, you can try to contact Petco corporate to see what their company policy is with regards to barely supervised 11/12-year-olds working for no pay in their stores.
An anecdote: The father of one of my friends was a long-time inspector for the Washington state Dept. of Labor & Industries (L&I). When my friend was younger, she dreaded going out to eat at restaurants with her dad because he apparently couldn't turn off his L&I enforcement mindset and would write up (citations? warnings? not sure) restaurants for violations like having owners' 12-year-old children bussing tables or what not.
posted by mhum at 3:49 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
An anecdote: The father of one of my friends was a long-time inspector for the Washington state Dept. of Labor & Industries (L&I). When my friend was younger, she dreaded going out to eat at restaurants with her dad because he apparently couldn't turn off his L&I enforcement mindset and would write up (citations? warnings? not sure) restaurants for violations like having owners' 12-year-old children bussing tables or what not.
posted by mhum at 3:49 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
I would call CPS. I have a friend who works as a GAL, and this is precisely what their expert, professional judgment is for. If they don't think it's an issue, they will let you know.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:53 PM on January 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:53 PM on January 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
If you get a chance to talk to the girl, please find out if she has enough time to do her homework and other school-related stuff, and maybe if she's able to get enough sleep.
posted by amtho at 3:55 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by amtho at 3:55 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
One thing worth adding. From what I understand from our veterinarian, teenagers are allowed or are used to work at Petco stores when they have vetinary interests. It was specifically mentioned for teens under the age of 16, 16 you can start volunteering in an actual veterinary clinic..
posted by corb at 3:56 PM on January 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by corb at 3:56 PM on January 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
I know you already clarified you aren't calling child protective services, however I would like to Nth the request not to make that call. CPS workers as generous as scantee have not been my experience nor what I have heard from others. His aggressive response also indicates he's not likely to be the best at kissing-up to them. I would expect the father to lose his visitation rights if that call is made. People have their own opinions on whether it is better for her to visit her father and work all weekend or to not visit him at all, and unfortunately we have the prerogative to enforce those opinions on others.
You also have the ability to get the father fired from Petco.
Perhaps in the longest term, what you can do is volunteer or donate to a charity that works to expand childcare access, to reduce economic inequality, or to provide weekend activities or safety training to children.
posted by Sonya Hendren at 3:57 PM on January 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
You also have the ability to get the father fired from Petco.
Perhaps in the longest term, what you can do is volunteer or donate to a charity that works to expand childcare access, to reduce economic inequality, or to provide weekend activities or safety training to children.
posted by Sonya Hendren at 3:57 PM on January 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
And yeah, if you aren't going to call CPS, call the police. None of the situation is okay.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:59 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:59 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
"Not calling CPS" includes not calling the police. A criminal record is not going to improve their lives.
Also, 'if i only had a penguin' thank you for putting that so well.
posted by Sonya Hendren at 4:04 PM on January 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
Also, 'if i only had a penguin' thank you for putting that so well.
posted by Sonya Hendren at 4:04 PM on January 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
You did the right thing to talk to the dad about the man who tried to lure her out, but please drop it now. You're not going to make this girl's life better by making trouble for her dad at his work. My guess is that either he's the manager and wants to keep his kid busy, or that he's an employee who gets away with bringing his daughter into work with him by having her contribute. Maybe he thinks she's better off cheerfully working and interacting with the public than sitting at home alone watching TV. If so, he's probably right. It doesn't sound to me like there's anything here you ought to be interfering with (although I'm sorry to hear he wasn't more decent about you telling him about someone trying to lure his girl outside.)
posted by fingersandtoes at 4:20 PM on January 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by fingersandtoes at 4:20 PM on January 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
Best answer: She's not really in danger. I worked when my dad took me to his office. It sucked a bit, but overall it was good for me. Her almost leaving with a customer...she's not a smart 12, but you were there, nothing bad happened.
I'm pretty sure Petco would throw 7 kinds of fits if THEY knew about it, and if the guy is a real jerk, I'm surprised one of the employees hasn't dropped a dime on him yet. (Because that would be MY M.O. if I were working for a jerk.) So there must be something about the situation that's not chapping the asses of the other folks there. Even if it is not having to clean the iguana cage.
I was a mandated reporter, and frankly as much as this situation angers me, it wouldn't register on my radar as a dangerous situation per se.
I am uncomfortable about insurance and liability for Petco though.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 4:29 PM on January 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
I'm pretty sure Petco would throw 7 kinds of fits if THEY knew about it, and if the guy is a real jerk, I'm surprised one of the employees hasn't dropped a dime on him yet. (Because that would be MY M.O. if I were working for a jerk.) So there must be something about the situation that's not chapping the asses of the other folks there. Even if it is not having to clean the iguana cage.
I was a mandated reporter, and frankly as much as this situation angers me, it wouldn't register on my radar as a dangerous situation per se.
I am uncomfortable about insurance and liability for Petco though.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 4:29 PM on January 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
Isn't Petco an international chain? You could maybe reach out to them to let them know. You would think that they would tell him he can't do that anymore. Worst case scenario is that he would be fired. If he is a franchise owner or manager, it sounds to me like he could be making his kid work so it's one less employee to pay. Or, maybe he's a single dad and that's how he is able to watch her.
I do think perhaps you're slightly over-invested in this. If there is no evidence that she is being mistreated, I'd probably let it go. It's good that you told her not to help that guy, and hopefully she will realize she shouldn't offer to do that.
posted by AppleTurnover at 4:31 PM on January 28, 2016
I do think perhaps you're slightly over-invested in this. If there is no evidence that she is being mistreated, I'd probably let it go. It's good that you told her not to help that guy, and hopefully she will realize she shouldn't offer to do that.
posted by AppleTurnover at 4:31 PM on January 28, 2016
I am uncomfortable about insurance and liability for Petco though.
Right, and I would be concerned about the animals themselves, too. I would urge OP to report this.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:32 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Right, and I would be concerned about the animals themselves, too. I would urge OP to report this.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:32 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Another vote for minding your own business. Full stop.
posted by Barry B. Palindromer at 4:35 PM on January 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Barry B. Palindromer at 4:35 PM on January 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
I am thinking that a child whose father is suddenly fired, perhaps for cause, is worse off than a child who is working at Petco. Poverty is pretty bad for kids, and this is a crummy economy. Honestly, I'd rather call CPS than Petco, if I were going to call someone. Potentially taking away someone's livelihood is one of the worst things you can do to them, the nuclear option, and really should not be something you do as a casual passer-by.
posted by Frowner at 4:40 PM on January 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Frowner at 4:40 PM on January 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks Ruthless. If it wouldn't trigger a mandatory reporter, then I leave it to the ethics and morals of those involved. I mean I probably won't shop there, because I find it ethically problematic on a number of levels, but the overall consensus seems to be that I'm overreacting.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 4:55 PM on January 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 4:55 PM on January 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
Other than her leaving with a sketchy guy, this sounds like my childhood. I "worked" in my mom's shop an ungodly number of hours each weekend and after school because there wasn't a better place for me to be. I also did a ton of manual labor, partially out of responsibility and partially out of boredom. It taught me a lot about how hard my mom worked and how to run a business. It would have been absolutely devestating to my family if anyone tried to end the arrangement.
posted by dumbasamuppet at 5:03 PM on January 28, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by dumbasamuppet at 5:03 PM on January 28, 2016 [7 favorites]
fwiw, I don't think that you are overreacting. An employee may not have busted him because they might be afraid of losing their job. Or they aren't convinced that they could report him and maintain anonymity. And he is saving the company money by her doing unpaid labor which is wrong wrong wrong. Are you sure she isn't getting paid?
She is also a liability if something goes wrong. Also, multiple shifts in one day is all kinds of no good too. I'd report him.
posted by futz at 5:12 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
She is also a liability if something goes wrong. Also, multiple shifts in one day is all kinds of no good too. I'd report him.
posted by futz at 5:12 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
I spent my childhood cleaning out cages, and a whole lot of more questionable things such as filling prescriptions, holding down unruly animals, cleaning up after surgeries, and so forth. Also unpaid, of course, with no harm done. 12-year-olds are capable of hanging out in stores alone, and working in a store is not any more inherently dangerous. I think you need to mentally divorce the "working at Petco" aspect from the "sketchy guy" part because wandering off with a sketchy guy is something that could happen to her anytime, anywhere-- especially if she's banned from the store and left entirely unsupervised. She hopefully learned a lesson the day you intervened, and you can consider your ethical job done.
posted by acidic at 5:13 PM on January 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by acidic at 5:13 PM on January 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
I don't remotely think you're overreacting. I think you were listening to your gut and paying attention to a kid who seemed like she was in a not-great situation. I didn't know what the best thing was when I read your question, and it sounds like the consensus is not to get involved, which makes sense...but that doesn't mean that you weren't right to pay attention, talk to the girl, give her dad a heads up, and ask for advice. More people should be like you, and just because you decided not to get further involved this time, I hope you do the same thing if you're ever in a similar situation again.
posted by pretentious illiterate at 5:33 PM on January 28, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by pretentious illiterate at 5:33 PM on January 28, 2016 [15 favorites]
- Twelve isn't a "little girl" by any means - heck, I'd assumed you were going to describe her as 5 or 6, max. That's middle school age!
- If she's happy and cheerful and friendly and chatty, I'd say she's just fine. You don't think she should be working without pay - but what if she WANTS to volunteer her time and enjoys it? It's going to look great on her resume against all the twits whose major accomplishments are taking selfies and using SnapChat.
- We only have your assumption that the person asking her for help was a "stranger". Maybe it's a regular customer, or someone she knows through her school or parents or friends or, y'know, anywhere. You didn't describe the actual conversation, or asking her about him, just verbally accosting the dad who may or may not have known who you were talking about. He may have thought YOU were the sketchy one.
- Concern about the animals safety? and cleaning cages? Seriously, a 9-year-old 4th grader is old enough to show and care for livestock that includes beef and dairy cattle and horses, AND clean their enclosures. A kindergartner is capable of cleaning a hamster or guinea pig cage. Heck, at twelve, I had care of half a dozen sheep, a calf, and a dozen or so rabbits. And I was perfectly capable of riding my bike the mile to my best friend's house and caring for THEIR stock and pets when they were gone, which included two horses, some dairy cattle, chickens, geese, dogs, cats, and the most aggravating pair of market hogs I've ever seen in my life.
posted by stormyteal at 6:36 PM on January 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
- If she's happy and cheerful and friendly and chatty, I'd say she's just fine. You don't think she should be working without pay - but what if she WANTS to volunteer her time and enjoys it? It's going to look great on her resume against all the twits whose major accomplishments are taking selfies and using SnapChat.
- We only have your assumption that the person asking her for help was a "stranger". Maybe it's a regular customer, or someone she knows through her school or parents or friends or, y'know, anywhere. You didn't describe the actual conversation, or asking her about him, just verbally accosting the dad who may or may not have known who you were talking about. He may have thought YOU were the sketchy one.
- Concern about the animals safety? and cleaning cages? Seriously, a 9-year-old 4th grader is old enough to show and care for livestock that includes beef and dairy cattle and horses, AND clean their enclosures. A kindergartner is capable of cleaning a hamster or guinea pig cage. Heck, at twelve, I had care of half a dozen sheep, a calf, and a dozen or so rabbits. And I was perfectly capable of riding my bike the mile to my best friend's house and caring for THEIR stock and pets when they were gone, which included two horses, some dairy cattle, chickens, geese, dogs, cats, and the most aggravating pair of market hogs I've ever seen in my life.
posted by stormyteal at 6:36 PM on January 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
I used to work with my mom and dad when I was a kid, and I enjoyed it. I wouldn't get chapped about the labor aspects. And I think I would look at the total context of the parking lot scenario -- all the other employees know the kid, there may be video cameras everywhere, so is the kidnapping scenario likely -- before assuming that danger was likely. I mean, yes, trust your instincts but in the context of all information available.
posted by zippy at 6:37 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by zippy at 6:37 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm just worried that she's trying to be "grown up" and "helpful" when she tries to help sketchy guy get stuff from his car, away from the store and her father's supervision.
You took it to the dad who puffed up because something almost bad happened on his watch. Let's hope the lesson sticks.
posted by jbenben at 7:11 PM on January 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
You took it to the dad who puffed up because something almost bad happened on his watch. Let's hope the lesson sticks.
posted by jbenben at 7:11 PM on January 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
Id like to emphasize that i think it could very well be illegal or at least result in worse cps crackdown to leave a 12 year old home alone esp for long hours.
Fwiw though, id report the labor issue to petco instad of cps.
posted by nakedmolerats at 7:26 PM on January 28, 2016
Fwiw though, id report the labor issue to petco instad of cps.
posted by nakedmolerats at 7:26 PM on January 28, 2016
For what it's worth, I basically was that kid, right down the place of business being a pet store. I was a year or two younger, it wasn't a Petco, and my parent wasn't even a manager, but otherwise it was identical.
I'd piddle around the store cleaning and sorting things and occasionally doing something genuinely useful. Every once in a while when the staff were off doing other things I would get to ring up customer's purchases. When I got bored, I'd go explore the alley out back or read a book in the back room. At the time, untangling and color-sorting the dog leash display was a fun game and a welcome break from sitting around for another eight hours with a book. I earned a lot less than minimum wage: candy money and an occasional free item from the inventory that caught my eye. But I wasn't replacing an actual employee, or really doing much actual work at all. And my family got paid far more than my labor was worth by not having to pay for child care, which would have cost as much as my parent's job paid.
On the whole, hanging around the store was rather fun. Not only did I get to pretend to be an adult, but I had the opportunity to interact with countless actual adults as a peer. (Well, as a service employee; but that's a lot closer than what children usually experience. And in some neighborhoods the customers actually do recognize service employees as peers.) It's hard to remember, but to an 11 year old just being out in the world among adults is a broadening experience. And that's a good thing, even if it comes with a small amount of danger.
If you'd asked me at the time, there were lots of other things I would have enjoyed more than hanging around the store. But, being babysat by a neighbor in a house full of screaming kids - which was the only other viable option - sure wasn't one of them. At the time, I wasn't quite ready to spend a whole day at home alone, and the alternatives were much worse. Besides, the pet store was way more fun than the other crappy weekend jobs, long appointments, and errands on which I'd accompany my parent and wind up waiting around without much to do. And my childhood was, on the whole, fantastic. It might have been even better if my parent didn't have to work service jobs on the weekend, but I wouldn't trade my childhood for that of anyone I've met.
After reading some of these answers, I'm incredibly grateful none of the customers tried to intervene. (It never would have occurred to us that was even a concern.) On a ranked list of all the crappy things that the kids of working class, single parents face, hanging out at the store on the weekend is buried somewhere down the third volume. It's just the way things are. And it's a million times better than having your parent get fired for letting you hang around the store.
Unless the kid has other visible indications of abuse or neglect or she's asking for help, there is no chance whatsoever that intervening will improve anyone's life. And there's a very real chance it will cause damage instead.
If you want to do something that might actually help, lobby your local government for subsidized childcare, supervised full-day enrichment programs for kids, and a living wage for service industry workers
posted by eotvos at 8:06 PM on January 28, 2016 [38 favorites]
I'd piddle around the store cleaning and sorting things and occasionally doing something genuinely useful. Every once in a while when the staff were off doing other things I would get to ring up customer's purchases. When I got bored, I'd go explore the alley out back or read a book in the back room. At the time, untangling and color-sorting the dog leash display was a fun game and a welcome break from sitting around for another eight hours with a book. I earned a lot less than minimum wage: candy money and an occasional free item from the inventory that caught my eye. But I wasn't replacing an actual employee, or really doing much actual work at all. And my family got paid far more than my labor was worth by not having to pay for child care, which would have cost as much as my parent's job paid.
On the whole, hanging around the store was rather fun. Not only did I get to pretend to be an adult, but I had the opportunity to interact with countless actual adults as a peer. (Well, as a service employee; but that's a lot closer than what children usually experience. And in some neighborhoods the customers actually do recognize service employees as peers.) It's hard to remember, but to an 11 year old just being out in the world among adults is a broadening experience. And that's a good thing, even if it comes with a small amount of danger.
If you'd asked me at the time, there were lots of other things I would have enjoyed more than hanging around the store. But, being babysat by a neighbor in a house full of screaming kids - which was the only other viable option - sure wasn't one of them. At the time, I wasn't quite ready to spend a whole day at home alone, and the alternatives were much worse. Besides, the pet store was way more fun than the other crappy weekend jobs, long appointments, and errands on which I'd accompany my parent and wind up waiting around without much to do. And my childhood was, on the whole, fantastic. It might have been even better if my parent didn't have to work service jobs on the weekend, but I wouldn't trade my childhood for that of anyone I've met.
After reading some of these answers, I'm incredibly grateful none of the customers tried to intervene. (It never would have occurred to us that was even a concern.) On a ranked list of all the crappy things that the kids of working class, single parents face, hanging out at the store on the weekend is buried somewhere down the third volume. It's just the way things are. And it's a million times better than having your parent get fired for letting you hang around the store.
Unless the kid has other visible indications of abuse or neglect or she's asking for help, there is no chance whatsoever that intervening will improve anyone's life. And there's a very real chance it will cause damage instead.
If you want to do something that might actually help, lobby your local government for subsidized childcare, supervised full-day enrichment programs for kids, and a living wage for service industry workers
posted by eotvos at 8:06 PM on January 28, 2016 [38 favorites]
eotvos has it. This kid is old enough to tell her mother if shit is really bad, and she's got dozens of other people in her life who are actually in her life and know her and know she's at Petco every other weekend. If you must do something, call Petco. If you do, don't wait for anyone to follow up with you. You might get a courtesy call but you're giving them info about their business, and their business is not your business. Similarly, if you return to the store two weeks after you contact Petco and she's still there that does not mean Petco did nothing.
Next: stop talking to the kid. I don't mean no more hellos and how are you, but don't ask her questions that are entirely not your business. Part of your concern is about a creepy adult talking to her. Don't be another creepy adult talking to her. Dad might tick your confrontation radar because you're in the store every other weekend chatting up his kid and now you're asking him about her. No matter what someone's motivations, that's kinda creepy.
posted by good lorneing at 8:21 PM on January 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
Next: stop talking to the kid. I don't mean no more hellos and how are you, but don't ask her questions that are entirely not your business. Part of your concern is about a creepy adult talking to her. Don't be another creepy adult talking to her. Dad might tick your confrontation radar because you're in the store every other weekend chatting up his kid and now you're asking him about her. No matter what someone's motivations, that's kinda creepy.
posted by good lorneing at 8:21 PM on January 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
multiple shifts at a time?
well let's face it, a lot of adults are negligent when it comes to kids. kids are just not that high a priority to them. you seem like you would make a great parent, OP. i think you're just mistaken that the rest of society has the same standards.
posted by kinoeye at 9:17 PM on January 28, 2016
well let's face it, a lot of adults are negligent when it comes to kids. kids are just not that high a priority to them. you seem like you would make a great parent, OP. i think you're just mistaken that the rest of society has the same standards.
posted by kinoeye at 9:17 PM on January 28, 2016
multiple shifts at a time
I wouldn't get hung up on this because it seems like the OP must be mistaken here. Multiple means at least 2 (I would take it to mean at least 3, but I think technically two could count). Petco isn't open two shifts in a row (at least the random texas locations I clicked aren't). So at most/worst she's there all day. And I don't think it's fair to imply someone is a bad parent for what may well be taking the best childcare option they have. If this is a failure, it's a failure of policy not the father specifically. The personal is political, after all.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:37 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
I wouldn't get hung up on this because it seems like the OP must be mistaken here. Multiple means at least 2 (I would take it to mean at least 3, but I think technically two could count). Petco isn't open two shifts in a row (at least the random texas locations I clicked aren't). So at most/worst she's there all day. And I don't think it's fair to imply someone is a bad parent for what may well be taking the best childcare option they have. If this is a failure, it's a failure of policy not the father specifically. The personal is political, after all.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:37 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Ok, just to clarify a few things; it's not like I'm seeking this kid out. She's just been there every other weekend for months. I don't try to talk to her, I don't try to talk to anyone. I don't like people. I'm just there for pet food and supplies. She runs up to me when she sees me and starts chattering.
Multiple shifts comes from her saying that they get there at dawn to unload the trucks, and she's there until evening when her dad either goes home or takes her back to her mom.
Again, I have not sought out this child. I have never sought interaction with this child. I was merely concerned by things which I have witnessed, or which have been relayed to me by the child. Why she chose me to talk to, I don't know. I have a solid mom vibe, and she seems to like my dog. To be fair, this happens to me a lot, kids gravitate to me, and tell me all sorts of things, even as I push them away with sticks. It's like cats and people who wear cat free clothes.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 9:50 PM on January 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
Multiple shifts comes from her saying that they get there at dawn to unload the trucks, and she's there until evening when her dad either goes home or takes her back to her mom.
Again, I have not sought out this child. I have never sought interaction with this child. I was merely concerned by things which I have witnessed, or which have been relayed to me by the child. Why she chose me to talk to, I don't know. I have a solid mom vibe, and she seems to like my dog. To be fair, this happens to me a lot, kids gravitate to me, and tell me all sorts of things, even as I push them away with sticks. It's like cats and people who wear cat free clothes.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 9:50 PM on January 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
When I was a kid and stayed with my grandma at times during the summer, I would sometimes to go work with her - she was waitress, and I'd mostly go off into an unused private room (they had a couple party rooms) and busy myself with coloring or daydreaming, but sometimes I'd help out in little ways if the opportunity came up. I loved doing it, customers thought I was adorable, and the whole thing was entirely wholesome for everyone involved. I'm not sure if my parents were aware or not but I never got the sense anything was amiss.
Could this be somewhat like that? I would have killed to clean tanks when I was 12, such was my love of animals, and would have been miserably upset if some nosy do-gooder (from that POV) ruined it for me by reporting it, AND got my dad in trouble at the same time. I know kids feelings aren't as important as safety, but aside from needing a reminder not to leave the store with anybody, are we really sure that this isn't the best possible scenario for her?
posted by gloriouslyincandescent at 9:56 PM on January 28, 2016
Could this be somewhat like that? I would have killed to clean tanks when I was 12, such was my love of animals, and would have been miserably upset if some nosy do-gooder (from that POV) ruined it for me by reporting it, AND got my dad in trouble at the same time. I know kids feelings aren't as important as safety, but aside from needing a reminder not to leave the store with anybody, are we really sure that this isn't the best possible scenario for her?
posted by gloriouslyincandescent at 9:56 PM on January 28, 2016
A 12-year old kid is being used to replace a full- or part-time employee, while going to school? Other people are too afraid to report it? Maybe she's being groomed by a pedophile? Maybe his boss said she could come in. People seem to be stretching for the worst possible scenarios here. I don't think there's nearly enough information in the question to suggest calling CPS or the cops.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:01 PM on January 28, 2016
posted by Room 641-A at 10:01 PM on January 28, 2016
If you are not looking for a confrontation, you could always phone Dad up and relate your concern about the stranger. Once her dad speaks to her about not going outside with strangers, it will probably solve that problem. Most kids at 12 would be able to understand and change their behaviour not to go outside with strangers, they wouldn't need the whole situation to change to prevent it. I also agree that she sounds happy enough, and not everybody has great childcare options. Also, a court mandated reporter here and it wouldn't be something I would kick start the process over.
posted by catspajammies at 11:15 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by catspajammies at 11:15 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Please realize that your expression of concern to the company might jeopardize the father's job, and his access to his daughter. While I appreciate that you are concerned, those of us who have had to parent while working in the service sector often have to bring our children to work. Sometimes they're in the back room doing homework, sometimes they get to come out front to help, depending upon the place of employment. Please do not make this your business.
posted by alltomorrowsparties at 11:31 PM on January 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by alltomorrowsparties at 11:31 PM on January 28, 2016 [6 favorites]
This weekend I stopped her from leaving with a sketchy customer who wanted her "help" getting something from his car.
I wonder what exactly was sketchy about the stranger, but I was biking all over town and hanging out in public parks with friends when I was under 10, and I began babysitting when I was 12, so... I'm not on board with the idea that going to the parking lot unsupervised was necessarily a huge deal. Was it the vibe of this particular stranger that set you off? Could it just be that a friendly girl might help out a regular she knew?
posted by salvia at 12:44 AM on January 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
I wonder what exactly was sketchy about the stranger, but I was biking all over town and hanging out in public parks with friends when I was under 10, and I began babysitting when I was 12, so... I'm not on board with the idea that going to the parking lot unsupervised was necessarily a huge deal. Was it the vibe of this particular stranger that set you off? Could it just be that a friendly girl might help out a regular she knew?
posted by salvia at 12:44 AM on January 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
This is absolutely none of your business. If you want to help abused kids, donate to a shelter.. If you are concerned about wage theft, volunteer for pro-labor local politicians. If you thought this kid's dad was rude to you, go to a different pet store.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:28 AM on January 29, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:28 AM on January 29, 2016 [4 favorites]
Was she getting something from his car (like a big cat-crate out of the trunk), or was he trying-to/asking-her to get into his car? If the latter, I hope you got the “sketchy customer”s license plate number? This would be the real disturbing thing.
The “working in her dad's store” seems pretty harmless to me (although I’m sure the legal department at PetCo would fire this guy in a minute if they knew, insurance wise). If you’re on friendly terms with her, maybe speak to her to let her know that she probably shouldn’t leave the store with a customer without another employee (or her father) being with her.
posted by blueberry at 2:13 AM on January 29, 2016
The “working in her dad's store” seems pretty harmless to me (although I’m sure the legal department at PetCo would fire this guy in a minute if they knew, insurance wise). If you’re on friendly terms with her, maybe speak to her to let her know that she probably shouldn’t leave the store with a customer without another employee (or her father) being with her.
posted by blueberry at 2:13 AM on January 29, 2016
I'm a mandated reporter and I just want to clarify that mandated reporters ONLY have special mandated reporter authority to report on children who we come into contact with on a regular basis.
Our special legal obligations (and subsequent protection) only applies for kids that we come into contact with on regularly through schools or groups or clubs.
Mandated reporters DO NOT have a legal obligation to report suspected abuse on kids with whom we don't have general contact.
But anyone can call Child Services and file anonymously, not that you should. I'm just saying that non-mandated reporters can and do call them.
If you feel like you need to do something proactive, call Petco to make them aware.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 3:12 AM on January 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
Our special legal obligations (and subsequent protection) only applies for kids that we come into contact with on regularly through schools or groups or clubs.
Mandated reporters DO NOT have a legal obligation to report suspected abuse on kids with whom we don't have general contact.
But anyone can call Child Services and file anonymously, not that you should. I'm just saying that non-mandated reporters can and do call them.
If you feel like you need to do something proactive, call Petco to make them aware.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 3:12 AM on January 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
I think there is so much about this situation that we can't know. Maybe mom doesn't want to child left alone. Maybe leaving the child alone would force a custody battle. Maybe the dad wants to spend time with his daughter on visitation weekends, but also needs to work to make ends meet. Maybe this is temporary. Maybe they live somewhere where the dad doesn't feel like it's safe to leave the daughter. Maybe they are homeless and need to leave the shelter for the day. Maybe they live in their car. I work with many children who live totally awful lives. Many of my elementary students are forced to care for younger siblings (thinking of one child who got a full scholarship to an academic summer camp but he needed to care for his newborn sibling so his mom could clean houses right after giving birth). Many, many children in the United States are put in awful situations, and we can all blame our messed up system that has cut jobs and supports for families to be middle class. And I personally would be aggro if my life was tough and I was doing the best I could, including having my daughter every other weekend, and spending time with her, and someone questioned my parenting, especially someone who I didn't know. Children want to be helpful, and though she might not be getting paid (who knows what she gets really), but her dad is making money to provide for her. I would not report this to anyone, and I would avoid shopping there if you feel like you can't bare it. I know you are trying to do the right thing, and your heart is in the right place, but it's a situation where you can't know all the reasons why it is the way it is.
posted by momochan at 6:10 AM on January 29, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by momochan at 6:10 AM on January 29, 2016 [10 favorites]
(OP, to be clear I think your question is good, I just disagree with some of the conclusions here.)
posted by Room 641-A at 6:27 AM on January 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Room 641-A at 6:27 AM on January 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
the only thing I can add here is that at least in my state, CPS has two "tracks" when there's a report. one is for actual abuse, and one is when they can see something's wrong but it's not to the level of abuse - and they try to get you in touch with the services you might need. That said, I don't know what services they could provide this dad. If I were you and this was still weighing on your mind, I'd write him a letter about the incident where the daughter started to go out to the car with a customer. Working long hours at the store isn't the worst thing for her, but she needs to be reminded of safety guidelines that clearly aren't automatic for her. Dad's the one to do it, and I think a calm, non-judgemental note might be the way to get through to him, even if he's an aggro jerk.
posted by lemniskate at 6:33 AM on January 29, 2016
posted by lemniskate at 6:33 AM on January 29, 2016
Huh. I don't think there's an obvious answer here. I'm not even sure it's illegal, since TX child labor law doesn't apply to kids "a. in a non-hazardous occupation; b. under the direct supervision of the child's parent or an adult having custody of the child; and c. in a business or enterprise owned or operated by the parent or custodian." and arguably the store might be "operated" by the dad, though it belongs to Petco (IANAL!). And minimum wage laws don't apply to kids working for parents, I believe. It seems a lot more likely that it violates Petco policies (minors under 15 are not considered for employment) though maybe there's some chance she's "volunteering" through a program of theirs, as someone mentioned above (even then, I'm sure working all day violates some policy). Someone suggested the father may not be able to afford child care while he's at work, and obviously there's no way to know, but a Petco manager makes ~$50k on average, so it seems more likely that he could. It doesn't seem like obvious child neglect, and it seems more likely to me that CPS would not do anything than do anything. Still, I think you're right to be concerned. It takes a village, right? I don't see this as the same as someone complaining about a kid playing by themselves at a park. Again, there's no obvious answer, because it's impossible to know what the alternative scenario is for her if she's not at the store. Personally, if I were the kid, I'd rather be at home, and even if it might not technically be neglect (I really don't know) you already happened to witness something potentially bad happening to her. I guess I might a) call the store anonymously and warn the dad that someone may tell Petco and b) call his manager if the kid's still there. But is it ethically wrong for you to choose to do nothing? I don't think so. The whole thing is a gray area.
posted by three_red_balloons at 6:54 AM on January 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by three_red_balloons at 6:54 AM on January 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
At 12 years old if I had been forced to work multiple weekend shifts on a regular basis without pay, I would have been seething inside, despite my generally bubbly exterior to strangers. I also would not have felt any control over changing the situation & would have loved having someone intervene on my behalf; for me there was enough other stuff that I moved out at 18 & currently have no relationship with my parents. But then, everyone is different & you'll probably never know what is in this girl's heart.
posted by Laura in Canada at 6:55 AM on January 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Laura in Canada at 6:55 AM on January 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
First of all, I know you said that this girl is coming up to you and chattering, but I want to say that you are a good person for recognizing that something out of the ordinary is happening here, and for thinking on it further. Because a lot of people in that scenario wouldn't really think twice about it. So good on you.
Now, as mentioned above, the girl is 12 but apparently is not very savvy. Perhaps the parents have tried different care options for her that haven't worked out. Perhaps she has some mild issues that mean they would rather have eyes on her during the day (setting aside for the moment the issue about the customer trying to get her out the door, but that's a different issue and a different Ask). Perhaps keeping her busy at the store really is their best solution for her, given whatever her individual personality or medical quirks may be.
I was left at home alone in the evenings starting from the age of 7 because my single mother had a second job. I can tell you for sure, being in a store doing some productive work and chattering with people would have been much more preferable than being home alone, staring at the tv and eating random crap in the house. Being alone that much isn't healthy for anyone, and certainly not a child. At least I was at home at night; who knows what this girl would get into if she's left unsupervised all day long. At best she'll be on the internet (and that's not a great option), at worst she could be out wandering around the neighborhood, which is also not safe for a 12 year old girl.
The district manager of the store is likely aware of the situation and is looking the other way, out of kindness to the child. If someone starts pushing the issue, the father could potentially lose his job, and that could be profoundly detrimental to everyone in the family.
I doubt that this is an ideal situation in the eyes of the father or the mother, but it's likely the best they can come up with for now and they are making the best of a bad situation. I think it's great that you tried to bring the sketchy customer to the attention of the father (and I'm not surprised that he reacted the way he did, he's probably on pins and needles himself about having her in the store, and he's probably worried about customers noticing that she's there enough that they would comment on her welfare. He's probably scared that someone will call CPS or corporate). For anything less than her physical safety, I really think you should MYOB. It's not a great situation but if there was a better solution they would probably already be employing it.
posted by vignettist at 8:25 AM on January 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
Now, as mentioned above, the girl is 12 but apparently is not very savvy. Perhaps the parents have tried different care options for her that haven't worked out. Perhaps she has some mild issues that mean they would rather have eyes on her during the day (setting aside for the moment the issue about the customer trying to get her out the door, but that's a different issue and a different Ask). Perhaps keeping her busy at the store really is their best solution for her, given whatever her individual personality or medical quirks may be.
I was left at home alone in the evenings starting from the age of 7 because my single mother had a second job. I can tell you for sure, being in a store doing some productive work and chattering with people would have been much more preferable than being home alone, staring at the tv and eating random crap in the house. Being alone that much isn't healthy for anyone, and certainly not a child. At least I was at home at night; who knows what this girl would get into if she's left unsupervised all day long. At best she'll be on the internet (and that's not a great option), at worst she could be out wandering around the neighborhood, which is also not safe for a 12 year old girl.
The district manager of the store is likely aware of the situation and is looking the other way, out of kindness to the child. If someone starts pushing the issue, the father could potentially lose his job, and that could be profoundly detrimental to everyone in the family.
I doubt that this is an ideal situation in the eyes of the father or the mother, but it's likely the best they can come up with for now and they are making the best of a bad situation. I think it's great that you tried to bring the sketchy customer to the attention of the father (and I'm not surprised that he reacted the way he did, he's probably on pins and needles himself about having her in the store, and he's probably worried about customers noticing that she's there enough that they would comment on her welfare. He's probably scared that someone will call CPS or corporate). For anything less than her physical safety, I really think you should MYOB. It's not a great situation but if there was a better solution they would probably already be employing it.
posted by vignettist at 8:25 AM on January 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
Multiple shifts comes from her saying that they get there at dawn to unload the trucks, and she's there until evening when her dad either goes home or takes her back to her mom.
Yeah, the mom. Is there any reason to think the mother can't judge this situation herself? And if she did have concerns but is afraid to tell her ex then it's probably not helpful to initiate a string of events that the ex could blame on the mother.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:14 AM on January 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah, the mom. Is there any reason to think the mother can't judge this situation herself? And if she did have concerns but is afraid to tell her ex then it's probably not helpful to initiate a string of events that the ex could blame on the mother.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:14 AM on January 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Why don't you call the mom? If the kid is so chatty you should be able to get her mom's phone number off her, then you can call and check if she knows whats happening, and it sounds like this is something that would be more likely to be handled as a custody change than anything else so the mom should be aware.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 9:52 AM on January 29, 2016
posted by the agents of KAOS at 9:52 AM on January 29, 2016
When I was that age, I volunteered at an animal shelter. I cleaned cages and walked dogs. It was my choice to volunteer and I was incredibly excited when I found out that the shelter let people that age volunteer. She might actually enjoy being at the store.
I'm really torn because the stranger story is scary. As someone else pointed out, it could happen anywhere. It's disturbing that the father reacted angrily when you told him though. The ideal would be that the father would have a discussion with the daughter about not leaving the store with an adult.
posted by parakeetdog at 12:47 PM on January 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm really torn because the stranger story is scary. As someone else pointed out, it could happen anywhere. It's disturbing that the father reacted angrily when you told him though. The ideal would be that the father would have a discussion with the daughter about not leaving the store with an adult.
posted by parakeetdog at 12:47 PM on January 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
the work part is none of your business. none. and exposure to cps or the police is pretty dangerous stuff too. and potentially getting him fired isn't going to help matters either.
but if the situation with the stranger wanting to take her outside really triggered your alarm bells, then you need to find a way to talk to her father. she needs a bit of street smarts, as mentioned above. yes, there is a some hysteria regarding pedophiles. but in my experience a shocking number of people have unfortunate incidents from when they were kids.
posted by lescour at 2:06 PM on January 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
but if the situation with the stranger wanting to take her outside really triggered your alarm bells, then you need to find a way to talk to her father. she needs a bit of street smarts, as mentioned above. yes, there is a some hysteria regarding pedophiles. but in my experience a shocking number of people have unfortunate incidents from when they were kids.
posted by lescour at 2:06 PM on January 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Multiple shifts comes from her saying that they get there at dawn to unload the trucks, and she's there until evening when her dad either goes home or takes her back to her mom.
This reads to me like they are a low-income family that doesn't have enough money to pay for extra labor or childcare. I know a lot of families like that, particularly immigrant families, and as a lawyer, I have also been very acquainted by how child services can really destroy poor families, even when there is absolutely no evidence of neglect. There does not seem to be any evidence of neglect in this case, so I would consider not bearing the power of the state down on what seems to be a poor family, simply because they might make you uncomfortable.
posted by johnasdf at 2:32 PM on January 29, 2016 [8 favorites]
This reads to me like they are a low-income family that doesn't have enough money to pay for extra labor or childcare. I know a lot of families like that, particularly immigrant families, and as a lawyer, I have also been very acquainted by how child services can really destroy poor families, even when there is absolutely no evidence of neglect. There does not seem to be any evidence of neglect in this case, so I would consider not bearing the power of the state down on what seems to be a poor family, simply because they might make you uncomfortable.
posted by johnasdf at 2:32 PM on January 29, 2016 [8 favorites]
If the kid is so chatty you should be able to get her mom's phone number off her
posted by the agents of KAOS at 9:52 AM on January 29 [+] [!]
OMG don't do this. It beats the hell out of all other behavior in this thread for unadulterated creepiness. If a stranger was trying to get the phone number of my 12 year old relative, I sure as fuck would be getting the police involved .
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 3:56 PM on January 29, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by the agents of KAOS at 9:52 AM on January 29 [+] [!]
OMG don't do this. It beats the hell out of all other behavior in this thread for unadulterated creepiness. If a stranger was trying to get the phone number of my 12 year old relative, I sure as fuck would be getting the police involved .
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 3:56 PM on January 29, 2016 [5 favorites]
Re: Child labour
The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) provides for certain exemptions. Minors under age 16 working in a business solely owned or operated by their parents or by persons standing in place of their parents, can work any time of day and for any number of hours.posted by Sys Rq at 4:39 PM on January 30, 2016 [2 favorites]
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